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China Files Formal Complaint Over Trump-Taiwan Call; Trump Fills More Top Staff and Cabinet Positions; Fire Broke Out During Warehouse Party; At Least Nine Dead, 25 Unaccounted For In Oakland Fire; Shouting Match Between Trump Aides, Clinton Aides; Lone Juror: I Can't Convict Ex-Cop In Walter Scott Killing; Thirteen Dead, Dozens Displaced Around Gatlinburg. Aired 11a-Noon ET

Aired December 03, 2016 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[11:00:00] CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you for spending your morning with us.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. It's been a pleasure.

Fred, over to you.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Victor and Marti. This Ohio connection this morning. Yes, you're feeling Ohio strong, OK.

PAUL: Yes, we do. We're Buckeyes, we admit it.

WHITFIELD: Yes, very good. I like it. All right. Thanks so much, have a great day.

PAUL: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. It's the 11:00 Eastern hour. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, NEWSROOM starts right now.

All right. Let's begin with that 10-minute phone call that is defying decades of U.S. diplomacy norms. China is now filing a formal complaint with the U.S. after President-elect Donald Trump accepted a call from the Taiwanese president, Tsai Ing-wen. This marks the first publicly reported call with a leader of Taiwan since 1979. The U.S. does not formally recognize Taiwan as an independent state and backs Beijing's claim that Taiwan is a part of China. But Chinese officials fear this phone call may have signaled otherwise.

Trump is downplaying that call and -- as having any further implications, tweeting this, quote, "The president of Taiwan called me today to wish me congratulations on winning the presidency. Thank you."

Meanwhile, Trump's senior advisor Kellyanne Conway says this was no different than other previous phone calls between president and world leaders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP SENIOR ADVISER: This president-elect -- I'm pretty certain that President-elect Obama spoke to world leaders in preparation for taking over as president of the United States and commander-in-chief. And I can't imagine that he was asked here or elsewhere if he had been properly and fully briefed considering that he had very, very little experience himself.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: But this is a break with U.S. policy.

CONWAY: With any serious --

COOPER: I mean, this is unchartered waters, not since, you know, for decades.

CONWAY: Anderson, President-elect Trump is fully briefed and fully knowledgeable about these issues on an ongoing basis. Regardless of who is on the other end of the phone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, let's go to CNN's Jessica Schneider who is live outside Trump Tower.

So, Jessica, what more do we know about how this call was orchestrated and if the U.S. State Department was at all notified?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fredricka, we understand that the State Department did not have any knowledge of this. They did not facilitate it. The White House also did not know about this phone call. But we do know that the man who helped facilitate this call is Steven Yates. He's a Heritage member and he has also an adviser to the Trump transition. And he also worked for Dick Cheney as an Asia adviser.

Steven Yates is pro-Taiwan. But of course there has been a swift reaction from Chinese officials. In fact, the Foreign Minister Wang Yi saying that this was a play by Taiwan. Also calling this shenanigans by Taiwan. State-run media in China is saying that this is an unprecedented break from the One China policy. And also there's been a swift statement and reaction from the Foreign Ministry of China. A spokesperson there saying that -- that the U.S. should continue to adhere to the One China policy. Also saying that it is the foundation of U.S. and China relations.

But of course Donald Trump defending this phone call in two different tweets. You said you talked about this at the beginning that he said that he actually received this 10-minute phone call from the president of Taiwan. Also saying this in a tweet, saying, "Interesting how the U.S. sells Taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment, but I should not accept a congratulatory phone call."

Of course Donald Trump there referring to the Taiwan Relations Act that the U.S. does in fact provide arms to Taiwan. But Trump's team is backing these phone call. Kellyanne Conway backing it as well. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CONWAY: It's a matter of the executive committee. It's a matter of the president-elect, the vice-president elect, other advisers to the transition making suggestions. And we're happy to schedule the calls. It's a very orderly process. We make sure that there's plenty of time for these phone calls, that there's proper briefing. And so far they've just gone really well. He at least is having these private conversations, giving a readout here and there about them but not trying to make policy and not trying to make waves until he's actually the president in six and a half weeks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: But of course this phone call prompting immediate backlash. China has reached out to the White House last night. And in addition many lawmakers and diplomats and former ambassadors are saying that this moves into dangerous territory and this could in fact be a dangerous threat for the U.S. -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Jessica, thank you so much. Appreciate that.

