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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Child Killed by Runaway Dump Truck; More Mall Madness; Top 10 Stories of 2016; Amazon Refusing to Turn Over Murder Suspect`s Device; Dylann Roof and the Death Sentence; 12-year-old left Alone At a Houston Airport. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired December 28, 2016 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[20:00:00] LISA BLOOM, GUEST HOST (voice-over): The 911 call devastating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was run over by a huge truck!

BLOOM: A mother`s horror.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God! What the hell! Who was driving?

BLOOM: A dump truck without a driver rolls down a hill and through several yards before hitting and killing her little boy and crashing into their

home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s just horrendous.

BLOOM: Another night of mayhem at several malls across the U.S.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When those 30 individuals got in the food court area, they started acting disorderly.

BLOOM: But why police believe this is happening probably won`t bore you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alexa, turn the lights on.

BLOOM: It`s one of the hottest holiday gifts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alexa, what time is it?

COMPUTER VOICE: The time is 1:24.

BLOOM: And cops say one man`s Amazon Echo could help them solve a year-old murder case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a deep invasion of privacy.

BLOOM: But the company isn`t playing ball and won`t give up any of the device`s voice recordings.

Another head-scratching decision by the convicted church shooter in South Carolina. Why Dylann Roof is not calling any witnesses during the trial`s

death penalty phase.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLOOM: Hello, everyone, and welcome to PRIMETIME JUSTICE. I`m Lisa Bloom, in tonight for Ashleigh Banfield. I am a trial lawyer at the Bloom firm

and a legal analyst for Avvo.

In North Carolina, police have charged a dump truck driver in a deadly accident that killed a 5-year-old boy. He wasn`t driving that truck,

though. It was rolling out of control through a subdivision.

On Monday, little Everett Copeland (ph) was playing soccer in his front yard with his sisters and a couple of friends. And that`s when the

unthinkable happened. A dump truck came barreling through the yard, and the 5-year-old could not get out of the way. Take a listen to the 911

call.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God! What the hell? Who was driving?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BLOOM: Oh! Workers say they were loading the truck with dirt when it just began to roll down the hill, and police say the driver, Alejandro Suarez,

left it unattended and he didn`t turn the engine off and he didn`t set the emergency brake.

Derrick Lewis is a reporter with the CNN affiliate CBS North Carolina, and he was in court today and he joins me from the Orange County courthouse in

Hillsboro, North Carolina. Derrick, what happened at this court appearance today?

DERRICK LEWIS, CBS NORTH CAROLINA CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Lisa, Suarez made his first appearance inside an Orange County courtroom was

around 2:00 o`clock this afternoon. He appeared to be a video from jail that was just played in the courtroom with judge, a prosecutor, his

attorney, and a translator, who was relaying information from English to Spanish for him and a group of reporters. And that lasted about two to

three minutes. It was very quick and brief. The prosecutor and attorney agreed on a $10,000 bond for Suarez.

BLOOM: OK, so this was a hearing to set bail, $10,000 bond, which typically would mean if he can raise to percent, so $1,000, he`ll be able

to get out on bail. I understand that he`s here illegally. Was that brought out in court today?

LEWIS: Yes. And that will play a part on, if he is able to post bail, whether he will be free or not. Now, there is this Immigration and Customs

Enforcement detainer that has been placed on him. That happens when there is some kind of question or some kind of concern about your status as a

citizen here in this country when you are arrested.

So during the process (INAUDIBLE) when he was arrested and taken to jail, that question was raised and he was given this Immigration and Customs

Enforcement, which they call ICE, detainer. So if he does post bail, he still will not be free because of this detainer that he has on him, as

well.

BLOOM: Right. OK. So they`re going to continue to hold him because of that. So Derrick, I understand that there were a number of construction

workers, right, involved with this truck. It was a dump truck. They were moving dirt around. Nobody was in the truck that at the time that,

unfortunately, it rolled down the hill and took the life of this little boy.

Why is this individual charged and not any of the other construction workers?

LEWIS: Well, I got a copy of the magistrate`s order here at the courthouse. And what I read through -- what I found out after reading

through it was that Suarez was the driver of that truck that drove into this subdivision here in North Carolina. He left the truck unattended

without first stopping the engine and effectively setting the parking brake. He is responsible for that vehicle, although he was not in it at

the time. The construction workers were simply putting dirt into the truck.

