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Interview with James Woolsey; Some Trump Supporters Hoping They Don't Lose Obamacare; Interview with Televangelist Paula White. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired January 5, 2017 - 19:00   ET



WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: -- next Thursday for a separate town hall. Erin Burnett, OutFront starts right now.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OutFront next. Breaking news, President Obama speaking out for the first time about the brutal torture video broadcast live on Facebook, the beating of a Chicago teen now being called a hate crime.

Plus more breaking news, republicans vow to defund Planned Parenthood. The President of Planned Parenthood. My exclusive guest tonight OutFront.

And an adviser to Donald Trump on national security tonight cutting ties. It's over for the President-elect. Why? My guest tonight. Let's go OutFront. Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OutFront tonight, we begin with breaking news. A hate crime. President Obama speaking out for the first time about the shocking video of four young African-American adults accused of torturing and terrorizing a mentally disabled teen in Chicago, all of the streaming live on Facebook. The president saying moments ago, "What we have seen a surfacing I think are a lot of problems that have been there a long time. Whether it's tensions between police and communities, hate crimes of the despicable sort that has just now recently surfaced on Facebook," calling it a hate crime. Well, tonight two men and two women are facing multiple charges including kidnapping and a hate crime. I want to warn you that the video you're about to see is extremely disturbing. The individuals in it are making racist comments.


BURNETT: The four, three teenagers and a 24-year-old, appear to beat and taunt the captive teen. His mouth covered with tape, slicing his scalp with a knife, forcing him to drink toilet water. Michelle Kosinski is OutFront live at the White House. Michelle, this is horrific to even describe, this attack taking place in the president's hometown. And he is speaking out tonight.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. And here's how this came about. I mean, he's doing interviews today with five different TV outlets, all of them from Chicago and the intent of that was originally supposed to be talking about the farewell speech that he's going to deliver next week in his home city. But because of this incident, as well as the crime that continues in Chicago, they wanted to ask him about this.

So, multiple times that we heard him used the word despicable, used the word heart-breaking, talk about people he knows who've been affected, the fact that some of these incidents have happened a mile from his home there. So, he wanted to take this opportunity to talk about how much it affects him, to say that he's deeply concerned, but also to point out that according to crime statistics Chicago is an exception and not the rule right now in America. Here's part of what he said.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's been heart- breaking. You see what happens in Chicago and these are communities I know and love and there are so many good people there. And they're people who I know have been personally affected by levels of violence.

KOSINSKI: We also heard from the White House Press Secretary going to say saying and president, this is the president and White House being asked about this specifically. It's not necessarily that they're coming out on their own and wanting to deliver a statement specifically on this incident. But the press secretary called that video depraved today. He also talked about what the white house would like to see done in Chicago which means trying to keep illegal guns off the streets.

You know, this argument of Chicago being this -- you know, seeing this wave of violent crime recently has been one of the arguments made to not increase gun restrictions around the country because it does have strict gun laws, although they have been chipped away at in the recent past and a lot of the guns that contribute to the crime in Chicago are coming from out of state. Back to you, Erin.

BURNETT: Well, it was truly depraved and despicable what we saw on that. And among the charges, the four young adults are facing hate crime, aggravated kidnapping, aggravated unlawful restraint, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon. Rosa Flores is OutFront.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The disturbing images are difficult to watch. A white special needs teenager being bound, beaten, and slashed, all while four black individuals scream racial slurs and make anti-Trump comments.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You represent Trump?

FLORES: It was all streamed live on social media. At one point showing the victim's scalp being cut with a knife. Blood coming out of his wound.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we're going to put this (BLEEP) in a trunk and put a brick on that gas --

FLORES: The video also shows the suspects cutting the victim's shirt with knives and pounding his head. The four suspects are charged with aggravated kidnapping, hate crime, and aggravated battery with a deadly weapon. The victim was friends with one of the suspects and was with them willingly. But roughhousing, police say, escalated to abuse.

EDDIE JOHNSON, CHICAGO SUPERINTENDENT OF POLICE: Let me be very clear, the actions in that video are reprehensible.

FLORES: The victim met with his friend Jordan Hill at this McDonald's in a Northwest Chicago suburb Saturday. Police say, Hill was in a stolen van and drove the victim 30 miles to Chicago where they hung out with the other suspects.


FLORES: This video was live streamed Tuesday. The same day police found the victim injured and confused, wearing a tank top, shorts, and sandals in 20-degree weather.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was bloodied. He was battered.

FLORES: This woman saw the swarm of police activity that followed and then she put two and two together. There was a suspicious van driving erratically on Saturday, she says, and she remembers seeing one of the suspects.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's scary. It's really scary and I'm constantly telling my sister that we need to find somewhere else to live.

