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President Obama's final speech on national security; President- elect Donald Trump canceling a contract with Boeing; Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 06, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: -- more on the cosmopolitan edges of the country who really, they say, well, that's distasteful. I didn't like him saying that stuff. I don't agree with that stuff. But you know what, I'm more concerned about my own job and my factory is closing. And I didn't hear Hillary Clinton say I'm going to keep your factories open. I heard Trump say that. I gave him a chance.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: And that was their bottom line.

JONES: That was their bottom line. And, so, yes, was there the alt- right and the white supremacist and the white nationalists? Yes and we have to keep talking about that because that kind of nasty stuff can grow. But there's a whole other section of people who had nothing to do with that who don't even like Trump talking in those ways.

CABRERA: They weren't fired up by that rhetoric.

JONES: That wasn't firing them up. What was firing them up was the economic message. And I think Democrats have lumped it all together and say, hey, listen, you know, it's all inflammatory stuff and for that family at that kitchen table, that was not the issue.

CABRERA: So you made headlines on election night for saying white lash. Do you still feel the same way?

JONES: I said it was a white lash in part. And I do believe that those white nationalist elements did play a role. But they didn't play a role with everybody and they certainly didn't play a role with all white voters and they did not play a role with the 80,000 voters who went from blue to red in the rust belt.

CABRERA: We are looking forward to seeing much more of that interview, your conversation with this family.

JONES: And that's why we call it "The Messy Truth." If you will say, well, it was all race. It wasn't race at all. No, it's messier than that. It was race here, wasn't there, we have to have a messier conversation to understand the truth.

CABRERA: Have you dealt with the messiness happening right now inside the Democratic Party? Let me give you an example. Yesterday vice president Joe Biden was asked about whether he will run for 2020 and he didn't rule it out. He did say he was or anything. But I think the bigger picture is he will be 78. Where is the younger stars within the Democratic Party? Is there a bench?

JONES: Well, I tell you what. This party took a real beating over the past eight years. We lost so many seats in Congress and state legislatures and nobody wants to talk about that. This party have to hit the reset button and start over again. When Sanders and Clinton are your superstars and they are up in years, you have to now look at the Kamala Harris who just won a Senate seat out of California, a Cory Booker and others and say can we get those folks ready. But you also might want to look at Hollywood. What if Oprah Winfrey came in and ran, you know? You know, Trump ran.

CABRERA: Michael Moore mentioned her name.

JONES: Michael Moore said it. Oprah Winfrey said Tom Hanks. I think now, you are in a brave new world and it maybe that being a well-known person is more important than being a well-known politician.

CABRERA: All right. Van Jones, thank you for joining us. And thank you for your show. That's tonight. Don't forget to watch, "the messy truth with van Jones" tonight at 9:00 eastern only on CNN.

The countdown is on to President Obama's final speech on national security. He will be giving Trump some very public advice in this speech including the subject of torture. We will have a live report from MacDill air force base in Tampa next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:37:27] CABRERA: President Obama is less than an hour away now from what is expected to be his final address on national security. The setting, as always, is deliberate. He will be at Florida, the headquarters of U.S. special operations command and U.S. central command. This is his speech on his legacy, his successes, his challenges, and his unfinished business, maybe some advice as well for his successor Donald Trump.

I want to bring in Gayle Tzemach Lemmon, senior fellow at the council on foreign relations. Also author of "Ashley's War, the untold story of the team of women soldiers on the special ops battlefield." And with us White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski joining us from Tampa.

Michelle, to you first. Set the scene for us. How much do you think this speech is about Obama's legacy on national security?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, he wants to cover all those bases that you mentioned, to talk about the threats that America has faced in the eight years he has been in office and why he thinks the way he has done things is the sustainable way and the way to keep going. And he is going to talk about evolving to face evolving threats to not commit a large deployment of U.S. servicemen and women, to reduce casualties on the U.S. side. To work with partners and try to get local partners to be the ones to lead the fight.

Does he need to be candid? Yes. And the White House acknowledges that. I mean, he is going to talk about more needing to be done against ISIS. And many times we have heard the president talk about, you know, his reflections on Libya, on Syria, on things that are not working as well as what is working. But he is going to make that case that the way forward is what he has put in place. And that is the way -- so in a sense, you can say that this is him communicating with the new administration.

But keep in mind this speech today, which is a big one, his last national security speech was planned a long time ago. So he didn't do this because Donald Trump is coming in as the new president. This is kind of a handoff in general where he can talk about his legacy and really stake that claim that what he has put in place should be the way forward.

CABRERA: All right. Thank you Michelle Kosinski reporting for us.