[20:05:08]This is a fairly new neighborhood. Houses are still being built, so there are a lot of construction trucks in that area. At the time they

were working, that is when the truck rolled down the hill. And police charged Suarez with misdemeanor death by motor vehicle because they believe

the fact that he left the vehicle still on and without the parking brake, that that was a result of 5-year-old Everett Copeland`s death.

BLOOM: Well, just a beautiful little boy. We`re looking at his picture now. What a heartbreak for the family. But also a lot of thorny legal

issues, I think, arising out of this accident.

And joining me now, former prosecutor Troy Slaten, defense attorney and CNN and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson and defense attorney Misty Marris.

Thank you all for joining me.

Joey, let me start with you this is an unusual case because the guy was not behind the wheel. I guess the fact that he wasn`t behind the wheel and he

hadn`t set the parking brake and he left the car on, that`s the basis for the negligence claim. What defense does he have, in your view?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN/HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, it`s problematic, obviously, Lisa. And good evening to you. It`s problematic because that`s

a beautiful child that`s dead, and as a result of that, there`s an emotional component. As much as if it goes to trial, it`s a misdemeanor

here, or course, not a felony, which is a significant different, but of course, whenever you have a beautiful -- look at that precious -- look at

that precious little boy, Lisa.

BLOOM: I know.

JACKSON: Whenever you have that, it`s certainly very difficult for, you know, a defense attorney to overcome. But the issue we have to keep in

mind is that it`s horrifically tragic, it shouldn`t have happened, it`s unfortunate that it happened. But we don`t know whether there`s any design

defect or any other defect on that vehicle that might have caused this, no matter what precautions he took. So before that`s examined and analyzed,

I`d be loathe to say what type of negligence he engaged in at this point.

BLOOM: Right. And just to be clear, so a misdemeanor means a crime the punishment for which is one year or less. So the maximum he`d be looking

at would be a year and a fine. He`s not looking at years and years and years in prison.

But Troy, we`re still looking at a gross negligence charge for him. Can you explain in plain English what that means?

TROY SLATEN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, this is basically vehicular manslaughter. There`s no intent. So yes, he did something potentially

negligent. He breached his duty to the community to park the car safely.

In order for prosecutors to successfully secure a conviction in this case, unless he pleads guilty to something, they`re going to have to show that he

broke the law with something with regard to the vehicle code. He didn`t set a parking brake when he was out of the car. He didn`t curb the tires,

which means turn them towards the curb. And then somebody died as a result. We know somebody died. We know he was driving. The issue is,

what law did he break in the meantime?

BLOOM: OK, so Misty, here`s how these cases typically go down. The defense says it`s a horrific thing that this 5-year-old child lost his

life, but there are tragedies in this world that are the result of accidents. And we cannot bring little Everett back, unfortunately. But

it`s not right to take the liberty of another man who clearly did not intend any harm to this child or to anyone else.

It was an accident. Who among us has not forgotten to put on the emergency brake, has left the car running? Who among us can say this never would

have happened to me? Isn`t that the defense argument here?

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. The defense is, it is a tragic accident, that no law was broken. Let`s not forget in order to

impose criminal liability, you have to show that there was a violation of the law under this statute.

And here we have the guy saying, I did secure the emergency brake. I did take those proper precautions, just unfortunately, and so tragically, those

precautions weren`t enough. And the defense will say, Listen, that is not enough to impose criminal liability in this case.

BLOOM: Yes, criminal liability isn`t always the answer in every case, in every tragedy. I think that`s the defense argument here. But what the

prosecution has going for it is, clearly, there was negligence. Does it rise to the level of gross negligence or is it just ordinary negligence? I

mean, that`s what the jury is going to have to decide if it gets that far.

JACKSON: And Lisa...

BLOOM: And the jury is going to hear the 911 calls. We have a snippet from one of the 911 calls. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was run over by a huge truck!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All these kids were playing!

911 OPERATOR: OK, ma`am, I`m still here. We`re dispatching some units. Are you with the child now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. It`s not good!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BLOOM: Oh! OK, so Troy, put on your prosecutor -- put on your prosecutor hat. You know, you`re going to take this case to a jury, or you`re going

to want to plea bargain it and spare the other children who were witnesses, spare the family of having to go through a grueling trial.

[20:10:120]SLATEN: Well, look, the community here is going to be running around with pitchforks, wanting blood, wanting justice for this tragic,

horrific accident, this beautiful 5-year-old life that was lost.