FLORES: Paul Joseph Watson from the conspiracy website Info Wars was quick to tie the case to the black lives matter movement tweeting, "This is the black lives matter terror, the MSN has legitimized." The connection, debunked by police, saying there is no evidence to show this terrible attack is linked to the black lives matter movement. Now the suspects are expected to face a judge tomorrow afternoon in bond court. Now, I asked the police if these four suspects showed any signs of remorse, and police say that no, they did not. And Erin, tonight, police tell us that victim is with his parents.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. Rosa OutFront now. Ben Ferguson and Mark Lamont Hill, CNN political commentator, Moorehouse College professor. Mark, let me start with you. You just heard Rosa. Police say that this didn't have anything to do with the black lives matter movement. You heard what some of the horrible things they were saying as they assaulted this boy. When the story broke, some conservative pundits tried to blame black lives matter. The #BLM kidnapping was mentioned comments like this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: - Trump (BLEEP) white people.

HILL: Stunned by the amount, I mean, of tweets that came out that said these people are hitting me saying "Mark, why don't you acknowledge this? Why don't you -- you know, people like you are activists, or protesters but suddenly when black lives matter is involved you don't say anything." And I was baffled as to why they were making a connection between black lives matter. This was an awful crime, a heinous act. But there was no connection to black lives matter.

People are always trying to make a connection to demonize the movement that is about justice. What happened here was an injustice, it was awful, and I hope the people get justice. And I think we can all agree on that.

BURNETT: Ben, is it fair to say that black lives matter had anything to do with this given what we heard was said?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Here's what I know. I know that this was very clear that this was politically motivated. All throughout that 33-minute video that I watched today unedited that was consistent them talking anti-Trump, saying this is for Trump and blank white people. I don't see a direct connection with black lives matter but I do see a connection between the anti-Trump rhetoric that we've seen since he's been elected by many who on the left have been talking in such a negative way, saying another hash tag out there that many people in black lives matter have been retweeting, not my president.

That's been tweeted out there hundreds of thousands of times by people who are saying he's not my president, that he'll never be my president. And when you see these individuals do this, specifically because this individual with special needs, because he was white, they stated over and over again, and this is for Donald Trump. We have to condemn this and those that are on the left need to condemn it harsher than anybody else to say you don't go after people because of your political ideology or because of who was elected president.

HILL: I don't think that this is a left or right issue. I don't think people on the left need to condemn this more. I think --

FERGUSON: It was for the people committing the crime.

HILL: We don't know people on the crime -- who committed the crime were on the left.

FERGUSON: They said this is for Donald Trump.

HILL: Right, right.

FEGUSON: How much more clear can you be?

HILL: Well, if you let me answer, I'll tell you. You know, there are many people on the right who also don't like Donald Trump. But my point here isn't that Donald -- that these people are on the left or the right. That's a -- that's a -- that's a distraction. My point here is ultimately this is an awful act that isn't about politics. People's critiques of --

FERGFUSON: It was for the people who did it.

HILL: People --gain, let me finish, Ben. I didn't interrupt you once. People who -- people who were criticizing Donald Trump in general do not go out and kidnap people holding at knifepoint. Yes, people say not my President, people said that was George Bush, people said Barack Obama, people said it was it was Bill Clinton, people said it was Jimmy Carter, people said it was Ronald Reagan. That is a common political thing. Whether we agree with it or not is a different.

But we can't make a one-to-one connection between that and the other, any more than I could say, hey, Donald Trump makes fun of disabled people on TV and these kids kidnapped a disabled person.


BURNETT: Mark, do you have to assume that there is something political or that the political environment has enabled that they are out there saying, this is for Trump as they are doing these horrific things to this white teen. And the people of course committing the act happen to be black.

HILL: I think that we live in a climate that promotes violence, that reckless behavior, that promotes using the internet and Facebook and all these kinds of spectacle driven technologies to draw attention to oneself. I think these are obviously people who have serious issues themselves that need to be, you know, sort of corrected. I don't think, though, that there's anything particular about left wing politics that leads to kidnapping a disable -- a mentally disabled person and holding them at knifepoint. No, I don't. And I would say the same thing if it were on the right.

FERGUSON: Mark, this is what worries me right is -- this is where -- this is where I think you and I genuinely should be able to come together and you condemn and to make it clear, if somebody would have done this and claimed it on behalf of -- this is for Barack Obama, I would have sat here and immediately said that that is no place and this is vile and this is disgusting and these are criminals and it has no place in politics. I expect the same from you.

HILL: I did that.

