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Trump Picks General Mattis For Defense Secretary; Former Defense Secretary Live; Trump Picks General Mattis For Defense Secretary; Sen. Gillibrand: I Will Oppose A Waver For Mattis; Gen. Petraeus Potential Candidate For Secretary Of State; Trump's Defense Secretary Pick On War In Syria; Trump & Clinton Aides Clash At Harvard Event; Trump Disses Media, Rivals In Victory Tour Kickoff. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired December 02, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: -- President-elect Donald Trump gets back to transition business after a rousing campaign-style rally.

Trump and Vice President-elect Mike Pence made the first stop on their thank you tour in Cincinnati, Ohio last night. Trump used the rally to tout his victory, bash the news media and double down on campaign promises. He also made major campaign announcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are going to appoint mad dog Mattis as our secretary of defense. But we're not announcing it until Monday so don't tell anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Trump holds another round of transition meetings today in New York City. Among those on the list for his meetings, Georgia Republican senator, David Perdue; retired U.S. Navy Admiral, Jay Cohen; former defense secretary, Robert Gates; Florida's attorney general, Pam Bondi; former U.S. ambassador of the U.N., John Bolton; North Dakota Democratic senator, Heidi Heitkamp; and economic advisor, David Malpass.

Let's get some more on Trump's meetings today, his latest cabinet picks. Our Correspondent Jessica Snyder is outside Trump Tower on Fifth Avenue in New York City for us right now.

Jessica, Trump describes his pick for defense secretary, and I'm quoting him now, "as the closest thing to General George Patton that we have."

General Mattis, as we know, the retired Marine Corps general does have a potential legal hurdle he has to clear, in order to be considered for his nomination.

JESSICA SNYDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You know, Wolf, but Trump's team is saying that they are well on their way to getting a congressional waiver. Trump spokesman, Jason Miller, in fact, this morning saying that Senator John McCain is right now drafting legislation that would get General Mattis around that law that mandates that uniformed officers be out of service at least seven years before taking up a civilian post.

Of course, General Mattis retired in 2013 so not long enough. But the Trump team has expressed confidence that they will get that waiver.

But at least one Democratic senator is promising to put up a fight. In fact, within minutes of Donald Trump making this surprise announcement that he would nominate General Mattis, New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand said she would oppose any waiver.

She says that it is fundamental to American democracy that the military be led by civilians, in saying that any exception to that, she would not support.

So, at least one Democrat speaking out against this waiver. But the Trump team says that they believe it's a lock -- Wolf.

BLITZER: With a Republican majority in the House and in Senate, probably almost certainly is.

Some interesting names on the list of people Trump is meeting with today, Jessica, including a former ambassador, a Democratic congresswoman. What have you learned about those meetings?

SNYDER: Yes. Well, after hopping around to two different states yesterday, Wolf, it is back to business here at Trump Tower.

A few notable meetings this afternoon. Former U.N. ambassador, John Bolton, as well as former defense -- former defense secretary, Robert Gates.

But the meeting drawing the most intrigue, as you mentioned, is North Dakota Senator Heidi Heitkamp. She will be here at Trump Tower a little bit later today.

We actually caught up with her yesterday and she had said that she was a little bit in the dark as to what exactly this meeting would entail. But did add that she is open to discussions with the Trump administration about potentially joining a Trump White House.

Some potential appointments that could -- are thrown out there could be energy secretary as well as interior secretary. But, of course, Heitkamp hails from North Dakota. That red state that Trump won handedly.

Of course, a Democratic senator like Heitkamp is somebody Trump would look to to help pass his agenda. But if she were to join the Trump White House, of course, it would severely handicap Senate Democrats -- Wolf.

BLITZER: The Republican majority would go up by one more, if she were named to the cabinet. All right, thanks very much for that, Jessica.

My next guest brought up a possibility of General Mattis as a pick for secretary of defense on this program just two weeks ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Who would you like to see emerge at secretary of state and secretary of defense?