Let's talk more about this, this phone, and why China is fearful of its implications. Joining me now is Joseph Bosco, he is a senior associate at the Sumitro Chair for Southeast Asia Studies.

Good to see you.

JOSEPH BOSCO, SENIOR ASSOCIATE, SUMITRO CHAIR FOR SOUTHEAST ASIA STUDIES: Good to be with you.

WHITFIELD: All right. So the Taiwanese government gave more detail about the content of this phone call in a translated statement saying this about this conversation between Trump and Tsai, quote, "That they shared their views and concepts on future important policy points, in particular to promote the domestic economy and strengthen national defense allowing the people better lives and the guarantee of security."

[11:05:15] So what's your point of view as to whether this phone call should have been made and if the content of that phone call is fair?

BOSCO: Nice to be with you, Fredricka. May I -- if I may, I'd like to correct one point in your lead-up. You said that China -- that the United States accepts China's One China policy that Taiwan is part of China. That is not historically correct. The U.S. position is that Taiwan's future is to be determined by the mutual consent of the Chinese and the Taiwanese people. So it's not the same as saying from the outset that Taiwan is part of China.

I think the phone call is, frankly, almost an American media and expert tempest in a Chinese teapot. The content of the call was perfectly routine for the leader of one country to congratulate the leader of another country. And I think we're making much too much of the perceived change in U.S. policy. Mr. Trump --

WHITFIELD: So then --

BOSCO: -- does not even in office yet.

WHITFIELD: If it's too much is being made of it, then why would China call the White House and say be careful?

BOSCO: Because China always does that, number one. And number two, I think the American media and experts have virtually invited China to react harshly because I think we reacted faster than the Chinese government did. So I don't think we should make much more of that. What's really at stake here is that China resents and objects to any visibility, any publicity for the phenomenon that is Taiwan. A free democratic Chinese people that have paved the way from authoritarianism to democracy.

WHITFIELD: But then why is there this precedence that since 1979 no U.S. president would have this kind of dialogue with Taiwan?

BOSCO: Because the United States has been hypersensitive to so-called Chinese feelings on the subject. I think we've been overly solicitous. And even President Nixon -- former President Nixon wrote in his memoir that the relationship between China and Taiwan has changed over the years, and Taiwan is now permanently separated politically from the mainland. But our diplomats have not yet caught up with that reality and we continue to perpetuate the myth that we need to worry about every whisper from China on this subject.

WHITFIELD: So are categorizing this as a breakthrough, so to speak, that this president-elect would have direct conversations with Taiwan and that it is your hope or anticipation that there would be more conversations to come once sworn in?

BOSCO: Yes. I don't think it's breakthrough yet because as I said he's simply a private citizen at the moment. But I hope that when he does take office, he will conduct a fresh review of the entire U.S. policy toward China and Taiwan to bring them back into reality because they certainly are not at that stage now.

WHITFIELD: So at the same time, as a private citizen, as president- elect, is it inappropriate to embark on the conversation before inaugurated?

BOSCO: Well, I don't think he embarked on the conversation. That's sensitive. If the call was initiated by the president of the Taiwan --

WHITFIELD: Well, reportedly one of his close advisers who is in Taiwan helped facilitate this conversation, this phone call.

BOSCO: You know, I don't know the details, but I will say this, there are three major flashpoints in Asia. Taiwan, North Korea and the South China Sea. And every one of those China is the key player. And I think that the United States needs to reevaluate its entire policy toward China.

WHITFIELD: All right. Joseph Bosco, thanks so much for your time, appreciate it. All right. Donald Trump's calls to several world leaders come as his

Cabinet is still taking shape. Next, the finalists for U.S. secretary of State and what U.S. foreign diplomacy could look like under his administration.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:12:11] WHITFIELD: All right. As early as Monday, we expect to find out more of Donald Trump's Cabinet picks. And as we look ahead to who may be in line to join the president-elect's administration, here are some of the names nominated and selected so far.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD (voice-over): President-elect Trump with some key Cabinet level posts for his administration. In an unofficial announcement he's tapping retired Marine General James Mattis for secretary of Defense.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT: I don't want to tell you this because I want to save the suspense for next week. We are going to appoint Mad Dog Mattis as our secretary of Defense.

