Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump To Meet with Kissinger; Trump to Meet with Outgoing NC Governor; GOP Lawmakers Resist Trump's Tariff Threat; House Conservatives Want Speedy Obamacare Repeal; Trump Says New Presidential Jet is Too Much; Warehouse Manager Says He's Sorry; Authorities Promise Thorough Building Search; Trump Faces GOP Resistance. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 06, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:16] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there and welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Brianna Keilar.

Henry Kissinger, the Democratic mayor of Washington, D.C., and the CEO of Exxon Mobil, may not have much in common. Today, however, all three of them, plus conservative talk show host Laura Ingraham, have meetings with the president-elect, 45 days before he is sworn in to office. If you're counting, it's been 132 days since Donald Trump last held a news conference. But this morning he did make a brief appearance in the Trump Tower lobby. And by brief I'm talking 41 seconds. He took about two questions, one of them on, what else, a tweet from a few hours earlier. This, "Boeing is building a brand new 747 Air Force One for future presidents," Trump tweeted, "but costs are out of control. More than $4 billion. Cancel order." Here's what he told reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: The plane is totally out of control. It's going to be over $4 billion. It's for Air Force One program. And I think it's ridiculous. I think Boeing is doing a little bit of a number. We want Boeing to make a lot of money, but not that much money. OK, thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Tonight, Trump travels to North Carolina for the second stop of his so-called thank you tour. Thursday he'll be visiting Des Moines, Iowa. Then Friday, Grand Rapids, Michigan, which is a state in the midst of a recount prompted by the Green Party candidate, Jill Stein, and ordered by a federal judge.

I want to bring in my colleagues. Jessica Schneider is in New York. Manu Raju on Capitol Hill for us.

Jessica, to you first.

This Kissinger visit, it's pretty notable given the friction that Donald Trump is causing with China. What do we know about this?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we know, Brianna, is that Donald Trump, in fact, will be traveling to Henry Kissinger's office here in New York City a little bit later today, as opposed to meeting with him right here at Trump Tower. Of course, the secretary -- the former secretary of state has counseled Donald Trump regularly, met with him throughout this campaign season. But, interestingly, Henry Kissinger did just arrived back here in the United States from China, where, among other things, he met with the Chinese president, President Xi. So could he potentially be carrying a message for Donald Trump?

Of course, Donald Trump ruffling many feathers in the diplomatic world among Chinese officials overseas, around the globe, after his call with the leader of Taiwan on Friday and then over the weekend those tweets about China, basically slamming China, accusing them of manipulating currency, and criticizing their military intervention in the South China Sea. Of course, that has led to questions as to what exactly Donald Trump's China policy will be. Will he adhere to the U.S. one China policy, or will there be tensions as we move forward into his administration?

Now, interestingly, henry Kissinger actually talked to our Fareed Zakaria back in late November, just after the election, and he said, among other things, that it's reasonable that Donald Trump would change some of his stances between campaign and presidency. Also going on to say that consistently is impractical when it comes to fluid international situations. So I'm sure that former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger will have a lot of wisdom to impart as he has been throughout the campaign and throughout this transition process. Perhaps even bearing a message from Chinese President Xi.

Brianna.

KEILAR: And tomorrow, Jessica, the president-elect will meet with a recently unemployed American. Tell us about this.

SCHNEIDER: That's right, Brianna. Tomorrow there's a scheduled meeting right here in New York with North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory. Of course, McCrory, just in the past day, conceding the gubernatorial election there in North Carolina to the state attorney general, Roy Cooper. It was a contested election in several North Carolina counties, but finally Governor McCrory saying he will no longer contest that election. He will step down from the governorship come January. So the question is, when he meets with Donald Trump tomorrow, could any cabinet positions be on the agenda? Of course, Governor McCrory will be out of a job come January.

Brianna.

KEILAR: Sure will be.