FERGUSON: When you look at this video -- no, but it's not clear, it's not clear that what you're saying about these individuals. Their entire video throughout it is laced with this is anti-white people and this is anti-Donald Trump and this is for Donald Trump.

HILL: Yes. But I'm not sure what I'm saying that you're disagreeing with. I'm not disputing if facts of the tape and I'm not disputing this is a heinous act and I'm not disputing that we should --

FERGUSON: But it's political.

HILL: And I'm not disputing that we should condemn it. All things are political on some level, but what I don't want to say is that -- but what I don't want to say is that because people on the left are criticizing Donald Trump that somehow that led to this. I think that is an absurd connection. That's all I'm saying.

BURNETT: Ben, do you think if the person tortured here were black, that if the roles were reversed, right? And the perpetrators were white, there would be more outrage than there is now? FERGUSON: First of, it would have been declared as hate crime immediately, there would have had been no debate over it for 24 hours and you would have had massive outrage, probably riots in the streets of Chicago and other cities around the country. All I'm saying tonight is we have to make it clear that no matter which side it is, this is unacceptable behavior. There seems to be a very clear double standard here. This was racism. This was racism against a white individual who was targeted because they were white and there should be just as much outrage on that if it was the other way as well.

HILL: Right.

BURNETT: All right. We'll leave it there, Mark. You got the first word, I'll give the last one to you then., Ben. Thank you. And next, the breaking news. The House Speaker Paul Ryan announcing plans to defund Planned Parenthood. The President of Planned Parenthood respond exclusively next OutFront.

And the former CIA director and Trump adviser James Woolsey just announcing he is no longer adivising Donald Trump, cutting ties. He's my guest this hour. Plus, vice president Joe Biden's message to Donald Trump tonight.

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Grow up, Donald. Grow up. Time to be an adult. You're president.


BURNETT: Breaking news at this hour. The House Speaker Paul Ryan says republicans will defund Planned Parenthood. He says all federal funding will be stripped for the organization as part of the process there using to get rid of Obamacare. The GOP has tried for years to do this. I mean, this has been a talking point forever. It is something President-elect Trump promised to do during the campaign but now it could become reality. Jeff Zeleny is OutFront. I mean, Jeff, this is incredible, right?

We have heard this promise again and again and again to the point to the point you almost don't hear it. But now it can happen. It matters. Can they follow through and end it?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, they certainly can. And in fact they tried in 2015. And in fact, both houses of congress, the house and the senate in fact passed this, but President Obama at the time vetoed it. That veto pen does not exist now in the White House or it won't after the 20th of January here. So this is a very real threat. Paul Ryan, the Speaker of the House, announced this earlier today and what we're talking about here is part of the repeal of Obamacare. It would take away about $400 million or so in federal funding. Medicaid funding.

And now this isn't about saving money necessarily. It's about ideology, about healthcare services, abortion services, other things. So, this is a very real threat and this is simply part of what is going to be the new normal here when republicans for the first time in 10 years control the house, the senate, and the White House. Erin. BURNETT: All right. Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much. So, OutFront now, let's go to the President of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Cecile Richards. Thanks for being with me. I appreciate your time. So, the President-elect, Cecile, has promised to get rid of Planned Parenthood, going to defund it. The House Speaker Paul Ryan says he's going to make it happen. You don't have that President Obama veto now. What do you say?

CECILE RICHARDS, PRESIDENT, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: Well, I think we say like the millions of women in America are concerned about not only the overthrowing of the affordable care act and losing access to care but also ending access to Planned Parenthood. You know, one in five women in this country, Erin, have been to Planned Parenthood for healthcare and we've been hearing from them all day today, concerned that Speaker Ryan would be denying them access to go to the healthcare provider of their choice.

And I think what's important here is it's not about a funding line for Planned Parenthood. What Speaker Ryan is talking about doing is denying women on Medicaid, the ability to go to Planned Parenthood for birth-control and for cancer screenings and family planning services. It's not popular with the American people, and I think that he -- I already know his phone has been jammed up today already about calls from women, concerned.

BURNETT: So what happens to Planned Parenthood if you lose federal funding? Does it -- does it go away or not?

RICHARDS: No. I mean, we've been around. We just celebrated our 100th anniversary. We've been here for 100 years, long before birth- control was even available in this country. Really the challenge here, Erin, is that women who count on us for healthcare, for preventive healthcare because what he's talking about has nothing to do with abortion. This actually has to do with denying women access to family planning and cancer screenings.

What it will mean is simply that there are people who count on us for health care, including thousands in the State of Wisconsin, his own state, who will no longer be able to go to the health care provider of their choice, which has been Planned Parenthood for many years.