WHITFIELD: The general has more than 40 years of military experience. He led U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf War, Iraq and Afghanistan earning him the nickname "Mad Dog Mattis." The general is also the former head of the U.S. Central Command.

Billionaire investor, Wilbur Ross, tapped for Commerce secretary. Ross is known for buying distressed and failing companies and turning them around.

Republican Congressman Tom Price of Georgia, selected for Health and Human Services secretary. He is the chair of the House Budget Committee and a former orthopedic surgeon who is critical of Obamacare.

So far Trump has selected three women for key positions.

ELAINE CHOW, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: We are so excited.

WHITFIELD: Former U.S. secretary of Labor, Elaine Chow, now as U.S. Transportation secretary.

GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I love South Carolina.

WHITFIELD: South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. School choice activists Betsy DeVos for Education secretary. DeVos has been an advocate for charter schools and school voucher programs.

Retired three-star General Mike Flynn for National Security adviser. He has helped destroy extremist networks in Afghanistan and Iraq, and is known as a skilled intelligence officer even though he was forced out as head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, reportedly over his combative management style. Kansas Representative Mike Pompeo tapped to be the next CIA director.

Elected to Congress in 2010 Pompeo was a Tea Party favorite and one of the lead Republicans investigating the 2012 Benghazi attack.

Then there's Steve Bannon, Trump's chief strategist. He spent seven years in the U.S. Navy. Was an investment banker for Goldman Sachs and a Hollywood investor, most recently he made it his mission to take down the Republican Party establishment.

Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions is nominated for U.S. attorney general.

[11:15:02] The former prosecutor has opposed immigration reform as well as bipartisan proposals to cut mandatory minimum prison sentences. Sessions has been accused of calling civil rights groups un-American and criticizing the Voting Rights Act.

And finally, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, Reince Priebus, who will be the president-elect's chief of staff. While he's a mainstream pick that many Republicans find encouraging, some Tea Party leaders fear Priebus is too much of a Washington insider.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, let's bring in CNN political analyst and senior editor for the "Atlantic," Ron Brownstein, and contributing editor for "TIME" magazine, Jay Newton-Small.

All right. Good to see both of you.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. So, Ron, you first. So Mattis is just the latest retired general picked by Trump. Trump, he is expected to officially nominate Mattis on Monday, but in the case of Mattis there will still need to be a congressional waiver since there needs to be seven-year separation after being in uniform. It's only been three years.

BROWNSTEIN: Right.

WHITFIELD: So is that going to be a problem?

BROWNSTEIN: No, I don't think so. I think he's going to get that waiver. He's respected on both sides of the aisle. You know, there is hesitation among I think some in Congress really again on both sides about breaking the precedent of a seven-year waiting period which only George Marshall who was the -- you know, the administrator of the victory over Hitler in World War II has made this jump.

But I don't think it's going to be a problem. And look, I think in the Mattis appointment you see kind of the larger pattern here which is that with a few very notable exceptions like Jeff Sessions, most of this Cabinet is a Cabinet you might have seen from almost any Republican who was elected. It is more kind of reflecting the general balance of power in the GOP that might have been expected. The edgiest picks apart from Sessions have been in the White House with Bannon and General Flynn.

WHITFIELD: So then, Jay, where is the anti-establishment?

JAY NEWTON-SMALL, TIME MAGAZINE CONTRIBUTOR: I would actually say that some of these picks are very anti-establishment. I would say Jeff Sessions, obviously as Ron was just saying, but also certainly Michael Flynn is not a pick I think any of the Bush administration or --

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

NEWTON-SMALL: It's hard to imagine any of them picking. Even Mike Pompeo for CIA chief. He's a huge Tea Party activists, he's very much a bomb thrower on Capitol Hill. The thorn to some degree in the leadership's side. And so I don't think he's anyone that I could imagine establishment Republicans picking to be in their Cabinet. So there -- I think there definitely are a lot of picks in this Cabinet that are very untraditional for Republicans.

