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Trump to Tour Plant to Tout Jobs Deal; Sanders Slams Deal; Carrier Employee Talks About the Deal. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 01, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[14:00:12] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We begin with breaking news. At any moment now we will be seeing Donald Trump live up to a major campaign promise, as well as his precipitation as a deal maker in chief. Note, it is 50 days before he officially places his hand on that Bible in Washington and becomes the next president of the United States.

I'm talking about Trump winning back a thousand jobs in Indiana that had been on their way to Mexico. Any minute now, Trump and his vice president-elect, Mike Pence, who you will remember, of course, the governor of the great state of Indiana, they are scheduled to tour the Carrier air conditioning plant in Indianapolis.

But as Trump and Pence take a bit of a victory lap today, taxpayers could lose out and critics, including conservatives, say Trump may be setting a dangerous precedent. A source familiar with the negotiations tells CNN that carrier will get $7 million in state incentives and tax breaks over the course of ten years in exchange for keeping those thousand jobs right where they are.

Meantime, this Carrier tour kicks off a day of celebration for Trump. Later on he will begin what his team is calling a thank you tour starting with an event this evening in Cincinnati, Ohio.

But, first, we begin in Indiana. CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is in Indianapolis.

We know - do we know if the - the Trump plane has arrived and when should we see him?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Brooke.

Well, we know that the plane is about to arrive, approximately 2:03 is what our pool report is estimating that he will actually arrive here. He's going to go straight to the plant and ironically he's going to be on the floor where ten months ago the bosses told their employees that their jobs were going to Mexico. That is where he's going to start the tour, take around the plant, and then he's going to end up here and he's going to address some of the details of this deal here.

And so a lot of people very excited. There's anticipation. There's also a sense of worry, too, Brooke. Some people really feel like this is not going to apply to everybody. I mean most of the jobs, bulk of the jobs, will be - will be saved, but some people, they're not certain if they're going to take a pay cut, if the roll is going to change.

Some of the details that we've gotten, and we have learned, as you have as well, it is $7 million over the course of 10 years. And what it means is $700,000 a year. It breaks down in terms of $500,000 as really a tax break, a refund if you will, tax income refund. And then $200,000 for training of employees. And so that is what they are looking at.

Those are small numbers, as you know, Brooke, compared to what the company said, Carrier, they could have saved up to $65 million a year if they had moved their operation to Mexico. So the big picture, the big question is really what is behind this deal here. And that you have to take a look at the parent company, United Technologies. It is a major defense company contracting with the government. It's $56 billion in revenue, about 10 percent of that business with the Pentagon. So that is also something that clearly people were looking at what was behind this art of the deal, if you will.

But, Brooke, I have been speaking with workers here, as well as the union representatives of the United Steel Workers and he essentially is saying, look, we were not a part of this negotiation. We're not certain if this is really the best deal for our workers. They are meeting with Trump when he gets here. They want to make sure that they are happy with what they're hearing and what they're going to be telling their workers.

BALDWIN: Right.

MALVEAUX: But this is an extraordinarily rare situation, Brooke, and he is simply - seemed to have pulled it off. At least he is taking for it, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes. There are lots of praise, lots of criticism, including Senator Sanders writing this op-ed in "The Washington Post." We'll get to all of that momentarily.

But, you know, Trump's deal with Carrier, it definitely has its critics. You will soon hear from one of the fiercest. But we also have heard from some of the 1,000 people who will get to stay right where they are, keep paying their mortgages, keeping their jobs and their families with responses ranging from straight up joy to cautious optimism. Even the White House is giving Trump credit, kind of. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It's - that's obviously good news and - and - and an announcement that we would welcome. But, again, as I mentioned yesterday, Mr. Trump would have to make 804 more announcements just like that to equal the standard of jobs in the manufacturing sector that were created in this country under President Obama's watch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: While we wait for President-elect Donald Trump to appear at Carrier, let's have a bigger conversation with CNN political commentator Ryan Lizza, who is the Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker," CNN senior political analyst David Gergen, past adviser to four presidents, including Presidents Nixon and Clinton, finance expert Monica Mehta, and we have CNN politics reporter Eric Bradner, who is actually from and has spent many years covering the state of Indiana.

