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Trump Taps "Mad Dog" Mattis For Defense Secy. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 02, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

We do begin with breaking news on the economy. Just minutes ago, we received the government's first jobs report since last month's presidential election. It shows 178,000 jobs were created in the month of November. The unemployment rate drops to 4.6 percent. That is the lowest rate in nine years. CNN Money's chief business correspondent, Christine Romans, is here to break it down for us.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNNMONEY CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Carol, another strong jobs report, and this is really highlighting that tailwind in the economy that Donald Trump has inherited that I've been telling you about. Let me show you the unemployment rate because the chart really paints the picture here, 4.6 percent.

You have to go back to August 2007 to match that number to beat it. You're talking about the spring of 2007, rewinding -- rewinding -- all of the financial crisis and this slow grind that we've had of jobs creation over the past 74 months. Where were the jobs created because this is really telling, especially given the political climate right now?

Business and information systems, 63,000 net new jobs there. Health care, Carol, we have seen health care jobs at it for years now. That is a diverse industry with lots of different kinds of jobs that pay different pay scales. Manufacturing, this is the story of the year -- well, actually, the past generation, honestly. We lost about 4,000 manufacturing jobs. Over the past year, I've just checked those numbers, we're down 54,000 manufacturing jobs over the past year.

That really dovetails nicely with what President-elect Donald Trump has been talking about on the campaign trail, with his crusade with Carrier and the like. That is where there is still pain in the labor market. People who live in some of these states where there are factory towns, where they don't feel like they have the opportunity that they used to.

Quick one last chart to show you, Carol, the labor force participation rate. On the campaign trail, you kept hearing about all these millions of Americans who are sidelined by the labor market. Look at the right side of that chart. Still about the lowest in a generation, but it's not quite as bad as it looks. Some of the people who are not working but are not in the labor market are newly retired. Some are students, some are people who are disabled, some are taking care of elderly parents, taking care of children.

They're out of the labor market because they want to be out of the labor market. Some want to be in the labor market, and they could start coming in maybe as these strong jobs numbers continue. I'm talking about 74 months now consequently of job creation, and you have the lowest unemployment rate, Carol, now since 2007.

COSTELLO: All right. Christine Romans, many thanks to you.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: So the making of a presidency in real time. This is the live stream of the gold elevators inside the Trump Tower where political states rise and fall. Today, the president-elect is welcoming a parade of advisers and potential candidates for his administration jobs. The Vice President-elect Mike Pence is said to be taking part in at least some of today's meetings. That's after he and Trump did a victory lap yesterday in Pence's home state of Indiana and then Ohio.

In Cincinnati, the President-elect reignited the boisterous enthusiasm that catapulted him to his stunning upset. That includes combative campaign rhetoric and one unscripted bombshell. Trump wants retired Marine General James Mattis to become his Defense Secretary. The formal announcement is still days away, but already a potential obstacle looms.

Phil Mattingly in Cincinnati with the latest. Good morning.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Carol. Some hurdles for that Defense Secretary pick that's going to be announced next week. I'll get into that in a minute, but I think it's interesting to note what actually happened last night.

You noted, Carol, that it was kind of a victory tour. Now, his campaign aides were very clear -- sorry, transition aides were very clear, this is not a victory tour. This is a "Thank you" tour. But we saw a lot of themes last night that echoed just about everything we saw during the campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our victory was great, we have the House, we have the Senate, and we have the presidency.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): President-elect Donald Trump saying thank you, and I told you so.

TRUMP: Remember, you cannot get to 270. See? Dishonest press.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Returning to the stage where he appears most comfortable and delivering an unmistakable message, the unconventional candidate who won a stunning victory three weeks ago is here to stay.

TRUMP: I love this stuff. Should I go on with this just a little bit longer?

(APPLAUSE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): The President-elect boasting about breaking Hillary Clinton's blue wall.

TRUMP: We didn't break it, we shattered that sucker. That poor wall is busted up.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): And taking a jab at his former opponent while firing up the crowd with some red meat.

TRUMP: We did have a lot of fun fighting Hillary, didn't we?

CROWD: Lock her up. Lock her up.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): But also calling for unity of a deeply divided nation after a contentious election.

TRUMP: We condemn bigotry and prejudice in all of its forms. We denounce all of the hatred and we forcefully reject the language of exclusion and separation. We're going to come together. We have no choice. We have to and it's better.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Trump stressing the populist message that won him the White House.

