Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Oakland Fire Death Toll Climbs. Story of Warehouse Resident; City Councilman on Warehouse Fire; Ivanka Trump to Talk Climate Change with Al Gore; Trump Widens Search for Secretary of State; Trump Hits China. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 05, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:21] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there and welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Brianna Keilar.

And in Oakland, California, the death toll from that horrific fire now stands at 36. Officials say they do expect that number to rise even further, making this the deadliest fire in the city's history.

Officials are updating us this morning. Here's what we know right now. Just after midnight, the recovery effort was stopped because of fears that the converted warehouse could collapse. About 70 percent of the building has been searched so far. Investors have quarantined the back of the building, saying that they feel strongly that is where the fire started. They still don't know what the cause is, though. The district attorney says he is assembling a team to launch a criminal investigation into the fire.

Stephanie Elam is in Oakland for us with the very latest.

And, Stephanie, you spoke with the battalion fire chief leading the recovery. What -- what have you learned?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. And this is just a difficult recovery here, Brianna, inside this building that is needing to be shored up because of the fact they thought it might collapse. So they're taking a break now to work on making that building safe for these first responders to get in there and to continue with the recovery efforts.

But at the same time, you're dealing with a place where they have found 36 people who lost their lives in this fire and they expect that that number will continue to go up. So this is what the Oakland fire battalion chief told me about how they're doing and how they're haling this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELINDA DRAYTON, OAKLAND FIRE BATTALION CHIEF: We're making sure that on an emotional level, and both the sheriffs and the firefighters are able to continue to do their job in a way that's professional and respectful. And you can see the raw emotion on everybody. We're, you know, we're two days into this. We're going to be here for a while, and making sure that everyone is really capable of continuing to work in their capacity, and making sure that they are doing good work, even with heavy hearts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: Heavy hearts and doing it quite methodically, being painstakingly slow with their progress as they make their way through. They're hoping to get back into the building this afternoon to continue those recovery efforts, Brianna. And they also know that rain is in the forecast and they said they're not going to speed up any of their work efforts simply because of the rain. They're going to still take their time because they want to make sure that they don't miss anyone who died in this fire.

KEILAR: ATF, Stephanie, is involved now, right? The federal -- federal investigators are involved?

ELAM: Right, they've been involved. In fact, that was part of the reason why they decided to stop investigating and searching in the building last night because they could see that part of the building looked like it was leaning that should be straight and they do not want to see any more loss of life. So they're looking at this. We also know there there's an arson task force that's been green lit. We also know that they are also looking into a criminal investigation as well as far as the district attorney's office is concerned because they want to be prepared. They know that they are, so far, 36 families that are looking for answers and so they want to make sure that they can find all of the clues that they can inside the building.

KEILAR: All right, Stephanie Elam, keeping up updated there in Oakland. Thank you.

The warehouse that burned was well known around Oakland as an artists' workspace, sometimes a performance space. It was nicknamed "the ghost ship" and the inside was filled with paintings and exotic artwork, ornate beds, mirrored furniture, tables, benches, as well as a number of artifacts. You can see in some of the photos here that were posted online. It shows plenty of instruments. There were drums, keyboards, guitars. Oakland's interim planning director says the building was only supposed to be used as a warehouse, not as a place for people to live.

My next guest knows this building well. Shelley Mack is an artist who did live in the warehouse.

Shelley, thank you so much for being with us. And tell us a little bit about this warehouse, your experience living there and some of the concerning you had.

SHELLEY MACK, FORMER RESIDENT OF WAREHOUSE: Yes, thank you. I moved in, in October 2015, because I was looking for a place. I had lost my previous place, high rent. I needed to place to stay that was close to work and to start up my jewelry business. I've always made jewelry business. I'm in textiles, but I do jewelry.

Shortly after -- and I paid $700 to move in. I paid -- when I moved in, they told me I needed to pay another $700 towards fixing the place up, fixing the electricity, fixing, you know, it up to be legal, you know? Well, not legal. They didn't mention legal at the time. And then shortly --

KEILAR: When -- when you -- Shelley, let me just stop you real quick. When you're saying "they," you're talking about the couple who operated this sort of co-op?

MACK: Yes, Derick Ion (ph) and his wife Micha (ph).

KEILAR: OK.

MACK: Yes. Yes.

KEILAR: OK. And so you were renting out, what, you were renting out an RV?

