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30 Confirmed Dead In Oakland Fire; Search For Secretary of State has Broadened; Pence Defends Taiwan Call As Courtesy; Army Corps of Engineer Halts Dakota Pipeline; Conway Defends Trump's Tweet As Presidential;Regime Forces Hit Aleppo Hard For 24 Straight Hours; Anthony Bourdain In The Real Rome. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired December 04, 2016 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. Top of the hour, I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. So glad you are with us, 5:00 here in New York. 2:00 p.m. out west.

We are live in the CNN NEWSROOM and tonight, we continue to follow the Breaking News of a horrific death toll from a warehouse fire in Oakland, California. We have now learned that the death toll is much, much higher than first reported. We now that at least 30 people are now confirmed dead. That figure updated just a short time ago by the sheriff's department officials who call it an astronomical number, it happened late Friday night in this building. It is a warehouse that was converted into a shared artist space and a music show venue. The roof caught fire, caved in on the second floor that collapsed on to the first and the crowd below.

Our Stephanie Elam is there in Oakland tonight. I know that throughout the day Stephanie, some of these emergency officials have been updating us, here and there with more information that they're learning. It's been incredibly hard for them to identify the number of victims and the identities. What else can you tell us at this hour?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is exactly the situation here, Poppy. What they're saying is that some of the people who lost their lives easy to identify and others are not. And to that end there asking families members, if you think your loved one may have been here to preserve some of their DNA, put a hair brush or toothbrush in a clean paper bag and set it aside so that officials when they come looking for someone they can connect that information and that could take weeks to identify who those people are, but for other people they're able to identify them with identification, fingerprints, they are looking at dental records.

It is a slow painstakingly slow process to do this and they are going through the space with bucket by bucket, shovels. They are cleaning out the each area very slowly and methodically to make sure they don't miss anyone that may be there. At this point, they say they have only gotten 20 percent into the building and the fire went through the entire building, so can see this is taking a really long time and they want to make sure that they don't miss any of the evidence or anyone who may have lost their life there, Poppy. HARLOW: Why is it such a unique challenge for these firefighters? I

mean, yesterday the officials were saying in a press conference that we aired on this show, I mean they were having a tough time, Stephanie even getting in the door in part, because of falling debris.

ELAM: Right. I mean, the roof caved in. There are only a couple of entrances or exits to get out of the building and that one point the fire so hot they were having a difficult time even getting inside. There were also palettes that were creating a stair step effect to the second level and they are saying that, that all wood, no handrails and that burned away obviously very quickly and so that part of the issue that they were having, as well. So, now they're actually cutting into the building, dissecting it for anything that is getting in the way so they can get a bettered idea and to that point, about what it was like inside, I want to introduce you to Chris. Chris, talk to me. Chris Dunn, you know a lot of people who would frequent this space. Give me an idea of what it was like inside.

CHRIS DUNN, HAVE BEEN IN THE WAREHOUSE BEFORE: Well I haven't been there for over a year and so I am not sure exactly what it was like. But it was a beautiful space with wall to wall art and collections from all over the world.

ELAM: And why is a space like this something that is of value to creative minds that would frequent it?

DUNN: Well, I think that the issue is there's -- well, I mean, it was a beautiful space and they were allowing this type of artistic gathering to happen and there's really just not enough spaces for this type of art, for this type of artistic expression, music and gathering.

ELAM: So, you obviously, this whole community looking to make sure that their friends, loved ones were found, you have been able to find everyone that you think was there. Correct?

DUNN: I'm pretty sure everyone that I knew that went to the event has made it out safe.

ELAM: But is everyone talking about this is something that is just permeating the community?

DUNN: Yeah. I mean, this is absolutely devastating. Everyone is connected. And I would say there are a massive community of artists and just a massive community here in Oakland that is grieving right now. This is unprecedented.

ELAM: Are you still seeing messages of people saying they are looking for loved ones, are you seeing any of that traffic maybe via social media?

DUNN: That traffic has died down a little bit, because I think it's becoming more and more resolved.

ELAM: So, people are finding out the people they loved either made it or didn't make it? DUNN: It seems like it, sort of, it's a centralized place for people

who are now looking and not as much just sort of random posts on Facebook like it was.

