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NEW DAY SUNDAY
Nine Killed, 25 Missing In Warehouse Fire; Stein Escalates Recount Efforts In Pennsylvania; Austria, Italy Vote For Change; Trump And Clinton's Aides Clash Over Fake News; "Saturday Night Live" Skewers Donald Trump; Walter Scott Shooting Trial; Trump To Get New Ideas To Fight ISIS; Penn State Wins Big Ten Championship. Aired 6-7a ET
Aired December 4, 2016 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[06:00:02] CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning and welcome to Sunday. We're so glad to see you. I'm Christi Paul.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Martin Savidge in for Victor Blackwell.
Let's begin with the big political news that's developing overnight. Green Party candidate, Jill Stein, says that she is escalating her recount efforts in Pennsylvania. She dropped a lawsuit Saturday after a court demanded $1 million to keep that recount going. Stein's attorney says they will file for emergency relief in federal court on Monday demanding a statewide recount on constitutional grounds.
PAUL: Meanwhile, this weekend as top Democrats gather and look for the future chair of the DNC, one challenger says, I'm out. Howard Dean dropping his bid for a second stint as DNC chair. Now there's controversy for leading contender, Minnesota Congressman Keith Ellison, with renewed focus this week on his past ties to the nation of Islam and his defense of its leader. We're going to talk about that just ahead.
SAVIDGE: Meanwhile, as Donald Trump elect, narrowing in on his choice for his top U.S. diplomat. Could this be the week that we learn who will be Trump's secretary of state. We'll look at who the final four contenders really are.
PAUL: We'll get to all of that in a minute. We want to talk about the nine people who died and more than a dozen, two dozen, in fact, that are still missing after this massive fire that started during a party in an Oakland warehouse.
Officials fear that dozens more people may have been killed here. Firefighters say they can't even search the entire building yet until they make certain it is safe to enter.
There is a Facebook page originally started with this event, this party, that has now turned into a desperate search forum for family members and for friends begging for information on the people who are missing. CNN correspondent, Dan Simon, is live in Oakland. Dan, I want to ask you about what's happening there at this moment. We understand that there are still possibly bodies inside this building that they can't get to. How secure is that building this hour?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a fragile scene. Good morning, Christi and Martin. Crews have been working around the clock to recover bodies. This is going to be a very difficult day. We know that firefighters have bought in heavy equipment including a train and excavator to reach some of the unstable areas of the building. All of this as family members anxiously await any information about their loved ones.
SIMON (voice-over): Authorities worked through the night vowing to search as long as it takes to recover all the victims of Friday night's massive warehouse fire in Oakland.
SGT. RAY KELLY, ALAMEDA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: We have recovered nine victims at this point. We are rushing their fingerprints to identify them and then notify family members as we get those identifications.
SIMON: Bob Mule was inside an artist's studio in the warehouse when the fire broke out. He warned others to run, but before he could leave he heard a friend, a man he calls Pete, crying out for help.
BOB MULE, FIRE SURVIVOR: He's like, I broke my ankle. I need you to pull me out. I need you to pull me out. I need you to pull me out.
SIMON: The flames burned Mule as he tried to rescue his friend. Soon the fire forced him to flee.
MULE: The fire was getting too hot and the smoke was just getting too bad around I had to -- I had to leave him there. I wasn't able to get him out. I really -- I really don't think Pete made it.
SIMON: Even when the fire was out, the building was too unsafe for emergency responders to enter. The roof collapsed and debris littered the area in what is called a live, work, art space. This morning the community of Oakland is remembering the victims.
The Golden State Warriors held a moment of silence for the victims before the start of their NBA game. While several dozen people who were feared to be victims of the fire were found safe by authorities. More than two dozen more are still missing and police expect the death toll to rise.
KELLY: We know there are bodies that are in there that we can't get to that have been seen but not recovered.
MULE: I'm just happy to be alive.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SIMON: It could take another 24 to 48 hours to remove and recover all of the bodies given the complexity of this operation. Cadaver dogs may be used. As you can imagine authorities are asking for patience for all the questions that are out there, including why this happened and why so many people were unable to get out.
There has been an outpouring in this community. You have a lot of generosity, including the Oakland Raiders and the Golden State Warriors stepping up. Collectively all of the professional sports teams are pledging to give more than $100,000 to help the families of the victims -- Christi, Martin.