But that`s not what prosecutors are supposed to do. They`re supposed to apply the law equally to everybody. And look, I`d want some sort of jail

time in this case. If he did something wrong by not setting the parking brake, if he -- if it wasn`t a design defect, as the distinguished

counselor Jackson suggested, if it was his fault, then yes, he needs to do some jail time. And if he`s not willing to accept that, then this goes to

a jury.

BLOOM: So Derrick Lewis, I want to know a little bit more about this defendant, Mr. Suarez. Does he have any criminal history?

LEWIS: We could not find any criminal history for him here in Orange County. We don`t know if he`s been involved with the law in other places,

but as far as here in Orange County, North Carolina, there is no record of him having any criminal history in this location.

BLOOM: And we have a statement now from the attorney for Mr. Suarez. He says, "Regardless of any label that may be put on him, he is a kind and

wonderful young man with a good family and support system. He is literally physically devastated. He sits in jail right now, mournful and sad, not

for himself but for the tragic loss of a beautiful young life."

And this certainly is a tragedy all the way around. We`re going to continue to stay on top of this one.

Well, coming up next -- we`ve seen about a dozen food court fights and disturbances at malls across the country. What is going on? Well, now

police think they know the cause, and it`s going to have you shaking your head.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:05:50]BLOOM: Philadelphia police were ready last night when hundreds of teens showed up at a local mall. Cops were able to keep most of the

kids outside, but about 30 people who did get in started fighting in the food court again. And this time, one of the responding officers was

punched in the head. Oh, no. Four people were arrested.

This mall mayhem is something we`ve seen at several malls across the country all week. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cell phone cameras captured the commotion, the center of the mall erupting in chaos, terrified shoppers scrambling for the exits.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m still a little shaken up. I mean, I`ve never seen that many people, you know, inside brawling like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three ladies came running in our direction and screaming hysterically.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s going on at the mall?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is cell phone video taken inside the Roosevelt Field mall seconds after police say people here thought they heard the

sound of gunshots.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son fell down. They almost ran over him. It was pretty intense, like a commotion, like a horde, like, they all came running

from the cafeteria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLOOM: Oh, no. No, no. This really burns me up! This should not be going on. This is a dangerous situation. People can get hurt.

Dr. Cheryl Arutt is forensic psychologist and she joins me now from Los Angeles. OK, Cheryl, what is going on here?

CHERYL ARUTT, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Lisa, I think that when you have one dog, it`s more likely to bark at you. When you have a whole pack

of dogs, that`s when you`re most likely to be attacked.

When we have a group of people who get together, something happens. There`s a mob mentality where people will get disinhibited and will do

things that they wouldn`t normally do. They`re more likely to be aggressive. They`re more likely to take risks.

And I think until recently, self-control was really considered to be a good thing, to not act out your aggressive impulses. But I think more and more,

this is becoming more permissible. The norms are kind of shifting, and the kids are picking up on it.

BLOOM: OK, but Cheryl, OK, first of all, people always say, the younger generation, you know, they`re not as controlled and wonderful as we were

when we were kids. But certainly, there were, you know, gangs of kids when we were kids, going back to "West Side Story" and earlier, right, that

young people, I agree with you, who have too much time on their hands tend to get into trouble.

And that`s my angle on this, right, because I`ve got a teenager at home. I`ve got two grown children, and I am a firm believer in teenagers should

be busy.

And frankly, I think they have too long of a time for winter break. And I know that`s not going to endear me with most young people who are listening

to this program. And they should have the week off between Christmas and New Year and it`s Hannukah week. These should have this week of, but many

times, they have three weeks off, four weeks off. They don`t have anything to do. They`re not assigned a book to read. That`s not a long enough time

where they can really get a job, even if jobs were available.

So they just have nothing to do, and you know, idle hands are the devil`s workshop, right, Cheryl?

ARUTT: That`s right. Your kids have turned out pretty good, I have to say.

BLOOM: That`s because I kept them busy!

(LAUGHTER)

ARUTT: I know. And I think social media is part of this, too, because we used to have to call each other and arrange to meet at certain places, and

you can have a hashtag and you can have a bunch of people have something go viral and reach so many more people so much faster than we used to able to

do. And so I think there is a tool to be able to reach many people very quickly, and that`s also part of being able to get people in one spot

and...