BURNETT: So, this does all, -- you know, when it comes to congress in many ways comes down to abortion, right? Your opponents now the political power to threaten your existence say Planned Parenthood is an abortion provider, right? Hiding behind the guise of other medical needs that women have. So I just want to put some core stats out there to understand and so people can understand the debate here.

We compare the number of abortions that Planned Parenthood performed, more than 327,000. This is the year 2013 that we could find, in the 47 states that report numbers. You provided half of those abortions. I mean, do you agree, Cecile, that Planned Parenthood is core to abortion in America?

RICHARDS: Well, we provide abortion services, we also provide millions of other services to folks. And again, I think it's really it's important, Erin, yes, we provide abortion, we think it's important, it's a legal service that women need access too in this country. But what Speaker Ryan is trying to do here and what Vice President -- incoming Vice President Pence has been trying to do is end access to everything that would prevent unintended pregnancy in this country including family planning services. And that's the real irony here.

And we have seen what's happened in states like Texas where they've ended access to family planning services, to cancer screenings. We just saw in Texas, a doubling of a maternal mortality rate for women and particularly low-income women, African-American women who have the least access to care. And so ironically, I think what they're trying to do will, if anything, drive up the rate of unintended pregnancy in this country and have exactly the opposite impact of what supposedly they intend.

BURNETT: But if the federal funding goes away, you're making the point the organization has been around for 100 years, Planned Parenthood would still be around, you would still be able to provide these core services, you're saying including abortion. So why do you need the federal funding?

RICHARDS: Well, I -- it's not the federal funding. It's the fact that women on Medicaid and millions of them who come to us will no longer be able to come to us. So, let me just give you a good example. In the State of Wisconsin where the largest family planning provider. We have 22 health centers, many even rural areas of Wisconsin. And for many of these women, we're their only family planning provider. So, if they can no longer come to Planned Parenthood, it's very likely and many of these areas they will no longer be able to get access to birth control and to cancer screenings.

That's what we're talking about, we're talking denial of services. So Planned Parenthood may still exist, but it won't exist for the people who in many cases count on us as their only healthcare provider.

BURNETT: President-elect Trump -- this is not just a Planned Parenthood issue, Cecile, of course, it's the supreme court, right? He has promised and there's every indication, he is going to keep this promise very, very specifically to nominate a pro-life judge. Do you believe Roe V. Wade could be a thing of the past?

RICHARDS: Well, it's absolutely at risk and we take the Supreme Court and the future nominees very, very seriously. Look, there's the highest support for Roe Versus Wade in this country that we have ever had and I think probably because folks are concerned about the outcome of the election. I think it would be a huge mistake for this administration to appointed justice who would overturn more than 40 years of a illegal right of women in this country.

But we'll be looking at whoever the appointees are by the President- elect and making our opinion known and making sure our nine and a half million supporters are engaged in communicating not only with the president but also with their members of congress and the senate.

BURNETT: Cecile Richards, thank you so much. I appreciate your time tonight.

RICHARDS: Thank you, Erin.

BURNETT: And next, Joe Biden tells Donald Trump to grow up, Donald. And my interview with the former CIA Director James Woolsey, just an hour ago cutting ties with Donald Trump. Why is he no longer advising the President-elect?

Plus republicans can't agree on how to dismantle Obamacare, but some Trump supporters are now saying leave it alone, we want it. Wait until you hear this story from Sanjay Gupta.


BURNETT: Breaking news, President Obama tonight taking issue with Trump's attacks on the intelligence community when it comes to Russian hacking.


OBAMA: My hope is that when the President-elect receives his own briefings and is able to examine the intelligence as his team is put together and they see how professional and effective these agencies are that some of those current tensions will be reduced.


BURNETT: This came after the nation's top intelligence officials testified on Capitol Hill today saying he is more certain than ever Russia is responsible for hacking the U.S. Election.

Also breaking tonight, a prominent adviser to Trump on these very issues cutting ties to the President-elect. We're going to the Former CIA Chief James Woolsey. He is my guest in a moment. First Pamela Brown is OutFront.

JAMES WOOLSEY, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Trade craft that the Russians have long used.

PAMELA BROWN,: Today the nation's top spy not mincing words in his defense of the .S. Intelligence assessment that Russia is to blame for the unprecedented hacks during the 2016 election.

WOOLSEY: I don't think that we've ever encountered a more aggressive or direct campaign to interfere in our election process and we've seen in this -- in this case.

BROWN: And insisting their confidence has only increased.

WOOLSEY: We stand actually more resolutely on the strength of that statement that we made on the 7th of October.