[06:05:03]PAUL: All right, Dan Simon, when are we going to hear from authorities next with an update?
SIMON: Yes, we're told that sometime this morning there will be a news conference. Hopefully, we get a better idea in terms of the numbers of how many bodies may be recovered.
WHITFIELD: All right, Dan Simon, thank you so much. We appreciate it.
SAVIDGE: Joining us now on the phone to talk about the possible warning signs the week before this fire and the investigation that is bound to come, Norman Augustin. He is the deputy fire chief for DeKalb County Georgia Fire Rescue. Good morning, sir. Thank you for joining us.
NORMAN AUGUSTIN, DEPUTY FIRE CHIEF, DEKALB COUNTY GEORGIA FIRE RESCUE (via telephone): Yes, good morning.
SAVIDGE: Let's start with, first, as we know, there are probably more victims inside of that building and yet it is said to be too dangerous for investigators, firefighters to go in. What do they have to do first?
AUGUSTIN: First of all, they would have to go in and assess the structure and integrity of the building. As you know, fire can do a lot of damage to that. They have also be sure to use heavy equipment and shoring equipment to stabilize the parts of the building that are collapse potentials before anyone would be able to go in and do a search.
SAVIDGE: So this sounds like something that will take a while?
AUGUSTIN: Yes, it definitely can take a while. With them bringing heavy equipment in it complicates it even more because you would secure an area, you bring that equipment in, it can cause more damage and you have to reassess. But it's constant reassessment to make sure all the investigators and the rescuers are safe.
SAVIDGE: The property records show code violations last month for hazardous trash and debris. People were not supposed to be living there and there's also no evidence of a sprinkler system. This seems like a perfect example of a building that should have been condemned. So why didn't it happen? AUGUSTIN: Well, it would be hard for me to say without more information. In some cases owners are allowed to occupy the building while they work with firefighters and inspectors on correcting the nonhazardous, nonlife threatening hazards or violations. So I would need more information before I could speak on Oakland in particular.
SAVIDGE: It is always so tragic and awful to think about the high potential death toll here. Is it the fire or is it the smoke that can be the most lethal?
AUGUSTIN: Well, it's definitely would be the smoke. You know, that smoke gets into your system and it blocks oxygen and you would lose consciousness very quickly. So I would say it's the smoke that would cause most of the deaths in a situation like this. And there's also the weakened building that can collapse and cause more deaths too.
SAVIDGE: All right, Dekalb County deputy fire chief, Norman Augustin, again, thank you for your expertise and for joining us this morning.
AUGUSTIN: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: And we'll keep you posted on how that situation is playing out obviously as well.
Still ahead, Trump's final four, people are looking forward to this. This could be the week that he selects his secretary of state. We're going to breakdown the contenders as we know them.
SAVIDGE: Plus, could old comments sink the leading candidate? We have the new chair of the Democratic National Committee. That's still to come.
SAVIDGE: New this morning, Green Party candidate, Jill Stein, says that she is taking her recount efforts in Pennsylvania to federal court. That's after she dropped a lawsuit Saturday. The Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court demanded that $1 million be paid to move forward with that recount.
In a statement to the court lawyers for Stein wrote, quote, "Petitioners are regular citizens of ordinary means. They cannot afford close to $1 million bond required by the court," unquote.
PAUL: All right, we want to talk about this with our CNN politics reporters, Eugene Scott and Tom Lobianco. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. Eugene, I want to read you a little bit more of Dr. Stein's statement here.
She says "By demanding a $1 million bond from voters yesterday, the court made it clear it has no interest in giving a fair hearing to these voters' legitimate concerns over the accuracy, security and fairness of an election tainted by suspicion." Here's the thing, Eugene. OK, so they want $1 million. She raised nearly 7 million in an online campaign specifically for a recount. Is she not able to use that in this capacity?
EUGENE SCOTT, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: So many voters I don't think Dr. Stein has made it very clear regarding what it is that the money has been able to raise. Significantly more than the amount she initially suggested will go to and why it is needed.
To your point, it's not really clear why the money she has is not sufficient for doing what it is that she says she wants to do, which she's been a bit vague about. What she has been clear about is that leftover funds if there are any will go to support the Green Party.
