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Honoring Dead in San Bernardino Attack; Obama Leaves Strong Job Growth, Economy; Film Examines Rise and Fall if Sweat Lodge Guru. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 02, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Today marks a somber anniversary. Last December 2 a husband and wife killed 14 people and injured 21 others. The couple opening fire during a holiday party in San Bernardino, California. Investigators believe the attackers were inspired by extremist ideology and sympathized with ISIS. The suspects fled the scene then were killed in a shootout with police.

I was on the air, I'll never forget the day a year ago, when the news broke. It was the latest in a series of mass shootings that I've had to unfortunately relay on live television. An op-ed and in part I wrote this "just like that it's my job to remain calm even though deep down just like you I am furious, furious for the innocent victims who are being targeted, furious this has happened again, furious that nothing seems to be stopping him."

CNN's Stephanie Elam talked to survivors of the shooting who continued to struggle with their recovery one year later.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When you look back to that day, what is the biggest memory that you have?

JULIE PAEZ, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: It was a good day to begin with. It was a good day. And I think just lying there and wondering if this was it. Is this how my life has ended?

ELAM: And in that moment, you had the presence of mind to text your family?

PAEZ: I did. Because I thought if this is the end I want to say at least I love them. I just remember there thinking is this how my life is going to end?

ELAM: Right before the shooting started you had gone to the restroom.

PAEZ: Two minutes before they walked in.

ELAM: And what do you remember doing? What was your first thought? What did you do to save yourself?

SALLY CARDINALE, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: The first thought it wasn't a shooting, that a pipe broke. It wasn't until there was someone shot in front of the bathroom door when I opened it that I knew there was a shooter and we all ran into stalls and four of us just ended in one stall hugging on top of the toilet seat so our foot wouldn't show. I remember thinking we had to be quiet. I needed to get ahold of 911, I needed to call my husband. I need people to know what was happening. And then I just kind of -- I thought about my kids, thought about my husband and I kind of resigned to the fact that this was it.

ELAM: You saw the shooter come in. You saw the gun but it didn't compute in that instant, right?

HAL HOUSER, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: Right. Because I don't have an AR-15. How often do you see a man in black with a machine gun coming into your office?

ELAM: When he could not reload, that's when you took a moment to get out?

HOUSER: Yes, yes. When my brain got back down to know this isn't right, even if it is an active terror thing, you should run so as soon as he dropped his first clip I ran to a closet that was full of tables, oh, my god. Finally ran to the other door, got out, went and hid in a place in break room and we're barricading ourselves against the door to prevent them from coming in and I'm looking at bullet holes through the door and that's when the reality hit.

ELAM: Are any of you angry?

CARDINALE: There's two traumas we have. The trauma of the day and the trauma of the fight we have with our employer. And I feel like the trauma -- the secondary trauma with our employer has overshadowed the first one and I also feel like he didn't come in to shoot me or he didn't come in there to shoot Julie or Hal, he had some mental health issues and some maybe religious ideologies but it wasn't for us personally, it wasn't personal. He was trying to make a statement. Where with our employer I feel like it's personal.

[15:35:00] They are supposed to protect us.

ELAM: Do you operate differently? Do you go into a room and make sure you can see the entrances and exits?

HOUSER: Always. Yes, my cubicle has my back facing everybody and that drives me nuts. So --

ELAM: Any room, any restaurant you go into you look for the exits, you look for escape routes.

CARDINALE: Always. What would you do in that situation? I know I went to a holiday party with my husband right after, like I think it was on the 12th and I remember thinking if someone comes in here can I flip up the tables? If I flip up the table, will the bullets be able to get through the table? Will it help me? Can I make it to the door? There's a whole assessment. When I went back to work I remember every time I went to the bathroom I pictured tiles shooting off the wall.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BALDWIN: Stephanie Elam, thank you so much for following up with them. We covered it as breaking news, not knowing the faces and the lives and the details. What was your biggest take away?

ELAM: Julie, the woman with the dark hair, her pelvic bone was shattered and she's still dealing with problems with her pelvic bone is not fusing back together and it grows into her bladder. She's in pain all the time but she doesn't want to talk about it because she says there were 14 people who lost their lives, I will take having this pain any day over that situation.

