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Heated debate between Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway and Clinton's chief Jennifer Palmieri; Donald Trump still hitting Hillary Clinton in his "thank you" speech; A potential mistrial for the case against Patrolman Michael Slager; Aired 2:00-2:30p ET

Aired December 02, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, SITUATION ROOM: Tune in to the "SITUATION ROOM." For our international viewers, "AMANPOUR" is next. For viewers of North America "NEWSROOM" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

[14:00:14] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Hi, there. Thank you for being with me on this Friday, I'm Brooke Baldwin. You are watching CNN. And we are watching there those gold elevators inside the lobby of Trump tower where day by day, meeting by meeting a new presidency, a new administration is taking shape.

Today, the president-elect has welcomed a parade of potential advisers and cabinet appointees. According to our sources telling CNN, John Bolton is being indeed being considered for secretary of state. Mr. Trump is also meeting with a Democrat today, North Dakota senator Heidi Heitkamp. All of these happening on the hills of Trump's victory lap in Cincinnati.

The president-elect resurrecting some of his campaign rhetoric saying quote "we had a lot of money fighting Hillary." And in the thick of that speech making one major announcement, that was supposed to wait for a couple days, Donald Trump wants retired Marine Corps general James Mattis to serve as his secretary of defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are going to appoint mad dog Mattis as our secretary of defense. But we are not announcing it until Monday so don't tell anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Well, the secret is out, so now we know.

Jessica Schneider is standing by for us. She is outside of Trump tower.

So we talked about some of these individuals as potential picks. What about policy announcement, Jessica? Did Trump make any policy announcements today?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Brooke, this was all really reminiscing of candidate Trump where he riffed on a multitude of subjects really going in every which direction. It was part teleprompter, part off the cuff. But you know, really, it was all signature Donald Trump. And he honed in on his message that he honed in throughout the campaign on putting America first. He says he wants to put America first when it comes to American workers cutting taxes, also putting America first when it comes to immigration, suspending immigration from countries he says are compromise by terror.

But also talking about a number of subjects as he tend to do in these large rallies where he sometimes does go off the prompter. He even lashed out at the media, of course, calling it quote "the dishonest media." He even took a few jabs at Ohio governor John Kasich saying, of course, John Kasich not endorsing Donald Trump during the campaign but Donald Trump did say John Kasich called him afterwards, after the election to congratulate him.

And Donald Trump also talking about unity, talking about this country coming together and really working together to enact a lot of his policy proposals.

So really, it was classic Donald Trump in that big rally that we know that he feeds off of, of course, though, today is it back to business at Trump tower but Donald Trump's really hop scotching through two different states yesterday talking about his platforms, talking about his priorities as he gets ready to assume the presidency - Brooke.

BALDWIN: Jessica Schneider, thank you so much.

Forty nine days to go, I believe it is, until inauguration day. So lots more to talk about here.

While Trump is thanking those voters in Ohio. The people behind his campaign and also Hillary Clinton's campaign, another primary rivals, were revealing their true feelings about what exactly led to Mr. Trump's stunning upset.

Since 1972, just a little background for you, the Harvard Institute of politics has hosted a forum where top campaign aides, meet for essentially post-mortem discussion. You know, discussing what went so right and depending on your camp what went so wrong. This is supposed to be an educational initiative. It's also an opportunity for the campaigns to show respect for the process and for the outcome. But this year it was kind of bitter and heated.

Let me play this for you. This is an exchange between Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway and Clinton's chief Jennifer Palmieri.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JENNIFER PALMIERI, HILLARY CLINTON'S DIRECTOR FOR COMMUNICATIONS: If providing a platform for supremacists makes me brilliant tactician, I am glad to have lost. I would rather lose than win the way you guys did.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISOR/GOP POLLSTER: Do you think I ran a campaign where white supremacists had a platform. You are going to look me in the face and tell me?

PALMIERI: You did. You did, Kellyanne.

Conway: And that's how you lost?

PALMIERI: It did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.

CONWAY: Do you think you could have had a message for the white working class voters? Do you think this woman who has nothing in common with anybody --?

