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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Civilians Evacuated From Aleppo To Another War Zone; Russia To U.N.: No Harm Will Come To Aleppo Evacuees; Traces Of Explosives Found On EgyptAir Victims; Family Seeks Justice For Vigilante Killing; Report: Some 3,000 People Evacuated From Aleppo; Roles for Trump Family Members Under Scrutiny; New Solar Power Trend Sweeps Uganda; Jury Finds Dylann Roof Guilty of Church Massacre; One Billion Yahoo Accounts Hacked. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired December 15, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live at CNN London. Thanks for being with us this hour. This is
THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
Out of Eastern Aleppo but far from safe, days of bombardment by the regime with virtually no letup finally gave way today. This allowed civilians to
board busses out of the besieged part of the city, heading for Idlib Province.
As Fred Pleitgen reports they are leaving one war zone for another.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After months of siege, hunger and violence, finally, a journey to safety.
A fleet of buses and ambulances carrying thousands of fighters and civilians from Aleppo's last rebel enclave to other areas held by the
opposition. Many glad to be heading to safety but also bitter to have to leave.
SALAH AL-ASHKAR, ACTIVIST (through translator): We wanted the free Syria. No one stood by us. No one helped. Like you see now, we are forced to
leave our country, our home, Syria.
PLEITGEN: The evacuation, negotiated by Russia, Turkey and Iran, got off to a tragic start, pro-government fighters apparently opening fire on the
first set of vehicles. This video obtained by Britain's Channel 4 TV.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Now we are hearing sounds of weapons. We don't know what's happened now.
PLEITGEN: The evacuation is set to mark the end of the opposition's presence in Aleppo. Bashar Al-Assad's government poised to regain full
PRESIDENT BASHAR AL-ASSAD, SYRIA (through translator): The people of Aleppo with their resilience, the Syrian-Arab army, with their courage and
sacrifice and every Syrian citizen, who stood with Aleppo and their country and homeland, I just wanted to affirm that today history is being written.
PLEITGEN: And it comes after weeks of violence, so bad many felt they could no longer hold out, simply trying to survive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Me and my children together, that is my final dream.
PLEITGEN: Aid workers say many of those being evacuated from Eastern Aleppo are in some of the worst condition they've ever seen human beings
in. And, while those leaving Aleppo may have escaped with their lives, they move into an uncertain future, having left their homes and their city
evacuated to another part of Syria where the war is still raging. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Beirut.
GORANI: Well, so what is the international community doing for the people in Aleppo? So many have said not enough. Let us go live to the United
Nations. Steven O'Brien is the U.N. humanitarian affairs chief, and he joins us now. Thanks, Mr. O'Brien for being with us.
Do you have any concerns for those who are evacuated from Eastern Aleppo, especially the young man after reports of executions in that part of the
STEPHEN O'BRIEN, U.N. HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS CHIEF: I have millions very intense concerns. I am very of course relieved that after the falls start
of yesterday where it all collapsed, we've not got real evacuations taking place.
We understand the latest information from the ICRC and the Syrian Arab Red Crescent is that over a couple of evacuation so far about 3,000 civilians
have come out and about 40 for the very critically ill through ambulances have come out.
And that there is a third rotations it's called taking place roughly as we speak and we only from the U.N., we have only a few personnel from the
World Health Organization at the gathering points where people are being loaded onto those buses and ambulances to help monitor that as it goes
The rest of U.N. has not been allowed in. We were invited to oversee and monitor these evacuations by the Russian Federation, but we were turned
back by the government of Syria.
[15:05:04]And that is why I am speaking to you from New York and we don't have a lot of people there, but we do have the same reports --
GORANI: Yes, you made the request to the Syrian government to allow U.N. observers and workers to enter Syria and you were -- those request were
denied, is that correct?
O'BRIEN: We were not able to get through the government of Syria checkpoint so we couldn't proceed. We stand ready and for those who are
able to get to either Western Aleppo or further field to Idlib, there are U.N. and indeed other NGO and international NGO partners who are ready to
provide hot food, blankets, medicines, shelter, for those who are coming out.
It has been weeks, months, certainly in the last few days are the most horrific besiegement where we are seeing people who are initiated, who are
extraordinary short of food. The last official food distribution was the 15th of November.
And going back to your first question, we understand, just like you, these reports that are coming out, but we can't verify them that a young man in
particular even though they are coming down these so-called safe corridors have been taken to one side.
And we too have heard reports that there are maybe torture even executions and it is absolutely vital that we do every we can to gather the
information, gather evidence and makes sure that new such a vulnerable alleged potential war crimes are held to account. But at the moment our
focus is in getting people out safely.
GORANI: We are going to be discussing, by the way, that specific angle with (inaudible) as well who is going to be preparing a report to present
to the U.N. Security Council, but I do not have to tell you Mr. O'Brien so many people have looked toward the U.N. and have said what has the Security
Council managed to achieve.
