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QUEST MEANS BUSINESS
Berlin Christmas Market Attacker`s Prints Found in Truck; Syrian Government Controls Aleppo; Trump Considering Imports Tariff; Italy Prepares for Bank Bailout. Aired 4-4:30p ET
Aired December 22, 2016 - 16:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST (voice-over): (INAUDIBLE) on Wall Street. The Dow Jones is over. And the young gentleman has hit the hammer bringing trading
to an end. The Dow has moved further away from the 20,000 mark, down 22 points.
It`s the only two-day losing streak since the U.S. presidential election. We`ll talk about the Dow and the markets in a moment.
Of course our coverage tonight beginning with breaking news from Germany, where the urgent manhunt continues.
QUEST: A variety of developments in Berlin today, which, of course, is still the scene of that search for the attacker. Now the Berlin Christmas
market where 12 people were killed on Monday has reopened and authorities are working to find the suspect that drove the truck into the crowd.
Investigators now believe that the 24-year-old Tunisian, Anis Amri, was driving the vehicle having possibly murdered the driver that was originally
driving the vehicle originally from Poland.
An arrest warrant has been issued for Anis Amri. The forensic department of the German authorities found Amri`s fingerprints around in the truck, on
both the inside and outside of the door and in the cab.
Police have conducted raids on Thursday at various locations in Berlin, North Rhine Westphalia and Heilboro (ph). No arrests have been made.
Chancellor Merkel spoke earlier when she said we know we are a target for Islamist terrorists.
Now as for who knew what and how long anybody`s known anything about this man, U.S. officials say the suspect was known to U.S. intelligence prior
the attack. He was put on the no-fly list of suspected jihadist supporters.
We have got new video, it`s disturbing, of course, it shows the moment the truck drove into the Christmas market. It is brief but you can imagine the
awfulness of the situation in what is otherwise a picture perfect Christmas scene.
And the video was captured on a private dashboard camera. So to the Tunisian suspect, whose family members have now been speaking out about his
alleged role in the Berlin attack. His brothers are expressing shock and sadness in what has happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): No human being wishes for something like this to happen. Anis never told us about his life or who he
was as a person. When he left Tunisia, he was a normal person, he drank alcohol and didn`t even pray. He had no religious beliefs. My dad, my
brother and I all used to pray and he didn`t. Maybe he got into this when he was in prison, where he met Algerians, Egyptians and Syrians.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): He doesn`t represent us or our family. If he is watching now, I just want to say, may God guide you for
putting us in this situation. Your father and mother are crying. People left their jobs to come and see us. You have caused so much chaos.
What can I say?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Joining us now tonight, Paul Cruickshank is CNN`s terrorism analyst. So much to digest. Let`s start with what was known about this
man. And how -- even though he was -- I want to follow on from what we talked about last night. Paul.
Even though he was known to the authorities, until he actually does something, there is not much that they can do about him other than watch.
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, they certainly had a lot of information about him because there was a police informant within this ISIS
recruitment network to which he belonged inside Germany, who was feeding information back to German investigators and security services, information
which included the fact that Anis Amri had, on several occasions, talked about wanting to launch an attack.
There was also information that he was trying to get a weapon at a certain point and the other members of this circle had discussed launching a truck,
ramming attack on a crowded area in Germany and then filling the truck up with a lot of gasoline and explosives.
All of that very disturbing information that was coming in months ago to German security services. And what they decided to do with all this
information is to go after the ringleaders of this network, the five top people, who were proselytizing, trying to indoctrinate these youngsters,
either to send them to Iraq and Syria to join ISIS or to launch attacks --
CRUICKSHANK: -- in Germany itself. They arrested them. They`ve been charged and now there will be a trial but they didn`t go after some of the
footsoldiers, including Amri, who is a violent thug, basically as far as we understand ,based on his trajectory. Someone who is radicalized as well.
And of course we saw the results play out like they did and the warning now, Richard, is that there are others still out there, part of the
network, other foot soldiers who might move forward with attacks.
QUEST: I think we can say with almost certainty that there are others out there in that sense. The U.S. knew about him ,not just in some esoteric
sense. The U.S. knew about him sufficiently to put him on a no-fly list.
