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Italian PM Renzi to Resign after Referendum; Austrian Voters Reject Far-Right Candidate; 11 Dead, 75 Injured in Pakistan Hotel Fire; 33 Confirmed Dead in Oakland Warehouse Fire; Trump Preparing to Shake Up U.S./China Relations; U.S. Army Blocks Dakota Access Pipeline Route. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired December 06, 2016 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[02:00:39] ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church.

CYRIL VANIER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Cyril Vanier. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.

We have a very busy hour ahead. First, in that vote in Italy, the Prime Minister Matteo Renzi losing a constitutional referendum in a landslide.

CHURCH: Supporters of European populism see it as a big win.

But the populist movement was shot down in Austria. Voters there rejecting a far-right candidate in their presidential election.

VANIER: We have reporters in Milan and Vienna covering these big political developments for us. We'll get to both in just a moment.

Let's start in Italy. Matteo Renzi had hoped to narrow the size and power of Italy's Senate in that constitutional referendum. Instead, it was a decisive loss. About 60 percent of voters went against him.

CHURCH: Now, the countries faces an uncertain future. But Mr. Renzi sent well wishes to those who opposed him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTEO RENZI, ITALIAN PRIME MINSITER (through translation): The "no" vote won in a very convincing manner. I sent my congratulations to the leaders of the "no" campaign. I hope they work well in the interest of our country, Italy and Italians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VANIER: "CNN Money's" Europe editor, Nina del Santos, joins us live from Milan. Let's look, Nina, at the economic consequences and the political

consequences. Start with the economy. I know the banks are vulnerable. What do you think might be happening over the hours and days to come?

NINA DEL SANTOS, CNN MONEY EUROPE EDITOR: Outside Milan's stock exchange, which is where I'm joining you from, there's about an hour to go before trading gets underway. People are expecting a very torrid session here.

You mentioned the banks. Some of the banks actually have board meetings today to try and assess the situation and where they go from here because the risk profile of the loans that they have on their books can change from here. They may have to pay more for debt to finance the loans they've extended to clients across this country. Some really nervous times for a lot of the heads of the financial institutions. If you take a look at how the economy has fared across Italy -- Matteo Renzi had, by the way, called this referendum on constitutional changed to try and empower any party that got into power in Italy with the tools to try to kick-start the economy and solve the banking crisis this country has. But he hasn't managed to pass that. It was a resounding "no" from the Italian people. The turnout was high, higher, by the way, than in some general elections that I've covered in this country. As such, he has fallen on his sword, much like in the way David Cameron fell on his sword after calling the referendum on Brexit in summer in the United Kingdom. So again, it's a return to political instability across this region that has investors not just across Europe but across the rest of the world worried.

We saw markets fall in the overnight session in Asia. And when it comes to the Euro, that's down to a 20-month low. And later on this week, we have the ECB having a meeting on Thursday. And before that, later today, the Eurozone finance ministers will also get together to discuss the events that have happened in Austria and Italy over the weekend.

VANIER: Tell us about the political landscape and how that's affected, in particular, Grilo (ph), the leadership of the anti- establishment Five Star movement.

DEL SANTOS: Yeah. A lot of people in Italy can't escape the irony that just a few hours before we saw the results of this referendum come clear across this country, across the border in Austria, it seemed as though people had rejected populism, only for it to bounce back in force here across this country.'

And you mentioned Grilo (ph), who is the leader of the Five Star populist movement. He wants another referendum, not on constitutional change. He lobbied very hard and spent a lot of money through his big media machine to try to convince his supporters and the rest of the Italian people to reject Matteo Renzi's proposals. He wants a referendum on the Eurozone. He wants to take to take Italy out of the single currency area. Across this part of northeast Italy, what we also have is separatist movements, like the Northern League, that also advocate similar things. They would like to see Italy -- some of them would like to see Italy cleaved into two, to separate Rome from the north and give more autonomy to this part of Italy, which is richer so it can spend and manage its own budget.

From here, we head into a period of probably political turmoil, a lot more populist voices like Grilo (ph). By the way, I should point out, he has ruled himself out of ever becoming the next prime minister. He has a criminal report and he's gone on the record and talked about that that many times in the past. He said he wants to see fresh elections within a week. That is unlikely to happen. Most political analysts will say we're not likely to see snap elections from here because the next election is set to take place in 2018. What we could see is a caretaker government and, yet again, that could be more uncertainty and more economic inertia for Italy from here.