All of this has unfolded in front of everyone's eyes over the last several weeks, and the U.N. had basically been impotent. It hasn't been able to
stop any of it. How do you respond?
O'BRIEN: Well, you're right. It's on our watch. It's our collectible watch as the United Nations, I am part of that, the humanitarian part. We
want the access, a safe unimpeded access as is our right under the international humanitarian law, but we've not been able to get in.
You will have seen the tie along with many others who make sure their facts as best we know them are presented impartially mutually to the Security
The 50 members who sit around that horseshoe table, the permanent five amongst them obviously carrying that most influence and we make sure the
facts (inaudible) up to them to take the physical decisions that they can't find a point of unity.
The highest common denominator of unity in all sense of moral decency and outrage as to what's been going on in Aleppo that we don't get -- we can't
get the resolutions. It is up to the key powers, the key member states to take the action.
They are the ones with the capacity to stop this thing and to create the peace that enables us to have the access to meet the people's needs.
GORANI: We know it's in the hands of the powerful members of the U.N. Security Council and the five permanent members, including Russia that
vetoes many resolutions calling for ceasefires and another things in Aleppo and other parts of the war zone in Syria.
But what can you do? I mean, I know your briefing the Security Council to (inaudible). Can you take any steps right now? I know you've made request
to get passed checkpoints and those have been denied. What can you do?
O'BRIEN: Well, I can assure you that in addition to mobilizing the resources all of the United Nations, the humanitarians or the agencies
working closely and coordinating with the international and national NGOs, and the first responders, you can see that the ICRC and the Syrian Arab
Crescent are at least making progress with these initial evacuations.
We have to continue to do two things. First of all, always to be ready, really ready to act the minute we get safe, unimpeded access and the
ability to reach the people in need, whether it's one or tens of thousands. We have to reach those people in need and that's what we need to do in
Although it is only part of the totality of what is a brutal continuing conflict in Syria, where we are reaching millions every month with food and
water and shelter, but still insufficient because we can't reach everybody.
But that said, it is also very necessary here at the United Nations, the largest member state organization of the world designed to be the apex of
our ability to talk about the conflicts in a diplomatic way, to find resolution by talking not using violence, and warfare and that is where we
continue, however, often we're knock back.
However, often we are deterred to continue to lay out the arguments, layout the facts. Make sure that the noise is so loud that eventually we have to
hope that the key members of the Security Council come together and realized not only is enough, enough, but it is our absolute duty to reach
the people in need and to stop the terrible deprivations and depredations that are being visited (ph) of all the people of East Aleppo.
[15:10:04]GORANI: Stephen O'Brien from our U.N. bureau there, the humanitarian affairs chief joining us from New York. Thanks very much for
your time. Mr. O'Brien will be briefing the Security Council tomorrow.
Just moments ago, the secretary of state of the United States, John Kerry, made a special address on Aleppo. He listed three things that the U.S. is
looking for, a durable ceasefire, also number two, a safe pass out of Aleppo for those who choose to take it. The regime says it is providing
that. And three, access for humanitarian aid.
We have heard from Mr. Stephen O'Brien there that that access was denied to -- by the Syrian regime pass certain checkpoints in Aleppo. Listen to John
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: With these steps, we are convinced that the killing and the suffering in Syria could stop and it could stop
very, very quickly if Russia and the regime made the decision to do so. There are individual ceasefires be worked out, individual arrangements with
armed opposition group commanders, and it appears for some period of time, at least we do not know yet if it will hold or where it is that airstrikes
and shelling have stopped and that the ceasefire may, I emphasize may be taking hold.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: John Kerry there. The U.S. has been quick to point out that the humanitarian atrocities they say the Syrian regime and its allies, Russia
are committing are on the side of those who support the regime, what are they willing though in America do for those suffering civilians.
The U.S. State Department spokesperson, Mark Toner joins me now from Washington. Mr. Toner, thanks for being with us.
We are hearing another statement from John Kerry. We haven't heard from the U.S. president, for instance, over the last several days on Aleppo.
But beyond statements, what is the U.S. doing to try to have some kind of influence in the disaster unfolding in Aleppo and other parts of Syria?
MARK TONER, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Well, let me first just assure you that everyone here in Washington, the president and certainly at
the State Department and you saw the secretary of defense as well have been seized with what is happening in Aleppo, especially over this past couple
of weeks and certainly these past hours.
Look, you know, Secretary Kerry spoke about what we are trying to do diplomatically to get a cessation of hostilities back up and running. He
has been on the phone with Foreign Minister Lavrov with his counterparts in Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Iran.
And all with the aim of trying to get what we had begun to see which is the reduction of the violence, a pause in the violence, so we can get safe
passage for civilians.
So we can get safe passage for the opposition and let's be clear as well, we are not going to see an end to the fighting even if Aleppo does fall.
This is not the end here.