What that means isn't very clear, but she says she's going to have a press conference tomorrow outside of Trump Tower and perhaps there will be some details that have not been made available so far.
WHITFIELD: There could be, in fact, Tom, I want to get to what is going to happen tomorrow morning. We have a statement from Jill Stein's lead counsel on recount efforts there. This is what he says is going to happen tomorrow.
"On Monday, the Stein campaign will escalate our campaign in Pennsylvania and file for emergency relief in federal court demanding a statewide recount on constitutional grounds." Tom, what is the likelihood she will get federal relief for this?
TOM LOBIANCO, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Well, it's hard to say at this point whether or not the federal courts will step in. You no he, what we do know is that she's not backing down from this. You know, they're still fighting this thing. You know what's fascinating is you also have Trump lawyers fighting from the other side.
We've seen them active in Wisconsin. We've seen the attorney general, the Republican attorney general in Michigan step in, try to block that recount. So this is an ongoing fight. It's being fought on numerous, numerous levels, you know, in all arenas at this point.
It shows no signs of it going away. You know, the politics of it are obviously great for Stein because she's getting tons of attention. You know, the fundraising for this is going pretty strong and there's -- for her, there's almost no reason to stop.
PAUL: And is that what it comes down to, Eugene? Because the truth of the matter is based on everything that we can tell, there's no evidence, no credible evidence thus far of any sort of election tampering even the Clinton campaign has said that in their own investigations of it.
[06:15:08]SCOTT: That's certainly what critics believe. I mean, it's very clear at this point that anything that would be uncovered, assuming that something happened, would not change the results. But what is happening right now is that Dr. Stein is getting more attention than she probably got during the campaign, one. And so is the Green Party, two, and, three, that Donald Trump and his campaign is very annoyed. We saw Kellyanne Conway, his campaign manager, speak about that within the past week at a conference that they had at Harvard.
And so if that's been an official true democracy, I guess that's a win. Other than that, we are not really sure what will come from this.
PAUL: All righty, Tom, real quickly, secretary of state, we believe the announcement will come this week. What information are you getting as to where this might be leaning?
LOBIANCO: Well, you know, we have the top four picks in play right now, Mitt Romney, Rudy Giuliani, Bob Corker and David Petraeus. You know, there's a lot up in the air right now. You know, you have to look back at this call of the Taiwanese president that just happened and you have to think, boy, that's a really important pick right there.
You know, how would Giuliani advice on the call comes in, All right, what would Giuliani tell the president as opposed to Mitt Romney? It goes to show the importance of that pick? I mean, it's a huge, huge spot right there.
You know, he had dinner -- Trump had dinner again with Romney last week. It's clear there's a ton of interest there, but whether or not it's enough to get over those concerns from the conservative base. So, you know, it's hugely important.
PAUL: It's a very good point you make, how would any of these four men handle what's happened over the last 24 hours with Donald Trump and Taiwan. Thank you so much, Eugene Scott and Tom Lobianco. Appreciate it.
SAVIDGE: Big day in Europe today. Italy is voting to change its constitution and Austria electing a new president. What's at stake? Well, we'll fill you in after the break.
PAUL: At this hour Italy and Austria are voting for change. Europeans are watching very closely to see if they become the latest country for an anti-establishment wave. Italy is voting on proposed changes with the constitution that would streamline the government.
Austria is holding its presidential elections again after the results of last summer's vote were overturned due to irregularities in the count.
SAVIDGE: It is a face-off between the leader of the far right Freedom Party, you see him on the right, and a former Green Party head. So let's bring in Matthew Karnitschnig. He is "Politico's" chief Europe correspondent. Matthew, thank you very much for joining us. Just for people who may not fully get it, why are these important -- these elections so important, for, say, people here in the U.S.?
MATTHEW KARNITSCHNIG, CHIEF EUROPE CORRESPONDENT, "POLITICO" (via telephone): Well, it would really send a signal across Europe, and Austria if this far right populous wins the presidency even though it's a ceremonial role and if Prime Minister Renzi in Italy loses this referendum which is really an attempt to try and make Italy work better.
And if both of these events come to pass tomorrow, if we wake up tomorrow and find out that populous has won in Austria and the prime minister in Italy has lost the election, it's really a sign that populism is sweeping Europe again.
