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NEW DAY SATURDAY

China Blames Taiwan For "Shenanigan" Trump Call; Trump Picks General James Mattis As Defense Secretary; Thirteen Killed, Dozens Displaced Around Gatlinburg; Bullied Teen Kills Herself in Front of Family; Insults Fly When Trump, Clinton Aides Meet at Harvard; ISIS Leaves Toxic Legacy with Burning Oil Wells. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired December 3, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00] MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: The city of San Bernardino held a series of memorials for the victims yesterday, including a night of remembrance, which you're looking at there.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: All righty, stay with us. We are heading into the political arena with you as well as the courtroom.

SAVIDGE: That means the next hour of NEW DAY starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even before taking office the president-elect of the United States of America has in one phone call potentially changed more than three decades of U.S. diplomatic practice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trump speaking by phone with the president of Taiwan, which is something no American president has done in nearly 40 years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there was an expressway to cause a diplomatic up war with China, this would be the way to do it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President-elect Trump is fully briefed and fully knowledgeable about these issues on an ongoing basis because he's on the other end of the phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some much larger than a breach of protocol. If the United States does not recognize Taiwan as a country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Chinese will certainly see this as an infringement on what they see as their sovereignty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: If you're just waking up, happy Saturday and thank you for sharing some of your time with us here. We always appreciate it. I'm Christi Paul.

SAVIDGE: I'm Martin Savidge in for Victor Blackwell. Taiwan on line one, hardly sounds like fighting words, but apparently it is in under 50 days until President-elect Donald Trump enters the oval office, he is already tearing up the diplomatic script in Washington. PAUL: Yesterday, he spoke on the phone with the president of Taiwan. That breaks with nearly 40 years of U.S. diplomatic relations with China. Well, this morning, China is calling this, quote, "A shenanigan staged by Taiwan."

Trump's transition team says President Tsai of Taiwan offered her congratulations to the president-elect on the phone. They also talked about the, quote, "Close, political, economic and security ties that exist between Taiwan and the U.S."

SAVIDGE: But get this, no president or president-elect has spoken directly with the leader of Taiwan since 1979. That's when America began adhering to what it calls the one China policy meaning that they consider Taiwan part of China.

PAUL: This comes after Defense Secretary Ash Carter recently called the region, quote, "The most consequential for America's future." In September, Carter also said the U.S. will, quote, "Sharpen its military edge there in the face of Chinese territorial expansion on disputed waters in the South China Sea.

Our team of reporters are standing by for the very latest on this. I want to begin with CNN's Jessica Schneider live at Trump Tower in New York this morning. Jessica, what are you hearing from there this morning at this hour?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Christi, it is the telephone call that has bucked nearly four decades of diplomatic tradition and protocol. Donald Trump did take to Twitter insisting that this 10-minute phone call was initiated by the Taiwan president, however the apparent backlash is already being seen.

China has, in fact, reached out to the White House and a spokesman from the Foreign Ministry of China has released a statement. I'll read it to you, saying, "I must point out that there is only one China in the world and Taiwan is an inseparable part of the Chinese territory.

The People's Republic of China is the sole legal government that represents China and that is an internationally recognized fact. The one China principle is the political foundation of the China/U.S. relations. We urge the relevant side in the U.S. to adhere to that one China policy."

Now, of course, China views Taiwan as a renegade province and the U.S. has long recognized Beijing's claim that Taiwan is part of China. But Donald Trump is bucking this. He took to Twitter in a second tweet last night saying, "Interesting how the U.S. sells Taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment, but I should not accept a congratulatory call."

Trump's top adviser, Kellyanne Conway, also speaking out about this controversial phone call. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP SENIOR ADVISER: But again, I can't discuss anything beyond what's been publicly said. I won't do that and this is the president-elect. This will be his administration. He'll be commander-in-chief and he'll be president of the United States imminently now. He either will disclose or not disclose the full contents of that conversation, but he is well aware of what U.S. policy has been.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: So Trump's team is totally backing this phone call, but in the past few hours we've been hearing from lawmakers, diplomats, former ambassadors saying that this breaks with diplomatic protocol and it could be a dangerous position for the United States -- Martin and Christi.