(CROSSTALK)

BLOOM: And that`s what we`re hearing, is that this is all set up on Snapchat, right? So they`re all deciding to meet at the mall on Snapchat.

Parents are dropping them off or they`re just getting there on the bus, they`re getting there on their own.

And listen, teenagers, you know, they`re 16, 17, 18 years old. You`re not going to be watching them every minute of the day. I get that. But I`m

taking away their devices if they`re acting up like this. I mean, guess what? It`s a privilege. Mom and Dad are paying for it. I`m yanking that

way (ph) out of their hand. I`m taking away their laptop. I`m locking it up if they`re behaving this way.

Misty Marris, let me bring you back in and let`s talk about the legal angle. I mean, should these young people be charged for brawling in the

mall?

[20:20:04]MARRIS: Absolutely. We have disorderly conduct, assault. They absolutely should be charged. And to the extent that you have

conspirators, they should be charged to the full extent of the law.

You have to set boundaries and you have to show that there`s repercussions to these actions. Otherwise, you`re going to see this continued social

media, you know, presence (ph) and this type of act over and over again in public places, which is just dangerous to the people involved and

passersby.

BLOOM: Yes, and obviously, parenting is a big part of this. And I recognize that parents have to work and it`s winter break and it`s not

easy. You know, I`m here working. I got a kid home right now. Like, I get it. People, you know, are strapped. But parenting I think is a big

part of this.

Joey Jackson, should the parents be held accountable, for example, for property damage at the mall being, you know, caused by a teenager?

JACKSON: Legally, that`s problematic, Lisa. And let me say this. As much as you are loved in the Jackson household, you just lost a fan as a result

of suggesting that Christmas break should somehow be shortened.

BLOOM: Sorry!

JACKSON: My son would be livid at that.

BLOOM: Well...

JACKSON: But the reality is, is that we just have to find constructive things for children to do, no matter what the timeframe is, and they need

to be supervised. So holding parents accountable from a legal perspective for the damage kids so, that`s another matter. And also, if I might say,

we need to be handing children books, not prison sentences!

BLOOM: Yes! Yes!

JACKSON: In the event that a child does something, they hurt someone, yes, we should prosecute them in a juvenile court which is focused on

rehabilitation. But we shouldn`t be arresting people for screaming in malls and yelling in malls. We should be supervising and working with

(INAUDIBLE)

BLOOM: Not for screaming and yelling, but for throwing punches, for punching a cop, for example, I mean, that`s not...

JACKSON: There were some, Lisa...

BLOOM: That`s not acceptable. And listen...

JACKSON: Yes.

BLOOM: Listen, you tell your kids, if you`re reading a book a week, if you`re doing some community service, if you`re helping Mom and Dad around

the house, then I`m going to let you have your winter break.

JACKSON: Amen to that.

BLOOM: But if you`re out there fooling around and causing trouble, and you know, getting in trouble with your friends and causing problems for local

law enforcement, you know, that`s not OK with me and you have too much time on your hands.

And so I do blame the kids, but I also blame the parents because they need to be reading. And by the way, I have a book called "Think" and a book

called "Swagger," with a long list at the end for great books for teenagers that teenagers love. So check that out...

JACKSON: If you think, Lisa...

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: ... you can have swagger. So there you go. Love the books.

BLOOM: That`s my book for -- oh thank you.

Well, coming up next -- the Amazon Echo was a must have on a lot of people`s wish lists this holiday season. But guess what? Now the wireless

speaker and microphone is at the center of a murder case, and Amazon is not cooperating.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:26:36]BLOOM: Prosecutors in Oregon are pushing forward with new charges against seven people involved in a standoff at a federal wildlife

refuge. According to reports, they will be tried on trespassing and tampering with vehicles and equipment on the site charges. If convicted on

the misdemeanor charges, they would have to forfeit any firearms or ammunition used while committing the offense. The seven are slated to go

on trial in February.

That standoff is one of the top 10 crime and justice stories of the year. Here`s Jean Casarez.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are not going anywhere. We`re here to do a job.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A 41-day occupation at a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon ended when four remaining protesters

finally surrendered. One of the leading occupiers was killed the month before, heightening tensions, the armed occupiers frustrated with the feds

over land right issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The world`s most wanted drug lord, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, captured.

CASAREZ: Mexican navy special forces captured notorious drug kingpin Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman in a pre-dawn raid. Six months earlier, he broke

out of a Mexican prison through a hole in his shower stall that led to a tunnel. This was his second escape.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Heroin is the devil.