MACK: And there were other people, but they were the leads (ph), yes.

[12:05:02] I was renting out an RV, yes.

KEILAR: But it was inside, right? It was inside the building?

MACK: It was about (INAUDIBLE).

Inside. That's correct.

KEILAR: OK. OK. So tell me -- so then they tell you that you need to pay $700 more for repairs because obviously the conditions were not great. What were the conditions like when you're talking about bathrooms, electricity, heat?

MACK: We had one bathroom, which was in bad repair. So it was to go to fix that bathroom, to install another bathroom and to fix up the place so that it was clean and, you know, habitable. It was -- it was really rough. And they sold the dream that, yes, we're all going to get together and do venues and collaborate as artists and, you know, become part of this collective. But after I moved in -- not long after I moved in, I found out we had to hide other things (ph) when the owner came by because it's not slated as a live-work place and we all lived there. There were 10, 12 people, up to 20 people there at some times. Then shortly thereafter I --

KEILAR: So you -- 10, 12, 20 people for one bathroom, right?

MACK: Yes. Yes.

KEILAR: And you're talking about -- you're talking about types of heat and sources of electricity as well, right?

MACK: Yes.

KEILAR: Can you tell us about that, that certainly would not be legal? Tell us about it.

MACK: Yes. The transformer blew maybe a couple of weeks after I moved in and we had no electricity, no heat. And when I asked why we weren't calling PG&E, that's when I found out it was an illegal hookup to PG&E. That PG&E didn't know about. We never got a bill for it, so I'm assuming that they didn't know nor it wasn't hooked up to the neighbors or we would have probably got a really high bill. There were -- we used massive amounts of electricity. There were fires that were started from electrical cords, transformers. The transformer blowing up. We had to pay to get a new one.

There was, you know, intermittent heat and electricity. People were in the hospital because they were sick with flu. I was sick with flu several times in the hospital because there was no heat. It was 30, 40 degrees. The kids were in there. They lived there. They had no shoes, and no coats and no hats. So when (INAUDIBLE) --

KEILAR: When you're talking about the children, you're talking about the children of the couple who ran this sort of -- this as a group home.

MACK: Yes. Yes. Who said they lived somewhere else. No. Yes.

KEILAR: OK.

MACK: They lived there.

KEILAR: OK.

MACK: The whole time (INAUDIBLE). They were taken away. They were brought back and they lived there with Derick and Micah, who lived there, yes.

KEILAR: OK. So --

MACK: So --

KEILAR: When you heard that this happened, Shelley, it sounds like --

MACK: Say that --

KEILAR: Some of the things that you experienced while you were there, I mean, you could see how that would just sort of get out of control, if you're talking about cords sparking --

MACK: Oh, yes.

KEILAR: And the fact that we now know there were no -- there were no sprinklers. So what are your thoughts now --

MACK: That's correct.

KEILAR: As you see what happened in this place where you loved really not all that long ago?

MACK: Yes. Not that -- that was the last place I lived. So when I saw that there was a fire, my daughter-in-law posted it on Facebook, and I saw there was a fire and I didn't recognize the building. And then I scrolled down and I saw the address, so I knew what it was. I expected it to be shut down a long time ago. I called the police

three times myself. They escorted me out of that place when I was living there. So they were in there to escort me out. The police were there like every single week when I was there, more than one time in a week. I called them three times in one week myself. There were several police there that they -- Derick and Micah all knew on first name. They were there on a regular basis. On a regular basis. I called them and I explained everything when I was leaving. They suck people in. The people that don't go along with what's going there, they make -- they ostracize them. They would turn my heat off. They would block me from the bathroom. I would have to go to work and shower there.

KEILAR: Shelley, you're saying the police -- Shelley, you're saying the police escorted you out when you left? Is that -- who escorted you out when you left?

MACK: Yes, they escorted me out. I told them I needed -- there were two policemen at the time that they escorted me out. They came inside and had to watch, because that -- they had threatened my life. They had pulled guns on me there. So they knew. I told them everything. I told them everything.

KEILAR: Who --w ho pulled a gun on you, Shelley?

MACK: Oh, Derick -- one of Derick's friends. And he thought -- there's a police report. I called -- everybody called the police.

KEILAR: So you were sure the police were well aware that this was a residential space --

MACK: Yes.

KEILAR: That should not have been one? You have no doubt?

MACK: Yes. Yes. They were well aware. I told them.