PAUL: Yes, Martin and Christi here, thank you. Hey, Jessica, other than those tweets that we've heard from Donald Trump, and of course, we heard there from Kellyanne Conway, just to reiterate, Kellyanne Conway is basically saying that this is not making policy and Donald Trump saying -- is he essentially saying was I supposed to reject the phone call? But it's not as though you just call the White House and you get Donald Trump, right? It makes you think there was some sort of preplanning here.

[08:05:03]SCHNEIDER: Right. Well, the Trump team is defending this phone call, saying that this isn't a change in policy. This is just a phone call between two leaders. Donald Trump saying that he was called. That it was a 10-minute phone call that was initiated by Taiwan's president.

So right now the Trump team isn't giving much more than that. Kellyanne Conway not saying much last night. Donald Trump not saying much in those tweets, but to defend himself in a sense saying that he was called first and that, of course, pointing to the fact that the U.S. has sold Taiwan arms over many years --Christi.

PAUL: Jessica Schneider, we appreciate it so much. Thank you. I want to talk with CNN political commentator, Hilary Rosen, she was a supporter of Hillary Clinton, and Brian Robinson, a Republican strategist and former assistant chief of staff for communications for Governor Nathan Diehl. Thank you both for being with us. We appreciate it.

Hilary, I want to ask you, when we were talking about Donald Trump's tweet there, how he said interesting how the U.S. sells Taiwan billions of dollars in military equipment, but I should not accept a congratulatory call. Does he have a point?

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, no, because what he's doing is clouding the fact that actually a member as it came out yesterday of his transition team who has been a pro-Taiwan advocate actually arranged for this call to happen, so it was preplanned.

I think two things are interesting here. And I should preface this by saying, you know, when he's president wants to be tougher on China, I'm OK with that. If he wants to relook at the China/Taiwan policy, that's his right as president to do that.

But we just learned that he actually has some business interests in Taiwan and that there have been Trump Organization developments there over the course of the last few years, so we need transparency about that.

And then, you know, the second thing is this kind of constant need for congratulations that he keeps talking about is so unseemly. You know, if he could take a congratulatory call from an alien on Mars, this guy would be talking about it as this great, you know, moment of the day.

I do believe that there's this kind of feeding the beast that in essence we are subjected to that really gets in the way of thoughtful policy.

PAUL: Hilary, you mentioned the business ties to Taiwan, but he has business ties to China as well, does he not?

ROSEN: Well, apparently so. That's why transparency here matters and we don't know what he has more financial interest in. We don't anything about the activity and the goals. And so again, you can't be in this situation where you've got no staff. You've got no official read-out of these conversations. You've got no secretary of state. You know, this flying by the seat of the pants has some risk for the American people.

PAUL: Brian, does that part of this conversation in terms of his business ties, how much of a problem might that be for him when it comes to how voters will continue to see him, to trust him, to put faith in what he does over the next few years?

BRIAN ROBINSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think we just addressed that. He's got business interests in Taiwan and in China. The fact that he's willing to do this suggests that he's not so worried about his business interest in Mainland China. That he's willing to do what he thinks is best for the American people.

PAUL: But why was accepting this call the best thing to do?

ROBINSON: Well, he said on the campaign trail --

ROSEN: The call was engineered.

ROBINSON: He said last year that we are tired of being bullied by China. They manipulate their currency. They prop up and corrupt dangerous nuclear arm regime in North Korea and we're not going to get pushed around anymore. Taiwan is our ally. They are a democracy over there less than 500 miles from Mainland China.

We are obligated by law to defend Taiwan if China attacks them. Yes, we recognize the one China policy. Trump has said that we will continue to support a one China policy, but all this has done is break with symbolism. It doesn't break with policy. The policy is the same.

PAUL: Hilary Rosen and Brian Robinson, I'm sorry we ran out of time. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us. We are glad to have you here.

ROBINSON: Thank you.

ROSEN: Take care.

PAUL: You too.