BROWN: James Clapper along with both democrat and republican lawmakers sending a strong message in the wake of Donald Trump's repeated public statements doubting the intelligence. SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: Who actually is the benefactor of someone who is about to become Commander in Chief trashing in intelligence community?

JAMES CLAPPER, DIRECTOR OF NATIOANL INTELLIGENCE: I think there's a difference between scepticism and disparagement.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Putin's up to no good and he better be stopped. And Mr. President-elect, when you listen to these people, you can be sceptical but understand they're the best among us and they're trying to protect us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much.

BROWN: Clapper revealing today that a comprehensive report into the democratic party hacks will lay out not just what the Russians did but why they did it. Among the motivations expected in the report set to be released Monday, an effort to tip the election in Trump's favor.

CLAPPER: There are actually more than one motive that will be described in the report. I assure you that we intend -- I intend be -- to push the envelope as much as I can on -- particularly on the unclassified version because I think the public should know as much about this as possible.

BROWN: Clapper told the committee the hacks were only one part of a broader effort by Russia.

CLAPPER: This was a multifaceted campaign. The hacking was only one part of it, and it also entailed classical propaganda, disinformation, fake news.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does that continue?


BROWN: Intelligence officials say it's clear the man behind it all is Vladimir Putin.

GRAHAM: You say -- you think this was approved at the highest level of government in Russia. Generally speaking, is that right?

CLAPPER: That's what he said.

GRAHAM: OK. Who's the highest level of government?

CLAPPER: Well, the highest is President Putin.

GRAHAM: Do you think a lot happens in Russia big that he doesn't know about?

CLAPPER: Not very many.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I don't think so either.

CLAPPER: Certainly none that are politically sensitive in another country.

BROWN: And we're learning tonight U.S. Intelligence has identified the go-betweens the Russians used to provide the stolen e-mails to WikiLeaks. This information was included in the classified report presented to President Obama today. Tomorrow, President-elect Trump will receive his briefing in New York from the leaders of the leaders of the intelligence community. Of course, we'll be covering that. Erin?

BURNETT: Absolutely. And we'll see you then. Thank you, Pamela. And OutFront now, former CIA Director under President Clinton, Ambassador James Woolsey. Ambassador Woolsey, good to have you on. I have to begin with the breaking news until just a few moments ago you were advising Donald Trump. I was going to introduce you as an adviser to Donald Trump. You are now a former. Why?

WOOLSEY: Well, I didn't want to fly under false colors. I've been an adviser and felt that I was making a contribution and I strongly support Mr. Trump for president did since early September, and I wish him well.

But I'm not really functioning as an adviser anymore. And so when I'm on the screen, everybody announces that I'm former CIA director and that I'm a Trump adviser, and I'm really not anymore. So, I just thought I should strike that from the Chyron or what -- as it comes up on the screen so nobody was under false impressions. That's all.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: And when did you stop advising him? Was there a point you stopped talking to him specifically?

WOOLSEY: I don't think there was a particular point. I've only seen him in person a couple of times, talked with him on the phone a little bit. So, I was not at the center of the advisory function.

But I was pleased to be included and I am just -- don't like things that come to the point that I ought to make sure that nobody gets a false impression. I didn't want to be claiming that I'm something I'm not.

BURNETT: Well, when you say things have got on the point, I mean, you're the one making this decision, right?


BURNETT: You decided late today and say anything to you. They didn't ask you to leave. No one in Trump transition. This is just you.

WOOLSEY: All I mean is by that is that the selections have largely been made. I -- my background in defense and national security and intelligence I think is probably not relevant to more decisions that need to be made in the next couple of weeks. The world starts over again when the candidate now or president select becomes president, is sworn in on January 20th.

So -- but for now, I don't want people to get the impression that I'm claiming to be something I'm not. That's all. BURNETT: I'm just trying to understand, because, you know, you have

come out, Ambassador, on this show and others, and you have said things that don't necessarily, you know, jive with what Donald Trump said, specifically on this most recent issue of Russia's responsibility for hacking the U.S. election. Donald Trump does not admit this. James Clapper today said that there are many in the intelligence community that perceived this as disparaging of the community.

A former chief of staff for Leon Panetta, also a former CIA director, said this could lead to a national security crisis. Intel tonight, you heard Pamela Brown, the U.S. intel says they know the identities of the very Russians who leaked the information to Julian Assange at WikiLeaks. Donald Trump does not admit to any of this.

WOOLSEY: Well, that --

BURNETT: In fact, he is citing Julian Assange. Is part of your leaving because you're frustrated with him?

WOOLSEY: No. That latter point about the in-betweens, the middlemen for the Russians, is a relative -- a new find I think within the last day or so. To me, that's extremely important.