[14:05:19] So great to have all of you.

Listen, this is fluid. At any moment now, if we see Trump, we're just going to take it live.

But, Eric, to you first, as the Indiana voice here so far, I just wanted to take everyone back to February when, you know, candidate Trump was talking about Carrier and the jobs back on the trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: You're going to make air conditioners now in Mexico. You're going to get all of these 1,400 people that are being laid off. They're laid off. They were crying. They were - it was a very sad situation. You're going to go to Mexico. You're going to make air conditions in Mexico. You're going to put them across our border with no tax. I'm going to tell them right now, I am going to get consensus from Congress and we're going to tax you when those air conditioners come. So stay where you are or build in the United States, because we are killing ourselves with trade packs that are no good for us and no good for our workers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, that was candidate Trump, Eric, you know, at that debate in February. Fast forward to now and there's follow through. I mean for Indianans, how big of a victory is this?

ERIC BRADNER, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, I mean, this is not exactly what he promised to do. There are no tariffs involved. But he is - he did make a very specific pledge, not jobs overall, but one specific instance, and here he is carrying it out. So it's a major public relations victory if nothing else.

It doesn't address a quarter million manufacturing jobs lost in the United States over the last year, but - but it's a start and it's something that he's been able to do as president-elect before actually having the power of the Oval Office. So this is significant in Indiana. This is a major manufacturer. This is a source of a lot of sort of middle-class jobs in the Indianapolis area. The state's most populous. And it's a state that went for President Obama in 2008 and then eight years later overwhelmingly for Donald Trump. So there's clearly a lot of hope that he can carry through on some of these promises. And this is a reason for optimism for employees at Carrier in Indianapolis, if not more broadly.

BALDWIN: Ryan Lizza, this is what, you know, we heard from Trump as he was out campaigning, I want to keep jobs in the U.S. This is all about the economy. Here he is, you know, saving these thousand jobs.

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BALDWIN: You know, from a political lens, how symbolic is this?

LIZZA: It's pretty important I think. Look, if he - if these jobs had been sent to Mexico, we would be slamming Trump and saying, look, this was just an empty promise that he made on the campaign trail and, of course, he never was going to follow through. So you have to give him credit that he said he was going to do this and he did it.

The devil, of course, is in the details and $7 million in tax incentives for a thousand jobs, that's, what, $7,000 a job? And, you know, the question is, what will be his broader economic policy that increases manufacturing in the United States? He cannot, of course, go factory to factory and make individual deals to keep jobs here, right?

BALDWIN: Of course he can't.

LIZZA: So we need - we need to know what the bigger package is. And, obviously, as a lot of economists on both the right and the left have pointed out over the last couple of days, you do create an incentive now for sort of, you know, corporate extortion, right? You're a big employer. You say - you go to the White House and say, hey, I'm going to move these jobs to Mexico unless you give me a similar deal that Carrier got. So there are a lot of economists that are very worried.

BALDWIN: Which is exactly what Senator Bernie Sanders -

LIZZA: Yes.

BALDWIN: Who would have liked to have been in the White House, is exactly what he was writing about in "The Washington Post." So -

LIZZA: And, look, that's not like a crazy left wing Bernie Sanders thing.

BALDWIN: Right.

LIZZA: You'll find economists on the right making the same argument right now.

BALDWIN: It's a valid concern.

Let me just read - let me read just an excerpt, if you all haven't read this op-ed from "The Post" this morning.

Senator Sanders writes, "instead of a damn tax, the company will be rewarded with a damn tax cut. Wow. How's that for standing up to corporate greed." He goes on, "in essence, United Technologies took Trump hostage and won and that should send shock waves of fear through all workers across the country."

David Gergen, in terms of how unprecedented a move this is, especially looking at past presidents, and also thinking if, you know, if you're a company and you're thinking, well, OK, if there's a little sweetener and maybe I threat to move to Mexico, what can the president do for me?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't recall Bernie Sanders writing an op-ed like this when President Obama intervened and saved the automobile industry in this country.

