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9 Dead, 25 Unaccounted for After Fire at Warehouse Party; China Files Formal Complaint over Trump/Taiwan President Call; Democrats Demand Review of Trump's Potential Conflicts of Interest; Officials Hold News Conference on Oakland Fire; Trump Attempts to Stop Vote Recounts; Sparks Fly Between Clinton, Trump Campaign Managers. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired December 03, 2016 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[13:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: We were downstairs, about to start painting. And we tried to figure out why the smoke was coming from. Then we saw the fire. It was on the back left corner of the space. I started yelling and trying to get everyone out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: CNN's Dan Simon is on the scene.
You spoke with the Oakland fire chief earlier. What more is she saying?
DAN SIMON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Fred, first of all, firefighters are making their way into the entry of the building, as you see behind me. They're trying to somehow get up to the second floor. That's where most of the people died in this fire. We're talking about nine confirmed fatalities and 25 people feared missing at this point.
This building has totally been ravaged and is unsafe for firefighters really to go inside. They're cautiously trying to clear out some of the debris. This has been described as an artist collective. They were having a party last night. It's a building where people were said to be living.
And this is what the fire chief had to say a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERESA DELOACH REED, CHIEF, OAKLAND FIRE DEPARTMENT: There was some type of party that was going on here when the fire broke out. It's been a report that there's been between 50 to 100 people possibly that were in attendance at the party. A group of individuals were able to escape, some of them have not -- were not able to escape. Right now, we can confirm that there are nine fatalities. But there's still a large portion of the building that needs to be searched. The building was a warehouse that was kind of like an artist studio. It had several different partitions, where they had various artists in there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON: This fire obviously spread quickly. And, Fred, the building must be configured in such a way that made it difficult for people to escape.
WHITFIELD: All right. Dan Simon, thank you very much, in Oakland.
Now to the phone call that is breaking with nearly 40 years of U.S. diplomatic protocol. China is now filing a formal complaint with the U.S. after President-elect Donald Trump accepted a call from the Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen. This marks the first publicly reported call with a leader of Taiwan since 1979. The U.S. did not formally recognize Taiwan as an independent state. Chinese officials fear this phone call may have signaled otherwise.
Trump is downplaying that the call had any further implications, tweeting, quote, "The president of Taiwan called me today to wish me congratulations on winning the presidency. Thank you."
First let's go to CNN's Ryan Nobles, live outside Trump Tower.
So, Ryan, what more do we know about?
RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, because this is something that hasn't happened since 1979, it's obviously raising eyebrows in the foreign policy community. Many people in Washington wondering if this is an example of President-elect Trump's lack of experience, especially when it comes to foreign policy.
Trump's senior advisers bristle when you suggest that the president- elect isn't prepared for this type of activity on the foreign state and claim that the same level of inquiry wasn't put toward President Obama when he took office.
Listen to what Kellyanne Conway told Anderson Cooper last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, A.C. 360: Is there a policy before talking to a world leader or the president of Taiwan that he would be briefed by the state department, or that he would make sure to be fully up on U.S./Taiwan unofficial relations?
KELLYANNE CONWAY, SENIOR TRUMP ADVISOR: You're presuming that he's not. And I don't remember any of these questions ever being asked about President Obama or President-elect Obama.
COOPER: He's never spoken to the president of the Taiwan. So, this is the first time. So, it is new. That's why I'm asking.
CONWAY: Sure. Sure. But as president-elect I'm pretty certain that President-elect Obama spoke to world leaders in preparation for taking over as president of the United States and commander-in-chief. I can't imagine that he was asked here or elsewhere if he had been properly am fully briefed, considering that he had very, very little experience himself -- (CROSSTALK)
COOPER: This is a break with U.S. policy. This is uncharted waters for decades.
CONWAY: Anderson, President-elect Trump is fully briefed and fully knowledgeable about the issues on an ongoing basis, regardless of who's on the other end of the phone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBLES: Trump's senior ad advisers say this is not a signal that the president-elect wants to move away from the policy where the United States recognizes one China, meaning that Taiwan, not a separate and independent state. But this will be closely watched in the early days of the Donald Trump administration.
Now the president-elect has a very busy week. Coming up on Monday, three people coming to Trump Tower, all three rumored to be considered for posts in the administration. Among them, Debra Yang, a current U.S. attorney in California, and two South Carolina politicians, Representative Mick Mulvaney and Katherine Templeton, considered a rising Republican star. In fact, she's considered to be on the short list for nominee for governor in South Carolina as, of course, the current Republican governor there, Nikki Haley, is going to join Trump's administration as the U.N. ambassador in January. Of course, Monday, will be a big day as well because Trump is expected to announce that General James "Mad Dog" Mattis is his pick for secretary of defense -- Fredricka?
