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Trump to Remove Himself from Businesses; Gatlinburg Wildfires Continue Raging; Stein Expected to Demand Michigan Recount. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired November 30, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:34:14] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello in Washington. Thank you so much for joining me this morning.

Donald Trump making an early morning promise to all Americans, he will eliminate any conflicts of interest due to his real estate empire. He's removing himself completely from his companies, at least that's what he said. He will pass them along to his children. Mr. Trump added that, quote, "legal documents are being crafted which take me completely out of business operations. The presidency is a far more important task."

So let's talk about that. I'm joined by former White House ethics lawyer Richard Painter.

Welcome, sir.

RICHARD PAINTER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ETHICS LAWYER: Well, thank you.

COSTELLO: Thanks for coming back.

You know, Trump also tweeted this. He said it was visually important as president to have no conflicts of interest. What do you think "visually important" means?

[09:35:02] PAINTER: Well, I don't know what he means by these tweets, but what's critically important is that he divest himself of ownership interest in the business, not just his role in the business operations. And if he does not divest himself of ownership interest in the businesses, we're going to have a whole range of problems. And one of them is foreign government money coming into those businesses, owned by the president, because foreign government money may not be paid to any United States government official in a situation where that could be construed as a gift to the government official. And that's a violation of the emoluments clause of the Constitution.

COSTELLO: So, Richard, let me interrupt you --

PAINTER: We also --

COSTELLO: Richard, let me interrupt you just to make it clear. So if he divests operations, that means he still owns the company, which means he still makes money from those companies, so that's why it's so important that he divest ownership of these companies?

PAINTER: Absolutely, because otherwise that foreign government money that's paid into the Trump Organization is going to be to his benefit, and that could be a constitutional violation on day one when he takes office. Also he has his name going up on buildings all over the world and is being paid by that. It doesn't matter who's running the operations. The question is, is he getting that money or is he not from putting his name on buildings all over the world? And that also, by the way, is a security issue, a global security issue. Who's going to protect those buildings and what's going to pay to protect those buildings that have the name of the president of the United States on them?

And, furthermore, if he owns this business operation, we're going to have to make very, very -- be very careful that nobody in the government is talking about Trump's business side by side with U.S. government business, and that nobody in the Trump organization is talking about United States government business when they are doing deals or someone's going to get accused of soliciting a bribe.

COSTELLO: OK, so is it -- is that really -- right, so is that possible if he turns ownership over to his children?

PAINTER: I think if he turns ownership over to his children, that would be a very, very good move in the right direction. The Office of Government Ethics has been tweeting this morning that they are happy that he will be divesting, or at least they may be assuming that he's going to be divesting. If he's going to be doing that, that would be a step in the right direction, absolutely. But if it's just turning the management of the business over to his children, while he retains ownership, we're going to have all of the same problems that we've been talking about for the past several weeks.

COSTELLO: But, still, even if it -- even if he goes, you know, even if he does the whole shlameal (ph), like you're talking about, it's still his family making money off of these businesses.

PAINTER: Yes.

COSTELLO: Let's say Jared Kushner goes to Washington and becomes Donald Trump's most trusted aide, right? He's married to Ivanka Trump, who would be owning the Trump businesses and running them. So how exactly would that work? Would they just promise not to talk to one another about the business?

PAINTER: Well, that would be a problem for any family member who actually joins the administration, because they would be subject to the financial conflict of interest rules. So if they own the businesses, and then they go into the administration, the criminal conflict of interest statute that does not apply to the president will apply, however, to everybody who's working for the president. So I think the Trump family members need to decide, do they want to run the businesses and own the businesses, or do they want to work for the government? If they're going to work for the government in whatever jobs he can appoint them to, and there's some question about that under the nepotism statute, but, if they're going to do that, they are going to have to be very, very careful not to have ownership or a management role of the business.

COSTELLO: OK, one last question -- one last question on that front because we know Ivanka Trump wants to institute her child care plan, right?

PAINTER: Yes.

COSTELLO: But if she now owns the Trump businesses, can she do that?

PAINTER: Well, I think that would be very problematic. We have an issue with respect to the nepotism statute as to what he can do anyway to appoint family members to various positions. He's going to have very limited options. Task force and some other options I think might be on the table. But if they're going to own those businesses, they would have to make absolutely sure that there's no financial conflict of interest if they assume those types of roles within the government. So I would be very worried about that. They really ought to be doing one or the other, the government business or the Trump business, and take their choice.

COSTELLO: Richard Painter, former White House ethics lawyer, thank you so much for being with us this morning.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a wildfire turns deadly after officials say it was a human being who started the fire that has nearly wiped out a Tennessee resort town.

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[09:43:53] COSTELLO: Raging wildfires have turned deadly in Tennessee. Three people killed as the flames raced through the eastern part of the state. And this morning, a sobering look at the charred remains of Gatlinburg. More than 250 buildings burned to the ground. The town's mayor says crews are racing to find anyone who may be trapped.

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MAYOR LARRY WATERS (R), SEVIER COUNTY, TENNESSEE: Search and rescue teams are out, going house by house. There's a few areas that we were unable to get to on Monday night because of the swift nature of the fire storm that we had. And we're finishing those up today. So right now search and rescue is our main challenge.

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COSTELLO: Jennifer Gray live in Gatlinburg with more.

Good morning.

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.

It is just a waiting game for the people here in this area. It's been about 36 hours since a lot of them have been able to -- since they left their homes and they still haven't heard word when they'll be able to return. And so excruciatingly painful for the people who are curious if their home is even there. [09:45:01] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is crazy.

GRAY (voice-over): Search and rescue efforts underway this morning in fire ravaged eastern Tennessee.

GOV. BILL HASLAM (R), TENNESSEE: This is the largest fire in the last 100 years of the state of Tennessee.