CRUICKSHANK: Basically because the Germans would have alerted them because the Germans had all sorts of information on him and as a matter of course,
they share that information with the Americans and with other Western intelligence services. I don`t think there any evidence the Americans had
separate independent information on him. But it is interesting that the American judgment is that some members of this network were in touch with
ISIS in Syria and Iraq. And of course that would stand to reason, given they were funneling recruits all the way there.
QUEST: Where does this investigation go now?
Because -- and I don`t mean to find him, because eventually they will or they won`t, he will be caught dead or alive at some point -- but to your
much graver point, Paul, that I think you will probably agree there are other radicalized independent Islamist terrorists of this nature waiting
for a moment to pounce and act.
CRUICKSHANK: Well, here are the numbers. Tens of thousands of people that have become very radicalized in Europe, who are on the radar screen of
European security services, and that`s just the ones they know about, Richard, thousands, up to 9,000 now traveling to Syria and Iraq to join
groups like ISIS, several thousand, creeping up on 3,000 now who`ve come back to Europe.
And all of that means an attacker comes from anybody at anytime and it is very hard for them to predict who is moving forward and who is not going
to. It`s such a huge challenge they have to prioritize; it is basically like doing triage, right?
You make judgment calls every single day about where you put your resources because they`re very finite resources within these security services and
sometimes you get it right and sometimes you get it wrong. They got it wrong this time.
QUEST: Paul Cruickshank, who is in London watching with interest, Paul, thank you for that honest assessment of the events to date.
Now the Syrian government says they now have full control of Aleppo. That would mark a major turning point in the country`s five-year civil war.
Syrian state-run news is reporting the last convoy carrying rebel groups and their families have left. The evacuation of the bombarded city is now
Muhammad Lila is near Turkey`s border with Syria, joins us now.
I want to take this at a fair pace, Muhammad, because there is a lot of ground to cover.
Firstly, so the rebels have gone, is anyone left in East Aleppo?
Who would still be there, if anybody?
MUHAMMAD LILA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the idea was to evacuate all of Eastern Aleppo from rebels and civilians. We know the civilians were
evacuated some time ago. And the Red Cross told us the only groups really left, the majority of the people left were all rebels and fighters.
But now we have confirmation from the rebels themselves that Eastern Aleppo has been evacuated and is basically empty. The Syrian government knew this
would happen, it was choreographed weeks in advance of how this would all take place with the cease-fire agreement. They said they will send in army
engineers to go into some of these buildings.
And once that give that all clear, the idea from the Syrian government is to try to repopulate those areas as quickly they can and try to get life
back to normal, which, Richard, is almost impossible, given that that part of the city has been bombed almost every day for the last several years.
QUEST: All right, so the significance, as I alluded to in the introduction, of the Syrian government now having control of all of the
major population centers, does this mean -- all right, the fighting may move to Idlib province and it may move to a northern and the Kurds may have
some issues elsewhere.
But does this mean to all intents and purposes Assad won?
LILA: Well, just -- if you look at the facts on the ground it`s difficult to go that far and say Assad has won because we know, like you said, there
will be pockets of violence that --
LILA: -- will continue for months if not years. But the reality on the ground as you say is that Assad and his forces now control every major city
And Richard, years ago, that was unthinkable. We were talking about Assad maybe falling in three months or six months. The reality is he survived
all of this thanks to help from Russia and Iran but, look at how incredible this is, he will now outlast President Obama. Bashar al-Assad will stay in
office longer than President Obama.
Well, that`s simply incredible.
QUEST: So let me take you into very deep waters.
At what point does the realpolitik of this become clear in Washington, London, Berlin, Paris and they finally recognize we`re going to have to
come to an accommodation with Assad?
It`s not realistic to expect him gone.
LILA: Well, one of the biggest players in the region has been Turkey and there has been a lesson there, I think, in the way that Turkey has
approached this. Turkey been backing some of many of the groups in fact that have been fighting Assad.
But they recently came to the table with Russia and Iran and came to an agreement. Now the full details of that agreement we`re not aware of yet
but from what we understand, it looks as though Turkey changed their view and said, OK, for the longest time, we have been saying that Assad needs to
But now we`re saying maybe he doesn`t need to go. Maybe we just need to focus on having a cease-fire in Syria. And the rebels have been begging
for help from the United States and Western countries for such a long time. That help in a meaningful way never came.
And when that help didn`t come, Russia and Iran and, to a lesser extent, Turkey, were able to fill that vacuum. And that`s why those are the main
players in Syria right and all of the cease-fire agreements and everything that has been negotiated was done completely absent of the United States
and Western Europe.