WHITFIELD: But they've been part of the political spectrum.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

WHITFIELD: And I think when people think anti-establishment they're thinking completely outside of that.

So, Ron, you know, when you look at all of the people publicly being appointed or nominated, Trump has other advisers who the public doesn't know or see advisers who may be encouraging a phone call with Taiwan, offering good luck to the Philippines on its drug war in terms of a phone call that Trump made. And then, you know, Trump heaping praise during a phone call with Pakistan prime minister.

So what do these decisions tell you about who really has Trump's ear?

BROWNSTEIN: It tells you whoever it was going to be -- whoever is ultimately going to be his secretary of State is going to have their work cut out for them. You get to a very important point. In any administration, it is an open question how significant these Cabinet appointments really are because the balance of power between a Cabinet and the White House varies from administration to administration.

But the long term trend is to vest more control over the administration's direction in the White House. And as I think both Jay and I are both saying, that is where he has put his edgiest picks. Steve Bannon is not someone that anyone else would have put in the White House. General Flynn is not someone that anyone else would have put as National Security adviser.

If you have a Labor secretary or a Transportation secretary, or an Education secretary that might have been someone you'd see in another Republican administration that's one thing. But it's not clear ultimately whether they will be the ones driving the train. And I'm guessing, given the improvisational nature of all of the phone calls that you've talked about and the way in which they have unfolded without briefings with the State Department and so forth, you're going to see a lot of direction out of the White House. If not necessarily a lot of kind of guided, you know, kind of a clear map and pathway, especially on foreign policy.

WHITFIELD: And so, Jay, speaking of, you know, direction, even in this transition period, you know the president-elect would receive intelligence briefings from the White House, material from the U.S. State Department. Trump senior adviser, Kellyanne Conway, had this exchange with Anderson Cooper on this matter last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: There have been questioned raised about the briefing materials that President elect Trump has used in phone calls with world leaders, whether or not he's used State Department briefing booklets and information, and you know, the expertise of people in the State Department that's been available to him. Can you confirm if he did consult that before this phone call?

CONWAY: I can confirm that he has access to those materials and he has access to daily briefings. He has access to other information that come to him from official government agencies and elsewhere.

[11:20:08] COOPER: Does he use it, though?

CONWAY: Of course he uses it. He reads everything. I mean, the guy -- he's the busiest guy in the planet. Pretty much has been for a while now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So, Jay, does the president-elect not have to adhere to certain diplomatic protocols? Is it because he has not been sworn in, he really can do what he wants to do?

NEWTON-SMALL: Well, it was interesting that China's response was that they lodged their complaint through the, quote-unquote, "relevant office." Meaning like the actual ones in power and the ones who actually knew what they were talking about. And that was sort of the implication. And it was a backhanded insult at Donald Trump.

And I guess the question here is, which we don't really know the answer to is, did he do this kind of naively? And just sort of blundered into this massive diplomatic faux pas with China? Or did he do it very intentionally? And that's a real question because he did make anti-Chinese policy a center piece of his election. So this would be in line with a lot of what he has said throughout the election. At the same time his reaction to it on tweets was sort of like, but wait, they called me, it's no big deal. I didn't -- you know, I'm not changing policy here at all. And that's been the -- it kind of wafted back since then.

So you don't know for sure whether this was very premeditated and was a massage slapped at China or whether they kind of ambled into this like very big diplomatic situation?

(CROSSTALK) WHITFIELD: Another footnote Kellyanne Conway did say they're trying to make policy, not make waves. So, Ron and Jay, I'm going to have you back. Let's talk some more on this.

OK. All right. Also next at least nine people have died in Oakland after a warehouse party went up in flames. We're live on the scene with details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:25:24] WHITFIELD: All right. We're following breaking news out of Oakland, California. At least nine people are dead and another 25 may be missing after a fire broke out at a warehouse party, according to fire officials.

CNN's Dan Simon is at the scene. So, Dan, what more can you tell us about this building where this happened and what was going on at the time?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Fred. We know there was a party that was going on. And this is a significant tragedy here in Oakland. We have been told that at least nine people are dead and there are reports that 25 people are unaccounted for.