ELAM: But still that is what the dominating your social media right now, at this time?

DUNN: I don't have anything on my Facebook wall other than this. And maybe a handful of Standing Rock posts.

ELAM: Wow. All right, Chris, thank you. We're glad the people you care about are safe, sorry for your community and what they are dealing with. Poppy, that is the sense out here. People trying to get an idea of where their loved ones are and at this point, the officials are making it very clear that this is all about recovery. There is no chance that they think that anyone could have survived this, but because the people may be so hard to identify, it is really slowing down the process on getting through the building.

{17:05:17] HARLOW: Absolutely tragic. We had feared yesterday the number would go up and it has gone up much, much, much higher. Stephanie Elam, thank you very much for that in Oakland. We are expecting a press conference with an update from authorities in Oakland at 6:00 p.m. Eastern and will bring that to you of course when it begins.

Also the politics in a weekend of ruffling international feathers with some controversial phone calls. That is highlighting the importance of a single cabinet position yet to be filled. That, of course is Secretary of State. President-Elect Donald Trump has yet to make his pick. Tonight we are learning that Trump has not narrowed down his possible picks. Instead, that pool of candidates is getting larger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, an issue he is brought in to the search and secretary is an incredibly important position to fill and he is very fortunate to have interest amongst serious men and women whom all need to understand the first responsibility of Secretary of State would be to implement and adhere to the President-Elect's America first foreign policy. And be loyal to his view of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: CNN's Ryan Nobles is outside Trump tower. He joins me now. You know, now, obviously, a big name, Jon Huntsman, is now in the mix. He served as an ambassador to China under President Obama. He is a Republican. He ran for president, he is also sort of a mixed history, right, with Donald Trump?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. That is right. You know, when's interesting though in the early days of Trump's ascent to the Republican nomination where a lot of establishment or Republicans were being very critical of Donald Trump, Jon Huntsman was one of the few voices of the establishment group that have relatively nice things to say about him and then as the campaign went on and there were more controversies surrounding Donald Trump, Huntsman's tune changed a little bit, but he never really move himself too far away from Trump as a candidate.

So, you know, what is interesting I think about this particular pick at this point is that, you know, obviously, everything that is happened in the past 24 hours with China and Taiwan, Jon Huntsman is a man that knows that delicate relationship very well, having served as the Ambassador to China. And he is someone that would come from that establishment wing of the party. But Poppy, you know, we are being cautioned right now not to describe Jon Huntsman as a front-runner at this point, but essentially Donald Trump is going to spend a lot more time deliberating this pick and there could be many more names that are floated before he makes his final decision and it could be sometime before we know who the next Secretary of State will be.

HARLOW: Right. It could be sometime and Kellyanne Conway, you know saying that to reporters today. This is critical important pick, it is going to be a while and keep us all on our toes. What about what the Trump team is saying today about that call that Donald Trump took with the president of Taiwan that did a lot more than just ruffle feathers?

NOBLES: Yeah. You know, and Vice President-Elect Mike Pence is really trying to down play that criticism right now and he defended Donald Trump all morning on the morning talk shows saying that it's really the media that is making too much of this. Listen to the argument of that he made this morning on NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENTIAL-ELECT: I think the conversation that happened this week with the president of Taiwan was a courtesy call. She reached out to the President-Elect and he took the call from the democratically elected leader of Taiwan and it's one of more than 50 telephone calls that the President-Elect has taken from and made to world leaders in the midst of a historic pace and cabinet appointments and senior appointments, building a legislative agenda. Even traveling the country and saving 1,000 jobs in the State of Indiana so it's all a reflection of the tremendous energy and I think it's the kind of approach that you're going to see him bring to challenges at home and abroad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: Pence, of course, trying to make the argument that this call is routine and a call like this hasn't taken place in almost 40 years so that is why it's raised so many eyebrows. You know, this is many asking the question, is this going to mean that under the Trump administration, that relationship between China, the United States, and Taiwan could change that perhaps the United States would push away from that one China policy? When Pence was pressed on the question he refused to take any kind of a position. He said we have to wait and see until after Donald Trump is Inaugurated president, Poppy.

