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Obama Warns Against Using Fear to Fight Terror; NSA Pick Claims Signs on U.S. Border are in Arabic; Remembering John Glenn. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 09, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: What exactly does "extreme vetting" mean?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: With six weeks until he's sworn in as the next commander in chief, Donald Trump is once again vowing to fight terror, in part by cracking down on immigration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: One of my first executive orders will be to ask the Department of Labor to investigate all of these abuses that undermine jobs and wages for the American worker. To protect our country from terrorism and extremism we will suspend immigration from regions where it cannot be safely processed or vetted. You know I've used the expression "extreme vetting." Extreme - oh, it's going to be extreme.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: And while the specifics of Trump's plans have not been fully unveiled, President Obama offered a warning earlier this week about the dangers of using fear in the war on terror.

[09:35:05] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The whole objective of these terrorists is to scare us into changing the nature of who we are and our democracy. And the fact is, people and nations do not make good decisions when they are driven by fear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Joining me now to talk about this is Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois. He's also a former Air Force pilot who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Welcome, sir.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R), ILLINOIS: Thanks. Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being on. So is fear at the root of Mr. Trump's policy positions?

KINZINGER: You know, I think there is - look, he's - he's really good. What we saw over the campaign and I think, frankly, even what we're seeing since. He's actually good at communicating with the American people in a way that, you know, no other candidate really has. And - and so, you know, I think to an extent, he's talking about reality. He's talking about the fact that, you know, there is a big problem with ISIS and Daesh around the world. You know, al Qaeda and Boko Haram, all these different terror groups. But I think we do have to be careful to walk the line between using fear as a weapon to get something done or for politics, versus, however, though, which I would actually say President Obama's leaned a little too heavily on, which is sweeping the problem under the rug and not addressing it. So somewhere in the middle is where we need to come down, and that will be the president-elect's decision on how he wants to talk about it.

COSTELLO: Somewhere in the - OK, so here's why I asked you that question because this is what Mr. Trump's national security adviser, General Michael Flynn, said in August. In an interview on Breitbart he said this about people fleeing Mexico.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MICHAEL FLYNN (voice-over): And I know from my - my friends in the border patrol, in the CBP, that they - they - there are - there are countries, so there's radical Islamist countries, state-sponsored, that are cutting deals with Mexican drug cartels for some of what they call the lanes of entry into our country. And I have seen - I have personally seen the photos of the - of the signage - OK, the signage along those paths that are in Arabic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So border patrol agents told CNN they were not aware of the signs in Arabic that General Flynn referenced. Do you believe there are signs in Arabic in Mexico pointing the way to the United States?

KINZINGER: I haven't seen them either. I don't think it's far-fetched to think that, you know, transnational terrorist groups would actually be cutting deals with cartels to get into the United States. At the same time, I think, you know, I haven't seen the signs in Arabic, if that's what we're talking about.

You know, I think the tendency of General Flynn kind of in the past has been to say things that are kind of broad, that are going to get headlines, that are going to make it on the Internet and get retweeted. And, unfortunately, now, in his position as NSA, national security adviser, he has to be held to a much higher level of standard on the truth. And I think, you know, sometimes when you tell a story, it can go from, I heard about signs in Arabic, to, I actually saw the signs in Arabic, when maybe that's not the case. So I don't want to accuse him of not seeing them. I'll just tell you, I'm unaware of having seen them personally.

COSTELLO: So should he go back and rescind what he said in the past, because once you say something and it's out there, frankly, it's out there.

KINZINGER: Yes, I mean, if - you know, frankly, if you had to go through all candidates or anybody that ever served in government and they have to go back and truth check all their statements, it would be a very long week, indeed. So I think to an extent, you know, things like that, I think, should be addressed. But, you know, you can't expect, I think, for him to go back over the last couple of years and say, hey, here's every instance when maybe I didn't quite see signs or something else.

But, from here on out - the bigger point is this. From here out, the national security adviser has to be held to a high level of truth and rightness because, frankly, he's got the ear of the president on very important matters like this.

COSTELLO: So are you comfortable with General Flynn as the national security adviser then?

KINZINGER: So I'm very comfortable with everybody that's been in Trump's cabinet so far. Where I'm hesitant is with General Flynn. Now, I think he's very good on the issues of defeating terror and recognizing the problems that we're facing around the world when it comes to terrorism. Where I have concern is, you know, I've seen an affection for Vladimir Putin and Russian from - through General Flynn, I think, from what I understand, and so that stuff's very concerning when you talk about the next administration. But the good news is, there are very good people being put around Donald Trump that can counter that influence in those areas and that's where secretary of state will be very important.

COSTELLO: When Donald Trump says "extreme" - I can't say it like he does, but when he says that's "extreme," what does he mean?

KINZINGER: I don't - I don't know. I think - again, this is part of, he's good at communicating, even though, you know, we didn't recognize at all - you know, all really over the last year, but he's very good at communicating with people. And I think he's making the point that we can't have people come here - which I agree with - that we don't know necessarily where they come from and we don't know their intentions.

