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Trump Visits Survivors of ISIS-Inspired Attack; Trump Taps Three Generals for White House Team; Trump Picks Linda McMahon for SBA; Trump Picks Climate Change Skeptic to head EPA; Obama Hopes to Influence Trump; House Passes Spending Bill; Biden Blames Battle of Personalities for Clinton Loss; Kaine on Trump Picks; Scott Pruitt's Background. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 08, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Beijing. Thanks for joining us.

That's it for me. The news continues right now on CNN.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Wolf, thank you so much.

Hi, everyone, I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me on this Thursday. You're watching CNN.

For the very first time since he won that historic presidential election, Donald Trump is fulfilling one role as leader of the free world here. He's acting as consoler in chief today. Very shortly we will see President-elect Trump meeting with survivors of last month's attack in Columbus at Ohio State University. Law enforcement officials say the student who hurt 11 people was inspired by ISIS. So paying a visit in the wake of a tragedy was a duty President Obama had to do, as he pointed out, far too often. Mr. Trump will also meet with the police and the emergency crews who responded very quickly to that scene.

That event there in Ohio is just a piece of a very busy day here. This evening, the president-elect will be heading to Iowa for another rally on his thank you tour. Earlier today, at Trump Tower, he held multiple meetings with potential hires for his administration, including the former CEO of Ford, and this man. This is Admiral James Stavridis. He was actually in the running to become Hillary Clinton's vice president. Today he confirmed he is being considered for the job of Trump's secretary of state, adding to an already long list there. The admiral actually compared the two vetting processes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.): I think it's all about service and I think that it's very consistent across the partisan divide, if you will, on these kinds of national security issues. And that's pretty heartening, I think, for the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's begin the hour, though, with Sara Murray, who is there in Columbus, Ohio, looking ahead to the moment where the president- elect will be meeting with those survivors and members of law enforcement.

Can you tell us, what do you know as far as what Trump will be doing there?

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, this is going to be a different kind of stop, a different kind of setting for the incoming president-elect. Obviously most of the time we've seen him outside of Trump Tower, since he won we've seen him at these sort of raucous victory rallies, all part of his thank you tour across America. That's where we're going to see him later tonight.

But first it's going to be a more somber stop here in Ohio. He's expected to meet privately with some of the survivors of this attack from - at Ohio State University. He's expected to meet with the first responders. And we really haven't seen frequently the sort of comforter in chief side of Donald Trump. Even throughout his presidential campaign when horrific tragedies would happen, he would tend to say, I am going to be stronger as president. I am going to find these people. I am going to ensure, for instance, that a terrorist attack doesn't happen. And it was almost an afterthought when he would then send out his sorrow to victims in an event like this. So it will certainly be interesting to see what Donald Trump says, what he does, what - and how he acts, frankly, as a consoler in chief, not really a side of him that we're used to seeing. We're expecting him here shortly, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We'll look for it next hour. Sara Murray, thank you so much.

Let's have a broader conversation with CNN political commentator Mike Shields, who leads the Republican super PAC, the Congressional Leadership Fund. Also with us, CNN politics reporter Eugene Scott.

So, gentlemen, happy Thursday. Let's get rolling with what Sara was just talking about, Eugene, in Ohio State, in the fact that we really haven't seen this comforter or consoler in chief, you know, role. And we should point out, next hour I'm actually talking to one of the professors who was hit, who is choosing not to be part of this because he sees Trump being in Columbus - he calls it a PR stunt. Why do you think Mr. Trump is there?

EUGENE SCOTT, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Well, this is who many people in his campaign have told us he is behind closed doors all this time. We've seen him hold babies on the trail. We've seen him say he loves talking to President Obama. We've seen him just reach out to other communities. Even I recall after the Pulse massacre, really coming out front -

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE).

SCOTT: And saying that he wanted to look out for the LGBT community members, something that we don't hear a lot from our Republican presidential candidates. And so whether or not we'll see more of this, I think, remains to be seen. But I think many voters are going to have a hard time holding that intention with a lot of the harmful rhetoric he said as well.

BALDWIN: We'll look for that message. Words are important as he'll be in Columbus next hour.

But, let me move on, Mike, to you, and the movement that we have so far on the latest administration picks, when you look at health, education, EPA and housing and urban development, or HUD, and you look at the lineup. Mike, do you think this is the most conservative cabinet we've ever seen?

MIKE SHIELDS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It might be. And I'll tell you what, the also are as qualified. As you go back to the campaign, you had many people, the president of the United States, Hillary Clinton and others saying Donald Trump fit to be president, he's not qualified to be president. You see the decisions he's making in his cabinet.