And you really have to wonder what's going to happen to the European Union going forward because often people behind these movements are very anti-European. They don't really believe in the E.U. They don't believe in the euro necessarily.
So it does pose a longer term threat to the stability of Europe. For the U.S., it's very important because Europe remains a very important trading partner. If Europe falls apart, that certainly in America's interests to try to prevent.
SAVIDGE: And you know, as we look at the way things have developed, you had Brexit, the vote in Great Britain, then you had the U.S. elections, and now you've got the possibility, as you explained it, of a far right leader in Austria. This seems to be a progression. Is one vote in each of these instances feeding and leading to the next in, say, what's happening now in Europe?
KARNITSCHNIG: Well, if you were to ask a political scientist, they would say, no, there's no empirical evidence that the success of a populous in one country leads to the success in another country and yet it is striking that we have seen this progression of electoral successes by populous across Europe recently.
And, you know, it's something that the establishment party here and similarly to what's happened in the U.S. with Trump, they don't seem to have any real answers to what is bothering people to this kind of deep annoyance that many voters have with establishment parties, with establishment politicians.
It's not just an economic issue. In Austria, for example, Austria is doing very well economically. They have pretty low unemployment by European standards. The economy is healthy and yet there is this growing distrust of the establishment and a lot of that has to do with the refugee issue with Austria taking in a lot of refugees last year, similar to Germany.
In fact, Austria took in more per capita than Germany even. So this refugee issues is something that's driving this in some countries. In other countries like Italy and France, it might be more of an economic issue that's driving the populism. SAVIDGE: Right. But it's so frustrating that it's occurring not just in Europe but in the United States as well and it seems to be all happening at the same time. Matthew Karnitschnig, thank you very much for joining us this morning.
KARNITSCHNIG: My pleasure.
PAUL: Thank you, Matthew. President-elect Trump apparently still has SNL in his crosshairs.
SAVIDGE: Trump blasting the show after the cast ripped on him again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Trump, please stop retweeting all these random real people. You're not getting any work done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not true. I was elected 25 days ago and already unemployment is at a nine-year low. Millions and millions of people have health care and Osama Bin Laden is dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he is dead, just like my soul and all of my hair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Well, good morning. Always grateful for your company. I'm Christi Paul.
SAVIDGE: And I'm Martin Savidge in for Victor Blackwell. Good to be with you as well.
PAUL: One of the stories that we've been watching overnight is this fire in California. We know this morning nine people are dead and more than two dozen are still missing this hour. The massive fire that started during a party in an Oakland warehouse.
SAVIDGE: At least 100 people were said to be inside when the fire consumed the second story of the building. They scrambled to get out before a make shift stairwell collapsed, along with the roof of the building.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB MULE, FIRE SURVIVOR: I busted through my door and there's all this black smoke. I couldn't breathe. I was like with my phone and like the lights went out. Dropped my phone and like I had to like scream and get to the front.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Officials fear that dozens more people may have been killed. Firefighters say they can't search the entire building until they make it safe to enter.
PAUL: Now a Facebook page originally started for the event itself has turned into a desperate search forum for family members and friends. More than $100,000 has been donated to the victims already as well.
Hillary Clinton's former campaign manager is accusing Russia of intervening in the election and blasting a conservative web site for peddling fake news.
[06:30:00] SAVIDGE: Robby Mook tells our Jake Tapper that Trump only won because of the meddling and even took a shot at the president- elect Donald Trump's chief strategist Steve Bannon.
The top aide, Kellyanne Conway, shot back saying that the only fake news was that Trump was losing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBBY MOOK, FORMER HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Steve Bannon ran "Breitbart News" which was notorious for peddling stories like this.
And I'm not attacking him personally, but they peddled a lot of stories o that website that are just false. They're just not true and that reinforce sexist, racist, anti-Semitic notions in people. You know, headlines that just make your -- that, you know, are shocking and insulting and shouldn't be part of our public discourse.
CONWAY: I think that the biggest piece of fake news in this election was that Donald Trump couldn't win. So, there's that. And that was peddled probably for weeks and months before the campaign; definitely in the closing days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Joining me now Scott Bolden, former chairman of the Washington Democratic Party, and Chris Ashby, a GOP campaign lawyer.
