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Clinton Calls for Investigation; Independent Investigation into Hacking; Obama Vows Retaliation for Hacks; Civilians Still Trapped in Aleppo. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 16, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 9:00 p.m. in Moscow. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Up first, rising tensions over Russia's hacking of the U.S. presidential election. We're following several developments this hour.

On the intelligence front. Analysis points to Russian President Vladimir Putin's involvement. A senior administration official says the hacking, quote, "could not have been done without the highest levels of the government, including the president himself."

Officials also say the hacking has continued since the November election.

On the global front, President Obama promises the U.S. will retaliate against Russia. We will hear from the president directly about the election hacking in a news conference in the next hour.

In an interview with the national public radio, the president says he confronted Vladimir Putin about the cyber-attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think there is no doubt that when any foreign government tries to impact the integrity of our elections, that we need to take action. And we will at a time and place of our own choosing.

Some of it may be explicit and publicized. Some of it may not be. But Mr. Putin is well aware of my feelings about this, because I spoke to him directly about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: On the political front, Hillary Clinton weighs in on the hacking. She says it was part of Vladimir Putin's grudge against her. And Russia's election interference has recreated a rift between the incoming and outgoing president relations.

President-elect Donald Trump is skeptical of intelligence, pointing the finger at Russia while the White House is taking a more combative approach. Let's get some more on all of this from our reporters. Our White House Correspondent Michelle Kosinski is joining us. Our International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson is joining us from London. And our Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto, he's here with us in Washington.

Michelle, President Obama vows to retaliate against Russia. What more do we expect to hear from the president about all of this in his news conference next hour?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This is bound to be extremely interesting. I mean, not only is it going to be about an hour-long press conference but this could very well be his last press conference of this kind during his time in office.

So, this is going to be heavy on news of the day, especially since there is so much news of the day. So, we're going to ask about Russia's hacking. People will ask about the transition. There's probably going to be questions about Syria in there. Looking for more detail.

I think he's not likely to go into a lot of detail, beyond what we've heard already, on what the response to Russia will be. I think he'll talk more conceptually about that.

But I think where we're probably going hear some movement is on the transition, and aligning himself more with the kinds of statements we've heard from his press secretary day to day in the briefing room.

I mean, much has been said now about the combativeness, the responses to Donald Trump. We know that the president has to be onboard with some of those comments that have raised questions.

And we know that what precipitated those were the administration's anger at the kinds of questions and denials Donald Trump has been making over whether Russia was even involved in this hacking.

We know that got the administration's hackles up. We know the president is probably going to be eager to respond to that. And we expect to hear much more -- Wolf.

BLITZER: I'm sure we will. Stand by.

Nic, Russia fired back, today, basically telling the U.S. to put up or shut up about the hacking. Update us on Russia's reaction.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Wolf, it's very clear that Russia wants this -- or these statements to go away. And it's certainly challenging them in a strong way.

Dmitry Peskov, the spokesman for President Putin, said precisely this. They should either stop talking about that or produce some proof at last, otherwise it all begins to look unseemly. That's the spokesman for President Putin.

But, also, we've had other spokesman at the Kremlin weigh in today as well, saying that, you know, when President Obama at the G-20 had a pull aside with President Putin, they spoke about a number of things. They also talked about this issue of cyber hacking.

And the Russians are saying now that they made, President Putin made his position very clear. This Kremlin spokesman is saying that if that didn't fit into President Obama's message, that's not their fault. So, they're strongly pushing back against this.

Of course, we remember the press conference President Obama gave at the G-20 there in China back in September. You know, he said the United States capability, in terms of dealing with cyber issues, was better offensively and defensively than Russia's. But he said he didn't want to get into a tit for tat escalation.

[13:05:00] He -- what he wanted to do was, sort of, stop a wild, wild west attitude, if you will, for the use of this sort of cyber hacking.

So, the Russians, very clearly saying, that that's it. Draw a line under this. Either show your evidence or be quiet -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Interesting.

Jim, we're also learning more from the intelligence community about Putin's level of involvement. You've been doing a lot of reporting on this. Update our viewers.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Well, you'll remember the October statement a month before the election said Russia was behind the hacks and that it most likely needed the senior-most Russian officials to have OKed this.

Already, at that time, it was the view of the intelligence community that Vladimir Putin either knew about it or ordered it. It's just too top-heavy a country to have an attack of this magnitude happen without this OK.

But since then, they've gotten more intelligence to back that assessment up. Specifically, the kinds of sophisticated cyber tools, let's call them what they are, cyber weapons that were used in this attack. That the use of those tools would require Vladimir Putin to OK the use of those tools.