[09:05:02] TRUMP: From now on, it's going to be America first. OK?

MATTINGLY (voice-over): While doubling down on key campaign promises.

TRUMP: We are repealing and replacing Obamacare.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: We will finally end illegal immigration. We have to. We will construct a great wall at the border.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): And veering off script to break some big news about his own Cabinet.

TRUMP: I want to save the suspense for next week. And don't let it outside of this room.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Trump announcing that he has selected retired Marine General James Mattis as his Secretary of Defense.

TRUMP: "Mad Dog" Mattis, they say he's the closest thing to General George Patton that we have, and it's about time.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): While defending the other wealthy Cabinet picks he's made so far.

TRUMP: He knows how to make money. I've been honest. I said I am going to be putting on the greatest killers you've ever seen.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): The raucous rally coming on the heels of Trump's victory lap at the Carrier plant in Indiana.

TRUMP: Companies are not going to leave the United States anymore without consequences. Not going to happen.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): The President-elect touting the deal spearheaded by his running mate, the current Governor of Indiana, to keep nearly 1,000 jobs in the state.

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Carrier chose to stay in Indiana because America chose to make Donald Trump the next President of the United States.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Now, Carol, you raised an interesting element about that looming announcement that James Mattis will be the Secretary of Defense pick. He is technically not eligible for that position. He retired from the military in 2013. You need to be removed from the military for more than seven years to be eligible to run the Defense Department. It's a pretty good reason. It's U.S. kind of baseline that civilians control the military.

Now, I've talked to Trump transition aides, they say they did not believe they're going to have any problem at all getting a waiver from Capitol Hill. This has happened before in 1950. George C. Marshall was easily able to get that waiver.

However, keep an eye on where opposition starts to show its face. We already saw one statement, Kirsten Gillibrand, New York Senator, strong voice in Democratic caucus last night, within an hour of this announcement coming, announcing that she would oppose the waiver because, again, civilian leadership, a principle of American democracy. Not expecting a lot of that that, but keep an eye on it when it does show up -- Carol.

COSTELLO: We absolutely will. Phil Mattingly, thanks so much. So let's talk about that and more.

With me now, CNN chief political correspondent, Dana Bash; politics editor for theroot.com, Jason Johnson; and national political reporter for "The Washington Post," Matea Gold. Welcome to all of you.

JASON JOHNSON, POLITICS EDITOR, THEROOT.COM: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So, Dana, let's talk unity because, you know, we have talk unity these days. Trump will actually talk to a Democratic lawmaker about a Cabinet position.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

COSTELLO: So is that an olive branch?

BASH: Well, one man's olive branch is another man's mischief-making because, sure, it has been the tradition, I guess, since George W. Bush and maybe even before, to have a Democrat in the Cabinet. Barack Obama had --

COSTELLO: Just one.

BASH: At least one, right. Barack Obama had Ray LaHood, the former Congressman from Illinois, and George W. Bush had --

JOHNSON: Dear God, he was -- he had several. Bush had --

BASH: Anyway. He had --

JOHNSON: Yes, yes.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: He was the transportation --

JOHNSON: Try to tell me something, yes.

BASH: He was the Transportation Secretary.

JOHNSON: Yes.

BASH: His name is escaping me. Regardless, it is the tradition, so we should see a Democrat in the trump administration. However, going after a Democrat from the reddest of red states, Heidi Heitkamp is from North Dakota, is also about trying to take away a Democratic seat in the Senate where every single seat counts. It won't make for a majority or a minority, but every single vote counts when you're trying to get your legislation through. And the bench of Democratic candidates to replace Heidi Heitkamp in the red state is not very big.

COSTELLO: OK. But let's Trump the benefit of the doubt and that's an olive branch, right, because he did talk unity at his big rally in Cincinnati. The problem, you know, he kind of dissed Hillary Clinton. The crowd chanted, "Lock her up." The crowd was mostly White, right? Protesters were thrown out. So was it unifying, Jason?

JOHNSON: No. No, I don't believe anything that Donald Trump says about unity. I can see that from the administration that he's picked. I can see that from the policies he's proposed. Let's look at what he said just at the rally. He's like we are against the hate, this or the other. I had come to the conclusion, and I think his own behavior speaks to this, I don't believe anything Donald Trump says until he tweets it. Right?

He'll tweet about "The New York Times," he'll tweet about "Hamilton," he'll tweet about Carrier. He hasn't tweeted anything about the rise in hate crimes. He hasn't tweeted anything about White nationalist groups. When he does that, I'll believe him.