I'm here with the Oakland fire chief, Theresa Deloach Reed. What can you tell us about this? There were obviously some kind of gathering, a celebration, maybe a Christmas party?

CHIEF THERESA DELOACH REED, OAKLAND FIRE DEPARTMENT: Right. First of all, I just want to say that our thoughts and prayers goes out to the victims right now, the ones that have been identified. Their families and really this community and the city of Oakland.

Our firefighters did a great job. This was a difficult fire for them. And it's just a tragic day. You know, as a whole. But as you were mentioning, there was some type of party that was going on here when the fire broke out. It's been a report that there's been between 50 to 100 people possibly that was in attendance at the fire.

A group of individuals were able to escape. Some of them have not. You know, were not able to escape. Right now we can confirm that there are nine fatalities. But there's still a large portion of the building that still needs to be searched.

The building was a warehouse that was kind of like an artist studio that had, you know, several different partitions where they had various artists in there. And so inside it's just a wide assortment of just everything, furniture, mannequins, statues, I mean, just a lot of stuff inside.

There's a second floor that had a makeshift stairwell that was actually reported to me being made out of palettes . The majority of the fires were found so far -- excuse me -- up on that second floor. But as I mentioned before, there's still a large portion of the building that still needs to be searched. The initially early in the fire, the individuals that did escape have

given us a list of about 25 names of people that they may have been with in the structure that right now they cannot locate. So we are going through those names, trying to verify to make sure that we don't have any duplicates.

SIMON: And in terms of the numbers, is the problem just simply getting inside and determining if there are more bodies inside the facility?

REED: It really is. And there is a lot of debris. Like I mentioned, the roof did collapse. And so there is a lot of large timber and debris that's going to need to be removed. And it's going to have to be removed in a slow and a methodical way. Not only to preserve in regards to looking for additional bodies but also to preserve the scene in regards to the investigation, trying to determine cause.

SIMON: Is it the kind of building that if a fire breaks out that people would have a difficult time escaping?

REED: Well, the building itself originally was a warehouse. And if it would have just remained a warehouse that no, you wouldn't expect people to have trouble escaping but because there was a lot of construction where people just, you know, put up partitions, there wasn't a real clear entry or exit path, as mentioned earlier up on the second floor. It was the stairwell, there was one way down from the second floor. And that stairwell was put together through what was described to me as pallets. And if the fire possibly, if it had started in that area, then everyone on the second floor would have -- would not been able to escape.

So I don't know where the fire started. But I know that the way the building was situated, it really made it difficult for people to escape.

SIMON: And it's been described as a work-live space but it doesn't sound like these are traditional apartments. There aren't actual bedrooms.

REED: Correct. And further information, there's still question about whether people were actually living there. It was a lot of different artists, partitions and those studios. And some folks have said that yes some folks were living there, some were saying no, it wasn't a regular live/work studio. So we're still trying to find out if anybody was living there, how many people were living there.

SIMON: Any theories about cause?

REED: No. I don't want to talk about cause at this time. We have our partners coming in from Alameda County Task Force that's going to assist us with the investigation. And I'm just going to wait until they get here so they can do a thorough investigation and really give us some good information without me making assumptions.

SIMON: Chief, thank you very much. So, Fred, you heard what she had to say. There was a party last night and it sounds like the building inside is very cluttered because it is an artist studio. And the chief says apparently -- although she's not entirely sure -- it seems like people were also living there, even if this wasn't a so-called traditional apartment complex.

This is sort of an artist enclave, a place where people, you know, create visual arts and there was a celebration last night and at about 11:30 p.m. is when that first call came out. And again, we're talking about nine confirmed fatalities, and as many as 25 people who are unaccounted for -- Fred.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Tragic situation in Oakland, thank you so much, Dan Simon.

All right, still to come, it has been nearly a month since the election, the bitterness between the Clinton and Trump campaign still stings. We'll hear from both campaign managers after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, hello again, and thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

All right, so President-elect Donald Trump has talked about uniting the country, but if a recent meeting between campaign aides is any indication, he has a lot of work to do.