Gail, I want to bring down some of the key issues some of the areas of uncertainty with president-elect Trump. One being torture. We expect President Obama to talk about the ban on torture, practices like waterboarding and how he really wants to make sure those stay in place. Now we know that president-elect Trump has in the past said he wants to bring back waterboarding. That's what he said just a few months ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:40:09] DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Can you imagine them sitting around the table or whatever they are eating their dinner talking about the Americans don't do water boarding and yet we chop off heads. They probably think we are weak, we are stupid, we don't know what we are doing, we have no leadership. You know, have to fight fire with fire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: He did kind of back track a little bit after he met with James Mattis, his pick for defense secretary. And when he told them I would rather have a beer and try to get a guy to, you know, tell me things, secret things, that way versus torture. Where do you think he goes on this issue?

GAYLE TZEMACH LEMMON, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: It is really unclear. But there's a lot of conversation now about can he be convinced to that actually torture is not effective by people who trusts? Meaning people in uniform, meaning people who were retired generals, perhaps. Perhaps those who are going to potentially lead at the Pentagon. Because when you talk to folks who have served on the frontlines of these post-9/11 war, many of them will say that torture actually wasn't effective. And that's why I think General Mattis was pick to say the pack of cigarettes was actually usually better tool for him you are learning what they needed to learn than torture. And he will try to convince both sides. senator McCain has said much the same.

CABRERA: General Mattis has also commented on the Iran nuclear deal. Didn't like it. He is also have the mentality that this is something we are in it now. We can't really backtrack. We have to work with allies. Donald Trump has said he would renegotiate the deal. How realistic is that?

LEMMON: Well, actually, I mean, the question I think on the run is end versus enforce. Are they really going to end the deal? You know, you have the current CIA director saying he thinks it would be the height of folly although the incoming potential CIA director, he said, he can't wait to unwind the deal. But it is can you satisfy the critics by enforcing more strongly the Iran deal? And that's what you see people really who are critics of the deal really focused on that versus unwinding entirely.

CABRERA: And very quickly because we're running out of time. I know you wrote a piece for CNN.com, remembering America's forgotten wars. Talk to me about General Mattis who is going to be on stage next to president-elect Trump tonight on his thank you tour. What should we know about him?

LEMMON: General Mattis did not endorse a presidential candidate which is really interesting. And he is known as being a marine's marine or you know bit really caring about the folks who served under him. He's a fan of good to great and the meditations of Marcus Arelius (ph). He is known as being an erudite thinker and also being - known as somebody who really does not want to rush into a conflict in United States and has often been pulling out power point, hates power point and trying to get people to think through the consequences of the national security decisions they are making particularly on America's fighting men and women.

CABRERA: We can get more details by reading your story on CNN.com right now. Thank you for joining us Gayle Lemmon. We appreciate it.

Don't forget Farred Zakaria talks with President Obama about the triumphs and struggles during his time in the White House. CNN's Special Report, the legacy of Barack Obama airs tomorrow night only at 9:00 on CNN.

Still coming up, vice president-elect Mike Pence sits down with Jake Tapper for a one-on-one interview live right here on CNN. This as two of Donald Trump's cabinet picks come under intense scrutiny, including retired general Michael Flynn as national security advisor. His son was just fired, in fact, from the transition team. Dana Bash will join us to have more on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:22] CABRERA: At the top of the hour we expect to hear from the president at what anticipate will be his final national security address. That's just one live political power flair we are looking ahead. Also next hour, our own Jake Tapper will sit down live with vice president-elect Mike Pence. He is the head of the Trump transition team and in the spotlight today.

I want to bring in CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash.

I know you are just back from Capitol Hill. You got some interesting responses from senators on both sides of the aisle when it comes to the Trump transition. What are you hearing?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, a couple things. Let's just start with the whole kerfuffle, if you will, over the president-elect calling the president of Taiwan, that many people in the foreign policy world said was a diplomatic breach. It certainly was unusual. And then Donald Trump doubling down on that by saying on twitter that China has manipulated currency and so on and so forth and really getting the Chinese back up.

We heard from the incoming Democratic leader in the Senate, Chuck Schumer, saying that, you know, if he wants to call the president of Taiwan, if it means getting U.S jobs back and it's a baby step towards that, why not? And then on the Republican side, the chairman of the arms services committee, John McCain said he also thought it was fine and it was a good idea not just to call the president of Taiwan but to say the things that he said about China because they have been flagrantly flying in the face of a lot of international accords on many, many issues.

So, you know, there are people -- it depends on the issue, obviously, it depends on the member of Congress but the fact that you have that kind of bipartisan support for something that was and is quite controversial is telling. And the other thing that I thought was noteworthy on John McCain is that he thought that the idea of reviewing the Boeing $4 billion contract for new Air Force One was a great idea. He is always been a fiscal conservative. He was kind of, you know, always going after waste in the government way before, I think, it was cool. And he said, again, this is the arms services chair. He said that he thinks maybe Air Force One doesn't need all the security bells and whistles that the current one has and that the next one is supposed to be which is why the price tag is so high.