SAVIDGE: It's not the only surprise. We weren't supposed to find out until next week --

PAUL: But then Donald Trump told the crowd at his victory rally who he has chosen to be his defense secretary. Next, the challenges General James Mattis could face and how he could influence the president-elect.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:12:53]

SAVIDGE: Donald Trump's pick for secretary of defense is already winning praise from the man he will replace, that's the current secretary of defense, Ash Carter. He says that he holds General Mattis in the, quote, "highest regard."

Mattis also won praise from members of the military including several who served under him during the Iraq war, and it was during the Iraq war, at least in the opening stages, I was embedded with U.S. Marines and so they were under the command of General Mattis then.

I was also with Marines in Afghanistan that were under Mattis at that time. Let's talk about the voice that Mattis could bring to the Trump administration. That's what many people are focus on. We are joined now CNN military analyst, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. Good to see you, sir.

LT. GENERAL MARK HERTLING (RETIRED), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good to see you, Martin.

SAVIDGE: I should point out you're a former Army commanding general for Europe and the Seventh Army. General Hertling, we know that this pick has gotten really a lot of praise and one of the reasons I heard from my Marine friends almost the moment that Trump uttered the name, they like it very much too because they see him as a good sort of military counterbalance to Donald Trump. Would you agree?

HERTLING: I would and I'm a big fan of General Mattis myself. We were together not -- I didn't serve for him, but we were together in Iraq the same time you were embedded with him. I was over in Baghdad with the first armor division and he is an extremely capable and exceedingly great tactical and operational battlefield commander.

That's critically important because the troops will love him for that. And when I say troops, I'm talking about all those in the Pentagon and outside the Pentagon around the world when he is chosen for secretary of defense. But there are other things that are involved with being the sec-def as it's called. There will be some challenges to be sure that he'll face.

SAVIDGE: One of the things that I know from being with the Marines in those two theaters, what they love about him, plain spoken. He came up with the phrase, no better friend and no worse enemy, but he also has that line about be polite, be professional and then have a plan to kill everybody in the room.

[08:15:03]He sort of talks about that duality of war there that you must have a discipline, but there is also a time that you have to act on aggression. It seems that many people might be worried he is too hawkish. What would you say to that?

HERTLING: I would say that's not the case. He is a student of military operations and campaigns to be sure. But Martin, the thing I keep pointing out is that there's an old saying that says those who have seen war are the ones who are most prone to avoid it.

And I think General Mattis will give that voice in the room of when we go after national security concerns. At times in the past, the military arm has been the first one thrown forward.

I think General Mattis will say, hey, we've got to make sure it's a true national security concern before we unleash the dogs of war, as it was. But when we do, we better mean business as opposed to doing things in a more haphazard way.

SAVIDGE: Right. I too found that the Marines were expressing that he is not necessarily a general that will initiate getting you into war, but if war does come, he is the one you want to have planning and fighting it that's for certain.

HERTLING: Yes, that's the phrase I've heard that Mattis is like Patton because you keep him behind that glass door that you just break glass when you need him and he comes out, but that's his military style. He has also run large organizations, not only Central Command, which is concerned with all of the countries in the Middle East.

But he also ran joint forces command which in Norfolk when it existed -- it's since closed down, but that was the organization that was looking at the future of war fighting. And as the secretary of defense, he will be facing more challenges than just ISIS and terrorism.

And in fact, there are some that would say today the military faces really five different -- very different kinds of fights that they could potentially be involved with. Anywhere from a nuclear war potentially with North Korea to asymmetric war in Europe against Russia and protecting the NATO allies.

And General Mattis knows all those elements of warfare because as part of his job as Joint Forces commander and he's written a book recently about civil control of the military that he wrote with a few other people, he understands these kind of things that he'll be given charge of by Mr. Trump.

SAVIDGE: He's no wall flower, that's for certain, and he's going to push back against Donald Trump. There were two areas I see where I see where he could run into friction with the Trump administration, one is Iran and whether or not tear up the agreement and two as you already mentioned, Russia, right?

HERTLING: No. That's correct. But also he's going to be giving advice on the commitment of the military arm. As the second in command of the military, you know, he is in that chain of command between Mr. Trump and all the forces throughout the world and the different combatant commanders.

That's a critically important point for him to be in. But the other piece is he has to run that business of the Pentagon. A military that's been in war for the last 16 years or so and there is a lot of things that have to be re-greened and renewed.