QUEST: Muhammad, we`re very grateful that you`re there making it as clear as possible to us on the situation. Thank you, sir.
Now as we continue on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS and the breaking news, curbing free trade, it was a cornerstone of Donald Trump`s candidacy. Careful what
you wish for. The president-elect looks like he could follow through. There is a possibility of import tariffs that we`ll debate -- ahead.
QUEST: A warning shot to U.S. trade partners. CNN has learned that the Trump transition team is floating the possibility of tariffs on foreign
imports. Sources say one idea of Donald Trump and his advisers they`re debating is a tariff of 10 percent on imported goods. No decisions have
reportedly been made but any tariffs would likely be met by stiff opposition from business leaders as well as potentially factions within
Trump`s own Republican Party.
Rana is with us.
RANA FOROOHAR, ASST. MANAGING EDITOR, "TIME": Hello, how are you?
QUEST: Good to see you.
QUEST: I wish I could wish you season`s greetings --
QUEST: -- we`ll have to do it at the end -- but we have tariffs to get to grips with.
If this is general universal tariffs across all imports, with a view to shifting literally the terms of trade, what would you make of it?
FOROOHAR: Well, it would be a sea change, right?
The U.S. has been the ambassador of free trade for the last 40 years.
QUEST: This would includes allies like the E.U., like Germany, like Japan --
FOROOHAR: Yes, well, it`s interesting. A huge sea change, right, it basically is a line in the sand saying the era of free goods, services,
movement of people, everything has changed. The U.S. was the ambassador of that for the last 40 years. That`s really defined the capitalist order.
Big, big shift.
QUEST: Now, the reason -- let me be devil`s advocate here, Donald Trump says that would help shift jobs back to the United States. In one very
simple way he is right because clearly it would give U.S. manufacturing a chance to get a foothold.
FOROOHAR: I`m going to disagree with that. I can -- let me back up and say there are actual reasons for jobs to come back to America. There are a
lot of reasons for that.
Many companies have pulled jobs regionally all over the world for many reasons. To hedge energy prices, to hedge some of the political risks that
you`re seeing now in the big supply chains, like in the South China Sea or chaos in Europe because the migrant crisis. That is all legitimate.
But if you think about why manufacturing jobs would come, they come because U.S. workers are more productive. Tariffs do not make U.S. workers more
productive -- training, investment, that is what makes them more productive.
QUEST: They raise the cannot of the import to the point where the domestic product could be competitive?
FOROOHAR: It could be but again, this is at the margins and at the same time it is a signal. What worries me is even a small hike-up in across-
the-board tariffs. OK, you can say maybe that only shaves a little bit off GDP growth; it has this effect of making U.S. goods more competitive.
But think about what it signals to the rest of the world at a time when you have nationalism rising. You have got Europe possibly falling apart this
year with the Italian debt crisis, with elections of populists in any number of countries.
This is what worries people, that --
QUEST: No, no, Ms. Foroohar, it doesn`t, it sends a signal that says America means business once again and nobody is going to eat our lunch.
FOROOHAR: You know what I want to see for that signal?
I want to see a fiscal stimulus plan. I want to see some real investment in factories, in roads, in bridges and all of the stuff that we know as
people who travel abroad, are falling apart in this country. That`s one of the really great things that the Trump administration has proposed. That`s
what we need to see, not a tariff situation or a trade war, God forbid.
QUEST: All right. So we have got Carl Icahn, who`s going to be special adviser on regulatory and going to have a say in who`s going to be the next
head of the SEC, isn`t that a bit like letting the poacher choose the gamekeeper?
FOROOHAR: You know, yes, in some ways, yes. And it`s an easy point to make. Mr. Icahn, who I know well, is very opportunistic. But here`s what
I think is interesting. I suspect that people think Carl Icahn advising our regulatory issues is going to mean that we`re going to see financial
regulation rolled back.
That`s not where his head is. I think you may see Trump getting tough on environmental regulation and on EPA stuff. I think that that is something
Icahn would certainly advise on. I don`t think you will see a wholesale rollback of Dodd-Frank or anything like that.
QUEST: Were you planning on having a relaxing holiday season and a gentle new year?
FOROOHAR: Not at all, it`s a bumpy ride for the next year, I`m buckled in.