CABRERA: It's been kind of interesting as an observer to see the reaction. There's sort of this initial knee jerk reaction by a lot of people including the GOP members to some of Trump's actions of whoa, whoa, what is he doing? He is breaking the norms. And all of the sudden, there's sort of a coming around to the idea well, maybe it wasn't such a bad thing.

On the other hand, Trump's national security advisor remains under fire for his past and other controversial comments as well as his son. What is happening behind the scenes regarding Michael Flynn?

[15:50:07] BASH: Well, regarding Michael Flynn, the senior Michael Flynn, who is on top to be the president-elect's national security advisor, certainly there is a lot of talk about some of the tweets that he sent, he personally sent. Not currently but over the past many months, that pushed forward some fake news, if you will, some conspiracy theories. But more immediately, we do know that Michael Flynn Jr., his son, effectively got fired today.

Jake Tapper is actually just reporting that he was told that that came from the president-elect himself, wanted him out, because of the fact that he, Michael Flynn Jr., was pushing the whole pizza-gate conspiracy theory, which ended very badly. And as we have been reporting for the past couple of days, caused somebody to come in and investigate with a rifle into this neighborhood pizza place, neighborhood for many people who live in Washington, D.C. So that's what's going on there. It's the junior who is kind of out of a job. But the senior is under fire. But remember, the national security advisor is not confirmed by the Senate. So it is up to president- elect Trump to keep him. And I didn't hear anybody on Capitol Hill in a position of power just now tell me that they thought that he should get rid of him.

CABRERA: All right. Good to know. Dana Bash. Thank you so much for your reporting.

Again, don't miss vice president-elect Mike Pence's interview with Jake Tapper. That's just minutes away on "the LEAD."

But first, voting is under way for the 2016 CNN hero of the year. All-star tribute airs this weekend. Still have time to vote!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:51540] JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to "the LEAD," everyone. I'm Jake Tapper.

Welcome to a special edition of "the LEAD." In fact, the vice president-elect Mike Pence is here. And at any moment, we will see President Barack Obama walk up on stage. He is at MacDill air force base in Tampa, Florida. He will defend his doctrine and explain how he has fought terrorism abroad and here in the United States.

This morning, his soon to be replacement, president-elect Donald Trump had tweeted about curbing quote "out of control defense costs and government costs." And Mr. Trump said he is going to start, he says, by canceling a contract with Boeing, the largest exporter in the United States.

Let's go to CNN's senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny now.

And Jeff, you are in Fayetteville, North Carolina, where Mr. Trump is set to hold a thank you rally this evening. The president-elect tweeting creating something of a stir this morning by tweeting about Boeing.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: He did indeed, Jake. He is, you know, really on his effort here to create momentum that he is, a, creating jobs and, b, watching out, you know, for bloated spending. And by going after Boeing specifically, singling out an American company here, certainly creating waves.

He said that Boeing wants to spend $4 billion to make the new air force one. Well, the Boeing company says they don't know where that number came from. And the Boeing company says they will do what they can to, a, make a good airplane for the next president most likely and, you know, do it as efficiently as possible.

But Jake, certainly an interesting series of events at Trump towers. Donald Trump is quite literally through his showmanship unique to himself is trying to create this sensor that he is creating jobs and bringing investment. Of course, we have to look at the fine print of all these details, of which there is no fine print so far, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny in Fayetteville, North Carolina. Thank you so much.

Joining me to talk about this and much, much more is vice president- elect Mike Pence.

Thanks so much for being here.

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good to see you.

TAPPER: Election Day was four weeks ago today. Congratulations.

PENCE: Thank you very much. It's very humbling. It's hard to believe. It's already been four weeks, but in many ways it, for all the progress we have made in the course of this transition, which is moving at an historic and a record pace. I mean, this transition actually is now -- it's been certified that we're -- president-elect Trump is moving faster than any president-elect has in naming cabinet officials for the last 40 years. It's exciting to be a part of it.

TAPPER: Let's talk about the number one item on the news right now, which is the president-elect starting to talk about canceling the Boeing contract. That's how he began his day. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, the plane is totally out of control. It's going to be over $4 billion. It's for air force one program. And I think it's ridiculous. I think Boeing is doing a little bit of a number. We want Boeing to make a lot of money but not that much money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: There is no question that there should be more oversight over these contracts. But I guess our critics are wondering is this the best way to do it. The president-elect said that. Boeing stock took a big hit. It's rebounded but it took a big hit before the markets open. It's an American company, the biggest exporter in the United States. It employs 150,000 people, most of them in this country.

I guess the first question is, what is the $4 billion figure come from? Because that's confusing a lot of people.

PENCE: Well, I think --.

END