Good morning to you both.
CHRIS ASHBY, GOP CAMPAIGN LAWYER: Good morning.
A. SCOTT BOLDEN, FORMER CHAIRMAN, WASHINGTON D.C. DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Good morning.
SAVIDGE: Chris, let me start with you. Two new studies claim that Russia echoed and amplified false or misleading news.
So, I guess the question is, should the Trump transition team just flat outcome out and strongly condemn any involvement of other countries in the U.S. elections and put it to rest?
ASHBY: I think we should all condemn the involvement of other countries in our election process. I think what is -- what is more troubling would be attempts to interfere with voting itself, and that is clear that that did not happen.
There was some attempt to control the news. That was exposed while it was going on, and I think most folks knew that that was happening. They could take that into account when they went to cast their ballots, but the important thing is that I think that the outcome of the election accurately reflected the will of the voters and even the White House has acknowledged that.
SAVIDGE: Scott, do you agree?
BOLDEN: Well, I think so. The reality is that the results of the election aren't going to be changed, I don't think, by Russia's involvement. But we ought to all be concerned as I've said publicly and privately that the fake news, the hacking, the data dump on emails to support Donald Trump is troubling. And what's even more troubling is the Republican leadership simply refuses to denounce it and it's almost silently a willing prisoner of this Russian involvement. Russia would never, I don't think have the technology to go after and change the results of the election but they certainly wanted to influence it because they wanted Donald Trump to win.
SAVIDGE: But why should they -- why should they (INAUDIBLE) Scott -- actually their belief is, I think they've stated it over and over, we've won because actually the voters wanted to elect Donald Trump, not because the Russians wanted to interfere with an election.
Why do the Republican Party have to come out and say what you're asking?
BOLDEN: Well, because it's -- it's -- it's a phenomena -- it's a phenomena that we would not want or we would not address Russian involvement or any international involvement in affecting the outcome of our election.
We don't know how much impact they had because of these fake news stories and these data dumps, if you will. You could say, well, listen, it was irrelevant because ultimately Donald Trump won fair and square. We simply don't know that. But more importantly, what impact did it had based on the integrity of our election process? That's super important. And we all want to know and get to the bottom of that before going -- (INAUDIBLE) elections.
SAVIDGE: Right. Well, I'm not -- I'm not playing down the fact that we don't want anyone outside of the United States, anyone, period, meddling in the election process. But let's move forward.
Trump's blasting SNL as unwatchable after the show skewered him again paying more attention to Twitter than it was to security briefs as you saw in that. Let's just take a -- or if you didn't see it, another look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEC BALDWIN AS DONALD TRUMP: Kellyanne, I just retweeted the best tweet. I mean, wow, what a great, smart tweet.
KENAN THOMPSON AS DONALD TRUMP'S ADVISER: Mr. Trump, we're in a security briefing.
BALDWIN: I know, but this could not wait. It was from a young man named Seth, he's 16, he's in high school, and I really did retweet him. Seriously. This is real.
KATE MCKINNON AS KELLYANNE CONWAY: He really did do this. There is a reason, actually, that Donald tweets so much. He does it to distract the media from his business conflicts and other very scary people in his cabinet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: All right. Well, then Trump immediately responded, of course, via Twitter.
"Just tried watching Saturday Night Live -- unwatchable. Totally biased, not funny and the Baldwin impersonation just can't get any worse. Sad."
Chris, does SNL have a point here? Shouldn't Trump spend less time on Twitter and maybe more time preparing and getting ready for the job that lies ahead?
ASHBY: Well, look, I'm waiting for the PolitiFact fact checkers to come out on Trump's claim that it's unwatchable and a horrible impression because it's hilarious. It has become must watch T.V.
You know, he's going to have to get used to this and I think we're all going to have to get used to his reaction. I think that it's becoming clear that he's approaching the office in a different way than past presidents have and then the media and others would like him to. You know, I think we're going to have to get used to it.
He's going to be tweeting a lot. And I think that -- we have to hope that he surrounds himself with very bright, very capable people who while he's tweeting at night are going to be keeping an eye on the country's business.
SAVIDGE: Go ahead. Go ahead.
