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Trump Vows to Leave His Businesses; Trump Cabinet; Plane Crash in Colombia; Can Europe Survive the Trump Effect; Toughest Sanctions Yet on North Korea; Votes in Italy and Austria Could Rock EU; New Uncertainty About U.S.-Russian Relations; Trump Promised to Pull Out of Iran Nuclear Deal; Police Threatens Nickelback "Sentence" for Drunk Driving. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired December 01, 2016 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:00:11] JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles.

Ahead this hour, Donald Trump promises to separate his business from the people's business but questions remain about potential conflicts of interest.

A packed stadium with flares, cheers and chants -- but this is no celebration. Instead a farewell to their fallen heroes, a football team killed in a plane crash.

And cruel and unusual punishment in Canada. Police threaten drunk drivers with Nickelback.

Hello everybody. I'd like to welcome our viewers all around the world. I'm John Vause. NEWSROOM L.A. starts right now.

Donald Trump may not be going out of business but it will not be business as usual for the incoming U.S. President. Trump says it is visually important to avoid any conflicts of interest so he's leaving his global real estate empire to focus on making America great again. Trump tweeted "Legal documents are being crafted which take me completely out of business operations. The presidency is a far more important task."

Joining me now is talk radio hosts Ethan Bearman and John Phillips. John is also a CNN political commentator and a columnist for the "Orange County Register". He soon may have a new job that we don't know about.

Good to have you guys right here.

Let's start with that tweet from the President-Elect, the emphasis here on business operations as opposed to ownership seems to imply Trump is not ruling out giving up his financial stake in his business.

Democrats, Senator Elizabeth Warren like so many others raising questions about this and conflicts of interest. Listen to the Senator. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Is he really going to have a separation where he doesn't know what advances Trump interests and foreign governments, for example, don't know what would advance Trump interests? If they both know what advances Trump interests, this isn't about formal ownership this is about whether or not you have a conflict of interest, whether or not Donald Trump is actually working for the American people or just working for Trump enterprises.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: John -- in the past, most presidents have, you know, sold or put their financial interests into a blind trust operated by an independent moderator or controller, if you like. They didn't have to do it, why should Donald Trump be any different?

JOHN PHILLIPS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh this will get worked out. It's no big deal. This happens all the time at the state and local level.

VAUSE: No, it doesn't.

PHILLIPS: Oh, of course it does.

VAUSE: What -- billionaires?

PHILLIPS: Dick Riordan was mayor of Los Angeles. He was a very successful developer. People raised the issue during the campaign, it turned out not to be a big deal at all. Michael Bloomberg in New York, the same thing happened. The governor of Florida was a successful businessman. These things tend to work themselves out.

Additionally it's not like Donald Trump made his money in some clandestine industry. He puts big, gaudy buildings all over the planet with his name plastered on the side in gold.

VAUSE: Right.

PHILLIPS: If he is going to try to use that as a Trojan Horse, I think he's going to end up with a lot of egg on his face.

ETHAN BEARMAN, RADIO HOST: And the endless question of ethics in Washington, D.C. continues. Draining the swamp will only happen if he actually sells the businesses. You can appoint an administrator who is an independent attorney or something and there still is going to be a conflict. So unless he actually sells, it is par for the course Washington business as usual.

VAUSE: Ok. There is a concern though of influence that foreign governments could have if they steer business towards, you know, Trump industries -- right.

PHILLIPS: I'm sure some cracker jack reporter will be on it.

VAUSE: Ok. We'll leave it at that. Ok. Speaking of foreign governments and influence and that kind of stuff, the prime minister of Pakistan called the U.S. President-Elect on Wednesday. According to the Trump transition team, the read-out said the two men "-- had a productive conversation about how the United States and Pakistan will have a strong working relationship in the future. President-Elect Trump also noted that he is looking forward to a lasting and strong personal relationship with Prime Minister Sharif."

The Pakistanis though they gave a little bit of more detail on all of this. This is what the Pakistanis said. "President Trump told Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif 'you have a very good reputation. You are a terrific guy. You are doing amazing work which is visible in every way. I am looking forward to seeing you soon. As I'm talking to you Prime Minister, I feel I am talking to a person I have known for long. Your country is amazing with tremendous opportunities. Pakistanis are one of the most intelligent people. I'm ready and willing to play any role that you want me to play to address and find solutions to the outstanding problems. It will be an honor and I will personally do it. Feel free to call me any time even before the 20th of January -- that is before I assume my office'.