QUEST: This is the last time I get to see you this year, so thank you for --
FOROOHAR: Always a gift to be on your show.
QUEST: -- and it`s a present we thoroughly love having. Thank you very much indeed.
FOROOHAR: Thank you.
QUEST: Now President-Elect Trump has announced the formation of a new office that`ll help keep jobs in the United States, assuming, of course,
the tariffs that we`ve just been talking about.
It is called the White House National Trade Council and he has appointed the economist Peter Navarro to lead it. Professor Navarro was a key
economic advisor to the president-elect during the campaign. He is a long- time critic of China and he appeared on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in August when he told us it will not be business as usual for Beijing anymore.
PETER NAVARRO, ECONOMIST: If we`re trading with China, and they manipulate their currency; if they engage in illegal export subsidies, if they still
our intellectual property, if they run sweatshops and pollution havens, if they engage in the force technology transfer, all this stuff is against the
rules of fair trade in the international arena. Donald Trump will act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now the Trump team in some ways is a team of rivals when it comes to trade and China policies. Let`s just take a look. Bearing in mind,
they`re also a team of extremely wealthy men. Navarro perhaps --
QUEST: -- not so wealthy, professor. We`ve already talked about he was an outspoken critic of China. But then you have got the Commerce Secretary, a
billionaire, Wilbur Ross, who made a fortune, as you`ll be familiar, in distressed assets. Now he was against TPP. And he does favor restriction.
So that puts him in the Navarro camp as well.
Carl Icahn similarly billionaire, goes back to the `70s and the `80s. He is the regulator advisory or the advisory on regulatory and reforms and
he`s a great critic of regulation. So those three at the top are absolutely going to pummel ahead with the Trump agenda.
How about Gary Cohn (ph), who is the director of the National Economic Council?
He has called on China to explain policies more clearly. But obviously he comes from Goldman Sachs and is largely, widely going to be far more of an
internationalist and consider the effects much more of trade rather than the three on the top.
And secretary of state nominee is Rex Tillerson. another very wealthy man. He could drive a wedge between Beijing and Moscow. Remember, he has known
Vladimir Putin well since the 1990s.
And then you have got the ambassador to China, Terry Branstad, the governor. He has a tremendous understanding of China, says Trump`s
spokesman. So those are the nominees and they`re going to be part -- they are the team. The Huntsman (ph) Corporation is a chemical manufacturer.
It has dozens of locations and billions of dollars of sales in China.
Peter Huntsman is its president and chief executive, joins me now live from San Diego.
So you heard my introduction. You heard the team, Peter, that will be there.
Which route do you think they will take with China?
PETER HUNTSMAN, CEO, HUNTSMAN CORPORATION: Well, Richard, first of all, thank you very much for the opportunity to be on your show here. I hope
the route that they take is a 21st century route here. I first visited China in 1978, roughly the trade volumes between the United States and
China at that time were about $2 billion per year.
We do that much per day. And as we think about things like NAFTA and even the W-2 agreements, we`re talking about agreements that are decades old.
China and the United States does not even have a trade agreement today at all. There`s nothing even to criticize today.
And so I think that at -- first and foremost, we need to bring the relationship up to a 21st century sort of mark.
QUEST: Are you horrified at the prospect of these tariffs that you may have heard us talking about earlier, the prospect that an idea floating
around the transition of perhaps general universal import tariff of up to 10 percent?
HUNTSMAN: I`m not a big fan of tariffs. I don`t think at the end of the day that they accomplish a great deal of good. But I would like to see an
entire comprehensive package, not just one or two pieces of it that may be leaked for negotiating purposes and so forth.
Again, as you look at this relationship between China and the United States over the last 30 years, it has benefited both nations, created huge
employment opportunities on both nations. I think that`s going to continue.
All right, but what is it business leaders like yourself want?
I`m obviously familiar with the views of your brother, who is ambassador to China.
But what do you want, sir, as a businessman?
HUNTSMAN: I would like to have fair trade, not necessarily free trade but fair trade. Take something like intellectual property. Over $300 billion
per year worth of intellectual property is stolen or used or misused or misplaced in China.
How about environment issues?
NAFTA, WTO agreements, none of these agreements even begin to address the environmental issues. The competiveness between the two countries and two
companies. So I would like there to be some equal playing field on regulatory and to see that we can -- currency manipulation, labor rights
and so forth.
Again, 21st century sort of items.
