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Obama: Syria Foreign Policy Not "Flawless"; Federal Reserve Expected To Hike Key Interest Rate; Trump Team Disowns Energy Questionnaire; Closing Arguments Tomorrow In S.C. Church Shooter's Case. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired December 14, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: -- interview you did with President Obama almost an exit interview where you focused on his legacy. When you asked him about Syria, how does he see this crisis as part of his legacy?

[12:30:12] FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": Well, it's interesting. He -- for him Syria is in a sense the most troubling, the most complicated, the most, I think he used the word heartbreaking with me when describing it, part of his legacy, because there isn't an answer as far as he's concerned. He hasn't found an answer. He hasn't found a way to use American force that could save these people in some kind of a sustainable way.

And what he -- when he talked to me about it, he wondered whether -- you know, part of the problem was the history that the United States had been involved in Iraq, that it the intervention had gone badly, that Americans were tired of it. Listen to what he had to say specifically on this issue of heartbreak.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, (D) U.S. PRESIDENT: The discussion about Syria which is obviously been as heartbreaking as anything that's happened in the world during the course of my presidency. And it's one of those things that has kept me up at night a lot. You know, if we had never gone into Iraq, if we had stayed focused on Afghanistan, we got in and got rid of Bin Laden and stabilized that country, so that we did not have continuing enormous obligations, could we assess our ability to do more in Syria differently? Perhaps.

But, the idea that under any circumstances we would be in a position to take over Syria and do in Syria what we have done in Iraq. And then maybe go to Yemen and do the same thing there, and maybe go to Libya and -- it would be endless.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAKARIA: So you heard him there, you know, just frustrated and heartbroken.

KEILAR: Yeah, I know, certainly. And one of the other things we're hearing coming out of the White House Fareed, is this, this claim that 75 percent of all ISIS fighters are now dead, 12,000 to 15,000 of them remain battle-ready. President Obama, this was his struggle. He couldn't eliminate ISIS during his time in office. So what is Donald Trump inheriting?

ZAKARIA: Well, Donald Trump is certainly inheriting a much weakened ISIS. ISIS has lost almost 60 percent of its territory. Mosul it likely to fall probably in the first month or two of his presidency. Then the battle will go to Raqqah which is the headquarters of the so- called caliphate. But he will still inherit a very, very difficult, complicated Syria that I think he feels he has a simple answer to which is, to hand it over to Assad. And in fact, Assad is now doing better and better. The Assad forces are likely to take over Aleppo but it won't solve the problem because Assad runs what is still in many ways a minority regime in Syria. He is an Alawite, a minority of 15 percent in Syria. Maybe he has support of some Sunnis, he clearly I think he does, but there are a large number of people in Syria who are in violent and armed oppositions against the Assad regime.

So saying simply, well, let Assad handle it, isn't going to work. And it is out of that context, out that, that civil war in Syria that all of these Jihadi forces are born and get strengthened, they get empowered, and out of those ungovernable spaces, those, those kind of bad lands in Syria that groups like ISIS and Al-Nusra have formed, there's a return of Al Qaeda in Syria. So, he will still need a Syria policy beyond saying, just hand it over to Assad. And it will have to be a policy that involves a much more, you know, much more active sense of what it is you're trying to prevent.

KEILAR: And you write something so interesting where you talk about, you look at this internal strife in Syria. And that causes a lot of refugees to flee. And then you have this age of mass migration that you describe. You link that to what we are seeing as the rise of populism, not just in the U.S. but around the world. Tell us about that.

ZAKARIA: Absolutely. So if you look at what is happening in Syria. You know, we see this tragedy, but we have to remember it is also exporting large numbers of migrants. You know, 4 million, 5 million people have been displaced in Syria. Some of them are coming to Europe in huge numbers. You look at a country like Austria which has taken in 1 percent of its national population last year alone. Germany as you know, almost took a million people. And this is changing the politics of all of these places.

[12:34:56] And part it is of course, we've been living through a lot of migration anyway. A lot of the migration in Europe is coming from Africa. Some in the United States is coming from Mexico and Central America. And then you have the Syrian migration which raises fears about terrorism. Often highly, you know, unjustified by which I mean certainly in the U.S. case, we have a very, very tough vetting system that takes two years. It makes it very difficult for some potential terrorists to get in but people, people are emotionally scared. They are unsure about what to do, and that has fueled the rise of right- wing populism all over the western world, you know?

So it's not as you say, it's not just Trump. It happened in Austria, it happened in France, it happened in even in northern Europe and countries like Sweden. And so what happened in Syria, David Petraeus has a great line, Syria doesn't play by Las Vegas rules. What happens in Syria doesn't stay in Syria.

KEILAR: No, you see the aftereffects all over the world. Fareed Zakaria, thank you so much. Such a great piece. We really enjoyed reading it.

ZAKARIA: Thank you.

KEILAR: And up next, after all of these months, all indications over the Fed is about to raise interest rates. What it means for the economy and your "Bottom Line", coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: If you're getting ready to buy a car or a home or if you have a credit card or savings account, pay close attention to this. The Federal Reserve is expected to raise a key interest rate today.

