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The Future of Obamacare; Iran Says U.S. Cannot Tear Up Nuclear Deal; Ivanka's Role as First Daughter; Colts Crush Jets on Monday Night Football; Heisman Trophy Finalists Named. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 06, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00] DOUGLAS HOLTZ-EAKIN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN ACTION FORUM: Have that obligation. They understand that. And they're beginning that work right now. And in doing that replacement plan, it will say effective January 1, 2020, or something like that, the following conditions will prevail. And they will be cognizant of the 10 million people in the exchanges. They'll be cognizant of the governors that have expanded Medicaid and they will understand that those pieces of healthcare landscape are real but so is the reality that healthcare costs are rising at almost 6 percent a year again.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: So let's talk about --

HOLTZ-EAKIN: They haven't solved the cost problem that Obamacare failed.

HARLOW: Rana, Douglas brings up a very important point, and that is the cost.

RANA FAROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: Yes.

HARLOW: I mean, this couldn't have come at worst timing for Hillary Clinton during the end of the campaign and it was a real boon to the president-elect because the news came that Obamacare premiums are skyrocketing, up an average of 22 percent for the benchmark silver plan next year. It will cost a 27-year-old enrollee almost $300 a month now. And then if you look at some other states like Arizona, it's going to go up 116 percent next year. Not every year but at least for the next year. So what's the solution when you do have these skyrocketing costs?

FAROOHAR: Yes. Well, I think that the starting point has to be an understanding that in many ways Obamacare was a band-aid on a system that is way more dysfunctional at a baseline level. If you look at the U.S., which is largely privatized systems still, our healthcare costs are about 30 percent higher than the next most expensive country, which is Switzerland, and we have far worst outcomes.

You know, frankly, the solution I think to healthcare in America is to put it under a nationalized system. Now I know that might sound radical but frankly every other rich country in the world just about does that and has cheaper costs and better outcomes. The idea of changing --

HARLOW: People paying a lot more in their taxes to get that. FAROOHAR: Actually, at a national level, overall it would be a lot

cheaper. If you took Medicare, which frankly is one the most popular government programs of all time along with Social Security, and you actually decreased the age at which people could be eligible for that, it would work far better and at a national level would be far cheaper than letting a system, a market knows best system, continue to work in a way that is clearly broken.

HARLOW: So, Douglas, can -- obviously some people love that, say in Europe.

HOLTZ-EAKIN: So this is like the --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: And obviously some people hate it. Can this country afford that? How do you see that playing out Rana's suggestion?

HOLTZ-EAKIN: Look, look. This is exactly what was being said in 2007, 2008, leading into the passage of the Affordable Care Act. That's the reality. It wasn't a band-aid. It was an attempt to fix exactly the problems that we now realize it didn't fix. It didn't work at all. And we just went through a very big piece of legislation --

FAROOHAR: It was a Republican idea, by the way.

HOLTZ-EAKIN: -- to change Medicare because the Medicare program is not delivering high value care. It's delivering very expensive care with poor outcomes. So none of those things have been improved by the passage of time or the passage of the Affordable Care Act. So what we're going to see is an attempt to not nationalize and over-regulate and do top down, one-size-fits-all health care, which is what we've seen for eight years.

We're going to see an approach that's driven by conditions on the ground, the fact the U.S. is a very large 300 million people with very different kinds of health conditions and you have to tailor-solutions to the conditions on the ground. And that's what you'll see in an approach that goes from the bottom up.

FAROOHAR: You know what? Poppy, I'd love to just jump in here with two facts. About a third of the people in this country that cycle in and out of poverty do so because of a health care emergency because they're not covered. Fewer people will now -- or more people will be not covered if we deal with the Republicans are proposing. Secondly, if you look at how the markets have been receiving this news --

(CROSSTALK)

HOLTZ-EAKIN: Wait. The Republicans haven't proposed anything yet.

FAROOHAR: -- that you might actually --

HOLTZ-EAKIN: You can't say that. There's been no proposal.

FAROOHAR: If you turn back -- if you turn back Obamacare --

HOLTZ-EAKIN: How can you say that?

FAROOHAR: Pharmaceutical stocks are going up.

HOLTZ-EAKIN: But no one is saying that.

FAROOHAR: Insurance stocks are going up.

