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Trump's Reaction to Access Hollywood Tape; CNN's Top Ten Heroes of 2016; Clinton Trump Campaign Managers on Election Night Plan; Trump Threatens U.S. Companies With Tax Penalties; CNN Heroes, Redefining Disabled in Columbia; Construction of Dakota Pipeline Re-routed; Fire Swept Through Crowded Late Night Party in Oakland, California; Vice President-Elect Defending President-Elect's Decision to Take Phone Call from President of Taiwan; Jon Huntsman, 2012 Presidential Candidate and Former Ambassador to China Candidate for Secretary of State. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired December 04, 2016 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:03] JOE JOHNS, CNN HOST: Hello. Thanks for joining me. I'm Joe Johns in for Fredricka Whitfield.

We begin this hour with breaking news. The death toll now stands at 30 in the Oakland warehouse fire. Officials there are expected to give an update in the next hour on the continuing recovery efforts. Here's what we know so far. Officials say this is now the deadliest fire in the city's history. The coroner asking family and friends of possible victims to preserve items that may contain DNA to help with identification. Some of the victims were transgender and officials working with the transgender community to identify those victims in the way they would be want to be identified.

So far, the recovery has been pain staking. In the past 12 hours only about 20 percent of the building has en searched.

CNN's Stephanie Elam is in Oakland for us.

Stephanie, it really sounds like this recovery process is proving to be very challenging.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very challenging and very slow. They are going through the building, what's left of it, very methodically. In fact, you may hear behind me a little bit of generator buzz and that is because in the most recent update, officials say that they are now dissecting the building and pulling out parts getting in the way and may have survived the fire so that they go in and search through this debris and also search and find any more victims that m be there.

And to that point, we did hear sheriff saying from Alameda County saying that some of the bodies are easily identifiable, others are not. And to that point, listen to what Captain Melanie Ditzenberger had to say of what they are asking family to do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. MELANIE DITZENBERGER, CORONER, ALAMEDA COUNTY: I'd like to ask the loved ones of the missing to preserve sources of DNA and that could be hair brushes, combs or toothbrushes. We ask that those items placed in a secure, clean paper sack. Do not send them to the coroner's bureau. We will ask for them as we need them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: So this goes to the point that some of the people in there, there may not have been enough to identify for them by, they said for some people, they will look for dental records. They will look also if they had I.D. on them. That would help them out, as well. But for others, they are going to have to do this with this DNA matching process. And so for those people to identify them, it takes weeks, Joe.

JOHNS: Weeks to identify people who were in that building just the other day and all this happened. Do we have some sense as to how long this process is actually going to take, Stephanie?

ELAM: Well, that's what they are saying. They thought it might be faster but looking at how this building collapsed, the roof fell in on top of the second floor, the fact that there is all this debris where a lot of people have been found and they have only gotten through 20 percent of the building, they are taking their time. And so, they are actually going shovel by shovel, bucket by bucket. It is about a dozen people in there. Moving the debris out and looking for people.

And if you notice, if you can look behind me, you can see that they have it block off so you can't see what's happening and that's because there's still in a recovery mode here. They are still looking for more bodies, more of the people who lost their lives here. And so that's why they have it that way. Just a very, very grim situation here in Oakland, Joe.

JOHNS: That's for sure. Thank you so much for that, Stephanie Elam.

Joining me now is arson investigator John Lentini.

And John, at this point in the process what we haven't talked about yet, at least so far is the cause, the cause of this fire. What are investigators doing to try to get at that after they've finished the recovery?

JOHN LENTINI, ARSON INVESTIGATOR: Well, not a whole lot they can do unless there is something that like an electrical device that went south. They are not going to find much. It's very difficult to determine even where it started in a situation like this because the building became fully involved. And it has been the conventional wisdom that you look for the deepest char.