KEILAR: This would have months ago, right? Would this have been, when, the spring?

MACK: Two years ago. They knew two years ago. They could have stopped it then. I told them. Everybody was telling them. Everybody they kicked out told them.

KEILAR: But you said you moved in in October of 2015, right?

MACK: You know, we -- 2014.

KEILAR: 2014. OK. So this would have been -- this would have been sometime in -- in early 2015 that you had an escort out by police, is what you're saying?

MACK: That's correct. I left early February. And I took pictures of all the violations. I just gave up when I left because they threatened me, they threatened my kids. The police weren't doing anything. Housing. Nobody was doing anything. CPS was in there all the time. Nobody did anything. KEILAR: Yes.

MACK: And that was two years ago.

KEILAR: It's stunning.

MACK: So I'm sure that they've been there since.

KEILAR: All right.

MACK: This guy's a criminal. He's not just an addict, he's a criminal.

KEILAR: And we are going to see how this plays out with the --

MACK: He knew. Derick knew.

KEILAR: With the criminal investigation.

[12:10:02] Shelley, thank you so much. We really appreciate you being on with us --

MACK: Oh, you're welcome.

KEILAR: And giving us some insight to what the conditions were like inside. And also someone who's just been listening to what Shelley's been telling us is Noel Gallo. He is an Oakland city councilman. The warehouse is actually in his district.

Noel, I hope I'm saying your name correctly there. Tell me if I'm not. We do appreciate you joining us.

But you heard what Shelley described from these conditions. You -- she is saying that police were well aware of this situation. Maybe you can shed some light on why something like this might not have risen to the priority of shutting it down? Is this something that is usual, or that wasn't seen as a danger?

NOEL GALLO, OAKLAND CITY COUNCILMAN: I -- you know that it is -- I just heard the lady's presentation and it's really inexcusable in terms of our response. And certainly by the police being there, acknowledging the activity that was going on, and certainly their neighbors have reported it for several years, the activity, the merchants have been involved in the reporting the activity at night, especially on the weekends. It's -- it's unexplainable. They're -- I'm not here to make excuses, but I will tell the public that, one, is public safety is a priority. We want to make sure that within these warehouses, within these apartments, that we need to provide public safety first when it comes to fire protection, when it comes to making sure that we follow the building codes as well. At the end of the day, as a property owner, that's responsible, and they need to be held accountable for their actions or lack of. And we have communicated --

KEILAR: Well, Noel -- councilman, it sounds like -- can you -- can you tell me, it sounds like you have this couple that was operating this warehouse as sort of a co-op artist commune situation, different than the owners. That was how Shelley was describing it, that when the owners might come by, there was an effort to hide the fact that people were living there. Is that your understanding?

GALLO: I -- you know, we're -- you know, we -- I live a block away and certainly I have seen people living there.

KEILAR: OK.

GALLO: And I know the individual that manages, I know the owner and certainly -- but I will tell you, at the leadership role, the role that I currently play, that we are looking to putting the building inspectors together with the fire marshals as one unit so they can inspect these facilities, they can be present on the weekends, weeknights when it -- weekend nights when -- when there's -- they need to be there. And not only that, but the law really clearly says that every six months we have a responsibility to inspect, especially these warehouses and facilities where we're trying to do business.

KEILAR: Is this -- is it a usual thing -- can you sort of explain that to our viewers? I did used to live not too far from Oakland and I know obviously with the rent being what -- the rents being what they are, you heard from Shelley there, it's -- it's attractive to try to find a lower rent situation. Maybe to live in a community with artists. But is this something that happens frequently, where people are essentially -- they're essentially squatting or they're living in buildings that they definitely should not be living in?

GALLO: And I -- and I heard the comment and I support live/work spaces, but I will also say there are a number of live/work spaces where we do have -- we're meeting the fire code, the building code and trying to keep the rent where all of us can live there, but at the same time our ultimate responsibility is to be safe, public safety. But not only for the artists, but we have a large immigration community where there's ten living to an apartment complex sometimes and we need to make sure that their children and all children in Oakland, on these streets specifically, because the city has not given the attention to east Oakland that they have to other neighborhoods. So that is my goal and that is what's being communicated to the mayor and that there's a demand that's coming up actually this coming week in terms of making sure that the code inspectors, the building and the fire department come together as one unit to keep us safe on these -- in these facilities.

KEILAR: All right. And unfortunately for these 36, and potentially more souls, it is too late for that.