WILLIAM COHEN, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, THE COHEN GROUP, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Oh, one name I've heard surface would be general over at defense. He would be a great choice. I think general Mattis enjoys -- if he were -- if he's in the consideration, I think he would have wide support on Capitol Hill.

I know him well. He's worked with me, certainly. But he's a scholar and a warrior and he's somebody who would serve this administration very, very well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: William Cohen is back with me today. He is the former U.S. secretary of defense, served under President Bill Clinton.

So, you're very happy, obviously, with the selection of General Mattis as the next defense secretary?

COHEN: I am. And if there's one change I would make, I would not call him mad dog. I would call him brave heart because that is who I think that Jim Mattis is.

BLITZER: Why do you think that is?

COHEN: I think he is, certainly on the battlefield, but he also has the brave spirit that goes with the command of being a general, a four-star general.

[13:05:09] For example, when he left the military, he took a two-week tour across the country and going -- before he went to Seattle. And that was to visit 10 of the gold star families whose sons were killed under his -- during his commands over the years.

That really is a sign why soldiers love him. Why families should understand this man has a great heart. So, he's not only brave but he has a great, great spirit and heart of a warrior and, I mentioned before, of a scholar. So, I would say, good man, great choice.

BLITZER: He has a very good reputation. But what do you say to Senator Gillibrand of New York? She's the ranking Democrat on the Armed Services Committee.

She says, you know what? He hasn't been out of the uniform for seven years. You've got to keep a civilian like you. You were secretary of defense. You were -- you didn't just go to become secretary of defense from the military. COHEN: No, but there are rules, certainly, it's a good, general rule. But every rule has an exception. For example, we had a rule when I was serving on the Senate Armed Services Committee that no uniformed officer should serve at national security adviser.

Guess what? Colin Powell was recommended to serve as national security adviser. We waived the rule under those circumstances and he did a great job.

So, in this particular case, you could say, generally speaking, we need to have a rule saying, seven years but there are exceptions. This man is an exception.

BLITZER: All right. So, now, his national security adviser of the White House, retired general, Lieutenant General Mike Flynn, former head of the intelligence agency. His selection for secretary of defense, General Mattis.

And there's suspicion he could name another general, secretary of state potentially, general -- retired General Petraeus. Would that be a mistake, generals surrounding all of these key diplomatic national security portfolios?

COHEN: I think that will be an issue that the president-elect would have to contend with. Something surprising to me that the name has not surfaced is Jon Huntsman, a Jon Huntsman, a Republican, certainly a -- a former governor of Utah, ambassador to China, Singapore, two sons in the Navy, et cetera. He's somebody I think should be under consideration.

BLITZER: As secretary --

COHEN: As secretary of state. But, interestingly enough, Bob Gates is now apparently going to meet with --

BLITZER: Today.

COHEN: Well, if that's the case, Bob Gates would be an excellent choice as well, because he would be the first time since General Marshall, who became secretary of state and secretary of defense. It would be the first time you have a secretary of defense and a secretary of state. It could be Bob Gates who would be a great choice.

BLITZER: For secretary of state.

COHEN: Absolutely.

BLITZER: So, you like Jon Huntsman. You like Bob Gates. Any other names you want to -- what about the others who are -- whose named are already being floated out there? You know, like Rudy Giuliani, for example? His name is high on the list. Mitt Romney, his name is high on the list. John Bolton, former U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. What do you think of them?

COHEN: Well, it's not what I think. It's what President-elect Trump thinks. As long as he's meeting with Secretary Gates, and I'm showing him Jon Huntsman, who I've never talked to about this. I just think there is a panoply of candidates that he could call upon with great experience.

But, ultimately, he's got to have the person that best reflects his own views. He doesn't -- the secretary of state, secretary of defense, they don't set policy. It's the president of the United States.