HARLOW: Ryan Nobles, live for us tonight outside Trump Tower, thank you very much for that. We appreciate it.

We have a lot ahead this hour, folks. To get through breaking news on a hotly contested Dakota access pipeline. Those protesting it had won a major part of the battle tonight when it comes to constructing the oil pipeline. We will have a live report ahead from North Dakota.

[17:10:00] Also, later in the hour, they have been living in world of death and destruction and now the residents of Aleppo are fleeing for their lives. The Syrian Regime forces move further in to the city. We are inside of Syria for you tonight. We will take you live to the streets of Aleppo. Stay with us. We are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Breaking news tonight in the battle to try to stop a controversial crude oil pipeline that begins in North Dakota but goes through four states in what is being hailed as a victory, a huge victory for protesters tonight. The army corps of engineers said it will not approve the necessary easement for that pipeline construction to continue, at least not on the current route. Why does this all matter? We have our Sara Sidner, live in North Dakota. We will get to her in just a moment as soon as we have her, but first let me bring in CNN Political Commentator Van Jones who aside from talking about politics has been a very vocal opponent of this pipeline. He knows some of the people leading the protest. Just for our viewers who might not be as familiar with it. Let's pull up the map so they can see what we're talking about, North Dakota, huge, huge oil and shale reserves?

VAN JONES, AMERICAN POLITICAL ACTIVIST: Yeah.

HARLOW: So big money maker. It was going to through from North Dakota, down to South Dakota, Iowa and into Illinois and then eventually gets down south to some of the refineries. The key here is they didn't win everything. They have won a major battled not the war.

JONES: Not the war. This is a huge deal. First of all, this pipeline was originally set to go through Bismarck, which is, you know a big City for the part of the country. About 92 percent white city. They said, listen, it is too dangerous. We don't want it here. So in a very controversial move it was rerouted through Native American sacred burial ground and then under a river.

If that pipe were to leak and these pipes leak a lot. Pipes leak. That is why we have plumbers. No pipe is ever perfect. If it were to leak, it would not only hurt the Native Americans but millions and millions of Americans down river would also be hurt. That is why you didn't have a couple hundred Native Americans. You have 5,000 to 10,000 people who have camped out there in the frigid weather saying, please do not do this. The ones who wanted it rerouted seemed to have won tonight.

[17:15:14] HARLOW: So the tribe we're talking about is Standing Rock Sioux and they have been saying as they have been protesting along with others who come from around the country... JONES: Around the world.

HARLOW: And around the world, they have been saying, you know, those that say you're not going through our sacred burial grounds, you are looking at this in a very colonial view. You don't know our practices. You're disrespecting us by doing this. Monday, tomorrow, was the deadline for these protesters were going to have to get off the land and they were going to go through with a construction, so this one up to the very last minute.

JONES: Look. Hollywood could not have written a more epic, dramatic conflict in terms of, you know, a large s company trying to make this happen. Trying to get their needs met and then it comes up against a little tribe, very poor, very low income and then suddenly it blossoms into a global protest and right the last minute the army corps of engineers looks that and says, wait a minute. The protesters are right. This actually would be a very, very dangerous thing. We actually cannot grant the easement. And so it turns into a big victory now, listen, people are going to have to fight it out in court now. They may say - so it is not over.

HARLOW: They can also reroute it.

JONES: Yeah.

HARLOW: And just on the part of those supportive of the pipeline, Dakota access, they have said, this would provide a safer, more environmentally friendly way of moving oil. How so? Because it would go under the Missouri river, some say that, obviously that sparks a concern. You brought this up. They said that this is safer than trucking which you can have more spills, as well.

We just got a statement in from the Department of Justice and I am going to read it to you in full from Loretta Lynch. In light of today's decision by the Department of the Army regarding the access pipeline, the Department of Justice will continue to monitor the situation in North Dakota and the days ahead. We stand ready to provide the resources to help all those who can play a constructive role in easing the tensions.