HOLTZ-EAKIN: It's just -- it's just scare tactics.

FAROOHAR: And people are going to end up being uncovered.

HOLTZ-EAKIN: Enter the reality that there will be a proposal. It's just scare tactics. You

HARLOW: Guys, I have to --

HOLTZ-EAKIN: You haven't seen the proposal. You can't say those things.

HARLOW: I have to leave it there. It has not been -- as Paul Ryan told our Jake Tapper a few weeks ago right after the election, it has not been drafted yet. We don't know what it would look like. Rana is obviously talking about some of the proposals that have been out there. But clearly, there's a lot more to debate. I hope you both come back.

Thank you, Douglas and Rana.

FAROOHAR: OK.

HARLOW: Coming up, President-elect Trump says he wants to scrape the Iranian nuclear deal. Iran's president, though, now coming out, speaking, saying, that's not going to happen. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:38:40] HARLOW: Iran's president making headlines today, saying he will not allow the incoming Trump administration to tear up the current nuclear deal. President-elect Trump has repeatedly said the deal with Iran was one of the worse he'd ever seen. He promised to reverse it when elected.

Joining us now from London, CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson.

So what are the big headlines here? And has the president-elect responded yet?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Not yet. What we're hearing from the Iranians, though, is really an amplification of what they've been saying since Donald Trump was elected. Sort of two days after that, the supreme leader came out, clearly very concerned about the nuclear deal. He was saying that this is -- you know, we made this deal, this deal will stick. We know United States is our enemy but the deal will stick.

Now they've seen this extension of the Iran sanctions acts and there's concern in Iran about that. Of course what the extension to the sanctions does is allow all the nuclear related sanctions to have a snap back facility. Of course, they were waived by Secretary Kerry right after the deal was made with Iran. Now you have this extension for 10 years. So you that protection if Iran steps out of the deal, this gets slapped back home. But clearly they're looking at Donald Trump. Clearly they're looking at the selection of General Mattis as Defense chief.

[10:40:05] And clearly the Iranians are concerned and we're hearing them ramped up their rhetoric. This is what Rouhani -- President Rouhani said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HASSAN ROUHANI, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (Through Translator): The U.S., as part of the Five Plus One, is one of our enemies and wants to pressure us. There is no doubt about that. We have to resist, be steadfast and find a way to counter it. They may break the nuclear agreement. They have already done so by extending the D'Amato Law. If this measure is actually implemented, then it would be a clear breach of the nuclear agreement and will cause us to react very harshly and severely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: So what the Iranians are saying, the extension of these sanctions hurts them in other ways. Nonnuclear-related sanctions are now going to be extended. This hurts their trading. They're not allowed to use U.S. financial services and the dollar. So this also seems to be part of their concern. But it does go a lot back to their looking at what Donald Trump is doing and his relationship with the Taiwanese, how that's antagonizing the Chinese, and this is causing them concern, that this is going to be potentially a president that they don't really know how to deal with and don't know what to expect -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Nic Robertson, very important headline out of Iran, thank you very much for that today in London.

Also coming up, she's an executive in the Trump organization and the president of at least one of his go-to advisers. What will Ivanka Trump's role be as first daughter? Also, discussion about potential conflicts of interests. We'll dive into that ahead.

But first, voting is under way for the 2016 CNN Hero of the Year. The all-star tribute airs this weekend. Make sure to vote.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are the kind and the caring. They are the strong and the brave. They are the ones who see a need, fill a void, make a difference.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't do it for themselves. They do it for all the rest of us. They are a reminder of what's good in this world. And what it truly means to be a hero.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have transformed the lives of thousands of children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This Sunday night, CNN presents a very special live event. The "10TH ANNUAL CNN HEROES, ALL-STAR TRIBUTE."

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Tonight we're gathered to celebrate the extraordinary men and women who highlight the best of what humanity has to offer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Join host Anderson Cooper and special co-host Kelly Ripa as we honor 10 extraordinary people. The "10TH ANNUAL CNN HEROES, ALL-STAR TRIBUTE" live Sunday night at 8:00 on CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:46:55] HARLOW: We know that Ivanka Trump will not be a typical first daughter, if there really is a typical first daughter. She is an executive at the Trump Organization and very involved with her father's transition to power. From talking climate change to the former vice president Al Gore, helping interview possible Cabinet picks and now she's planning reportedly to move her family to D.C. So what does this all tell us about her role as first daughter?