[13:05:44] WHITFIELD: Officially making that announcement.
Ryan Nobles, thank you very much.
To talk more about this, Andre Bauer, former lieutenant governor of South Carolina, and he is a Donald Trump supporter.
Good to see you, Andre.
And CNN political commentator, Tara Setmayer.
Good to see you, as well, Tara.
(CROSSTALK)
Andre, you first, let's begin with the phone call with the Taiwan president. What do you believe the motivation is behinds taking the call when for 40 years a U.S. president hasn't done so?
ANDRE BAUER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first, I got a wake-up call for Washington and the media. Donald Trump is not going to follow the protocol that everyone's used to. The American public sent a loud and clear message, they're fed up with it. They want a change.
Look, I'm blessed in South Carolina that we have Taiwanese businesses here, over a $1 billion business in one little rural county. We're blessed. I've been over to Taiwan. I've met with their leaders. Protocol may have been broken. This was nothing more than a congratulatory call. Why wouldn't Donald Trump take that call? We sense. This goes back to '52 during the Treaty of San Francisco when we should have delineated out, then, whose territory it was. But to not take a phone call from a world leader --
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: It's an issue of precedence that hasn't happened, that the U.S. has not recognized Taiwan as a sovereign country, and that Donald Trump, making this phone call --
BAUER: Well, I would argue --
WHITFIELD: -- in diplomatic circles, that's how it has ruffled some feathers.
BAUER: I've got a lot of problems with protocol on Obama's executive orders. I have a lot of problems with protocol with Obama going to Cuba. But we didn't have these discussions. It just kind of - nobody worried about it. So, I'm glad Donald Trump --
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: Oh, we had those discussions, believe me.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: But right now, we're having the discussion about this phone call.
BAUER: I supported Donald Trump because I wanted a shakeup in Washington. I'm tired of doing things the way we've done them in the past. There's no reason why any leader from any country, Donald Trump shouldn't take a congratulatory phone call from. They're not talking policy. They're not talking foreign relations. This is nothing but a congratulatory call that you take. I've been in elected officers many times. People that weren't necessarily my friends call me to congratulate me. It is just an olive branch being bestowed that say, hey, we wish you well in your new role, nothing more than that.
To bend this into something more is wrong. It shows the polarizing of America. And the media, instead of saying this is refreshing -- when Nixon sent Kissinger over to China he was criticized, as well. We extended the olive branch, and are better off for it.
WHITFIELD: Tara, is it simple as that? This is breaking with protocol, this is not winging it, as some critics call it, but instead this is refreshing, says Andre.
TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: With all due respect to my fellow Republican colleague, over there, Mr. Bauer --
(CROSSGTALK)
BAUER: I still love you, Tara. SETMAYER: I know. We still love each other, but I disagree with you
respectfully on this.
Listen, I've also been to Taiwan. I worked for Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, co-chair of the Taiwan Caucus in Congress. He was on the Foreign Relations Committee for seven years. And the relationship with -- between Taiwan, China, and the United States is a very delicate dance. And it has been for a long time, since 1979. This is not just simply taking a phone call from the prime minister of anywhere else. I mean, this isn't Liechtenstein. This is Taiwan. And that region over there, the geopolitical, delicate diplomatic dance that we do in that part of the world is very serious.
Not recognizing Taiwan officially as being its own independent state, not -- even calling it Taiwan makes a difference. They call it the Republic of China. China -- Beijing is very sensitive to how the United States recognizes Taiwan because, as far as China's concerned, they're still part of their empire.
So, we know that there are many issues going on in the South China Sea, in the Taiwan Straits. We know that there's disputes over islands there, the Scarborough Shoal, the Senkaku Islands, what's happening with the Philippines. It's than simple for Donald Trump just to pick up the phone and say, oh, that's great, thank you, president of Taiwan. This is China --
(CROSSTALK)
[13:09:55] So in other words, certain critics are saying he really hasn't been well versed on what is at stake before taking a phone call or even, in other cases, it may have been initiating a phone call.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: But the bottom line is that there could potentially be ramifications that come with not knowing all of the facts.
SETMAYER: Exactly. When he does or doesn't, you know, we have to remember that, yes, it's OK that Donald Trump wants to shack things up. That's why people -- to shake things up. That's why people voted for him. But when it comes to foreign policy, these simple actions can make a difference. Remember the big brouhaha over President Obama and when he was going to shake the hand of the new Iranian president at the U.N.? You know, the brouhaha over Castro and those relationships. We have been very clear about how these types of protocols matter on an international stage. It's not as simple as a phone call from a CEO domestically.