Assuming what the Pakistanis have said is actually true, Ethan I'm guessing this is why incoming presidents have briefings from the State Department.

BEARMAN: Yes, to put that mildly. I mean this is actually outrageous. We have a pretty severe terrorist situation emanating out of Pakistan.

[00:05:02] Obviously President-Elect Trump does not know the President nor the Prime Minister of Pakistan. I mean this reminds me of George Bush saying he looked into Putin's eyes and saw into his soul. It's actually a little disturbing to me.

PHILLIPS: He's a charmer. This is what presidents do. They go and they charm other heads of state --

VAUSE: Really -- to that extent, sir? To that extent? It does seem to be gushing. Is this a typical conversation that, you know, Barack Obama would have had, you know with the Prime Minister of Pakistan?

PHILLIPS: Presidents have great confidence in their abilities to go out and charm other heads of state. If you go back to when FDR was president, he thought he could charm Joe Stalin. He thought that he was the one that could make it happen. This is part of the reason why I love Trump.

BEARMAN: Wait a minute, wait a minute. I mean this is the country that was harboring Osama bin Laden, the intelligence services there's extensive evidence from our friends in India, from the U.S. intelligence, from British intelligence that the Pakistani intelligence mechanism is working with the Islamo-fascist terrorists. So to just blow it off is --

(CROSSTALK) PHILLIPS: I mean they play both sides.

VAUSE: Right.

PHILLIPS: They like to pretend like they are an ally sometimes and then work against us behind our back. But they are not unique in that. There are a lot of countries in that region of the world that do the exact same thing.

VAUSE: But there is a foreign policy issue here. India is a close ally of the United States and Pakistan has issues with India. The Indian prime minister, the government finds out about this or reads this conversation that the Pakistanis claim to have had with the President-Elect, all sorts of problems, possibly.

PHILLIPS: But there are going to be a lot of conversations like this that he's going to have with many heads of state. So I don't think this is unique in some capacity to Pakistan. I'm sure he gave the Indians the same love.

VAUSE: Ok. I hope so. We don't know.

Ok. So all this actually I guess comes to the reason why Donald Trump needs a good secretary of state. And we know that the list -- the final list, the final four; like "American Idol" it's down to four. Governor Mitt Romney is among them. He had dinner with Trump on Tuesday night. That did not impress the vice chair of Trump's transition team, Newt Gingrich.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: You have never, ever in your career seen a serious adult who is wealthy, independent, that's been a presidential nominee, suck up at the rate that Mitt Romney is sucking up. I mean I am confident that he thinks now that Donald Trump is one of his closest friends, that they have so many things in common, that they are both such wise, brilliant people. And I'm sure last night at an elegant three-star restaurant in New York that Mitt was fully at home, happy to share his vision of populism which involves a little foie gras, a certain amount of, you know, superb cooking but was done in a populist, happy manner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Ethan, I'm going to go out on a limb. Newt doesn't like Mitt.

BEARMAN: He sounds like a spurned lover. It's what it sounds like to me. Newt sounds like he's a little bit bitter that he is not on the short list.

I actually think -- and I'm very curious if John and I agree or disagree on this one. I think of all the names I've heard out there for secretary of state, I think Mitt Romney is by far the best choice.

He clearly knows how to work with people across the aisle, of all political stripes. He salvaged the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Games. I actually think he ran a fairly good campaign in 2012 even though he lost. And he is downright presidential. He's an excellent choice for secretary of state.

PHILLIPS: I'm not a Mitt Romney hater. I voted for Mitt Romney in 2012 and had Mitt Romney run this time I probably would have supported him when he was talking about getting in very early on in the process.

That being said, I would prefer to see, if we are playing fantasy baseball here, I would prefer to see Mitt Romney at the V.A. --

VAUSE: Right.

PHILLIPS: -- over the Department of State. Because he's the guy who could take underperforming problems and turn them around and our veterans deserve someone who has the ability to go in there and do that because that's a very important department.

VAUSE: I want to get to that in a second. Just talk about what is going on with Newt Gingrich right now?

PHILLIPS: He's clearly not happy. Initially, a lot of people thought there would be some kind of role for Newt Gingrich in the Trump administration. It looks like he's taking on the role of an informal adviser. And sometimes when you're on the outside of the glass looking in, you wish you were on the inside of the glass looking out. And I think that he is acting out in that capacity. And also he was one of the people that was loyal to Trump during the (inaudible) process.