All right, Manu Raju on The Hill for us. Tell us about what is -- what really has congressional Republicans and Donald Trump, it seems, at odds? This plan by Donald Trump to put big tariffs on U.S. companies that move overseas. MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, that's right, Brianna. Actually not just at odds. Republicans are just not supporting this idea. There is very little, if not hardly any at all, support for this idea. It really flies against Republican orthodoxy of creating -- of lowering taxes, creating a playing field on which businesses can compete in the United States, as well as opening up the borders for exports coming in to the United States.

[12:05:00] I had a chance to ask both House Speaker Paul Ryan and House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy over the last two days, and neither man, the two most powerful politicians in the House of Representatives, neither one of them would support this idea. McCarthy saying explicitly that he does not what to start what he says is a trade war by going this route. And Paul Ryan, in his press conference today, said that there's other ways to achieve that goal, namely through doing a comprehensive rewriting of the tax code. That's a similar message that John Cornyn, who's a number two Senate Republican, just issued when I had a chance to talk to him a few minutes ago in the hallway, saying we need to do this through tax reform, not any new individual policies. So a little bit of pushback from Republicans on Capitol Hill, showing how difficult it is to maintain unity as soon as you start getting into the details of the legislative process here, Brianna.

KEILAR: And on Obamacare, too, there's pushback. Whether you repeal and immediately replace or you repeal and phase in some sort of new plan.

RAJU: Yes, that's absolutely right, because they can move very quickly next year to repeal most of Obamacare, doing that through the budget process next year and effectively avoiding Democrats in the Senate who could filibuster if they did not go through that budget process. But replacing the law, that's going to take time. There is some discussion about creating a three-year transition period between the time that the repeal would take effect until giving them time, three years, to enact a replacement. But some conservatives, including Jim Jordan of Ohio, are concerned with that three-year approach. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And one of the things he also -- there's also talk about a three-year transition period for Obamacare?

REP. JIM JORDAN (R), OHIO: I don't like that at all. That needs to happen a lot quicker.

RAJU: Really?

JORDAN: A lot quicker.

RAJU: OK. All right, and you'll -- you'll oppose that?

JORDAN: Well, we think the American people sent us here to repeal Obamacare, not to take three years to phase it out.

RAJU: Uh-huh. And three year, that would do -- and what is the concern with three years?

JORDAN: Well, the Americans -- look, I think health care will be better and cost less when Obamacare's gone. So why would you want to take three years to get rid of it? Right? It's that simple.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: While some say it will take three years, because that's how long it's going to take in order to get a deal to get a replacement done. But it just shows you how hard, Brianna it is to get Republicans in line behind one approach, let alone starting to cut a deal with Democrats over this very, very polarizing issue of replacing Obamacare. It's going to be incredibly hard next year when Donald Trump is president, and even though Republicans will have control of both chambers of Congress.

KEILAR: All right, Manu Raju, Jessica Schneider, thank you so much to you both.

I'm joined now by our panel of political experts. We have Rebecca Berg, as well as Eric Bradner, and Cristina Alesci is joining us from New York. She's with CNN Money.

And, Cristina, you have to explain something to us here because one of the things Donald Trump talked about today was the cost of the new Air Force One planes, two, that the U.S. government is working with Boeing to create. What's happening here? And is this something he can do, just taking on each company one at a time? He had the Carrier company last week.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, that's a great point. It's impossible to think that the U.S. president will be negotiating company by company, deal by deal on a regular basis, right? This is typical Trump M.O. He picks a target that he knows -- and a message that he knows will resonate with average people. $4 billion to the average person is a lot of money, and there's no context around this whatsoever. So he's going to get his troops, his supporters all riled up about an issue and the CEOs of these companies, they know the game. I talk to them on a regular basis. They're happy to play ball with the president, give him a feather -- the president-elect, give him a feather in his cap because in exchange they know that they have his ear, right? They want fewer taxes. They want to reduce their tax bill. They want less regulation.

And, look, just last week I broke the news that Donald Trump has assembled a group of CEOs who he's going to meet with on a regular basis. You know who's on that list? The former CEO and chairman of Boeing. So this is -- this is a game that Donald Trump has played. Rile up the popular.