What he also stressed was we need to get the political negotiations back up on track and that needs to be done as urgently as possible and the
oppositions on board. The opposition is ready to go to Geneva. We need Russia and Syria to agree --
GORANI: But what kind of leveraged does the United States have now? Mr. Kerry has about a month left in office. It seems as though Russia, the
Assad regime, their allies in Iran Hezbollah fighters inside the countries are calling all the shots here. So what does the U.S. hoped to achieve?
TONER: Well, look, again, you know, and the secretary has made this quite clear --
GORANI: What is the American plan here?
TONER: Well, tangibly, the American plan is as I said to get this cessation of hostilities back into place and then get a political process
back up and running in Geneva. Look, we have all seen this movie before. I'm not trying to pretend that we haven't been at this exact point several
times and if not more in the past months.
But that doesn't mean we are not going to keep up with our diplomatic efforts to get to a resolution and what you -- you asked me what leverage
we have, the regime and Russia realize even if they take Aleppo, they don't have the mandate. They do not have the power to take that country back
from where the opposition is still active.
This is not going to end the war. They realize and they say they realize that we need a political solution here. So again, Aleppo --
GORANI: You think they realize -- the Syrian government and their allies in Russia realize that there needs to be a political solution right now?
You think that realization is a reality in the minds of --
TONER: Look, you know, you'll have to ask the Russians what their -- but what they tell us is that they do want a political solution to the
situation. That is what we have been talking about for many months. Now again what the regime has done, what Russia has done in support of them is
Secretary Kerry said exactly that. You know we have -- they've been shamed in the U.N. Security Council and the General assembly by 122 member states
who voted last week on a resolution that condemn what is happening in Aleppo elsewhere.
[15:15:05]Besiege and starved tactics are unacceptable, but what the real resolution here is and you are asking about leverage, there is no military
solution to Syria. The only leverage that we have is that all the stakeholders realize that and get back to the negotiating table.
The opposition is ready, if all the other stakeholders realize that -- please, go ahead.
GORANI: Mr. Toner, if you say that, you look at East Aleppo, the victory was a military one, that part of the city was besieged. It was bombed. It
was then emptied of, you know, the remaining civilians there in which the fighters left the faith that they are going they are going. I mean, that
victory was a military one, wasn't it?
TONER: Well, again, Aleppo is not the whole country and they are not going to be able to take back the whole country --
GORANI: It's the biggest symbolic prize of the war for Russia --
TONER: Yes, but you also saw this week while they were chasing Aleppo in pursuing that Palmyra again fell into the hands of ISIL. You know, it
questions whether the Syrian regime has the capability to hold the territory that they regained.
GORANI: Right. When speaking of Palmyra, it is interesting because the U.S. as well has engaged in airstrikes against ISIS targets. I mean, one
has to wonder how that happened that nine months after having being thrown out of Palmyra, ISIS managed to get back. What happened there?
TONER: Look, again, you know, I think it speaks to the fact that this was retaken by regime forces with Russia's assistance. It was actually seen as
an achievement. They brought a symphony into you welcome the restoration - - or the retaking of Palmyra. The Russians did. They made quite a big show about it.
And that as I said a few months later, it's fallen back into the hands of ISIL because likely the regime doesn't have the capabilities or frankly the
forces to hold that while they are retaking other parts of Syria.
Again, that is for military strategist to speak to. All I am saying is that it does show the weakness on the part of the regime so while they may
win the day in Aleppo, so to speak, we do not believe that they can take the entire country back.
And really, as I said the only way to end the fighting here is through a political solution. That's going to be our focus going forward, of course.
GORANI: Mark Toner, thanks very much for joining us from the State Department. We always appreciate your time.
Still to come tonight, six months after Egypt Air Flight 804 crashed into the Med, new evidence about what brought it down. Stay with us.
GORANI: New developments about Egypt Air Flight 804, the one that you remember crashed into the Mediterranean Sea in May. An investigation has
found traces of explosives on the remains of the victim. Egypt previously had said that a terror attack or technical failures could have down the
plane. Sixty six people died in the crash.
[15:20:07]Let's get more from our Richard Quest. He is live in New York. So is this sort of a definitive conclusion that it appears as though some
sort of explosive device brought this plane down?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: It is getting as close to that as you will get without a report, a final report into what brought it down.
We already know from some of the -- from some of the statements that part of the fuselage, those pieces of the wreckage that are being returned from
the front of the aircraft where we also believe there was a fire at the front.
We know there has been scorching, very hot, very, very intense fire took place there as the debris have shown and that is indicative, if you like,
either of a lithium fire, but there is no evidence of that or of an explosion.
So the groundwork has been set in the past few months for that and indeed, Hala, the French have suggested, look, you know, it's about time you said
this, we know that there has been explosive residue found. Now the Egyptians have come out and said it is all heading towards this being a
GORANI: But so where did the flight originate? I mean it, did it -- I know they obviously took off from Paris. Did it originate somewhere else
and did the passengers remind me, did it take new passengers on board during its Paris stopover.