VAUSE: Yes. For months and months and months.

PHILLIPS: And the fact that Mitt Romney, who was downright vicious during portions of this campaign --

VAUSE: Really? What did he say?

PHILLIPS: -- could be rewarded, probably got under his skin. And you know, I understand why he is upset.

VAUSE: After a two-hour dinner, he's probably going to get State Department.

We mentioned the Veterans Affairs, NBC News and a couple of others are now reporting that former VP nominee, Sarah Palin, the "Thrilla from Wasilla", could be tapped as the head of Veterans Affairs.

PHILLIPS: She could end up at the Department of the Interior. You never know.

[00:09:59] VAUSE: There is reporting though at the moment it's Veterans Affairs.

PHILLIPS: Yes.

VAUSE: How do you see that working out? PHILLIPS: I think that probably is not going to happen. She is

someone who, of course, was the VP nominee with John McCain. She is a celebrity in her own right. She's had all the TV shows. She's got a huge following. I don't think she wants to go back into government. I don't think she wants to move to Washington, D.C. I think she is fine where she is.

BEARMAN: I think it would be a shocking embarrassment if she was named to head the V.A. Actually John made a great point. We need somebody right now to head the V.A. who's going to fix the problems. We have veterans dying because of the failures of the V.A. because of wait times, because they're not getting proper mental healthcare. We can't have somebody like Sarah Palin head up the V.A.

VAUSE: Ok. Well, we'll see what happens. Clearly, you know, the transition of government is underway and we may see Sarah Palin in the cabinet. That would be interesting.

John and Ethan -- see you next hour.

PHILLIPS: Thank you.

BEARMAN: Sounds good.

VAUSE: Thanks -- guys.

Well, football fans who had planned to cheer on -- cheer on their team, rather, on Wednesday night they instead paid tribute to the Brazilian players, coaches and staff killed on Monday's plane crash in Colombia. A lot of Chapecoense supporters gathered at Arena Conda, many of them in tears as they came to terms with their loss.

Thousands more gathered in Medellin just a few hours ago where the teams were set to play each other. Fans wore white and chanted "We will never forget. This cup goes to heaven." The names of the 50 players who died were read out loud.

Investigators are now getting clues from audio recordings made just before the flight went down.

Here's Shasta Darlington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHASTA DARLINGON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: New details emerging into what caused Lamia Flight 2933 to crash just as it was about to descend into Medellin, Colombia. A Colombian radio station released a conversation between an air traffic controller and one of the pilots of the ill- fated flight. In the recording the pilot is desperately telling the air traffic controller that the plane was experiencing total failure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miss, Lima-Mike-India 2933 it's in failure -- total electrical and fuel --

DARLINGTON: Minutes later, another exchange.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lima-Mike-India -- vectors, vectors, miss. Vectors to the runway.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The radar signal was lost. I don't have you. Notify your direction now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're heading 360, 360.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Direction, turn left 010 and proceed to the Rio Negro localizer one mile ahead of the border. At the moment, you're located, correct. I'm confirming going left with direction 350.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Left 350.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, correct. You're at zero-point-one miles to the Rio Negro border.

I don't have your altitude, Lima-Mike-India -- DARLINGTON: And then silence -- those recordings, now part of an

investigation, are sealed. Colombian authorities would not confirm their authenticity to CNN but says the audio has some overlap with their investigation.

Lamia Flight 2933 crashed just minutes away from reaching the runway, killing 71 on board. Many of the victims were players for Chapecoense, a Brazilian underdog soccer team that made it to the finals of one of South America's most prestigious soccer tournaments. Family, friends and fans ready to celebrate their team's possible victory now mourning their loss, embracing one another, visibly devastated.

Meanwhile thousands of Chapecoense fans and friends packed stadiums in both Medellin where their first tournament game was to be held and Chapeco, the team's home town. Remembering their beloved team in death just as they celebrated them in life, cheering them on.

Shasta Darlington, CNN -- Medellin, Colombia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: After more than 30 years of civil war, the Colombian government and the rebel group FARC have a new peace deal. The country's lower Congress unanimously ratified the revised agreement just a few hours ago. Senators approved it a day earlier. Colombians narrowly rejected the deal in a referendum in October. FARC rebels now have 150 days to lay down their arms and bring to an end a conflict which has claimed hundreds of thousands of lives.

