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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Mike Pence Speaking At Carrier Plant; Donald Trump Speaking At Carrier Plant; Trump Companies Won't Leave U.S. Without Consequences; Italian Voters to Decide on Major Reforms on Sunday; Trump Nominates General Mattis for Cabinet Post; Hong Kong Students Race to End Human Trafficking; Growing Indian Robotics Industry; Beaver Walks into a Dollar Store in Maryland. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired December 2, 2016 - 15:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
GOVERNOR MIKE PENCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT: He made the case for America and Carrier
decided to bet on a brighter future for the American people and we are grateful from the bottom of our hearts.
I'm very humble to be standing before you today, I truly am. My family and I are deeply moved by the opportunities the people of Indiana have given
us, and now the American people have given us to serve.
But I'm especially humble as the holidays approach to have played some small role in this wonderful news. Not only here in Indiana, but all
across this country.
But I think it's important to give credit where credit is due. First and foremost, I want to thank Greg Hays and his team at United Technologies,
Bob McDonald, and the team at Carrier. Thank you for renewing your commitment to Indiana and renewing your commitment to the people of the
United States of America.
I also want to thank the great Carrier team here in Indianapolis and the state of Indiana. Your hard work, your resilience, your work ethic even in
disappointing times, I know for a fact gave this company the confidence to double down on the future of this company and the future of the people of
And so I thank you, the Carrier team, for giving them the confidence to do just that. But lastly, on behalf of all of the people of Indiana, allow me
to thank the man that we would not be here without for his efforts.
For picking up the phone, for keeping his word. His efforts to bring us to this day of renewed hope and promise. Not just here in Indiana, but really
for people that know that the strength of this country comes in our ability to make things and to grow things.
It's a renewed day for manufacturing in America. You know, I remember when Donald Trump was running president we he said if he was elected president
of the United States, America would start winning again. Today America won and we have Donald Trump to thank.
And I have a feeling working behind this extraordinary man, this is just the beginning of a lot more good news all across America. Without any more
adieu, it is my high honor and privilege to introduce to you a man of action, a man of his word, and the president-elect of the United States of
America, Donald Trump.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: Thank you, thank you everybody. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I love that red hat. Thank you,
everybody. I want to thank all of the dignitaries that are with us today. We have a whole host, the mayor, the governor-elect, great people. It's a
big victory for the governor elect. He won very convincingly. We're very proud of him.
Mike has been such a wise decision for me. When people were saying, I don't know how good is he at decision making, but he picked Mike Pence,
that's a good decision and everyone loves Mike, he has become something very special.
I want to thank Greg Hayes of United Technologies because when I called him, he was right there. I wish I could have made the call during the
original decision, but it worked out just as well other than I would have liked to have had an answer a year and a half ago.
We have a tremendous love affair with the state of Indiana. Because if you remember during the primaries, this was going to be the firewall. This was
where they were going to stop Trump, right? And that didn't work out too well.
[15:05:03]It was a fire -- for me it was a fire wall. We won by 16 points and the election we just won by 20 points, almost 20 points, and that was
some victory. That's pretty -- that is pretty great. And I just love the people. Incredible people.
So I got involved because of the love affair I've had. It's been a very special state to us and I'll never forget about a week ago I was watching
the nightly news, I won't say which one because I don't want to give them credit because I don't like them much, I'll be honest.
I don't like them, not even a little bit, but they were doing a story on Carrier. And I said wow, that's something. I want to see that. And they
had a gentleman, a worker, a great guy, a handsome guy. He was on and it was like he didn't even know they were leaving.
He said something to the effect, no, we are not leaving because Donald Trump promised us that we're not leaving and I never thought I made that
promise. Not with Carrier. I made it for everybody else. I didn't really make it for Carrier.
I said, what is he saying? He was such a believer. He was such a great guy. He said I've been with Donald Trump from the beginning and he made
the statement that Carrier is not going anywhere. They are not leaving.
And then I played my statement, and I said Carrier will never leave, but that was a euphemism. I was talking about Carrier like all other companies
from here on end because they made the decision a year and a half ago.
But he believed that that was -- and I could understand it. I actually said I did make it, but I didn't mean it quite that way, so now because of
him, whoever that guy was -- is he in the room by any chance?
That's your son, stand up. You did a good job. You did a great job, right? That is fantastic, and I love your shirt. Wow. Oh, oh, put it on,
cameras, go ahead, put it on. Your son is great, and he meant that, didn't he? He really meant it.
At first I thought I wonder if he is being sarcastic because this ship has sailed. I said -- it was 6:30 in the evening and I said, boy, the first
thing I'm going to do is go there, do I call the head of Carrier, who is a great guy.
But I've always learned I have to call the top, I heard about Greg Hayes. He is a great executive. You know, I don't know if you know, United
Technologies is one of the top 50 companies in the United States, and one of the top companies anywhere in the world. They make many other things
other than airconditioners, believe me. Their list of companies is incredible.