PALMIERI: I'm not saying why you won, but that's the campaign.

CONWAY: We flipped over 200 counties that President Obama won and Donald Trump just won. You think that's because of what you just said, or because people aren't ready for a woman president? Really?

How about it is Hillary Clinton? She doesn't connect with people. How about they have nothing in common with her. Guys I can tell you're angry but wow. I mean, hashtag he's your president. How's that?

PALMIERI: Hashtag, if he's going to be my president then he needs to show me that white supremacy is not acceptable steps from the oval office.

CONWAY: In million times and you know it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[14:05:02] BALDWIN: That was a piece of it. Let's talk more about all of this with Susan Page. She is Washington bureau chief for "USA Today," was in the room. CNN political commentator Van Jones with us who used to work in the Obama White House. Barry Bennett, the former campaign manager for Dr. Ben Carson, Trump supporter and Trump biographer Michael D'Antonio.

So welcome to all of you.

And Susan Page, you were there in Cambridge through all of that. Can you just set the scene for me and tell me when it took a turn?

SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, USA TODAY: You know, you know that very last quote that was attributed to Jennifer Palmieri was actually said by Karen Finney. At that point other very hard, I'm sure, to figure out who's talking in those conversations. But that was a quote by Karen Finney, not Jennifer Palmieri there talking about hashtag, I don't want a president who doesn't reach out to different groups.

You know, I have gone to this forum before and it's usually - it is not that it's so friendly usually because these are partisans but it's usually pretty civil and very respectful and this was fierce. This was much like the campaign that we have just seen. It was bitter and divided and you get the feeling that it's not over yet.

BALDWIN: What to you -- and then I want to move on to folks who see things differently, though - I mean, what to you was the most, I don't know if it's inflammatory, rude, or just befuddling thing you heard in all of that.

PAGE: Well, they have totally different perspectives, I think, on why -- what happened in this campaign. I mean, they have, in some ways, they have the same perspective. Both agreed it was a change election and that was a big force. But the reasons for Trump's rise, the reasons for Hillary Clinton's problems in losing an election that I think most of the people in that room thought she was probably going to win. Very different perspective in that. And the most inflamed moment was the one you just played when they talked about whether Steve Bannon and the Trump campaign provided a platform for the alt- right, for white supremacists and anti-Semitics to be energized and feel empowered in this campaign. That was the most angry divide I think between the two sides.

BALDWIN: All right. Let me turn to Van Jones who - just watching on the "the View," yesterday. I know how you feel about Steve Bannon. You did not hold back. So I want you to just weigh in on the white supremacist piece of the conversation, but I think also on the flip side when you heard Kellyanne Conway over and over saying why can't you acknowledge that Hillary Clinton was a just bad candidate.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look. I have been pretty clear throughout the whole -- I think both political parties right now are in real trouble and neither wants to acknowledge the challenges.

It is in fact true that Democrats believe that we are the champion of the working class. It's also true we have a lot of elitist, a lot of highly educated people who look down their noses as a red state voters and it shows. So Democrats had to deal with our elitism.

It's also true the Republican Party sees itself as the party of color blind meritocracy, and that's beautiful. But they have opened the back door and some serious bigots have come in and have not been thrown out. The alt-right, the white nationalists. Both parties, therefore have a problem because neither party seems to respect all the voters. That's the problem for America. And what you have right now and say we are not elitists, we don't have any racists, it is sound stupid because everybody watching this knows that both parties both and candidates were flawed.

BALDWIN: Barry Bennett, how do you see it listening to Van and hearing all this for yourself?

BARRY BENNETT, TRUMP SUPPORTER: You know, I was in Cambridge as well and it was largely -- I spent a lot of time with my Democratic counterparts and we had a good time exchanging information. But, you know, if people believe that white supremacists are part of the Republican party, now, let me go ahead and boldly speak for the entire Republican party, they are not welcome here. You know, that's just - this is the notion. Hillary Clinton didn't lose because of white supremacist. I don't understand that logic. I mean, she lost because she couldn't connect with people. She made a very bad mistake about putting the server in her house and then not --

(CROSSTALK)

BENNETT: Yes, I mean. But you know, that was - I understand they don't like the Comey letter and, you know, I can agree with them except it was all self-inflicted. You know, if they had turned over the laptop, then it wouldn't happened but they didn't.