And I think we have to be tougher on China, and I don't have a problem with those things. Even under President Bush, we've been too passive with China. You need a consistent foreign policy doing that. You can't just do it willy-nilly and then figure it out later. There are international implications to that.
WHITFIELD: While you two differ on some things, it seems you agree that Donald Trump is unpredictable, unscripted, anything goes. This is how Speaker Paul Ryan responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PAUL RYAN, (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: He was a very unconventional candidate. He's going to be an unconventional president. What I like about it, in my, like I said, almost daily conversations is he's just a "get things done" kind of guy.
SCOTT PELLEY, CO-HOST, 60 MINUTES: Have you told him being president is not being CEO of the United States? That the Congress is going to have a say?
RYAN: Oh, we've talked about that extensively. We've talked about the Constitution, Article I of the constitution, the separation Of powers. He's felt strongly that under President Obama's watch he stripped power away from the Constitution, away from the legislative branch of government. We want to reset the balance of power so that people, in the Constitution, are rightfully restored.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: This interview on "60 Minutes" tomorrow.
Andre, is that a microcosm that the GOP in general is behind Donald Trump, as unconventional as he might be, but that there is real coalescing and that Paul Ryan's views may represent that?
BAUER: I don't know that Paul Ryan represents the views of a lot of folks who feel like they haven't -- he represents the views of the folks in Washington, and he's very well versed. Donald Trump is an international businessman. He probably understands much better than I do or Tara does the situation with Taiwan. But when they were -- removed from the U.N. in the '70s, it's a much different country than it was then. They have democracy. They have a higher human rights -- than many other countries we deal with. So, it needs to be revisited.
But to take a congratulatory call from any leader, any leader --
(CROSSTALK)
BAUER: -- if it were Putin, he should take a call from anyone.
SETMAYER: Yes, we are strategic partners with Taiwan. We have strategic military alliances with them. At one point, we were training Air Force pilots at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona in an exchange program with Taiwan. There are -- we have economic interests there. Guess what? So, does Donald Trump. His son went Taiwan to explore the possibility of building a hotel there, one of their northern port cities. So -- and now he has -- we have this call and he's just kind of saying, oh, well, it's a congratulatory call. We have to be careful that these kinds of conflicts of interest aren't superseding the proper behavior of an -- of international diplomatic relations with an area of the world that is really, really volatile now.
WHITFIELD: All right.
SETMAYER: And we know that China has hegemonic desires as well and are they partnering with Russia as swell against the United States in that part of the world. This more than just taking a congratulatory call. It matters how Donald Trump handles it.
WHITFIELD: We'll leave it right here. We'll talk later on about the potential conflicts of interest as it pertains to Donald Trump. The president versus Donald Trump, the businessman.
Thank you very much, Tara and Andre. Appreciate it.
SETMAYER: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: We'll be talking to one of the congressmen behind this very push of more that Donald Trump must reveal about his interests around the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:17:15] WHITFIELD: Welcome back. Donald Trump has vowed to cut all ties with his business empire and hand the reins over to his children. The empire is vast with business interests in at least 25 countries around the world.
In a letter to Jason Chaffetz, chairman of the House Oversight Committee, Democrats are demanding a review of Trump's potential conflicts of interest.
One of the Congressmen who signed that is Representative Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania. He's joining me now.
Good to see you, Congressman.
REP. BRENDAN BOYLE, (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Hi. It's good to be back.
WHITFIELD: I'd love to get more detail on the letter you sent. But first, let me ask you about your reaction to this accepting of a phone call that Trump did with the Taiwanese president. What's your view on that?
BOYLE: Yeah, and in addition to being on the Oversight Committee, the other committee on which I serve is the Foreign Affairs Committee. So obviously, we deal a lot with our relations with China and with Taiwan.
I thought the part that was most disturbing wasn't so much the call. The foreign policy analysts can debate the merits of that. His two tweets after the call were the most disturbing. You know, whether one thinks the call is a good idea or not, this is the first time an American leader has spoken to a Taiwanese leader since 1979. Clearly, this call is a big deal. The fact that he tweeted, well, she called me, as if it was no big deal, it was a congratulatory call, that shows a shocking ignorance. I hope this is not a situation where he just stumbles into inadvertently changing U.S. foreign policy. And I have to say for those of our allies around the world and a lot of the national security folks in Washington, both Democrats and Republicans, who are deeply concerned about the knowledge of the incoming president-elect, an incident like last night did nothing to allay their fears.
WHITFIELD: And so does it make a difference in your view that in that tweet-- and hopefully we can have the tweet where he says, you know, she called me, "Interesting how the U.S. sells Taiwan billions of dollars in military equipment, but I should not accept a congratulatory call." That's the second tweet that he said in response to critics. He says he was called by the president. Reportedly, there was a Trump adviser in Taiwan who may have facilitated that call.