[02:05:56] VANIER: "CNN Money" Europe editor, Nina del Santos, reporting live from Milan, thank you very much.

CHURCH: As we've mentioned, voters in Austria rejected the wave of European populism, electing left wing candidate, Alexander Van der Bellon as their next president.

CNN international correspondent, Atika Shubert, joins us live from Vienna with more.

Atika, Austrians apparently bucked Europe's move to the right, rejecting populism. Why did we see that happen, do you think?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRSPONDENT: You know, the numbers have come in and the state broadcaster had a really interesting break down in their exit polls, and they showed that while a majority of voters say that Hofer, the far-right candidate, was more relatable as a person, it was Van der Bellon that they felt was better representative of Austria to the rest of the world.

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SHUBERT (voice-over): The first time far-right candidate, Norbert- Hofer, ran for Austria's presidency in May, he lost by just 31,000 vote. This time, it was a clear defeat that could not be contested.

Alexander Van der Bellon, a 72-year-old economist, backed by the Green Party, beat him again by a decisive margin. Exit polls showed 53 percent for Van der Bellon and 47 percent for Hofer.

(on camera): Behind me now, you can see both candidates, Norbert Hofer, and Alexander Van der Bellon, giving interviews to state broadcaster, ORF, explaining exactly why they believe voters chose the way they did.

ALEXANDER VAN DER BELLON, AUSTRIAN PRESIDENT-ELECT: I think it's a historic day for Austria for several reasons. From the first time, a presidential election has to be repeated. And it was not just a repetition. In fact, it was a new election. Because, you know, conditions changed. The world around us has changed. We had the Brexit vote in Great Britain in the United Kingdom. We had the election of Donald Trump in the United States, and so on. In six months, many things happened.

SHUBERT: Voters were worried and anxious, but not just about immigration, which Hofer railed against, but also Austria's place in the E.U. And fears that the so-called Trump bump would bring populist and isolationist parties into power. It seems to have pushed voters the other way.

"My gut tells me to be worried," this woman said. "I fear that my daughter won't have the same opportunities as I did."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. Finish.

SHUBERT: This man told us, "I am worried about Austria and I hope it doesn't go the way of the U.S. or the U.K., and that it will be an E.U. for us all, and continues to be that way and not destroyed by some people."

Immediately after the polls, a resigned Hofer insisted that he was working to unify Austria after a divisive and prolonged campaign season.

NORBERT HOFER, AUSTRIAN FAR-RIGHT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIATE: I don't want to divide the country. Now it's to me and Mr. Van der Bellon to tell the people who supported us that it is important to see that we are one country. We are all Austria. And we have to work together.

SHUBERT (on camera): Does this put an end to this sort of populist nationalist surge we've seen in Europe?

HOFER: I can -- always I have to say the same thing. I'm not a populist. I don't want to be a populist. I'm a pretty normal guy, a level-minded man. And I want you to believe me, I'm not really -- I'm right, but not extreme right. I'm middle right. It's important for me to show that I'm not an extreme man.

SHUBERT (voice-over): The Austrian presidency is a ceremonial but highly symbolic role. Hofer's loss has dealt Europe's populist surge a blow. And now, Van der Bellon, a self-described child of refugees, is being hailed as defender of an open liberal Europe, but Austria is just the first of a string of election challenges in the year ahead.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[02:10:14] SHUBERT: In the polls, in the run up to the election, said it was too close to call, both candidates were neck and neck. But it was a decisive victory. It look like women, in particular, is what pushed the victory to Van der Bellon. More than 62 percent of the women here voted for him.

CHURCH: All right. Our Atika Shubert bringing us that live report from Vienna, Austria, where it is 8:10 in the morning. Many thanks to you.

VANIER: At least 11 people are dead after a hotel fire in Karachi, Pakistan. It happened at the Regent Plaza Hotel. An official said the blaze has now been contained. A doctor at a nearby hospital says the victims were killed by suffocation. 75 people were also injured. Authorities are saying the fire swept through the hotel with very little warning.

A short time ago, we spoke to CNN producer, Sophia Saifi, in Islamabad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SOPHIA SAIFI, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): We know that the mayor was speaking to the press overnight and he said there were absolutely no fire exits. There was no fire alarm to alert the people in the hotel that there was an actual fire going on. A lot of the people who died, all of them actually have died of suffocation. The 75 injured have also suffered from breathing issues. Even though the fire has been contained, it's still unknown as to what the cause of the fire itself was.