Well still to come here, world leaders may have thought Brexit was just an aberration but the election of Donald Trump seemed to have blown that theory away. And soon Austria and Italy will head to the polls for votes that could change the political face of Europe.

Also, a defiant North Korea hit by new sanctions -- the high price of their nuclear and missile tests when we come back.

[00:14:54] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) VAUSE: Europe could soon be dealing with not one but two political crises with separate (ph) votes in Italy and Austria this weekend. The Italians will vote on a constitutional referendum which is also a vote on the future of the Prime Minister Matteo Renzi. And in Austria another possible Trump Effect, a far right candidate could become the first to take office in Europe since the end of World War II.

Dominic Thomas joins us now. He is the chair of the Department of Foreign Studies at the University of California here in Los Angeles. Dominic -- good to have you here to explain all of this.

It seems like one crisis has barely ended and another has begun. Let's start with this referendum in Italy this weekend. The vote itself is fairly straight forward. What's it about?

DOMINIC THOMAS, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA IN LOS ANGELES: It's a very interesting situation. You have this new prime minister; he's only been in office for a couple of years -- Matteo Renzi. 41 years old, young, dynamic, really wants to get Italy moving.

The remarkable thing about this vote is that he has the support of the lower house and the upper house. The Italian people went along with electoral reform in 2015.

What he has done though is said that if this reform of the constitution does not go through, in other words if there is a no vote, he has attached his reputation and the future of his prime ministership to this and will have to step down. This is not a ballot measure, this is a referendum.

[00:20:04] So, what he has done is constitutional reform. The most significant is that there are 140 or so articles in the constitution. He wants to alter almost a third of those. But the most significant is that there are currently in the Italian parliament, 945 elected officials.

So in the upper house, where you have the chamber of senators, he wants to reduce the number down to 100 from 315 and then allow the deputies that sit in the lower house to essentially alone with the leadership be able to work on electoral -- not just electoral reform but on legislation and so on which will break down the gridlock and streamline policies and allow things to get done in Italy.

VAUSE: Which on the surface seems to be a good thing but in this current mood where the economy isn't going so well, there is a crisis with immigration, for Matteo Renzi, many people are now seeing this vote as essentially sticking it to the establishment, sticking it to Renzi. So if he loses this referendum and he steps down, then what happens?

THOMAS: Well, what you've got is you've got essentially two political parties. First of all it's important to remember that Renzi sits on a pretty narrow -- in a pretty difficult coalition; his own Democratic Party has only about 28 percent support.

So you have these two political parties, one of them run by Beppe Grillo and the other by Matteo Salvini (ph). One of them is the Five- Star Movement which is this tough, sort of anti-EU, immigration, you know, populist -- Italy used to be better before. And the Northern League which is completely anti-immigration, you know, sovereignty, national identity, garnering a lot of support, a lot of support after having followed the U.S. election, the Brexit movement.

So this rise of this kind of populist nationalist sort of movement is striking a cord. And as you mentioned with unemployment at 11 percent, much higher for youth; a banking system on the verge of collapse and a GNP that is essentially stagnant.

VAUSE: So we could have a situation where Renzi steps down, they have fresh elections. These anti-Europe, anti-global parties, anti- immigrant parties somehow sweep into power and then we're in a situation of a possible sort of exit from Europe?

THOMAS: Right. And we're seeing this and Europe is potentially in crisis, you know. Italy is, of course, one of the original six founding members and we are seeing both in the primaries in France, this move to the right and so on.

VAUSE: Ok. We also have a situation in Austria. It's a rerun of the presidential election between the Independent Alexander Van Der Bellen. He narrowly beat Norbert Hofer, he's from the far right Freedom Party. If Hofer wins, it looks like he'll be the first far right leader to be president in western Europe since World War II.

THOMAS: Right. So it's interesting because you have both a president and a chancellor. You currently have a chancellor who is a Democrat, right -- Christian Kern who is sort of running the show.

But you have this election back in April in which Alexander Van Der Bellen running the Green Party against as you just mentioned Norbert Hofer, who is from this far right, very much anti-immigrant. He is a little bit more careful about sort of things he says about Europe. But the two went up head to head in April and at the end of it by just a very narrow margin, 50.3 percent, the Greens won.