Now, that doesn't mean we put up the walls and not let anybody in the United States. I think we need real immigration reform. But at the same time, I don't think we can be letting people in where we don't know their intentions or anything like that. It's difficult.

[09:40:05] COSTELLO: Do we do that now?

KINZINGER: No, not to an extent. I mean we're actually one of the most generous refugee resettling nations in the world. And not just talking about Muslim areas. We're talking about, you know, poor areas in eastern Europe, Asia and everything else. And we do pretty intense - pretty intense background checks on people. And I think, you know, to the extent that Donald Trump wants to make that safer but more efficient, maybe get it done a little faster, that's great. But I think people need to understand that their government does this now. And, you know, as a member of Congress, we deal all the time with people that have been rejected, you know, family members of people here, and, you know, we find out why.

COSTELLO: So Donald Trump did mention in that speech in Iowa that he wanted to suspend immigration from, you know, from dangerous countries. So would Congress go along with something like that?

KINZINGER: I think it depends on how it's developed. I think just - you know, I was obviously very critical of when he talked about a Muslim ban. And then that has been changed into this idea of extreme vetting. You know, look, we all would agree, and I've said very, very honestly and openly, if we can't research where somebody's coming from, if we can't research their intention - and this is the problem with Syria because you have a centralized government that's basically been torn up, which means all records and personnel information is difficult to get. I think if we don't know, then, you know, we have to look out for the interest and the safety of the United States first. But that doesn't mean we become an isolationist country by any means. We're the most generous in the world.

COSTELLO: Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois, thanks so much for being with me this morning.

Special forces - special forces soldiers came tantalizingly close to capturing or killing the head of ISIS last year, but they missed their chance when classified information was leaked to the media, that's according to a senior U.S. military official. Abu Bakr al Baghdadi was reported in Raqqa, Syria, in May of last year. Officials learned that after interrogating two other ISIS operatives. But when some of that information was leaked, they lost their chance to nab him. That's according to that official.

South Korea has a new acting president this morning. The prime minister has taken over after lawmakers voted to impeach the current president. The vote to impeach passed by a resounding 234 votes to 56. Thousands of South Koreans took to the streets to celebrate after her ouster. She was so unpopular with South Koreans, her approval rating was at 5 percent. And that's actually up a point from her previous showing at 4 percent.

I'll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW ADAMCZYK, BALLET DANCER/ARTIST: My name is Matthew Adamczyk. I'm a dancer with the Jofrey (ph) Ballet, as well as a painter. I want to show you some of my favorite spots in Chicago.

I want to take you to Tweet. It's where I usually come before a show to get a hearty, healthy breakfast.

So when I came in, I noticed that they were offering a gluten free option and a regular option. What brought that about?

MICHELLE FIRE, OWNER, "TWEET": Demand. People - people really are very conscience of how they eat these days. They wanted gluten free, and we said, we can do it.

ADAMCZYK: We're here in the Art Institute of Chicago, in the sculpture court. I love to come here and see the human form depicted. It really inspires me to create art both on stage and on canvas.

Chicago offers some great venues for live music. So tonight I want to take you to one of my favorites, The Green Mill.

Nicole, this place obviously has a great history. And I understand we're sitting in the actual Capone booth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, this is where Al Capone would sit when he came in.

The rumor is that if you were here when he came in, you could drink for free, but no one was allowed to leave. That's how he stayed alive, being paranoid and controlling.

ADAMCZYK: So now you've seen what I love about Chicago. Come visit me. See me soon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:48:11] COSTELLO: John Glenn, a longtime senator, and the first American to orbit the earth, has died at the age of 95.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God speed, John Glenn.

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COSTELLO: He rode an atlas rocket to fame and into the history books in 1962, circling the earth three times in just under five hours. He later would make history again in 1998, this time becoming the oldest person in space at the age of 77. Today, flags at the Capitol were at half-staff in honor of Glenn, who served as an Ohio senator for nearly a quarter of a century.

President Obama issuing a statement that reads in part, "the last of America's first astronauts has left us, but propelled by their example, we know that our future here on earth compels us to keep reaching for the heavens."

For more on John Glenn's life and legacy, I'm joined by retired NASA astronaut Leroy Chiao.

Welcome, sir.

LEROY CHIAO, RETIRED NASA ASTRONAUT: Carol, a pleasure to be with you.

COSTELLO: Talk about John Glenn's legacy. What did he mean to the space program? CHIAO: Well, as you said, he was the first American to orbit the

earth. He was one of the original seven astronauts. And, you know, his personality made him kind of a larger than life hero. Certainly one of my boyhood heroes. Certainly one of the early astronauts who inspired me to want to become an astronaut myself. So saddened to learn about his passing, but what a full life. You know, both in the astronaut office, before that, as a naval - a marine aviator, and then, you know, afterwards as a senator. So, gosh, he's kind of did it all.

COSTELLO: I know. He didn't waste a moment.

As you well know, space flight is inherently risky. John Glenn was asked about the danger of space travel in a 1998 interview. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN GLENN: We used to joke about it in the past when people would say, what do you think about on the launch pad? And the standard answer was, how do you think you'd feel if you were on top of two million parts built by the lowest bidder on a government contract?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:50:08] COSTELLO: So he had a sense of humor. I love that so much.