Well, this whole thing is very deeply charred. And the deepest char just means where it got the hottest and that's probably because of the ventilation that happened late in the fire. So, this looks like a very, very difficult scene to investigate. They are going to have to get some heavy equipment to get all that metal roof structure out of there. And they will go through it very carefully. And of course, one thing they will do is bring in some canines to see if they can smell any evidence of accelerants.

JOHNS: So, listening to what you just said, it would make me think there's a possibility they won't find a cause. Do you think they will find a cause? And how long do you think the process could take?

LENTINI: Well, once they get through with the recovery aspect, they can move pretty quickly. once you're not concerned about, you know, damaging the remains of the victims then you can move pretty quickly. It is just that there's a very good chance they will not find a cause or if they do it will be contested.

[16:05:11] JOHNS: In other words, there will be people who dispute that that was the cause they seized on?

LENTINI: Correct.

JOHNS: OK. All right. So now we know some things about this building. With e know there are pictures online of what it looked like inside before the fire and we know that there were some citations apparently from inspectors who came and saw things that were wrong. Is there anything about this particular building that stands out to you?

LENTINI: Yes. This building had no business hosting 100-plus people. They had turned it into a place of assembly. And the rules for places of assembly are different from warehouses. My understanding is that the only stairway from the first floor to the second floor was a makeshift stairway made out of palettes. And I can't think of anything more dangerous that they could have made the stairway out of. Pallets are, you know, a mixture of fuel and air. And it's a wide open stairway. And you don't have open stairways like that in places of assembly.

So this building was being used illegally. And I don't know what the authorities knew about it ahead of time but those stairs themselves I'm surprise that they even allowed that in a warehouse.

JOHNS: Sure it sounds that way. And we are looking for the authorities to give us some sense about the violations of law that they believe existed there. But -- and there's even some stuff On the Record but we will wait for the determination from the authorities which will be the final word.

Thanks so much for that, John Lentini.

Now, terrible situation in Oakland and everybody wants to help. If you want to help those families affected by the fire, head to CNN.com/impact and check it out.

Turning to politics, Donald Trump in a Twitter storm this morning, doubled down on his threat to American businesses to send jobs overseas. We are going to have some details after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:10:13] JOHNS: OK. Arguably it is one of the most important roles in a president's cabinet and Donald Trump is going to interview even more candidates for a secretary of state this week. His senior adviser tells CNN the search is actually expanding.

Meanwhile, the president-elect is announcing more proposals that he hopes will save American jobs. He has doubled down on the threat against companies that move operations abroad. In a series of tweets, he writes, quote "any business that leaves our country for another country fires its employees, builds a new factory or plant in the other country and thinks it sale its product back into the U.S. without retribution or consequence is wrong."

Also today, vice president-elect Mike Pence giving more details about Trump's headline-making phone call with the president of Taiwan.

So let's go to CNN's Ryan Nobles outside transition headquarters, Trump tower.

Ryan, what is Mike Pence saying?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, for the most part, Joe, the vice president-elect is defending the president-elect's decision to take that phone call from the president of Taiwan. He said that really there's been much too made about the phone call. Listen to what he said this morning on NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think the conversation that happened this week with the president of Taiwan was a courtesy call. She reached out to the president-elect and he took the call from the democratically elected leader of Taiwan. And it is one of more than 50 telephone calls that the president-elect has taken from and made to world leaders in the midst of a historic pace and cabinet appointments and senior appointments, building a legislative agenda. Even traveling the country and saving 1,000 jobs in the state of Indiana. And it is all a reflection of the tremendous energy and I think it is the kind of approach that you're going to see him bring to challenges at home and abroad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: Pence, of course, seems to be making an argument that this is just standard practice. But, of course, this phone call is much more than standard practice. It is the first time a phone call like this has happened since 1979 and it already has the Chinese government concerned. A lot of formal complaint with the White House.

