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Trump's Business Conflicts; Wall Street Rallies; Trump Meets with Ohio Attack Survivors. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 08, 2016 - 3:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

SARA MURRAY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And that, of course, is going to be a big, raucous rally.

This is going to be a very different kind of setting. He is going to be meeting privately with first-responders from this attack on -- at Ohio State. He's also going to be meeting with some of the victims. And it is going to be sort of an opportunity for us and for the American public to see what Donald Trump is like playing comforter in chief.

In the past, when horrific attacks like this have happened, he has been quick to go on Twitter or go on television and talk about the attacker, essentially to say he's going to be tougher, for instance, on immigrants or tougher on ISIS. This is going to be a different setting.

This is going to be him meeting up close with these victims. And it will be sort of a chance, I think, for the American public to maybe see a different side of the man that they have just decided to elect as president. So we will see how he handles this, Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Sara Murray, thank you very much.

All of the 11 people injured in that attack at Ohio State are expected to fully recover.

We bring one of them in now. He's William Clark, engineering professor at Ohio State University.

Professor, thank you so much for joining me. How are you doing?

WILLIAM CLARK, PROFESSOR, OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY: Oh, improving slowly day by day, but still very stiff, very sore and not moving at full speed, but we're getting better. So...

BALDWIN: I'm glad to hear that.

I know that, of course, Mr. Trump is meeting with a number of people who were impacted directly by that horrendous attack recently on campus. You said no, that you declined this invitation to meet with president-elect Trump. Tell me why.

CLARK: Two reasons. First of all, my from my healing standpoint, I didn't feel it was

particular a necessary step for me. I'm a little older than most of the other victims, and they had a much more traumatic experience being chased by a guy with a knife than I did. That was one reason.

And the other reason too is that I was frankly a little put off by Mr. Trump's initial reaction to the attack, where he got on Twitter and quickly blamed the immigrant and immigration policies for allowing this to happen.

I have been a professor for 35 years. And I know these issues. When students do these kinds of things, they're often usually a lot more complex than that, so for those reasons.

BALDWIN: I understand. I understand. If we give him, as president- elect, the benefit of the doubt that he truly wants to appear there to say hello to members of your university community, what would you like to hear him say?

CLARK: You know, I would like him to embrace a message that a vital component of all our universities is their multidisciplinary, multinational, multi-everything character.

And I would like to hear him open up and embrace that, rather than start singling out specific minority groups and essentially addressing them and saying that we can exclude them from this country and our society.

I don't think that's the way America has been built and I don't think that's the way forward for this country.

BALDWIN: OK.

Professor Clark, thank you for the time. I appreciate it. My best to you in your recovery.

With that, let's get some analysis with CNN political analyst Kirsten Powers. She's a columnist for "USA Today." Zeke Miller is with us, political reporter for "TIME" magazine, and CNN politics editor Juana Summers.

Juana, just first to you quickly, just listening to the professor and understanding multiple reasons why he declined the invitation to meet with Mr. Trump there at Ohio State, but we're also seeing Mr. Trump in a very different role as comforter in chief. What do you make of his visit to Ohio?

JUANA SUMMERS, CNN POLITICS EDITOR: Brooke, this is really fascinating.

I think this is going to tell us a lot about just how effective Donald Trump can be at healing America after an election that's really laid bare a lot of political and personal rifts for people. Donald Trump, as we have seen the president-elect, both on the campaign trail and now in the days following the election, he's very boisterous. He punches back. He is really good on when he's in an aggressive role, but we haven't really seen him be -- see a softer side of him and that's a really important role for a president to play. So I think that this visit will teach us a lot about what that presidency can look like and whether or not he can truly bring Americans together, as he's suggested and said so far that he would like to.

BALDWIN: We know his plane is in the air and en route to Columbus. We will be listening very closely.

But let me move, Kirsten, to you, and the news we have just gotten on Andrew Puzder, the pick for Trump secretary of labor. He had written -- we pulled this piece from when he wrote this op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal" in 2015, where he wrote, "With some 11 million people living in the U.S. illegally, every candidate should support a path to legal status short of citizenship for illegal immigrants willing to accept responsibility for their actions and take the consequences."

So there he is on immigration. We know he's been critical of minimum wage increases. What does this tell you about the direction that the president-elect wants to go?

[15:05:00]

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN COMMENTATOR: Well, I don't -- I think it's hard to know, because what we have seen what Donald Trump is that he willing to disagree with some of his picks on certain issues. Right?

He's willing to disagree , seemingly maybe even have changed his mind about water-boarding based on one conversation with General Mattis. But ultimately everything flows down from the White House. It will all be directed by what President Trump decides he wants the policy to be.