So I called Greg Hayes. I heard of him, but I never have met him, and he picked up the phone, Mr. President-elect, sir, how are you. It's wonderful
to win. Think if I lost, he wouldn't have returned my call. Where is Greg?
If I lost called you, I don't think you would have called. I would have tried, but I think it would have been tougher, but I called Greg and I said
it's really important. We have to do something because you have a lot of people leaving.
You have to understand we can't allow this to happen anymore with our country. So many jobs are leaving and going to other countries. Not just
Mexico but many, many countries, and China is making so much of our product that we're closing up a lot of plants.
I wrote down some numbers that are incredible, but the numbers of manufacturing jobs that were lost especially in the rust belt, and the rust
belt is so incredible, but we're losing companies, it's unbelievable, one after another, just one after another.
So I said Greg, you have to help us out, we have to sit down and do something. I said because we just can't let it happen. Anyway, he was
incredible. And he said, I understand and I said I wish I made this call a year and a half ago, it would have been an easier call. Only because of
your son, believe me.
Your son, whoever he is, these people owe him a lot. I just went through. He's out in the factory, I thought they would be in this room, this room is
not big enough. I don't know who arranged this one.
We just visited 1,000 people in the factory are going wild in the plant. But I will tell you that United Technologies and Carrier stepped it up, and
now they're keeping -- the number is over 1,100 people, which is so great, which is so great.
[15:10:12]And I see the people, I shook hands with a lot of people behind us working. What is it, you're making so many airconditioners you didn't
even want them to come off for a half hour. He is a ruthless boss. That's OK.
I did say one thing to the Carrier folks and the United Technologies folks, I said the good will you have engendered by doing this all over the world
but within our country, you watch how fast you're going to make it up because so many people are going to be buying Carrier airconditioners.
You know, we've had such help here. Bobby Knight, nobody in Indiana ever heard of Bobby Knight, how great is Bobby Knight? Louis Holtz, we had such
incredible support, but I'll never forget a friend of mine called up and said during the primaries, he said, you know, if you can get Coach Knight,
and I said Coach Knight called me a year ago.
He said if you ever run, I'm supporting you. I said thanks, Coach, I just don't know if I'm going to be doing it. How good was Bobby Night as far as
we're concerned in Indiana, is that right? We have Bobby Knight, 900 wins, two championships, right? Two or three championships, Olympic gold medal,
He was unbelievable. He wouldn't stop. He was just going all over. He was the greatest guy. We came into an arena. We had 16,000 people inside
and outside. We had I think 10,000 outside.
And I left -- this was three weeks before the primary, I said how do we lose Indiana with this? I didn't think we were going to lose and we
didn't. We won big. So I want to thank those folks, they really helped with Indiana and a lot of other places.
So United Technologies has stepped up and I have to say this -- they did it in such a nice and professional way. And they're going to spend so much
money renovating this plant, and I said that number, you know, he said $16 million.
Well, the minimum number is 16, it's going to be in my opinion a lot more than that. He said I would rather say the lower number, so I would rather
have them say the higher number, just a difference in philosophy. Do you agree? Both are OK.
But they're going to spend more than $16 million. They're going to spend a lot of money on the plant. And I said to some of the folks I said
companies are not going to leave the United States any more without consequences. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. I can
tell you that right now. We're losing so much.
So one of the things we're doing to keep them is we are going to be lowering our business tax from 35 percent, hopefully down to 15 percent,
which would take us from the highest tax nation virtually in the world, terrible for business, to one of the lower tax. Not the lowest yet, but
one of the lower tax.
The other thing we are doing is regulations. The regulations are -- in fact, if I ask Greg and your folks, you would probably say regulations
might be worse for you than even the high taxes, which is the biggest surprise of the whole political experience.
I thought taxes were going to be number one, regulations were up there some place. Believe me, these great leaders of industry, the small business
people, who were just being crushed. If they had their choice, between lower taxes and a major massive cutting of regulations, they would take the
I don't know how you feel about that, Greg, but I just noticed, I said since about six years ago, 260 new federal regulations have passed, 53 of
which affect this plant. Fifty three new regulations, massively expensive.
And none of them amount to anything in terms of (inaudible), the things that you'd have regulations for. Six of eight of the airconditioning
companies right now are located in Mexico, six of eight, I mean, think of that.
And 80 percent of the supply chain for Mexico, 80 percent is located in Mexico. We're not going to have it any more. We like Mexico, we think it
is wonderful, I was there three months ago with the president of Mexico. Terrific guys, but we have to have a fair shake. We're not getting
We have NAFTA, which is a total and complete disaster, a total and complete disaster. It is a one-lane highway into Mexico. Nothing coming our way,
everything going their way.
[15:15:00]And I don't have to mention who signed it any more, it's so nice. I don't have to mention who backed it any more, we don't have to mention
that any more fortunately, but it's a one-way street and it will be changed.
We have to bring our jobs back and when they expand and one of the things that made me so happy is when Greg said that they have over 10,000 jobs
that they will be going to be producing in the very near future and now he is looking to the United States instead of outside of the United States
where almost all of the jobs would have gone.