And I think that -- once they've got the identity of some of these people, I think that makes it clearer that it was more or less centrally orchestrated rather than somewhat more disheveled as I was characterizing it up until a couple of days ago. I think the Russians have been involved in one way or another, but it looks now from this most recent announcement as if it was more in a control mode than just a participation mode.

So --

BURNETT: So, the time for Trump to say, OK, enough on this, uncle?

WOOLSEY: When I was advising him, I didn't tell anyone what I communicated, and I've worked for four presidents, two Republicans, two Democrats. I've never told anyone what I said to them or they said to me, and I'm not going to start now.

BURNETT: So, the vice president today, Joe Biden, was asked to weigh in on Donald Trump, how he's handled things, right? And you've been on on this show and others, right, whether it's national security or other things, and I would say to you, Ambassador Woolsey, here's what Donald Trump just tweeted, and you would be put into the frankly sometimes awkward position of having to explain or defend what he said. Today, Joe Biden when asked to weigh in on Trump's tweets, including ones insulting Chuck Schumer, where he called him clown in recent days, and President Obama, here's what Joe Biden said.


JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Grow up, Donald. Grow up. Time to be an adult. You're president. You've got to do something. Show us what you have. You're going to

propose legislation. We're going to get to debate it. Let the public decide. Let them vote in Congress. Let's see what happens.


BURNETT: "Grow up, Donald," he said. Does Trump need to grow up? Do you share that feeling?

WOOLSEY: I wouldn't put it that way, no.

He has a very different demeanor when he's talking to a couple, three people. It's very reasonable and quite ordinary, normal, smart, good questions, good answers.

[19:35:06] When he gets in front of 50,000 shouting millennials, he goes into a rather fascinating mode and I call it his shtick.

But that -- you know, that's not something that an adviser or even a citizen I think ought to say, you have to behave this way, Mr. Trump, not that way. That's his call, not mine.

BURNETT: All right. Well, Ambassador Woolsey, I appreciate your time and thank you so much.

WOOLSEY: It's good to be with you.

BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, Republicans vow to repeal and replace Obamacare, but it is now Trump supporters who are saying no. Wait until you hear this story I told you. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is next.

And Donald Trump meeting with his spiritual adviser on a weekly basis. She's going to be at the inauguration. Has he been praying? I'm going to ask his pastor, the televangelist, Paula White.


BURNETT: New tonight, a top American senator saying Obamacare won't be replaced all at once. John Cornyn, the senator, telling CNN there won't be one big fix, right? They're going to get rid of it and they're going to kind of do a little bit here, a little bit there and spackle it up.

Some Trump supporters, though, are now worried. They want Republicans to think twice about doing anything at all to Obamacare. You heard me right.

Sanjay Gupta is OUTFRONT.


BOB RUSCOE, TRUMP VOTER WHO NEEDS OBAMACARE: They wouldn't sell it to me at any price.

[19:40:01] It was just not -- but I was overweight. So I was a risk. DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Back

in 2013, Bob Ruscoe, then-53 years old, was a familiar story in America. Too familiar. He was more than 100 pounds overweight, at risk of heart disease and diabetes. He was also self-employed and no company wanted to offer him health care insurance. He was considered too big a risk.

(on camera): Was that tough to go uninsured?

RUSCOE: Well, it doesn't make you warm and fuzzy. But I didn't like it, but it was the reality of the situation.

GUPTA: When did you first hear about the Affordable Care Act?

RUSCOE: It was all over the news.

GUPTA: What did you think?

RUSCOE: I thought it was a good idea, even though I'm conservative.

GUPTA: So when did you first sign up for Obamacare?

RUSCOE: When it was first available. It was October, I remember, and I wanted to be covered because it's important.

GUPTA (voice-over): And as a result, starting in 2014, Bob was able to get insurance after subsidies. It was finally within reach and a big relief.

RUSCOE: September was -- I can't wait until October, it's the feeling of coming out of the rain, if you will. You know, you're out there to the breezes. You know, you can do all you can, get healthy, try to be safe, but there's a certain amount of fate that's just out there. So to have coverage was, phew.

GUPTA: Which makes what happened next all the more surprising.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Repealed and replaced.

GUPTA (on camera): You voted for Donald Trump who promised to repeal something that you're very much benefiting from. Again, how do you explain that to people?

RUSCOE: I did what I thought was correct for the overall good of the country. I think economic strength cures a lot of things. People working, making decent money, that's certainly -- helps out. I'd rather not need the subsidies. I'd rather be working.

TRUMP: We are repealing and replacing Obamacare. We can reverse the stagnation and usher in a period of true opportunity and growth.

GUPTA (voice-over): That repealing Obamacare would be good for the economy. It's a common refrain.