And that's why they have increasing confidence on something really they believed for some time. But, Wolf, I think we can't put too fine a point on it to say that we are entering crisis territory here. Because you have an outgoing administration that have identified Russia as the perpetrator that is talking about retaliatory action.

You have an incoming president who, at least in public, that Russia is even behind this. So, if the action starts, what does this president do? How does he respond to it going forward?

And just as a measure of that. I thought this was very interesting. Senator Richard Burr, as you know, he's the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, a Republican I should note, just put out a statement, announcing that they will be probing this. In this statement, he felt the need to defend the intelligence community, saying they care deeply about their country. They work every day to keep us safe. They come from all walks of life. Unlike many in Washington. This is clear, this is key, though, though they check their politics at the office door.

Keep in mind, members of his own party, in fact, the president-elect of his own party, is accusing the intelligence community of politicizing this intelligence, as the president-elect dismisses their assessment that Russia is behind this attack.

So, you have the Republican chairman of the intelligence community feeling the need to defend the I.C. against attacks from their own party and their own president.

It really is -- we are entering a crisis phase here in this clash between the highest office in the land and the intelligence agencies that work for the highest office in the land. That's going to be really momentous to watch.

BLITZER: Fascinating. It certainly will be. All right, thanks very much, Jim Sciutto, Nic Robertson, Michelle Kosinski. Appreciate it.

A Trump transition source, by the way, says the president-elect is concerned about the Russia hacking report. But transition officials think the issue is being used to try and delegitimize his election victory.

Earlier today, the president-elect tweeted this, and I'm quoting now. "Are we talking about the same cyber-attack where it was revealed that the head of the DNC illegally gave Hillary the questions during the debate?" Close quote.

The president-elect met today with Jeh Johnson, the Secretary of Homeland Security, one of the key agencies responsible for cyber security in the United States.

Congressman Chris Collins of New York is a member of the Trump presidential transition team. He's joining us now from Lancaster, New York just outside of Buffalo.

Thanks so much, Congressman, for joining us.

REP. CHRIS COLLINS (R), NEW YORK: Always good to be with you, Wolf.

BLITZER: So, President Obama says the U.S. will retaliate against Russia over the cyber-attacks against the U.S. during the election. Do you support that?

COLLINS: Well, I have no comment on what President Obama is going to do or not do. What I will say, it's time for the president, time for Hillary Clinton and the country, to move beyond some of this nonsense and let's get behind Donald Trump. Let's unite behind Donald Trump.

BLITZER: Congressman, let me interrupt. Let me interrupt, Congressman. What is the nonsense? What nonsense are you talking about? Because we've heard from so many of your Republican colleagues, chairmen of intelligence committees, armed services committees, who have seen the same evidence and they dispute what you're suggesting, this is nonsense.

COLLINS: Well, what I'm saying, even -- no. Let's stipulate for a minute that rush did hack, cyber-attack the U.S. I mean, these --

BLITZER: Do you believe -- do you believe that the Russians were involved in cyber warfare against the U.S. during the election?

COLLINS: We'll never know with 100 percent assurance but I would say let's stipulate they did. The election is over. Donald Trump did win. He is our president. And to call him the electoral college president or for President Obama to not recognize this election was a repudiation of his eight years in office.

And if Hillary Clinton, personally, --

BLITZER: But Congressman, President Obama has obviously recognized that Donald Trump will be the next president of the United States. He won the election. He received him the next day at the White House.

[13:10:02] President-elect Trump was very gracious and thanking the president of the United States. They've opened up all the doors to try to have a smooth transition.

Why are you suggesting he doesn't recognize the results of the election?

COLLINS: Well, that was kind of a press opportunity that the president did. And I think, again, they are trying -- the Democrats are trying -- whether it was Jill Stein with the recount or what we're seeing now. They are trying every which way they can to try to claim this election was rigged or in somehow Donald Trump didn't win fair and square.

BLITZER: No. I think you're wrong. Congressman, I've known you for a while now. They're not trying to suggest that. They're trying to get to the bottom of whether or not the Russians did it. Why they did it. And learn from this experience to make sure the American election process is not undermined down the road.

The same kind of attacks, as you know, they could be launched the against Republican candidates. This time, they were launched against Democratic candidates. But they could be launched against you down the road, Congressman. Don't you want to learn from what just happened?

COLLINS: Well, we all know that cyber hacking is part of our life from this day going forward. I'm sure the United States is involved in it. All nations are. And it's something we all have to be aware of and do what we can to protect our e-mails and other security.

But I would also suggest that people who are lying and are deceitful, and the e-mails then point out the truth. What you're hearing now is the Democrats to the extent this did happen. It's the truth that came out that may have had an impact on this election instead of the lies and deceit.

So, if the truth had an impact, then so be it. I don't think anyone should complain that the truth did come out.