CNNMoney Correspondent Alison Kosik is joining us from the New York Stock Exchange. Tell us what this could mean. Everyone should have their eye on this Alison?

ALISON KOSIK, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So if you are looking to take out a loan, meaning borrow money, it's going to get more expensive. So you kind of hinted too that the areas where you'll see those costs go up. If you take out a new mortgage, or a new home equity line of credit, you're going to see those costs go up.

[12:40:03] If you carry a car loan, or if you carry a balance on your credit card, you're going to see rising rates there as well. But here's what's interesting. If you've been paying attention like I have lately, I've seen rates already move up ahead of the formal announcement of an expected interest rate raise that's happening in about two hours because the markets have already been expecting this move to happen because the Fed has been hinting since the summer time that it's been happening.

And the other part -- part of the reason for this is because you've seen an improvement in some big areas of the economy.

You look at the unemployment rate at 4.6 percent. That's at a nine- year low. You're seeing an average of 180,000 jobs being created every month. Look at GDP, up with the third quarter at 3.2 percent. Are you also seeing prices rising, but they're still below the Fed's target, 2 percent target rate. And the Fed once again has been dropping hints about this rate hike happening. So no surprises here on Wall Street. Brianna?

KEILAR: Tell us what are you're seeing there because we're keeping an eye on the Dow, we know it's flirting with these milestone of 20,000 points?

KOSIK: Yeah, within 20,000 -- the Dow is 20,000 within fitting distance. Many people on the floor here today telling me they don't see it getting here, getting a 20,000 mark today. But what's interesting if you can look at the bigger picture. One investor putting it this way, we are in the middle of a Santa Claus rally that's been happening since the day after Election Day and it's been dressed up as Donald Trump. What you're seeing happen at the Dow that ever so closer to that 20,000 mark, is the expectation that a Donald Trump administration will boost the economy because of lower taxes, less regulation, and expected stimulus that's expected to pass Congress.

So these are pro-growth measures that could wind up heating up an economy so you're seeing the Fed trying to get ahead of this, of a possible heating of the economy, and be more proactive than reactive. Brianna?

KEILAR: All right, Alison Kosik breaking it down for us there on Wall Street. We do appreciate it.

An up next, what the Trump transition team did that sent shock waves through the Energy Department. We'll have that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:45:57] KEILAR: Well, any new president is tasked right away with filling thousands of government jobs. He or she also inherits millions of workers who aren't going anywhere. Those are career civil servants who do the actual day-to-day business of government. It took a while, but the Trump team now is paying close attention to those workers too and in one case, stepping on some toes.

This morning, a transition source disowned a lengthy questionnaire sent to the Energy Department asking for specific information on staffers who worked on climate change. One question asks in part for a list of all employees or contractors who have attended any inner agency working group on the social cause of carbon meetings. Another one is a list of employees or contractors who attended meeting of the top decision-making panel of the U.N. Convention on climate change going back five years.

Now this week, the department refused those requests, and now top Democrats on two house committees want answers of their own from Trump's staff. Soon thereafter, one Trump official said the survey was not authorized and the person who had sent it has been "properly counseled."

I'm joined now by former Energy Secretary and former U.N. ambassador and former New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson. Someone who has worn many hats, but I know that you have been looking at this sir, and you have concerns. Tell us about them.

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER ENERGY SECRETARY: Well, I'm a former energy secretary, and the people that run the Energy Department are the career civil servants, not the political appointees. It shows that the Trump transition effort two things. One, they're totally undisciplined and secondly, that there's a bunch of climate deniers trying to exercise their political views on a transition process that should be non-partisan. So it's very troubling. Yeah, the -- this new person is, is to be counseled, the person that violated transition documentation. But it shows that it's at an out of control process. The problem though is that Trump himself, the appointees of President-elect Trump at EPA, at now possibly interior are a bunch of climate deniers and that's the transition staff is full of those. And this is very unfortunate because the issues of climate change should be determined by science. They should be determined by national security and not by political ideology, and that's the climate change deniers.

KEILAR: Is it unusual -- you know, once you left the Clinton administration, obviously you kept an eye on the George W. Bush administration. Is it that unusual for an administration to want to have civil servants seeing eye to eye with them on energy policy, on the position of climate change?

RICHARDSON: Well, you -- the civil service employees, they will support the policy of the incoming president and energy secretary. But this appeared to be a witch-hunt, this effort by the transition team. Name the officials that attended climate change meetings, the contractors. In other words, they're sending a message that they want those officials to be look at, punished or discarded when it comes to policy. Whatever the policy of the Energy Department is, you have to have the career people, the civil servants, the men and women that work very hard there to help you implement policy, and you're discouraging that by appearing to witch-hunt many of them.

KEILAR: I want to talk about this questionnaire a little bit more but first I want to ask you about who we think is going to be the incoming energy secretary, Rick Perry. This is someone -- both southwestern governors you two, and this is someone that you've worked with in the past. You know him. Tell us about him, because it sounds like you guys actually get on pretty well, and yet you still have concerns about him?