So one of the reasons I wanted to do this particular conference is it's so great, so many people in the big beautiful plant behind us, that will be
even more beautiful in about seven months from now. They're so happy, they're going to have a great Christmas.
That's most important, but also I want to let the other companies know that we're going to do great things for businesses. There is no reason for them
to leave any more because your taxes will be at the very, very low end, and your unnecessary regulations will be gone.
We need regulations for safety, environment, and things. Most of the regulations are nonsense. It has become a major industry, the writing of
regulations. These companies will not be leaving anymore. They will not be taking people's hearts out.
They're not going to be announcing like they did at Carrier. That they're closing up and moving to Mexico, over 1,100 jobs. And by the way, that
number will go up very substantially as they expand this plant. So the 1,100 is a minimum number.
So I just want to thank everybody, and specifically I just have to thank the people that I met backstage, incredible people. They're all crying
back there. It is taking us a little while, but think of this, I don't think we even announced we were running when this deal was originally
In the end what happened is that makes it more difficult. It's hard to negotiate when the plant is built. You know what Greg said, but you know
the plant is almost built, right? I said Greg, I don't care. It doesn't make any difference, don't worry about it.
What will we do with the plant? Rent it, sell it, knock it down, I don't care. They will do fine with their plant. I don't know if they can do it
with an American company, but we'll figure that out. But where we're starting from is from a much easier place. It's hard a year and a half
ago, they make the announcement, all of that work is done, which is why I have such a respect.
I always say great business people have flexibility. If you're a hard- lined, well, we are not going to move -- flexibility. That is why they have done so well over the years. That's why it's a great company because
they have flexibility.
But we don't need so much flexibility for other companies because we're going to have a situation where they will know, number one, we're going to
treat them well, and number two, there will be consequences meaning they will be taxed heavily at the border.
If they want to leave, make product in different companies and countries, and think they're going to sell that product over the border, which by the
way, will be a very strong border, very strong border, believe me.
And I think companies, we're going to build a wall. People are saying do you think Trump will build a wall? Trust me, we are going to build a wall.
And by the way, people will come through the wall, we'll have doors, but they're coming through legally, and they're coming through on worker
permits to work at the fields.
A lot of people can come through, but it will be done through a legal process. One thing not coming through is drugs. The drugs will stop. I
just want to thank all of the people at United Technologies most particularly you because you are fantastic, Greg.
I want to thank and I want you to tell me how many airconditioning units you sold in the last six months from today because I want to say I think
it's going to be a number that even will surprise you because of the tremendous goodwill that you've created.
I want to thank all of the workers at this plant, all of the Carrier workers, most importantly. I want to thank my great, great vice president
elect, because I'll tell you what, one of the really good decisions, but I want to thank Mike and we are going to be doing this.
If I have to tell you, during speeches they say it's not presidential to call up these massive leaders of business, but I think it is very
[15:20:06]And if it's not presidential, that's OK because I actually like doing it, but we are going to have a lot of great people that can also do
it and do it as well as I do it. But we are going to have a lot of phone calls made to companies when they say they are thinking about leaving this
country because they're not living this country.
The workers are going to keep their jobs, and they can leave from state to state and they can negotiate good deals with the different states and all
of that. But leaving the country will be very, very difficult.
So I want to thank everybody. We love you folks. I want to really, really thank the people of Indiana. We had two massive victories in a very, very
short period of time. All of the workers have a great, great Christmas and a fantastic new year. Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you. Thank
you very much.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL GUEST ANCHOR: Donald Trump giving a thumbs up to the crowd, feeling very good about himself, essentially patting
himself on the back after keeping managing to save 1,000 Carrier jobs keeping them in the U.S. Those jobs were essentially supposed to go to
He talks about a love affair with Indiana. This is his first major victory since made his campaign promise to keep more jobs in the United States.
One thing he touched upon, he said that U.S. companies from now on have no reason to leave America. He will promise them lower corporate tax rates
going from 35 percent to 15 percent. Fewer regulations as well.
I want to talk more about this with Josh Rogin, a CNN political analyst and columnist for the "Washington Post." We are also joined by David Gergen,
CNN senior political analyst who has advised four U.S. presidents.
So Josh, let me start with you. He managed to get 1,000 jobs to stay in the United States, but isn't it going to be taxpayers that end up footing
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That's right although Donald Trump said that there would be consequences, what he actually did was basically create
a bribe for Carrier to keep the jobs and that bribe is an incentive in tax cuts paid for by the taxpayers of Indiana.
And what Bernie Sanders pointed out today in "The Washington Post," which I agree with is that this creates a moral hazard and why wouldn't any company
in the world just call up the White House and say I'm going to move my jobs to country x unless you give me a, b, or c. That's one thing.
The other thing is that, you know, there is a lot of concern in Washington and that you know, if this is something that Donald Trump plans to
replicate over and over, it gets in the way of what we call the free market, right?
Jobs should be determined based on supply and demand. There should be a minimum of political interference, right. We elected a president not a
ASHER: It goes against Republican values.