Not only acquisition programs but personnel costs, the budget, how we size the force according to what the new administration wants to do. Those are all very challenging roles for the secretary of defense.

SAVIDGE: Let's talk before I let you go about the business of the Pentagon and I won't say it's unique you have a general, it's happened before, but what about his experience he brings to the business at the Pentagon?

HERTLING: Well, I think he will probably choose undersecretaries that will contribute to this who will be businessmen. It's usually been either a senator or a governor or a businessman that's run the Pentagon. Now that you have a former soldier who has run large organization and who knows the military, that I think will give Mr. Trump an advantage on who he has in the Pentagon.

But he's going to need the business acumen as well. He'll need the folks who understand acquisition programs, who understands research and development of technology, who truly understand personnel costs.

Just yesterday I saw that 13 female soldiers were just commissioned into the armor force of the United States Army. There is a dissing of the military saying a social place. That's not true in my book, but it will some of the things that he'll face.

SAVIDGE: Well, we appreciate it, General, very much. Again, speaking from my personal experience of seeing General Mattis' leadership, if you're afraid that Donald Trump will go on without anyone standing up to him that is not General Mattis, he will speak out.

HERTLING: I agree with you wholeheartedly, Martin.

SAVIDGE: If he sees something that is not right. Thank you, General, very much.

HERTLING: Thank you, Martin.

PAUL: As firefighters are still battling wild fires in Tennessee, there are some residents who have been able to get their first chance to head home to see what's left. We're going to show you. Stay close.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:23:31]

PAUL: For the first time since these destructive wild fires have swept through Tennessee this week, there are some residents getting a chance to return home. And for many, take a look at what they're finding. Man, that's all that's left.

SAVIDGE: That's the amazing thing. I've covered many wild fires, unlike floods and tornadoes, they usually find something. Wild fires consume almost everything with the exception of jewelry. The wild fires around Gatlinburg damaged hundreds, hundreds that is structures and at least 13 people were killed, but that number could rise as firefighters keep searching through the rubble.

CNN correspondent, Polo Sandoval, is live in Gatlinburg. Polo, good morning to you. What can you tell us about the people that are still missing because there are a number of those?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Martin. But an exact number, that's hard to actually determine that's because the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation has only said that they have followed up on at least 150 reports regarding missing people. That doesn't necessarily mean that there are 150 people who haven't been seen or heard from since.

So as we wait for that agency to provide an update, I can tell you we went to a nearby shelter outside the perimeter here in the nearby city of Gatlinburg and we have seen many people who are basically waiting to find out what comes next.

We also found a bulletin board there that is covered with paper notes. These have been left behind by relatives who are hoping to hear from their loved ones. The concern here, as you mentioned a few moments ago, Martin, the death toll of 13 could potentially rise as the search and recovery efforts continue now several days after the flames swept through the region.

[08:25:05]Meanwhile, you hear from some of the families who are displaced this morning who are calling these shelters home, including Laurie White, who we met just yesterday just outside of the city of Gatlinburg.

She described what it's like fleeing and described what it's like not knowing what may come next for her and her fiance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORI WHITE, DISPLACED BY FIRE: Maybe that's something everybody needed. I was talking to a lady from church last night, we're all asking why? Why did this happen? Her and I both pretty much at the same time said because it brought everybody together from all walks of life. We're all in the same situation right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: We found no shortage of hope at that shelter while we spoke to the folks who are at this point quite frankly sleeping in a gym until they find out what comes next. In the meantime, it really is a waiting game for not just White, but so many others just like her, at least 200 others who are displaced at this moment.

They are waiting to find out when they'll be able to make their way back into the devastated region. This is as close as we can take you at this point because of this police roadblock. However, in two hours or so it is expected to open providing some of the residents here with their second chance to see what, if anything, actually remains.

Yesterday was the first time they actually made it closer and saw that widespread devastation that you see in the video.

PAUL: All right, Polo Sandoval, thank you so much for bringing us the latest there.