What is the real objective in your view to -- and potential gain that you would see Donald Trump having by accepting this call? And there's that tweet you're talking about, "The president of Taiwan called me today to wish my congratulations on winning the presidency. Thank you."
[13:19:58] BOYLE: Right. And that gives the impression -- rather than a tweet saying this is a significant policy shift for the first time since 1979, I'm going to give a speech detailing the reasons why I think this is important. None of that. Just she happened to call me. No biggie. It's is a big deal and hopefully wasn't just talked into it. I know that Trump and his family have extensive financial dealings in Taiwan. They do already have an existing, pre-existing business relationship that I hope doesn't bleed into the foreign affairs of the United States.
WHITFIELD: OK. That's the precipice of your letter, these relations with at least 25 countries around the world, with his 500 businesses. And Donald Trump says that he is going to cut ties, he'll be handing everything over by mid-December. Why do you say it's not enough that his children would be the ones to be running the business, and that isn't separation enough from this president-elect?
BOYLE: We can walk through a couple of simple concrete examples. Right down Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House is the new Trump hotel, which he also leases ---
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: The historic post office building.
BOYLE: The historic old post office building. A 60-year lease signed with the head of the GSA, the General Services Administration. The head of the GSA that approves and negotiates the lease. Donald Trump, as president, will now be appointing the head of the GSA, who in turn will have to negotiate a lease with the Trump organization. That's clearly a conflict.
There's another, and potentially, more serious in terms of U.S. policy. Right now, the Department of Justice is in talks to file a settlement against Deutsche Bank for a number of bad practices to dollars. Deutsche Bank is also the same bank that holds over $2 billion of loans by Donald Trump. So, it's a little concerning that --
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: Is it your view that because his name remains on the business, even though it may be run by his daughter or his sons, that there is still some influence and interest that Donald Trump would have in the successes of these --
(CROSSTALK)
BOYLE: Correct. There's clear influence and interest, personal interest that he would have. And also, unlike all of the previous presidents, Democrats and Republicans, who have put their holdings into a blind trust, this by definition cannot be a blind trust. He knows that the Trump Organization -- whether he may technically remain the owner or not, he knows the Trump Organization that has the hotel at the old post office building. He knows that it's the Trump organization that right now is being sued by a union that's attempting to organize, and that decision's going to be made by the NLRB, an NLRB that he's going to appoint.
So, these are a number of conflicts that he has. Unless he and his family completely liquidate their holdings whatsoever, completely sell it off, these will be unprecedented conflicts that the president of the United States will have.
WHITFIELD: OK. We're going to have to leave it right there.
Congress Brendan Boyle, thank you very much.
BOYLE: OK, thank you.
WHITFIELD: We're continuing to follow the breaking story out of Oakland, California, with this tragic fire. Let's listen in right now.
SGT. RAY KELLY, ALAMEDA COUNTY, CALIFORNIA, SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: I'm not prepared on to throw out numbers at this point, but we're prepared for several dozen fatalities as a result of this fire. We don't exactly know how many. We can confirm we have nine deceased. That number we expect to go up once we go inside and begin to move things and look around inside. So, I can only confirm for you at this point that there's nine people deceased.
Here's what we need to do, here's the message we need to get out, we have a family notification and assistance center set up at our Alameda County building. That location is 2425 East 12th Street in Oakland. It is several blocks from here. At this time, we are getting our phones up and working because we know we have families that are concerned, that live outside the bay area. They live in other states. And we have people that live in other countries. So, those folks can call 510-382-3000. We're getting the necessary personnel to staff those phones. You can call with that. We have a lot of reports of missing people. We have people that may have been here at this building and then left. And then since, have not talked to family. So, there's families that are worried about them. They may be sleeping now, haven't had a chance to call a loved one. We're trying to make sense of all the chaos.
As we move forward, you'll see a unified command, an organization in this process. We will brief the media every hour at the top of the hour. At 11:00, we will be back here at this location to brief you. We will be releasing a joint message with the pertinent information on it from the city of Oakland. It will have the numbers and family notification center and what people can do. We will also update you on social media via Twitter. You can familiar -- you can familiar us on social media, Twitter, the Alameda County Sheriff's Office and Oakland Police Department. We will be doing that.
We'll take questions now briefly.
[13:25:29] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 25 people initially reported missing. Nine confirmed dead. Is there overlap, or are you -- what do you know about the missing so far center.