ROGIN: Exactly and this is the party that criticized the Obama administration for using the government to influence incorporate decisions
when it came to GM and Solyndra (ph) and those were much bigger cases, but if this is any indication, what we will see is a more and more government
interference in the free market and that has all sorts of second and third degree consequences.
And the last thing is if he really does increase trade tariffs, right, that has very serious risks of creating trade wars with other countries. Can
you imagine if the German government called up BMW and told them to bring all of the workers back from South Carolina?
It is sort of like if you think through what he actually said, it is a huge change in U.S. trade policy that has implications. I don't think that
anyone has really understood.
ASHER: David, let me get your take on that because Bernie Sanders actually wrote a piece saying that this pretty amounts to corporate welfare. He
says that it's Carrier that comes out on top here. What do you think?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I respectfully disagree with almost everything has been said. First of all, I don't recall Bernie
Sanders and a lot of Democrats complaining about moral hazard and everything else when President Obama stepped in and (inaudible) stepped in
to save the automobile industry. It's one of his greatest accomplishments as you well know.
And so for Democrats to say this is really bad public policy, give me a break. Beyond that, this is not a bribe. Tax breaks for companies to move
into expand have been standard fair in America for a long time. Governors, Bill Clinton got his start internationally by going out and trying to
persuade companies to come to Arkansas, give them tax breaks.
It has done all of the time, and you know, frankly overtime a lot of the money, a small amount of money, $7 million tax break so far. That will be
repaid in taxes from these families overtime. So it's not a big loss for the taxpayers.
I do agree, look, the number of jobs that have been saved here is tiny. We've lost five million manufacturing jobs in the United States since the
year 2000 --
ASHER: It's not about that it's a small number of jobs. Also how do you keep other American companies not asking for the same thing?
[15:25:06]GERGEN: Well, all American companies will, but I think the Donald Trump answer, I think part of the answer, is appealing. I do agree
that there is a real issue about putting huge tariffs if you move your plant to Mexico and you want to sell your goods back into the United
States, I think huge tariffs are really going to be very problematic.
He's not going to get them without the help of Congress. I doubt he'll get them done anything like what he's been talking about, but what he is saying
that I think has appeal is look, I'm going to make it more appealing for you to stay here as a company. I'm going to lower your tax rates.
First of all, America has one of the highest tax rates, corporate tax rates in the world. Everybody knows that. There are a lot of loopholes, of
course, but it's a 35 percent tax rate. I doubt it he can get it down to 15, but he can it get it lower and that may make it better and cheaper to
But this regulatory regime is not an insignificant issue. There are a great number of small businesses in this country, which find themselves
stifled and by the way, they also have a hard time getting a loan still from banks that has suppressed growth.
And Donald Trump is trying to unleash that. I have a lot of problems with Donald Trump, his behavior, his narcissism. But I think when he comes
along with some ideas that are worth debating, it is time to really examine them to see whether it works. I would not call it bribes.
ASHER: Interesting point, Josh Rogin, just to follow up on something that David Gergen said, it would be hypocritical for Bernie Sanders to be
against this because after all President Obama bailed out the auto industry. What do you make of that comment?
ROGIN: Right. No, I don't think I'm disagreeing. I guess, I'm saying that what Donald Trump -- he's put the Republicans on the other side of the
issue, right. It is sort of hypocritical for Bernie Sanders to criticize these things because he has been for protectionism, for keeping
manufacturing jobs in the United States.
That is not where the Republican Party has been through decades, OK, and that's the big change that I was trying to point out. You know, I do think
that there is a big issue here with, you know, how much the government should really interfere in each of these deals.
Yes, this one case may not be -- a huge problem, but what if he does this 800 times. What kind of cottage industry does that create in terms of
lobbyists and consultants trying to now jockey for political influence to get ahead of the line for these kinds of deals?
And we're talking about an expansion of this corporate welfare system on a massive scale that has implications that could be good, but it also could
be bad. You know, as for the lower taxes, listen, that's going create a huge budget deficit, OK?
If we're going to slash corporate taxes, how are we going to make up for that, there's really only one way of two ways, you give the raise taxes for
the people who are paying -- the laborers, the rest of the people or you can just cut programs, right?
And so if you starve the government of all these corporate taxes that has real policy implications and nobody has explained to us what those are. So
yes, you can be for or against this particular deal.
But the broad policies that Donald Trump is proposing will have dramatic effects on the U.S. government's stance towards the free market, but also
its ability to deliver basic goods and services for the rest of the people who are not party to him.
GERGEN: I would just point out that --
ASHER: Very quickly, I have to go.
GERGEN: Ronald Reagan cut taxes, yes, we had big budget deficits, but we had also had enormous growth. Bill Clinton came along and cut spending and
also lowered taxes. We have very, very good growth. We have not had very good growth in recent years with the current policies.
ROGIN: Yes, I would just point out --
ASHER: OK, guys, I have to go. I have to go. Thank you so much for being with us. David Gergen, Josh Rogin, Appreciate that. We'll be right back
with much more news after the break.