SAVIDGE: Donald Trump has been talking to world leaders including the president of the Philippines, who you'll remember insulted President Obama earlier this year. We'll tell you how that conversation went next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: It's about 8:30 on a Saturday morning. Hope you're able (inaudible) a little bit. I'm Christi Paul.

SAVIDGE: And I'm Martin Savidge in for Victor Blackwell.

[08:30:00] PAUL: Let's talk about Donald Trump because he's scheduled to have a quiet weekend apparently at Trump Tower. There are no meetings, no events on the agenda as far as we know. A day of course, though, after he set some alarm bells in Washington because he took a call from Taiwan's president.

Now that's the first known contact between a U.S. president or president-elect and the Taiwanese leader since the U.S. and China established diplomatic relations back in 1979.

SAVIDGE: And you may be wondering, what, a phone call, big deal. Well, actually it is a big deal. That one move could undo four decades of U.S. protocol on Taiwan and then it risks infuriating China over its One China policy which claims Taiwan is part of China. But it's not just Taiwan. According to the Philippine President Duterte, Trump said that Duterte is going about his fight against the drug lords, quote, "the right way." That's a very violent fight. The same President Duterte who also, by the way, insulted President Obama. Washington has been critical of the Philippine government's executions of drug dealers without the benefit of judicial proceedings.

So let's bring in Stephen Collinson, who's the CNN Politics senior reporter, and Gordon Chang, "Daily Beast" columnist and author "Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes on the World."

Stephen, let me start with you. Trump's call from a leader of Taiwan, really a breach of protocol here or was it just a mistake or is he subtly trying to send a message to China? What's your favor on this?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER: That's -- the answer to that question we don't really know, Martin. It's certainly a clear breach of the protocol and practice of the way U.S. relations with Taiwan and China over the Taiwan issue have been conducted for 40 years. I think it's too early to say yet whether Donald Trump is previewing a new emphasis and approach in the U.S. policy towards Taiwan. That I think is something we're only going to learn when he becomes president.

But I think it's very interesting. Donald Trump if you think about it, he built his political career and his campaign on breaking norms and conventions of American politics. It worked very, very well in the domestic political context. The question is he going to pursue that approach as president.

I think this incident is clearly a sign that when you do that on the international stage, on delicate issues of diplomacy and relations with other countries and the framework of American foreign policy you could lead yourself into areas you perhaps do not want to go and create crises that perhaps could be detrimental to the early months of the Trump administration.

SAVIDGE: All right. Well, Gordon, let me bring you in here. His call, meaning Donald Trump's call to the Philippines leader, this is the same man, of course, who insulted President Obama. It caused him to cancel a formal meeting that he had planned. Is Trump's phone call kind of a snub now to Obama?

GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR, "NUCLEAR SHOWDOWN: NORTH KOREA TAKES ON THE WORLD": I don't think so. I think that this really is an outreach to an ally that we have. You know, we've had troubled relations with the Philippines for quite some time and it looks like the Philippines is going to defect to China and maybe to Russia. And I think what Trump is trying to do is to reel it back in.

And this is a message to Beijing, just as is his call with Tsai Ing- wen, the Taiwan president. So this I think is part of a deliberate policy which really is to take the initiative from China. Too often, you know, we've let the Chinese create crises. I think Trump right now has decided that the United States should be in charge, not Beijing.

SAVIDGE: Mm-hmm. Good point. Stephen, when we talk about Duterte's relationship, you know, between the U.S. has been extremely rocky at times and as we've already mentioned he is pursuing these possible alliances with Russia and China. So given that, do you think that this chat by Trump is fruitful, is really a good thing?

COLLINSON: I think it's certainly going to sort of add to the questions that are already taking place in Asia about exactly how Donald Trump is going to approach the region. The Obama administration spent the last eight years trying to improve relations with the Philippines as a bull work against China and the rise of China in the region.

Now clearly with the President Duterte's new administration that has all shifted and everything is up in the air. So it's true that Donald Trump could be trying a different strategic approach to pull China back -- to pull the Philippines back from China, but at the same time, according to the readout from the Philippine government, President- elect Trump invited President Duterte to the White House. That would be seen in many quarters as an endorsement of the manner in which he's gone about this war against drug lords and drugs in the Philippines which has led to 4,000 deaths, extrajudicial killings.