Obviously, there have been a lot of them. As she goes on to say the department remains committed to supporting local law enforcement, defending protesters constitutional right to free speech and fostering thoughtful dialogue on the matter. I have our Sara Sidner with us in North Dakota, who has been covering this extensively. Sara, set a scene for us there, what's the reaction on the ground?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jubilation really. I mean, people feel like this fight was well, well worth it. And they feel like they have won at least a portion of the fight. I mean, this is a huge victory for the (inaudible) otherwise known in English language Standing Rock Sioux tribe. They are very, very happy to see this and we heard from the chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux who talked about how they conducted themselves and how so many people came out to support including thousands of veterans who arrived today. I want to give you a look at the camp right now. It has grown in the

last 24 hours. It has grown exponentially with the number of people who have been here. We have been here now for a week. And we have really seen a change in this entire place, many, many, many more people. We know that they were at first estimating about 5,000. We must be up between 5,000 and 8,000 people who are here today.

You can hear people screaming and cheering and chanting, because they have been fighting for this for so, so long, from August all the way now into December through frigid temperatures, through difficult times. Through an area where really, you know, this is a plain that gets extremely cold and people just kept coming, even though it was difficult. They just kept coming and people feel like it's a real victory.

HARLOW: Sara, you have been reporting so well for so long on all of this and I am so glad we have you there tonight. I have been in North Dakota reporting on sort of another side of it which is the economic boon that the oil industry is for North Dakota and the surrounding states and how many, you know, really good paying U.S. jobs come to North Dakota as a result of that. There is that side of the argument, too. So what happens now?

SIDNER: Absolutely. There is that side of the argument. We talked to law enforcement today. We went on the other side where the Dakota access pipeline is being built and the workers are and where the police have sort of a front line if you will and the police themselves, said, we pulled back. They had an agreement overnight between the tribe, the veterans group in here and the police that they would pull back and try to deescalate the line. So that was kind of the first indication that something was changing. When talking to the head of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe, the chairman, Dave Archambault, he talked about every intention of staying here, until this pipeline was rerouted, kept from going under the river just a couple of miles away and he also talked about those on the other side of these fight, those, for example, the unions, the union workers that are involved.

[17:20:09] The jobs and ultimately he said for so long Native Americans have been given or have had their resources taken by the United States even though many of them served in the armed services and it is just now time to stop this. There is also a long-held belief that this is nearing destruction to see the oil that is continually taken from the land and so that is one of the prophecies that as the oil are brought out, from the land that is a black snake. The pipeline represents the black snake and so there are a lot of people talking about that, too, worried that this is going to be the end days, if the resources keep being taken from the land. That is another part of the argument by the spiritual leaders. But yes, they recognize that some of this was economic boon for people not the tribe itself necessarily, but people on the other side of this, Poppy.

HARLOW: Sara Sidner is live for us in Cannon Ball, North Dakota. Thank you so much Sara. I let you go talk to some more people, continue your reporting until will join us a little later this evening. Van Jones, just to put a button it with you, to Sara's point, you know, there is the balance of obviously their sacred burial ground and their rights and the economic boon that it is to the region and the jobs.

JONES: Right. And but basically what happened is the same logic that was used to reroute it so it doesn't go through Bismarck was now used to reroute it so it doesn't go through native American territory and risk our water. There are a lot of things to balance out here. But I want you to know for the Native American community, that fight was like Montgomery or Selma for the civil rights movement. It was a time when their community came together and the world stood with them and they got a victory and I think people are very, happy tonight.

HARLOW: Do you think it's dying or rerouting?

JONES: No I think it probably gets rerouted, so the people who want, you know the black snake to be, you know, stop for us...

HARLOW: You're going to have (inaudible), not in my backyard.

JONES: Well, you know that when you're going through sacred burial ground, you are violating treaties and your risking water. That is not the right way to do it.

HARLOW: Yeah. Van Jones, thank you. I'm so glad you're with us and Sara Sidner, thank you as well in North Dakota tonight.