QUEST: But that you`ve just espoused the Trump agenda, are you prepared for the consequences if tariffs, if restrictions, if a more muscular U.S.
trade policy is introduced?
Are you prepared for tit for tat from the other side?
HUNTSMAN: Well, I -- look, every administration, whenever they come in, they always talks tough about China. Once you actually get in and the
business is set and you start the relationships with people and you start to see how much we have at stake, how much debt China carries, both sides,
how much --
HUNTSMAN: -- goods and services are on both sides of the Pacific and the opportunity that avails itself. These agreements, there is no doubt that
they need to be modernized and brought up to date. But I think at the end of the day, 5-10 years from now, this is going to be a strong relationship
QUEST: Peter, as I wish you a happy holiday season, I do have one final request. Please, as the administration takes place and moves into office,
over the months ahead we`re going to need you, sir, more often to help us understand what`s happening from a business point of view.
So please do come back on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
HUNTSMAN: Richard, I`m a huge fan of your program, been watching you for 15 years and thank you very much.
QUEST: Thank you, sir, a very happy season to you and your family.
Now we need people like Peter on the program to give us an insight into what actually is the real business. Never mind the politicians and the
pundits. We need people who are actually doing real business.
Dow Jones, look at that, it starts the day down, it gets even lower, we have a bit of a rally but pretty much throughout the course of the day we
knew 20,000 would have to wait for another day.
So what I`m seeing here, although the index has moved away from 20,000, the actual loss of 23 points shows that there is still some energy and the
number`s still at 19,900. But it`s the first time the Dow has dropped two days in a row since Donald Trump was elected.
You have a look at the European numbers and you see a mixed session across the region. Let us not waste time, too much time because, frankly,
everyone is at holiday parties. They`re probably at the Schnapps and the sherry and the mince pies are being served. And I really hesitate to say
more than look at the numbers, because frankly it is meaningless just a day or so before Christmas.
Stocks in London providing the only bright spot, flat elsewhere. In Milan, the (INAUDIBLE) edged down. It was banking stocks, shares in Monte Dei
Paschi sank more than 7 percent because time has just about run out for the Italian lender. The board is on the brink of going cap in hand to the
It`s the world`s oldest operating bank and it`s failed to raise $5 billion in fresh capital. Italian lawmakers have approved $21 billion in emergency
funding to help prop up Italy`s ailing banks. But it will not be that simple, as you would expect.
There are E.U. rules that stipulate no bank can be bailed out until creditors take the first hit. It`s the banking directive. Lorenzo Codogno
(ph) is the visiting professor at the LSE European Institute. He`s live with me now from London.
Professor, this bank shouldn`t be bailed out, it`s not that big a bank, it`s not structurally significant. The banking directive is clear. They
should bail in before they bail out.
LORENZO CODOGNO (PH), LSE EUROPEAN INSTITUTE: Well, you know, the view taken by the Italian government, together with the commission, it looks
slightly different. In other words it has been allowed to recapitalize the bank according to one article of the bailing directive that says that if
there are concerns about the financial stability of the system, then the government can step in and inject capital into the bank with some partner
sharing of investors.
Partner sharing means that probably equity investors will be completely wiped out; the junior bondholders, subordinated bondholders, will have some
kind of haircut and their positions will be swapped into equity and probably senior bondholders and depositors will be safe.
QUEST: Right. So if -- how bad -- in a nutshell -- in a couple of choice sentences, $21 billion is waiting to go into the banking system. That will
not be enough, probably.
How bad is the system and is 2017 the year it all happens?
CODOGNO (PH): Well, oddly enough, I think that is exactly the other way around. I think that this situation has dragged on for a long while and it
should have been addressed long ago.
So there has been a necessary delay and now we`re getting to the point in which the situation is addressed. So it is positive for two reasons.
First of all, it provides a backstop, so we know for sure now that the government will step in and basically provide the necessary capital for the
Secondly, I think there were concerns in the market that there would have been some kind of mutualization with other sound banks in Italy. So
sharing the losses effectively. And this is not going to happen. So it is good as well.
QUEST: Professor, I wish you a happy holiday season. We`re talking banking on Christmas Eve. There we go, sir, thank you very much indeed --
or the eve before Christmas Eve.
Well, you know what I meant.
The Christmas market in Berlin is the target of the terror attack on Monday. It`s now Thursday and that market has been reopened. There are
candles and there are flowers and there are tributes. We`ll be back in Berlin in just a moment to update you on the investigation.