But because of a suspected electoral fraud, ballot issues and so on, the election was essentially annulled. They tried it again in September and the envelopes that were being used to send out the ballots, the mail-in ballots were dysfunctional. They wouldn't stick properly.

Now it has been moved to December 4th.

VAUSE: Ok.

THOMAS: And the writing is on the wall that this far right movement stands to win this presidential race.

VAUSE: And there is a lot of concern in Austria. There is this video posted by a woman called Gertrude (ph). She's a holocaust survivor. She made pleas for voters not to vote for the far right party. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GERTRUDE, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR: (PLEADING FOR VOTERS NOT TO VOTE FOR THE FAR RIGHT)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Some have argued though that the significance of this election is overblown because the role of president in Austria is mostly ceremonial.

THOMAS: Yes, but the president does get to appoint the chancellor. He can appoint ministers. He can fire ministers. But ultimately he has to rely on the national council. And the idea would be that if he was to win the presidency it's to try and force an election that would reflect the will of the people.

And then the likelihood of the far right coming to power is very strong and we see this in countries like France where the French primaries went to the right and in Italy there is growing support for this. And, of course, in the spring we have votes coming up in the Netherlands as well and in Germany.

[00:25:02] VAUSE: Ok. Thanks for explaining it all. There's a lot going on.

THOMAS: Thank you.

VAUSE: South Korea is among many countries welcoming the U.N.'s decision to slap new sanctions on North Korea over its nuclear tests. The sanctions are the most severe yet. They target officials, companies and exports North Korea uses to fund its missile programs. The move is expected to slash Pyongyang's revenue by $800 million a year.

Meantime opponents of South Korean President Park Geun-Hye are vowing to push ahead with impeachment. But they have not agreed on when that might happen. She is accused in a corruption scandal involving a close friend and other aides. The president has offered to step down should parliament but some opposition members rejected that offer. They want support from Miss Park's own party to impeach her.

Now we'll take a break. Thousands of people have left in recent days but 200,000 others still trapped inside the Syrian city of Aleppo. And as the fighting intensifies, the U.S. warns the city could become one giant graveyard if something is not done.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause with the headlines this hour.

Thousands of fans in Colombia and Brazil paid tribute to the Brazilian football players killed in Monday's plane crash. Just before the plane went down, a crew member told air traffic controllers the jet was low on fuel and had no electrical power. 71 people were killed, six survived. Donald Trump is promising to leave his businesses so he can focus on

the presidency and avoid any conflict of interest. He made the announcement on Twitter Wednesday. Trump says he will hold a news conference with his family December 15th to discuss his plans.

[00:30:01] When Fidel Castro came to power in Cuba 57 years ago, he headed west across the island of Havana. Now a military jet is making -- a jeep, rather, is making the reverse journey carrying his cremated remains to Santiago. Cheering crowds lined the streets, waving flags. His funeral will be held on Sunday.

Wildfires have killed seven people in Tennessee after scorching parts of the great smoking mountain. Search and rescue crews are going house to house looking for anyone who may still be trapped. Many family members are looking for missing loved ones.

It is so cold and snowy in North Dakota. The state's governor is telling pipeline protestors to leave. So far they aren't being force out of the camp sites but the state won't guarantee emergency services. Native American tribes started protesting the oil pipeline months ago. Celebrities, military veterans and some politicians have joined the protest.

The U.N. says what's happening in Eastern Aleppo is a slow-motion descent into hell. Thousands of Syrians are so desperate to get away from the carnage, they are fleeing to Western Aleppo, which is under government control.

A volunteer group says at least 45 people were killed Wednesday, most of them women and children. The Syrian regime keeps pounding Eastern Aleppo with air strikes and the rebels are firing back. The U.N. is pleading for a pause in the fighting to give food and other aid.

Diplomatic efforts to resolve the crisis in Syria are basically at a stand still. Russia's backing of the Syrian regime has Moscow at odds with most western leaders, but as Barbara Starr reports there is new uncertainty about Washington's position as Donald Trump heads into office.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Russian President Vladimir Putin revealing his talks with the president-elect.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): In my recent phone conversation with Donald Trump, we agreed that the unsatisfactory condition of Russia-U.S. relations should certainly be straightened out. Like I have already said, our country is ready to do our parts.

STARR: Donald Trump has long praised Putin as a strong leader.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Run by a very smart cookie, much smarter, much more cunning than our president.