All right coming up, as 800 workers at the Carrier plant in Indiana keep their jobs thanks to a deal made by the President-Elect, 300 workers at a lesser know own manufacturing plant, just a mile away, they are still losing the jobs, those jobs going to Mexico. Workers say the loss will have a ripple effect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not 300. It is at least three to four people per family. You are talking 1,200, 1,500, 1,800 people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Coming up, we will bring you that report. Also we will speak about it with former Chief Economic Adviser to President Obama.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:26:31] HARLOW: Welcome back. A weekend of ruffling international feathers with some controversial phone calls is highlighting the importance of who will be the next Secretary of State. Obviously, the President-Elect Donald Trump had a highly watched dinner with Mitt Romney in New York this week. Obviously, also on the short list of Secretary of State are former New York City Mayor Giuliani and potentially General Petraeus. But another name being added to the list is Jon Huntsman, formally the Ambassador to China under President Obama and formerly ran for president in 2012.

Let's talk about all of this. With me now is Ryan Williams, he is former spokesman for Governor Mitt Romney. Back when he was governor. Thank you for being with me, Ryan. Where do we begin? So, what do you make of the fact that Huntsman is now being added to this list sort of under consideration? Sources say don't consider him the front-runner right now, but this is after that dinner between Mitt Romney and Donald Trump. What do you make of it?

RYAN WILLIAMS, FORMER SPOKESMAN FOR GOVERNOR MITT ROMNEY: Well I think it shows that the President-Elect is doing due diligence, to fill this extremely important position, he is talking to a number of people. I don't think he is sold on anybody yet that is why he is expanding, not contracting the field of candidates for the position. And I think that is good. He needs to take his due diligence, speak to people who have a wide range of expertise and find the person who he thinks is not only best person to serve the country but the person for him to work with and to implement his America first foreign policy.

HARLOW: If you're Mitt Romney right now, you are not nervous?

WILLIAMS: Oh, I don't think the governor's nervous at all. If asked to serve would have a discussion with President Trump about that. Governor Romney is someone who is deeply committed to public service. If he doesn't end up in the administration, that is fine, as well. I think the relationship between the President-Elect and Governor Romney has been repaired and I think he can serve even if he is not the Secretary of State as an adviser and outside voice for this administration.

HARLOW: So, as you know, Kellyanne Conway has said all of these candidates, especially The Secretary of State candidate really needs to be, quote, loyal to Trump's view of the world. You know, we all know how far apart the two men Romney and Trump are when it comes to Russia, for example. Not to mention global trade. You also have Jon Huntsman who was very critical of Donald Trump near the end of the campaign, even said that Pence needed to leave the ticket after that "Access Hollywood" tape came out. Do you think that is all just politics and campaigning and different when you're governing?

WILLIAMS: Yes. Donald Trump is our president now. He is going to be a leader of the free world and I think all of the men being considered for this position want to see the President-Elect do well. The future president, do well. And lead our country towards peace and prosperity, so at this point now I'm encouraged to see President-Elect Trump put aside some of the things that were said in the campaign to find the best and brightest people for this important position. I think it shows that there's a great deal of leadership coming from the new administration and that Trump is a bigger man than many of the critics thought he was.

HARLOW: Let's talk about a fascinating interview that our Jake Tapper did this week. It was on "State of the Union" this morning and sat down with the campaign managers from both sides. Roby Mook, Kellyanne Conway and a viewer -- someone in the audience asked about Donald Trump's twitter use, what he'll do as president. Here's part of the exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, AMERICAN JOURNALIST CARTOONIST: Is that really presidential behavior?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN MANAGER: He is the President- Elect so that is presidential behavior, yes.

TAPPER: So the things that Bill Clinton did in the oval office, did you criticized those...

CONWAY: I did in the campaign.

TAPPER: Those were presidential.

CONWAY: Are you actually comparing what Bill Clinton did in the oval office with a twitter feed? Should we review for those who were not born then what President Clinton did in the oval office?

TAPPER: I am saying just because a president does something, it doesn't make it presidential.

CONWAY: Yes, I wasn't saying otherwise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So, the question there specifically that Jake followed up with was about the fact that the President-Elect tweeted that millions of American have voted illegally. Something he tweeted without any evidence. What do you make of what Kellyanne Conway said about Presidential Behavior?

WILLIAMS: Well I think Trump is breaking all the rules when it comes to Presidential Behavior. He is going to do it his way. It is a way that served him well enough to win the election. He's used of twitter is certainly unconventional and it is a tool I think he likes to use to communicate directly to the American people. I hope that he will use it judiciously and carefully as president, because the president's words mean a great deal, I mean it mean a lot more than a nominee for political office. Being a president, your words matter, they can swing markets, they can cause international issues so I think it's good to see him going outside the box here and using a new form of communication, but I would hope he will be careful with it.

