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Trump's Controversial Pick to Head EPA; Trump Brings Carrier Fight to Union Boss on Twitter; Oakland Warehouse Not Inspected for 30 Years Despite Complaints; Trump Nominates Andrew Puzder as Labor Secretary; Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired December 08, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00] DUSTIN MCDANIEL, (D), FORERM ARKANSAS ATTORNEY GENERAL: But I know Scott will bring a lot of experience in finding real-world solutions. We have years, years of water quality litigation between Arkansas and Oklahoma and no one thought we could resolve that. I want went to Oklahoma City, met with Attorney General Pruitt right after he got elected and said let's chart a new path where we work to improve our environment, improve our economy, and do it together, out of court. And what we did was nothing short of historic. And I've seen him in action and I think he would take that same experience to the EPA.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, this is from a man who knows him and has clearly worked with him.

Johnson, I know the executive director of the Sierra Club, in the meantime, said having Scott Pruitt in charge of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is like putting an or arsonist in charge of fighting fires. How do you feel?

JOHNSON BRIDGEWARTER, DIRECTOR, OKLAHOMA SIERRA CLUB: So two things. Mr. Pruitt made it clear he doesn't think the actions of the EPA are justified. He doesn't believe they should be pursuing all they have been to try to reverse climate change.

Regarding climate change itself, it's been clear he doesn't see it as a threat. I want to be very clear that climate change is a threat. It is real. It is the greatest crisis facing not just the states and the United States but facing the world. And the idea of having somebody in charge of the EPA who doesn't see this as something that needs to be taken care of immediately and with all options, we see that as very troubling.

BALDWIN: Let me have Dustin respond to that point.

We read the "National Review" piece where Mr. Pruitt himself wrote, "Scientists continue to disagree about the degree and extent of global warming and its advanced connection to the actions of mankind."

He's a climate denier. Why is that a good idea to have him as EPA chief?

MCDANIEL: Well, first of all, I believe climate change is real, I believe it's man made, and I believe it's the greatest threat to humanity going forward. But we elected a president who doesn't see it that way, so whoever his appointments are going to be are going to reflect the ideology of the president-elect and the electorate that put him in there.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But do we know for a fact, if he feels that way, because we saw, of all people, Al Gore, meeting with Mr. Trump on Monday. He had this Leonardo DiCaprio meeting. We know Ivanka Trump has been on the record talking about how climate is a passion of hers. Yet, then he chooses someone like Mr. Pruitt. I think a lot of people are left confused.

MCDANIEL: I think a lot of those voices are going to be heard. I know Scott Pruitt as a man who will -- first of all, wants to make sure we have clean air and clean water. The president-elect in his statement said the core mission of the EPA is clean air and clean water.

What I can tell you is this is an agency that was created by Richard Nixon, and right now, has lost enormous support across the United States because businesses, individuals, farmers, and the people in my state don't believe the EPA is listening to anyone other than climate activists. So, whatever regulations they're going to impose, whatever steps they're going to take to make sure we have clean air and clean water, need to be done with a legitimacy, such that they gain the support of all Americans and not just those who would like to see us move without the support of Congress, because they believe it's the right thing to do. Scott will stick to his legislative mandate. And rules that are imposed will be imposed according to the process with everybody's voice included at the table.

BALDWIN: Johnson, you would be one of those environmental activists. You're listening to Dustin. What do you say?

BRIDGEWATER: I'd point out the Clean Power Plan, as one example, there are a great number of states that support that. This isn't a clear issue that everybody is opposed to what EPA is doing. There isn't a clear mandate. The popular vote shows Americans were willing to vote for ideas such as clean water and clean air.

And, again this is something that is not simply the state versus the federal government. This needs to be dealt with in all ways possible. And knowing the background and terms of the voices that Attorney General Pruitt tends to listen to, which is big energy, we have some serious concerns that we need somebody who will be paying attention to the science and who will be putting that at the top of their list rather than those of industry.

BALDWIN: Gentlemen, thank you so much, Johnson Bridgewater and Dustin McDonald, thank you.

MCDANIELD: Thank you.

[14:35:54] BALDWIN: Next, it's the president-elect versus the blue- collar union boss after Donald Trump takes the fight over Carrier to Twitter. So, is this the new normal for political showdowns? We'll talk to our media correspondent, Brian Stelter, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAWK)

BALDWIN: We have a transition-to-power alert. President-elect Donald Trump is appointing Andrew Puzder, CEO of the company that operates the fast-food outlets Hardees and Carl's Jr, as his labor secretary. Puzder is an outspoken critic of minimum wage increases and the worker protections enacted by the Obama administration. Much more on Puzder at the top of the hour.