But the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget suggests the opposite. They say fully repealing Obamacare would cost roughly $350 billion over ten years and would also increase the number of uninsured by 23 million.

(on camera) If he does repeal Obamacare as he's promised to do, what is that going to mean for you?

RUSCOE: No insurance.

GUPTA: No insurance. That was a big problem for you before.

RUSCOE: I wasn't happy about it.

GUPTA (voice-over): Truth is, some of the states that most benefited from Obamacare had a majority who voted for Trump. Like Ruscoe's home state of Florida. In fact, Florida has the highest percentage of enrollees in the nation. One in 10 from Floridians under 65 signed on for health insurance through the Affordable Care Act.


GUPTA: Ruscoe credits Obamacare with profoundly changing his health. And because of that, this lifelong conservative wrestled for the first time with the idea of voting Democrat.

RUSCOE: If I'd have voted for what I thought was strictly best more me, I would have voted for her, because the health care plan gives us peace of mind. Medical screening to stop something before it gets worse.

Look at how many things have gotten better.

GUPTA: Ruscoe says he has no regrets voting for President-elect Trump but would tell him this.

RUSCOE: Each day we face the possibility of losing our home, going into bankruptcy. One thing to come in. The health care act has taken that worry away.


BURNETT: It's a really powerful plea. So, you've got to hope that Republicans and Donald Trump were watch, Sanjay.

I mean, did -- when he said that he voted for Trump, but Clinton would have been better for him, did he vote for Trump because he thinks the president-elect will save some form of Obamacare or was it a completely different reason?

GUPTA: Yes, I think that was a big part of it. This idea that, look, he's saying these things, I hear him saying these things, but I don't know if that's actually going to happen. I don't know if he'll fully repeal the parts of Obamacare I like. That was one point that Bob made.

The other point is he felt he was voting for an economy president and if the economy improved, a guy like Bob could get to the point he wouldn't be dependent on any kind of subsidies from the Affordable Care Act. So, those were his two reasons. But, look, as he said, it wasn't an

easy decision. He's voted Republican every single election. This time, it was a tough one for him.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Amazing report.

And next, the televangelist and spiritual adviser to Donald Trump going to be at the inauguration with her, the first woman ever, under increasing fire from contributes. Paula White speaks out exclusively to OUTFRONT.

And Jeanne Moos on the mother of quadruplets who hid out in the pantry only to find there is no place to hide.


[19:45:06] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's always there.




BURNETT: Tonight, an OUTFRONT exclusive, Donald Trump's longtime spiritual adviser Paula White speaking out after coming under attack by a number of conservatives and Christian leaders. The televangelist will be leading the invocation at Trump's inauguration.

Since that announcement, a romantic history, faith, fund-raising practices which were once investigated by the U.S. Senate thrust back into the spotlight.

Paula White is OUTFRONT with me now.

And, Paula, I want to give you a chance to respond to the criticism in a moment. But I, first, just wanted to say, look, this is an incredible moment for you. It is going to be -- you will be the first female clergy member --


BURNETT: -- to participate at an inauguration. The first in American history.

WHITE: It's absolutely amazing. Thank you. So good to be with you, Erin.

And not only the first female, but when you look at what President- elect Trump is doing, it really is so far beyond just being symbolic at substance. So, you have six of us.

Every one from -- never ever done before by the way -- evangelical, white, Franklin Graham. You have Hispanic, Reverend Sammy Rodriguez. [19:50:00] You have an African-American, Bishop Wayne Jackson. You

have the first female clergy, myself. Rabbi Hier, that has not -- we haven't had a rabbi since Reagan. You have a cardinal, Dolan, which we haven't had since Carter.

And so, I really think it speaks to the heart of Mr. Trump and who he is to say the first thing he does on his swearing-in prayer invoking the blessing of God, bringing unity through the men and women of God to really say to this nation as we pray over the nation, as we pray over humanity, pray over our president and vice president, that's a huge statement. And really for the man I've known 15 years, that's the heart of who this man is.

BURNETT: And when we spoke in August, a lot has changed, obviously. Trump is now the president-elect, right?


BURNETT: It is two weeks away. He will be president. You speak with him regularly. What have you talked about since he's won? Has he changed in terms of his perception of the world?

WHITE: When you go, has he changed, the man that I know, I think I see so much what other people I hope are seeing, and that is the strong leader he is -- again, from a spiritual perspective, the man of God, the man of strength, the man what's a great listener, the man of compassion, a tremendous leader. And you're going to see that -- a man who is filling his administration in such a wise way, great players, great leaders on. And so, we're beginning to see that.