QUEST: The flight had done various routines earlier in the day. As you can see here, Cairo down to Asmara and then to Tunis and these were all various
segments of flights before -- this was its six segment of the day, its final flight of the day.
Now here is the point about this, Hala, if an explosive device had been put on in one of those other places Asmara or back in Cairo or Tunis, before it
went to Paris, the aircraft should have been, if not fully searched, at least it should have been secured sufficiently.
I'll give you an example of what I mean here. If it have gone to Tunis and back to Cairo, at Cairo, there should been a proper search and the aircraft
should have been secured before then left for Paris.
Same again in Paris, once it got to Paris, it should have been impossible for anybody certainly somebody like (inaudible) to put an explosive device
So the moment we now know or we accept that there is an explosive device was able to get on board this aircraft then frankly, the entire security
structures of EgyptAir in handling the aircraft and the various airports upon which it flew all must be called into question.
GORANI: All right, Richard Quest, thanks very much for getting more pieces of the puzzle there with explosive residue found on some of those
unfortunate victims. Thank you very much. We'll see you at the top of the hour on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS."
The Philippines president, Rodrigo Duterte, is one of the more controversial leaders currently on the world stage. Now a Philippine
senator is meeting a charged to have impeached.
This comes after Mr. Duterte declared earlier this week that he personally haunted and killed suspected criminals when he was mayor of Davao City. He
was already under fire for his war on drugs, which allowed the killings of suspects without a trial. Will Ripley is in Manila for us and sent us this
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A Philippines symbol of a family seeking justice for two lives stolen, two chicks sit
atop the coffin of Francis Manosca, 6 years old, killed in his sleep lying near his father, Domingo.
There was a knock on the door says Elizabeth Navarro, my husband said, who is that then I heard two gunshots. By the time Navarro realized what was
happening, her husband and son were dead. The gunman gone.
She says her husband was an occasional drug user trying to get clean and what is become open season for anyone suspected of being tied to drugs.
Married for 11 years, this mother of five now a widow at 29.
(on camera): You have a baby on the way, how do you go forward now?
(voice-over): I have nothing to do, she says, but try to go on with life. One day after these murders, Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte revealed
he personally killed drug suspects while serving as mayor of his hometown.
RODRIGO DUTERTE, PHILIPPINES PRESIDENT: But in Davao, I used to do it personally just to show to the guys that if I can do it, why can't you?
RIPLEY: Nearly 6,000 people have died in the Philippines in less than six months. Police call more than half of those deaths vigilante-style
[15:25:06]Many suspect police involvement often little or no investigation. All of this openly encouraged by President Duterte. This woman too afraid
to show her face. They are killing left and right, she says, sometimes they kill 10 or 20 a day. I am scared. These days, you do not know who is
(on camera): Public opinion polls show the majority of Filipinos support President Duterte's war on drugs. They say it makes their communities feel
safer, but here in this neighborhood, we couldn't find a single person who says this number of killings is justified.
(voice-over): Even this woman who supports Duterte is afraid to speak of openly. I hope that the government will give people a chance to change,
she says, a chance for them to stop using illegal drugs.
Maria Mosabia insists her son, Domingo, was not a thug or a dealer, but she admits his use of shabu or meth, a three dollar high may have gotten him
Just outside, they play cards to raise $900 for the funeral three times her late son's yearly earnings as a bicycle taxi driver. This is just one
Filipino family out of thousands and promises by their president of even more killing to come. Will Ripley, CNN, Manila.
GORANI: Coming up on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW, are war crimes taking place in Eastern Aleppo? We'll speak to the diplomat leading an inquiry into Syria
at the U.N. Human Rights Council. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
GORANI: Welcome back. Breaking news from the U.S., a jury has found Dylann Roof guilty of the first 12 counts in his federal trial. The self-
declared white supremacist has confessed to gunning down nine people at a Charleston, South Carolina church last year. He could face the death
penalty. The judge is still reading off the other counts. But right now, as I mentioned, breaking news, Dylann Roof guilty on the first 12 counts in
his federal murder trial.
Also among the top stories were following, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry says we are watching, quote, "indiscriminate slaughter" taking place
in Syria. He says Washington will do everything it can to save lives as civilians evacuate by the hundreds from Aleppo.
Kerry says the ceasefire has not been achieved because the Syrian regime is not abiding by the terms, but we do understand right now it is quiet in
[15:30:01] Investigators are revealing information on what may have caused the crash of Egypt Air Flight 804. They announced today that traces of
explosives were found on the remains of some of the victims. The plane went down six months ago on its way to Cairo from Paris. Sixty-six people
Let's return now to the situation in eastern Aleppo. We know that civilians are being evacuated from the area and moving into a very
uncertain future in a place that isn't guaranteed to be safe in many cases, another war zone in Idlib. The U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights now
says the bombardment of civilians after a truce had been agreed upon probably was a war crime. Let's dig deeper.