President-elect Trump once again using his Twitter account to attack one of his critics over the deal he claimed as a mega-deal just last week, the Carrier job negotiation in Indianapolis.

Let me back up. This all started when a local union leader came on CNN last night to say Mr. Trump lied about how many jobs would be retained at the Carrier plant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[14:40:] CHUCK JONES, PRESIDENT UNITED STEEL WORKERS UNION 1999: Mr. Trump got involved, what the actual number of jobs saved is 730 bargaining unit jobs, union member workers and another 70 office supervisory clerical workers from management. And what they're doing, they're counting in 350-some-odd more that were never leaving this country at all.

We had a lot of members, when the word was coming out of 1100, that they thought they would have a job, then they find out the next day -- next Friday, that most likely they weren't. 550 were still going to lose their jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Moments after Chuck Jones made his case on CNN, President- elect Trump tweeted," "Chuck Jones, who is president of the United Steel Workers 1999, has done a terrible job representing workers. No wonder companies flee the country." And hour later, he tweeted, "If United 1999 was any good, they would have kept those jobs in Indiana. Spend more time working, less talking. Reduce dues."

Let's talk to Brian Stelter with much more on this.

By the way, having read about Chuck Jones today, he's getting death threats, apparently, because of this Twitter back and forth, because he has a flip phone. But we know the president-elect retweeted a 16- year-old, he's going after private citizens. Is this the new normal?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, RELIABLE SOURCES: This is the TV Twitter/TV Twitter cycle, Brooke. It's what Twitter and Facebook want everybody to do. Well, the president-elect is somebody who would do that. President Obama was criticized for not watching cable news enough now we're seeing an overcorrection, Donald Trump tweeting cable news like it's an intelligence briefing. He gets information from other sources as well. But I have to hope he's getting useful intelligence from the TV he watches. This Chuck Jones incident is probably the most vivid example yet

because of how quickly Trump responded on CNN. He may say "SNL" is unwatchable, he may say he hates CNN, but clearly he's tuned in all the time.

BALDWIN: He's watching us. He's watching "SNL" and a lot of cable TV. But what about the times when he tweets false information about the false claim that millions of people who voted for Hillary Clinton? How should we, as the media, evolve and adapt to cover this?

STELTER: My show is called "Reliable Sources." Everybody is a source so we have to figure out what's reliable. Whether we figure out whether it's a company or Facebook or Twitter, sometimes the information will be false or misleading, so our job becomes more and more and more to check, to verify, to sort it out. It's an evolution of the job of journalists.

What we see from Trump on Twitter is the impulsiveness, the combativeness that his fans loved during the campaign. I'm surprised nobody one around him has suggested or stopped him from tweeting impulsively, but it was clear that we were going to get that before Election Day. So, it's not as if you can say Donald Trump has changed his use of the medium going forward.

BALDWIN: Ultimately, he's the boss. If the boss wants to tweet, the boss gets to tweet. Do you see that changing after January 20th?

STELTER: Not at all. Let's see if he chooses to watch less cable news, less television. That'll be curious to see once he's experienced the demands of the oval office.

I thought it was noteworthy that last night, Robert Reich, a very loud Trump critic, used CNN to communicate to Trump. He looked into the camera and said to Trump, "Stop this." We saw Michael Moore did that on a late-night show. We're seeing people communicate with the president-elect with this medium, even though his own aides. It does seem Kellyanne Conway in her television appearances is trying to get a message to get across to her boss. So, that will be a fascinating subplot of the next months and probably years to see how people try to reach the president through this box we're watching right now.

BALDWIN: We are in a new era. Our jobs have never been more important.

STELTER: That's true.

BALDWIN: Brian Stelter, thank you.

STELTER: Thanks.

[14:44:43] BALDWIN: Coming up next, any moment now, President-elect Trump set to meet with first responders and survivors of the Ohio State University ISIS-inspired attack. We have will take you there live.

Also, ahead, we are learning that the inside of that converted warehouse in Oakland, California, had not been inspected in 30 years, despite complaint after complaint after complaint. Details on that straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: I want to take you to Oakland, California, where that deadly warehouse fire claimed the lives of 36 people. We're learning the inside of that converted warehouse had not been inspected in 30 years. No inspections, in spite of numerous documented complaints. And upon hearing this revelation in Oakland, a city councilman tells CNN he blames this failure on a lack of communication and on widespread budget cuts that resulted in layoffs for firefighters, fire marshals, building inspectors and police officers.

Robert Rowe has joined me. He is a fire inspector and the owner and CEO of Pyrocops, Inc.