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VANIER: At least 33 people are now confirmed dead in Oakland, California, after a fire tore through a warehouse. These images show the building before Friday night's blaze. It was known as the Ghost Ship. It housed artist studios. Authorities say it did not have permits for people to live inside and the building's owners had been notified of hazardous trash and debris violations.

VANIER: As officials comb through what's left of the building, Oakland's fire chief described the blaze as one of the worst in city's history.

Here is what Oakland's mayor is said is being done to recover victim's remains and comfort their loved ones.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIBBY SCHAAF, OAKLAND MAYOR: But it is with so much grief and so much compassion that we, as your city family, share with you this horrific news. And as this tragedy continues to unfold, I want to again reassure you of what our priorities are as the city of Oakland. Our first priority is the imminent and compassionate removal of the victims of this tragedy. And I want to assure you that we are continuing to operate a 24/7 recovery operation to effectuate that removal. Secondly, we're focusing on supporting the families and the loved ones, some who are coming from very far away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VANIER: The mayor of Oakland speaking there.

CNN's Stephanie Elam is on site with more on the tragedy.

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STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The officials here saying it is two ugly of what caused the fire. But what they have said is they've gone through the building and broken it up into quadrants. They say they found victims in all four of the quadrants of this building. There was no one place that the victims were found. They're also saying some of the people that lost their lives were juveniles, 17 year olds, some young adults in their early 20s and some 30-plus.

They're also saying that they're in touch with embassies for people who are people who were from other countries that also lost their lives in the fire.

At this point, they had reached out to some of the families, but they're still working to identify some of the people who died here. They say some people, it's evident who they are. If they had their I.D. on them they can match it with fingerprints. But for others, where there is nothing there to identify them, they're having to get some source of DNA. So, they're asking family members, if you think you lost someone here, to preserve a toothbrush or hair brush and put it into a clean paper bag and hold on to it so that they can get to them.

But at this point, they're saying they would not be surprised if they actually do expect that the number of people who died here in this Oakland fire will increase.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VANIER: Coming up, Chinese leaders are facing a new assault on their policies from Donald Trump on Twitter. We'll go live to Hong Kong and Beijing for the latest.

[02:14:41] CHURCH: Plus, the U.S. Army's new decision on whether a controversial pipeline can be built near a Native American reservation. We'll have more on that on the other side of the break.

Stay with us.

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CHURCH: Welcome back everyone. U.S. President-elect Donald Trump may be preparing to shake up U.S./China relations when he takes office in January. First, he set off a diplomatic earthquake Friday by speaking directly to the Taiwan leader, ignoring nearly 40 years of sensitive diplomacy. Now he's going after Beijing's trade and military policies.

VANIER: On Sunday, this is what he tweeted, "Did China ask us if it was OK to devalue their currency, making it hard for our companies to compete? Heavily tax our products going into their country. The U.S. doesn't tax them. Or to build a massive military complex in the middle of the South China Sea. I don't think so," end tweet.

CNN's Alexandra Field in in Beijing and Andrew Stevens is in Hong Kong.

Alexandra, let me begin with you.

It's looking more and more like Donald Trump is ready to take his hard stance on China to the White House.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. We heard some tough talk aimed at Beijing from President-elect Donald Trump was Candidate Trump on the campaign trail. Those words played swell to his base. And now he's echoing those same sentiments on Twitter, going after Beijing again for alleged currency manipulation and bringing up the issue of China's interest in the South China Sea. So, these are issues that he has addressed before but he sends out these tweets on the heels of that phone call with Taiwan's president, which had broken some 40 years of protocol. It has sent waves of concern toward Beijing and throughout the rest of the world. And then he follows up with the tweets. So, what position does that leave officials in Beijing in now? That's something they've got to work out. Because this is truly unprecedented territory.

[02:20:30] Candidate Trump promised that his foreign policy would be unpredictable and he certainly seems to be acting that way, in terms of going on Twitter to seemingly espouse his foreign policy views. This is not nothing countries have had to deal with in the past, a U.S. president-elect seemingly sending out signals on his potential foreign policy on Twitter.

So is this just the sort of rhetoric that you're use to from Donald Trump or is it a sign of how he could change the relationship between China and the U.S. once he takes office. That's for everyone to see.