[11:35:09]CNN's Jake Tapper sat down with Trump campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway and Clinton campaign manager, Robby Mook, during an event at Harvard University where the continued bitterness and resentment was on full display.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: You refer to this as a post-factual election where facts don't matter and you were just taking issue with something that Donald Trump said and there were other things the so-called fake news disinformation out there, stories, there was a crazy story towards the end of the campaign in which the NYPD to throw Hillary Clinton and her whole gang in jail because of stuff found on Anthony Wiener's computer that linked everybody to child sex trafficking.

Just a bizarre story that interestingly enough General Flynn retweeted at one point. How much of a problem was this post factual election in your view?

ROBBY MOOK, CLINTON CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I think it was a huge problem. I think there's a lot of things we need to examine coming out of this. You just named one of them. Congress has got to investigate what happened with Russia here. We cannot have foreign aggressors I would argue intervening in our elections.

We know that the Russians were promulgating fake news through Facebook and other outlets. But look, this is with all due respect to Kellyanne and her colleagues, this isn't personal. But, you know, Steve Bannon ran Breitbart News, which was notorious for pedaling stories. I'm not attacking him personally. They pedaled a lot of stories on that website that are just false. They're just not true and that reinforced sexist, racist anti-Semitic notions in people. You know, headlines that just make your -- you know, are shocking and insulting and shouldn't be part of our public discourse.

TAPPER: Kellyanne?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP SENIOR ADVISER: I think the biggest piece of fake news in this election was that Donald Trump couldn't win. So there's that and that was pedaled probably for weeks and months before the campaign, definitely in the closing days. If you look at major newspapers and major cable stations, networks, Jake, it's unmistakable --

TAPPER: I never said that he couldn't wind. I said --

CONWAY: I didn't say you did. No, I'm saying, particularly print stories, I mean, we have colleagues whom we all respect, some of who that are in this room that represent outlets. Literally, if you go back, because we have them, and you pull the whole front page --

TAPPER: There's a lot of defeat --

CONWAY: Unbelievable. That's fake because it's based on things that just aren't true. They have no path. They have no ground game. She has more money. She has more personnel. She can't possibly lose. And then of course, the growing narrative which I'm not going to -- the persistent chronic narrative I'm not going to repeat here.

But they essentially boil down to Donald Trump takes the wings off of butterflies. America said there's a difference between what may offend me and what absolutely affects me. And I as a voter, I'm going to that way and I'm going to vote according to what absolutely affects me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, so for more on this, I'm joined now by CNN senior political analyst and senior editor at "The Atlantic," Ron Brownstein, and "Time" magazine contributor, Jay Newton Small. All right, welcome back.

OK, so Ron, you first, if this a microcosm of conversations across America, what does this say about leadership on both sides?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, first of all, the level of acrimony is extraordinary. Four years ago, Gloria Borger and I moderated the equivalent panel on the general election as the Harvard retreat and I think Jay has been there as well.

Usually the losers are kind of sullen and mumble, but there isn't like kind of the overt clashes that we saw. It reflects how deep the wounds are after this election. There are a number of extraordinary things about this campaign. It's the first campaign ever where we had a majority of voters expressing unfavorable opinions of each of the candidates on election. Hillary Clinton is going to win the popular vote by more votes than anyone who did not become president in American history --

WHITFIELD: Two million.

BROWNSTEIN: Over 2.5 million at the moment. Closing in on not only exceeding Jimmy Carter and John Kennedy, but getting close to George W. Bush in 2004, an election that Republicans talked about a kind of decisive mandate. So there's a lot -- and then you kind of -- you know, not only did so many of the Clinton voters have an unfavorable view of Trump, they also viewed him essentially as a bigot.

So you know, which goes beyond kind of having a political disagreement. So you have very deep fissures in the country. You have a candidate who thrives on polarization, who mobilized his side of the line more effectively than Hillary Clinton mobilized her side of the line who won fair and square by the rules of the Electoral College, but nonetheless is facing enormous skepticism from major parts of the country as he takes office.

WHITFIELD: So that event at Harvard also included a round table among a larger group of aides from both sides and things got pretty ugly there. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOEL BENENSON: Listen, you guys won. That's clear. You won the Electoral College --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was the --

BENENSON: Let's also be honest don't act as if you have some popular mandate for your message. The fact of the matter is that more Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than Donald Trump. So let's put it in total context.