BALDWIN: Self-inflicted, Van?

JONES: Well look. First of all, I just want to say I really appreciate what you just said that they are not welcome. And I think that in a year - look, we live in our different bubbles. In a year where you had -- well 18 months you had, you know, nine African- Americans killed by a white supremacist, where Trump has been retweeting white supremacists, it is a real wound for us. And so we just want people to acknowledge that's a problem and do what you just said.

I think the reason that liberals are shocked is because for us any kind of bigoted statement is automatically disqualifying. And so we feel that anybody who can overlook that must have some bias. I think liberals are wrong on this point. I think there are some Trump voters who saw those comments as distasteful but not disqualifying and they held their nose and voted and they don't -- they shouldn't be lumped in with the alt-right. But the fact that we are having to parse through the alt-right over here and elitism over there shows how both parties are in real trouble as far as I'm concerned.

[14:10:22] BALDWIN: Well, and also who sets the tone and who should really be delivering the message, I think Barry just did, of course, who is the next president of the United States.

So let me just get there, Michael, I want you to weigh in because a huge piece of this is the beginning of his thank you tour, right. And watching him - I mean, we watched him yesterday during the show there in Indianapolis which is the first time we really heard from Mr. Trump in that way in months. And so now we heard from him again from Cincinnati. Let me just play a clip.

We don't have any sound from Trump last night? OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can tell you what he said.

BALDWIN: Let's all paraphrase.

Michael D'Antonio, you know, to you essentially, you know, there was a lot. It was everything from, you know, he is obviously grateful to win. Democrats would say he was gloating a bit in talking about Hillary Clinton. There was the lock them up - I know. I see you Van. You know, the lock them up chant. Thousands of people who packed into this arena, essentially. And it was a wide ranging between, you know, on teleprompter and off. Michael D'Antonio, I mean, this is vintage Trump. Is this the Trump that we will see for the next four years?

MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, DONALD TRUMP BIOGRAPHER: Well, I think it very much is. And this is the thing that we should really be focusing on is not the bitterness at that Harvard meeting. Those people will be fighting for a long time. It's really the wound that is opened in our body politic and how divided the country is. And I have always been concerned that president-elect Trump doesn't have what it takes to go out into the country, to be generous, to show some grace and help us heal and he is doing the opposite so far. You know, someone could get to him. I hope someone does get to him and explain that there's a role for the president to play here and that it's not about lock her up or reprising his campaign greatest hits. You know, there's a job to be done here. It's a very serious job but it needs to be done with deliberate care and that's not what's happening right now.

BALDWIN: I'm now being told - before Barry, before you jump in, I think we should give also Donald Trump credit for especially seeing him in Indianapolis yesterday and what he did, you know, when you say no grace. I think that was incredibly gracious. But I hear your point, on your perspective. We do now magically have the sound from Trump last night. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We spend too much time focusing on what divides us. Now is the time to embrace the one thing that truly unites us. You know what that is? America. America. Although we did have a lot of fun fighting Hillary, didn't we? Right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Barry Bennett, my question to you is this. You know, it's wonderful, the message of unity, but when you have an audience cheering "lock her up," I mean, he has won, OK? You know, saying what he did and then the fist pump in the end, does that say unity to you?

BENNETT: Well, remember, those words didn't come out of his mouth. Those words came out of about 15,000 Americans.

BALDWIN: Could she have shut it down, though?

BENNETT: Well, I mean, how do you shut down that? I don't think that's his responsibility, to tell you the truth.

Now, you know, he has already said that he is not going to appoint a special prosecutor to look into her server, the lies that he has told about her server. I mean, that's over. The campaign has pass. But there are plenty of problems. Van and I could work every day for the rest of the year trying to solve these problems and make a dent in them.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Michael, I think you're on Skype so it's tricky to jump in. Go ahead.