State media had opined before Candidate Trump won the election and became president elect, they said they predicted he would bash China in the initial stages of his presidency, and that would be designed to bolster his authority back at home. They saw him as somebody who is an isolationist facing a divided nation who would have domestic agenda that he would be primarily concerned with. In an op-ed that was published in a state newspaper last night, they write, "China should understand Trump has two faces. On the one and, he's bluffing and unpredictable. On the other hand, he has no plan to overturn international relationships and will focus on U.S. internal affairs to make America great again." That was the take away after the phone call with Taiwan's leader.

Beijing did launch an official complaint with Washington for the breach of protocol. But beyond that, there were messages in state news mostly saying that President-elect Trump needs to respect this long-standing relationship between U.S. and China, the policies that have governed that relationship. And this op-ed went on to advise that officials in Beijing should engage in constructive conversations with the president-elect.

So far, as of today, there has been no official response to the tweets that the president-elect sent out, however, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is holding a briefing right now. It's something they will be asked about. We'll all be watching to see how seriously they take these tweets and what kind of response they could have at this point -- Cyril? VANIER: Alexandra Field, reporting live from Beijing, thank you very

much.

CHURCH: Donald Trump's tweets made some bold allegations.

Andrew Stevens has been examining them for accuracy.

Andrew, let's fact check what Trump has to say about China. Is it a currency manipulator as he suggested in his tweets?

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN ASIA-PACIFIC EDITOR: Well, broadly, China probably is a currency manipulator, but if you look at how it's manipulating the currency, certainly in the last months, Rosemary, it would be manipulating the currency in the U.S.'s favor, because it's actually trying to keep a lid on the yuan plunging. China is a different position than most foreign currencies. They peg their currency. They don't let the markets decide what the value of that currency should be. But they're trying to introduce more and more sort of market movers for the currency, so it can be more fairly valued.

I've been speaking to economist and they say, broadly, it probably is probably fairly valued. But there's no doubt it has been falling against the U.S. dollar.

Take a look at these numbers here. It shows you what's been happening. The yuan is down 1.8l percent against the U.S. dollar since the election. But if you look at the other big currencies like the E.U. and Japan, the Japanese yen is 9 percent down. That's four times more than the yuan. So, China actually has been making sure the currency doesn't fall as much as it should, because any analysts will tell you, the yuan should fall much more than it actually is falling.

So is it a currency manipulator? Probably, yes, it is. But the real key though is this is something that we've heard from Donald Trump time and time again. It usually follows a threat to impose big sanctions on Chinese exports to balance the playing field, if you would like. If Donald Trump follows through on that, and we're talking about 45 percent taxes on Chinese goods going into the U.S., it doesn't take a big stretch to see China retaliating, a trade war being sparked, and losers on both sides.

CHURCH: That's the worry. But Trump also saying that the devaluation of its currency makes it hard for U.S. companies to compete. He said Beijing heavily taxes U.S. products going into the country, while the U.S. does not tax the Chinese products. True or false?

[02:24:59] STEVENS: This is a little more opaque, this one, because we've been we've been looking at this and trying to find out where China taxes U.S. goods and the U.S. government doesn't apply the same taxes. There is a value-added tax, a VAT tax, that applies to everything that goes into China and everything that is made within China, they are subject to 17 percent value added tax, which includes U.S. goods. Now, the U.S. doesn't have this tax. So, he could be talking about that. He could be talking about tariffs. But if he's talking about tariffs, yes, China does impose average 5 percent taxes on goods going into China. But the U.S. imposes average 3 percent tariffs on goods going into the U.S. So, what he's specifically talking about here, it's unclear at this stage, Rosemary.

But it's all circles back to that central point I was talking about before. If this is President-elect Trump preparing the way for President Trump to act, it is going to be a very, very difficult relationship between the world's two biggest powerhouses, economic powerhouses. And a problematic relationship with those two may well lead to a problematic global economic picture. Because they're just so powerful now, if they do spark a trade war between the two, there's going to be a lot of collateral damage outside those two economies.

CHURCH: Certainly has the international community on edge as we watch what may happen going forward in January.

Andrew Stevens bringing that report from Hong Kong, where it is nearly 3:30 in the afternoon. Many thanks to you.

VANIER: In the U.S., construction is stopping, at least for now, on a controversial pipeline project in the state of North Dakota.

VANIER: The line is finished, except for a segment that was originally planned to run under a lake that sits near tribal land. The Standing Rock Sioux tribe and supporters have protested the project for months now.

Sara Sidner reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Celebrations, tears of joy, chanting, and drumming, that's what was the initial reaction when the folks here found out that the Army Corps of Engineer was going to stop this pipeline by asking the Dakota Access Pipeline to be re-routed from the thing that has caused the flash point, rerouted and kept from going underneath the Missouri River.