So, whomever he feels comfortable with, can carry out his philosophy, his objectives, that's the person to select.

BLITZER: But you know, you were on the inside. You were secretary of defense for Bill Clinton. You had an impact on the eventual decision that the president of the United States has. And it's really critically important who a president surrounds himself to make these critically important decisions.

Let me get back to General Mattis for a moment.

COHEN: Sure.

BLITZER: I interviewed him back at the Aspen Institute in 2013, the summer of 2013. I want you to listen to this exchange I had with General Mattis. We spoke for over an hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JAMES MATTIS, FORMER COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: The single most biggest question I was dealing with in my last year was the perceived lack of U.S. reliability as an ally. We were able to overcome that often, working specific issues with them. That sort of thing.

But it was something we have to work on. It's just a reality. It's a challenge but it's not to the point that they are willing to give up on the relationship with us.

But we're going to have to demonstrate reliability because trust is what's it's all built on. That's the coin of the realm. And if you can't maintain trust, then your leadership is obsolete.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, that -- this was number three years ago. The biggest problem he faced was the lack -- the perceived lack of U.S. reliability as an ally.

Is that still a huge problem for the U.S. right now, that the allies are worried about U.S. reliability?

COHEN: Absolutely. It's a question of not being constant in our philosophy and in our actions. That's true with respect to the European friends who we had to pass a $3.2 or $3 billion European reassurance initiative. [13:10:01] Think about that. We have to reassure European allies that we're still with them. We have great questions about our constant and reliability in the Middle East.

And I'm sure that our Chinese friends also look with some certainly apprehension about what the policy is going to be, and all of our allies in the Asian-Pacific region.

So, yes, we have an issue of whether or not we're a constant and reliable ally.

BLITZER: Is that President Obama's fault?

COHEN: I think it is generally. Congress has a role to play as well. But certainly the policies of the president, specifically dealing with Syria. Really unsettled our allies, in terms of drawing red lines and then not enforcing them. I think that was a major transition point for our credibility in the region.

BLITZER: Secretary Cohen, thanks so much for joining us.

COHEN: My pleasure.

BLITZER: Coming up, where does General Mattis stand on Syria, Iran, other key foreign policy issues? We'll discuss that.

Senator Ben Cardin is standing by. There he is. You see him. He's the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Lots to discuss with him.

Also, President-elect Trump teasing several imminent cabinet announcements and potential Supreme Court picks. A member of his transition team will join us. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:15:01] BLITZER: President-elect Donald Trump chooses another key member of his cabinet. Retired General James so-called mad dog Mattis is his pick for defense secretary of the United States.The Trump administration will soon be in-charge of the U.S. response to hotspots around the globe.

Joining us now from Baltimore to talk about this and more, Democratic Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland, he's the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, thanks for joining us.

SEN. BEN CARDIN, (D) MARYLAND: Well, it's good to be with you, thanks.

BLITZER: So what's your reaction to the selection of marine - retired Marine Corps General Mattis to become the next Defense Secretary?

CARDIN: Well, I certainly respect General Mattis' service to our country. He was an outstanding general. He served our nation with great distinction. I think the major problem as you pointed out is there's a reason why we want the civilian control of our military. It's been a tradition of America since its birth.

The law prohibits anyone who's been in service within seven years to serve as Secretary of Defense. That requires us to change that law for General Mattis to be considered. That's a matter that's going to be taken up in the Congress, not just the Senate but in the Congress itself and I'm sure there's going to be different views.

BLITZER: Your colleague, Senator Gillibrand of New York already said she will oppose any such waiver for General Mattis. Are you with her?

CARDIN: Well, I'm going to listen. Look, I'm concerned about some of the other appointments as well as to whether we have - how much military is going to be at the highest ranks of the cabinet. We want to make sure that we maintain civilian control of our national security.