D'ANTONIO: I think if we want to see how to shut something down we can recall President Obama shutting down the hecklers who were going after a veteran who stood up to talk at one of his rallies. A president or president-elect has to take command of a room like that and demonstrate the true spirit that Trump was attempting, I guess, to bring to the moment which is not about lock her up. And it is -- even if he has said well, I'm not going to prosecute her, being in the middle of that arena was the moment. And Donald lost the chance to show us he was bigger than that moment.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Van.

JONES: Brooke, Donald Trump never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity when it comes to building real unity. That would have been a perfect moment for him to say, you know what? We are not doing that. We are going to move forward. And I think he actually would have gotten real applause for doing that.

He has a following that will follow him anywhere. I think he needs to make sure that he is using that in the right way. There are two Donald Trumps. There is teleprompter Donald Trump and then there is terrible Donald Trump. And wherever he comes off that teleprompter where somebody wrote something good for him and he starts riffing, somebody is going to get insulted. And you he has got to stop doing that. He is the president-elect.

[14:15:26] BALDWIN: All right. Appreciate all of you. We have to go but there will be more from the thank you tour, perhaps who knows who we'll see.

Michael and Barry, and Van and Susan, I appreciate all your vices very much.

Coming up here, though, the president-elect's pick for secretary of defense who exactly is general James Mattis, also known as Mad Dog in the warrior monk. Where he stands on foreign policy and some of his eye-popping quotes. We will talk to a marine who served three deployments under the general and is a big, big fan.

Also ahead, we are following breaking news out of North Charleston where police officer Michael Slager is facing charges in the murder of Walter Scott. Developments right now in the courtroom.

We are back in a moment. This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:20:06] BALDWIN: All right, breaking news here out of North Charleston. You know, a former police officer by the named of Michael Slager has been on trial for murder in the shooting death of Walter Scott. The jury has been deliberating for multiple days, 12-plus hours. The jury apparently has just returned to the courtroom. They had a question. Let me be just be precise in my language. That they came back into the court to ask a question they simply cannot agree. I want to play the sound from the judge addressing the court moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, you have stated that you have been unable to reach a verdict in this case. As I instructed you earlier, the verdict of the jury must be unanimous. Now, when a matter is in dispute, it isn't always easy for even two people to agree. So when 12 people must agree, it becomes even more difficult.

In most cases, absolute certainty cannot be reached or expected. However, you have a duty. You have a duty to make every reasonable every day to reach a unanimous verdict. In doing so, you should consult with one another, express your own views and listen to the opinions of your fellow jurors. Tell each other how you feel and why you feel that way. Discuss your differences with an open mind.

Although the verdict of the jury must be unanimous, every one of you has the right to your own opinion. The verdict you agree to must be your own verdict, the result of your own convictions, and you should not give up your firmly held beliefs merely to be in agreement with your fellow jurors. The majority should consider the minority's position. And minority should consider the majority's position.

You should carefully consider and respect the pinions of each other and re-evaluate your position for reasonableness, correctness and impartiality. You must lay aside all outside matters and reexamine the questions before you based on the law and the evidence in this case. If you do not agree on a verdict, I must declare a mistrial. In that case, it does not mean that anybody wins, it just means that at some future time I will try this case with some other jury sitting where you now sit. The same participants will come and the same lawyers will likely ask basically the same questions and get basically the same answers and will go through this whole process again.

You were selected in the same manner and from the same source any future jury will be and there is no reason for me to suppose that the case will ever be submitted to 12 more intelligence, conscientious and competent jurors than you for the more clear evidence will be produced on one side or the other.

I therefore ask that you return to your deliberations, if will.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: OK. So let's walk through exactly what we heard and the significance here. I have Paul Callan, he is on the phone, CNN legal analyst. Also Danny Cevallos who was just seated and Boris Sanchez has been following all of this for us as well there in North Charleston.

Paul Callan, let me just begin with you, just because I know you were listening this from the very beginning. What was the judge doing there?