And Pence was pressed on whether or not this is a signal that the Trump administration may move away from the one China policy that the United States has had for some time. He said that we will talk more about specific policy after January 20th when Donald Trump is inaugurated president - Joe.

JOHNS: OK. So we got to talk about this one name that's been floated out there in the continuing almost soap opera over who will be his pick for secretary of state and that name is former Republican presidential candidate Jon Huntsman. Do we think that Huntsman is a serious choice or perhaps the name is out there to show he's also looking at moderates?

NOBLES: Well, it's interesting, Joe, that Jon Huntsman's name would pop up at this point, especially the day after the phone call with the president of Taiwan and this renewed speculation about the approach to China because Huntsman is an expert when it comes to the country of China. He was the ambassador there during the Obama administration. So he knows a lot about this very delicate relationship. But at this point the transition team tells us that Huntsman is being considered but there's no indication this he is a front-runner at this point. We know that the Trump team is really expanding the list of potential candidates and that he is going to spends more time deliberating this pick than what we originally thought. His advisers have told us that he had it gone to four candidates and was going to make the decision soon. It's clear that there's a much broader list that he is going to draw from. And, Joe, it could be another two weeks before we know the next secretary of state is.

JOHNS: Fascinating. And just the thought that there might be yet another name coming down the pike. So a lot of room to stand out there and see what's happening.

Thanks so much for that, Ryan Nobles.

NOBLES: Thank you, Joe.

JOHNS: And you will hear from Jon Huntsman himself on CNN tomorrow when he sits down with Wolf Blitzer. That conversation at 1:00 p.m. eastern.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:18:07] JOHNS: So you heard before the break, president-elect Donald Trump expanding the field of names he is going to be interviewing for secretary of state. Here is what senior adviser Kellyanne Conway told reporters this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISOR/GOP POLLSTER: Well, it is true that he has broaden the search. And the secretary of state is an incredibly important position for any president to fill. And he has, you know, he is very fortunate to have interest amongst serious men and women who all of whom need to understand that their first responsibility of secretary of state would be to implement and adhere to the president-elect's America first foreign policy. And be loyal to his view of the world.

So, he continues. He continues to talk to different people. I think you have seen the list. This week additional interviews of other candidates for secretary of state and other cabinet position and deputy cabinet positions, as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: OK. So let's just tee up a few of the candidates we know about starting with the new face of today. 2012 presidential candidate and former ambassador to China, Jon Huntsman.

So, Brian Morgenstern is a Republican strategist and Ellis Henican is a political analyst.

Brian, let's start with you. Is it just a coincidence that Jon Huntsman name is being floated one day after the controversial phone call with the Taiwanese president?

BRIAN MORGENSTERN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Maybe not or maybe it is just fortuitous timing. Look. Having Huntsman in this conversation does make some sense. He was successful governor. He was the ambassador to China. He obviously is familiar with these issues. I think the campaign or the transition team having conversations with him about these issues makes a heck of a lot of sense.

In terms of his prospects for becoming secretary of state, I'm not so sure because Governor Huntsman, you know, was President Obama's ambassador to China. It may not necessarily be an advocate of an America first foreign policy. Unless, you know, his views sort of evolve where he can persuade people on the team that the views are the right ones. I'm not sure he would be a front-runner for this job but it makes sense that they are talking to him.

[16:20:23] JOHNS: And Ellis, sounds like Trump's transition team really isn't any closer to making a decision on the issue of secretary of state. And our supervising producer here in Washington Kevin Bond (ph) made the point he has been around the horn a few times, he said they have a long list and if they can't make a decision maybe they don't like the list?

ELLIS HENICAN, POLITICAL COLUMNIST: Maybe. Maybe. And I'll give you a couple of other thoughts on Huntsman, if you want. He is a Mormon with youth talk and actions. If you wanted to send a message to Mitt, hey, you are not the only moderate Republican-Mormon that we know. Kind of get under his skin a little bit. I'm not saying that's happening but it is part of the dynamic here.