BOLDEN: Chris, I agree with you, but there used to be a comedian that would remind the audience whenever it came out that it's comedy. It's comedy. You are the leader of the western world. Take it in stride.
Actually see it's a real honor to even be spoofed by them on a regular basis. But he also gives them a lot of material. He needs to relax because what's going to be really is if that gets under his skin, the call to Taiwan -- to the Taiwan president or that conversation or any other foreign -- foreign experience with leaders, secretary of state type issues, he's going to undermine his secretary of state by tweeting that he had a meeting with a world leader that he simply didn't agree with. This could be dangerous for him. But, remember, it's comedy.
SAVIDGE: It is comedy, and part of that, though, lies on the audience. I think many people in the audience are still so emotionally invested in the outcome that it's not always easy to laugh, although we did find it very, very funny.
Scott Bolden and Chris Ashby, thank you both for joining us this morning.
BOLDEN: Thank you.
ASHBY: Thank you.
Catch much more from Jake Tapper's conversation with Kellyanne Conway and Robby Mook. The full interview with air today at 9:00 a.m. Eastern, and of course right here on CNN.
PAUL: Well, looking ahead, the jury will be back for the Michael Slager trial tomorrow continuing to deliberate on Walter Scott's shooting death. We're talking to our legal analysts, next.
SAVIDGE: So tomorrow the jury will be back for deliberations in the murder trial of former South Carolina police officer Michael Slager. Slager fatally shot Walter Scott after a traffic stop last year. The shooting, of course, you remember was captured on a cell phone video and reignited debate on the racial bias by police.
PAUL: We'll bring in CNN analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson. And thank you, Joey. Coming to us from vacation. That is some dedication. Look at him.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Christi.
PAUL: Thank you for being here, Joey.
All right. Listen, I want to ask you about the fact that the judge let these jurors go home unsequestered and come back on Monday with this one lone juror who wrote a note saying he just cannot convict and he's not going to change his mind.
What do you make of the fact -- what might change over the 48 hour period that he has to himself?
JACKSON: You know, Christi, if you read the juror's note you might conclude that nothing would change. Apparently the juror is -- has come to the conclusion that he's reached his mind in this case and that's it.
However, an hour could change someone's mind, a day could change someone's mind and certainly a weekend could. And so, you know, these are very -- it's very difficult to be a juror. Now we on the outside looking in see this as a clear-cut case and apparently 11 of the 12 jurors I won't say saw it as clear-cut but they deliberated, and we have reason to believe based upon what they told us that the other 11 are indicating guilt whether it's guilty of murder, manslaughter, we don't know.
But it's often a very difficult process. It's very heated. It's very aggravating to be in that closed room with other jurors. And so we'll see Monday morning whether or not that juror has shifted their position or whether they remain in track (ph) and say not guilty. In which case, Christi, we know that a mistrial would then be declared if that (INAUDIBLE).
PAUL: Yes. It's unusual, I think. Normally if we hear of a deadlock, we might hear that a jury's deadlock but we don't know which way they're leaning. We don't know what the circumstances are.
This is very unusual to know that he's the lone holdout of a conviction -- as you pointed out we don't know what the conviction would be in terms of what the charge would be.
But I wanted to ask you, we talked with another attorney yesterday who believes that perhaps this was a stealth juror, somebody who was able to get himself under the jury with a mindset that was already set in stone. Do you think that that is a possibility in this case as well?
JACKSON: You know, Christi, it's a possibility. But I always hate to think that.
I think the best about our jury system -- and I think that reasonable minds could disagree. Now whether you believe that one juror is reasonable having seen the evidence, having looked at the five shots in the back, having looked at, you know, the fact that Slager shot eight different times, he was running away, that it's Walter Scott (INAUDIBLE) shot.
So whether that one juror would be deemed reasonable I think could be questioned, but I'd like to think that, look, jurors sit, they evaluate evidence. They listen to the entire case. You have 55 witnesses in this particular case. And there's a juror for whatever reason --and many of America internationally may disagree feels a certain way.
And so could it be a stealth juror? Potentially or maybe it's just a juror who believes as many across the country, just difficult to convict a police officer.
PAUL: But, Joey --
JACKSON: Many people don't (INAUDIBLE).