And it raises the question, in the pursuit of its wider strategic goals, is the United States under the Trump administration going to sort of turn a blind eye to these sort of human rights violations, not just in the Philippines but elsewhere in the world?

[08:35:02] SAVIDGE: And elsewhere in the world, I'm glad you brought that up, because let's talk about that phone call with Pakistan, their prime minister, the office there is saying that Trump apparently called their leader, quote, "a terrific guy," and said that his country is, quote, "amazing with tremendous opportunities," unquote. There comes the business side of him out.

Do you think that comments like this, Gordon, will harm the overall relationship with India, which of course is not a real close friend of Pakistan?

CHANG: Yes. I think that this comment was a mistake. One of the most important things that George W. Bush did and one of the most important things that his successor did was to really bring this outreach to India to fruition. And I think that the partnership of the world's most populist democracy which in about two or three years will become the world's most populist country that partnership with the world's most powerful democracy is really an important one.

I think that this is -- talking to Pakistan in these terms is not going to help that relationship and indeed we need be friends with India. Our relations with Pakistan have been troubled and getting worse. I think that we should write Pakistan off and really make a commitment to New Delhi, because that would help us in a number of different areas.

SAVIDGE: And, in fact, Trump has sort of implied the same thing. He sent a mixed message. But that's another time.

Steve Collinson and Gordon Chang, thank you both for joining me this morning.

CHANG: Thank you.

PAUL: Well, heartbreaking story out of Texas to talk to you about. A teenager takes her own life after years of bullying. Well, her family is hoping to turn their tragedy into some life-saving lessons for all of us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:10] PAUL: Well, one Texas family is really hoping to turn a horrible situation that happened to them into some lessons for the rest of us here. 18-year-old Brandy there, look at her here, she killed herself this week in front of her family. Can you imagine? Relatives say Brandy reached her breaking point after cyber bullies targeted her. That this happened for years, they say. Sending her nasty text messages, setting up fake social media accounts under her name.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACQUELINE VELA, BRADY VELA'S SISTER: They would make dating Web sites of her and they would put her number and they would put her picture and lie about her age and say that she's giving herself up for sex for free, to call her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Her family says they reported the bullying to school officials. They went to the police more than once, but they were told that there was nothing police could do. Now their hope is that her death can lead to some strict laws and more awareness of the dangers of cyber bullying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAUL VELA, BRANDY VELA'S FATHER: This is something new. This is something we need to figure out and work through and try to find how to be able to stop what people are doing with social media.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Let's talk to criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos.

Danny, thank you so much for being here. This family says that they reported the bullying to police and they say the police told them the suspects used an app that wasn't traceable. So first of all, can these apps -- these unanimous apps be shut down?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: They can by the people who run the apps, but it is difficult not only to investigate who is using the apps because it would require police to get subpoenas, search warrants and these companies might oppose them depending on who they are. But as an additional problem, it's very difficult to have laws and enact laws and prosecute cyber bullies because in many cases you'd be trying to prosecute what is otherwise protected free speech.

And as long as speech is in a public forum, it can be nasty, it can be mean, it can be racist, it can be almost anything short of the exceptions to free speech like threats and fighting words. But for the most part --

PAUL: OK. But this family certainly, Danny, has to look at this and say putting her -- creating Web sites with her image, asking for the things they were asking for, that's not free speech.

CEVALLOS: No.

PAUL: That's using her image, so is there not some form of defamation that could come into play here?

CEVALLOS: Certainly. That's -- now we're getting in -- when you start using somebody's image without their consent, now you're getting into invasion of privacy and misappropriation of somebody's image. And yes, things can be done about that. The reality is, is that -- and I'm not speaking for this particular law enforcement agency, is that many law enforcement agencies won't place that high of priority on people -- something they perceive as sort of cat fishing someone, or putting their face up on social media because a couple different reasons.

They may not prioritize it in that agency and they simply may not view social media as the real threat that it can be, especially to young people.

PAUL: So we've got families say that are sitting here and they're watching us right now and they're having similar issues with their children, with a sister, with anybody, what do you say to them? How do you protect yourself? What do you do?