[15:30:06] HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN ANCHOR: The official announcement isn't until Monday, but U.S. President-elect Donald Trump says he is
tapping retired Marine General James Mattis for Defense Secretary. Mattis got the nickname, "Mad Dog," leading combat troops in the 1991 Gulf War.
Another twist in the abuse scandal rocking British football. A former footballer has accused Chelsea Football Club of buying his silence. Gary
Johnson alleges he was paid more than $60,000 to keep quiet about the abuse he says he suffered. CNN has requested comment from Chelsea on the
specific allegations made by Johnson but has yet to receive a reply. On Tuesday, Chelsea said it had started an investigation into allegations
concerning an individual who worked at the club during the 1970s and is no longer alive.
Nico Rosberg won his first Formula 1 title just five days ago, but now he's retiring. The 31-year-old German first raced 10 years ago. He says it
feels right to retire while at his peak. Rosberg clinched the Formula 1 crown after a thrilling final day race against Louis Hamilton last weekend.
So back to Italy now where voters will head to the polls on Sunday. They'll be deciding whether or not to accept or reject their Prime
Minister's constitutional reforms. There is a lot more riding on this than just politics. A no vote to the reforms risks pushing Italy's fragile
banking sector over the edge. CNN Money's Europe Editor Nina dos Santos breaks it all down for us.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNNMONEY EUROPE EDITOR: For these five centuries, Monte dei Paschi has been behind some of Italy's great moments in history. It
helped finance the renaissance and sponsored Siena's famous Palio horse race. Now, the world's oldest bank has become its most endangered bank and
the symbol of Europe's latest crisis.
FEDERICO SANTI, EUROPE ANALYST, EURASIA GROUP: Monte dei Paschi is something of a special case in the Italian banking system. There's no
other bank that's really in quite such a dire state, and it could potentially be the first victim, I think, of our internal political
DOS SANTOS: From Spain to Slovenia, Euro's own countries have been cleaning up their lenders except in Italy where, paralyzed by weak
governments, the banks were left to rack up almost $400 billion worth of bad loans.
Now, the country's Prime Minister wants more power to fix the problem and to kick start an economy still stuck in the late 1990s. To do so, he's
called a referendum on changing the constitution.
DOS SANTOS: For Monte dei Paschi, a rejection of those changes could scupper it plans to plug a 5-billion Euro hole in its balance sheet and
force it into state hands. Another seven lenders on life support faces similar predicament, and all of these as hit shares of Italy's banks went
currently down 50 percent this year. Monte dei Paschi's stock is down by 80 percent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHLEEN BROOKS, RESEARCH DIRECTOR, CITY INDEX: Regardless of whether we get a yes or a no vote, the Italian banks are in very, very poor shape and
they are going to have to have a period of intense and painful reconstruction going forward.
DOS SANTOS: But even if Matteo Renzi wins the vote, the success of Italy's financial sector is by no means guaranteed. New laws from Brussels have
made it hard for him to bail out the banks without forcing investors to shoulder some of the burden too. That makes any rescue package political
dynamite in a country where swathes of mom and pop savers hold some $250 billion worth of bank bonds. Unsurprisingly, all of these has led to a
bleak mood on the streets of Rome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I don't think there will be great changes in the economy, even if they are saying the banks will vote for no
and it will create a great depression. I think the situation will remain unchanged unfortunately.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I am leaning towards a no because they're all liars. The reality is they're only interested in their
privileges. Politics are filthy. Even all of the publicity for the yes vote and the no vote, they're filling our heads with stupidity so you vote
for the lesser evil.
DOS SANTOS: Which means the only thing Italians can bank on for now is uncertainty itself.
Nina dos Santos, CNN Money, London.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUGHAN JONES: Well, let's discuss now with Mohamed El-Erian who's the chief economic adviser at Allianz. He's also the author of "The Only Game
in Town," and joining us live now from Irvine in California. Mohamed, great to have you on the program.
The political fallout of what's going on in Italy at the moment is quite clear. Matteo Renzi has already said that he would resign as Prime
Minister. But how much more dangerous would this financial fallout be of a no vote in this referendum?
MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISER, ALLIANZ: It will be dangerous in the sense that it would add to the uncertainty. And what Italy needs right
now is a period in which it can recapitalize its banks, it can improve the function of the company, and it can grow in an inclusive way. So to the
extent that the referendum increases uncertainty, that would be a further blow to Italy's economic and financial standing.
[15:35:07] VAUGHAN JONES: I'm wondering why anyone would vote no. I mean, all of these reforms that Matteo Renzi says he wants to bring in, they
sound like they are necessary reforms in order to try to get rid of the bureaucracy which has hampered Italy for so long. Is this just a rejection
of any plan that's put forward by the establishment?
EL-ERIAN: Yes, it's a rejection of the establishment, it's a rejection of expert opinion. It is what we saw in Britain with Brexit. It is what we
saw in the United States during the election. There is what I call the politics of anger. There's mistrust among the electorate, and therefore,
they end up voting for change or, in this case, not giving the establishment more power even though it makes sense on paper.