Paulo Pinheiro joins me now via Skype from Rio de Janeiro. He was chairman of the Commission of Inquiry on Syria at the U.N. Human Rights Council.
Mr. Pinheiro, thanks for being with us. You are preparing a report that I understand will be presented to the U.N. Security Council in January. Is
that correct? What are some of the main findings that will be included in that report?
PAULO PINHEIRO, CHAIRMAN, INDEPENDENT INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION OF INQUIRY FOR SYRIA, UNITED NATIONS HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL: Well, the investigation is
taking place now. We have yet to finish. But I must say that since July, our Commission is calling attention for what was already happening in east
Aleppo in terms of, for instance, the destruction of schools, of hospitals. And then finally, when the siege was officially acknowledged, recognized,
it was something that we are calling attention in terms of this policy of starve and siege. And of course, several military actions by the
government forces may constitute war crimes.
This is exactly what we hope to document and to present in our report.
GORANI: OK. So several follow up questions. I mean, first, you're in Brazil. Obviously, there are no U.N. observers on the ground to gather
evidence, so how do you compile evidence in order to include in a report that is reliable?
PINHEIRO: Yes. Of course, we are in good company because there are no other people doing what we are trying to do outside. Of course, we rely on
the victims, on witness that left Aleppo for other countries. And of course, we have communications by Skype, like we are having today, because
we are not allowed to enter Syria. Of course, every allegation that we receive, it must be corroborated with -- it must be confirmed with our
other allegations. That is, we don't simply compile allegations.
GORANI: So the other --
PINHEIRO: It's a --
GORANI: Go ahead.
PINHEIRO: It's a trouble.
GORANI: Yes, it's difficult. The other obvious one is, OK, let's assume you find evidence that potential war crimes have been committed on both
sides. I know the rebels as well, according to some reports, have done things that could be considered that. But then, how do you hold anyone
accountable for anything, regardless of what you're findings are?
PINHEIRO: This is very much -- since 2012, we are telling in meetings with the Security Council that the Security Council is the only body in the
universe, in the right nations, to make accountable those crimes because the --
GORANI: But I don't have to tell you that the Security Council is so divided. It can't even agree on a resolution to implement a ceasefire in
Aleppo in the worst of times.
PINHEIRO: Yes, but we don't have -- that is, we don't have any authority to judge or to condemn in judicial terms what is happening. What we can do
is, exactly, to document both sides because we are not just looking the problem sources. As you said, there were a lot of indiscriminate attacks
by rebel groups that I mythologically consider as moderates but, in fact, they are allies of a terrorist organization. Then we try to look for all
sides but, of course, in terms of the air strikes, the bombardments made by pro-government forces.
GORANI: Mr. Paulo Pinheiro joining us from Brazil. He's the chairman of the Commission of Inquiry on Syria at the U.N. Human Rights Council
preparing a report to be presented and made public in a few weeks. Thank you very much for joining us.
Our next guest has a very personal connection to the situation. Haid Haid's sister lives in eastern Aleppo. Haid is a Syrian columnist and
researcher who works for Chatham House and he's here in London.
Thanks for being with us.
[15:35:11] HAID HAID, MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA PROGRAMME ASSOCIATE FELLOW, CHATHAM HOUSE: Thank you.
GORANI: So you were in touch with your sister. What's going on eastern Aleppo?
HAID: Well, today, they would try to get out of eastern Aleppo, but they were not able to because you have thousands of civilians who are trying to
get out, and you only have few buses. So they had to go back home and they're waiting and they will try tomorrow in order to get out of Aleppo.
GORANI: So she and other people you know in eastern Aleppo are still waiting for transportation?
HAID: Exactly because only few buses are provided. And it's slow process, so if the pace of the process continues, then it will take days in order to
GORANI: And what about the ceasefire? Is there any fighting, any shelling? What's the latest there?
HAID: Since in the morning, there was one violation where some militia's fired at the ambulances that were supposed to evacuate from Aleppo.
GORANI: Militias associated with?
HAID: With the Syrian regime.
HAID: But after that, no violations have been reported.
GORANI: So at least on that front, it's been quiet. Where does your sister -- what next? I mean, where does she hope to go now?
HAID: Well, luckily enough, my family is in the countryside of Aleppo, so most likely, she will go there. We didn't discuss that because we are
still discussing what's happening right now.
HAID: We cannot really discuss what will happen tomorrow, and this is why the whole focus was on are you OK? Are you OK? Can you get out of Aleppo?
What's happening? These are the sorts of questions that I used to ask her. We didn't discuss what will tomorrow because we don't know what will
GORANI: Right. And there's so many people in a similar situation, thousands and thousands waiting. But for many of them, it could be Idlib,
it could be other places. Those are not safe places.