So if he has people in who agree with him or disagree with him, it's almost beside the point, because he is going to ultimately be directing them what to do. And so I think when we're trying to look at some of these people and trying to figure out what does this mean, what does he think, I don't know that it's actually telling us that much, because he is really surrounding himself mostly with pretty conservative people, right, who are probably more conservative than he is.

BALDWIN: Thank you for my segue, because, Zeke Miller, to you.

When you look at who he would like to appoint at Health, Education, EPA and HUD, it looks extremely conservative, even though he may appear perhaps more progressive now that he's been elected and meets with, let's say, an Al Gore on climate change. He picks Mr. Pruitt. So how do we make sense of this?

ZEKE MILLER, "TIME": You know, I think the phrase we use a lot around Washington is that personnel is policy.

With Donald Trump, that might not be true. We're probably dealing with something more along the lines of personnel is performance. We hear a lot from Donald Trump about how he's looking for people who have the right look for secretary of state. That's one of the reasons why Mitt Romney had a far better sort of -- has performed so far much better in the audition for the role of secretary of state than a lot of other candidates or anyone really expected. He looks the part.

That's what Donald Trump is looking for. So when he's casting his Cabinet, which is kind of the way of how he thinks about it, he's both trying to keep his conservative base, the people who got him to the White House, trying to keep them happy with picks that they will like. So on really some of the issues areas which he doesn't very feel strongly about, he's going to give them a visible head that will sort of mollify that base.

And then the policy of course will stem from what he -- from the White House what he wants to do. We still don't really have a clear understanding of what the White House policy team will look like and that may be -- it will likely be far more important to determine the ultimate outcome than who is running the EPA or who is running HUD.

BALDWIN: We have to wonder if you're the White House, you're thinking, my goodness, how much of Obama's policies from the last eight years will be rolled back just based upon these really conservative picks?

That said, we have reporting which is also fascinating, just this back-and-forth between the president and president-elect, Juana, from Dana Bash, that President Obama has been acting -- quote, unquote -- "as educator in chief," trying to change Trump's mind on some of his policies and of course to protect his own legacy.

Tell me more about their back and forth.

SUMMERS: I think if you're a person who is concern about what president-elect Trump's presidency will actually look like and you hear the kind of back and forth that Dana Bash has described where he's even advising him on how to pick these Cabinet picks, I think you might feel a bit of reassurance.

There aren't that many living presidents, very people who have actually had this expansive and I'm assuming exhaustive job of being president. And the idea that president-elect Trump is turning to President Obama, two men who haven't had anything really kind to say about each other or charitable to say about each other during the course of the campaign, to inform this process and this deliberation I think is really telling and perhaps gives us some of the best insight we have seen yet as to how Trump is thinking about and constructing and putting together his White House and his administration.

BALDWIN: But, Kirsten, are you really feeling better?

POWERS: No.

BALDWIN: Are you really feeling better when you look at some of these picks?

POWERS: Well, I was just going to say, so he's talking to people. And I think that this is -- Donald Trump is actually -- anyone who has interviewed him can tell you he's a very gracious, charming, engaging person.

BALDWIN: Charming.

POWERS: He listens to you and often in my experience actually wants to convince you to see things his way. So who even knows what he's up to in these conversations?

If you look at the fact he met with Al Gore and then who he chose to run the EPA, to me, that suggests that either he's not listening or it will take many, many more conversations, right, to change his mind. I should also say I don't think it's helpful for the White House to be saying that Obama is being the educator in chief, because that could be something that ultimately could alienate Trump if he feels that he's being sort of talked down, right?

I think the idea of them being sort of equals and talking to each other is probably a better paradigm for Trump. And I could see him pulling back and saying whoa, whoa, whoa, I don't need to be educated, right, even though to a certain extent he does. But I don't think he necessarily sees himself that way.

BALDWIN: OK. So one big TBD is who he selects as secretary of state. And we know one of those potential picks is General Petraeus.

And so on that, I just want to point out Paula Broadwell has actually spoken. She was on CBS today, Paula Broadwell, the former military intelligence officer and author who had an affair with the general while he was writing his biography.

So she did CBS this morning, and this is what she said when she found out General Petraeus is being considered for this job.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAULA BROADWELL, AUTHOR, "ALL IN: THE EDUCATION OF GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS": As I woke up to the news, and it was a bit of a shocker, that he was being considered for a Cabinet position, and I was both shocked that I'm still in this tenuous position, and yet happy because I think he should be able to go on with his life.

[15:10:12]

He's earned it. And so should his family. But then it begged the question of, why shouldn't I be able to go on?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So I just thought that was fascinating and back to you Just as a woman listening to what she points out is, hang on a second, double standard much?