[12:49:54] RICHARDSON: Well, we get along well. We work together as governors, adjoining states on water, on energy, on immigration. He's a good guy. My worry is that he will be co-opted by the climate deniers. The Energy Department is not just oil and gas drilling. It's mainly national security, the national laboratories, science, nuclear weapons, a lot of relationships with Russia. So it isn't just oil and gas drilling and fracking.

What I worry about is that the climate deniers will get to Governor Perry and say, you know, you've got to dismantle the renewable energy program. It's a climate change programs that President Obama started and really pushed and gave resources and leadership at the Department of Energy. That's what worries me.

But on the whole, I think it's a good appointment. You need a big good political presence with energy, somebody with sharp elbows, a megaphone and Perry has that. But I hope he's not co-opted by all the climate deniers that President-elect Trump seems to be appointing. At EPA, now I hear somebody at interior. A congressman from Montana who's a climate denier. You know, this is very troubling for science, for national security, for American energy policy, and national security policy.

KEILAR: And back to this questionnaire where someone from the Trump transition team was asking the Department of Energy which they refused to do, to identify folks who had been at climate meetings, obviously folks who believe in the science of climate change and the effects of man on that. So this morning one of the transition team members described this questionnaire as an intellectual curiosity exercise. Listen to what he told our Chris Cuomo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, TRUMP TRANSITION TEAM: Some of the stuff that you're reading and some of the stuff I'm reading is very ideologically based about the climate. We don't want it to be that way. If you're asking me, do we want clean air and clean water? Yes. Do we want a safer, better environment for future generations of Americans and future generations of the world? Of course we want that. And we're working super hard here at Trump Tower to make sure that that happens Chris.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: You said Secretary that civil servants will execute the policy of whoever is obviously in the White House, or in the Department of Energy. But if a civil servant completely does not believe what their boss believes, how do they really work for an administration like that?

RICHARDSON: Well, what they do is, through internal deliberations they try to -- there are a lot of good scientists at the Department of Energy, at the national labs. They express their views. But in the end, the policy of the president and the secretary of energy is followed.

So do you those deliberations when you disagree internally. You do them diplomatically, and you do them quietly. But what this questionnaire has done, and this questionnaire was not sent to other departments. It wasn't sent to the Department of State, list the people that make Russia policy, the contractors, the political appointees, the career employees.

So this is unprecedented, but there's a bunch of climate deniers, anti-environmentalists in the Trump administration. It's obvious in the transition team, and it shows an undisciplined process that violates the standards, I believe of the civil service of men and women that work in the career federal service in the Pentagon, in the State Department, in the Health Department and all of the agencies that are doing their jobs, and following the president's lead. But when you try to intimidate them with a questionnaire, a witch-hunt, this is unfortunate. I'm glad they backed off but it does shows some troubling trends.

KEILAR: Yeah, they did say it wasn't authorized. We're trying to still get to the bottom of who sent it, though. Governor, Ambassador, Secretary Richardson, thanks for joining us. [12:53:58] And happening right now, the prosecution and defense both rest in the Charleston church massacre trial. We have dramatic details coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The video that you're about to see is so upsetting because we know what happened later. Dylann Roof is on trial for murder in Charleston, South Carolina, and we just learned that both sides have rested cases. Closing arguments are beginning tomorrow morning.

Roof went to bible study on June 17th last year and this group welcomed him in. They gave him a sheet of bible verses and he stayed with them at least 15 minutes before he shot and killed nine members of Charleston's Emanuel AME Church. The court released new video yesterday where you can see him firing at targets. Balloons loaded with liquid, other items on cinder blocks. All of it meant to show that he planned his attack and he has already confessed.

Nick Valencia joining me now. Nick, give us the latest of what's been happening?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That video is very difficult to watch Brianna as you mentioned especially knowing what happens after that. We know today the prosecution and defense, both rested their cases, and the prosecution book-ending their case, starting with the survivor of that church shooting last June in Charleston, South Carolina. Today, they brought forward Polly Sheppard, she is the woman said to have been kept alive by Dylann Roof so she could recount the horrors of what happened that day in bible study.

Over the course of last week, the prosecution has gone to great lengths to showcase Dylann Roof as a cold blooded calculated killer, somebody who meticulously planned out this shooting and had showed no remorse since. They highlighted his manifesto as well as his website, the last Rhodesian which appears to show his adoration and -- adoration towards white supremacy, his hatred towards blacks

They also highlighted a sheet seemingly cut into a triangle to fashion itself after a Ku Klux Klan hood. For his part, I was in the courtroom last week, Dylann Roof emotionless, expressionless, his eyes train down, hands clasped in his lap, he hasn't really said or done much while hearing -- survivors' recount of what happened -- to get closing arguments sometime tomorrow morning. Brianna?

KEILAR: All right, we know you'll be looking and reporting on that. Nick Valencia, thank you so much as the story continues.

And thank you so much for watching NEWSROOM. Wolf starts right now.

[13:00:08] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 8:00 p.m. in Aleppo, Syria, 9:00 p.m. in Mosul, Iraq. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks --