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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Family Missing, Home Burned to the Ground; Bad Teens Versus Adults; The Hubbard, Oregon House Fire Were Intentionally Set; Was Video of Twins With The Dresser Falling On Top Of Them Fake? Aired 8-9p ET

Aired January 04, 2017 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[20:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST (voice-over): A beautiful family of five is missing after a deadly inferno swallows their farm home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, wow, that`s -- wow.

BANFIELD: But where is the family? And how does an accidental fire start in three different buildings?

She`s half his size and maybe half his age. A teenage girl is no match for a body-slamming cop who tried to break up a fight. But are teenagers half

the problem? You won`t believe the things they say and do right in the face of adults.

Don`t mess with Texas or its grannies!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I tried to kill him.

BANFIELD: A burglar meets the business end of a .38-caliber pistol and a fiery senior not afraid to shoot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anybody break in on me, I`m going to kill `em.

BANFIELD: He was part of a devilish brotherly duo who famously murdered their parents in a Beverly Hills bloodbath.

LYLE MENENDEZ, CONVICTED OF MURDERING PARENTS: A tremendous amount of shots were fired all over the room.

BANFIELD: Now for the first time ever, Lyle Menendez talks.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Hello, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to PRIMETIME JUSTICE.

There is a bizarre and fiery mystery playing out in a dark and rural corner of Oregon tonight. The embers are still smoldering on a family`s farmhouse

after an overnight inferno gutted their happy home. But the family that lives there is nowhere to be found.

Somebody spotted the flames late into the night, the home completely engulfed. And strangely, two other buildings on the property were also

ablaze. And in a very strange twist, a body was found charred inside the home, but no one knows if it is one of the five family members missing.

Erin (ph) and Keith (ph) Kroeker lived there with their twin 10-year-old boys and a 7-year-old daughter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I look out the dining room window, and I see this just giant, like, bright light. And I`m just, like, What`s that? And I look

out the window and say, There`s a fire! And we just begin to realize that there`s a fire over there, and we are hoping that they`re OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re really sweet. They always wave to us. They brought us cookies for, you know, Christmas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Lieutenant Chris Baldridge is the public information officer for the Marion County sheriff`s office in Hubbard, Oregon. He joins me live

now. Lieutenant, thank you so much for being here. Are you any closer to figuring out where this family is tonight?

LT. CHRIS BALDRIDGE, MARION COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE (VIA TELEPHONE (via telephone): Our investigators have been out here since early this morning

and through the day. Right now, what we`re fighting or up against is just a large amount of debris. And then we also are having quite a cold spell

here. And so because of the fire suppression efforts, which went on through the night last night, a lot of our evidence and that debris

actually ended up freezing to the ground.

And so it`s been a very slow process. We are making headway. And I don`t have a lot of new information. What I can confirm for you is we still have

one deceased individual which we have recovered from the residence, and we`ll continue our efforts until we can`t go anymore this evening, and then

begin again tomorrow.

BANFIELD: So I guess the question, Lieutenant, is it seems awfully mysterious there`s only one body in the house. Are you convinced that

there aren`t four more bodies in this house? It just seems as though we`re not hearing about other victims.

BALDRIDGE: Right. So I will be convinced when we have gone through that entire house. Like I said, it`s a very, very slow process. To describe it

to you, is we actually have people with hand shovels picking things by hand and sifting things through screens. So you can imagine one house alone,

that burns a vast amount of debris, and we`re actually dealing with three separate structures.

BANFIELD: I`m going to get to the three structures in a moment because it was very strange when we heard that the fire had started in three separate

structures. And one of them 100 feet away, and that seemed odd.

But I do want to read something from the sheriff`s office, you know, from your office, releasing this press release. Partly (ph), in quote, "Today,

investigators will begin the task of sifting through debris to determine what took place during yesterday`s fire."

But I expected to see you putting out a release saying, to determine if there are victims inside. So there just seems to be something very strange

about this story. Do you think, sir, it`s possible that the family is missing and that the body you found inside is someone else?

BALDRIDGE: I think I would be drawing conclusions at that point, and that`s something I`m just not willing to do. I`m going to rely on the

evidence that the investigators provide to me and then release information based on that.

[20:05:07]BANFIELD: And I don`t know your business, but I do know there`s a criminal investigation, and I thought it seemed strange because to me, it

seemed it was a fire investigation. It just happened. But it is a criminal investigation, isn`t it?