And I'll also say this about bringing people together. If you bring people together, how about you have a Cabinet that looks like America? He might be the first President-elect in almost 25 years to have the big four positions -- Commerce, the Treasury, A.G., Secretary of Defense -- and no women and no people of color.

COSTELLO: But he has four women. He has named four women to his staff.

BASH: Yes.

[09:10:11] JOHNSON: In the big four positions, though.

COSTELLO: Right.

JOHNSON: I mean, you had Colin Powell under George Bush. You had Madeleine Albright under Bill Clinton. You had Eric Holder, A.G. for Barack Obama. That is how you show unity, not just through party but also through people.

BASH: Yes, that's true.

COSTELLO: OK. So --

BASH: Oh, can I just say something? She was --

COSTELLO: OK.

BASH: It was Norm Mineta. Thank you, Mike Shields, who just texted me that. Norm Mineta. Go ahead.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: Carry on.

COSTELLO: I knew you were beating yourself up over that, Dana. I could see it.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: But, you know, Jason, you bring up -- emotions are still raw through most of the country, right? And you can certainly see that at a Harvard event last night, right?

BASH: Oh, yes.

JOHNSON: Yes.

COSTELLO: So Trump's campaign manager Kellyanne Conway was there. Jennifer Palmieri was there, who's Clinton's communications director. They were at a forum to kind of talk about the election and you know, to record history for Harvard University. But things turned ugly quickly. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER PALMIERI, FORMER DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS FOR HILLARY CLINTON: If providing a platform for White supremacists makes me a brilliant tactician, I am glad to have lost. I would rather lose than win the way you guys did.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD TRUMP: Do you think I ran a campaign where White supremacists had a platform? Are you going to look me in the face and tell me that? PALMIERI: It did, Kellyanne. It did.

CONWAY: Really?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.

PALMIERI: It did.

CONWAY: And that's how you lost?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, wait a minute. Wait. Why are you --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh. You guys are upset --

CONWAY: Do you think you could have just had a decent message for the White working-class voters?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. So, Matea, that was ugly and it was raw. But does it really reflect the two Americas that we supposedly live in, or was it, I don't know, somewhat overbaked?

MATEA GOLD, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, I think a lot of people noted that it actually reflected their Facebook feeds. So, you know, I think what it highlighted was how deeply polarized not just the political class in this country is after this election, but voters in general and, you know, there is a lot of anger on both sides.

The Clinton people clearly feel that they had an uphill battle, and you heard complaints from them yesterday that the media was against them and that they were really up against a candidate and a campaign that was waging a nasty, negative race and harnessing some of the worse impulses of voters. That was something, obviously, Kellyanne Conway and the Trump folks took real issue with.

I think, really to the point, that shows how much work there is yet to do to try to hit this note of unification that Trump gave a nod to at his rally. And I mean, it's really on him at this point to try to set the tone and set an example that will try to bring some of these factions together right now.

COSTELLO: But here's what I wonder. Is it really up to Mr. Trump because Steve Bannon, he was supposed to be at that Harvard event too. He is the guy that, some people say, is racist. In fact, there were students outside protesting Steve Bannon's presence, except Steve Bannon canceled yesterday and did not give a reason why. Why wasn't he there? And I know it's just speculation on your part. And, two, should he have been there just to, like, be out in the open?

BASH: You know, you can argue it both ways. One, you can argue that he should be there because it's much easier to demonize somebody when you don't know anything about them and you rarely hear or the only thing that you know about them is what you hear --

COSTELLO: But he's kind of gone underground.

BASH: -- is what you hear about them, not hear from them. And the things that we've heard from him in public are, for the most part, from the time when he ran Breitbart. So we haven't heard from him. And I think that he would do himself a big service by coming out in public and putting a third dimension on this two-dimensional character that people have created about him. Having said that, I also kind of get the idea of him not wanting to go because, if he went, that would be the whole story. You know, the story would be him, and the story would be the protest of him.

JOHNSON: Yes.

COSTELLO: But right at the moment, isn't the story him? I mean as far as --

JOHNSON: And legitimately so. Here's the thing.

COSTELLO: -- as far as the disunity in the country.

BASH: Yes. A part of it, yes.