CHIAO: Yes.

COSTELLO: You know, the thing about John Glenn - and I met John Glenn many times because I was a reporter in Ohio for a long period of time and when he served as senator I interviewed him. I met John Glenn and his wife. And they were really lovely, nice, humble people and that also stood out about John Glenn.

CHIAO: Oh, absolutely. When I met him when he was training for his mission in 1997-1998, and also got a chance to meet his lovely wife, Annie, I mean, like you say, they're just sweet people. Very, very forthright and very friendly, outgoing and very serious, too. You know, he took his mission training seriously and went out there and did a great job, you know, as you would expect.

COSTELLO: You know, I've always wondered what he would think of NASA's program now because it's so diminished from when he traveled into space.

CHIAO: Right. I mean, you know, the Apollo program that followed the Mercury and Gemini programs, I mean that was the Zenith as far as funding goes and as far as, you know, kind of a national imperative went as far as trying to get to the moon first. And so, since then, of course, we've had a number of successes with both the shuttle program and the station program and now we are, you know, we are going a bit slower than we would like, those of us in the business would like, and they're less efficient. You know, but the good news is, we're still moving forward. So I'm, you know, cautiously optimistic we'll continue to do that and we'll continue to move forward and I hope that we can remain the leaders in human space flight. COSTELLO: Leroy Chiao, thanks for joining me this morning.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, it's one of the oldest most heated rivalries in college football, the Army-Navy game. And this year President-elect Trump will be in the stands and so will one other guy, Coy Wire.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol.

I am here at Annapolis at the Naval Academy and I've had a blast learning about some of the traditions here. Behind me is Tecumseh, a figurehead on the USS Delaware from the 1800s that students here, they like to throw pennies in his quiver for good luck during finals and they also like to decorate him on game week. Army-Navy game, it's going to be a good one. We'll talk about it coming up.

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[09{56:46] COSTELLO: Years before the very first Ohio State-Michigan game or the first Iron Bowl, there was the Army-Navy game. Now as the two teams prepare to meet for the 117th time, Army is hoping to snap a 14-game losing streak to Navy.

Coy Wire live in Annapolis. He's covering the big game.

Good morning.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

The first Army-Navy game was played in 1890. And this game highlights men who are not just committed to each other and to the game, but to us, to serving and protecting our country. We caught up with one of the greatest Navy players of all time, Keenan Reynolds (ph). He set NCAA records for rush yards and most touchdowns. Now he's a member of the Baltimore Ravens. And for the first time he'll get to watch this Army-Navy game as a fan.

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KEENAN REYNOLDS, NAVY QUARTERBACK 21012-15: The Army-Navy game, in my opinion, is the biggest and best rivalry in all of sports, really, just what it means to both sides. It's the biggest thing that you learn as a (INAUDIBLE) walking into the Naval Academy is beat Army.

Being able to win all four years was kind of like the high note of my career at the Naval Academy. Nothing felt any better than running on that field with my teammates and being excited and being able to celebrate after the game. Everybody screaming and yelling and jumping and jumping in the stands to be with the (INAUDIBLE) and just singing the alma mater and being able to shout "beat Army" at the end after you just beat Army. I mean it's kind of an indescribable feeling. It's everything.

As a fan, I'm just ready to enjoy the bells and whistles of the game. I mean I never really got to appreciate the - all the glitz and glamour that surrounds the game. So now I'm going to have the opportunity to go. I definitely want to just go and enjoy life, you know, the march on, the flyover, stuff that we not - we're not out there for and really just kind of soak it all in.

My prediction of the game is very obvious. It's going to be Navy in a rout (ph). Beat Army!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: One of the most revered and enchanting rivalries in all of sports. It's going to be a great game. Even President-elect Donald Trump has said he's going to be there. And keeping in tradition with presidents who've attended this game in the past, he will stay one half on Navy's side, the other half of the game on Army's side so as not to choose a side. Whoever wins this game, it doesn't really matter. It's about the meaning behind it. There are going to be tears. There are going to be joy. It's going to be awesome tomorrow at 3:00, the Army-Navy game, America's game.

Carol.

COSTELLO: Wait. Wait, did you say it doesn't matter who wins?

WIRE: Oh, I shouldn't say that while I'm on the Naval Academy. Go, Navy! Beat Army! There we go. How about that?

COSTELLO: I was going to say, you're in danger now, Coy Wire. Thank you so much.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Donald Trump meeting right now with House Speaker Paul Ryan. Let's take a live look at Trump Tower where we could see the president-elect heading out the door for his thank you rallies in Louisiana and Michigan later today. All of this ahead of what could be a decisive weekend for the secretary of state pick. Aides to the president-elect say former critic Mitt Romney is still in the running but concede that Trump is now expanding his search.

[09:59:52] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP: In recent days he's been meeting with Ambassador John Bolton, Congressman Brobacker (ph) and more recently, Rex Tillerson from Exxon and yesterday Alan Mulaly (ph) from Ford. These two men are captains of industry who already deal with the developing country.