So, she doesn't want to talk about it or complain about it and then also the other two, take a listen to Sally and Hal, they have PTSD, they don't have physical injuries but they're reeling from it. Part of the issue they feel is they're not getting the medical support they need because it's not something that anyone knows how to cover. It's not -- there is things happening if you get injured but nothing if there's a terrorist attack at the place of employment and so that's something you don't take into account when you look at these stories and look at a year later is how they approach the world every day. Every day there's something to be fearful from, something that can make them cry, something that can trigger a memory and it happens all the time for these people.

BALDWIN: Incredibly strong of them to sit with you and share, thank you for listening. Stephanie Elam, appreciate that.

Straight ahead, will Donald Trump be commander in chief or CEO in chief. House Speaker Paul Ryan answered that very question next. We'll talk to Michael Smerconish. Stay with me.

[15:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you told him being President is not being CEO of the United States? That the Congress is going to have say?

PAUL RYAN, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Oh, we've talked about that extensively. We've talked about the constitution, article 1 of the constitution, the separation of powers. He feels very strongly, actually, that under President Obama's watch he stripped a lot of power away from the constitution, away from the legislative branch of government and we want to reset the balance of power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's start our conversation with Michael Smerconish. Michael Smerconish host of "Smerconish" on CNN. Happy Friday to you, my friend. I should preface, that was a clip, an excerpt from the "60 minutes" that will air on Sunday night. I love the question from Scott Pelley and it got me thinking about, you know, we watched Trump at Carrier in Indianapolis right around this time yesterday and here he was, you know, like a CEO picking up the phone and calling a CEO and asking him to save some jobs, what did you make of Paul Ryan's response? MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST: I made of it that the marriage is

coming together in a way that will satisfy both Donald Trump and the Republican leaders in the house and Senate. In other words, Brooke, he campaigned as a manager, he was never detail oriented. You go back and think about those debates, he never offered specifics relative to policy he always spoke in themes much like Roger Ailes had advised Ronald Reagan to do in 1984. That was the play book they utilized and I think that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell will be thrilled if the details are left to them in their representative houses.

BALDWIN: Quickly, though, on Carrier watched yesterday and the details we learned of this phone call do you think -- I mean, give credit where credit is due with what the President-elect was able to pull off but did he set a tough precedent?

SMERCONISH: So, like you I'm thrilled that thousand folks, especially in the midst of the holiday season, won't be out of work where that seemingly were about to lose their jobs to Mexico. Interestingly, today on the radio I had an extensive conversation, people calling from all across the country who wanted to delve more deeply and, a, question the cost, but question whether there was allowing the free market to function.

This seemed like picking winners and losers and many raised the issue of whether future companies will now try to rattle the cage of the government and say we want the Carrier treatment and all of a sudden look for payouts that otherwise would not have existed. I found it interesting there was a split of opinion where I would have thought people would have said this is wonderful.

BALDWIN: It is interesting and on jobs news, let me relay to everyone the numbers announced this morning. The unemployment rate in this country, you see the numbers red on your screen, it's now at 4.6 percent, the lowest point in nine years. How many jobs were created? Christine Romans who said well, it's great unless you work in a factory. And when you think back to eight years ago, when then President-elect Obama came into office, he was in economic quicksand and now you look at President-elect Trump, engine fairly full steam ahead.

[15:45:00] SMERCONISH: I think if you had said to Mitt Romney in 2012 you can be elected and here will be your score card at the end of four years and then talk about the Dow, talk about unemployment, talk about gas price, talk about any number of metrics, he probably would have said well that would be great and I would be judged as having a successful record.

But like everything else with regard to President Obama, those who are for him look at the numbers and say he deserves the credit and those who are not necessarily for him look at the numbers and say he's not deserving, a President doesn't command where the Dow ends up or they'll say so many have left the job hunt that the unemployment rate is artificial. So, it's just interesting people suit up in their usual jerseys. I think by an honest appraisal, we're headed in the right direction. Maybe not as fast as folks would like. BALDWIN: Yes, but in the right direction. We'll leave it on a

positive note. Smerconish, watch him 9:00 eastern on CNN. Thank you as always for hanging out on Friday.

Coming up, a brand-new CNN film exploring the dramatic rise and fall of self-help guru James Arthur Ray. Remember the story about the sweat lodge, one of Ray's clients who was inside on that fateful day joins me live next.

[15:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Tomorrow night CNN Films brings us it's called "Enlighten Us" the story of the rise and fall of James Arthur Ray, the self-help guru convicted of negligent homicide. His clients died after spending two hours in the Arizona sweat lodge. It capped a five-day conference run designed to push people beyond their limits, but that day, according to prosecutors, Ray went too far. Here's a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES ARTHUR RAY, SELF HELP GURU: Oh, yes! Kate.

LAURA TUCKER, FORMER JAMES ARTHUR RAY CLIENT: Hello, this is -- I'm Laura from British Columbia. I've been working on control all week.

RAY: Are you controlling control?

TUCKER: I'm not really sure.

I was there looking for transformation. I was at a point in my life where something needed to change in order for me to move to the next level. RAY: So, what could you do right now just to prove to yourself that

you don't care what anyone in here thinks?

TUCKER: Singing would be a problem.

RAY: Singing would be a problem?

TUCKER: Yes.

RAY: Because you're worried about what other people think about your voice?

TUCKER: Yes.

RAY: So, what song are you going to sing?

TUCKER: "O Canada"?

As the workshop progressed, I could feel my wall coming down. I really did learn how to take my guard down with people.

"O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

Ray: You were awesome. Great job. Hang on a second. Now, is that a breakthrough? If I had asked all a week ago, if you would stand up in front of 300 people and sing "O Canada" would you have told me I was insane?

TUCKER: Yes.

RAY: Yes.

TUCKER: Thanks.

RAY: That's a breakthrough, huh?

TUCKER: Yes.

RAY: Who's next?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Let's go to the woman you just heard there, Laura Tucker joins me live. Laura Tucker, nice to have you on. Can you just explain to us watching -- I mean people pay thousands of dollars to attend this. Why?

[15:55:00] TUCKER: Well, Brooke, thank you for having me on. The reason why I spent or invested the money I did in myself at that time was the idea of taking a different approach to life and having that you approached it actually mattered and has an impact on the people around you.

That's a bit of what the secret did, which is how I first got introduced into James Arthur Ray or self-help in general. Then as things moved forward, you know, James has a big personality, he's very charismatic, the events were a ton of fun, and really what kept me coming back for additional events was the absolutely incredible people that I met every step of the way.

So, you had this community of fabulous people from all over North America and beyond, and at the same time learning a different way to operate, and a different way to look at you ironically with that clip control or lack of control in your own life.

BALDWIN: That was one example, but let's talk about this sweltering lodge. You know, in the middle of the desert where those people died. You saw some of those individuals you were tapping one woman. Can you tell me about that?

TUCKER: Yes. Well, I mean, the sweat lodge was the final two hours of, as you said earlier, a five-day event. My understanding of it was that it was to be a -- either a rebirthing or a way to just go into a common experience and come out of it you, know, in a celebratory manner. Part of the reason why it was so incredibly traumatic was the difference in the expectations of what it was supposed to mean, what it was supposed to be like, at least as I understood it, and what actually happened there. As you mentioned, I was beside Liz Neuman in the sweat lodge, which added layers of complexity to it.

BALDWIN: Just was it worth it? Do you regret it? Has it changed you?

TUCKER: What a question that is. I can never say that anything that cost the lives of three people was worth it, whatever it was. Has it changed me? It's changed me every step of the way. Initially, I mean, the horror of the chaos and the loss and the grief, and the overwhelming, you know, sense of responsibility for having been there and spoken up in the sweat lodge that was a lot to deal with. And in the aftermath the way things played out over the media was extremely challenging for me. It became a very shaming experience for me.

Over the course of the last seven years, even in the two years since I did the interview for the film. That was a pivotal moment for me on this journey, and it showed me that I still had stuff to deal with that I really needed to look into.

BALDWIN: Well will look for your story in this incredible piece. It airs tomorrow night at 8:00 eastern here on CNN. Laura, thank you. We'll be right back.