HAID: Definitely, they're not safe places because now, we're only focusing on what is happening in Aleppo, but at the same time, the Syrian regime and
Russia, they have been bombarding the rest of the country. They have been systematically attacking hospitals, schools, markets, civilians. This is
why even though other places are safer than eastern Aleppo, they are still not safe. And this is why we should do something in order to provide with
either safe places inside Syria or to allow them to seek asylum somewhere else which is not possible right now because all neighboring countries
closed border with Syria.
GORANI: Yes. They have so many millions already of Syrian refugees. I don't have to tell you that Aleppo is very divided. In the west, you have
very, very different, you know, reactions to what's happened in eastern Aleppo. And some people who think this is good, you know, that, at least,
the fighting is over, they consider the rebels to be allied with terrorists and they're happy about this. What's your reaction to that because your
city is not on the same page at all?
HAID: Definitely not because, first of all, I think when people look at what's happening in Aleppo right now, they forget what happened before,
what happened six years ago, and why people started demonstrating. And what happened was, people started demonstrating, demanding political
change. And the regime because of the excessive use of violence pushed those people to become armed in order to protect themselves because the
international community failed to do so.
Now, what we are looking at is conflict, a war between different parties. The regime has foreign fighters. The rebel has foreign fighters with them.
HAID: And this is not what people want. People still want the same demands.
HAID: They want political change and they want more freedom.
GORANI: It's morphed into something though that just doesn't look anything like what the uprising was initially in 2011. Last question. I mean,
first of all, we really, really hope that your sister will be able to leave very, very soon in the coming hours, so we appreciate you coming here to
talk about that. But as a Syrian, as someone from Aleppo, what is the best case scenario for your country now, do you think?
HAID: Well, the best case scenario is to find a political solution, but the problem is that, first of all, the Syrian regime is still receiving
unlimited resources and support from its allies. At the same time, the international community is not doing anything in order to stop those people
or to pressure them in order to submit and accept to have a genuine political talk. And unless that happens, then what we will see is a
conflict that will last for years and years, and they Syria that I know will not be there anymore.
GORANI: All right. Haid Haid, thanks very much. We really appreciate your time. Good luck to your family.
HAID: Thank you.
GORANI: And thanks for coming on.
HAID: Thank you.
GORANI: We'll be, by the way, posting some of our interview with Haid on our Facebook page, facebook.com/halagoranicnn. A quick break.
[15:39:59] When we come back, U.S. President-elect Donald Trump is reportedly moving some of his family members into the West Wing, but a 1967
law says no public official may hire or promote a relative. So what is going on? We'll take a closer look. We'll be right back.
GORANI: We've watched U.S. President-elect Donald Trump fill his Cabinet with mainly White businessmen like himself, but his family is likely to be
heavily involved in the new administration too despite a federal law barring nepotism. Dylan Byers, our senior correspondent for media and
politics joins me now live from Los Angeles with more.
What are the expectations specifically regarding his daughter, Ivanka, and her husband, Jared Kushner?
DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR REPORTER FOR MEDIA AND POLITICS: Well, you would think because of those federal anti-nepotism laws that it would be out of
the question certainly for his daughter Ivanka Trump to be in the White House with him and for Jared Kushner, her husband. However, there is a
team of lawyers that is supposedly working around the clock trying to figure out how they can make this work. The latest reporting we have is
that Ivanka Trump will occupy the office space traditionally reserved for the first lady, so Melania Trump, Donald Trump's wife, will not be
occupying that space. That will instead go to his daughter, so long as they can overcome this anti-nepotism laws.
And then, look, I think outside of the legal framework, there's sort of a debate here going on about whether or not those nepotism laws should be in
place, if Donald Trump does view his daughter and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, as being sort of, you know, the people that he can trust ant the
people whose opinion he respects the most, should they not necessarily be allowed to have his ear? That's part of the question going on here. But,
you know, those nepotism laws have been in place for some time, and I do think that they present a major hurdle for those lawyers.
GORANI: And so is it possible that this may not go ahead? I mean, is it possible that because of the laws and maybe work-arounds to the law that
the lawyers are trying to find, that in the end it might not get through, the idea that Ivanka should be in the office traditionally reserved for the
first lady or that Jared Kushner would be in the West Wing as an adviser, that kind of thing?
BYERS: It's certainly possible that it could not go through. I mean, I think when it comes down to really is less legal than it is political. The
question is, what do Donald Trump's opponents or what do people in Washington want to make the sort of big political issues in terms of what
they challenge him on?
Obviously, Donald Trump presents so many sort of thorny legal issues, conflicts of interests, and then just certain things he wants to do that
are seemingly unprecedented for the office of the President of the United States. Is trying to bar his daughter and his son-in-law from taking part
in his administration, is that really the hill that Democrats and others want to fight him on? My guess is no.