HARLOW: Especially if he is tweeting from the Potus account. I wish we had more time. We'll have a lot to get through with you. We will have you on again. Ryan Williams, thank you.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

HARLOW: Still to come, President-Elect Donald Trump tweets a threat to companies planning to move jobs out of the United States. What he said and how corporate America is reacting next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: In a series of tweets up this morning the President-Elect Donald Trump is telling U.S. companies to be, quote, forewarned, as they plan to move American jobs to other countries. Trump said if they do that, he would flap a hefty 35 percent tariff on any goods they tried to shift back in to this country to sell. Saying quote, any business that leaves our country for another country, fires its employees or builds a new factory or plant in the other country and sells its products back into the United States would face that tariff. He also said please be forewarned prior to making a very expensive mistake, the United States is open for business. Also, listen as vice President-Elect Mike Pence responded this morning to questions about Trump's latest tweets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:35:13] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does he now pick up the phone and call the head of (inaudible), does he call all these other companies who are going to move overseas?

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENTIAL-ELECT: Well, I think what you are going to see and the President-Elect will make those decisions on a day by day basis in the course of the transition, the course of the administration, but what you're seeing emerge here and I think it's so exciting for millions of Americans, you should have seen the emotion on people's faces. We saw...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Interesting the Vice President-Elect saying on a day-to-day basis these decisions will be made. Let's talk about all of it with Austan Goolsbee, he is the former Chief Economic Adviser to President Obama and a Hillary Clintons supporter. Thank you for being with me.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, PRESIDENT OBAMA'S FORMER CHIEF ECONOMIST AND ECONOMIC PROFESSOR AT CHICAGO'S BOOTH SCHOOLS OF BUSINESS: Thanks for having me, Poppy.

HARLOW: Let me get your take, because you know the inner workings of the White House, obviously working there, advising the president on economic issues. What do you make of what the Vice President-Elect said, someone who knows how the business of governing is done quite well being governor of Indiana saying, you know, we'll look at the individual companies and whether we intervene on a day-to-day basis. Does that work?

GOOLSBEE: No. Of course it doesn't work. I mean, once you're -- you can do what happened this week where they called up Carrier and because Mike Pence is the governor in Indiana they were able to give them a subsidy. Now, the thing that is weird here is Donald Trump is kind of acting like, he called and threatened them and that is what got them to leave half the jobs in the U.S. When, in fact, they just paid them to keep the jobs in the U.S. Once you're in the federal government, once you're the president, you can't really do that. I mean, we have federal tax policy. It is not up to the president to call and decide which company's going to get a subsidy and which one is not. I think Donald Trump's own companies did that outsourcing, so I saw a lot of executives saying hold on a minute. If there's going to be a 35 percent tariff on products getting sent to the U.S. that were outsourced, does that apply to Trump's own business or how are they going to decide it? HARLOW: Well, it would, right? If it's the law of the land and

applies to his children's businesses where...

GOOLSBEE: Well it would.

HARLOW: Let me get your take in this though, because I don't have a ton of time with you.

GOOLSBEE: Sure.

HARLOW: I know you strongly disagree with the way in which the President-Elect went about this. But it worked.

GOOLSBEE: Yeah.

HARLOW: 800 people in Indiana who thought they would be out of work, you know, were going into Christmas thinking, how will I support my family and how am I going to do this? Now they have their jobs and these are good-paying jobs. You know that, good paying union jobs.

GOOLSBEE: It worked for those 800 people. I agree with that.

HARLOW: It work for those 800 people, It has not worked and happened to other, you know, manufacturing jobs that are going to be lost in Indiana like Rexnor a mile down the road, but...

GOOLSBEE: Right.

HARLOW: But some say, why not just do whatever it takes? Maybe it won't work for everyone, but why not?

GOOLSBEE: Well, look. It's perfectly -- that is perfectly valid way to ask it. And as you say, for 800 people who are keeping their jobs, they're perfectly happy. The thing that Donald Trump's tweeting out, though, all it would raise is, he is not talking about doing what he just did. What he just did is give a multi-million dollar subsidy to a company to ship only half their jobs to Mexico. What he is talking about in the tweet is slapping a 35 percent tariff on other companies and that I think you better be careful, because if you start a trade war, thousands of Americans are going to lose their jobs, not gain them.

HARLOW: Yeah, of course. We should learn from history here, right? There is one thing to threaten and perhaps threatening works, right? Perhaps we will see other companies not dare to do this. Or at least to the extent that they were planning on it, because of what we have seen, but you know the last time this country instituted a major tariff was in the 1930s on (inaudible).

GOOLSBEE: That did not end well, yes.

HARLOW: Made the great depression even worse.

GOOLSBEE: Yes.

HARLOW: And prolonged it. However, as you know, Donald Trump has threatened to pull out of the world trade organization, if he can't get a better deal. And if you aren't bound by the WTO, then you're actually not violating, you know, international law to slap these tariffs on. Are you concerned that perhaps, to see the President- Elect do that?

GOOLSBEE: Oh, I don't think that we will see that. I'm not saying he does not have the ability to slap on tariffs. I think he has the ability. I just think, things like if a lot of imports into the U.S. are actually supplies that are used in U.S. manufacturing, so if you start doing that, and you start getting those countries slapping tariffs on U.S. products, then U.S. auto manufacturers are going to not be able to make a bunch of cars because they are going to say, whoa, wait a minute. We can't get the electrical system or we can't get the air conditioner or whatever supply was the thing coming from Mexico. So I just think they just need to take a step back, take a deep breath and figure out what works. Going and calling people and threatening them on a one by one company basis is a really bad way to make your economic policy.

[17:40:33] HARLOW: I have 30 seconds left but given your experience in the White House on economic policy, if indeed, this tariff is instituted, what would a trade war look like in the near term and long term for the U.S. jobs?

GOOLSBEE: It would be bad in the short term. In the long term, we'd probably be able to negotiate our way back out of it. To find some new agreement, but in the short term they would have to shut down a bunch of factories while they were waiting to get their spare parts. Hopefully Donald Trump will put his focus on corporate tax reform which I think they will and that has the potential to be a positive for the corporate sector focusing on this, let's fight it over is not good.

HARLOW: I have to leave it there. He has said he is going to bring the corporate tax right down to 15 percent and he is going to have congress on his side to do that, we will probably see a mayor change on that policy, Austan Goolsbee, nice to have you on, thank you very much.

GOOLSBEE: Great to see you again, Poppy.

HARLOW: Straight ahead tales of starvation, fear and a fight just to survive. These are the stories our Fred Pleitgen, fears firsthand from inside of Syria. We will take you to the front line in Aleppo straight ahead. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[17:45:20] HARLOW: Staying with our top story tonight, the tragic fire, in Oakland, California, that is left at least 30 people dead. We are waiting for a news conference from officials in Oakland. It is expected to be really any moment. So we will bring that to you live as soon as it begins. Again, 30 people dead at least in this Oakland warehouse fire, much more of that ahead.

Meantime, in Syria, Syrian regime forces have been pounding bombarding Aleppo for the past 24 hours in a bid to try to drive out rebel forces and gain control of the City.

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HARLOW: Air strikes and mortar rounds pounding eastern Aleppo nonstop reducing buildings to rubble, sending some 30,000 people in just days out of the City. All while international leaders try to hammer out some sort of diplomatic resolution to what has been a bloody civil war in Syria that has ride on and on for years. The United Nations now estimates 600,000 people have been killed in this civil war in Syria. Our Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen joins me live tonight from Aleppo. You are on the ground. You are inside the besieged city, you are seeing this all firsthand. It is the children, Fred, as we showed in your piece on this program last night. It is the children who are bearing the worst of this.

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. They certainly are, Poppy. And you know one of the things that we always have to keep in mind is that as night falls here in Aleppo, we can see and we can hear all of the shelling going on, we can hear aircraft in the air, also dropping bombs, as well. All you can do is just imagined how bad things must be for families that are still trapped inside these besieged areas, especially, of course, for the children. You know, earlier today we managed to get to one area that was recently taken back by the Syrian government, it was absolutely destroyed and, again, there were many of those displaced people inside there. Trying to cling on to hope and also trying to cling on to any sort of belongings they could find. Here's what we saw.