PAUL: Let me ask you real quickly because Slager was also indicted in the spring on federal charges. So if this trial -- if this is a mistrial, do they go -- do they retry him at the state? Do the federal charges kick in? What happens at that point?
JACKSON: I think a couple of things will happen, Christi. In the event that they don't get a unanimous decision -- remember all 12 jurors have to agree by Monday that doesn't happen, a mistrial is declared. That's known as a hung jury.
What then happens is that another jury would be impaneled by the state in order to try him on state charges. I believe after that occurred (INAUDIBLE) the federal government would get jurisdiction at which case he would be tried (ph) on those civil rights charges. But I do expect if there's not a verdict, they have another go again at the state level before the feds try him on the civil rights violations.
PAUL: All right. Joey Jackson, what a guy. We appreciate you so much taking time at 6:40 on your weekend, on vacation to share your insight with us. Thank you, sir.
JACKSON: (INAUDIBLE). Thanks, Christi.
PAUL: Thank you.
SAVIDGE: Just ahead. With just weeks until Trump inherits that fight against ISIS, the president-elect is getting some new ideas from top U.S. generals.
These are the same generals he said this about...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Well, new this morning, joint chiefs of staff are finalizing a classified military strategy they plan on presenting to president- elect Donald Trump. Inside this report some new ideas they have in the fight against ISIS.
SAVIDGE: The revelation by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Joseph Dunford, came yesterday at the defense forum. He says that Trump asked for a review of the strategy when he and other officials met with the transition team last week.
A classified military strategy report had been in the works for months for whomever the new president might be. Dunford said, significant progress has been made against ISIS but there are other things he would probably bring to the new administration for consideration.
So joining us now, CNN military analyst, retired Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona. Always good to see you, sir.
LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good to be with you.
SAVIDGE: Let's start with what could be new? And I know that military -- especially military planners do not like to tip their hand at all, but let's just think about what could possibly be new? And I guess what I'm going to start with is boots on the ground.
FRANCONA: Well, I think -- it was interesting to hear General Dunford say this. And I thought it was almost out of school for him to say we're going to be presenting things to the -- to the new administration indicating that we couldn't get this through the present administration.
So it looks like they're going to be pushing for changes, I think, to the rules of engagement, maybe lessen the restrictive rules of engagement we're operating with under right now. Increased boots on the ground, most likely in Syria, more Special Forces, more special operations troops to conduct the counter insurgency, counter terrorism operations. So I think we're going to -- they're going to be pushing for that.
But, Martin, it goes far beyond just a fight against ISIS. It's going to be the whole force structure. And I think we may see a push by General Mattis and General Dunford to roll back some of the changes that Secretary Carter has made.
So I think the Pentagon is planning for a complete change of the status quo.
SAVIDGE: We know that General Mattis has been sort of nominated by the Trump administration. Of course he has not been approved as the defense secretary. But would the planning possibly include, well, what he might think?
FRANCONA: Oh, absolutely. I think he's probably already been in touch with General Dunford. You know, they know each other quite well.
SAVIDGE: Yes, they do.
FRANCONA: General Dunford worked for General Mattis at one time. So there's a -- there's a, you know, a bond there. Although many people are concerned that we've got two marine four stars now running the Department of Defense. So we may see some changes there, some push back from the other services or even members of Congress when they go for the confirmation hearings.
SAVIDGE: And speaking of Syria, which we were earlier on, the offensive to take Raqqa from ISIS could come during the early months of the Trump administration. Do you foresee any shift, say, in the tactics there? FRANCONA: Yes. I think we may have to address our relationships with the Turks. Now as you know, the Turks want to be the ones that lead the force into Raqqa. They have -- they're supporting the free Syrian army, which is a Sunni-based organization, and they believe that's the right organization to move in and take Raqqa. Whereas, the United States is supporting a Syrian Democratic front which is heavily Kurdish. And that's much, much closer to Raqqa. They're in a much better position to make the assault on Raqqa.
So it's going to be a political discussion on who actually goes into Raqqa and I think that's going to be a big part of this ongoing conversation. I know right now we're very sensitive to what the Turks want. I don't know what the new administration is going to do with that.
SAVIDGE: And while I got you here, I might as well ask, what do you think of the suggestions that General Mattis be the one to take over (INAUDIBLE)?