The weird part about the whole thing, though, is that you have all these candidates. He supposedly leading candidates and you tell me what they have in common. They all have different philosophies, different backgrounds. You got a pit bull like Rudy Giuliani. You got a Republican kind of normal guy like Mitt. You got General Petraeus who comes with a whole other set of advantages and disadvantages. If there's a rational part to this process, I'm not smart enough to figure out what it is.

JOHNS: Yes. It is tough going, especially this time of year.

Brian, OK, let's turn now to Trump's renewed threat against job outsourcing. We have this 35 percent penalty he says he wants to impose for companies that send jobs abroad. Is it really feasible to do something like that? MORGENSTERN: He may face a head wind in Congress on that. And we

have already seen statements from people like Senator Ben Sass from Nebraska who points out that this sort of a policy, you know, while popular rhetoric also carries with it some side effects which would include, you know, taxes that would be passed down to consumers and paid by American families in many instances and the cost of goods would increase.

And so, you know, taking account of those side effects is going to have to be a part of any plan if he wants to get this passed. And like I said, I mean, the Republican Congress may have some issues with this.

JOHNS: Sure. And Ellis, look. We have seen carrot and stick from Donald Trump. He is using threats. He is also using financial inducements like the Carrier thing. And the question, though, I think is, which one is more likely to see more of, the threats or the inducements? And which do you think is more effective?

HENICAN: Well, there will be all of them and they will be colliding with each other. I mean, seriously, what is the guiding rationality? Right? We know that if you go and impose 35 percent tariffs on selected companies who do something legal that you don't like, I mean, there are all kind of legal issues wrapped up in that. It is not remotely conservative. I don't know how Republicans in Congress ever get their arms around it.

And my God, the economic implications of it. You know, what are the other side have to do in response? What does that do to international economic situation? I mean, it is just -- I get the sense that he is just saying a bunch of stuff at this point and it is impossible to know whether it's change of policy, political sloganeering or whether it actually amounts to anything. I don't think we know.

JOHNS: And you are right. And we probably won't know until after he takes the oath and actually gets in there and starts running things. I do know that on Capitol Hill there is a little bit of heart burn about this idea of imposing tariffs and such on companies.

Anyway, thanks to both of you so much. Good the see you on a Sunday afternoon. Brian Morgenstern and Ellis Henican.

MORGENSTERN: Good to see you, Joe.

JOHNS: Thanks.

HENICAN: You, too.

JOHNS: More politics next. Campaign managers from both sides dissect the bruising battle including the bombshell that many thought was a nail in the coffin for Donald Trump, the jaw dropping "Access Hollywood" tape. More on the moment the campaigns heard about it and how team Trump fought to get past it, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [16:27:19] JOHNS: OK. We are watching the west coast awaiting an update from officials on the investigation into that horrific warehouse fire in Oakland. So far, authorities have told us 30 people have been found dead. And they're asking the loved ones of people thought to be missing to preserve the DNA of those individuals so they can be identified. A very grisly story and an update coming out of Oakland sometime today.

Nearly a month after the election, there is still proof that we are living in a very divided country as if we needed it at all. Campaign managers from both sides sat down to dissect certainly one of the most bitter and divisive campaigns of our lifetime. On the topic list, Russia's influence in the election and the moment that may have turned the tide in Donald Trump's favor.

Here's CNN's Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Are you at all concerned by the fact that intelligence agencies say that Russians were hacking in to the email accounts and the email servers of the DNC and John Podesta and that it may have had --

CONWAY: I just don't know it to be true.

TAPPER: Well, somebody has.

CONWAY: People have been gone on TV and saying that the Trump campaign knew this. The Trump campaign was involved.

TAPPER: I'm not saying that. But the intelligence agencies testified to that fact.