KEILAR: Sure.

ALESCI: You know, the public, and then behind the scenes, you know, talk to the people who actually have the power to get stuff done.

KEILAR: Yes, and -- and Boeing -- Boeing out with a statement. Because that $4 billion number is so eye-popping, they're making clear that they were currently under contract for $170 million, that's a far cry from $4 billion, to determine the capabilities of these complex military aircraft. They're emphasizing, obviously, that they're doing this in increments of government contracts and they are stressing that they look forward to working with the U.S. Air Force to deliver the best planes for the president at the best value for the American taxpayer.

OK, Eric, you're looking at this. This is -- I mean some people would look at that and say, wow, that's a bit of a shakedown. You could also look at that and say, that's really effective. That's transactional, but that's really an effective way to move the bottom line here.

[12:10:04] ERIC BRADNER, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: I think it's fascinating that he's targeting Boeing specifically, because Boeing is the United States' largest exporter. So when we talk about the -- the possibility of trade wars, right, Trump is going after China. China is a huge Boeing customer. Huge customer. When we talk about these in the weeds policies like tariffs and even the export/import bank, that's a tool that most Americans might not understand, but that Boeing is incredibly reliant upon in its competition with Airbus, which is the big foreign airline manufacturing that competes with Boeing everywhere in the world.

So Boeing is the perfect example of a company that is affected by all of these in the weeds trade policies that Trump is sort of raising without much concern for what it might mean in terms of retaliation from other countries. And so Boeing and other U.S. businesses are --

KEILAR: They're concerned. They want a -- they want a seat at the table on this?

BRADNER: They're afraid that other countries are going to react in a way that makes it impossible to sell U.S.-made goods there.

KEILAR: OK.

All right, let's talk a little bit about Obamacare because, as we just heard, this is an area where congressional Republicans and Donald Trump are not seeing eye to eye, Rebecca. Listen to what Donald Trump said to "60 Minutes" shortly after he was elected.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLIE STAHL, "60 MINUTES": There's going to be a period, if you repeal it, and before you replace it, where millions of people could lose --

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Look, we're going to do it simultaneously. It will be just fine. We're not going to have like a two-day period and we're not going to have a two-year period where there's nothing. It will be repealed and replaced.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: That's not what congressional Republicans are saying. But I wonder if it's an issue of semantics or are there real differences, or both?

REBECCA BERG, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, REALCLEARPOLITICS: Well, I think Donald Trump publicly, and for political reasons, needs to make this sound as simple as possible because Americans don't need to be bogged down necessarily by the weeds of how this will play out in Congress.

KEILAR: The sausage making.

BERG: But I think there is a question, Brianna, of whether Donald Trump fully understands what he is going to confront in terms of the work he is going to need to do with Congress, not only on repealing and replacing Obamacare, but on all of his priorities. And he has a bunch of them. When we're talking about how long each of his priorities will take, his public statements do suggest that he doesn't really have a full understanding of how difficult it is to get anything through Congress, and especially when you don't have 60 Republican votes in the Senate, and that means you can have Democrats filibustering some of these issues, which is why, as Manu pointed out in his report, there's going to need to be a deal on repealing and replacing Obamacare. They're going to need a few Democrats in the Senate to come along on this.

KEILAR: There are many parts to Obamacare. The expansion of Medicaid. You know, whether it's not allowing insurance companies to discriminate on pre-existing conditions. Subsidies, exchanges. It's hard to imagine where congressional Republicans would take those things away, leave a gap, make some consumers very unhappy, and then become politically unpopular, though?

BERG: Right. And actually, the plan that House Republicans did release this year, the Better Way Policy Plan, which included their health care priorities, they actually keep a lot of Obamacare in place. So the part of Obamacare that protects people under the age of 26, keeps them on their parents' plans, protects people with pre-existing conditions and ensures that they're able to get coverage, these are all maintained in the Republican health care plan.

KEILAR: Yes.