VAUGHAN JONES: Why is it that the Italian banks are so weak?
EL-ERIAN: Several reasons, first and foremost is an economy that has not grown. So what do banks do? They lend to the domestic economy. The
domestic economy is not growing. The credit worthiness of the borrowers is in question.
Secondly, unlike U.S. banks in particular, they didn't waste capital. They didn't bolster their balance sheets at a time when they could have done
Third, there's a whole legacy of management that they haven't dealt with. So this has been a problem for a long time, and you now get the vicious
cycle. Weak banks means that the economy stays weak, but the economy being weak means the banks stay weak. And that's what the Prime Minister is
trying to break among other things.
VAUGHAN JONES: Plenty of economics to talk about in Europe but I want to take you, if we can, across the Atlantic and talk about Donald Trump and
the announcements that he has made just in the last week, this Carrier deal and the announcement of more jobs staying in America.
His critics -- and when I say his critics, I mean Bernie Sanders in particular -- have said that this is just handing a prize, if you like, to
companies in America because, effectively, they're being able to hold Donald Trump ransom by saying, you know, we'll threaten to move jobs abroad
and he, in turn, says we'll have some tax breaks. What do you make of the deal?
EL-ERIAN: So what I make of the deal is it's a signal, that the President- elect wanted to give a signal that he wanted to follow through on his campaign promises, and he got something from the company. But we have to
be careful. We shouldn't make too big a deal of this, one way or the other.
You cannot promote healthy economic growth through these micro interventions. You need a lot more than that. And that's why the bigger
discussion should be about how far will he get on his deregulation agenda, his corporate tax reform agenda, his infrastructure agenda, and can he add
to that what we need to do also in terms of education reform, immigration reform, labor market reform?
So the big issues are there. This one, I think, is more of a signal. It was a signal that he needed to give, but it's not going to move the needle
in a big way in terms of how the economy ends up doing.
VAUGHAN JONES: And, of course, the two people who are going to be at the helm of trying to push the economy the way he wants it to go is the latest
appointments to his Cabinet, which are Steve Mnuchin at the Treasury and Wilbur Ross at Commerce. Is this the team to make America great again?
EL-ERIAN: So what's interesting about them and what's interesting about all the narrative that has come after the election is that it emphasized
the pro-growth elements, which a lot of it is what President Obama was trying to implement, the infrastructure, the corporate tax reform. So it's
interesting that it has focused on the pro-growth elements, and it has not focused on the anti-growth, which was the protectionism, the dismantling of
NAFTA, the slapping of tariffs on China and Mexico.
Because of that, the reception over here, Hannah, has been quite positive in terms of the market reactions because they see growth and inflation
coming down the road, not bad inflation but high inflation. So as long as they continue on the pro-growth element, there will unlock more of the
animus spirits on the private sector, but they have to avoid the antitrade rhetoric.
VAUGHAN JONES: Mohamed El-Erian giving us a financial report from the side of the Atlantic. We appreciate it. Thanks very much indeed for joining us
on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
EL-ERIAN: Thank you.
VAUGHAN JONES: And now, staying with the U.S. political transition, and we want to take a closer look at Donald Trump's choice for Defense Secretary.
Retired four-star General James "Mad Dog" Mattis spent 44 years in the U.S. Marines.
From 2010 to 2013, he served as Commander of the U.S. Central Command overseeing U.S. forces in the Middle East. He served in both U.S. wars in
Iraq as well as in Afghanistan. Mattis himself is a seasoned combat commander lauded for his leadership of Marines in the 2004 Battle of
Fallujah in Iraq. That was one of the bloodiest of the war.
[15:40:15] Let's get some insight now into who James Mattis really is and the challenges, of course, that he could face if he is indeed confirmed as
the pick. CNN National Security Commentator Mike Rogers is standing by for us in New York. He is a former U.S. House Intelligence chairman.
Mike, great to see you.
MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Great to see you.
VAUGHAN JONES: James "Mad Dog" Mattis, a seasoned military man now turned civilian politician. What do you make, to start off, of this choice?
ROGERS: Well, you know, I was one early on that was skeptical about putting a general as Secretary of Defense, but I always said there are a
few exceptions to this rule that we could find that could make that transition. General Mattis is one of them.
I've had the great privilege to work with General Mattis when I was on the Intelligence Committee on matters in Iraq and Syria -- it's not Syria,
excuse me, in Afghanistan. And from that, you learn something very different. Yes, he is America's finest warrior, I don't think anyone could
dispute that, but he is also a scholar. He is also an intellect. He is also an international engagement person. He understand that you use the
military not on any military intervention, but very sparingly and for a conclusion that everyone would understand has both political and diplomatic
So I look forward to the confirmation hearings because about General Mattis because I think if people walk in thinking he is only a tough warrior
Marine, which they'd be right, they're going to be sadly mistaken. He has an intellect that will far surpass, I think, most people in this Cabinet
VAUGHAN JONES: Well, he's yet to be confirmed. There's also other Generals' names being bandied around as well for other roles, notably
General Petraeus possibly for Secretary of State as well. So we could end up seeing a very heavily General-based Cabinet in what are traditionally
civilian roles, of course.