STARR: But skepticism of a Trump-Putin bromance is unrelenting given Russia's activities in Ukraine, Aleppo and cyberspace.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think Putin is playing Trump. He also believes that Trump will respond to flattery. And Putin is going to use that tactic to get what he wants from the United States.

STARR: CIA Director John Brennan telling the BBC, "I think President Trump and the new administration need to be wary of Russian promises."

Reversing U.S. course on Russia is risky. Europe is on edge. U.S. marines are here in Norway on winter war games demonstrating U.S. presence. And in Eastern Aleppo, Russian bombs pave the way for the regime's killing of civilians. 40 percent of Eastern Aleppo has fallen in the last 48 hours, according to a U.S. defense official.

Trump also long claiming he will reverse course and back out of the Iran nuclear deal. The CIA director not mincing words saying, "I think it would be disastrous."

If the deal is torn up, the U.S. believes Iran will restart its nuclear weapons program, prompting other nations to race to catch up. Brennan calling it the height of folly to walk away.

As Trump weighs his choices for secretary of state, the current secretary who negotiated the deal made clear he will be ready to speak out against the upcoming Trump administration.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We're going to have one hell of a debate over the course of the next few years. I assure you.

STARR: John Kerry, making a promise.

KERRY: I am not going to go quietly into the night.

STARR (on-camera): And President Obama also is reserving the right to speak out publicly once President Trump takes office. That's something former presidents generally don't do when an administration is new.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Well, they are one of the top-selling rock bands in the world, and yet almost no one admits to liking them. Ahead on CNN NEWSROOM, how police in Canada are using Nickelback to help keep drunk drivers off the road this holiday season.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:36:28] VAUSE: With the holidays approaching, police in Canada are making all the usual warnings about the tough penalties for driving under the influence, lost of license, hefty fines, possible jail time. But in the sleepy town of Kensington, they are warning of a cruel and unusual punishment for drunk drivers who find themselves in the back of a patrol car. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(NICKELBACK'S SONG PLAYING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Yes, Miranda rights, handcuffs and the blaring sound of Canada's much-maligned rock band Nickelback.

Criminal defense attorney Darren Kavinoky joins me now. He said no cop specializes in DUI law.

OK, so what we've been hearing from the police here. They posted this message on Facebook. "If you are foolish enough to get behind the wheel after drinking, the little Chad Kroeger and the boys is the perfect gift for you so please let's not ruin a perfectly good, unopened copy of Nickelback's "You Don't Drink and Drive" and we won't make you listen to it."

Yes, it's all that funny. I suspect you've got Nickelback on your playlist.

DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: Well, I think that's a separate issue. I'll exercise my right to remain silent.

(LAUGHTER)

VAUSE: But being down here for a minute.

KAVINOKY: Yes.

VAUSE: Driving under the influence, drunk driving is a serious problem. Are the police in this instance making light of it?

KAVINOKY: I think that's the only criticism that they could possibly be subjected to. But really, I think it's so clever, and I'll bet you that tomorrow chief marketing officers in corporations all around the world are going to be called into their boss's office to say, you know what, do one of those viral things for me. It's an authentic, real way to get people engaged in an important conversation. It's a big problem.

VAUSE: You hit people in the head with don't, don't, don't, don't, (INAUDIBLE), does this humanizes it?

KAVINOKY: It makes it more accessible and it makes it OK for people to talk about it in a different way. I think it's very, very innovative.

VAUSE: OK. The department told CNN today that they don't actually hate the band. They said this, "We are just using a different approach to get an age-old message communicated. As long as it starts the "Don't drink and drive" dialogue, we're happy with that, which pretty much, you know, what you've been saying.

But Canada has one of the worst rates of impaired driving in the world. So, clearly, they have to do something to get the message out.

KAVINOKY: Right. It's an important time. And the holidays, of course, we do see a spike in drinking-related activity and unfortunately drinking and driving. Obviously, we want to encourage people to exercise responsibility in all of their choices. But in Canada in particular, we've seen that over half the fatalities that happen on the roadway involve alcohol or drugs. And so this is a real problem that needs some real solutions and this opens up some opportunities for real dialogue. So I'm very much in favor of what they're doing here.

VAUSE: Here's the thing about Nickelback. They've sold more than 50 million albums. It makes them the 11th best-selling acts of all time. Billboard, apparently, ranks them, what, most successful rock band of the 2000s.