BALDRIDGE: It certainly is an investigation at this point. You know, the fact that we have three separate fires in three separate buildings and a

deceased individual certainly makes this suspicious. And so that`s why we bring out -- break out all the stops and bring out all the investigators so

that we make sure that we serve the person who died in this fire and we serve them well.

BANFIELD: And the other bit of information you touched on a moment ago, and it did sound curious, was that not only was this house engulfed in

flames but sort of a large woodshed, I mean, really a shop building was 100 feet away from the main house. The garage was about 30 feet away. And

they were also on fire. Were these fires started separately, or did the 20-mile-an-hour winds that night cause embers to, you know, catch the other

buildings on fire?

BALDRIDGE: So again, that`s why we have these specialized investigators here on the ground now, like ATF, our Oregon state fire marshals office and

other specialized investigators from the state police. They`re assisting us so that they can give us the exact cause of those three fires.

BANFIELD: But Lieutenant, what does your gut tell you? It`s odd to see three buildings. The one that`s 100 feet away was fully engulfed, but the

one that was 30 feet away, the garage, was just starting.

BALDRIDGE: Again, I don`t work on gut feelings. I`m going to let the evidence speak for it, and as soon as I have good quality information,

that`s the information I will put out.

BANFIELD: OK, I want to play for a moment a comment from Jackie Kroeker, who is the mother of the husband in this family. She fully expects them to

drive up at any moment, and this is heartbreaking to hear. But she also gives you a feeling for who this family is. Have a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JACKIE KROEKER, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING FAMILY: I know that they were strong in their church. I do not know of one person anywhere that disliked

any member of the family. They were loved by all. We`re devastated. I would hope and pray that they come driving up and they`ve just been gone.

That`s what I`m going to believe until I know otherwise.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Robert Rowe is a fire expert and the CEO of Pyro Company, joins me from Los Angeles. Robert, your gut feeling on this? Thirty degrees

outside, 20-mile-an-hour winds, three separate structures on fire. You heard me say it. The garage is 30 feet away. The fire was only just

starting. The shed, that big work building, was 100 feet away, fully engulfed, as was the house.

Does that tick off any strange spidey senses for you?

ROBERT ROWE, FIRE EXPERT: Well, I think the investigator stated it well. I mean, it`s hard to speculate on how a fire travels until you actually

look at the fire itself and look at the fire patterns and look at the direction of wind that night. There`s a lot of factors that investigators

have to look at before they conclude. I think he was spot on by stating that he wasn`t going to go with gut feelings. He was going to go with the

evidence that`s presented. So I do agree with him.

BANFIELD: Amen to that. And it is early in the investigation. It is very odd that they found one body. They`re not saying whether it`s an adult,

whether it`s a child, whether it`s male or female. But from my experience, you can at least often tell if it`s a child or an adult.

ROWE: In a lot of cases, you can. It just depends on the degree of damage to the body itself and just the intensity of the fire. That is critical in

trying to make a determination on identifying victims in a fire.

BANFIELD: Do you think 20-mile-an-hour winds is enough to maybe cause an ember to cause an entire shop building to be fully engulfed but a garage 30

feet away not to be?

ROWE: Well, the wind is a factor, but we still have to take into consideration materials that were used to build these structures. I mean,

was it unprotected wood? You know, was it vinyl siding? There`s all kinds of factors that we have to consider when we look at fire spread and the

materials that these buildings are built of. So again, it`s speculating. But yes, wind can blow embers. I mean, there`s no question about that.

BANFIELD: Christine Grillo, Danny Cevallos and Joey Jackson are with me, as well. Real quickly, Joey -- they got a warrant. They got a warrant to

look into that garage. I thought firefighters can go into any building that`s on fire without a warrant.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. I think they`re preserving in an exercise of caution, in the event that it does turn criminal, there`s no

issues with that. And of course, at this point, it could be the whole family is dead in there. We don`t know, or it could be that...

BANFIELD: But they didn`t say they`re looking for bodies or victims. They said they`re looking for how it started. That seems very strange to me.

JACKSON: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: We`re going to keep on this story, guys, and when we get more information -- again, it`s only just (INAUDIBLE) beginning -- we`re

certainly going to pass it on.

I want to take you back for a moment to 1989, horrific Beverly Hills murder, Jose and Kitty Menendez. This was a story that gripped the nation.

It sent their sons, Lyle and Erik Menendez, to prison for life.