Robert, thank you for being here.

30 years. Is that as stunning to you as it people watching or is that more common than we realize?

[14:50:01] ROBERT ROWE, FIRE INSPECTOR & OWNER & CEO, PYROCOPS, INC: It's quite a stretch on years but there were a lot of buildings that go uninspected for some time. Based on the fact construction doesn't occur within buildings and permits aren't pulled for certain changes of the occupancy. So, some cases may not be inspected by the building department for some time.

BALDWIN: Tell me about what an inspection entails and how an inspection could or couldn't have prevented this?

ROWE: The first thing is there was a change of use in occupancy in this building. It was intended to be a warehouse and over the years it was changed into residential occupancy, which would have required sprinkler and alarm systems. And then on top of that, there was a use of an assembly use that occurred on the night of the fire. So, as you can see, there's been changes made to the building outside of the eye of the local building department, which turned into the perfect storm, and here we have now a large loss of life.

BALDWIN: In the early part of the week, it was clear people in this community knew people were living there. They knew people were performing. They were using it as a mixed-use place. What do you make of him telling us it was budget cuts and firefighters were laid off? Is that -- does that sound right to you?

ROWE: Well, when you look at the size of the city of Oakland and the comparison to the number of people brought on to inspect these building, it's a wide gap. It's hard to cover every building. Not to take away from the fact the buildings must be inspected, but sometimes it can be very overwhelming. There are a lot of buildings in bad condition out there. So, I can see both sides of the story. But I believe the owner's responsibility to ensure the buildings are safe is a huge factor as well as those that run the building. The building officials and fire officials can't babysit. BALDWIN: So with 36 lives lost, what do you think is the biggest

lesson learned from this?

ROWE: Well, I think we can all walk away with the simple fact that we need to revisit our fire prevention divisions, our building divisions. We need to reach out to building owners and property owners across the country and we need to come together and help them understand what the requirements are to have a safe structure and safe building.

BALDWIN: Robert Rowe, thank you.

ROWE: You're welcome. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Soon, President-elect Donald Trump set to meet with first responders from that Ohio State University attack. We know that the Trump plane, there it goes, up and away from New York City, LaGuardia Airport. That happened just moments ago. We'll take you live to Columbus momentarily.

Also, back to the breaking news, another key Trump cabinet pick, secretary of labor. We'll talk to Sara Murray, who just broke the news next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:57:38] BALDWIN: Hi, there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me on CNN.

We have breaking news for you at the top of this hour. President- elect Donald Trump has announced another choice for his economic team. He's nominating a man by the name of Andrew Puzder to be secretary of labor. Puzder is the CEO of the company that owns Carl's Jr fast-food chain.

This news coming into CNN as we wait to see the president-elect and his team arrive on Ohio to meet with survivors and first responders of last month's ISIS-inspiring stabbing attack. Law enforcement officials say the student who hurt those 11 individuals was, in fact, inspired by ISIS.

CNN politics reporter, Sara Murray, is there ahead of that visit on campus at Ohio State University.

Sara, before we get to that, tell me about the news that just broke about Mr. Puzder.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: That's right. This is Donald Trump's pick to be labor secretary. You can bet he'll draw the ire of Democrats. This is a guy who's fallen in lockstep with Donald Trump in terms of wanting to scale back regulations. He also made no secret of the fact he would be happy to serve in Donald Trump's cabinet before he was chosen for the slot. But he's also been very critical of efforts to raise the minimum wage. So, that's the kind of thing that Democrats are certain to grill him on when he's on the Hill. And when he was asked about this before in interviews he did say he knows that states have the opportunity to raise the minimum wage. He knows they have the right to do so. But if you're in a cabinet level position, you can dissuade them from doing that and make the argument for why, if you're Andy Puzder, you believe it would be bad for American employers, bad for workers and bad for the economy. So certainly, a number of positions Democrats won't be thrilled to hear but Republicans will be happy to see this pick in some way ways. It's just another thing Donald Trump said he would do as a candidate, which is look to people outside of the traditional government appointees to fill some of these cabinet spots -- Brooke?

BALDWIN: We'll go back with that to my panel in just a moment, but since you are in Columbus, tell me what we know about the president- elect's meeting with these survivors, members of law enforcement.

MURRAY: Well, that's right. This will be a little bit of a different stop from Donald Trump's usual agenda. We know, later on today, in Iowa, for instance, he'll be making another stop on his victory tour. And that, of course, is going to be a big raucous rally. This is going to be a very different kind of setting. He'll be meeting privately with first responders from this attack at Ohio State. He's also going to be meeting with some of the victims. And it's going to be sort of --