It does raise a question, why are they the butt of so many jokes?

So for that, let's bring in music writer and author of "The Lefsetz Letter," Bob Lefsetz.

So how does such a big name in music get crucified like this?

BOB LEFSETZ, MUSIC WRITER, THE LEFSETZ LETTER: Everybody hates Nickelback. The bottom line is -- we all need to feel good about ourselves. The way we do that is by hating on somebody. Whether we hate on Kanye, Kim Kardashian, et cetera. But in today's world, where it's almost impossible to get noticed, if you have that much mind share about the public, you are winning.

Nickelback is actually a good act. They did a song, "This is How You Remind Me," about 15 years ago. It was great. They continue to sell out arenas, OK.

[00:40:00] Many people say it's a repetitive sound, but the bottom line is these guys are suburban knights, who were not cool. So all the rankers were saying how bad they are, they're never going to go to the show anyway.

So I applaud the police for having a sense of humor. I don't believe this will have any impact on people drinking and driving or not, but it just illustrates once again that we all need a whipping boy.

VAUSE: I mean, that's the question, though, I mean, the band isn't that bad. Is it really a punishment to listen to them in the back of a car? I read that the police don't even have the "Nickelback" CD ready to go.

LEFSETZ: Well, the story is the police chief said he didn't even own a Nickelback CD. So it was just -- would have throw off. It could have been anything. This was like down in Guantanamo Bay. They are playing Metallica. It's just a signifier for something people hate. And people who are hating don't get today's modern society. When we lived in the pre-Internet era, there were very few things. We were all in a club. Now most of the stuff we are into, no one else even knows about. So the people where Nickelback dance are totally happy. They sell out arenas. They sold millions of albums. Now, of course, with a streaming world, people listen. And they are fine.

So the people who are making fun of Nickelback, they don't get the joke. The joke is on them.

VAUSE: OK, Bob --

(CROSSTALK)

LEFSETZ: (INAUDIBLE) because everyone, no one knows everything anymore.

VAUSE: Bob, except you. You know everything about music. That's why we have you on. Thanks so much.

Thanks, Bob.

LEFSETZ: You bet.

KAVINOKY: And now this is a safe place, I will come. In fact, maybe there is a Nickelback --

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: Bob Lefsetz made it OK for you to come out of the closet.

KAVINOKY: "Rockstar" maybe on my workout playlist. OK, I love you, Nickelback.

VAUSE: OK. Wow. OK, let's get serious here, though, for a minute. Because if we look at the issue of drunk driving in Canada, they have some of the toughest laws on the books, right?

KAVINOKY: They do. And as a matter of fact, even for citizens in the United States, they're unable to gain entry into Canada if they are on probation for DUI here in the U.S. So Canada takes it very seriously with jail, license suspensions. They do all those things internally. But even for people who have DUIs in other countries, who want to come visit Canada, forget it.

VAUSE: Wow. That must be some of the toughest in the world. I mean, you are a defense attorney. One of your specialties is looking out for people who get down --

(CROSSTALK)

KAVINOKY: Who are allegedly --

VAUSE: Allegedly.

KAVINOKY: Yes.

VAUSE: I mean, obviously, the best advice is not to drink and drive. But for people who do get pulled over, you know, from a legal point of view, how should they handle this?

KAVINOKY: Well, I always tell people that the right to remain silent only helps if you do choose to exercise it, which obviously I felt with you tonight, but I recommend that in a polite way. And exercise your right to counsel.

I would also encourage people to consider blood tests actually as opposed to breath tests. There are lots of ways to check the integrity of blood samples. And if you are in this position, really find a lawyer who knows about the science of DUI. There's a lot of junk science out there and an awful lot to talk about.

VAUSE: And, you know, the best advice, Uber. Uber, it was cheap. It's everywhere. It's the best way of doing it.

KAVINOKY: I would love to be put out of business thanks to Nickelback.

(LAUGHTER)

VAUSE: Out of time. Darren, thanks so much.

KAVINOKY: Thanks, John.

VAUSE: OK, lastly here, Kanye West is heading home after a week under observation in hospital. A source tells CNN, the rapper checked out of the UCLA Medical Center, where he was treated for exhaustion. West made headlines for political rants and ranting performances days before he was admitted. He also cancelled the remainder of his North American tour.

Thank you for watching NEWSROOM L.A., I'm John Vause. "World Sport" is next.

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