POWERS: Well, there's very much a double standard. And there was a double standard when the news first broke. He actually has pretty quickly seamlessly moved back into being a very

respected member of society, and she was sort of ostracized, when, of course, both people were involved in this. So I think she's right. I think if there's going to be so much grace for him moving forward, then there should be the same kind of grace for her, too.

BALDWIN: Zeke, quickly, just on the secretary of state pick, we know Manu Raju caught up with Senator Corker on the Hill who is also being considered for the same post. He says very soon. Do you know any more as far as when that announcement will be made public?

MILLER: The most I have been hearing is some time next week, but people very close to Donald Trump have been telling me for days that it really can go in any direction, there's really no certainty.

All the other Cabinet picks are clear favorites for those posts, for secretary of state. It's really a grab bag.

BALDWIN: OK. The mystery continues on that one.

Kirsten, Zeke, Juana, thank you all very much.

Coming up next, a new report suggests president-elect Trump will keep a stake in his business after taking office and his daughter Ivanka is definitely considering a move to Washington. We will discuss potential conflicts of interest there and what "The New York Times" has today.

Also a judge denies a motion for a mistrial in the case of the shooter, the man who murdered those nine people in that Charleston church who wants to represent himself. Details on what's happening inside the courtroom today.

And the U.S. House of Representatives just voted to pave the way for General James Mattis to become the next defense secretary, but there are hurdles. We will take you live to Capitol Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:03]

BALDWIN: Exactly one week from today, president-elect Donald Trump will be holding his first news conference since winning the election, alongside his children. Mr. Trump is set to announce the future of his business empire.

And now new reporting indicates exactly how Trump plans to extract himself from his corporate endeavors and how far he will actually go. A source tells CNN that the president-elect's two adult sons will take leadership positions within the Trump Organization and that Trump's daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner will have roles in Washington.

Here with me now to talk about this, "New York Times" investigative reporter Jo Becker.

Jo, read your piece first thing this morning, so thank you so much for swinging by.

JO BECKER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: It's important what you were writing about. And you take it a step further, suggesting that Trump may actually keep a stake in his company.

BECKER: Yes, our sources tell us that this is all still a process in the making, but at the moment that what Trump is eying is keeping his ownership stake of his business, turning over the day-to-day operations, however, to his sons and creating some sort of ill-defined so far legal structure that would separate him from the running of that business, even though it's his sons that are doing the running.

BALDWIN: Which we hope will be explained on December 15 when he holds the news conference.

A source told us he could install an additional person in the leadership structure of the Trump businesses to insulate his children. Are you hearing any of that?

BECKER: What we're hearing is, he's trying to create some sort of -- quote -- "structure."

Now, maybe that's what they're looking at the moment. But think about the difficulties of this. This is a global business empire. We have never -- this is totally uncharted territory, by the way, and we have never had a president this wealthy with this amount of foreign...

BALDWIN: With children.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKER: ... holdings and their portfolios, exactly.

And just think about the complications. Let's say you need to roll a loan on one of the Trump properties and a state bank extends the term of that loan or restructures that loan in a way that's beneficial. Is that a bribe? Is that trying to curry favor?

The fact that children are going to remain in an operational day-to- day role opens up all of these questions. Now, legally, there's nothing to prevent him from doing this, but typically presidents have taken their assets and put them in blind trusts or liquefied them. So the fact that Mr. Trump is keeping an ownership stake and his children are keeping -- two of his three children are keeping a role in terms of running the company, it's hard to imagine how he insulates himself totally from that. He knows what the holdings are.

BALDWIN: So, I'm listening to you and I'm thinking about the two adult boys, but then what about Ivanka Trump? Because isn't it pretty much a done deal that she and Jared will be moving to Washington, D.C.?

BECKER: It looks that way and it looks very much like -- our sources tell us that Jared Kushner, her husband, is preparing to take on a formal role in the White House.

They have hired outside counsel to try to figure out how to insulate him, because, of course, he has his own financial -- extensive financial holdings.

BALDWIN: What about Ivanka, though? Because we had talked about Ivanka Trump and how she sat in on the Shinzo Abe, the Japanese prime minister meeting, she was on the phone with the Argentine president, and blurred lines, potentially. What will she do? I mean, I know there are nepotism rules in the White House.

BECKER: Well, actually, it turns out, there isn't. Or this is arguable.

The reason that Jared Kushner can take a formal role, the lawyers that are looking at this believe, is because the nepotism rules apply to federal agencies. And their position is, the White House is not an agency, so the nepotism rule does not apply.

Jared Kushner has separate set of issues in terms of how does he make sure that he's not acting in his own financial interest as an adviser to the president? Because those rules, in fact, do apply in this case. He has to comply with ethics rules and there will have been to disclosure and what his assets are. And he will have to recuse himself from decisions that affect his financial holdings.