[20:10:00]And now as part of an HLN original series, "How it Really Happened," after decades of silence, Lyle Menendez is speaking out to our

Chris Cuomo. He told Chris that there was sexual abuse going on in the home, and that on the night of the murders, he and his brother Erik felt

threatened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LYLE MENENDEZ, CONVICTED OF KILLING PARENTS: You have to understand my father was a very successful media executive, very high-profile media

executive. There was no way he was going to go through a child molestation trial.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN: Take me to that night.

MENENDEZ: The guns were already in the house. They were there in case something happened in the house.

CUOMO: What did you do when you walked into that room with your brother with the two weapons? What did you see when you entered the room?

MENENDEZ: Yes. I mean, that part of it is obviously traumatic and difficult to -- I can`t really parse (ph). It was chaotic. It was a dark

room, and my father was standing. And it was just a deafening, horrific few moments of my life that come back to me all the time.

CUOMO: I understand. I understand the trauma of it. But I`m just saying, for people`s understanding of your state of mind, when you went into that

room, did you see your father, or your father and mother, as in a position to attack you, or were they just sitting there and watching TV?

MENENDEZ: I know that that`s a narrative out there, they were watching TV, but that`s not accurate. But the room was pitch dark, and there was a TV

on.

CUOMO: You didn`t sense that you were being attacked when you came in the room, but you decided to shoot anyway?

MENENDEZ: I didn`t know what was going to happen in the room. We definitely fired the instant we entered the room, and I think that`s part

of the reason that the police were saying the crime scene was so chaotic. A tremendous amount of shots were fired all over the room, so it was a

horrific experience.

CUOMO: Why did you feel the need to fire that many times, to exit and reload, as well as to kill your mother and not just your father?

MENENDEZ: Once you`re in a panic, enraged panic (INAUDIBLE) once you`re in that place, I don`t -- I think -- you end up using every shell you have and

firing way more than you need to. I -- I just -- I think I would have kept firing until I didn`t have anything left to fire (INAUDIBLE) in that place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Lyle Menendez 28 years later. Be sure to watch "How it Really Happened" with the Menendez murders, Friday, January 27th, 9:00 PM, right

here on HLN.

In high school halls, shopping malls, actually everywhere, it seems, it seems that teenagers are really acting out. They`re acting up, and it`s

happening a lot. Is there something bigger going on here?

And then, apparently, there is no age limit on bravery. A Texas grandmother stood up to an armed intruder, and she won the battle. And

when you see her waving her gun, you`re going to see how scared that robber must have been. Coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:17:05]BANFIELD: Remember back in the day when mouthing off to a teacher would mean a ticket to the principal`s office? It might even mean

a strap or a paddle. You`re not in Kansas anymore. That has not happened in decades, and kids today know it.

And it may actually be the reason that we`re seeing more and more videos of kids behaving badly, appallingly, actually. Adults, videos are showing

them blowing their stacks trying to contain those kids.

I want to take, for instance, a video that went viral today in North Carolina, a school resource officer body-slamming a 15-year-old girl to the

floor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The girl is just 100 pounds. She`s clearly dazed when she was eventually pulled to her feet. Two female students had been violently

fighting just before the incident. Police say that officer had been responding to it.

But let me be the first to say this is not the only video like this to make the rounds. Schools have been become very violent and aggressive places

with kids in the classroom and in the hallways doing things that you could not imagine. You might not even believe it when we tell you about it.

And it certainly begs the question, have teachers and principals and police and adults in general become powerless at the mercy of teenagers who seem

to be getting the upper hand both physically and maybe even legally?

Michael Christian is a PRIMETIME producer who`s been working this story all day and processing the video. Michael, that video we just saw -- there is

a pre-video to it. And "The Raleigh News and Observer" Web site posted it. It shows what happened before, the fight that went on before that body

slamming, two girls clearly getting to it, violently attacking each other.

Neither one of those two is actually the kid who was body slammed, but it appears she might have been somewhere in that video and in that melee

because ultimately, that video ends up on her and the body-slam. What`s the back story here?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, PRIMETIME JUSTICE PRODUCER: That`s right, Ashleigh. This is an absolutely vicious fight. I certainly would not want to be in

the middle of it. But these two girls, high school girls, are fighting. And it`s believed that the girl who was body-slammed may be the sister of

one of the other two girls who were fighting. She may have intruded into this, injected herself trying to break it up.

BANFIELD: What happened to the officer?

CHRISTIAN: He has been put on paid administrative leave while the investigation continues into this.

BANFIELD: OK. And we`re also looking at a video that came across our wire service today in Philadelphia. It`s of a police officer who -- a female

police officer who was trying to break up a fight. And ultimately, that teenage girl, 16 years old, who`s getting pummeled by her -- that teenage

girl admitted to having been interfering with the officers as they were attempting to arrest individuals engaged in fights.