It is a very big victory for the Standing Rock Sioux and all of the people who have been here for many months trying to stop this pipeline from potentially going under the water and one day leaking.

However, what we have also heard from the tribe is that they are concerned this may not be permanent, depending on which administration is in place, and worried about Donald Trump's role in all of this when he takes the presidency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today's decision from the Army Corps of Engineers to not allow the pipeline company to drill underneath the river and violate our treaty rights to put our children's health from cancerous waters is a victory. But it's a short-lived victory, one that we need to dissect, one that we need to analyze. We need to make sure that President-elect Trump can't override this decision here today when he takes office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: We're hearing that from other members from the tribe that even though this is truly a victory and people feel relief, there is also worry about what happens next. Right now, this camp is filling up. No one seems to be leaving.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Sara Sidner reporting there.

And the company building the pipeline says it remains committed to seeing the project through to completion without re-routing.

VANIER: A man who says he went to a Washington restaurant with an assault rifle to investigate a conspiracy theory is under arrest. Police took the 28-year-old into custody on Sunday. They say he went to a pizza restaurant at the center of fake news stories involving Hillary Clinton and a child sex ring.

CHURCH: The theories sprang up last month online. The store's owner and employees say they have been receiving threats.

Still to come here on CNN NEWSROOM, how the leader of France's far- right party is using Italy's referendum vote to empower her supporters.

Plus, rebels in Aleppo, Syria, are withering under a crushing government assault. CNN's Fred Pleitgen goes inside the embattled city. That's all coming up.

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[02:00:15] JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause.

Time to check the headlines.

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VAUSE: A South Carolina judge declared a mistrial in the case of a white former police officer charged with killing an unarmed black man. Jurors failed to reach a unanimous decision to convict Michael Slager of murder. The victim' smother says injustice will not prevail.

Prosecutors say the case is far from over.

Nick Valencia has details.

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NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After more than a five-week-long trial and days of deliberation, it was Monday afternoon the jurors passed a note to the judge saying, unfortunately, they were unable to reach unanimous consensus whether or not to convict Michael Slager of first-degree murder. There was some indication that there could be a mistrial on Friday. We heard news of a lone juror, somebody who said he morally could not convict the officer, his conscience just would not allow him to do that. Today, Monday, I should say, we learned there was actually a majority of the jurors who were still undecided.

This was shocking to the Scott family supporters. To them, the only evidence that was important in this case was the cell phone video shot by Santana. That video that showed Walter Scott running away from Michael Slager being gunned down being shot multiple times in the back. It seems, however, that the defense was able to cast enough reasonable doubt in the case of the state and that's why we reached this deadlock with the jurors declaring a mistrial. The judge doing that Monday afternoon.

Much was made by some elders in the Charleston community of the makeup of the jury. 11 of them were white, six of them white men, five of them white women. The only African-American was the foreman on this jury.

The family, however, at a press conference said that that really wasn't a factor. They believe and are still optimistic that they could get a conviction and a retrial sometime later next year.

We should also mention that Michael Slager is expected to face federal civil rights charges in early 2017.

Nick Valencia, CNN Charleston, South Carolina.

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VAUSE: China's President Xi Jinping has made a corruption crackdown one of his main goals. Investigators have been told to go after both the Tigers and the Flies, meaning high and low-ranking officials. Several high-ranking politicians have been fired during his tenure, but there's concern about methods being used to investigate these cases.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Human Rights Watch just released a report calling for an end to China's secret detention system.

Richardson is the groups China director. And she joins us live.

So, I, thank you for coming in.

It's called Sung We (ph), a unique system of discipline, and only applies to the 88 million members of the communist party. So, this essentially operates outside the Chinese legal system, is that right?

SOPHIE RICHARDSON, CHINA DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: Yeah, that's correct. There's no basis in Chinese law for this system and Chinese law is in fact very clear that the only entities that should detain and investigate anybody are the police and the state prosecutors, not the Chinese communist party.

VAUSE: OK. I mean, this is all very much in keeping with China, the party is supreme. You pledge allegiance to the party as opposed to the country. But some of the abuses which you have uncovered include prolonged sleep deprivation, being forced into stress positions for extended periods of time, deprivation of water and food, severe beatings. Detain ease are subject to detention in unofficial detention facilities. So, from your investigations, were you able to tell how widespread these abuses are?