[11:40:03]KELLYANNE CONWAY: There was nothing that said the road to popular vote anywhere. Hey, guys, we won. You don't have to respond. I mean, seriously. Hold on, why is there no mandate? You've lost 60 congressional seats since President Obama got there. You've lost more than a dozen senators, a dozen governors, 1,000 state --

BENENSON: We're talking about this legislation, Kellyanne.

CONWAY: No, no, no, you said there's no mandate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, so Jay, you know this popular vote thing, you know, 2.5 million, you know, votes more that Hillary Clinton got. This does seem to bother President-elect Trump and his aides. Will this continue to haunt however his administration?

JAY NEWTON SMALL, CONTRIBUTOR, "TIME" MAGAZINE: I mean, certainly a good question of a mandate is really important when you take office because that gives you how much political capital you have to spend when you get to Congress and you get to legislating. But I do also think it's less about Donald Trump's mandate and it's about the Republican mandate in general.

They control both houses of Congress. They have to ability now they control both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue and do big things, like, for example, they were talking today about how they'll repeal Obamacare first thing when Donald Trump takes office.

That's something they've been promising for years and years. They're finally going to do it. Is it going to take effect immediately? No, it's going to be several years because they have to figure out how to replace it, but these are things they wanted to do for a long time.

And that means they have a mandate to do it. They have the ability to do it. They have the votes to do it. But for a long -- we'll see Democrats on the other side of the aisle argue why -- you know, convincingly to some people that they don't have the mandate.

They don't have the support of the popular vote and that's why you keep seeing all these appeals to get rid of the Electoral College, which is -- kind of -- yes, that's a great thing to say. But that would take like 30 years to do because it would require a Constitutional amendment to do it. So there is no quick and easy fix here.

WHITFIELD: Yes, Ron, real quick.

BROWNSTEIN: Getting rid of the Electoral College would require the small states to get rid of -- to vote themselves less power and that's not going to happen. Look, it's right. Having a mandate is great, but having the votes is even better and Republicans now have the votes. They're in the center. They have the ball. The public is looking to them for answers. They will be the ones who will be judged over the next few years over the results they produce.

WHITFIELD: All right, we're going to leave right there. Thanks so much. Ron Brownstein, Jay Newton Small, appreciate it. Good to see you.

And catch more from Jake Tapper's conversation with Kellyanne Conway and Robby Mook, the full interview airs tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time right here on CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:45:54]

WHITFIELD: All right, deliberations in the murder trial of Walter Scott, shot and killed by a former North Charleston, South Carolina police officer who was active duty at the time. That will continue on Monday after the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

Michael Slager is on trial for killing Walter Scott, but one juror is refusing to vote in favor of a conviction. Writing a note to the judge saying, quote, "I will not change my mind," end quote.

Authorities say Slager initially pulled Scott over for a taillight violation back in April. When the officer says Scott then bolted from his car. Graphic cell phone video from a witness shows Slager shooting Scott from behind as he runs away.

CNN's Boris Sanchez is covering this trial for us and joining us now from Charleston, South Carolina. So Boris, what happens if the jury remains deadlocked after deliberations do resume on Monday?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred, at that point if they are still deadlocked, the judge will likely do what he almost do yesterday and declare a mistrial. Meaning this case will likely be retried yet again in a couple of weeks. It's something the judge tried to avoid several times yesterday.

It all started around 1:00 when the jury asked for testimony from the witness that shot that cell phone video that's now gone viral. About 12 minutes later, the jury then passed a note to the judge saying it's clear we'll likely not reach a consensus.

The judge then issued what's known as an Allen charge telling the jury that it was their duty to come up with a verdict. He sent them back into continued deliberations. That's a few hours later when we saw that note you're talking about from that one juror.

It was one of three notes given to the judge. That note from the one juror said they could not in good conscience convict Michael Slager. But on the same token, they added that they could not look at Walter Scott's family in the eye and say that Michael Slager was innocent.

So some clear inner turmoil in that one juror. The other two notes, both from the jury foreman. One of them saying it's just that one juror. The other people, the other 11 jurors are decided already and they're hoping to move forward.