I just want to play you, and our viewers as well, a clip, though, of James Mattis. This is from 2005. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JAMES MATTIS (RET), UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS: Actually, it's quite fun to fight them. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot
people. I'll be right up here with you, I like brawling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUGHAN JONES: Now, he's effectively said that, "It's fun to shoot people, I like brawling." Now, of course, not all military men, ex-military
individuals, are going to be trigger happy, but it sounds like he is.
ROGERS: No, and I think it's really an injustice to the whole body of General Mattis' work to suggest that an Army General -- excuse me, a Marine
General talking to those forces deployed in the combat zone doesn't have a bit of theater about the way he presents the fact that I've got to get
folks fired up to go do really hard things, which is why, candidly, our Marines are so successful. It's because of the leadership of folks like
So I think it really is a disservice to try to take one comment or two comments or three comments about a General officer preparing troops to go
into combat. That's a very different conversation than you have when you talk about the strategy of how to push back an aggressive Iran or a China
that's pursuing expansionism or really a confounding Russia that's engaged in activities that are provocative around the world.
He'll know that better than anyone. Let me give you a quick statistic. He's got about 10,000 books in his personal library in his home. I'm not
sure he has a T.V. or if he does, he doesn't watch it very often. Those are just the ones that caught his attention that he kept. He is an avid
reader. And when you talk to him, he'll have a depth of understanding about Russian history, and Iranian and Persian history, and military
VAUGHAN JONES: OK. Well --
ROGERS: -- and can relate it to the challenges today. So I think that we need to take the whole person, and that's why I think the --
VAUGHAN JONES: Sure.
ROGERS: -- confirmation hearings are going to be so important.
VAUGHAN JONES: Well, with that in mind, with Russia, Iran, the Middle East as well, do you think we can see any immediate pivots in policy under his
ROGERS: I do. I think you'll see a little bit of a pivot. You'll see a pivot both in Syria, in Iraq, and I'm not talking about big military
intervention, just, I would argue, smarter military intervention. And I've talked to him in the past about this. As well as Russia and in China. And
the one good news, this sends a very important signal to those people who have been pushing the United States in an adversarial way. He means what
he says and along with concert with the President of the United States.
And by the way, he'll be giving him good counsel and good advice as Secretary of Defense. And I feel very, very confident that he will be
there and will be providing that good advice, that we will have the ability to actually -- you know, you can't be a good diplomat without having some
certainty. A guy like Mattis provides that certainty. And that's why I'm actually excited about his nomination as Secretary.
[15:45:11] VAUGHAN JONES: Well, he might have been nominated, but it's still yet to be confirmed and there could be problems with that getting
through the Senate.
VAUGHAN JONES: Just briefly, just explain that for us.
ROGERS: Well, he's going to have to go through two bites of this apple through the United States Congress. For the first time, the U.S. House,
our House of Representatives, will be engaged in this discussion because they have to have a waiver.
Normally, there is -- well, there is a law that says you have to wait seven years after you've worn the uniform to be up fo4 Secretary of Defense. And
there's never been anyone who's gone through this process. And, again, I normally think that's the right call with a few exceptions and I think
General Mattis is that. So what he has to do is he has to go and get the majority votes in the House of Representatives that say, yes, you can have
a waiver. And you also have to have that in the Senate.
And then he has a confirmation in the Senate alone for his nomination to be confirmed so that he would be Secretary of Defense.
VAUGHAN JONES: OK.
ROGERS: So it's a little complicated. He's got a little bit of a road, but knowing the reputation of this General officer, I think, you know, he's
going to be fine.
VAUGHAN JONES: Yes, and still to get his nomination confirmed, of course. We'll wait for that on Monday.
VAUGHAN JONES: Mike Rogers, great to have you on the program, thank you.
ROGERS: Thank you.
VAUGHAN JONES: This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW right now. Still ahead, taking action to end human trafficking. We'll show you how this group of students
is making a difference one mile at a time. Do stay with us.
VAUGHAN JONES: Hundreds of high school students in Hong Kong have pushed themselves to exhaustion running a 24-hour endurance race to save the lives
of human trafficking victims. CNN's parent company, Turner, was a sponsor of the race. Alexandra Fields with the CNN "FREEDOM PROJECT" shows us how
the students got on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ready. Set.
ALEXANDRA FIELDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Some of these teenagers are athletes, runners and swimmers used to competition, but few have faced a challenge
like this. For 24 hours, teams of eight from Hong Kong based schools will run continuous relay laps, a bold mission to raise awareness of modern day
slavery and money to fight human trafficking.
CRICKET RICHTER, TEAM LEADER, HONG KONG INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL: It's really, like, important for each other, for all of us, to motivate one another to
get us to last.
BAILEE BROWN, STUDENT, HONG KONG INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL: And just keeping the main idea in mind--
BROWN: -- that we're doing this for a good cause, and this is 24 hours compared to our entire lives, which most people don't do.