KELLY: There could be overlap in our missing calculation at this point. We're not sure. We're prepared to deal with up to, you know, 30, 40 deceased people. I don't -- like I said, I'm not her to put a number on that. I can only confirm nine at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are you still looking for identifying markets? On social media, people have been reporting, people what they were wearing, what they're hearing, that --
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Yes, yes. And that will be muscle moving forward dealing will be helpful moving forward and deeming with families. This will be helpful to us and for families in doing identification.
JOHNNA WATSON, SPOKESPERSON, OAKLAND POLICE DEPARTMENT: And, Kristen, you brought up an excellent point. There's a lot of conversation --
KELLY: Can you come to the mic?
WATSON: Kristen, you brought up an excellent point. There's a lot of conversation taking place on social media. Where we need those conversations about identification, about somebody who may or may not be inside this building, is where we need them to funnel that the information to the sheriff's office as Sergeant Kelly recommended. We would like to facilitate the families who are wondering is their loved ones inside there or not. We want to help bring closure and identification. Please, with social media messaging that's going on, we need to direct that to the phone banks, we need to direct that to the location that the sergeant put out, so we can help everyone in this process during a very difficult and trying time.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Johnna, is this a crime scene that happen --
(CROSSTALK)
WATSON: The Oakland Police Department has not deemed this a crime scene. This is still very much primarily the Oakland Fire Department. We're here in a support role. We're here working together in unity, all of the agencies. Again, this is a tragic event, our hearts go out to not only the counties but the community. A lot of people have friends, loved ones. We're sensitive to what is going on, and that's why the sergeant mentioned that we'll certainly keep you updated every hour on the hour. Even if we don't have information now update you with, we'll certainly come out here and let you know and we'll also be pushing through media channels.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Hold on.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What are they doing now? Are they going on the building and searching?
KELLY: Right now, we have the fire department shoring up the building, making sure it's safe. Shortly, you'll see -- we're going to put up drones, UAS, unmanned aerial systems. We'll use those to see if there are more hot spots. We'll address the hot spots. At that point, once the building is somewhat safe for us to go in, our coroner's personnel will begin the recovery process. After this recovery process happens, we'll need to figure out, moving forward, what the cause of the fire is, and that's -- that will be in the coming days.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are the deceased in a common area?
KELLY: We're hoping we'll be able to go in in the next hour or less. So --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Any sense about how the building was laid out and what events were going on last night? More than one - (INAUDIBLE) --
WATSON: We would like to describe the you. We're not ready to do that yet. The reason why is because the roof caved into the second floor, and there's a lot of interior -- we'd like to leave that to the fire department.
As the sergeant said, earlier, we're going to have a press conference. And a lot of details and more information as we move throughout the day will be learned. So, we'll be happy to provide you with any information as we can.
But there is an extensive damage inside the building, very difficult to visually see. So probably have to refer back to city planning apps.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: And that's another thing we reported. As part of this other we'll need to talk to people who were in there that may have seen things. We're not there now. Right now, we're in a make the scene safe, let's make it secure, let us do our jobs. The roof has collapsed down onto to the second floor. So, we have to literally go in piece by piece and move wood and debris to get an assessment. To be done, still. [13:30:00] We'll be back in an hour to talk to you, at about 11:00.
And then we'll be putting out a statement from the city and the county in regards to this.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
KELLY: Oh, I am Sergeant Ray Kelly. I am the spokesperson for the Alameda Sheriff's Office, which we're dealing with the coroner, as well. We run our coroner's bureau, which deals with this massive fatality event.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you tell us today about -- (INAUDIBLE)
KELLY: The fire started about 11:30 last night. This fire -- we've been on scene since. The fire has recently been extinguished. We're dealing with the hot spots and making the building safe so that we can go inside and begin to recover the deceased people and begin to establish what occurred inside that building.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
KELLY: We don't know. We know that there obviously are people here. A lot of people are young people that were inside this building. They're from all parts of our community. We believe there's people from outside the bay area, that there may be foreign nationals here. There's people from this -- this affects throughout the area.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What about mannequins? Did the artists maybe have mannequins?
KELLY: That has been brought up. We're aware of that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPROTER: Were they together or in different part of the building? Were they found together or in different parts of the building?
KELLY: What's that?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Were they found together or in different parts of the building?
KELLY: Different parts.
So, at this point, we're going to cut off this press conference. We'll see you at 11:00 at this location. We'll have more information then.
Thank you.
WHITFIELD: An update from officials. Tragic situation in Alameda County, Oakland, California. You're looking at images from a two- story warehouse, and also known to be an artist studio that burned overnight. It's believed upwards of 100 people may have been in the building. Confirmation from Alameda Sheriff that nine are dead, many injured. They're preparing for a mass casualty event. There may be more deaths. Our Dan Simon is in Oakland.