JOHNSON: Here's the thing. I run a restaurateur, I'm a restauranteur. If I run a bank, I'm a banker. If I run a White nationalist site, I'm a White nationalist. OK? Steve Bannon has a lot to answer for. He is the senior adviser to the President of the United States. He has a website that terrorists, White nationalist terrorists, consider to be their home base, consider to be their personal Bible. He has put people who have that belief system on display on that Web site. So he has a lot to answer for, if he's supposed to be serving me, right?

I'm an American citizen. If he's supposed to be serving me, I have every right to expect him to sit down and answer questions. That's pretty reasonable.

COSTELLO: Well, Matea, in fairness, he has given print interviews, right? And in those print interviews, he says he is not a White nationalist. He's a nationalist and there's a difference. That's what he said, Matea.

GOLD: Well, you know, we did a long profile about Bannon, who actually declined to talk to "The Post." He said he was too busy. But I think what's interesting, if you look at his remarks over time when he's pressed about the fact that he called Breitbart a platform for the alt-right and when he's been pressed about the White nationalist who are attracted to his movement, you know, his answer, time and time again, was sort of dismissive, that these elements of this movement will "wash out" was a term he used once in 2014. That these things sort of fade away over time.

[09:15:03] So I think there were a lot of questions about how strongly he denounces some of the people who are coming to this discussion with a lot of hate and racism. BASH: But I go back to what you said, it does start at the top. It's

about Donald Trump, the former candidate, now president-elect, soon to be one of only 45 people who have been in this job, and so, he started last night. I think he should get props where he can.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: He did denounce hate speech.

BASH: He denounced hate speech. He didn't do it on his Twitter field. He read a teleprompter. I'm totally with you. I can feel you over here, I get it. I get it.

It would be a very different thing if he used the impulses that he used constantly on Twitter to do that on Twitter. Baby steps, though. We started it last night.

COSTELLO: Baby steps. And he's at rally with his core supporters.

JASON JOHNSON, THEROOT.COM: I don't believe him. Look, here's the thing, I don't give president credit for doing their job, right? It was Barack Obama's job to bring people together. It was George Bush's job to bring people together.

And I'll say this very quickly about Donald Trump and the expectations. So, for example, like Carrier, I think it's great that he kept those jobs there, but if Donald Trump wants to fulfill his campaign promises, why didn't he bring back the manufacturing jobs from his own companies abroad. That will also in all these conflicts of interests. That's what I want to see.

I want to see a president who fulfills the promises that he made and that is in his power. So, rather than bullying a company in Carrier, and having the taxpayers of Indiana pay for it, bring back your own businesses. And then you'll make America great.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Dana Bash, Jason Johnson, Matea Gold, thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM: they don't call his Mad Dog Mattis for nothing. A closer look at Donald Trump's pick for secretary of defense, and a firsthand account of someone who served with him, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:51] COSTELLO: Donald Trump breaks this news and announces his pick for secretary of defense. He is retired Marine Corps General James Mattis. Mattis' nickname is "Mad Dog," a name that stuck after the battle of Fallujah. His military call sign, chaos.

Here is Mattis in his own words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JAMES MATTIS, U.S. MARINE CORPS (RET): You must keep improving. If you make that decision that you must improve, if you look at every week in the Marine Corps, as your last week of peace and you must be better at the end of this week as a war fighter, then you will push yourself on your three mile run down to 18 minutes, and you'll accept no excuses. You'll push yourself on 21 pull-ups and you'll accept no excuses. You'll push yourself to read the commandant's reading list. You'll push yourself that when things are going tough in the field, you keep your spirit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. So, those who know Mattis described him as a skilled, focused and deliberate leader. He's also known for his tough talk. In 2013, Mattis told "USA Today", quote, "There was always a sense that we had to put things into words that would touch our troops' hearts, not just their heads."

With me now, retired Army Colonel Peter Mansoor. He's a former aide to General David Petraeus. He knows General Mattis through his work at the Hoover Institute.

I'm also joined by retired Major General Spider Marks. He served with General Mattis in 2003 during the invasion of Iraq.

Welcome to both of you.

MAJ. GEN. SPIDER MARKS (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thanks, Carol.

COL. PETER MANSOOR (RET), U.S. ARMY: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you here.

So, General Marks, I'll start with you. Mr. Trump says Mattis is the closest thing to George Patton as we can get. You served with Mattis, and, by the way, George Patton's nickname was Old Blood and Guts.

So, is Mattis like George Patton?