[15:45:02] My guess is, the bigger question and really the issue that's going to come up again and again, and I'm sure you and I will be talking
about it for the next four years, are his business interests, where he might stand to benefit, where his businesses, which will continue to be run
by his kids, you know, where he will stand to benefit from those businesses because he is President of the United States. Those are really the legal
issues, I think, that opponents of Trump are going to want to focus on now in the transition and then certainly after Donald Trump becomes President.
GORANI: Well, certainly, we know his opponents are going to have to pick their battles, so we'll see which ones they'll end up picking. I want to
get, also, your take on Facebook that says it's going to start applying warning labels to some fake news stories that are shared on its network.
Articles that are seemingly published with the intent to trick people will be marked with what Facebook calls a flag, a red label that says, quote,
"disputed by third party fact checkers."
How is that going to work? First of all, is this going to be an algorithm? Will it be automated? Will this be a group of human beings just manually
going through feeds? How is it going to work?
BYERS: So it will actually be human beings. And, you know, the Facebook has spent so much time wrestling with the fact that it really is a news
organization and a news source for so many people, not just in the country but around the world. It has been very reluctant to assume the
responsibilities we usually associate with news organizations, and so they've gotten themselves into the thicket.
At first, they did have human editors who were then accused of having a liberal bias and tamping down conservative stories. Then they backed off
of that and they sort of left it to an algorithm, which is what let so many fake, just completely made up news stories sort of propagate around
Facebook. There have been a lot of pressure on them because of the 2016 election, because of various fake news stories that have had very real
world results, to actually step up and do something about it.
Finally, Mark Zuckerberg had the Facebook step up and is doing something about it. It is now human editors. So it's going to be people from fact
checking organizations, from ABC News. They are going to check these disputed things to see whether or not they check out. And users can flag a
story and say that it's disputed and then other users who'd come to it will get a flag that says, "Disputed by third parties. Are you sure that you
want to read or are you sure that you want to share this article?"
GORANI: It's going to be interesting. Well, I don't know if anything's going to stop people from sharing these stories, but we'll see what impact
it potentially has. Dylan Byers in L.A., thanks very much.
BYERS: Thank you, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Let's switch gears completely. Let's head to Africa in rural Uganda. A new power project hopes to provide a greatly needed
boost to the country's energy supply. It's east Africa's largest solar power generating station.
Eleni Giokos reports on how it could get thousands of Ugandans onto the grid.
ELENI GIOKOS, CNNMONEY AFRICA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These engineers are raising electric power poles in the eastern Ugandan town of Soroti.
They'll carry electricity where it has never gone before. Less than 20 percent of Uganda is connected to power, and in rural areas like this, the
rate is even lower. But nearby, there's a new energy source. East Africa's largest solar power generating station recently went online.
PHILIP KARULA, OPERATIONS MANAGER, SOROTI SOLAR POWER GENERATING STATION: The plant is built on a 33 acre plot and consists of 33,000 solar T.V.
panels and will produce nearly 20 gigawatt hours of electricity every year.
GIOKOS (voice-over): Construction on the $19 million-plant started in March. But already, it's soaking up east Africa's blazing sun and will
soon deliver much needed power to the national grid.
REDA EL CHAAR, EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN, ACCESS SOLAR: So the Soroti power plant is going to power 40,000 homes, businesses, schools and hospitals across
Soroti and wider Uganda. To put this into perspective, the Soroti district itself is around 66,000 households.
GIOKOS (voice-over): This primary school in a village eight kilometers from Soroti isn't connected to the national grid and operates without
electricity. Seeing power lines go up in this area means a lot.
TELEMARTHA OCHAKARA, HEAD TEACHER, SOROTI, UGANDA: I can see poles just passing near our school, so I'm optimistic that there can be a chance.
We've been very far from the way electricity passes. When I learned that you are putting a solar plant near us, I just felt happy. I knew a lot of
opportunities will come in, like us also getting connected with the power.
GIOKOS (voice-over): In this nearby village, they're become accustomed to living in the dark at night. And until transmission lines from the grid
make it to their area, this will continue.
[15:50:00] EL CHAAR: We hope that by putting up those generation plants in Africa that the transmission and distribution infrastructure will be
developed further to, hopefully, address the problem.
GIOKOS (voice-over): In the meantime, Access Solar has provided 100 solar lights to this village, giving them a taste of what is possible once they
have electricity. And as far as solar, there may be more to come in this area.
EL CHAAR: We will certainly look in the future into the expansion of the power plant. There are no technical reasons that prevent us from that
expansion, and we definitely believe that this is in the works.
GIOKOS (voice-over): Eleni Giokos, CNN.
GORANI: And we're talking about Yahoo now? Are we talking a break? I don't know.
We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. I promise.
GORANI: A reminder of a breaking news story from the United States this hour. A jury has found Dylann Roof guilty of the first 12 counts in his
federal trial. The self-declared White supremacists confessed to gunning down nine people at a Charleston, South Carolina church last year, a
traditionally African-American church. He could face the death penalty.