What more can you tell us, Dan?
SIMON: Well, Fred, I guess the thing that set out to me, and you made mention of it, is that they are preparing for this a mass casualty event. At this point, I think it's safe to assume that they don't know what really they're looking at. They can't even get inside the building. They were able to get basically a few feet inside, but as for rest of it, it's deemed unsafe at this point. So, we're talking about 25 people who are unaccounted for, and you know, so that adds up, you're talking potentially 34 people dead. But you know, they're obviously being cautious about it. There's a coroner's trailer here where, presumably, they can remove the bodies. Just a tragedy that unfolded here.
I want to make mention of a phone number that people outside of the area can call if they're concerned about their loved ones. That number is 510-2-3000 510-382-3000. If you fear that your loved one is missing or you haven't been able to get in touch with your family member or friend, that's the number you should call.
Another thing that I found interesting, Fred, is that authorities are going to use a drone that they're going to deploy above the building to look for potential hot spots. So, that would allow them to pinpoint where they may need to use additional water to put out the flames. But, boy, talk about just a tragic situation that unfolded last night.
WHITFIELD: Horrible situation. All right. So, sad. Of course, our hearts and prayers are going out to the families of all of those who were at that warehouse.
Dan Simon, thank you very much.
We'll take a short break. We'll be right back with much more NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:38:03] WHITFIELD: More developments now that horrific fire there in Oakland, California. Nine confirmed dead. Another 25 still unaccounted for after a massive fire broke out at a warehouse party. And now the county sheriff is telling CNN that they are preparing for the worst which could be up to 40 people dead.
Joining us on the phone now to help us understand how they fight fires like this, how they investigate further, Sergeant Cortez Stafford, with the Atlanta Fire Rescue Department. Also with us, CNN's Dan Simon, who is on the ground at the scene there in Oakland.
So, Sergeant, let me begin with you.
This is a very difficult blaze, an investigation to move forward on. We heard from the county -- the Alameda County sheriff who said there are still hot spots with this building, they can't completely penetrate and get into this building to try to attempt any rescues or even recoveries.
From your expertise, give us an idea how the fire department would embark on a challenge like this.
SGT. CORTEZ STAFFORD, ATLANTA FIRE RESCUE DEPARTMENT (voice-over): Thank you. First things first, is that we have to make sure that the building is safe for us to operate. We're now at what appears to be a recovery operation for Oakland fire. So, before we could -- before nay can go back in and get those other victims out, they want to make sure that the fire is completely out and that the structure is safe for them to operate at.
WHITFIELD: And Dan Simon is with us, as well. He's there in Oakland.
Dan, you reported earlier that they will be using drones to try to tackle part of that problem. Explain more on how they're going to do that.
SIMON: The drones with thermal imaging technology so they'll be able to see if there are hot spots. It will be helpful, perhaps, in assessing what areas may be safe to enter. We know there has been some partial group collapse. We have seen firefighters on top of the building, basically on a peek inside.
What an awful situation, Fred. We know that most of the victims were on the second floor. That's apparently where the gathering was taking place. It was a large gathering. Maybe 50, up to 100 people there for this holiday party. There was music being played and the fire spread quickly.
[13:40:31] WHITFIELD: And then, Sergeant, the use of this tool, a drone, to try and look for those hot spots to help guide firefighters. Is that a technique and a tool that the Atlanta Fire Department has used? If so, how helpful is it?
STAFFORD: That's not something we're using now. We have some plans to do some amazing research on those drones. I must say that the fire-fighting, the technology that we're using is moving toward the future. Right now, you have to get in there and get your hands dirty and still get in and put the fire out. But the way we have things going on right now with technology, the advancement of the drones, technology, infrared systems, we're moving toward the future of fire- fighting, and it involves more than just getting in and getting our hands dirty. It appears the gentlemen using the drones are trying to bet a better perspective on the situation before they go back in. Right now, there's no reason to rush to get back in there to put people's lives in danger or themselves in danger. They want to make sure they do this meticulously and investigate the situation and try not to destroy any more evidence to figure out what started the tragic fire.
WHITFIELD: So, Dan --
STAFFORD: And that's what they're working on now.
WHITFIELD: Yeah. I'm sorry about that. So, Dan, you know, this clearly is a very urgent matter. But there
was any indication that it may take hours more before firefighters can really get in there? Could you tell from those officials who were just talking?
SIMON: They said they hope to get in there within an hour or less. What it's going to take for them to determine that, it is in fact safe for them to enter, I'm not entirely sure. Hopefully, they'll be able to get in in the next hour or so and then determine if in fact there are more bodies inside. Certainly, they are preparing for the worst as they've described it. They've described it as a mass casualty event.