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PLEITGEN: Driving through a destroyed wasteland, that until recently was one of the main battlegrounds in Syria. Aleppo's district was in rebel hands until last week when government forces moved in with crushing fire power. 13-year-old Udai shows me where a rocket landed next to his house and describes the fear he felt as the war raged.

We were very, very frightened Udai says. Normally we would hide in the basement, but luckily that night we slept on the first floor, because that is when two rockets hit right over here. Udai's little brother Abdul Karim is clearly traumatized by the horrors he has witness and still weak from living under siege for weeks with almost no food and water available much of the time.

As the rebels lost their grip on this place, many residents fled trying to escape with their lives and not much more. Now, they're coming back, some haven't seen their houses for years. Halid Chavelo left in 2012 when the rebels took this district. Now he is trying to salvage any belongings in what's left of his apartment.

I am very sad, because everything is either destroyed or ransacked he says. We found these pictures under the rubble. Even the walls are destroyed but we'll come back here and rebuild. The battle for Aleppo is far from over. Syrian government forces

clearly have the upper hand. Taking about half the rebels' territory in the past week alone and continuing to push their offensive with massive fire power. Like in so many districts that have been taken back by the Syrian military, there is massive destruction in this part of eastern Aleppo, but there's no denying the shift in momentum in favor of the Syrian military and also the boost in morale that many of the soldiers have gotten.

Troops loyal to Syrian President Bashar al Assad said they believe they could capture all of Aleppo, Syrian most important battleground very soon. The rebel headquarters was right here, he says. So the loss of this district was a big blow to them. You can see how our shelling pounding them and that shows that their morale is collapsing.

Rebels left behind makeshift cannon when they fled here last week. So far the opposition hasn't found a way to shore up their defenses in the face of this massive and possibly decisive Syrian government offensive.

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[17:50:00] PLEITGEN: And Poppy in the past 30 hours that we've been on the ground, we've seen absolutely no let up in the shelling. I'm not sure if you can hear some of the rounds that are being fired behind me as we speak right now. In the past couple of days alone, the rebels have lost about 60 percent of the territory that they once held here in Aleppo. Certainly if you speak to some of those people that we saw their in that report, those displaced people very few of them believed that a political solution is something that will happen or something that is even possible especially with the momentum going the way it is right now despite of course the efforts by the international community, Poppy.

HARLOW: It is absolutely heartbreaking. Fred Pleitgen, thank you for the reporting. And thank you to you and your entire team, your producer, your camera men. We know you are putting your own lives in danger to bring us this live from Syria tonight. Thank you very much.

We're also waiting as I said that update from Oakland, California. Tonight the scene of that horrific warehouse fire, the confirm death toll much higher, that originally thought, at least 30 people dead. We will bring you that as soon as it begins, also breaking news tonight on the hotly contested Dakota access pipeline, those protesters winning major battle. In all of this we will tell you what happened, straight ahead live from North Dakota you are on the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[17:55:00] HARLOW: Don't miss the season finale of "PARTS UNKNOWN". Anthony Bourdain uncovers the real Rome. He is on the vibrant modern city, behind the artifacts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN PARTS UNKNOWN HOST: It was the out skirt, the

margins of Rome that were interesting and beautiful, the real Rome, not the temples and monuments of a long dead empire, a place where people struggled every day to live and to love. You've been eating here for how long?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since I was a kid. I used to love since childhood. It's comforting.

BOURDAIN: That is the thing, more or less?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is the thing. That is why I keep coming back. It's always her cooking. She cooks every time.

BOURDAIN: Rome is a City where you find the most extraordinary of pleasures in the most ordinary things. Like this place which I'm not ever going to tell you the name of. He is been coming here regularly, forever. She brings her kid still, so I'm not going to screw it up for her.

It's good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's good. Isn't it comforting?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Makes me hungry just watching that. Of course in Rome comes for food for season finale of "PARTS UNKNOWN", tonight at 9:00 Eastern only right here on CNN.