Here's our Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Like most Trump projects, the Washington Hotel opening this fall was a family affair.

IVANKA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S DAUGHTER: Two years ago when we promised the city of D.C. that Trump would be coming to Pennsylvania Avenue in 2016, we had no idea what we were foreshadowing.

BASH: It turns out Ivanka Trump had no idea what she was foreshadowing. And now her plan to move her family to D.C. is raising a slew of questions about one of the more fascinating aspects of what we know will be an unconventional presidency. The role Ivanka and her husband Jared Kushner will play.

In an interview last month, this was Ivanka's prediction. I. TRUMP: I'm going to be a daughter. But I've said throughout the

campaign that I am very passionate about certain issues and that I want to fight for them.

BASH: That explains her sit-down with former vice president Al Gore on climate change. But she also took the unusual step of attending a meeting last month between President-elect Trump and Japanese Prime Minister Abe, which "The New York Times" reports took place as representatives of Ivanka Trump products were in Tokyo working on a licensing deal with a company backed by a bank owned by the Japanese government.

(On camera): That brings up another conundrum. Trump's businesses. During his campaign, he said he would hand over control of the Trump Organization to his children. But if that includes Ivanka, it could pose a major conflict if she's also an active participant in the Trump White House.

(Voice-over): Trump told the "New York Times," "If it were up to some people, I would never ever see my daughter Ivanka again." It was tongue-in-cheek but revealing about how inextricably linked Ivanka is to the president-elect's professional life. It was as true on the campaign trail as it is in business, as he told us at the opening of his hotel in D.C.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT: I want to back my children. My children work very hard. Ivanka in particular. And at the opening of the hotel, I want to back my children.

BASH: And as president, his children want to back him. Especially Ivanka's husband Jared who played a leading role running the Trump campaign and now the transition. He's asked lawyers to look into whether he can get around a nepotism law prohibiting children and in- laws from administration jobs.

D. TRUMP: Jared is a very smart guy. He's a very good guy to people that know him. He's a quality person. And I think he could be very helpful. I would love to be able to be the one that made peace with Israel and the Palestinians.

BASH: Trump said his son-in-law would be good at helping make that happen.

Having Ivanka and Jared in Washington, maybe even in the West Wing, could pose conflicts and certainly would be unprecedented but it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

[10:50:02] I. TRUMP: He will fight for equal pay for equal work and I will fight for this too right alongside of him.

BASH: It was what Ivanka Trump promised and it was a selling point for many Trump voters.

Dana Bash, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HARLOW: Let's discuss with "New York Times" reporter Jacob Bernstein who co-wrote a fascinating article this week, "Will Ivanka Trump be the Most Powerful First Daughter in History?"

Thank you for being here.

JACOB BERNSTEIN, REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: A sign perhaps, the phone call between House minority leader Nancy Pelosi.

BERNSTEIN: Yes.

HARLOW: She calls President-elect Trump a few days after he wins. She brings up women issues. He hands the phone to Ivanka.

BERNSTEIN: Yes. And so that tells you either that Ivanka is one of the most important people to him, I think it does tell you that, but I think it also tells you, you know, that women's rights is not the first thing on his agenda. And so she becomes this sort of surrogate for this. And she is a person who has kind of wide -- sort of wide social net in New York with kind of progressive people. And so she's a good sort of foil to him in some way.

HARLOW: Yes, with some very progressive people here in New York. I mean, I remember interviewing her more than a year ago now and many people on both sides of the aisle were effusive in their praise for her. I mean, she's been very well liked before her father ran by some people across the board.

BERNSTEIN: Yes.

HARLOW: I find it interesting she's the one that facilitated that meeting between the Vice President Al Gore on climate change, something that the president-elect has called a hoax created by the Chinese, and it was Leonardo DiCaprio, you report, that may have helped sway her on that.

BERNSTEIN: Yes. Well, I don't know if he swayed her on it but certainly Leonardo DiCaprio went to meet her and he brought a copy of his documentary with her. Now given Trump's choice at the EPA, you would then --

HARLOW: Who is a climate change denier.

BERNSTEIN: Denier basically. I mean, you have this question of, is she really going to be influential or is she a kind of -- does she exist to kind of make them appear to be --

HARLOW: That's interesting.