[20:20:00]The teenage girl admitted to slapping the officer in the face. She also admitted -- both of them, in fact, while they were engaged in this

brouhaha, to punching each other. Again, it`s a 16-year-old girl and a police officer. What`s happened to the police officer in this story,

Michael?

CHRISTIAN: She has been removed, Ashleigh, from street duty in Philadelphia, and internal affairs is investigating this incident.

BANFIELD: But that 16-year-old girl assaulted her and admitted to having assaulted her.

CHRISTIAN: They both admit that they punched each other, but at this point, there are no plans to bring any criminal charges against this girl.

BANFIELD: OK. Let me go back about two years ago. I think we all remember the video of a 14-year-old bikini-clad girl who was at a pool

party, hundreds of kids scattering all throughout the neighborhood, a police officer, many of his colleagues responding. Things got crazy. He

body-slams her to the ground, other people surrounding. He brings out a gun because two kids had charged him.

Ultimately, four days after all of this, he resigned. The police department said he had not done the right thing. They did not support his

actions.

Watch this. There you go. She`s 14, this one.

A year later, though, he wasn`t indicted for anything. And by all accounts, the neighborhood said these teenagers had gone wild in the

neighborhood, that they were charging at the police, threatening the police, hurling insults at them, as well. Again, the police did not

condone this officer`s behavior, and he resigned. But now she is suing, Michael.

CHRISTIAN: That`s right. You know, the McKinney chief of police called this officer`s actions outrageous and said that he was out of control. As

you said, he did resign shortly after.

But there is -- even though there were no criminal charges, there is a federal lawsuit now. This young woman is claiming that there was excessive

force used, false arrest, negligence, and assault and battery. And she is asking for $5 million.

BANFIELD: From the city of McKinney, the police department, and the guy, the officer?

CHRISTIAN: Correct, those three.

BANFIELD: $5 million.

CHRISTIAN: Yes.

BANFIELD: Federal case.

CHRISTIAN: Yes.

BANFIELD: OK. And I got another one for you. The hits keep coming.

CHRISTIAN: It never ends.

BANFIELD: It really doesn`t. This one was posted on Facebook by Katriana Wilson (ph). It happened in Indiana. I can`t tell you the age, Michael.

I don`t think we`ve had that released by police yet.

CHRISTIAN: Yes.

BANFIELD: This is in a JCPenney. This is a teenager who is being restrained in a headlock by a mall employee. Let`s just listen for a bit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She ain`t even kicking you! No, she did not. Watch her feet right now. She did not kick you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yes, the story goes, according to the mall workers, that she had knocked over a display and they had tried to kick her out. She was there

with her family. The family says they were being told they didn`t belong there, so there`s clearly a difference of opinion here.

But she ended up getting hauled out of there in cuffs by mall security. I think she was in this headlock for quite some time, though, like, for

several minutes. Right, Michael?

CHRISTIAN: Yes, that`s right. And she was, as you say, taken away by mall security. They took her away in handcuffs to the mall security office.

But they later released her.

And Ashleigh, just before we went to air, just literally moments ago, we received a statement from JCPenney. And they informed us that this male

employee is no longer employed by that company.

BANFIELD: So lots of grown-ups trying to take matters into their own hands with teenagers who are tough, and they end up getting canned for it.

I want to bring in Joe Rajczak, who is a former high school principal, 30 years in the business of education. Joe, you and I had a long conversation

this summer about what the business of being an educator among teenagers is like and how it has changed over your 30 years.

Remind me what you told me on that football field in August about what kids say to teachers and do to teachers regularly in schools today.

JOE RAJCZAK, FORMER HIGH SCHOOL PRINCIPAL: Ashleigh, it`s a situation that -- it`s not like, when we talked, like you and I grew up. The things that

they say, we would never say, and we would never get away with saying it, but it`s -- they say anything and everything.

BANFIELD: Like what?

RAJCZAK: They will -- they will tell -- you know, you ask kids to, you know, go to class or things like that, it`s, F you. You know, I don`t have

to listen to you. They walk -- it`s just very disrespectful in a lot of cases, where some kids just, you know, feel as though they`re beyond

reproach in terms of, There`s nothing you can do to me, and I`m just going to do whatever I...

BANFIELD: So they tell you to your face as a school principal or as a teacher or as a resource officer to, F off?

[20:25:02]RAJCZAK: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: Regularly?

RAJCZAK: Get the F out of my face. Who are you? You`re not my mother. You`re not my father. It`s just -- it makes the education process very

difficult for the kids who really want to learn. And you know, as you look...

BANFIELD: What about for you, and what about for the grown-ups who are trying to deal with these kids when they`re unruly? Do you feel your hands

are tied? I mean, I can remember several kids getting the backhand if they were the least bit lippy. No one dropped an F-bomb in school when I was

there. But you can`t do anything like that. Can you even restrain them? Can you even stop a fight without having some kind of litigation thrown

your way?

RAJCZAK: You can stop a fight within reason. Certainly, training is an important part of that. You know, most of the people who respond to those

situations, we make sure that they have the training so that they can restrain, you know, students from hurting one another.

But there`s a lot of people who, you know, quite frankly, just won`t get involved because they`re afraid of either litigation or of getting hurt

themselves because, you know, as you look at some of those situations you showed earlier, the chaos that ensues is incredible.

And you see, you know, maybe a 10-second clip, you know, of the officer coming in and trying to control the situation, but there`s so much more

that`s happened before that. There`s hundreds of kids that are screaming and yelling. And you know, I know you bleeped out a bunch of things. But

that`s how some situations are and...

BANFIELD: It`s unreal. I got to be honest. I look at these things, and I think, I can`t believe these are school hallways and classrooms today. And

by the way, my friend, you are not the only person who has told me this. Several teachers have told me that they hear F-bombs hurled their way on a

daily basis.

It`s astounding to me! And maybe it`s no surprise that we`re seeing a lot of these grown-ups snapping because they just feel like they`re at their

wits` end.

Joe, thank you for your 30 years of service, my friend, and I hope you`re enjoying your retirement. You deserve it.

RAJCZAK: I am. I am. I`m doing my best.

BANFIELD: All right, you take care.

This next story is awesome. Her home is her castle, and she is not going to let anyone, certainly not an armed robber, turn her into a victim while

she`s in it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I tried to kill him. Anybody break in on me, I`m going to kill `em.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: She`s got a few other things to say, as well. You`re going to hear them.

Then this incredible video we showed you of a toddler and his twin brother going over -- oh! God, I see it, and I just cringe still. The dresser

wasn`t secured. The brother, herculean effort, was able to save his little brother underneath. Really, you can watch it over and over.

But -- but the internet went alive today. Is there something more to this video and to this story than meets the eye? Next.

[20:30:00] (COOMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I have this breaking update from our lead story. We just got off the air with a sheriff in Hubbard, Oregon regarding that house fire.

Mysteriously, a family of five vanishing, but a body inside that burned out house. Now, they are telling us literally a minute after the sheriff went

off our air that all three of the fires on that property -- the house, the outbuilding, and the garage -- were intentionally set.

Well, that changes things. They`re also saying that it is official. It is a criminal investigation, but they are still not saying where that family is

-- a family of five that lived in that home -- a body inside they`re not identifying and they`re certainly not saying there are four others that

they have found either. We`re going to continue to watch that story, but that breaking update just coming into us from Oregon.

"Granny Get Your Gun," you`ve probably heard of it. And there is a granny who certainly got one. Her name is 74-year-old Rebbie Roberson. She was

sitting down to watch the local news when all of a sudden, she became a top story because a man dressed in black wearing gloves and a mask broke into

her home that night and stuck a gun in her face.

So what did she do? She swung around, and she grabbed her own weapon, a .38 caliber pistol on a nearby table. There it is. And this is what she did.

She just fired off a few shots, and she`s got the bullet holes in the walls to prove it. It worked. That intruder ran off, and the pistol-packing

grandma is now a local hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REBBIE ROBERSON, PULLED GUN ON ARMED INTRUDER: So, I had to walk right out in front of him. I didn`t know whether he was going to kill me or what. And

when I started to get up, he was in here on me with the gun facing me right to my face. I reached over and grabbed this gun. And when I did, I swerved

around, and I pointed it at him. And when I did, he ran. I`m not sure I didn`t hit him. I don`t know yet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you sure tried.

ROBERSON: And I sure tried. I sure was hoping. You don`t -- that was a scare of my life. I tried to kill him. Anybody break in on me, I`m going to

kill him. Either he`s going to kill me or I`m going to kill him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I believe her. Rebbie Roberson joins me live now from Texarkana, Texas. Rebbie, how are you tonight? Are you OK?

ROBERSON (via telephone): Yes, I`m OK.

BANFIELD: Yes? You getting over the scare you had?

ROBERSON (via telephone): I`m about to, honey.

BANFIELD: Tell me --

ROBERSON (via telephone): It`s going to take a while.

BANFIELD: I can imagine. But, man, you are something else. You are tough. How did you get the gumption, staring down the barrel of a gun of an

intruder to reach over and get your own?

ROBERSON (via telephone): I knew if I didn`t, I had a chance maybe to make it if I shot him. One of us was going to get shot. I don`t know which one,

but one of us was going to get shot.

BANFIELD: And you unloaded, right? Like you fired at least I think four shots at him, right?

ROBERSON (via telephone): I got four holes in these walls.

BANFIELD: Do you think you got a hole in him?

[20:35:00] ROBERSON (via telephone): I don`t know. I haven`t heard anything.

BANFIELD: And the cops are --

ROBERSON (via telephone): If I didn`t, I sure come close.

BANFIELD: Say again.

ROBERSON (via telephone): I said it sure come close. If I didn`t get him, I know I got close to him because the holes in the walls prove it`s about

his height, in the holes in the wall.

BANFIELD: And the police are still looking for him. Did you get any kind of an ID on him or did the mask cover up any kind of, you know, visible

characteristics to help the cops find him?

ROBERSON (via telephone): I haven`t heard from the sheriff`s department yet, but they said they would do a thorough investigation. They`re taking

fingerprints and footprints and stuff like that. When he hit it, he didn`t do it with his foot. He done it with his body.

BANFIELD: That`s not easy, then. I have a question. You look --

ROBERSON (via telephone): Yes.

BANFIELD: -- to me as though you know what you`re doing with that gun. Are you a trained -- are you trained with the gun? Do you go to the gun range

or is this something kind of new to you?

ROBERSON (via telephone): This is the first time I ever tried to shoot the gun. And I would have killed him if I had known what -- if I had known what

to do with the gun. I just pulled the hammer back. I didn`t have to pull the hammer back. If I had known that, all I had to do was pull the trigger.

He`d be dead today.

BANFIELD: Wow, this was the first time you`d fired it off?

ROBERSON (via telephone): Yes.

BANFIELD: Holy cow. OK.

ROBERSON (via telephone): I think I meant what I said. If anybody breaks in on me, I`ll kill them. I don`t want nobody to hurt me.

BANFIELD: I do not disbelieve you, ma`am. One question for you.

ROBERSON (via telephone): Yes?

BANFIELD: What now? Do you keep that gun even closer? Do you go get training at a range? What`s your next move?

ROBERSON (via telephone): I will be here pretty shortly. I`m going to get a gun permit and I`m going to carry one with me everywhere I go because of

how bad it`s getting.

BANFIELD: Well, you`re certainly in a state where that is --

ROBERSON (via telephone): It`s bad but you know, you can`t prevent from happening to you, but you`d never know.

BANFIELD: You are certainly in a state where that is legal. You can get a permit -- you can carry and it sounds to me like you would be the person I

would not mess with. Rebbie, good luck and thanks for being with us tonight.

ROBERSON (via telephone): Okay, honey.

BANFIELD: I`m glad you`re okay.

(LAUGHTER)

ROBERSON (via telephone): I`m glad I`m living.

BANFIELD: Me too. Rebbie Roberson. My hero. All right, so this next story, very odd. A woman goes to the home of her ex. She`s very afraid of him. And

the next you know, the police go there too. And they find a whole bunch of scented candles in the garage, and that`s strange, right? Yes, because

they`re surrounding her body, and there`s a whole other story that leads up to that.

Also, a very unusual way to sell some papers. Run the mug shot of this guy. He`s an alleged DUI offender and he himself decided to go and buy up

hundreds and hundreds of newspapers so that his picture wouldn`t get out in the public -- the picture that you`re seeing on the TV right now.

[20:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I want to take you to League City, Texas. I want to take you to a house in League City, Texas. More specifically the garage behind the

house because when police searched that garage looking for a missing woman named Anne-Christine Johnson, they found her.

But they found her wrapped in plastic with a bag over her head, duct tape around her, and she was surrounded with scented candles. It turns out the

ex-husband confessed to killing her and then confessed that the scented candles were to mask the smell of his rotting wife in the garage. He

actually also confessed to having kicked a knife into her chest and watching her die, suffocating her to put her out of her misery.

What on earth could have led up to this? They both share a 5-year-old child. They were in a custody dispute and strangely both of them had filed

protective orders against each other.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN ELKINS, ANNE-CHRISTINE JOHNSON FRIEND: She was always scared of him. That was the tone. So, I was trying to explain to her, it`s not your fault.

Just because he says you`re a loser and he calls you names and says you`re a bad mom, it`s not true. He`s trying to break you down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Jeffrey Boney is the associate editor of the "Houston Forward Times." Jeffrey, what happened in this crime? There has to be more to this

story.

JEFFREY BONEY, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, HOUSTON FORWARD TIMES (via telephone): Well, you know, after investigating the case, Ashleigh, League City Police

went to a judge to get a warrant to search the home of, of course, Shaun Philip Hardy, the ex-husband of Anne-Christine Johnson. And because a Geo

Tracker detected a ping from Johnson`s cellphone after she went missing that came from near Hardy`s house, which of course means that the phone

never left the area.

And of course was also contrary to the story that Hardy told police that she had gotten into a car with a man that he could not identify after she

left the house. That`s when police started digging deeper. And when League City police went to the home looking for that cell phone after the warrant,

the detective noticed that strong odor of decaying flesh coming from the garage.

So, they issued a second search warrant, and soon after was when police found what they believed to be Johnson`s body wrapped in dark plastic and

duct tape in the garage. She was still wearing her red Christmas pajamas and still had the plastic bag over her head.

BANFIELD: Ah, OK. That`s the clue that stood out to me. She was wearing Christmas pajamas. He said, quote, "she came over the night of December

13th. Nobody goes over to someone`s house in Christmas pajamas certainly if you`ve got a restraining order against your ex.

Now, maybe she had some business to deal with, with the 5-year-old. Do we know if that 5-year-old was there or if there`s anything more to that story

about her being in her pajamas and having come over at the night?

BONEY: Well, I mean of course after the arrest, it is believed that the 5- year-old autistic son was there and he was -- the son was handed over to a family member.

[20:45:00] Johnson`s older child was already in the care of another father. So as far as the Christmas pajamas, not a lot of details surrounding really

those Christmas pajamas other than the fact that she was wearing them.

BANFIELD: All right. I want to bring in Christine Grillo, former prosecutor, defense attorneys Danny Cevallos and Joey Jackson. Grillo,

you`re the prosecutor here, this sounds like a Texas death penalty case.

CHRISTINE GRILLO, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, it is, but more than that, you`re asking questions. This is a classic domestic violence case and you

ask how would someone and why would she be in the pajamas? It`s not something unusual that we didn`t see time and time again when prosecuting

domestic violence cases that there is a restraining order for a very good reason.

And the wife would, on her own, go over there for whatever reason. She still -- maybe to see the son or to do something. It`s a trust thing. They

think that it`s going to be OK this time. And this is the unfortunate but common ending to these horrible domestic violence cases.

BANFIELD: Danny, is there anything to the fact that he just spilled it all? I mean he just literally, you know, verbal logorrhea (ph) to the cops,

all the details, even including the scented candles -- I was trying to, you know, get rid of the smell.

DANNY CEVALLOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you look at the minimal efforts to conceal the crime and that sort of evinces mind that isn`t necessarily

trying to escape, that sort of knows eventually, you may be able to get rid of the smell temporarily, but eventually there`s no move to really, really

clean up this crime scene.

So, it seems like maybe he thought it`s inevitable at some point. I`m just going to explode. This is not a master criminal by a long shot.

BANFIELD: Joey, at some point in these affidavits that I was reading, he said something along the lines of, "I kicked the knife that she had placed

at her chest," whatever that means, and that, "eventually I put a plastic bag over her head and suffocated her to put her out of her misery." None of

that can be mitigating.

JACKSON: No. In fact, it`s the opposite of mitigating. It`s aggravating. And not that this is ever appropriate any state, but to do it in Texas,

which leads the country in the application of the death penalty by far -- Texas, they kill people.

And with statements like that, he`s marching himself right to the death chamber. The only issue is whether this qualifies as a capital offense. I

think you add the element of kidnapping to it, it certainly does.

BANFIELD: And the torture.

JACKSON: Without question. That makes more aggravation, not mitigation.

BANFIELD: Got some new video that I want to show you tonight as well. The twin who rescued his brother after that dresser fell on top of him. It just

makes you cringe every time you see it. You can imagine it happening.

But now some people are breaking the internet saying, it`s a fake. Why? And what do the parents say about that?

[20:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Have you have seen Joseph Talbot? Because he really hopes that you haven`t. He didn`t want anybody to see his mug shot after he`s pulled

over for a DUI and arrested last week, but that`s the mug shot. And the New York State police took it and the media put it in the papers.

So, Joseph Talbot promptly went and bought as many papers as he could. In fact, he probably bought a thousand papers. He tried to clear off all the

racks so that folks in his town -- I guess from Palmyra, New York, or anywhere else in the Newark area would not see him. But they kept reloading

the racks and ultimately he couldn`t buy them all out.

And I`ll tell you something, HLN Primetime Justice not for sale so, you`ve seen Joseph Talbot it turns out because there he is in his mug shot -- DUI,

obstruction of governmental administration second degree and traffic violations. Not good advice. Don`t bother buying the papers. Not going to

work.

OK, yesterday, I played you that amazing video of those toddlers, those twins with like the superhero brother who rescued his little brother who

got trapped under the falling dresser. Remember when the dresser fell and we all just took a big, deep breath. Take a look. It`s silent so I`m going

to have to do the play by play for you.

There they are, cutie tooties (ph), Brock and Bowdy Shoff, 2-years-old. I still cringe when I see it. And little Bwody, he is looking all around. I

don`t know what to d. I got to push this thing off my brother. He tries every which way. At one point he even crawls up and over, which is like,

no, no, dude, your brother is under there.

But ultimately, this little monkey, cute as pie, he was able to push the dresser off his brother. And everybody went nuts, and then all of a sudden

the internet went nuts because a lot of people said, I don`t think so. They think it`s a hoax. These tweets started popping up and then he liked them.

Kevin (INAUDIBLE) saying, "Fake. Dresser was empty. Parents watching on camera. Trying to get YouTube famous".

And this one from (INAUDIBLE) says, "Camera pointed at dresser not beds." And then if you actually look at the dresser, there is nothing in the

dresser drawers. It is true. We can look closely. We got the video to show it. Do you see that? They`re empty. Little kids are climbing on empty

drawers.

The camera is pointed at the dresser, not at the beds. I don`t know. That`s not maybe so unusual. There`s a bed partly visible there. And the dad works

for the company, Bennett Smart Home (ph) that makes the camera that was used. So, all the naysayers jumped out. The dad responded on "New Day" this

morning to the naysayers and said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICKY SHOFF, FATHER OF THE TWINS: I mean, it`s ironic that it actually works at my house, like we caught something like that. It`s for security

but also just to keep track of the kids and we were able to go pull up a clip because it`s recording constantly. So, we were able to pull up that

clip and see the miracle that unfolded.

(END VIDEO CLIP

BANFIELD: And they are just unbearably cute whether they`re in a onesie or whether they`re sitting on the "New Day" set. Christine Grillo, if you

watch it in real-time, it takes several minutes for little Bowdy to rescue Brock and I cannot imagine any parent faking that and not helping those

kids.

[20:55:04] GRILLO: I agree with you but were they asked the question why were the drawers empty? I mean there`s probably a very plausible

explanation.

BANFIELD: Laundry.

GRILLO: Maybe, but all of it? I don`t know. You know what, at first, I said, no way, it can`t be, it can`t be. Like you said, who would want to

watch their children get crushed and the other one maybe try and save them. But then again if you knew that he couldn`t get that hurt and this was your

desire, I don`t know. People do crazy things. Social media has gotten people to go bonkers these days.

BANFIELD: Watching this part where the little brother --

GRILLO: Look, I can`t look. I can`t look.

BANFIELD: -- is crawling over the other little brother.

GRILLO: I can`t look but you know people, social media has driven people crazy.

BANFIELD: Danny, do you think it`s like --

CEVALLOS: I don`t even have kids, Ashleigh. What would I possibly know about what`s going on in that video? I do have twin nephews and I have to

tell you, there would be no heroism. The other one, Nick, would walk off and leave Matt to his doom.

BANFIELD: Joey, what do you think?

JACKSON: The cat is out of the bag. Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive. I think the reality is that this is a hoax.

It`s a fake and there are no coincidences in criminal law.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: Prosecute those husbands. Prosecute the wife.

BANFIED: No, I`m going to say right here, watch that fall. No parent could ever despite the empty drawers, no parent could ever watch that fall and

pin that child for that long and be okay with it. And I am flat out of time, but look at it one last time.

JACKSON: Yes, you look, it will be famous and on YouTube and on "NEW DAY."

BANFIELD: You be the judge.

GRILLO: It`s a fake dresser.

BANFIELD: Hey everybody, thank you so much for watching. Thank you for all your input.

JACKSON: Thank you Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: We`ll be back here tomorrow night, 8:00, PRIMETIME JUSTICE. Thanks for being here. "FORENSIC FILES" is next.

[21:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END