[14:05:07] These are tremendously qualified people. You're seeing that the president-elect is willing to sort of check his ego and bring in even people that disagreed with him. It's a pretty diverse cabinet. There's women being added to the cabinet, minorities. It's certainly a strong cabinet from the military perspective. It's interesting you're talking about being the consoler in chief. One of the ways to console people is to show them strength. To show them that you mean business in keeping them safe. And I think that that's what's - it may be a different style for President-elect Trump, but that's what he advertised in the election was that he was going to be a strong leader. And if you look at the people he's appointing in those national security positions, they certainly convey strength and that he's pretty serious about changing our course and keeping us safe.

BALDWIN: Karen Tumulty, let me bring you in as another voice here, from "The Washington Post."

You know we've been hearing from Mike Shields, and if you want to throw the graphic up again, you know, Mike says this is a diverse cabinet. These are, you know, people who have the resumes, who have the stuff for the job. But, you know, one could all - in terms of being uber conservative, you know, is this essentially, you know, picked by the conservative think tank the Heritage Foundation and Mike Pence, Karen?

KAREN TUMULTY, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, I don't think these are people who necessarily come out of the sort of traditional conservative movement. Sort of the, you know, William F. Buckley roots. These are people for some pretty unconventional backgrounds. You look at somebody like Linda McMahon, you know, comes out of wrestling. Ben Carson is certainly not somebody you would consider a conventional background for HUD secretary. And also the - just sheer number of general, people who come from the military culture into the civilian government culture. I don't know that traditional ideological lines even begin to define what kind of team Donald Trump is trying to build here.

BALDWIN: And then what it says about how he plans to govern.

You mentioned - you know, it's - I think we're up at three generals, a potential admiral. But Linda McMahon, let me loop back to that point. She - the co-founder and former CEO of World Wrestling Entertainment, WWE. We have some video just because we do. You all know where I'm going, with - with, you know, her husband brawling with Trump. And then we also had Linda on the show recently. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, look at this! Look at Trump! Donald Trump!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hostile takeover of Donald Trump on Vince McMahon has happened at WrestleMania (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, look at this!

BALDWIN: You've known Mr. Trump for a little while. Think he's capable of being the president of this country?

LINDA MCMAHON, TRUMP'S PICK FOR SBA CHIEF: Oh, I definitely do. And I've - I've known Donald for over 20 years. And when I've been asked before, I said, look, let me tell you what I know about him personally. I said, he's loyal. I said he absolutely is a good businessman. He hires smart people around him. He - he is very patriotic. He's a good - he's a good man and very accomplished and I think he would make a very good president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: He'd make a good president and I'm sure she would approve of the picks. Of course, she's been tapped to lead the Small Business Administration.

Eugene, you know, to Karen's point, though, on the generals and the billionaires, you know, she was the fifth woman he's chosen. What do you think that says about how he plans to govern this country?

SCOTT: Well, I think what it communicates is that he plans to be very unconventional and that he plans to be pretty unorthodox in the people that he's selecting and the worlds in which he believes people can come from and still be qualified to be a top leader in the government. But that's not surprising. He comes from reality TV and it's going to the most powerful government position in the land. So I'm not surprise that he thinks someone who headed WWE can head SBA and a retired neurosurgeon can head HUD.

BALDWIN: Mike, what about his biggest critic of the EPA, you know, being selected as the potential EPA chief?

SHIELDS: Well, clearly he intends on rolling back some of the regulations that the EPA has been issuing, especially when it comes to the coal industry. And, look, that's again what he ran on. I mean this is as advertised. I think one of the things that President-elect Trump is signaling is

that he is unconventional. He ran as an unconventional candidate. He's bringing in people like Linda McMahon, who, by the way, when her company started had 13 employees and we all know what the WWE is, right, because it's very successful.

BALDWIN: Right.

SHIELDS: So she's an incredibly person. But it is unconventional and the EPA director is also going to be someone that, as advertised, is going to work on rolling back regulations that cost this country jobs. And the Obama administration has just been in a - in a - on a - you know, on a bender of issuing regulations that hurt jobs and those are the - those are the very issues that the people that switched in the Midwest from Trump - excuse me, from Obama to Trump, the Trump voters that gave him the election want him to name an EPA administrator that's going to roll back these regulations that are hurting their jobs. So it is unorthodox and it's also as advertised.

[14:10:05] BALDWIN: Yes, I mean, if I'm President Obama, I'm also wondering, well, my goodness, how much of my policies in my eight years will actually be rolled back. And then you add on to it the fact that we do know, thank you Dana Bash and your reporting, about some of the conversations being had between the president and the president- elect. Dana is being told that President Obama has been acting as quote/unquote the educator in chief, trying to change Trump's mind and to move his policies to, of course, protect, you know what I'm talking about, the Obama legacy.