WHITFIELD: And any more detail about how this building was used? Is it confirmed that people did live there, as well as it was an artist's studio?
SIMON: The fire chief thinks that people lived there. She's not entirely sure about that. I think that's based upon what some of the witnesses have said when they left, and perhaps they have been able to ascertain the information in terms of belongings inside. This was primarily an artist's collective. We had studios in there, people making art, all kinds of equipment we were told, mannequins inside. But given the fact that the bay area has such high rents, it would not be surprising that the people use the it to take place to crash, if you will.
WHITFIELD: And Sergeant Stafford, how much information would the fire-fighting teams know about a structure before they actually get there? Meaning know when it was a -- strictly a workplace or residence or what activity may have been taking place so that they can best do their jobs?
STAFFORD: That's a great question. Firefighters are professionals which means they train to do their jobs. They prepare for their jobs. They're training when they're not out on call. I'm sure at some point these guys in Oakland had plans or looked at the territory that they cover. They look at the situation of the buildings around the territory, and they say, what would happen if this building was on fire, what would happen if we had an incident or emergency at this building? You can never predict where and when it will happen. You can train best for the situation. I don't know exactly what -- what types of building this was of. For instance, the age of it, the structural components. I'm sure the people have seen this before. They may have done a walkthrough of some kind through the building to get an idea of something that would have once again, it's so hard to -- tolan for situation like this. Such a tragic event. I'm sure those guys are working hard.
[13:44:58] WHITFIELD: We know they are.
Sergeant Cortez Stafford, Atlanta Fire Department, and Dan Simon there in Oakland, California.
We'll be right back.
Thanks very much. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Welcome back. Nearly a month after the election, and recounts are either underway or set to begin next week in three battleground states, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. The challenges comes courtesy of lawsuits filed by Green Party candidate, Jill Stein, who is financing the effort. This, as Hillary Clinton's lead in the popular vote grows to almost 2.5 million, with votes still being counted. The Trump campaign and his supporters are fighting back, filing lawsuits of their own to stop the recounts. That includes Wisconsin, where Trump is leading by just under 23,000 votes, or 1 percent.
That lawsuit was brought by the Great America PAC, and its co- chairman, Eric Beach, is joining me live.
Hi, Eric.
Thank you very much for being with us.
All right --
(CROSTALK)
ERIC BEACH, CO-CHAIRMAN, GREAT AMERICA SUPER PAC: Thanks for having me again.
WHITFIELD: So in your case, you have tried to contest this recount. But the recount will move forward. What is your view in terms of what may potentially happen next?
BEACH: Sure. You said Jill Stein was financing the effort. But in actuality, you know, Wisconsin's going to pay close to $4 million to three states combined, paying close to $10 million. It's a waste of taxpayers' money for a candidate that isn't even the aggrieved party. If Hillary Clinton wants a recount, she has every right within the federal statute. You know, at this point I think this is an effort by Jill Stein, probably manipulated by other special interests. And we fought very hard, both as a PAC and Mr. Trump fought very hard to make sure that every vote was counted, which it was, on November 8th.
WHITFIELD: What harm would it do to have a recount because this is something, you know, can typically happen for any city, just about?
[13:50:06] BEACH: Sure. We had a process in place. It was called an election. That election certified that Donald Trump was the winner of this election. But, again, --
WHITFIELD: What if it were the other way around with a 1 percent margin? In it were the other way around, wouldn't you see that Trump would probably ask for a recount?
BEACH: It wasn't a 1 percent margin for Miss Stein. It was a 1 percent for Hillary Clinton. If she wants a recount, she should be the aggrieved party.
WHITFIELD: Is it about who is asking for the recount?
(CROSSTALK)
BEACH: Not only that, but the voter integrity and accepting election results. If the shoe was on the other foot, per your point, we would be asking Donald Trump, as we did in the third debate, why he was complaining that the election wasn't a fair process. This election was a fair process. Donald Trump was elected with over 300 electoral votes. I think it's time to unite behind our candidate.
Look, from a political standpoint, I hope the Democrats and Miss Stein keep going. As they continue to embarrass themselves through this process and don't have a path for the next four years or a vision for the next eight years, that bodes well for us.
But from a legal standpoint, this is about voter integrity. The votes should be counted, as they were. It was a fair election. It is time to move on and unite behind Donald Trump.
WHITFIELD: All right, Eric Beach, appreciate your time. Thanks so much.
BEACH: Thanks for having me.