BALDWIN: Yes.

GERGEN: He did the right thing and he deserved to take credit for it. And I think in some ways this is a much smaller measure, obviously, and you can belittle it all you want, but I do think it's important. I think it's symbolically important. He's delivered - the first thing he's done on jobs, it was good for American workers.

BALDWIN: And he's not even been sworn in.

GERGEN: He's not even been sworn in and he's pulled this off. It - and, secondly, I think very importantly for his leadership, he sends an important message to workers across the country. Quote, "I'm on your side." "I'm on your side." And that's very important to governing. Everybody understands he's not going to be able to return all these lost jobs. We've lost 5 million manufacturing jobs since 2000. Nobody is so unrealistic to think he's going to bring all those jobs back, but if he's out there fighting for you, it makes you feel much better about the guy in the White House.

[14:10:29] BALDWIN: Put this all in perspective for us.

MONICA MEHTA, FINANCE EXPERT: So five million jobs lost, as he mentioned, is one out of every six manufacturing jobs. So this - Trump is touching upon a pain point that has - that has existed for a big part of America, that politicians have been very slow to recognize. So moving forward in the way that he has with this very public expression is meaningful to many workers in America. And I think it will earn him brownie points. It will show that he is going to walk the walk with the talk that he's had.

BALDWIN: Yes. You know, I was reading - it was Fortune and Alan Murray, Eric, who had - you know, had the scoop on exactly how this whole thing went down initially and apparently it was the president- elect himself who picked up the phone and called the CEO of Carrier's parent company, United Technologies, Greg Hayes, who actually will be the first speaker when we take this event live momentarily, and sort of negotiated this whole thing and then finally said, all right, now you can work with, you know, my friend, the vice president-elect, Mike Pence, who you know as the governor of your state. How should - how should Trump - tone matters when he speaks momentarily. What should he say?

BRADNER: Yes, it's interesting that state incentives are involved here because they're almost sort of window dressing, right? Democratic and Republican states and municipalities offer these sorts of incentives all the time. And even in the context of Indiana's incentives, the $7 million isn't much. And so this really is all about Trump - I don't know if threatening is the right word, but appearing poised to use the power of the Oval Office to revoke a federal contract or a series of federal contracts. That's a bit of a dangerous threat, especially when national security is involved, as it is in some of these United Technologies contracts.

So he has to strike a sort of measured tone here. He doesn't want to be throwing markets into flux, threatening companies. He wants to come off as having achieved something without appearing to put the American economy at risk the way things are done sort of into flux (ph).

So it's going to be a bit channeling. I think that's why we're seeing a bit of emphasis on the state incentives, even though they don't amount to much here. It's sort of a carrot-and-stick approach that Trump gets to sort of talk about and brag about now.

BALDWIN: So, David Gergen, it's interesting Eric used the word "brag."

GERGEN: Right.

BALDWIN: I mean you've got to be care in your language saying, see, told you in February. Maybe the deal isn't the exact same as I said, but I'm saving you your jobs.

GERGEN: I think he would be so much better off if he doesn't brag. If, in fact, he's grateful.

BALDWIN: Yes.

GERGEN: He's grateful to the leadership of Carrier, of United Technologies, and for the good people in the state, and the governor and others in the state who've made this happen. And he should stand back and not take credit. It would be one of the things - it would surprise everybody and it would also be the gracious thing to do.

BALDWIN: OK. I want to ask all of you to stay with me. We are watching and waiting for this moment where we'll be seeing the head of this company, who's the one who spoke with Mr. Trump and helped broker this deal, along with the president-elect, the vice president-elect there at Carrier, at that plant in Indianapolis. We will take it all live and listen for their message.

Also ahead, we will hear from some of the people who are on the front lines of the factory, those affected the most at Carrier who last February learned their jobs would be moved to Mexico. What are their thoughts now? Are they celebrating or not quite yet? We'll take you live to that Carrier facility coming up next.

Also ahead, the Trump thank you tour kicks off tonight with a rally in Cincinnati, Ohio. The question many are asking, which Donald Trump will we see?