[15:20:10]

The president, however, does not. Those rules don't apply to the president. And the president-elect has said he is going to keep his financial stake in his empire. So, it raises all sorts of questions.

BALDWIN: You're raising all kinds of questions. And I'm sitting here thinking head to next week, when he gives this news conference and hopefully clarifies all of this and hopefully answers questions as well from we, the media.

What do you think is the number one most unanswered question for the president-elect?

BECKER: What is the legal structure going to be that insulates him? Another question is, are the children, the two boys that are going to be running, taking part in the day-to-day operations of this company, are they going to just run the company as it exists now? Or are they going to go out and try to do more deals?

Because if they're going out and doing more deals and trying to open hotels in, say, parts of the world where the United States has interests, that's a different kettle of fish. And who is going to finance those deals?

Even setting aside all of that, if you think about right now president-elect Trump said he's going to keep his financial stake in his empire. His empire has debt. He is -- they have debt to foreign banks and debt that we may not even know about because he hasn't fully disclosed his financial picture to or disclosed his IRS returns. But he also as president is going to be regulating the same banks that

may hold his debt.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You bring up all kinds of questions. They're excellent questions. I'm glad you're an investigative reporter, because you're going to be busy. And, listen, we're just in uncharted territory. You said it best.

Jo Becker, thank you so much with "The New York Times." Come back.

BECKER: Thanks so much.

BALDWIN: I appreciate it.

We are about, speaking of Mr. Trump and Wall Street, have you seen the numbers today? Look at that, 19,612 here, 40 minutes away from the closing bell, stocks up again, record-setting. This is following a trend where we have seen the Dow jumping more than 1,000 points since this presidential election, since Trump's win.

We will look into what some are calling a Trump bull market. Here's what I want to know: How long does it last? We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:26:36]

BALDWIN: After Democrats threatened to block the confirmation of president-elect Donald Trump's pick for defense secretary, congressional Republicans are taking matters into their own hands.

General James Mattis, who retired from the military just three years ago, actually needs a special waiver from Congress to serve as the top civilian in the Pentagon. The law says that any nominee for secretary of defense must be removed at least seven years from military service. The goal is to better prioritize civilian needs.

Let's go to Manu Raju, who is live on Capitol Hill for us, with regards to this whole bill that was being voted upon. Is the waiver closer to approval?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It is, Brooke, one step closer. The Senate still needs to act.

Now, what that bill would do is give expedited consideration in the United States Senate next year for that waiver. The waiver itself still needs to become law, but what the actual bill that is being passed today includes language that would actually make it quicker to actually consider that waiver next year.

That's because in the United States Senate, the Democrats, the opposition party could drag it out if they wanted to. Next year, when they consider that waiver for General James Mattis, it will still require 60 votes in order to be enacted. That means Democrats will have to join hands with Republicans in order for Donald Trump to get his nominee through on that specifically because of that waiver issue.

Now, what was included -- the provision that was included today was wrapped up in a larger spending bill to keep the government open up until late April. That's passed the House, but it's being stalled right now in the Senate by a number of Democrats who are not happy with the separate provision dealing with coal miners and their health provisions.

They want more for coal miners' health insurance. So, even though it may look done now, they're running into roadblocks on Capitol Hill. It just shows that nothing is ever easy in Congress -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Speaking of roadblocks, talk to me about what Senator Tim Kaine had to say about another general that Mr. Trump has chosen for a Cabinet job.

RAJU: Yes, that's right. Michael Flynn, the national security adviser, Donald Trump's choice for that position who has pushed some fake news stories about Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama through the course of the campaign, I asked Tim Kaine about some of Donald Trump's picks and he went after Michael Flynn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM KAINE (D), VIRGINIA: General Flynn's trafficking in conspiracy stories that a fourth-grader would find incredible suggest either that he's highly gullible or that he's so consumed with malice that he loses his ability to judge what's fact and what is fiction.

Having a national security adviser who has demonstrated either such gullibility or such malice in charge of offering advice to the president on the critical national security issues of the day, I think, is highly, highly troubling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, Flynn's position is not going to be considered by the Senate. This is something that the White House, the president could just appoint.

So I asked Tim Kaine, do you think that Flynn should step aside? And he said that he lacks the proper judgment for that position -- so, Hillary Clinton's running mate attacking Donald Trump and his selection at this moment.

And just in a few moments, Brooke, Hillary Clinton will be here on Capitol Hill making some remarks about Harry Reid on his final days here in office, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We will listen for that. Manu, thank you so much for now.

Meantime, Wall Street continues to rally a full month after Donald Trump was elected the next president of the United States. There appears to be no end to the post-election bull market we're seeing.