CASAREZ: Law enforcement facing a national heroin epidemic, Ohio police posting this picture to demonstrate the devastating impact on families.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People do not understand what this drug is doing and how it affects families overall, and the little kids that get caught up in

this.

CASAREZ: And the video of a couple overdosing going viral.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I found myself unable to put the heroin down. It`s devastation. It`s (INAUDIBLE) anguish.

CASAREZ: The addiction beginning for some with prescription drugs, the crisis made even worse this year by deadlier drugs. 2016 showed an

increase in fentanyl-related deaths and overdoses.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We could make a billion gun arrests a year, and it`s not going the make a difference.

CASAREZ: More than 700 homicides in Chicago as of December, the worst year for murders in two decades. There are an average of 82 shootings per week.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "On that morning, all that I was told was that I had been found behind a dumpster potentially penetrated by a stranger."

CASAREZ: Stanford swimmer Brock Turner was released from prison after three months. He was convicted of sexually assaulting an unconscious

woman. The move angered the public, and the victim`s heart-wrenching statement seen by millions.

Apple refuses to comply with a California judge`s order to help the FBI retrieve information from the iPhone of San Bernardino gunman Sayed Farook.

The phone was unlocked by a third party, but Apple`s refusal set a precedent for future cases that tech companies asserting their

constitutional rights may refuse to comply with a court`s subpoena power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s been an explosion that is taking place in the Chelsea neighborhood in Manhattan.

CASAREZ: The act of a lone wolf terrorist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody get off the street!

CASAREZ: Twenty-nine injured, no one was killed. Two other devices found in New Jersey, this one detonated by the bomb squad. Twenty-eight-year-old

Ahmad Khan Rahimi was captured after a shootout days later with police in New Jersey.

[20:30:10] In February, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, the outspoken conservative voice, the longest serving justice died in his

sleep. Who would appoint his replacement and what impact will that have became front page news in this election year. President Obama`s attempt to

replace him, blocked by Republicans. The next justice will be appointed by president-elect Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told him to get his hands up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please don`t tell me he`s dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Police shootings and race relations dominated the conversation reaching a crescendo for four days in July.

Alton sterling shot by police in Louisiana, Philando Castile shot by police in Minnesota. Both died from their wounds.

And then in Dallas in the evening hours of July 8, 12 police officers shot, five killed during protest as a gunman ambushed police. It ended when a

bomb squad robot killed the gunman after negotiations failed.

DAVID BROWN, FORMER CHIEF OF THE DALLS POLICE DEPARTMENT: This must stop, this divisiveness between our police and our citizens.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): It was the deadliest single incident for U.S. law enforcement since 9/11. Other shootings of and by police officers

would follow, reigniting the national debate about law enforcement in the U.S.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can hear the shotguns closer and I look over and he shoots the girl next to me. And I`m just there laying down I`m thinking I`m

next. I`m dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): The deadliest mass shooting in America, 49 killed, 53 wounded during a gunman`s rampage inside Orlando`s Pulse

nightclub in June. Killer Omar Mateen telling police he was a soldier of ISIS, was killed after a three-hour standoff with police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most of the victims who died were under the age of 40, young men and women full of dreams and full of plans.

[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLOOM: Amazon is refusing a prosecutor`s demand to turn over information from a murder suspect`s wireless device, citing privacy concerns. And now

that suspect`s Amazon Echo has become a key part of a murder case.

In November of 2015, Victor Collins, a former Georgia cop, was found dead in the hot tub of 31-year-old James Bates. Bates claims that Collins` death

was an accident, but police in Benton, Arkansas disagree, and he was charged with murder. So someone in the house recalled music playing on that

device because there`s a speaker in it.

So prosecutors have tried multiple times to obtain the data from the Echo but so far, Amazon is saying no and they are not complying. I want to first

go to CNN`s Martin Savidge who was following the story. OK, Martin, I understand why the prosecution wants as much as information as they can get

to try to pull apart the timeline of this defendant. What is Amazon saying as to why they don`t want to release the information?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Amazon has put out a number of different statements. They wouldn`t go in camera but they have said pretty

much that Amazon will not release customer information without a valid or being given a legal demand. But there is another statement that they have

released and perhaps is even more insightful to their opposition. They say Amazon objects to overbroad or otherwise inappropriate demands as a matter

of course.