Also in this hour, we`ll take you inside the hacking of the Democratic National Committee and the mounting evidence of who was likely to have done
QUEST: I`m Richard Quest and this is CNN news now.
QUEST: Now to our top story in more details, the German authorities believed the man wanted in connection with the Christmas market attack in
Berlin is very likely the man who killed the 12 people.
QUEST: Eric McLaughlin joins us from the German capital to bring us the latest.
Also, let`s start with, perhaps, in this awfulness, a moment or a modicum of better news and that the Christmas market has reopened.
Has anyone turned up?
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Richard, people have showed up at the Christmas market today, actually a sizable crowd. It was a somber
atmosphere, though; markedly absent, the scenes you normally see at a Christmas market this year, people gathered around.
Don`t know if you can see behind me, they`re continuing to gather around, in fact, a small makeshift memorial with flowers, lighting candles,
remembering those who died in a show of solidarity. Meanwhile, the Europe- wide manhunt continues for the main suspect that perpetrated this attack.
MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): For months, the man they suspected of mowing down 12 and injuring scores, compiling hundreds of pages of intelligence. A
police informant said Anis Amri had, quote, "spoken several times about committing attacks."
Raids continue tonight across Germany for the most wanted man in Europe. Investigators say they found Amri`s fingerprints on the door of the truck
used in the deadly attack, adding to their confidence that he carried it out.
As more is discovered about Amri`s background and his links to radical Islamists.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We have additional indication that the suspect is the attacker. In the driver`s cab, we found fingerprints
and there are additional indications to support this.
MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): The lengthy investigative file connects Amri directly to a terror cell in Germany. Other members of the group talked of
carrying out attacks, including driving a truck full of gasoline and loaded with a bomb into a crowd.
Five men connected to the cell, including a close friend of Amri were arrested in November and charged with terrorism offenses. Two of Amri`s
brothers say that before he left Tunisia as a teenager, he was a very different person; he drank alcohol and he didn`t pray.
They say they believe he changed while in prison in Italy. Amri served a four-year sentence there for setting fire to a refugee center and other
violent offenses. When released in early 2015, Italian authorities tried to send him back to Tunisia but officials there refused to let him back in,
citing improper documentation.
Instead he moved to Germany, where he connected with an ISIS recruiting network. This year he was arrested for trying to travel to Italy with
state documents. Police were also aware of his attempts to obtain a gun. But German efforts to deport him back to Tunisia also failed and a judge
ordered him set free.
Tonight German officials fear several people could have been involved in Monday`s attack; despite all that authorities know about Amri, he remains
on the run, likely armed and dangerous.
MCLAUGHLIN: And there is an increased security presence here in Berlin at the Christmas market behind me. We saw police on patrol. They also
installed a concrete barrier around the perimeter to prevent this kind of attack from happening again, also increasing police presence at transport
links in the city, including airports, as well as railways as people make their way home for the holidays -- Richard.
QUEST: Eric McLaughlin in Berlin, thank you, Erin.
Now Russia may deny it but evidence is mounting that the country was behind the hacking that disrupted the U.S. elections. We`re going to break down
the anatomy of the cyber attack as seen from the company, inside the company, that helped break it. That`s next.
QUEST: New evidence tonight that Russia was behind the hacking of the Democratic National Committee, the DNC. The cyber security firm that
first investigated the hack has been explaining to us the same hackers have been now targeting the Ukrainian military. Clare Sebastian is here.
You`ve been looking into this; the same lot, up to no good.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. So the company CrowdStrike is the one that the DNC first hired back in may to investigate the intrusion
and they discovered two groups. One called Cozy Bear, one called Fancy Bear.
In today`s new report, that Fancy Bear, this is the one that CrowdStrike has viewed all along as closely affiliated with Russian military
intelligence. In today`s evidence, they say further reinforces that. What they found is actually staggering, Richard, when you think about it, is
that Fancy Bear has created malware that they use to infect an application the Ukrainian military was using in Eastern Ukraine to improve their
The malware allowed Fancy Bear to track the locations of the Ukrainian artillery positions. Now that is information that would be extremely
useful to the Russian military.
The reason they say this is reinforcing the view they`ve had all along, that this group is closely tied to Russian military intelligence is because
this activity aligns with Russian strategic interests. Just like we saw with the DNC, the interest was to sow doubt in the U.S. electoral process.