Councilman Noel Gallo, we do appreciate you being with us from Oakland.

GALLO: Thank you.

KEILAR: And we do want to take a moment now to reflect on that human toll. It's just -- it's huge in this tragedy. So far 36 people have lost their lives and we're starting to learn more about some of these individuals and who they were.

Nick Gomez Hall (ph) was described by friends on FaceBook as a music loving genius and a brilliant artist. He was 25 years old. Cassius Few (pH) was described as a loving person and a talented

guitarist. Cash (ph) was just 22 years old.

David Klein (ph) was 35 years old. His brother left this parting message on FaceBook. To David, we love you. You will always be with us.

[12:15:03] Travis Huff (ph) was reportedly a creative arts therapist and a member of a band. The band's manager says Travis was a bright light for everyone that he ever met. He was 35 years old.

Donna Kellogg (ph) is being remembered by friends as a beautiful, giggly wise person who will be missed. She was 32 years old.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The Trump administration starts 46 days from today, and the list of people joining it, potentially joining it, or just talking about it with the president-elect, gets more intriguing by the day. Almost two weeks after Ben Carson tweeted that an announcement about his role in the new administration was forthcoming, Donald Trump has confirmed, finally, that his one-time rival and -- is his pick for secretary of Housing and Urban Development.

Still no decision on the secretary of state front. But here's something to chew on while we wait. Word that Ivanka Trump is meeting today with Al Gore on the issue of climate change. I'm sure you'll remember the president to be once famously called global warming a hoax invented by the Chinese.

[12:20:05] CNN's Jessica Schneider is keeping watch at Trump Tower.

And, Jessica, any more intel on this Gore meeting and if Donald Trump perhaps is going to be there or it's just going to be his daughter?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, right now Donald Trump will not be in that meeting. It will just be the former vice president, the former presidential candidate, meeting with the future first daughter, Ivanka Trump. That meeting scheduled for today inside Trump Tower.

And the topic du jour will be climate change. Obviously it's Al Gore's signature issue. And it's an issue that Ivanka Trump has expressed some interest in of late, along with her interest in child care, something she addressed at the Republican National Convention.

Interestingly as well, you mentioned that Donald Trump has talked about climate change as a hoax, something that's been manufactured by the Chinese. But of late he's shown a little bit of latitude in that position. In fact, when he talked with "The New York Times" editorial board and reporters back just before Thanksgiving, he did say that he thinks there could be some connectivity between humans and climate change. So maybe a little bit of wiggle room in this position there. But Ivanka Trump meeting with Al Gore right here at Trump Tower today. Interestingly, this news comes as we're still wondering what role Ivanka Trump will play in her father's administration and we've also learned that Ivanka Trump and her husband, close Trump adviser as well, Jared Kushner, they are, in fact, house hunting in D.C. So could a move with their three children be imminent as well?

Brianna.

KEILAR: Wow. All right. And secretary of state, catch us up on that. Where are we?

SCHNEIDER: Well, just as we thought the list was actually narrowing, it appears that there seems to be an addition of several names. You know, of course, we have those leading contenders in the initial contenders of former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, all -- as well as former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

But, you know, in recent days, we've actually had some other names added to that list. Last week we saw former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton in here. And this weekend, a very public plea perhaps from general -- former General David Petraeus. He is now being considered as well. Of course, Petraeus pled guilty to mishandling classified information. But he was on the airwaves this weekend saying that he has apologized for his mistake and that that mistake should not be a disqualification for consideration of secretary of state. And then also the most recent name we're hearing, former Utah governor, Jon Huntsman, also a former ambassador to China with -- in Barack Obama's first term. He speaks fluent Mandarin and is hard line on China, something obviously China has been a topic that Donald Trump has talked about and tweeted about a lot of late. So a lot to consider. We're still keeping watch out here.

Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, thank you for doing that, Jessica Schneider at Trump Tower.

Cue my panel of experts. Eugene Scott, reporter for CNN Politics, Anna Palmer, senior Washington correspondent for Politico, and our Mark Preston, CNN Politics executive editor.

OK, so secretary of state. This is pretty interesting, Anna, that Jon Huntsman is in the mix. That makes you wonder if, you know, that's someone who might kind of fill the role that a Mitt Romney might fill, right?