ROBBY MOOK, HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN MANAGER: It is a fact, Jake.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Admiral Mike Rogers who president-elect Trump is interviewing for a potential job said it, as well. I mean, they are clearly a foreign actor was doing it. Assuming that it's true --

CONWAY: I don't assume it's true because they don't know it. You are the one who quoted from WikiLeaks, I didn't.

MOOK: Seventeen national security agencies have said this is true. It's true.

CONWAY: Look.

MOOK: And --

TAPPER: I don't understand why you're reluctant to acknowledge that the intelligence agency are saying it.

CONWAY: I'm not reluctant to acknowledge it. That's not the question you asked me. But I'll tell you that we are not pro foreign government interference if that's what you're asking.

MOOK: I got say this. It is outrageous that a foreign aggressor got involved in our election. It's got to be investigated and it should never, ever happen again in our history.

TAPPER: "Boston Globe" recently ran an op-ed of a woman named Diane (INAUDIBLE). She was hired by your campaign to study undecided voters in battleground states to talk to them every week and find out what they were thinking. She wrote that there was one moment more than any other where she saw undecided voters shift to Donald Trump. It was not the Comey letter, it was when Hillary Clinton referred to the basket of deplorables. She made that comment on September 9th. Did you realize at that that time that the comment that she made was as potentially damaging as this one study by somebody who worked for your campaign says it was?

[16:30:08] MOOK: First of all, Hillary apologized right away after that and said that she misspoke and that she regretted the comment and that is something that Donald Trump wouldn't do for...

CONWAY: She didn't say that. She said she regretted putting a number on it.

MOOK: The choice of words. But Donald Trump never apologized to keys or contents.

TAPPER: I mean I'm talking about Hillary Clinton right now.

MOOK: Sure, but...

CONWAY: That is what they do.

TAPPER: You both do it.

CONWAY: Yes, but we won.

TAPPER: True.

MOOK: But I think, look, you are talking about one instance where Hillary Clinton said one thing. She immediately explained that she regretted...

TAPPER: So, you don't think it --

CONWAY: I think she regretted getting caught. Be honest.

MOOK: I think he definitely could have alienated some voters and that is why she got out there right away. Look, here is the other thing I will to say, though. I was proud the day after the election that Hillary Clinton said in her speech that Donald Trump is the President- Elect and that he deserves the benefit of the doubt and that the chance to lead and we all need to give him that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOE JOHNS, CNN NEWSROOM SHOW HOST: Ok. But if you think back during the campaign, there was arguably no bigger bombshell than that "Access Hollywood" tape featuring Donald Trump bragging about sexually inappropriate conduct with women. Kellyanne Conway now takes us inside the moment and the fight to keep it from destroying the entire campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Who told Donald Trump about the tape? Who watched it with him? What was his reaction?

CONWAY: Oh, we were in debate prep and one of the members of the team came in and took some of us -- a few of us out and showed us. We didn't have the tape for a long time, we only have the transcript. And so, but anyway, you know the rest. Donald Trump decided he would like to put out a video of apology and he did that night. And two days later was the, less than two days later was the second debate in St. Louis, and he carried forward with that. I will tell you if you look at the polling, that incident affected Donald Trump's numbers much more significantly than the Comey letter affected Hillary Clinton's numbers. That is just a fact. You can go back and look at the data and not early voting really under way on October 7th as opposed to when it was already been banked by October 28th. A lot of folks have voted already by the time the Comey letter came out three weeks to the day.

MOOK: Wow, probably 80 percent to 90 percent of the electorate had not yet voted when Comey letter came out.

TAPPER: They had Hillary Clinton popping a bottle of champagne.

MOOK: That was ridiculous.

TAPPER: Was -- but was that your reaction? Did you think, oh my god, this is done, and this is over?