This is to cement Russia`s dominance in Eastern Ukraine.
But interestingly, Richard, I was at the offices of CrowdStrike earlier this week, this is raising more and more fears that we could either be in a
cyber war or heading towards one with Russia. Take a look.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the summer of 2015, you had the initial intrusion into the DNC from Cozy Bear (ph).
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): The anatomy of a cyber attack that shifted the world`s view of the Russian threat. This is the Washington, D.C.; office
of Dmitri Elparovic (ph), of cyber security firm CrowdStrike that was hired earlier this year by the Democratic National Committee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were brought in in May and that`s when we merely discovered that both Fancy Bear and Cozy Bear were inside the DNC network.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear, two separate hacker groups, both Elparovic (ph) believes connected to Russian intelligence.
Russia has repeatedly denied this.
And yet using their software called Falcon, CrowdStrike was able to imbed in the DNC network and watch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the chain of commands that they`re executing.
SEBASTIAN: So when the president-elect says you have to catch them in the act.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we did, we caught them in the act.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Elparovic (ph) grew up in the Soviet Union, moving to the U.S. as a teenager in the 1990s. He says it wasn`t the
breach that shocked him; it was what happened next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In July, when right before the Democratic National Convention, WikiLeaks discloses a lot of the e-mails from the DNC.
SEBASTIAN: Had you ever seen this happen before?
Anything like this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve observed just this type of behavior in Ukraine. The Russians had hacked into political parties of opposition candidates in
Ukraine, delete their e-mails, delete their documents but I never thought that they would do this in the United States. I just didn`t they that
would have the gall to do that.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): The hack on the DNC computer network and the timed release of information found there revealed not only the growing
power of Russia in cyberspace but also raised questions as to whether the U.S. and other countries had underestimated this threat, questions that are
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZ.: They`re ahead of us in many respects in this whole issue of cyber warfare. Perhaps the only area where our adversaries
have an advantage over us.
REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D): If the Russians want to have a cyber war in that regard, I feel confident that we`re the best and we can do what we need to
do in that regard.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Gregory Meeks chairs a congressional committee on Europe, Eurasia and emerging threats.
MEEKS: We have some big elections that are coming up in Europe in 2017.
MEEKS: And it seems to me the only one with an interest to see a divide between the European countries, the United States or the West in general to
try to up their power is Russia. So we have got to make sure we send a strong message back to them.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): So far, Elparovic (ph) says the message is not getting through.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fancy Bear, we have seen a pickup in their activity after the election but now it`s targeting Europe. I think it`s now very
likely that the same playbook that they`ve executed successfully against the U.S. will be playing out in all of those countries in the coming year.
And I`m not sure that the Europeans are prepared for it.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): A playbook, he says, where hacking is just a means to an end. The real weapon in this cyber war is information.
QUEST: Clare, who are Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear?
I don`t mean their names; I mean who are the humans behind it?
SEBASTIAN: Right, of course, this is a question that I put to Dmitry Elparovic (ph), because we`ve heard from the president-elect, you know,
could it be a 400-pound man in his bedroom in New Jersey.
He says it`s not clear. We don`t have a picture of someone in front of their computer. But he believes they could be wearing military uniform.
These could be people employed directly by Russian intelligence agencies who simply have the skills to run this kind of sophisticated cyber
QUEST: And Chancellor Merkel, there was a cyber attack in Germany last week that took lights out or something and she has basically said to the
German people, you`ve got to get used to this, this is going to be part of life.
SEBASTIAN: And I think that is a pretty good tactic actually because one way to combat this war of information is to come out publicly and talk
about it, to make people realize that this is going on.
This is one of the reasons why President Obama has faced so much criticism for taking so long. If you think about it, CrowdStrike came out
in June and said this, we barely reported on it at the time. And it took the U.S. intelligence community until late October to come out and say it.
So the real recommendation frankly from CrowdStrike is to do it publicly, make sure that people are aware, fight information with more information.
QUEST: Clare Sebastian, thank you.