ANNA PALMER, SR. WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Well, he's certainly -- Mitt Romney is his nemesis, so things are getting more interested in this kind of daily deluge of reality television for who is going to be secretary of state. He certainly is qualified. He would be kind of a statesman-like figure. But it will be really interesting to see. I mean there's -- as she just named off, there -- every day we have more people that are being under consideration.

KEILAR: But what do we make of that, that there's more people and it's not being whittled -- it seemed like he was going in one direction.

EUGENE SCOTT, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Right.

KEILAR: It seemed like it was Romney. Then perhaps it was Petraeus. And -- I mean what do you think?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, clearly, Donald Trump hasn't settled on who he wants to be the secretary of state and what qualities he wants to see in it. He was very intrigued after that dinner with Mitt Romney, you know, a couple weeks ago, in a very public space where they had a discussion and they got along. And the readout afterwards from my folk whose know of the meeting said that they got along really, really well and they actually thought that he was going to move in that direction.

The David Petraeus thing, though, certainly causes a speed bump for someone like Mitt Romney because he is still well respected in Washington by Democrats and Republicans. He did make a major mistake. The question is, because Donald Trump made such a big kerfuffle over the -- or I should say some work a -- you know, talked about the controversy --

KEILAR: He made a big old stink over Hillary Clinton's e-mails --

PRESTON: Yes, of Hillary Clinton's e-mails and --

KEILAR: And potential mishandling of classified information.

PRESTON: Correct. Correct. Could that hurt Petraeus?

The Jon Huntsman thing, though, I do think is a red herring. I really do.

KEILAR: OK. All right. That's really interesting. What are you hearing?

SCOTT: Well, I think Huntsman's very interesting, especially given what happened this weekend with China. I think also it's a bit of a surprise because Huntsman --

KEILAR: President-elect Trump talks to Taiwan's president, right?

SCOTT: Right.

KEILAR: he has this phone call with her. China, of course, is not happy, because they do not recognize Taiwan --

SCOTT: No.

KEILAR: Nor does the U.S., but they're really at odds with Taiwan. And then Donald Trump, instead of ratcheting it down, tweets sort of the China, like, whatever.

PRESTON: Yes.

KEILAR: We're not listening to you. SCOTT: Sure.

KEILAR: Right?

SCOTT: Attacks them for their military involvement with the (INAUDIBLE) of China, attacks them for trade and manipulating their currency. And I think what Governor Huntsman brings is more experience with China and knowledge in this area. I also think a fun fact is, Huntsman is a distant cousin of Romney and so I think that's an interesting --

[12:25:13] PALMER: And they do not get along at all. They are political enemies.

SCOTT: Yes, enemies.

PRESTON: At best.

PALMER: Yes.

KEILAR: The -- and Donald Trump alleges that China was devaluing their currency.

PRESTON: Right.

KEILAR: But they're actually -- they're not anymore, right? I mean so this is -- when you look at that, and him saying something, what are the ramifications for foreign policy when you have a --

PRESTON: Well, he also spoke about the militarization of the South China Sea and how China didn't come and ask us if they could do that or wonder what the implications were on our end if they were to do that.

The reason why Donald Trump, I think, is doing so well with voters right now is that he's talking tough and people don't think that the U.S. has been talking tough enough. In many ways that's why I think he's getting away with all of these exaggerations or lies because people are willing to look beyond that because they think that he's a strong leader.

KEILAR: Are there -- are there risks to this, though?

PALMER: Huge -- I mean there are huge risks. I mean I think, you know, in some ways, China is giving him a pass right now because they want to start this relationship, that is the a trade relationship, on as good a note as possible. But when you talk to former, you know, diplomats, they say, you know, even the change of an on or an of in terms of a title of how you'd address someone can be a big issue with China.

KEILAR: But what about the unpredictability here? I mean is this -- will you have other countries, perhaps, perhaps factoring in the Donald Trump algorithm where they say, well maybe, you know, we can't sort of take him at what he's saying the way we would have a George W. Bush or a Barack Obama? SCOTT: I think certainly I man people in the international community

have been paying attention to this election the entire time and a lot of people don't really know what Donald Trump is saying and what he means when he goes out, especially on Twitter. But I think a lot of people closer to his campaign are going to try to work to communicate a more clear and more effective message.

KEILAR: We'll see if they can. Eugene, Anna, Mark, thank you so much.

Up next, fake news is -- well, I would say it's harmless, right, until someone with a rifle shows up at a business -- or, sorry, a busy restaurant to investigate? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)