RICHARDSON: I think it's a tough question to answer because the Central Commission on Discipline Inspection, which is the party body that over sees the system, isn't big on releasing public information or being terribly transparent. But what we piece together from state media reports suggests that the use of this system has increased considerably in the same time period as the anti-corruption campaign and that in 2015 roughly 330,000 party members were investigated through this particular system.

[02:35:09] VAUSE: Also, according to your report, many victims of torture. They told you that those who tormented them and their families were pro he moated for their effectiveness in handling corruption cases. Would that indicate that these abuses are encouraged by officials higher up the ladder? Is there any indication how high this actually goes?

RICHARDSON: Well, I mean, look, this system is overseen by a bureau member and presumably he and those further down the food chain are well aware of precisely how this system works. What we know about the party's regulations on the system include, for example, requirements that the rooms in which people are held be padded so that people can't kill themselves. I think that's indicative of how the system is designed to induce fear in people, essentially to make them to confess.

VAUSE: Have you put these allegations to the officials in Beijing? I'm just curious what their reaction has been because they don't often take kindly to these kinds of reports.

RICHARDSON: Every time we write a report, we send letters to the relevant government agencies months in advance, explaining that we're doing research on these topics, and asking them to respond to questions and making clear that we're happy to include their reactions in our research. They've never replied to any of the letters we've sent including for this particular round of research.

VAUSE: And just very quickly, did the crackdown, does seem to have a lot of report -- support, rather, within China. The president is being seen to be doing something. Do you think exposing anything like this will have any impact on what is actually a very popular initiative by president she?

RICHARDSON: Well, I think people rightly are enthusiastic about bringing corruption to an end, but I think many people also understand that torturing people into confessing to crimes they may or may not have committed is probably not likely in the long run to resolve the problem. And essentially that giving the party more impunity prolongs the problem rather than resolves it.

VAUSE: OK. Well, we'll see if there is any reaction. Somehow, I doubt it, but you never know.

Sophie, thank you for being with us.

Sophie Richardson, from Human rights Watch.

Appreciate it. Thank you.

The biggest night still months away, but a few hours we'll know which artist had a chance of winning a Grammy. Could we see Adele versus Beyonce match up? Gosh, I hope so. That's next.

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[02:40:41] VAUSE: It's almost like Christmas Eve. In a few hours, we'll know the nominees for the 2017 Grammy Awards. Many are anticipating Adele and Beyonce in a major match up. We won't know the winners until February.

Rosemary Church reports on the top contenders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's the music in your ears --

(SINGING)

CHURCH: -- on your radio --

(SINGING)

CHURCH: -- and stuck in your head.

(SINGING)

CHURCH: The sound track of 2016 will be highlighted with the Grammy nominations. Expect Adele and Beyonce to compete for top categories album of the year and record of the year.

Adele's song "Hello" is an emotional ballad.

(SINGING)

CHURCH: It was also everywhere in pop culture, parodied by people like former Republican presidential candidate, Mike Huckabee.

(SINGING)

CHURCH: And by these comedians who are struggling to diet. (SINGING)

CHURCH: Beyonce, on the other hand, stoked controversy with her song "Formation," with references to police shootings and the flooding during Katrina. But still Beyonce's album "Lemon Aid" was a smash with critics and fans.

We could see the late David Bowie get a nod at the Grammys.

(SINGING)

CHURCH: His song "Lazarus" was seen by many as foreshadowing his own death.

And don't forget about the Justins, as in Timberlake and Bieber. J.T.'s "Can't Stop the Feeling" might appear in a major category. And the Beebes could appear in the song-writing category for "Love Yourself."

Best new artist could see an international upset with Lucas Graham's "Seven Years."

But the Grammys is also known for its odd moments, like when Paul McCartney was denied entry to an after-party earlier this year. Or when Lady Gaga arrived inside an alien egg on the red carpet in 2011.

And in 1990, Milly Vanilly won best new artist but was stripped of the award because, well, they didn't actually sing any of their songs.

But what the Grammys doesn't want to be remembered for are the tragic moments.

In 2009, Chris Brown physically assaulted his then-girlfriend, Rihanna, and they both missed the show.

And in 2012, Whitney Houston was found dead in her bathtub after attending a pre-Grammys party. A powerful voice taken before one of music's biggest nights.

(SINGING)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: You've been watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause.

"World Sport" is up next.

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(WORLD SPORT REPORT)

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[03:00:11] CHURCH: A death sentence for Aleppo.