But, Karen, while, you know, Mr. Trump has been very complimentary of President Obama, he said he likes him to Matt Lauer, receptive of his ideas, the question sort of everyone's asking is, who is it that President-elect Trump is listening to?

TUMULTY: Well, what I have heard in my own reporting is that President Obama has been trying in conversations, their initial one in particular, to sort of explain to Trump how some of these policies, for instance the Paris agreement -

BALDWIN: Right.

TUMULTY: Works on behalf of business. That businesses need certainty for their planning and that this provides it. You know he is - from what I understand, trying to make these arguments to the president- elect in - in sort of different terms beyond - that go beyond the sort of left/right partisan divide.

BALDWIN: Eugene, you have the final note on that and our reporting on how they're communicating?

SCOTT: Yes. I think one of the interesting things that Trump told Matt Lauer is that one of the appointments President Obama spoke very highly of. So I wonder if we could see more of that even going up to the top level.

BALDWIN: Still waiting to get the news on the secretary of state pick. We know that Manu Raju just talked to Senator Bob Corker. He says soon. We'll talk to Manu about that in just a second.

Eugene, thank you.

SCOTT: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And, Karen and Mike, thank you both as well.

Just into us here at CNN, exactly one month after the election, Vice President Joe Biden with some, you know, honest Joe, with some real, candid reflections about the result, why he says Hillary Clinton lost and looking into the future of politics. We have that for you.

Also, moments ago, Hillary Clinton's former running mate, Senator Tim Kaine, he's not holding back about his concerns with one of Donald Trump's key cabinet picks. We will talk to Manu Raju, our man on Capitol Hill, who caught up with him.

We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:18] BALDWIN: Welcome back.

We just got some news just into CNN from Capitol Hill. The fact that the U.S. House of Representatives has just passed this spending bill. And it's important for multiple reasons, including the fact that it includes a provision that could essentially help pave the way for Mr. Trump's selection as the next defense secretary.

Manu Raju, let me just go straight to you there on The Hill. Talk to me about what just happened.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, that's right, the House passing this bill essentially extending government funding until April 28th of next year. That means once the Senate acts, this becomes law, Donald Trump's - one of his first big decisions as how to fund the government and what programs to keep and what not to keep.

Now, you mentioned that waiver. Very significant because what it would do is that it would expedite the process for considering that waiver for General James Mattis to serve as a top civilian post for the Defense Department. He needs that waiver because of the law preventing people who have served in the military from not taking that top civilian post if they have retired within the last seven years. He did in 2013. But we're hearing Democrats in the Senate objecting to a separate provision in the spending bill over minors' health insurance programs, so that is still not yet resolved. So we'll try to see if they can finish by Friday's deadline, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. In the meantime, a special visitor at New York University this morning, Manu, where we heard from or, you know, students there heard from the outgoing vice president, Joe Biden. As always, this is a man who doesn't hold back, and he didn't today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This has been a very tough election. It's been ugly. It's been divisive. It's been course. It's been dispiriting. And was more a battle of personalities than it was ideas, in my view.

As the vice president of the United States, I've traveled over one million two hundred miles - or two hundred thousand miles traveling to meet with virtually every major head of state in the world. I've been doing this a long time. I know I've met every single one. I think every major head of state in the last 35 years, not because I'm important, it just happened to be the jobs I had at the moment. And I find myself embarrassed by the nature and the way in which this campaign was conducted. And, you know, so much for the shining city on the hill.

But the fact of it is, is that I know there's a sense in the country that maybe, though, that things are worse off than they really are. There's a sense that the country - that our institutions aren't working and maybe we can never get them to work. For a lot of folks it feels as if we're more divided than we've ever been - have been in our history. And that the election brought out the worst in the political system.

But, you know, I think this is a time to bring a little perspective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: It's been interesting, Manu, to hear from these different Democrats, prominent Democrats, in the wake of the Hillary Clinton loss. What did you make of his words?

RAJU: I mean Democrats are really still struggling to explain how they lost this race. I'm hearing a lot of different explanations from not communicating well enough with white working class voters, particularly in those rust belt states, Hillary Clinton not spending enough time in those areas, as well as finger pointing on James Comey and his decision to release that now infamous letter saying that he would look into Hillary Clinton's e-mails further just days before the election. So a lot of soul searching on Capitol Hill and Democrats and beyond to figure out really what went wrong in the last month, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Speaking of Dems, you talked to Hillary Clinton's running mate, Senator Tim Kaine. What did he have to say today?

RAJU: He was sharply critical of Donald Trump's choices, cabinet choices, as well as his national security advisor pick, Michael Flynn. Take a listen to what he had to say.

[14:20:07] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM KAINE (D), FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't mind having an EPA critic. That is not my concern. He's a climate science denier. And that causes me great concern because if there's any agency of the federal government that virtually every decision they make is a decision that's based on science.