[15:49:51] FIELDS: The Global Slavery Index estimates there are 45.8 million enslaved people across the world, and that two-thirds of them are
in Asia. For the seventh year, the non-profit, Running to Stop Traffik is putting on this race, entirely organized by high school students. They
race along Hong Kong's Victoria Peak and partner with runners in Kuala Lumpur, Singapore and South Korea.
Together, the Asia relays have raised more than $700,000 since 2010.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And slowly I started to go back to my home roots and when I found out more about the problem of ending slavery in India, how it
manifests in many different forms, I felt really bad because I thought that I'm living in such a privileged area in Hong Kong. I always go back and
I'm not really able to do some change. I slowly got more interested in 24- hour race itself.
FIELDS: At 5:00 on a Sunday morning, the finish line feels far.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very, very tired. Four hours to go. A few of us have injuries and some of us are starting to get a bit sick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you get a cramp and you're running and you feel like you can't go on any more, just think about what they're going through
and then keep on going for them. When you can't go on for yourself, like when you want to give up, just go on for the cause that you're having.
FIELDS: The fuel for these runners, fighting for so many others.
Alexandra Fields, CNN, Hong Kong.
VAUGHAN JONES: Well, for more on what you could do to help end modern day slavery, you can visit our Web site, CNN.com/freedom. You can watch the
full series of reports, see our list of vetted charities, and find out thousand report suspected cases of human trafficking. That's all at
You can watch the full series of reports, see our list of our vetted charities, and find out how to report suspected cases of human trafficking.
That's all at cnn.com/freedom.
VAUGHAN JONES: Now, all week we have been reporting on the world's fastest growing major economy, India. The robotics market is on the rise there.
Everything to driverless shuttle buses to brainwave-controlled wheelchairs are in the works. Our Andrew Stevens takes a closer look.
ANDREW STEVENS, CNNMONEY ASIA PACIFIC EDITOR: At first glance, this seems like a normal, if rather empty, warehouse. But look closer at this
facility on the outskirts of Delhi and you'll see something is missing.
ANUJ KAPURIA, CEO AND FOUNDER, HI-TECH ROBOTIC SYSTEMZ: Our focus right now is around autonomous self-driving vehicles.
STEVENS: Anuj Kapuria if founder and CEO of Hi-Tech Robotic Systemz. Earlier this year, the company showed off what it called the first
driverless shuttle made in India.
The Novus Drive uses sensors and software to navigate and avoid obstacles in its path. The same technology can be applied to other existing vehicles
to make them autonomous.
KAPURIA: Transportation and people movement and goods movement is really a core need for humans to progress. The automotive as we know it has been
around for more than a hundred years and really, it hasn't changed. And now, we're in a position where it can be redefined and re-imagined. And
that's really our excitement and passion about being in this domain specifically.
STEVENS: Some analysts say the robotics industry could be worth more than $135 billion by 2019, but the World Bank warns that nearly 70 percent of
India's jobs are at risk because of automation.
[15:55:00} The head of Robotics and Research of the A-SET Institute in Delhi says robots will also create new opportunities.
DIWAKAR VAISH, HEAD OF ROBOTICS AND RESEARCH, A-SET INSTITUTE: To make these robots, to maintain these robots, we need people. A lot of people.
We need more than what we have right now. And for that, we would need to change our new generation that is coming in.
STEVENS: Diwakar Vaish developed what he describes as India's first 3-D printed humanoid robot. He unveiled Manav in 2015 and is now working on a
larger version. Vaish said he felt the need to make low cost research robots after finding a hefty price tag on other options in the market.
VAISH: If we are finding it a problem to actually get a robot that expensive, the people here in India, they might not have access to that
kind of robot. Our talent over here, the young students in the colleges and the schools, they might not have access to that kind of robot, which is
very necessary for their learning process.
STEVENS: Vaish won't' say how many he sold, but he says he is preparing for thousands of orders. In addition to humanoid robots, Vaish also works
on health care applications. He's created a wheelchair controlled by brainwaves for paralyzed patients, and he's preparing to launch a low-cost
prosthetic hand. Vaish plans to move into a new facility in 2017 where he hopes to mass produce his robots.
VAISH: And I see a lot of opportunities for making robots for the entire world and not only for a specific country. So I think the whole of the
thing, the crux of the thing, is that we need to work together to bring in very huge technological change that will completely transform the world.
VAUGHAN JONES: And we end the program with this. A beaver walks into a dollar store and checks out the Christmas aisle. No, it's not the start of
a joke. It's what actually happened in the U.S. state of Maryland.
Sheriff Deputies in St. Mary's County apprehended this furry creature. The beaver reportedly walked through the shop's front door and had a good look
around. Apparently, he wasn't too pleased to learn that the Christmas trees were all artificial, so he began to pull items off the shelves. The
animal was released back into the wild very shortly after his capture, we are reassured.
Christmas and animals. Classic combo. This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Thanks very much for watching. Stay tuned. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up