So the Department of Defense is certainly an important position and we'll see who his appoint to Secretary of State. So there're going to be two issues here. First, whether he is qualified to serve because of the prohibition about recent retirees from the military. And then secondly, his own personal credentials which will go through a confirmation process in the Senate.

I'm not going to prejudge either, because I think I have a responsibility to listen, to see how the hearings go, to see what information we receive. So I'll -- I'm going to be considering this very carefully before I render a decision.

BLITZER: Would you have a problem with retired General Petraeus as Secretary of State?

MATTIS: Well, I do think it's extremely important that the person who leads the State Department recognizes that they need to be a counter in many respects to the Department of Defense. No, I wouldn't disqualify an individual, but it has to be from the point of view of someone who understands the role of the State Department, diplomacy, development assistance as part of our national security blanket. And that will advocate for that type of power that sometimes it's in conflict with the Department of Defense.

BLITZER: Senator, when I interviewed General Mattis at the Aspen Security Conference in Aspen, Colorado back in June of 2013, I asked him about the situation at that time in Syria. Listen to this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What, if anything, should the United States be doing to get rid of Bashar al-Assad assuming that's what the U.S. wants?

GEN. JAMES MATTIS, U.S. MARINE CORPS (RET.): We are going to have to determine what is the end state we want? This war needs to be ended as rapidly as possible. That's the bottom line. But if the Americans go in, if the Americans take leadership, if the Americans take ownership of this, it's going to be a full-throated, very, very serious war. We need to be very clear about our military end state contributing to what political end state. Otherwise, you're liable to invade a country, pull down a statue and then say, now what do we do? You know what I mean?

BLITZER: Let, let ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And, you know, everybody does what he means when the U.S. went in and liberated Iraq back in 2003. The statue of Saddam Hussein went down and everybody knows what happened after that.

CARDIN: Right. I think General Mattis is absolutely right that the -- he is absolutely correct about the military capacities of the United States. We have, by far, the world's strongest military capacity. We can do some amazing things with our military, but what happens afterwards? How do we make sure there's a stable regime that represents all the people? That's how much more complicated process and before we go in and use our military, we need to know the end game.

BLITZER: I also asked General Mattis about Iran. Listen to this answer. Listen closely.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: How much time, worry and concern did you have on Iran? Was that your primary concern?

MATTIS: The first three things I asked my briefers about when I woke every morning were Iran, Iran, and Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So what do you say about that? Remember, this is from the summer of 2013 before the Iran nuclear deal.

CARDIN: Well, Iran is very active in the Middle East. When I was - had a chance to meet with our Gulf states allies and strategic partners, they mentioned Iran first on their list. Iran through its proxies are involved in so many places in the Middle East, so they're funding terrorist operations that affect security of Israel.

[13:20:07] Iran is a country of major interest. Yes, we have a game plan in regards to their nuclear ambitions but we don't have a game plan that's been effective in preventing their use of terrorist -- supporting terrorists, their proliferation of ballistic missiles, the way they violate basic human rights of its citizens. All these are major areas of concern from the stability in that region in the world and affects U.S. National Security.

BLITZER: I should point out when I interviewed General Mattis it was shortly after he retired as the head of the U.S. Military Central Command which is in-charge of North Africa and then Middle East and that's why every morning he would ask his team, what's the biggest issues and he would say, Iran, Iran, Iran, because that was in his area of responsibility. Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

CARDIN: Wolf, it's always good to be with you. These are certainly very important security issues for our country.

BLITZER: You're going to be very busy in that Senate Foreign Relations Committee going through these nominations.

Coming up, a shouting match erupts between top aides from the Trump and Clinton campaigns during an event hosted by Harvard University. We're going to have details when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:25:39] BLITZER: Donald Trump promising to unite the nation during the first top of his victory tour last night in Cincinnati, Ohio. But the president-elect also went off script at that rally to take a few swipes at his former rivals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT-ELECT: I'm going to discuss our action plan to make America great again. We're going to discuss. Although we did have a lot of fun fighting Hillary, didn't we, right?