MOOK: Not at all. That was not in fact, I Remember the meeting I was in when that news came out was we were dealing with WikiLeaks. And that was something that our campaign stolen e-mails, what the Russians are leaking out, we are dealing with that every day and we stayed focused on that. I thought people -- anybody who was popping champagne bottles was just wrong. And in fact, again, I Remember we put out a video two weeks out from Election Day saying we can lose this race and we got to rally and we got to work hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Oh, and to be a fly on the wall on that moment when Hillary Clinton called Donald Trump to concede the election, especially since Clinton didn't make any public comments that night. Here's more on that historic moment, including the planning that went into it before election night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: John Podesta came out and spoke to supporters saying that Hillary Clinton was not going to have any comments that evening. A lot of people were surprised there was not going to be any seeming closure that evening given the fact that it was apparent that Donald Trump had won. We know now that President Obama called Secretary Clinton and said you need to concede. She did call Donald Trump and she did concede. The next morning, she was going to give her concession speech and it took a couple hours before she got to the stage and gave the speech, much celebrated speech, praised by everyone. What was going on behind the scenes?

MOOK: Well little fact checking there.

TAPPER: Please.

MOOK: Well, we set the time for that speech the night before. We wanted to give our people time to show up and be there and get through security and so on. It's not as if that speech was delayed. We set that time maybe 4:00 if the morning.

TAPPER: The impression is she is having a tough time with this.

MOOK: No.

TAPPER: Certainly understandably so. No?

MOOK: No. And I fact some of this reports, like Kellyanne I am not going to get into private conversations that were had. She made the decision to call Donald Trump. No, before...

TAPPER: She didn't do that, because President Obama told her to?

MOOK: She made that decision on her own before she spoke to the President and she made it because she believed and she had said during the campaign that it is important to our democracy that whoever wins that their opponent concede the election and be supportive of them becoming President-Elect. So she acted in good faith with that.

CONWAY: And that is true. We had arranged ahead of time.

MOOK: We did.

CONWAY: How we would speak with each other that night.

TAPPER: You had talked before the election?

CONWAY: E-mailed and agreed. I see an e-mail from Roby Mook and I think it's a fund raising appeal and I click on, it's an e-mail from Roby, so excited.

[16:35:06] TAPPER: So, you two had actually negotiated?

CONWAY: Yes, yes. I'm sure we had a little plan and we actually...

MOOK: We actually kind of executed on the plan.

CONWAY: Yes. I looked down at the phone and said Huma Abedin I said, oh my gosh. And I handed it to Donald Trump and she is exactly right, Secretary Clinton was gracious, but she congratulated Donald Trump and she also conceded to him and that is an important point to make here, because now you have people participating in a recounted as the person who was asked 3,462 times on television, Jake, will he respect the election results, will his supporters move on?

MOOK: I only asked you twice.

CONWAY: Well, his supporters move on? I'd like to pose the question to her supporters. Are you going to accept the election results? Because #heisyourpresident too. I think the right questions were being asked about the wrong candidate and the wrong -- and the supporters. But I am glad Robby just mentioned that. It is a combination of Secretary Clinton congratulating, conceding and then telling the American people the next day, let's have a peaceful -- I'm paraphrasing here now, but let's have a peaceful transfer democracy, let's respect the process and the President-Elect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: And now, President-Elect Donald Trump says he wants to heavily tax American businesses that move the jobs overseas. Our next guest says that won't just affect those companies, but also your wallet and how much you pay for things. The trickledown effect you can call it, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:40:05] JOHNS: Donald Trump fired off another barrage on twitter, this time sending a warning to companies across the country. An absolute barrage of tweets, he says the U.S. will reduce taxes and regulations, but any company that is considering moving the operations outside the border will be taxed 35 percent.

I'm joined by Pedro Alfonso, he is the incoming president of the National Small Business Association and President and CEO of Dynamic Concepts Incorporated. Mr. Alfonso, what is your reaction to the President-Elect's latest comments? How will this affect small business?