Now if your lifelong dream has always been to appear on a TV quiz show and you finally made it, think about your strategy, what would it be?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Better R (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. You`ve $3,300.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is --
QUEST (voice-over): (INAUDIBLE) did indeed bet it all and the result was a win a big loss. And we will explain after CNN visits a company that`s out
to make the world`s warehouses as we look at the entrepreneurs shaping India`s future.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And our returning champion, a science content developer (INAUDIBLE) Texas, Cindy Stilwell, whose six-day cash winnings total
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now for most Americans, that opening of a television quiz show and the theme tune it`s unmistakable as the TV quiz show, "Jeopardy," has been
For the woman you just saw, being on the show was figuratively and literally a lifelong dream. And not only did she fulfill that dream, she
won six days in a row until last night, or at least when it was shown, but that`s not the reason her story is touch so many Americans this Christmas
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy, congratulations, young lady, you`re now a six- day champion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Cindy Stilwell did not live to see her episodes air but her "Jeopardy" journey and winning streak has captivated
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve had kind of a crazy run of skill and maybe a little bit of luck mixed in and that has kind of been a real bright point
among some other tragic circumstances the last couple weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): While Stilwell lost her battle with cancer at 41 just eight days before her episodes started airing, her
boyfriend and family managed to keep her winning streak a street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s definitely a hard secret to keep.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Stilwell, a science content developer, was a lifelong "Jeopardy" fan. After passing the online test to be a
contestant, she reached out to producers, knowing that her time was limited.
In an e-mail, she wrote, "Do you have any idea how long it typically takes between an in-person interview and the taping date?
"I ask because I just found out that I don`t have too much longer to live."
Producers were able to expedite her taping and just three weeks later, Stilwell was on set with Alex Trebek, fighting through her pain to make her
"Jeopardy" dreams a reality.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the lights were on, I think, call it a surge of adrenaline or what, she was able to fight through all that was going on.
STILWELL: Bet it all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): And her last wish is to have her jackpot donated to cancer research.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do have a legacy of her and it is really kind of a great way that, you know, she was able to leave something to be remembered
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Rachel Crane, CNN, New York.
QUEST: Now only the host and a few of the producers knew of Cindy`s condition while she was competing on the program. The audience didn`t and
neither did her competitors. After her six-day streak was over, producers asked Cindy why she so badly wanted to be on "Jeopardy."
STILWELL: It was kind of just a line in the sand that I drew. I wanted to donate a lot of the money to cancer research partly because -- this is hard
and I`m sorry; maybe I should pause or something like that -- but I`m dying of cancer.
And I really would like the money that I win to be used to help others. And so this seems like a good opportunity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: The recipient of the winnings is the Cancer Research Institute and the chief executive, Jill O`Donnell Torme (ph) is with me now.
Let me be -- we`re a business program.
What will you do with the money?
JILL O`DONNELL TORME (PH), CEO, CANCER RESEARCH INSTITUTE: Well, before I get to that, I want to just first say --
TORME (PH): -- I want to send our condolences to the family.
TORME (PH): She wanted this money to go to research and the money is going to go to research. She had colon cancer and we are funding research; in
fact, a new program that we just initiated this year on amino therapy for colon cancer. So the money will be designated to those grants, which
haven`t yet been chosen but they will be given before the end of the year.
QUEST: The extraordinary -- I mean, you are the trustee of not just her money but her wish, her will and her desire.
TORME (PH): It`s true and I think it`s -- I mean, we`re so honored, I think, to have been chosen and to believe that someone who`s battling
cancer believes, as we do at the Cancer Research Institute, that it all comes down to research.
That`s where the answer to this disease is going to come.
QUEST: Anyone who`s looked at this, cancer, knows it`s not one thing, it`s counted in different parts of the body, affecting -- in some ways, it is a
misnomer to use one word for it.
TORME (PH): True. It`s about 200 or so different types of cancer that all have certain characteristics but we focus on an area called amino therapy
and that`s using your immune system to treat, control and potentially cure cancer and it has the potential, it`s not specific to a certain type of
cancer, so it has the potential to treat all cancers.
QUEST: It`s nearly Christmas, give me some hope.
TORME (PH): Well, I think we have seen in the last five years amino therapies, which is the Cancer Research Institute has been dedicated for
almost 60 years, we have FDA-approved treatments for cancer and more on the way. And research is going to get us there.
QUEST: Research. Thank you very much indeed. Good to see you and thank you very much indeed.
On that note, I wish you a very good evening, I`m Richard Quest in New York. Another trading day tomorrow. I will be at the CNN Center, where
the program comes from. Join me then; otherwise around the world, around the clock. This is CNN.