MARKS: I would say there are some extreme similarities here, primarily because what Patton -- you know, the image of Patton -- excuse me, the image of Patton is an extremely focused leader who abided no nonsense and was incredibly focused. What you didn't see with Patton was the fact that he was immensely gifted, was deeply read, was schooled in the art of tactics as well as strategy, so this was a brilliant man who worked very, very heart at his craft and how it fit within those elements of power.

Jim Mattis is not dissimilar from that at all. Very dedicated, very focused, and the smartest man in the room.

COSTELLO: OK. So, Colonel Mansoor, Mattis actually has a couple of nicknames, Mad Dog among them. He also has a nickname of Warrior Monk. But he also has a scholarly reputation.

So, which is he?

MANSOOR: He's both. Like Patton, he's an exceptional war fighter. Mattis served in both Afghanistan and Iraq, in war fighting positions as a general officer, but he carried around him throughout his career, a library of around 10,000 books and has read most of them. He is deeply read, very gifted, and intellectually brilliant, and a

good pick to lead the Department of Defense.

COSTELLO: So, General, going back to what you say is Mattis's no holds barred tough talk, right? The author Thomas Ricks wrote in his book "Fiasco" that Mattis once told a group of Iraqis after the invasion, quote, "I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery, but m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes, if you F with me, I will kill you all."

MARKS: Very clear message.

COSTELLO: Very clear message, right?

MARKS: Yes, as we say in the military, clearer message to follow.

Look, you can't get much more focused and aligned than that, which clearly is the point. Look, you want to have an end result. What Jim Mattis brings to the table is this, this gift, which he has acquired. It's not something that was given to him. He's acquired this over incredible hard work, that he can envision the end state needs to look like and then begin the deliberate process of figuring how you align everything in order to achieve that.

In other words, most folks in the room are trying to figure out what the next step is going to be, Jim Mattis is already intellectually leapt across all of those, and said, this is what we're going to try to achieve.

[09:25:02] Now, help me, let's get some buy in and help me achieve that together.

Jim is team builder of the first order.

COSTELLO: OK. So, many Americans are afraid that since Donald Trump has no experience militarily, that somehow we'll be sucked into a bigger war than we're already involved in now, because we're involved in many different wars, right?

So, Colonel, are those fears just?

MANSOOR: Well, I think it's a misnomer that because someone has served in the military he'll be more war-like. In fact, there is no one is less war-like than people who have actually seen the elephant in combat.

I think General Mattis will be a reasoned voice of caution, but he's also someone who understands the country's interests and he will be much more forceful in advocating with the president, for instance, to push back against Iranian moves around the Middle East, for instance.

So, I think that having someone like General Mattis who strategically competent in the Department of Defense is really important. Now, he'll need to be paired with a deputy who knows the Pentagon better than he does, because he's only had I think one tour in the Pentagon. But I think it will be a good combination if they find the right person.

COSTELLO: And, you know, Mattis is, he's widely admired by both Republicans and Democrats, but it may not be an easy sail for him to be confirmed. In order to be confirmed, as you well know, Mattis will need a congressional waiver, because the law requires military officers be separated from the service for seven years.

Democratic Senator Kristin Gillibrand says he will oppose that waiver, because, quote, "civilian control of our military is a fundamental principle of American democracy."

So, General Marks, what would be your response to Gillibrand?

MARKS: Well, I think she's got a legitimate concern and she certainly will voice that.

I don't see the nomination of General Mattis and the fact he's only been retired now three-plus years as the limiting factor. I think we need to put on the table that he is beyond competent. He not only understands what the Department of Defense is trying to achieve, the role of the secretary of defense, which includes command and control over operational units, unlike the chairman, and oh, by the way, he knows the chairman exceptionally well, Joe Dunford and Jim Mattis served together on multiple occasions. So, you'll have some immense synergies.

I don't think that will be the concern about his time out of service is a primary concern. I think, Carol, also what really needs to come up in the it discussion is that Jim Mattis understands that unilateral actions both in terms of alliance building and going after what we would called those shared enemies and challenges will require a greater reach across, and an inclusion of a whole bunch of concerned parties.

So, that means really working hard on our alliances. You know, the Iran nuclear deal is not the best. But he also realizes unilateral action on the part of United States will disenfranchise too many partners. That's not a good thing.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to end it there. Colonel Peter Mansoor, General Spider Marks, thanks to both of you.

Still to come on the NEWSROOM: Trump launches his thank you tour. But is his message doing enough to bring Americans together?