Then the third note from the foreman, perhaps the most revealing saying that the juror was having, quote, "issues." They were clearly having a very difficult time. We're not allowed behind those closed jury deliberation doors for good reason.

But you can imagine with all these notes there had to be a very emotional and heated debate. Ultimately, the judge sent them back in because the jury said that if perhaps they had some more clarification on certain laws they could come to a decision. Eventually, they asked the judge if the trial could be postponed until Monday morning, and he conceded -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Boris Sanchez, thanks so much. Keep us posted from Charleston.

All right, 13 people are dead and homes and lives have been destroyed by a fire in Tennessee. What we know about the investigation and the scope of the damage, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [11:51:49]

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back in the season finale, of "PARTS UNKNOWN," Anthony Bourdain heads to Rome to see how the city's architecture reflects a fascist past.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, "PARTS UNKNOWN": It's not the city of light. That's Paris, right? Welcome to Rome, the eternal city. If you're looking for Rome of antiquity, the coliseum, you're not going to see any of that. You're going to hate this show, in fact, because this entire show was shot in Rome that -- that people live in. Brutalist Rome. What do you think of this style of architecture?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's beautiful. It's essential.

BOURDAIN: Good food? I want to die here already. I was unaware of this phenomenon, this thing. If you're looking for classically beautiful -- do you take it for granted, the coliseum?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I don't even look at it.

BOURDAIN: Tell me about the highway of death. This is not the show for you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, interesting humor. When architecture speaks louder than words. Tune in for the season finale of "PARTS UNKNOWN." This Sunday night at 9:00 p.m.

Meantime, at least 13 people killed in Tennessee. A result of the horrendous wildfires that swept through Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg. Authorities are still combing through rubble in the tourist areas. Dozens of residents have been torn from their families and left with only a memory of what used to be home.

CNN's Polo Sandoval joining us live now from Gatlinburg. What's the latest there, Polo?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, if your home was lost in what is being considered here the worst fire in Tennessee in over 100 years, then this is likely home. It's a sports complex that's adapted and serving as a shelter. About 200 woke up here, displaced, wondering what will come next.

Everything happening quickly earlier this week. Many of them are forced to pick up the pieces, and in some cases have high hopes of rebuilding. A few minutes ago we walked inside, spoke to some of the residents here at the shelter.

And we spoke to a woman in particular describing what it was like as she was fleeing the flames with her husband and some of those pets that she considers family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRISH PANZARELLA, FIRE VICTIM: All that was left. This was a two- story home. It was so burned that if you took what was left and -- you could put it in half a garbage dumpster. That's how hot that fire was. I'm talking these kind of crates -- they're gone. They're just melted beyond belief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: In spite of the loss of property, at least 13 people who sadly did not make it, there is an incredible amount of resilience here. The woman that you just heard from, Trish Panzarella, forced to escape with her husband and about 11 show dogs, six of those hers, five others from her neighbors.

It goes to show how fast they had to pick up whatever they could because chances are what stayed behind was destroyed. Today, the second opportunity that the people have to return home to find out what if anything is still salvageable.

[11:55:11]WHITFIELD: Sad situation indeed. Thank you so much, Polo Sandoval.

And of course for information on how you can help the victims of the Tennessee wildfires, head to CNN.com/impact.

Still to come the next hour, more on breaking news of the deadly warehouse fire in Oakland, California.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Hello again, everyone. Thanks so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. All right, we begin this hour with breaking news, at least nine people dead and another 25 unaccounted for after a massive fire broke out at a warehouse party. This building is used as studio space by local artists.

CNN's Dan Simon is on the scene there. So Dan, what more can you tell us after talking to the Oakland fire chief a short time ago?

SIMON: Well, hey, Fred, what a terrible situation here in Oakland, California. You can see the fire trucks still here on the scene. We've been told that we have nine fatalities, and there could be as many as 25 people who are unaccounted for. That's the latest from the Oakland fire chief.

You can see some of crews here on the scene. They actually can't really do a thorough search inside because the building is said to be structurally unsound. The flames just ravaged a good portion of it and you can see that fire crews here are assessing --