WHITFIELD: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Welcome back. This week, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton's campaign managers shared a stage, addressing the roles of Russia, fake news and media coverage of the 2016 election. Jake Tapper's interview with Kellyanne Conway and Robby Mook marks the first time the two have appeared together since the election. As you might have guess, they offered very different views.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[13:55:00] ROBBY MOOK, FORMER HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN MANGER: What happened with Russia here, we cannot have foreign aggressors intervening in our elections. We know that the Russians were promulgating fake news through Facebook and other outlets. But, look, we also had -- and this is with all due respect to Kellyanne and her colleagues. This isn't personal. Steve Bannon ran "Breitbart News," notorious for peddling stories like this. I am not attacking him personally. But they peddled a lot of stories on that website that are false, are not true, that reinforce sexist, racist, anti-Semitic notions in people. Headlines just are shocking and insulting and shouldn't be part of our public discourse.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, THE LEAD & CNN ANCHOR, STATE OF GTHE UNIOIN: Kellyanne?
KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP SENIOR ADVISOR & FORMER CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I think the biggest piece of fake news in this election was that Donald Trump couldn't win. So, there is that. And that was peddled probably for weeks and months before the campaign, definitely, in the closing days. If you look at major newspapers and major cable stations and networks, Jake, it is unmistakable.
TAPPER: I never said he couldn't win. I said it was a competitive race.
(CROSSTALK)
CONWAY: I didn't say you did. No, no, no. I'm saying - but particularly, print stories. We have colleagues who, in all respects, some in this room that represent outlets. If you go back and pull the whole front page --
(CROSSTALK)
CONWAY: It is unbelievable. But that's fake. It is based on things that just aren't true. They have no path, no ground game. She has more money. She has more personnel. She can't possibly lose. Of course, the growing narrative, which I'm not going to -- the persistent narratives, I am not going to repeat here, but they essentially boiled down to Donald Trump takes the wings off of butterflies.
And that -- America said, there is a difference between what may offend me and what absolutely affects me. I, as a voter, am going to go that way and vote as to what affects me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Let's talk more about all this with Brian Stelter, CNN's senior media correspondent and host of "Reliable Sources."
Let's discuss this issue of fake news, how big of a problem it might have been and how the sides see it very differently.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR EMDIA CORRESPODNENT & CNN HOST, REALIABLE SOURCES: Some of this calls to mind the George Orwell book "1984," the Ministry of Truth producing lies and propaganda. We talk about fake news, there's so many definitions. I would define it as sites that are trying to trick you. Sites that are meant to trick people. Those are the spammy things we see on Facebook and Twitter where headlines are made up.
What happened before the election? We know millions of people saw these fake, made-up stories. What we don't know is exactly where they came from. Did some of the come from Russian sources the way Robby Mook is saying there. It seems like some of them did. Others were made up by kids that were trying to make money by having people see ads. Did these sites sway votes and changes hundreds of thousands of votes? Did they change hundreds of thousands of voters' minds? That is hard to know. It demands more research.
At the same time, Kellyanne Conway in that interview is saying, hey, fake news, the biggest piece of fake news is that Trump couldn't win. A lot of reporters and journalists were relying on polls and experts that did turn out to be wrong. There was a collective failure, that's to be sure. Those journalists were trying to get it right and trying to do their best. There is a big distinction between Russia and other foreign news
agencies creating fake news stories versus other journalists trying to get it right. It's a fascinating discussion ---
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: It is, indeed. A clear distinction, these two sides see it very differently. You have to wonder how long will this carry on? Is this going to be the issue or one of the issues that clouds this administration during that four-year term?
STELTER: I think it absolutely will. There is a great announcement by "Buzzfeed" of all the tweets that Donald Trump posted and all the news websites he linked to. Some were made-up websites. Most weren't but some were made up websites. He often linked to "Breitbart" as Kellyanne Conway and Robby Mook mentioned, a far-right-wing website, often times, accurate, but sometimes very inaccurate. So, a checkered history for that website. So, what we know about Donald Trump is that he does rely on sources that are sometimes quite dubious. Looking forward to the next four years, it will be an issue for journalists to help our audiences understand when something is too good to be true or too bad to be true.
WHITFIELD: And some wonders whether some of those sources also helped instigate some of his tweets. Sometimes they were blatantly wrong and sometimes he was shooting from the hip.
STELTER: We have to fact check more than ever.
WHITFIELD: Brian Stelter, thank you so much.
STELTER: Thanks.
WHITFIELD: Be sure to watch Brian's show, "Reliable Sources" tomorrow morning at 11:00 a.m. eastern right here on CNN.
Coming up at the top of the hour, we'll take you back to Oakland, California, where, at any moment now, we're expecting other update from officials on that deadly warehouse fire. Nine people killed, 25 still unaccounted for. The very latest on the next hour of the NEWSROOM.