And let's stimulate that Russia did cyber hacking. Again, all countries are doing it. We don't like it. We can never condone it. But I would just suggest that lies and deceit have no part in our election either.

BLITZER: But if the Russians did it, do you agree with the president, President Obama, that the U.S. should retaliate?

COLLINS: Well, I don't know what retaliate actually means. I'm sure that there's things we do on the cyber security area as well. Do I think that we should somehow disrupt their power systems or anything like that? Their grid, their electric grid? Absolutely not.

I think we should, and the president, if he believes what he believes, should lodge his protest. And I'm sure part of the comment coming back would be, you're doing it as well. I leave that up to President Obama. That's not my decision. He's got, you know, about four weeks left in office. And he'll do what he will do. He is still the president of the United States.

But I'm just suggesting, let's all get united behind Donald Trump. And let's move this country forward and not continue finger pointing, suggesting somehow this election was rigged, when, at worst, it was the truth that came out that had an impact on the election.

BLITZER: Yes. I don't think they're suggesting the election was rigged. The election clearly was not rigged but clearly the Russians did play a role.

I want you to listen, Congressman, to Hillary Clinton. This is what she told a gathering of donors last night. The Russian hacking, she says, was the result of Vladimir Putin's grudge against her. Listen to what she said. Here's the audio obtained by "The New York Times."

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Vladimir Putin, himself, directed the covert cyber-attacks against our electoral system, against our democracy. Apparently because he has a personal beef against me. Putin publicly blamed me for the outpouring of outrage by his own people. And that is the direct line between what he said back then and what he did in this election.

This is not just an attack against me and my campaign, although that may have added fuel to it. This is an attack against our country. We are well beyond normal political concerns here. This is about the integrity of our democracy and the security of our nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, Congressman, do you want to respond to Hillary Clinton's comments? COLLINS: Well, Hillary Clinton just doesn't want to admit that her

shortcomings are the reason she lost the election. She is a finger- pointer and I think those statements speak for itself. She does not want to take any blame for losing Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

So, there you go. That's not surprising with Hillary Clinton. She lost the election. It's time for her to move on as well. She's an afterthought, at this point in time, but Donald Trump as our next president.

BLITZER: Congressman Chris Collins of New York, thanks so much for joining us.

COLLINS: Always good to be whip you, Wolf. Have a great day.

BLITZER: Thank you.

Coming up, will Russia retaliate if President Obama carries through on his threats to take action against Moscow?

The ranking member of the Senator Foreign Relations Committee standing by To join us. There you see him, Ben Cardin's of Maryland. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Former Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton attributes her loss in the presidential election to two factors, the release of a letter from the FBI director, James Comey, about her private e-mail server. That letter was released 11 days before the election. And the second issue, Russia's cyberattacks. And now she wants an investigation. Listen to what Hillary Clinton told a gathering of donors in this audio obtained by "The New York Times."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Now, I'm pleased that a bipartisan group of senators is calling for a robust investigation. And I agree, and I hope you do, too. And it should be - it should be modeled on the 9/11 Commission, and do everything possible to get to the bottom of what happened. The public deserve to know exactly what happened and why in order for us to prevent future attacks on our systems, including our electoral system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is also calling for an independent investigation modeled on the 9/11 Commission. There you see Democratic Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland. He's joining us now from Baltimore.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

SEN. BEN CARDIN (D), MARYLAND: Wolf, it's good to be with you. Thank you. BLITZER: So President Obama vowed there will be action against Russia

for the hacking. What do you believe would be appropriate action in retaliation?

CARDIN: Well, I was listening to the president. I think he's exactly right. Some of it you'll see. It will be - we'll demonstrate our ability to use cyber to deal with those who perpetrated the attack against us. Some of it may not be so obvious.

[13:20:08] But I think Secretary Clinton is absolutely correct when she says we need an independent commission to investigate this. We were attacked after 9/11 and we had a commission that gave credibility to the American people that we were taking the appropriate steps to protect this country and to take action against those who attacked us. We need a similar commission, investigation into what Russia has done in attacking us during this past election.

BLITZER: So, some of the options -

CARDIN: So I think that's the best way.

BLITZER: Some of the options, senator, include increased sanctions. Let's go through some of these options. Would you support increased sanctions?

CARDIN: Oh, absolutely. And I have prepared legislation working with Republicans that will give the president additional tools to use as sanctions against Russia for their attack against us. There's things we can do with additional sanctions and also prevent, by the way, American companies from helping to finance these type of activities in Russia.

BLITZER: Would you support a cyberattack by the U.S. against Russia in order to publicize some, let's say, damaging or embarrassing information about the Russian president, Putin?