The judge, by the way, as we speak, is still reading off the other counts. In fact, I'm hearing now that Dylann Roof is guilty on all 33 counts. As I
mentioned there, guilty of the murder of nine African-Americans at a church in Charleston, South Carolina.
Dylann Roof, breaking news, guilty on all counts.
Let's move on now to this story. If you have Yahoo account, you're going to probably want to listen up. It's probably also time to change your
password. The company has announced a massive security breach. It happened back in 2013, and more than a billion accounts were exposed. The
breach may be one of the largest ever and is thought to be separate from a hack that Yahoo revealed just three months ago. Let's get more from Samuel
Burke. He's in the studio with us.
So, first of all, I didn't realize there were a billion Yahoo accounts. That was news to me as well as new of the hack. What happened?
SAMUEL BURKE, CNNMONEY BUSINESS AND TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's absolutely astonishing about this, Hala, is this hack actually occurred in
2013, and Yahoo, much like us, is just now finding out about this. This is a company that clearly has not invested enough money in cyber security
according to experts, and the proof is in the pudding.
Just look at what the hackers made off with. You have names, telephone numbers, e-mail addresses, passwords, and dates of birth. Now, what they
didn't get away with was information like data from bank accounts and credit cards.
Now, Hala, you're probably saying, oh, good, it's a good thing they didn't get that stuff. That's --
GORANI: I'm not saying that at all.
BURKE: Well --
GORANI: That's horrible.
BURKE: No, but it --
GORANI: Now, why did it take three years to figure it out?
BURKE: But listen, it's counterintuitive in the sense that you can change your credit card number, but you can't change your date of birth even
though some of us try from time to time.
BURKE: So listen, that information is what people use to get into other accounts. So that is really the biggest fear here, not that they're going
to get into your Yahoo account, but they use that information to get into other accounts.
GORANI: But isn't it too late to change your password now if the breach happened in 2013? Isn't it a bit late?
BURKE: Well, that is what's so alarming. There are steps that you can take, though, to make sure they can't keep on still getting into the Yahoo
account and other accounts. So Yahoo is going to force people to change their e-mail addresses. They're suggesting that you delete old e-mails.
You know, lots of corporations adopted that policy after the SONY hack.
[15:55:07] And if you only remember one thing from this report, Hala, use two-factor authentication. Whether it's your credit card, your bank
account, or your e-mail, change that setting now. That gives you a unique code sent to your cellphone anytime you log in from a new computer. That
way, if the hackers have your password, it doesn't matter. They can't get into your account because the hacker is not going to have your cellphone in
GORANI: OK. So if you log in, the two-step authentication is that a notification is sent to your phone.
BURKE: You use it right? All right.
GORANI: Well, yes, I do. In fact, I do because I do receive an e-mail and a text whenever I log in from another device.
BURKE: OK. Yes, Facebook, Twitter --
BURKE: -- Gmail, I use it on all of those things. And really everybody should be using it because, again, the code comes only to your cellphone
when it sees, OK, you're on a new computer. First, you type your password and then you get the code. So the hacker can't get the code because the
hacker doesn't have your cellphone.
GORANI: That's definitely a good idea. So let's talk a little bit, though, about what to do in the future. You have the two-step
authentication. Is that enough, though? I mean --
BURKE: Well, let's --
GORANI: -- it seems like nothing is keeping us safe from hackers.
BURKE: Nothing is 100 percent and really, what we're moving toward in the future, hopefully sooner than later, is using your thumb print more often,
using your face. It's hard to imitate people's face. So we are looking at a society without passwords and Lord knows, it could not come soon enough.
GORANI: Yes, absolutely. And by the way, there's that big Verizon deal. What's up with that?
BURKE: Verizon still says they're going through with it. As of now, they haven't cancelled it in spite of the fact that two biggest hacks of all
time have happened to Yahoo have been announced with Yahoo since Verizon made that offer.
GORANI: It's a little scary that it took three years for us to learn about it.
BURKE: Three years.
GORANI: Thanks very much as always. Samuel Burke with us on this Thursday. Now, the U.S. Transportation Security Administration, the TSA,
Samuel, has what appears to be a depressing Instagram post. An abandoned giant teddy bear meant to warn travelers about oversized luggage. Look at
him. They said, quote, "He was abandoned by his owners at LAX" after the airline and TSA determined that he was just too big to be screened as
carry-on luggage. But now, the TSA says the traveler was not a despondent child but a YouTube prankster, and it was stunt to see if he could get the
giant bear on the plane. They say the prankster bought a ticket for the bar.
BURKE: As if travelling could get any worse with that depressed bear by the trash can when you're about to be stripped searched at the airport.
GORANI: All right. Now you know. Now you know, don't travel with a giant bear. Samuel, thanks. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next. I'm Hala Gorani.
I'll see you tomorrow.