As a Republican, I'm supposed to win the great state of Utah. I love you Utah. I love those states. Remember when they said, "Donald Trump is going to lose to some guy." I never even heard of. Who is that guy? And, by the way, Hillary came in second and that guy came in third. I was still trying to figure out. I'm still trying to figure out what was he going to prove?

(END VIDEO END)

BLITZER: I watched that speech last night. What did you think? Is this the way to (inaudible) about three weeks after the election and try to unify the country?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: This is Donald Trump. This is the way it's going to be, whether it's unifying or not unifying, this is Trump. None of us should be surprised by it. There were a couple of lines in the speech about unifying the country and I -- it's something he didn't say a lot during the campaign. Now here is president-elect, he is saying it now, but he can't resist. It's a victory lap and he loves talking about the campaign because he won.

And at a certain point, I think he'll move away from that when he's going to take to the bully pulpit to win on issues. And what struck me about that speech is, as I watched it, this is what he's going to do during his presidency, much like Ronald Reagan did, except more so. If he has to fight with Congress, somebody else would play the inside game, maybe Mike Pence and he'll play the outside game and take the fight directly to the people.

BLITZER: These events, these rallies during the year and a half he was running for the Republican nomination, then in the general, they clearly generate a lot of energy for him. He's been doing a whole bunch more in the coming days as well.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. I mean, I think he is more like Teddy Roosevelt in this way. He's going to put the bully in bully pulpit and he's going to take his campaigning in a permanent sense to the American people in parts of the country that are his territory and he's going to feed off that audience and he's going to go around the media and he's going to go around the political elites.

I mean everything that he did in the campaign, I think he's going to a more permanent condition and advance his agenda that way. And I think it is a populist economic agenda that he wants to lead with. I think he sees that as the keys to his political prospects.

BLITZER: Yeah. And we're going to see a lot more of this, not just over the next few days, but over the next four years or maybe eight years.

ED O'KEEFE, POLITICAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: That's right. And I think while Trump will be Trump, I think there's a lot -- a big desire at them. We shouldn't forget it. For him to perhaps take this tour to places that he didn't win and maybe to do a little listening while he's at and not just talking, I think anything he does in that regard would help him certainly with these critics and with those who are still really sour over the fact that he won.

BLITZER: Some of that listening, though.

O'KEEFE: That means that won.

GREGORY: Right. He's not a great to sit down and listen to folks, but some of these moves that he is making in terms of people he's hiring ...

O'KEEFE: Yup.

GREGORY: ... does reflects listening. It reflects listening to people who disagree with him or criticized him sharply. All of that I think is reassuring a lot of people, certainly in the political class about his judge, about his pragmatism and we see it. You've been talking so much about general Mattis.

Just the fact that he can sit down with General Mattis and really get a talking about General Mattis and change his views on torture. Now, you'd be critical of Trump about that. But, again, he's clearly got something of an open mind about this.

BORGER: I was told by somebody familiar with their conversation that what impressed Donald Trump about Mattis was his straightforward answers to his questions and when they disagreed down on toward, General Mattis' point was, well, you know, not only don't I agree with it, but I don't think I'd ever have to use it.

And when they disagree, he said, I disagree. And if you have a good reason for disagreeing, Trump will listen to you. There isn't any sense that you can disagree with him, as long as you can make a strong argument. O'KEEFE: And there's been a remarkable amount of sort of Republican Party and Republican intelligence (ph) amendments done now in the last two weeks with the picks he's made, whether it's the Education Secretary, Mnuchin to be at the Treasury Department and, especially Mattis.

Now, suddenly the resumes will be pouring into the transition office because anyone who's, you know, a military mind and Republican circles sees that and goes. That's the kind of Defense Secretary I want to work.

BLITZER: I can't -- he's beating with the Democratic senator from North ---