BERG: So, actually, I think a lot of Americans would be surprised at how similar it ends up looking if there is a replacement.

KEILAR: Is it a -- is it a change or is it a repeal, right?

OK, Cristina, let's talk about this proposed tariff. Donald Trump says, if you're an American company, you go overseas, that's a 35 percent tax. And Republicans are -- they're not agreeing with him. So -- but tell us what this would mean for consumers.

ALESCI: Well, look, technically the president does have some power to actually do this without Congress, increase tax tariffs without Congress, and there is precedent for it. But the reality is, that this is an extremely complicated issue, and it's not going to be easy for Donald Trump to do this. Look, just to give you an example of how complicated it is, he would

have to set a standard by which companies would have to follow to be exempt on these tariffs. How much of the product is made in the U.S., right? Think about that. This shirt, for example, the yarn could come from India. It could be assembled in China. It could be stitched in Italy. Like, there are so many different places now where our goods are made. He would have to come up with a standard to set and say, OK, 50 percent of the product has to be manufactured in the United States to avoid these tariffs. That's just one complication. Let's just not even talk about some of the others.

[12:15:06] In fact, U.S. trade representatives around the world are a little bit seen as ineffective because there's so many different constituencies here that it's almost impossible to get anything actually done. I think what Donald Trump wants to do is get rid of multilateral trade agreements. He wants them to be more focused, which is great. But, again, this is the beginning of a deal. This is a beginning of a negotiation. And it's partially a message to China, to say, we don't like, you know -- his point is, we don't like the currency manipulation. We think it makes your goods lot cheaper. And it's an unfair advantage that the U.S. would like to even out. And I think that's in general Trump's message to both the business community and to China.

KEILAR: We'll see how that is received. Cristina Alesci, Eric Bradner, Rebecca Berg, thank you so much.

And just a programing note for you all. Vice President-elect Mike Pence talking to Jake Tapper today on "The Lead." This is going to start at 4:00 p.m. right here on CNN. So tune in to see what he says.

Coming up, that tragic fire inside an Oakland, California, warehouse. Thirty-six people killed. There are countless questions. What's next for investigators? We'll talk to a former ATF agent who can answer that question.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Investigators are back inside the Oakland, California, building that was the scene of a horrific fire that killed 36 people. They resumed their recovery overnight after concerns about a building collapse halted operations yesterday. Workers say they've now cleared 85 percent of the building and don't think the death toll will continue to rise at this point, but officials stress that doesn't mean the search for victims is over.

CNN's Paul Vercammen is in Oakland for us.

And, Paul, we've been hearing from the man who leased this building, who many people are pointing fingers at. He's basically the landlord. What's he been saying?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Derick Ion Almena was the man who ran this artist colony or enclave. He was the manager, and he is now in the crosshairs of this investigation. Many people pressing him, wondering why this place seemingly became a death trap, and he is now answering with just raw emotion, Brianna. Let's listen.

[12:20:12] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DERICK ION ALMENA, LEASEHOLDER OF BURNED WAREHOUSE: I would rather get on the floor and be trampled by the parents! I'd rather let them tear at my flesh than answer these ridiculous questions!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Almena, we'll -- we'll --

ALMENA: I am so sorry. I'm incredibly sorry. What do you want me to say? I'm not going to answer these questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then we will -- we will call this --

ALMENA: I'm just going to say that I am sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then we'll end the interview there, Mr. Almena.

ALMENA: If you have to hold my soul accountable -- if you have to hold my soul accountable for believing in something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: The manager of this place they called "ghost ship." Where was he the night of the fire? He has three children and a wife. And they decided to stay in a hotel because they had concerns about that, the electronic dance party getting too loud for the children. Back to you, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Paul Vercammen, thank you so much for that report.

As the recovery operations begin to wind down, the focus is now shifting to the investigation. I want to bring in Matthew Horace. He was the special agent in charge of a national response team for the ATF.