Being a third party provider here, where they would get private information coming from a person`s home, obviously they believe they have reason they

have to be very, very careful here and they would guard against what they might consider police going on just some sort of fishing expedition.

BLOOM: Right.

SAVIDGE: In other words, using the technology to eavesdrop on a home without a clear understanding of whether that device could have actually

heard anything that was pertinent.

BLOOM: Well, that is the question. So listen, as a trial lawyer myself who sends out document requests and subpoenas all the time, this is what we

call a boilerplate response, which is essentially we`re not going to give you anything until a judge requires it and you have to narrow it and you

have to be specific.

So this is just sort of a first response from Amazon in my opinion saying we`re not going to do it, but you can keep trying and maybe you can get a

judge to order it. But Martin, I understand that in this case there`s actually other smart device data that may be helping the prosecution,

especially regarding water usage. What do you know about that?

SAVIDGE: Well, it turns out that the man who is the suspect in this case, James Bates, is the homeowner here. And like many people, he loves gadgets

and he had a number of smart devices around his home that authorities are only just now beginning to look into. Echo is one of them.

He also had a smart water meter. Now, that`s not something he installed. It`s something the water department installed that it allows for you to get

very precise measurements at very specific times for water usage. And it appears that during the suspect hours here -- this investigation, there is

what the police consider a significant use of water as if somebody might have been cleaning up something.

The defense attorney says it is not an unusual amount of water, but there again, another indication of where modern technology is being used perhaps

against the person in their home own.

BLOOM: Yes, I kind of love that, though, that they`re able to say, "gee, at 1:00 a.m. or 2:00 a.m. or 3:00 a.m., a lot of water was being used by

this guy in the backyard potentially to sort of try to clean up after a murder took place there.

Ari Zoldan is the CEO of Quantum Networks and a technology analyst and boy, do we need you. Thank you for joining me today from New York. So, I got the

Amazon Echo for my husband for a Hanukkah present. In fact, I got him seven of them. They`re in every room. They`re all over the house. He installed

it. He loves it. He says Alexa -- I think he talks to Alexa more than he talks to me, but you know, I guess that is OK.

[20:40:02] But the first thing I wondered about was the eavesdropping potential because it`s always on and it has those microphones. I mean, is

it always listening to me?

ARI ZOLDAN, CEO, QUANTUM NETWORKS: OK, so first of all, Happy Hanukkah to you as always (ph) Lisa, and I`m sure your husband gives you a lot of

attention, as well.

(LAUGHTER)

ZOLDAN: So, in terms of the device, you know, is it always on? The answer is yes and no, which is a bit of a complicated question because you need to

actually wake up the device by saying hey, Amazon --

BLOOM: Alexa.

ZOLDAN: -- or hey, Alexa. And then the device opens up and it starts hearing some of the things that you`re saying. So the answer is yes, it is

a no. It`s somewhere in between. And that`s what making this case very challenging and actually within the entire technology community is about

whether these devices are actually taking in the data --

BLOOM: Yes.

ZOLDAN: -- being recorded, which they are, and then figuring out, hey, where do you draw the line between privacy and not privacy?

BLOOM: OK. But Ari, so when I say Alexa, what`s the weather like today? Alexa, play me a Top 40. Alexa, volume up, volume down. And all of that is

really cool and fun. But at least when I say Alexa and a little blue light goes on and now she`s listening, that information is being recorded. In

other words, is there a record somewhere that I asked Alexa at 5:30 to play a Top 40 station?

ZOLDAN: There is. There`s a record of every single moment, every single -- Lisa, you speak into that machine, it does get recorded and it get sent up

to the cloud.

BLOOM: Right.

ZOLDAN: And the purpose is for them to read -- for Amazon to be able to read your voice, to understand your tone and to be able adapt better to

your personality.

BLOOM: OK. Well, and also so they can try to sell me stuff, which I get that`s how it works.

ZOLDAN: Correct.

BLOOM: OK, to Troy Slayten, former prosecutor, you can see how useful this information would be because the defendant in this case has a timeline and

he says he was sleeping during the night when this murder took place. If this information from Amazon shows that he`s playing music, asking

questions, turning on and off the lights, that`s very helpful to the prosecutor, right?

SLATEN: Absolutely Lisa. As a prosecutor, even just poking holes in what the defendant says could be very helpful. It`s used for what`s called

impeachment, showing that the person is a liar. And if they`re lying about something like this, that could be consciousness of guilt.