CEVALLOS: Well, they did the right thing and re[port -- this family did the right thing. They did report it to law enforcement. I don't know the particulars of why law enforcement really couldn't prosecute, but schools have an increased ability to police speech. Students do not have coextensive rights of free speech as do adults. Schools can regulate speech, especially if it makes its way on to campus and disrupts the classroom or constitutes an invasion of another student's life. So schools have a little more power in this area and schools can regulate and even discipline students for speech that makes its way on campus.

PAUL: So in this case, is the school liable in some regard?

CEVALLOS: That's a difficult --

PAUL: Well, we don't know that it came on to the campus. So I mean, when it's done via the Web, if the police aren't going to do anything, and you go to the school and the school essentially I'm going to assume, Danny, you're going to say, well, if it's not happening on campus, it's not our problem.

CEVALLOS: It's a difficult analysis because, first, most government agencies have enjoyed a degree of immunity and then you have to ask, well, what school -- what duty did the school have in policing? Certainly they can discipline students for on-campus speech, but to say that they're strictly liable for any speech that makes its way on to campus is an entirely different thing. They may have the power to police and the authority, but they don't necessarily have an absolute obligation to keep schools completely free of nasty speech because that would just be an impossible obligation.

[08:45:11] PAUL: All right. Danny Cevallos, thank you so much for walking us through it.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TATS NKONZO, COMEDIAN: Downtown Johannesburg in South Africa, under a bridge, surrounded by the coolest art. The kind of city where you find treasure in the most unlikeliest of places and that is exactly why I love this place.

What would you say make the Johannesburg graffiti scene cool?

JO BUITENDACH, PAST EXPERIENCES GRAFFITI TOURS: Johannesburg has become a really big graffiti city, meaning that people are coming from all over the world to paint here. So we've got a lot of international artists. Plus our amazing local artists. And so the city is ending up looking like a huge canvass.

NKONZO: I am at the rooftop of Randlords, which for me has the best view of the city. This is our concrete jungle where dreams are made of. People love to come here for the sunsets, just to take it all in.

[08:50:05] Another thing I love about Joburg is obviously the night life. We are heading into Kitchener's. We go to this bar once a week, it's comedy night.

And that is just a little snippet of what Joburg is all about. But hey, you can always come check it out for yourself. See you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Well, what was supposed to be a peaceful meeting of the mines among some of the country's political elites, it evolved into a war of words.

SAVIDGE: Well, it just shows you that there's a lot of bad blood that still exist. Clinton aides blasting Trump's camp for, quote, "providing a platform for white supremacists." Trump's top aide firing back at them, calling them bitter.

Our Randi Kaye has more on the raw emotions inside meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The two-hour panel discussion at Harvard University was supposed to cement the 2016 campaign in history, instead it added a new chapter. It got ugly fast with Hillary Clinton's campaign director of communications Jennifer Palmieri accusing Trump's team of elevating the beliefs of white supremacists.

JENNIFER PALMIERI, HILLARY CLINTON'S COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: The platform that they gave to white supremacists, white nationalists and I think as you know, his presidency goes forward, I'm going to be very glad to have been part of the campaign that tried to stop him.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP SENIOR ADVISER: Hey, Jen, do you think -- hey, Jen, do you think that I -- excuse me, do you think I ran a campaign where white supremacists had a platform? Are you going to look me in the face and tell me that?

PALMIERI: It id. Kellyanne, it did. I would rather lose than win the way you guys did.

KAYE: Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway insisted that wasn't true. Then turned up the heat.

CONWAY: Do you think you could have just had a decent message for the white working class voters?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys are pathetic.

CONWAY: Do you think this woman who has nothing in common with anybody --

PALMIERI: I'm not saying that's why --

CONWAY: How about it's Hillary Clinton? She doesn't connect with people? How about they have nothing in common with her.

KAYE: Listen to Clinton adviser Mandy Grunwald weigh in.

CONWAY: To coin a phrase --

MANDY GRUNWALD, CLINTON'S SENIOR COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: I don't think you give yourself enough credit for the negative campaign you ran.

KAYE: She accused Trump's aides of turning out fake news stories about Clinton.