FRANCONA: You know, I have no problem with General Mattis taking over.
If you look at his background, and think the term "mad dog" as his nickname is a little over raught. He's actually quite a thinker. He travels with a huge library of books. He's also known as the warrior monk. So I personally don't have a problem with that.
He's going to go through the vetting process in Congress. I think the president needs to have who he believes he can trust in those positions.
SAVIDGE: He does, indeed. Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, we appreciate as always your insights. Thank you very much.
FRANCONA: Thank you, Martin.
PAUL: All right. Andy Scholes is here with action from as it's known, championship Saturday.
ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yes. That's right, Christi.
You know, the top seeds all in action yesterday. And all taking care of business. We're going to discuss who's in and who's out of this year's college football playoffs. That's up next.
PAUL: Well, after a month of angling and arguing we're now (INAUDIBLE) away from knowing who's going to be in the college football playoffs.
SAVIDGE: Andy Scholes has more on this morning's bleacher report.
I watched that Florida-Alabama game. The first quarter was -- SCHOLES: It was wild. It was wild. You know, as fans most of us were hoping to see some upsets on championship Saturday, right?
PAUL: Yes. You were.
SCHOLES: I was.
You know, I want a little bit of chaos...
SCHOLES: ... before the playoff committee makes their pick today to see the final four. But everyone who was in action taking care of business yesterday.
The one team that's likely going to be on the outside looking in (INAUDIBLE) to be in the playoff is Penn State. The Nittany Lions growling from a 28-7 first half deficit to come back to beat Wisconsin, 38-31 to win the Big Ten Championship. It's really a remarkable turnaround for Penn State five years after they were decimated after the Jerry Sandusky scandal.
The Nittany Lions are arguably the hottest team in college football winning their last nine games. And they think they deserve to be in that final four.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES FRANKLIN, PENN STATE HEAD COACH: People said this year the big ten conference was by far the strongest conference in college football. That -- I've heard that over and over again.
We just won the Big Ten Conference Championship. I've also heard for the last couple of years that you have the ability to overcome early setbacks, and we did that as well. You know -- so I think -- I think we can make a great case for ourselves that we're going to be a part of that conversation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHOLES: Clemson Tigers are the ACC champions for the second straight year. Deshaun Watson, an impressive performance. He threw for three touchdowns, ran for two more. Watson likely going to be likely in the Heisman Trophy conversation (INAUDIBLE).
Now Virginia Tech was driving to tie the game in the final minutes of this one but Jerod Evans going to get picked off as Clemson holds on to win 42-35 for their second straight ACC championship.
All right. Alabama finishing the season as the only undefeated power five team. The Crimson Tide rolling over Florida in the SEC Championship. I was at this one. The first quarter, I could -- (INAUDIBLE) tell you, it was an odd one. Alabama had 16 points but negative 7 yards of offense. They got interception, they returned for a touchdown and then they blocked a punt they took back for a score as well. The Tide winning easily 54-16. It's Alabama's third straight SEC title. So they're going to be number one when the final rankings are released later this afternoon.
This is what the playoffs looked like coming into this weekend. Ohio State second, Clemson third and Washington fourth.
Guys, it's Ohio -- Ohio State didn't play. They were idle and Clemson/Washington both winning. So you have to think it's going to be pretty easy for that playoff committee. There's going to be like -- here's the same thing. (INAUDIBLE) it out one through four, once again. We'll find out later today.
SAVIDGE: We're two Ohioans. So we'll see.
PAUL: ... there's where your payoff (ph) will come. (INAUDIBLE).
SCHOLES: If it's not what we just showed on the screen, there will definitely be some big-time debates over what they end up changing.
PAUL: All right.
SCHOLES: So we'll have to wait and see.
PAUL: Andy, thank you so much.
SCHOLES: All right.
SAVIDGE: Thanks, Andy.
PAUL: And thank you for starting your morning with us.
SAVIDGE: We've got a whole lot more ahead on the next hour of NEW DAY which is going to start right now.
PAUL: We're wishing you a good morning on this Sunday morning.
I don't know if we've told you lately how grateful we are that you are with us in the morning but we are. I'm Christi Paul and --
SAVIDGE: I'm Martin Savidge in for Victor Blackwell.
It is wonderful to be with all of you.