Matthew, this is the kind of incident, maybe not specifically this one, but somewhat similar, that it was your job to investigate at the ATF. What's the first thing that investigators are doing when they get to the scene of this kind of tragedy and here in the days since the fire?

MATTHEW HORACE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Brianna, as you know, their first priority is to try to secure this scene so that investigators can get into what we call the hole and begin the arduous process of cause and origin. We will use certified fire investigators. ATF has some of the very best in the world. And they will try to determine where that fire began, how it began. We'll use arson accelerant sniffing canines to try to evaluate the property to determine if an accelerant was introduced to the environment. We'll try to evaluate if it was electrical. If there were hazards that existed prior to the fire in the warehouse setting that might have helped to cause this fire and help to accelerate it.

KEILAR: I spoke yesterday with a councilman in Oakland who lives not far from this area and also a woman who lived for several months at "ghost ship," who talked about there being sparks from electrical cords and this kind of thing being a normal occurrence. Listen to what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHELLEY MACK, FORMER RESIDENT OF WAREHOUSE: I -- I expected it to be shut down a long time ago. I called the police tree times myself. They escorted me out of that place when I was living there. So they were in there to escort me out. The politic were there like every single week when I was there. More than one time in a week. I called them three times in one week myself. There were several police there that they -- Derick and Micha (ph) all knew on first names. They were there on a regular basis. On a regular basis. I called them and I explained everything when I was leaving. The police weren't doing anything, housing, nobody was doing anything. CPS was in there all the time. Nobody did anything.

KEILAR: Yes.

COUNCILMAN NOEL GALLO, DISTRICT INCLUDES OAKLAND WAREHOUSE: I live a block away. Certainly I have seen people living there. I will tell you, at the leadership role, the role that I currently played, that we are looking to putting the building inspectors together with the fire marshals as one unit so they can inspect these facilities, they can be present on the weekends, weeknights, when it -- weekend nights when -- when there's -- they need to be there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All of that exposure to the problems with this building, and nothing done by authorities. What do you think is the reason for that?

HORACE: We don't -- Brianna, we have two issues. We have the scene investigation, which we're going to do, but someone dropped the ball here as it relates to code enforcement. But keep in mind, investigators will go back and speak to all these witnesses to try to determine what they were seeing in the days and weeks and months leading up to the fire, because we're not going to discount anything. It may be accidental or it may be incendiary.

KEILAR: What would ATF -- what would investigators need to find in order for there to be charges against these leaseholders of this building, because there is a criminal investigation at this point?

HORACE: Well, there's two separate issues. There's the code enforcement issue and what the building was being used for and what it was supposed to be used for. But then there's this fire. What is the cause and origin of the fire? If investigators determine that it's arson, then they're going to go back to try to figure out what the motive was and who caused that arson. If not, it goes back to the owners. Someone dropped the ball on this as relates to code enforcement.

KEILAR: Yes. We will see. We do know that, according to witnesses, those owners had told people to keep it quiet, that there were people living there. So they certainly were aware they weren't supposed to be.

All right, Matt Horace, we appreciate your expertise. Thank you.

[12:24:37] And still ahead, Donald Trump doubling down on a campaign threat to U.S. companies. The only problem is that some GOP leaders, many of them, in fact, are not buying in. We're going to talk to one congressman about the president-elect's tariff threat, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Donald Trump says he is ready to make good on a campaign promise. It's now an ultimatum to U.S. companies. If you send your business outside the country, you will pay the price. Trump tweeting out this morning, American companies should be able to move through the 50 states without penalty, but if they move offshore, then he will impose a 35 percent tariff. Some GOP leaders, though, they are not buying into this.

I want to bring in Congressman Tom Cole. He is the deputy majority whip in the House.

And, congressman, tell us about your position on this because you were among many Republicans who don't think that putting a tariff on U.S. companies who move some or all of their operations outside the U.S. is the answer here.

[12:29:58] REP. TOM COLE (R), OKLAHOMA: Well, I think, actually -- look, we're all in favor of trying to make sure that we keep as many jobs in the United States as possible, and, frankly, grow more.