BURNETT: Has he been praying regularly about the responsibility he's taking on?

WHITE: I know I've had several opportunities to pray with him. I can't say what he does in all of his private time --

BURNETT: But he has prayed with you?

WHITE: Many times, many times, which is always a great privilege.

BURNETT: What advice are you given him? What have you prayed about? I know there are certain --

WHITE: Whenever I pray for him, it's always going to be inspired by the spirit of God. I pray and always by the word of God. So, at that moment, whatever it is, if it's wisdom, if it's the piece of God, if it's -- whatever it is in that moment over his family, over him being in this position to lead our nation and the country. That's a huge responsibility and what a privilege to be able to pray as all of us should be.

BURNETT: And the -- you'll be leading the invocation, right?


BURNETT: OK. So, once this was announced, some of your longtime critics have come out. They have criticized you again about now you have this prominent role. In a "Washington Post" op-ed a couple days ago, Michael Horton, who's a theology professor, wrote this about you, "Televangelist White has a lot in common with Trump. Both are in their third marriage and have endured decades of moral and financial scandal."

What's your response?

WHITE: Well, my remember was, this has just been absolutely amazing because not only have they said things about my personal life, but the greatest one to me was that I denied the Trinity, you know? I mean --

BURNETT: That's right, they said that.

WHITE: Absolutely absurd to me. Jesus Christ, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, I always have been -- it's my mission statement, right on everything. I mean, there is no denial of the Trinity.

When you look at the things they want to bring up, there's absolute absurdity to a lot of it. Let's go back. Even if we go, people say Senate investigation, it was an inquiry.

BURNETT: Into the financial -- right.

WHITE: Yes, it was an inquiry. The inquiry was found to have no wrongdoing.

If they say she's filed bankruptcy. I've never filed bankruptcy. I had resigned without walls (ph). I had no absolutely part.

Yes, I have been through a divorce. Yes, I've gone through things. I believe that marriage is a sacred institution of God. We went through therapy for many years, believe God, stood with God.

It was one of the things if you would have said, you know, 20 years prior, you're going to go through this. I never would have wanted it, desired it, but I did. And these are things that happen in life. But that didn't mean -- I always said, hey, God knew everything I would go through before I went through it.

And so, walking through things -- somebody once said they labeled me "Muddy Authenticity". I said, yes, I have mud on me. I go, some of it was thrown on me, some of it I fell down, but thank God for the grace of God.

There's not -- not everything is perfect in my life, but I don't think everything is perfect in anybody's life. And that is why we need salvation. That is what redemption is all about, that ware saved by faith through grace.


WHITE: So, you know, thank God for his goodness or we'd all be in trouble. I'm grateful his mercies are new every single morning.

BURNETT: Well, thank you very much. I appreciate your time. And, of course, we'll see you in Washington.

Jeanne Moos is next.


[19:58:00] BURNETT: Your kids may be able to hide from you, ooh, but as I have learned, there's no hiding from them.

Here's Jeanne Moos.




JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Need an escape from the kids? This mom's solution went viral.

ASHLEY GARDNER, MOM: Mom desperately needed a treat to get through the rest of the night. So I'm hiding in the pantry. Eating a treat. Is that wrong?

MOOS: Well, Ashley Gardner did get some mean comments, but the Internet was smitten with the end.

ASHLEY GARDNER: They don't ever go away. They want everything you have.

MOOS: When she moved her phone down to the crack of the door, that's when viewers cracked up.


UNIDENTIFIED KID: She's always there.



MOOS: Three hi's, one eye, but she wasn't alone.

How many of them are there on the other side of the pantry door?

Four. Two-year-olds nicknamed the quad squad.

The Gardners of Orem, Utah, struggled with infertility for eight years until IVF paid off.

TYSON GARDNER, DAD: They split and so here we are quadruplets, two settles of identical twins.

MOOS: Ashley titled her video "Sums up motherhood in 34 second."

ASHLEY GARDNER: I mean, my video was about being in the pantry eating a treat and a lot of other moms identify with the fact of just going to the bathroom for 30 seconds in peace, which never happens.

MOOS: Who wants to eat twizzlers in the bathroom?

The Gardners are no strangers to publicity. They blog about their family life almost every day and are even on a reality show about parenting.

You did get some comments like, you know, you had them, deal with it, kind of stuff. What do you say to those people?

ASHLEY GARDNER: They obviously don't know what it's like to be a parent.

MOOS: The daughter peering through the crack, by the way, is named Indie (ph). Her nickname.


MOOS: And because she likes to say hi, sometimes they call her Indie Pie Hi.


MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN --


MOOS: -- New York.




BURNETT: Thanks for joining us.

Anderson starts now.