PEDRO ALFONSO, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF DYNAMIC CONCEPTS INCORPORATED: Let's be clear. You know, there's no argument trying to save American jobs is patriotic and something that is laudable. So we are encouraged by that action to save jobs. But when you talk about 35 percent tariffs, we aren't sure about the unintended consequences. What effect would that have on small businesses? Once you start doing a protectionism-type of move in terms of a tariff, it has a certain reaction across the board. So, they're just a lot of unanswered questions. We are not opposed but we certainly need a lot of answers coming from the administration.

JOHNS: And that would also potentially create ripples overseas and perhaps retaliation by other countries? Is that the kind of thing we might face?

ALFONSO: Well, there goes the unanswered question. If you're going to place a tariff on a company that is moving jobs, what about all the companies that already have moved their jobs, what's the consequences on them? What about the small businesses that have, paid higher taxes, paid a high wages and have stayed here? What are the benefits for them and incentive for keeping those jobs? So, all of those questions have to be answered before we just slap on a tax and think that will fix the problem. But we're not saying that, that is -- you know, here's been an action and there's certainly a reaction to that.

JOHNS: Ok. So, people watch campaign. They know a lot of Donald Trump's products are manufactured overseas. Do you know if he is subject to the same tax penalty that he is talking about putting in place?

ALFONSO: Certainly if he is going to put in a policy, you know, wouldn't you think that the president would follow that policy, whatever that might be. You know, prior to that position, prior to him being in office, he was a business person and they tried to, you know, as all business people, reduce costs and improve profits. Maximize profits. He did that as a business person, but as president, you know, when's good for the goose should be for the gander.

JOHNS: Right. We are talking about business owners, talking about companies, but what about the everyday consumer? Do we know how 35 percent would affect every day people?

ALFONSO: You're right. Do we know? Do we know what impact that would have from south of the border or from overseas when you start putting in protectionism types of tariffs? But I will say that having some actions or taking some action to fix the problem should be recognized. But we need to just investigate and look at it a lot closer, because consumers are going to get hit if oil prices start going up, products starts going up, it could impact jobs and small businesses.

JOHNS: Pedro Alfonso, not entirely critical of what Donald Trump is talking about on this issue, but certainly, got some questions, don't you?

ALFONSO: I would say we need answers before we jump in to a big pot of oil and get burned.

JOHNS: All right. Thank you so much for that. Appreciate you coming on this Sunday.

ALFONSO: Thank you.

JOHNS: And reminder, story of the day, the thing topping our news, we are waiting an update from officials of the investigation into the weekends deadly warehouse fire in Oakland. So far, 30 people have been found dead. We'll take you live to that news conference as soon as it begins. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:48:19] JOHNS: So voting is now under way for the CNN hero of the year. One of the nominees grew up with cerebral palsy and is now using his nonprofit status to help others with the disability.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) (Foreign Language) My work is changing the lives of children with disabilities. Our work at the foundation has been finding people with wheelchairs. At least they can take their child to the doctor, to play in the park, to see the light of day. This place we have built we have therapy services, the children study at the foundation and many children have learned to walk. It has become a second home to 480 children with disabilities. The only thing we are telling people is look for their talent, look for their abilities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: So we have some breaking news going on right now, on the standing rock protest over the pipeline out in north of Dakota. We are learning among other things that the army is saying that it's essentially will not approve an easement to allow that proposed Dakota access pipeline to cross under a lake in north Dakota. We have been trying to get Sara Sidner up. She has been out there, covering the story for a while now.

Sara, can you hear me? Hey, Sara, this is Joe Johns in Washington. Can you hear me?

[16:50:16] SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Joe, yes, I have you.

JOHNS: So, what's the latest?

SIDNER: So, it is difficult here.

JOHNS: What is the latest n this?

SIDNER: So, this we got from the tribe initially. They came out and there was a celebration here. When they said, look, the army corps of engineers has denied a permit for the Dakota access pipeline to essentially go under the Missouri River, to go under the river that everyone is here saying that they're here to protect. So it is a true victory for the standing rock or the tribe, who has initially started this protest against this pipeline.