GRUNWALD: There is a world that many people were watching where Hillary Clinton was dying for months of Parkinson's. She's, you know, just got days to live. She's going to jail. She's going to jail any minute now.

KAYE: Conway shot back.

CONWAY: Do you think that's why we -- that's why we won over 200 counties that President Obama won?

GRUNWALD: No --

CONWAY: Is that how we turned those counties?

GRUNWALD: Take the compliment, Kellyanne. I'm trying to --

CONWAY: I would if it were one.

GRUNWALD: I give them credit. We gave you the material to work with, Comey gave you the material to work with. KAYE: Comey, as in FBI director James Comey. Clinton's advisers

Thursday night suggested his interference in the e-mail scandal in the final weeks of the campaign cost her the election. Clinton's team was quick to point out she won the popular vote by a landslide.

JOEL BENENSON, SENIOR STRATEGIST, CLINTON CAMPAIGN: The fact of the matter is, is that more Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than Donald Trump. So let's put it in total context --

CONWAY: And there was nothing that said the road to popular vote anywhere.

BENENSON: Kellyanne --

CONWAY: It's the road to 270.

BENENSON: Kellyanne, I'm not --

KAYE: Conway told Clinton's aides their own message did them in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He trafficked in race-baiting --

CONWAY: Oh my god, you called him a sexist, a racist, a misogynist, xenophobic daily.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He trafficked in race-baiting and fear- mongering.

CONWAY: And it blew back on you because it's not an aspirational optimistic message. How in the world do we have a female candidate whose closing arguments were so negative? Where is the uplifting aspirational visionary message of Barack Obama or Bill Clinton?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This country --

CONWAY: Guys, I can tell you're angry, but wow. I mean, hashtag, he's your president.

KAYE: Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL: And make sure that you tune into "STATE OF THE UNION." Both campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway and Robby Mook, on that show. That's "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper, Sunday, 9:00 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

And do stay with us here. What you're looking at there, a bird's eye view of the toxic legacy ISIS has left in Iraq. Yes, it has been pushed out of the city, but look at what's left for these people.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:57:25] PAUL: Well, the battle to drive ISIS out of Mosul is still ongoing, but just to the south of Mosul, one town is still suffering even though ISIS left months ago. SAVIDGE: Phil Black has more on the terror group's toxic legacy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As ISIS retreated from this territory it transformed the landscape into this apocalyptic vision. The group blew up and set fire to 19 oil wells near the town of Qayyara. We don't know the motivation. More ruthless vengeful destruction or perhaps the hope it would provide cover from air power above.

The fires have burned since August, lowering the sky, concealing the sun, layering the earth and people's lungs with toxic black filth.

(On camera): The heat coming off this fire it is incredible. It's melted much of the ground around the well. The air, it is thick and foul. It really tastes terrible. It makes your eyes water. This is the poisonous atmosphere that people in this part of Iraq have been breathing in and living with for months.

(Voice-over): There's now a desperate effort to fix the wells. But lead engineer Itkhlaf Mohammed tells me it's a difficult complex process. He says you can't just put the fire out because that would release vast amounts of deadly fumes.

First, earth-moving equipment is used to contain the fire and channel the flowing, bubbling oil into reservoirs. Then workers dig down through the flames while trying to keep the oil and their equipment cool as they haul out mounds of smoking sludge and earth.

Gaze through the flames and you can see the fire's red-hot core. They need to get through all of this to find the head of the well. Only then can they determine the extent of the damage and what must be done to close it.

Workers here say the nature of the job is always challenging and dangerous and in the beginning, they had to cope with ISIS as well.

This man says you'll be trying to dig out the fires and they'll be shooting at you. You'll be using the hose and mortars will start coming in.

The group also left mines around the burning wells. Most haven't been cleared yet. It's too early to accurately estimate the value of the wasted oil or the cost of the repair work. The final figure will be many millions of dollars.

The human cost is more disturbing. Families live beneath the towering columns of smoke and a sky that always feels like twilight. Children's faces and hands are stained by the same air they breathe. A dark shadow now hangs over their health, their future, because of yet another toxic legacy left behind by ISIS.

Phil Black, CNN, Qayyara, northern Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)