GRAY: Firefighters continuing to put out flames, and bracing for the possibility of spot fires after a terrifying 24 hours that left at least 250 homes and businesses destroyed, and forced more than 14,000 residents and tourists to flee to nearby shelters.

KIP MCLAUGHLIN, EVACUATED TOURIST: You just don't know what to do. I mean, you sit there and you're expecting to come on vacation and, again, find out that you can't get back to your family.

GRAY: Drivers capturing terrifying video as they scrambled to escape the fires Monday night. At least three people have died since the flames spread with little warning. Officials now say the fire is human caused.

Denise Bearden and her fiance, Mark Benzschawel, were asleep when the inferno reached their doorsteps. Police rescuing them just in time.

MARK BENZSCHAWEL, EVACUATED RESIDENT: Flames were just everywhere, on both sides of the road, crossing the road, embers flying everywhere. It was a nightmare.

GRAY: Like many others, they are unsure when they can return home or what they'll find.

DENISE BEARDEN, EVACUATED RESIDENT: That's the hard part. You just don't know if it's still going to be there or not. And we may go back to absolutely nothing. But we have each other. And that's all that matters. We made it out with our lives.

GRAY: Others praying their loved ones are safe. Michael Reed has not heard from his wife or two daughters since Monday night as they tried to escape.

MICHAEL REED, WIFE AND DAUGHTERS MISSING IN FIRES: I've called the other shelters here. They said she isn't there. Just hoping for a miracle.

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GRAY: And miracle is what a lot of people are hoping for, especially as they return back to their neighborhoods in the coming hours and even days, Carol. A little bit of hope, though. We have had quite a bit of rain during the overnight, and today, and so that should help firefighters quite a bit get those blazes under control so people can go back home.

Carol.

COSTELLO: Jennifer Gray reporting live this morning. Thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Jill Stein vows to fight on, but the election recounts aren't cheap. And if she wants to file in Michigan, well, she doesn't have much time to pony up.

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[09:51:44] COSTELLO: It is deadline day in Michigan. If former Green Party Candidate Jill Stein still wants a recount, she needs to file for a recount today in that state. The state official certifying election results just two days ago. Trump winning over Hillary Clinton by just a little more than 11,000 votes. Stein says she's ready to pony up the money to check to see if those results are accurate.

Joining me now, Ruth Johnson, Michigan's secretary of state.

Welcome.

RUTH JOHNSON, MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE: Thank you. It's great to be here.

COSTELLO: It's nice to have you here. So, how do you feel about being may be forced to recount the votes in your state?

JOHNSON: Well, in Michigan, we have a lot of laws in place and we're ready to do a recount. We have people that are quite capable. Actually, our clerks that conduct the elections in Michigan were named some of the best in the nation. We have a wonderful system that has a number of checks and balances built into it and one of it is, we did not have our tabulators hooked up to computers and we also have local clerks conduct, county clerks then have a canvas board that canvasses those election results, and then the state canvases them, too. So we have suspenders and the belt in Michigan to make sure that we have good elections.

COSTELLO: So is it -- is it frustrating that you may be forced to recount in spite of all those -- all of those safety -- safeguards built into the system?

JOHNSON: Well, what's unusual is somebody that only got 1 percent of the vote. It's the first time I've ever seen anything like this that would want a recount. The cost of the recount for somebody that would request it at this point would cost them, if it was state-wide, approximately $1 million. And if you use the Wisconsin model, it means that the Michigan taxpayers would pay about $4 million of the tab when everything is done.

COSTELLO: Well, wait a minute, I thought Jill Stein was going to pay the tab because she's getting -- she's getting contributions in to pay for the recount. So why would the taxpayers in Michigan have to absorb some of the cost?

JOHNSON: I think the law was set up in Michigan so that if somebody felt aggrieved, if they thought that there was some kind of fraud, we haven't had one case of fraud reported yet, but if they thought there were fraud or they were aggrieved in election, that the taxpayer subsidize those recounts.

About -- over a buck a ballot, we'll call it, is what it costs to recount. Michigan had 4.8 million voters. So we're talking about a $5 million bill if you use the Wisconsin model and the person that would request such a recount would pay $1 million of that approximately.

COSTELLO: Oh, my goodness. And, you know, I'm just looking at -- there are 4.7 million votes were cast in Michigan. So you have the cost, that's one factor. But then you have a timetable, too. Can you possibly recount all those votes by, I don't know, what's the deadline?

JOHNSON: Well, we're hoping to have it done by December 13th. It is a difficult task. We're already gearing up. It is the county clerks, the 83 county clerks that will be in charge of this in Michigan. And already they've gotten things underway and getting ready in case it is filed. At this point, it has not been filed for a recount. They have until 2:06 this afternoon to bring in a check and also to petition for that recount.

[09:55:07] COSTELLO: And what happens -- what happens if you don't get the recount done by December 13th to Michigan's electoral vote?

JOHNSON: Yes. Well, I can tell you they're already setting up to work on weekends, nights. It's quite a task to recount 4.8 million votes.

COSTELLO: I know, but what happens if they don't make the deadline?

JOHNSON: I don't know. I mean, in Florida, they didn't meet the deadline and so there was Supreme Court action. At this point, we have not had a state recount in almost a half a century, so we're breaking new ground here.

COSTELLO: So is it possible, though, that Michigan's electoral votes might not count if you don't make that deadline? Because the Electoral College meets six days later.

JOHNSON: Yes. Well, you have to remember, this has gone through the local clerks, the county canvass board and the state canvass board and those certificates have already been issued.

COSTELLO: All right, I have to leave it there. Ruth Johnson, thank you so much for being with me this morning.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.

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[10:00:08] COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello in Washington. Thank you so much for joining me.