So, if he says that he was sound asleep at 1:00 in the morning but it turns out based on the smart water meter that he was using an excessive amount of

water and according to Alexa, he was turning on and off the lights or requesting music, and according to the smart electric meter, he was

starting the washer and dryer, that could just show that he was lying and therefore conscious that he was guilty.

BLOOM: Exactly. And Joey Jackson, I know the prosecutors want to say, Alexa, who committed this murder? Alexa, what was going on that night? But

on the defense side, are there legitimate privacy issues?

JACKSON: There are extreme privacy issues and I would hope that consistent with what Apple in a horrific terrorist attack involving San Bernardino

where Apple said, we`re not giving you this terrorist`s iPhone. I would hope, you know, that what Amazon does is they fight this so you don`t give

out this information. Think about the implications of this for one second, Lisa, one second.

Now, we all know that sometimes the vices of unintended consequences and of course it ners to be awoken, right. You need to wake it up by saying Alexa,

do this, Alexa, do that. What happens if it catches unintentionally other things that go on in our home? So now the police can serve a warrant and

that device becomes an extension of law enforcement?

This is going to have a chilling effect and I think the more technology expands, the more we`re going to have these complex issues and people are

going to stay away from technology if they know it`s going to come back to bury them when they say thinking of privacy in their home.

BLOOM: Either way, because we all know we have no privacy anymore. We`re all buying these things like crazy. I bought them because it was the

hottest --

JACKSON: You must have seven, I can`t believe this.

BLOOM: This was the hottest holiday item. No, I`m serious. I don`t think the tech world has to worry that people are going to stop buying the

devices. I do think there`s a privacy issue here, but we also have to balance it against the rights of this victim and his family to know what

happened.

And also we want to make sure we have the right guy. Maybe if he`s innocent this is going to help exonerate him. Maybe if he`s guilty and he told the

whole story to law enforcement, that can be disproved or we want to know that too.

All right, up next, no witnesses, convict church shooter Dylann Roof, will not be calling anyone to help save him from a death sentence, but should

the court allow him to make that call?

[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLOOM: Dylann Roof was in court today ahead of the start of the penalty phase of his trial where a panel will vote to sentence him either to death

penalty or life in prison without parole. Those are the only two options. He told the judge he plans to act as his own lawyer when that phase begins

next week. But Dylan Roof also says he won`t call any witnesses nor will he present any evidence to attempt to spare his own life. Joining me again,

Troy Slaten, Joey Jackson and Misty Marris.

All right, Misty to you, we always say you have a right to represent yourself, but if you do, you have a fool for a lawyer. In this case, I`ve

got to wonder, is this young man trying to do suicide by court? Is he just throwing in the towel and maybe hoping he gets the death penalty?

MARRIS: Well, it`s very interesting, and very often, with people that are paranoid schizophrenics, you`ll see that they say I do not have any mental

problems. And there`s been speculation at this case that`s the reason why he`s decided to represent himself.

He does not want what he thinks is his message to be tainted by the fact that there might be some mental incapacity here, which you know, given the

circumstances of this case, he`s going to be in prison for the rest of his life or he`s going to have the death penalty.

[20:50:01] BLOOM: Right. He`s going to die in prison one way or the other.

MARRIS: Right.

BLOOM: But Joey Jackson, I mean this young man is overtly racist killer, here the death penalty phase is going to come right after the holidays.

He`s not going to have an attorney. I mean is there any possibility that the jury may take some kind of pity on him and spare his life by this

bizarre strategy of his?

JACKSON: Hey, you know Lisa, of course anything`s possible, but I think it`s highly unlikely. I mean on the issue of self-representation, for 40

years, you have it. You know, just so people understand if you want to represent yourself and you`re confident too, the court has to permit it.

At the same time, the aggravating factors which are those factors that justify the death penalty here are just so compelling, the heinousness, the

viciousness, the multiple defendants, the planning, the preparation, to getting defendants when they were so vulnerable when they were doing a

scripture.

And so look, mitigation, whether he represents himself, whether you represent him, Lisa, whether the best attorneys in the universe represent

him, I don`t know at the end of the day if it really, as a practical matter, matters. It`s just so horrible what he did, that if any case

deserved and justified death, this would be the case.