We'll be back in a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I worked in Cincinnati and I love Cincinnati. That I can tell you. Love it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[14:18:36] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. Live pictures. There's the Trump plane. The president-elect has officially landed there in Indiana. So just a quick idea of what will be happening. They will hop off the plane. We'll be listening to, once they arrive at the Carrier facility there in Indianapolis where he has helped save these thousand jobs, we'll be hearing from the CEO of United Technologies first, Greg Hayes, then the vice president-elect, who is also the governor of Indiana, and then from the president-elect as well.

Essentially this is the promise, to get the air conditioning manufacturer Carrier to keep jobs in Indiana instead of sending them on to Mexico. There is a deal to save a thousand of those jobs. We don't know all the details. We could shortly learn some once we hear from all of them at that plant in Indianapolis momentarily. I can only imagine that workers there are eager to find out how legit this deal is after they were given the heartbreaking news back in February.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It became clear that the best way to stay competitive and protect the business for the long term is to move production from our facility in Indianapolis to Monterey, Mexico.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: But fast forward to July, Donald Trump was making some serious campaign promises, vowing to keep that plant open.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: We're not going to let them just take our companies out, fire everybody. These are people with Carrier for many, many years. We're not going to let it happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:20:11] BALDWIN: Well, Mr. Trump is on the way. We'll keep that camera pointed to that door so hopefully we can sneak a peek of him and the vice president-elect getting off that plane. But people at this plant, they are cautiously optimistic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joy, excited, and looking to the future.

It means I don't have to go out hitting the streets looking for a job. It means that I can put my last daughter through college.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I woke up with a smile on my face.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A part of me is happy, but a part of me is still saying, you know, is this really true because we heard this news back in February that the company is leaving. I mean they made that known.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will we keep the same pay, one? Two, how long will they stay?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kind of skeptical, unsure, really how it's going to really play out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now by phone one of those workers at that factory at Carrier, who's been there for about ten years. She is Amber Needy, who's on the factory floor in Indianapolis. Also joining us, Jared Evans, a councilman who represents the district where the Carrier plant is located.

So, welcome to both of you.

And, Amber, I know it's the middle of your work day. I really appreciate you hopping on the phone because, you know, this is a big deal for you. This could directly impact you. Are you feeling a big sigh of relief or not - not so much?

AMBER NEEDY, CARRIER EMPLOYEE: Honestly, I remain optimistic, but at the same time I'm still waiting to gather more information (INAUDIBLE) the impact that it will have on (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: Do you - do you know - I mean do you all know yet whose jobs will be saved?

NEEDY: No, we have not been provided with that information yet.

BALDWIN: You haven't.

NEEDY: (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: Do you know if you will be meeting at all with the president- elect or the vice president-elect?

NEEDY: We had heard rumors that there was supposed to be a meeting around 2:00. It's after 2:00, obviously. I'm still hoping that we'll be able to meet with them and, you know, find out some information about what's occurring, but at this time I don't have any confirmation about an official (ph).

BALDWIN: Gotcha. Well, let me ask you this. If you were to be able to have the ear of the president-elect, what would you want him to know? What would you ask about all of this?

NEEDY: Well, obviously, I would take the time to thank him. You know, he put a lot of effort into helping my fellow employees keep jobs (INAUDIBLE). So I definitely want to thank him for his efforts, especially since I know he is busy trying to put his cabinet together. But I also would want to know what impact this has on the state of Indiana. I'm very grateful that jobs will be saved, but I'm also really curious about at what cost it may potentially be to the taxpayers of Marion (ph) County.

BALDWIN: Yes. It's a great point. One that's being made.

Amber, stay with me.

Jared, let me just bring you in. You know, as a city councilman, you know, you're a Democrat. But, you know, these are your constituents, a thousand of whom who get to stay put right there at home in Indianapolis. What's your response to this news?

JARED EVANS (D), INDIANAPOLIS CITY-COUNTY COUNCIL: Well, you know, gratefulness. We're thankful and we're appreciative, you know, for the labor movement and keeping this in the media. We have to remind ourselves that this all kind of started because a brave woman videotape, recorded the incident which was taking place when they were getting fired.