CARDIN: Well, I think we should have a measured response. I can't tell you the specific details as to how that should take place. But, yes, I think we should be willing to use our capacity to show Russia there's a consequence to their action against us. It's got to be measured and I think what we really need to make sure that we do is make it clear to Russia that we won't stand still for this type of activity.

BLITZER: Are you upset that the U.S. did not respond earlier? That the Obama administration, really except for maybe raising - raising an issue with Putin, the president did so in September when they met, that they really didn't do much in terms of threatening the Russians over the past year. Was that a blunder?

CARDIN: Well, I think it's become clear, as more intelligence information has been made available, that this was directed by President Putin, and that it was at the highest levels of the Russian government involved in the attack on our country. The question -

BLITZER: Well, let me interrupt - let me interrupt, senator. The Obama administration has known that for quite a while. CARDIN: Well, we're not sure. The - that's one of the reasons why the

president called upon the intelligence community to give him a full report during his term, so he knows exactly all the details. We're hoping that part of that report will be made public so the American people will understand the depth of Russia's involvement against the United States and who directed it and how we can respond to protect our country. So, look, I don't want to prejudge what the president - the timing of his actions. I know that he was super sensitive that we were in the midst of a campaign. Whether it was the right decision or not, I think we'll have to wait to see.

BLITZER: The argument that some insiders are pointing to - they are saying the administration, the Obama administration, really didn't do much because they were trying to work with the Russians on the Iran nuclear deal, they were trying to work with the Russians to try to get some sort of ceasefire in Syria. There were other issues that they needed Russia's assistant on. And as a result, the president held back in terms of dealing with this issue. Was that OK from your perspective?

CARDIN: I don't think that was - I don't think that was the case. The Iran nuclear agreement has been - was well over before the cyber activities against us. In regards to Syria, we have not had Russian -

BLITZER: But they needed - they needed - they needed the Russians to continue to cooperate, even after the agreement was signed and announced.

CARDIN: I'm not so sure that's accurate. We can take unilateral action if Iran does not comply with the agreements. So we preserved the right to act on our own.

BLITZER: But it's more forceful if you have - if you have the - if you have the Russians cooperation, senator, it's more forceful, more effective, right?

CARDIN: You're absolutely correct, but Russia - before this attack, Russia is not a reliable partner. And they make commitments to us in Ukraine. They violated those commitments. They made commitments to us in Syria. They violated those commitments. So we can't trust Russia. They're not a partner. They're working against our interests. So I don't think it was a matter of being nice to Russia. We know that we can't rely upon Russia as a trustworthy partner.

BLITZER: The other point they make is that they just assume Hillary Clinton was going to win and why disrupt the U.S./Russian relationship even further if Hillary Clinton was going to win and take over. But, obviously, she did not win.

Senator Cardin, thanks so much for joining us.

CARDIN: Thank you, Wolf. It's always good to be on your show. Thanks.

BLITZER: Thank you.

Coming up, President-elect Trump, he's tapping his bankruptcy lawyer to become the next U.S. ambassador to Israel. How his controversial position could change decades of U.S. policy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:28:16] BLITZER: All right, take a look at this. A live picture coming in from the White House, will President Obama will soon take the podium there, take questions from reporters following an opening statement before he and his family head off to Hawaii for the holidays. He will likely be asked about his comments about taking action against Russia for meddling in the U.S. presidential election. We're going to bring you a new conference live in the next hour. Stand by for that.

Meanwhile, a disturbing development in the Syrian crisis. In central Damascus today, a young girl wearing an explosive belt walked into a police station and detonated it. Syrian state-run television reports at least one person has been injured and the building has been damaged.

And in Aleppo, conflicting reports on the urgent evacuation of thousands of refugees out of the besieged Syrian city. Syrian state television saying the evacuations have been suspended because, and I'm quoting now, "terrorists breached the evacuation agreement." The U.N. says hundreds of children are trapped in east Aleppo and face death if they're not evacuated, but Russian state-run media says the evacuation of the area is complete and the only people remaining are armed militants.

Our senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen has been coving all of this for us. He was recently inside Aleppo. He's now in Beirut.

Fred, where do things stand right now in Aleppo?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you're right, Wolf, it is certainly confusing and conflicting information that's coming out of Aleppo. And you were saying that the Russians say they believe that the evacuation is already complete and that there's only, quote, "armed terrorists still inside the east of Aleppo." Certainly the Turks, who were also part of that agreement, who helped broker that agreement to evacuate people, say that simply isn't true. They say there's tens of thousands of people still inside there, badly in need of evacuation. You mentioned it. Many of them are children. But there's also many other people who are simply sick, who are wounded, who are weak and who need to be evacuated, otherwise they too could die very soon.

[13:30:12] Now, apparently what happened earlier today, Wolf, was that