BLOOM: I agree with you, and I`m anti-death penalty in all cases, but this is the case that really challenges people like me when you know the facts

of this case and how just absolutely horrendous it was, taking lives of people in a church. People who took him in and prayed with him.

Troy Slayten, can he potentially appeal if he gets convicted -- when he`s convicted. If the death penalty is imposed on the grounds that he had an

incompetent lawyer, himself?

SLAYTEN: Well, that certainly would be an argument. If I was the judge presiding over the case, in order to allow him to represent himself during

this penalty phase, I would want him to waive such an appeal. I`d want him to waive the argument that his own defense of himself, his own

representation was ineffective to avoid that exact type of appeal in the future.

BLOOM: Well, I think we`ll all be glad when the Dylann Roof case is over and done with.

And coming up next, parents furious after sending their pre-teen daughter on a flight alone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA DUNN, MOTHER OF CHILD LEFT ALONE AT AIRPORT: I sat on hold with them for 30 minutes and they aid we`re calling customer service to see if we can

find her. I said, I know where she is but you guys don`t and that`s a problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLOOM: Even more outrageous, they spent hundreds of dollars on a ticket to prevent it from happening. How United Airlines is responding, next.

[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLOOM: An Iowa family is outraged with United Airlines after their 12- year-old daughter was left alone at a Houston airport. They had paid $300 to have an employee stay with her, as she waited for her grandmother. The

child says the employee just left her and she was all alone for about 15 minutes until grandma tracked her down. The girl`s mom describes how they

ended up connecting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUNN: She goes into the airport and she`s looking all over. She finally finds, she goes to the gate, because they let her through security, right.

She gives her information and they let her through security. She goes through the gate. She finally opens up these doors and finds her in a hall

by herself. She said, "Grandma, I`m so happy to see you. I`ve been here for 15 minutes."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLOOM: Well, thankfully she is safe, and United Airlines, to their credit, they have apologized to the family. They say that they are "continuing to

review the situation to ensure that we provide exceptional service to each of our customers." But this isn`t the first time we`ve heard about airlines

having trouble keeping up with their young passengers.

So Misty, let me got at to you, you know, I would say that airlines are not babysitters. However, these folks actually paid extra money to have an

unaccompanied minor -- if it`s anything like my kids when they traveled as unaccompanied minors, they get a little pendant around their neck with

their little packet, and part of what you`re paying extra for is for the flight attendant to walk them off and deliver her into grandma`s arms. So,

I think they have a right to be upset, do you?

MARRIS: Well, they have a right to be upset. First of all airlines are not guarantors of safety, whether or not you`re part of this program or not.

But in this particular case, clearly the airline deviated from what their procedures and protocols were, which was to escort this minor to her

grandmother.

However, from a legal perspective, there`s really no civil remedy here because there is no thank God, no damage to the girl.

BLOOM: Right.

MARRIS: However, they should probably demand a refund. I`d get that $300 back.

(LAUGHTER)

BLOOM: Yes, that`s a good one.

MARRIS: Right.

BLOOM: Hey Joey, let`s talk a bigger picture here. How young is too young to travel alone in your view?

JACKSON: Well, listen, according to this airline, it`s from 5 to 15. I don`t even think I`d be comfortable 5, 6, 7, 8, maybe 9 or 10 I would allow

at that point my child to -- he actually flew at about 10 I think or 11, but his grandparents were waiting for him on the other end.

But this is outrageous, and Misty, in terms of the damages, the damages are to the parents. Intentional -- well, not intentional, maybe negligent

infliction of emotional distress. This is extreme. This is outrageous and it could have met with horrific consequences if something happened to the

most precious commodity of the parent, their child.

BLOOM: Wow, look at Joey, going to town.

MARRIS: But nothing did -- nothing did. But it seems solid, Joey.

BLOOM: If your kid is travelling alone and lots of kids do, they need to have a cell phone. A little girl should have called grandma immediately.

She shouldn`t be wandering around the airport on her own. But I got to say, I think airports are actually pretty safe places because there`s so much

security there.

And we certainly hope that everybody is going to be safe in the future whether they`re unaccompanied minors, whether they are grownups or even

lawyers making strong arguments about emotional distress. Thanks you all for joining me today and thank you at home for watching.

[21:00:00] I`m Lisa bloom. I am in for Ashleigh Banfield. And I will see you right back here tomorrow night at 8:00 for another edition of PRIMETIME

JUSTICE. "FORENSIC FILES" starts right now.

END