[14:25:02] PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST (on the phone): Well, the judge was giving what is called federal system an Allen charge, sometimes it's called the dynamite charge. And it's a charge that the judge always gives when a jury reports that they are deadlocked. Obviously after a lengthy controversial trial we don't want to have to start over again. So this is the instruction -- go back out and make another serious effort at reaching a verdict. Honor each other's views, listen to the minority, listen to the majority but get back to work another shot. And it's almost always given when that first note comes in saying we're deadlocked. BALDWIN: WE know they asked the question the night before what's the

difference between fear and passion. You have these 12 jurors, Danny Cevallos, you know, this South Carolina patrolman charged with murder. What are they struggling with?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: They are struggling with a couple different things. First is the definition of murder in South Carolina which doesn't always require a specific spent two "I want to kill that person." If you have some highly reckless behavior, some malignant heart, that can rise to the level of murder. They probably also grappling with the state's definition of voluntary manslaughter which is a killing committed under extreme provocation. And I can imagine they are debating in the jury room about whether or not this is something that happened under extreme provocation. You just see the video there of the decedent running away and I think they're battling with that. I think that because Slager testified in his defense, Slager did a very good job with the facts that he had which are generally bad, creating an image of imminent fear of immediate harm in the minds of the jury.

He spoke in the present tense. I'm standing there. I'm thinking he's going to turn around. He was well coached. And remember police officers are the best testifying witnesses because they do it every day in court just on the other side.

BALDWIN: Let's take five steps back for all of you joining us here. We are getting the latest twist in this murder trial involving a South Carolina patrolman, Michael Slager in regard to the death of Walter Scott. It was something we covered extensively because of the cell phone that was released because of a passer-by during the shooting.

Boris Sanchez, let me go to you. And if you can, remind us. I mean, this was he was pulled over all because of a broken taillight and it just evolved into his death.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Brooke. And then what happened from there is really the most contentious point of this entire trial. The police officer says that there was a scuffle. And during that scuffle Walter Scott grabbed ahold of his taser and aimed it at him and in the moments after that his training kicked in and that's when he opened fire.

The prosecution, rather, says that that is not precisely what happened that Walter Scott was able to get a significant distance away. They have made it a point to point several times in this case to point out that Walter Scott was about 18 feet away when Michael Slager opened fire.

You mentioned the questions that they had yesterday about fear and passion. Yesterday they also had a request from the judge for two transcripts, first the transcript of Michael Slager's testimony, and then the transcript of Angela Peterson's testimony. She was the lead investigator in the case that said on the stand that the story that she got from Michael Slager when she interviewed him was not what she saw on the video. That there were inaccuracies, inconsistencies with his story. The defense has gone on to say those inconsistencies were partly due

to the fact that he just gone through something traumatic. That his memory was not in perfect shape because he was still in shock.

Fast forward to today just a few moments ago. It was interesting the way this came down. First at 1:00 pm, we get those request from the jury asking for fading Santana's testimony, the witness that caught the last of the shuffle on video. Then there is 12 minutes later there's the note from the jury saying it is clear the jurors will not be able to reach a consensus. The judge then came back, asked the jury to come out and asked them if having Fayden Santana's testimony might sway anyone. It took two minutes, maybe three minutes for the jury to come back out and say "if we listen to this it will not change."

So obviously, a very heated debate during deliberations. The judge pulling the Allen charge now as it's called trying to force these jurors to deliberate. And as he said, you have a duty to reach a verdict. Essentially saying that if this is a mistrial, if it's retried you're going to get the same questions from the same attorneys, potentially the same answers and you will end up with another 12 be in another heated debate about the facts of this case so it's not as if they will be able to reach a decision themselves. That's what the judge wants from them in this case, Brooke.

[14:30:00] BALDWIN: All right. Keep us apprised, of course, if the jurors have more questions today. We'll stay in close contact with you.

Boris Sanchez, thank you so much here as this story I know absolutely grips that community there in North Charleston and really the nation.

Paul and Danny, thank you as well.

Quick break. We will be right back.

END