We also talked to the chairman of the tribe who has said there's nothing else but a reroute of the pipeline that would keep them from the land they're on now and which really, Joe, has turned into a city of people. There is between 5,000 and 8,000 people who have come from all over the country and the world to be at this camp trying to stop the pipeline. The protesters are not actually on land that would physically stop the pipeline. But it has been the political pressure and the legal battle that is going on the constant legal battle that is going on, trying to get this to cease. They have won a very big victory. Although some of the folks in the tribe saying if it's completely stopped (Bad Audio) the important section to go under has been rerouted. Joe?

JOHNS: Ok. So rerouted, it sounds like there's a lot of regulatory stuff in there, bureaucratic stuff in there, but the gist of it, it sounds like they are going to halt the pipeline work? SIDNER: They had already halted the pipeline work.

JOHNS: Right. But I mean -- I understand. But I mean, going forward, they're not going to try to go at least the same direction that they were going before or is it just over?

SIDNER: As we understand it, they haven't approved the easement, which basically would allow it to continue on its current path which means that it would have to reroute, if they can't go in the current path which they're just a few hundred yards away from the river now. We have seen video of the pipeline from a drone that some of the folks in the camp have put up. So you can see how close they are to having that final line go underneath the river. That according to the new information that is come from both tribe and army corps of engineers is essentially halted.

JOHNS: Got it.

SIDNER: The only way for them to deal with this now is go back to court or decide to do it someway legally or reroute this pipeline which is exactly what the Standing Rock Sioux wanted to see and the protesters out there wanted to see.

JOHNS: Got it. Thanks so much for that, great reporting. Thanks for getting on the horn real fast, Sara Sidner. Now, let's bring in Van Jones. Van, as I understand it, you've be, following this very closely. You are very familiar with it. Can you sort of put in context where we are and what this protest has accomplished?

VAN JONES, AMERICAN POLITICAL ACTIVIST: Well, this is a tremendous victory for the native American communities but, unfortunately, what was revealed throughout this whole process was unfortunately a project was approved or all but approved that would have jeopardized the water not just for the native Americans on the reservation, but for millions and millions of Americans, because these pipelines do tend to leak. And there are so many water sources that where going to be impacted, they started calling themselves not protesters, but water protectors. And they wound up suffering quite a bit over the past several months. They were sprayed with water in freezing weather. There's a lot of, you know, really shocking things that were going on.

But I think the key takeaway is this. The army corps of engineers has a responsibility to make sure that the water resources of America are respected and protected. And when they looked at it, it turns out that the protesters were right, that this was actually not a safe project. And it's I think a victory for common sense, a victory for legality, but also a victory for the native American community. This is the first time that -- for almost every Native American nation, we have hundreds of tribes or Native American nations, almost unanimously, they all said, this is a bad idea.

[16:55:10] There's sacred land that is affected and waters affected and not just for Native American children, but millions of Americans. It has not happened since Christopher Columbus got here, that you have such a unanimous cry from the Native American peoples and I think finally got the attention that it deserved, but this is an almost unbelievable victory, because the -- these are very, very hard projects to stop. You are talking about millions of dollars. Frankly, a lot of labor unions are not going to be happy. They were hoping to possibly to get some of that work. And yet, at the end of the day, it's not being stopped. It is being rerouted and rerouting it means some of those jobs will still be there, but hopefully you won't have the endangerment of water for so many Americans.

JOHNS: And a protest under some of the worst conditions that really captured the imagination of the country. Thanks so much for that, Van Jones. Reminder, we are waiting for an update from officials on the investigation into this weekend's deadly fire in Oakland, as well. So far, 30 people have been found dead. Poppy Harlow is going to take you to the news conference when it begins live. I'm Joe Johns. Thank you for joining me.

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