RAJU: What about - you were on the Armed Services Committee.

KAINE: Yes.

RAJU: The general that they're putting in there, what about the idea of putting three generals in the cabinet? Does that give you pause?

KAINE: (INAUDIBLE) when General Flynn's trafficking in conspiracy stories that a fourth grader would find incredible suggests either that he's highly gullible or that he's so consumed with malice that he - that he loses his ability to judge what's fact and what's fiction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Wow.

RAJU: So some very, very strong words there, Brooke. Of course, him referring to the fake news stories that General Flynn had pushed on social media, saying that he's not qualified for the job. But the Senate does not vote on the national security advisor position. So I asked him, do you think that General Flynn should step aside? And he said he does not have the judgment for the job.

And one other thing, Tim Kaine has said that he would not run again in 2020. I said, well, why not? He said, because I really want to serve in the Senate for a very long time. So that's where his focus is right now, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Great interviews. Great gets. Love watching you run alongside members of Congress. Manu Raju, thank you so much.

RAJU: Thank, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, Donald Trump's selection to head the EPA. You know, depending on who you asked, you just heard from Tim Kaine calling him a climate science denier, raising some eyebrows from legal action he's taken against the agency itself, his conservative stance on climate change. More on what Democrats say will be an all-out nomination fight for climate change denier Scott Pruitt.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:26:21] BALDWIN: Donald Trump sending some mixed signals about his plans for the environment. We just learned the president-elect just sat down with Hollywood megastar Leonardo DiCaprio, a long-time environmental advocate about (INAUDIBLE) about climate change. The sit down coming on the very same day that Mr. Trump tapped a fierce critic of the EPA to run the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency.

I'm talking about Scott Pruitt, Oklahoma's attorney general. He is a climate change denier, a good friend of the fossil fuel industry and he has sued the EPA several times over. Democrats are promising a fight over this particular nomination.

So let's first talk it over with Rene Marsh. She is our government regulation correspondent.

I know you have been digging deeper into his background, Rene. Tell me what you've learned.

RENE MARSH, CNN GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've learned that Scott Pruitt, during his time as attorney general, Brooke, there have been at least 12 lawsuits that Oklahoma has filed challenging Environmental Protections while he was attorney general. That's according to the Environmental Defense Fund.

Now, when you look at his track record, he really has been at the forefront of attempting to dismantle the laws of the very agency that he will now run. He's launched legal battles against the Obama administration's Clear Power Plan, which essentially seeks to curb carbon emissions from power plants. He's also sued the EPA for trying to curb methane emissions from the oil and gas industry. Those are just a couple.

But the big picture here about what he's trying to accomplish really goes beyond the environment. This philosophy of fewer environmental regulations, it really does speak to President-elect Trump's larger goal of economic growth. The thinking is, get the regulations out of the way, which they see as a burden to businesses, but the critics are saying, many environmentalists are saying, that all comes at a cost. We're talking about potential health issues, as well as poor air and water quality, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK, Rene Marsh, thank you.

MARSH: Sure.

BALDWIN: I want to hear from both sides. And - in a bigger way. But, first, just Scott Pruitt's first statement. It was put out by the campaign after he was tapped to run the EPA. And this - this is how it reads. Quote, "the American people are tired of seeing billions of dollars drained from our economy due to unnecessary EPA regulations and I intend to run this agency in a way that fosters both responsible protection of the environment and freedom for American businesses."

So, as I mentioned, we always want to hear from both sides. I have with me Johnson Bridgewater, director of Oklahoma's Sierra Club, who opposed Pruitt as the EPA chief and former Arkansas Attorney General Dustin McDaniel, a Democrat who supports Trump's choice.

So, gentlemen, I welcome both of you. Thank you so much for joining me.

And, Dustin McDaniel, let me just begin with you. You know, you think this pick is a great idea. Tell me why.

DUSTIN MCDANIEL (D), FORMER ARKANSAS ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, first of all, I know Scott Pruitt. He's a good man and he's an honorable man. He and I have differing policy positions on a lot of things. I was a staunch supporter of Hillary Clinton, but I know that Scott Pruitt will restore a notion of rule of law to the EPA. And Democrats and Republicans around the country alike have been concerned over the last few years about how the EPA has pushed regulations without necessarily always having them rooted either in their legal authority or legal process or in sound science. So a lot of litigation between the states has had to unfold over the last several years. Scott is well aware of that. He's led some of it. I participated in some of it when I was still the Democratic attorney general of Arkansas.

[14:30:01] But I know that Scott will bring a lot of experience in finding real world solutions. We had years - years of water quality litigation between Arkansas and Oklahoma. And, frankly, --