BALDWIN: We just played it.

EVAN: I'm thankful for President-elect Trump for continuing to, you know, keep this as his campaign rhetoric - excuse me, not rhetoric, but out there on the trail keeping in on the front news. So we're very appreciative and thankful.

BALDWIN: Here they are. Pictures of the president-elect and the vice president-elect leaving the plane there in Indianapolis and momentarily arriving. They'll be taking a tour of Carrier, which is where Amber is working right now.

So as we stay on these pictures, Amber, can I - can I put you on the spot and just ask, did you vote for Trump?

NEEDY: Yes, I did.

BALDWIN: You did. So you tell me, I main, was part of the reason why you voted for him because of what he talked about with regard to the economy, with regard to working and middle-class Americans in keeping jobs in America?

NEEDY: Honestly, my main reason for voting for Donald Trump was because of his talk about how he was going to improve the economy and on his immigration policy.

BALDWIN: And so with him at your factory, you know, one of the worries - we were talking about Senator Bernie Sanders who wrote this opinion piece in "The Washington Post" and he was saying this could - this could be a - a dangerous precedent because imagine if you're another plant or another factory in the country and perhaps you threaten about, you know, moving to Mexico because you think there may be some sweeteners, some incentive thrown in to benefit the company, that could be dangerous. Can you see that perspective?

[14:25:17] NEEDY: I mean, I like to pride myself on being an open- minded individual, capable of seeing both sides of the story. So I definitely understand the concerns that people have regarding -

BALDWIN: Amber, I think I'm having a tough time hearing you. I wish it was a little clearer. Jared, same question to you.

EVANS: You know, we - I think there is a little bit of concern. We're a little bit afraid that we're setting a dangerous precedent. Historically, we have not given incentives for companies to stay here. It's usually been given to companies to expand, to create jobs. So it's a dangerous precedent. And I - again, I don't want to sound like we're not thankful. I'm very grateful and thankful for President-elect Trump, the Carrier workers for keeping this out there.

But I think, long term solutions, looking at this from a national perspective, we're going to have to look at addressing this. This cannot - the solution that I think - And I'm not positive of all the information, but the solution that is appearing to be created is not something that every state and city can continue to do and repeat.

You know, we have to remind ourselves, this is - as sad as it is, this is kind of corporate welfare. This is a multibillion dollar profitable company who basically is saying, give me some more money or we're going to take these jobs and go to Mexico. So we're very thankful that we're, you know, keeping a thousand families in work. Because it's not just the individual workers, it's the families that are affected as well.

However, a thousand other families at this point, it doesn't appear, are going to be able to have their jobs. Just down the street from Carrier, we have another plant, Rexnord, that's about 350 families as well that are losing their jobs to Monterey, Mexico. So are we - you know, where's the tax incentives for them? You can kind of see where this precedent that is being set by this development that we're doing with Carrier, is something now that other plants and manufacturing companies are going to want to see done for them.

So we're going to have to address this nationally. I think Senator Donnelly (ph) has put together a white paper that has some of those addresses. Senator Sanders recently, as you said, had the opinion op- ed and I think he had a lot of great things in there that we need to look at. When you have CEOs making over $100 million, this just isn't appropriate.

BALDWIN: Jared Evans, thank you for your voice. Amber Needy, thank you for taking a moment with me. Perhaps you'll get that moment with either the president-elect or the vice president-elect.

Again, these are live pictures from Indianapolis. We just saw both of them disembark that plane there on the tarmac and they will be heading to that Carrier plant in Indianapolis. We're told they're going to take a tour. Then we'll hear from the CEO of United Technologies, who helped broker this deal ultimately with - between these two gentlemen you see on your screen. So we'll be taking all of that in.

Also, in addition to being in Indiana today, they'll be taking a bit of a victory lap in the rest belt. In addition to this Carrier plant tour, there will be a huge rally in Ohio for this evening. What will that look like? What will the tone be? The optics? Lots to talk about here on this Thursday. We'll be right back.

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