BERNSTEIN: It's almost like when George W. Bush talked about compassionate conservatism. And then they kind of used that phrase to do a whole lot of things that, you know, if you were gay or a woman, it didn't feel necessarily so compassionate. HARLOW: One thing I find interesting about her is yes, she was

privileged growing up. Yes, she was born with a so-called silver spoon in her mouth. But she worked incredibly hard.

BERNSTEIN: Yes.

HARLOW: She went to Georgetown, then she went to University of Pennsylvania. She runs this big business and actually runs it. So no one can criticize her for not having worked hard to create success. She also, though, has some big-named critics out there, including, you know, business magnets like Barry Diller.

BERNSTEIN: Yes. So Barry Diller was a person who knew her obviously. Diane Von Furstenberg is his wife, and Anna Wintour has kind of been a mentor to her. And many of those people have kind of turned on Ivanka during the course of the election. They really felt that she should have stood up for what they believe is right and you know, she's a person who has kind of woven feminism into her sales pitch. And it's very hard to square that with the campaign that Trump ran and with the things that he said about Megyn Kelly and with the tape of Billy Bush, et cetera.

HARLOW: So what about, then, the concerns over conflicts of interest? I mean, she's deeply involved in the transition. But she's going to be running her business. And if they're living in D.C. --

BERNSTEIN: Yes, I think there's no good answer to that. I mean, I think that -- I think that when they get asked, is she going to be involved with the Trump campaign, she says no, or with his presidency, they sort of do a kind of no, I'm just going to be a daughter, it's what she said in Dana's piece. And then when asked, well, is this going to be the most right-wing presidency, they'd say no, look at Ivanka.

It becomes this -- depending on what the story is that they're being asked about, the narrative kind of switches.

HARLOW: Yes. And we'll see if he can get past that nepotism law that Dana was reporting and get Jared Kushner in to his administration. We'll watch what role that would be.

Thank you. It's a fascinating piece.

BERNSTEIN: Sure.

HARLOW: If you haven't read it, go to NewYorkTimes.com and read it.

Coming up, Colts quarterback Andrew Luck comes back strong after recovering from a concussion. He's putting his team in playoff position. Next, we're talking with football Super Bowl MVP Hines Ward.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:58:10] HARLOW: The Colts are back in the playoff picture after crushing the Jets on Monday Night Football. Hines Ward has more in this morning's "Bleacher Report."

Good morning.

HINES WARD, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning there. Yes, it was a dominant performance by Indianapolis Colts from start to finish. Colts quarterback Andrew Luck looked sharp, partly due to his time off. And also, Indy -- they needed a win.

Now before the game there was a moment of silence for former Jets player Joe McKnight who was shot and killed last week. And then there was time for Andrew Luck to go to work. Now he looked fantastic coming off his first concussion of his career. Luck threw four touchdowns. Most of them to Dwayne Allen. The Colts crushed the Jets. Indy's playoff hopes, well, they're still alive. They're in a three-way tie for the division league. The loss unfortunately eliminates the Jets out of the playoffs.

Now three quarterbacks are among the finalists for the Heisman Trophy. You have Louisville's Lamar Jackson. Last year's third place finisher Deshaun Watson from Clemson and Oklahoma's Baker Mayfield. And then you have Baker's teammate, wide receiver Dede Westbrook and Michigan's all around Jabrill Peppers rounds out the list. The Heisman will be awarded Saturday night in New York City.

And check this out, the Army will honor the World War II paratroopers with a special uniform in Saturday's game against the Navy. Sweet uniforms inspired by the 82nd Airborne Division. Now the 82nd was nicknamed the all-Americans because they had members from each state.

Now we haven't seen what, you know, any announcement from Navy about what they will be wearing, but check out what they wore in last year's game. They rocked it. Had the ships on the side of the helmet. Who can forget those? That's awesome. But I'm going to go and give Army the edge a little bit because, you know, we have our very own Coy Wire, he will have the best seat in the house, and we'll be in Baltimore with live coverage of the Army-Navy game starting on Friday -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Sounds like you have a fun weekend ahead, my friend, Hines Ward. Thank you very much.

And thank you all for being with me today. I'm Poppy Harlow in for Carol Costello. "AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND BOLDUAN" begins right now.