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Interview With Pennsylvania Congressman Tim Murphy; Airport Shooting Suspect in Court; Florida Manhunt; FBI Returned Gun After Mental Health Tests; North Korea: Ready To Test Missile "Anytime"; Ash Carter: Nukes, Missiles "Serious Threat"; Pyongyang: U.S. "Wholly To Blame" For Missile Tests; U.S. Navy Fires Warning Shots At Iranian Boats. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired January 9, 2017 - 16:30   ET



BRENT SNAVELY, "DETROIT FREE PRESS": They were under discussion with the UAW back in 2015 as possible things that could come.

And, certainly, everything that was announced yesterday really wasn't much of a surprise to industry reporters. Everything that was announced, aside from the investment figure and the job number itself, the vehicles and the products and the plant investments were rumored for months.

And I was not surprised by any of those announcements. The key piece of the Fiat Chrysler announcement yesterday, though, was the reference, the possibility that the manufacturing of heavy-duty pickups, which Fiat Chrysler exclusively makes in Mexico right now, could, could, if demand warrants in the future, be made here in Warren, Michigan.

Again, I think this is a case where the positioning of the announcement, the way it's being positioned and perhaps the timing and the matter of days or weeks is being influenced by Trump, but not -- but not the fact that they actually are doing it and that they were going to do it anyway with or without Trump.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Although you acknowledge that Ford CEO said that Mr. Trump's policies did play a part in his decision to scrap plans for a plant in Mexico.

What do you think -- when you talk about the market conditions changing and also when you talk about the factor that Donald Trump does play in this, what do you think is the driving factor behind these announcements? Is it just the market conditions? Is it the more willingness of people to buy SUVs? Is it fear of Donald Trump? Is it taxes being lowered? Is it all of the above?

SNAVELY: In a way, all of the above.

So let's try to quickly dive back into and parse the Ford announcement. Yes, Ford CEO Mark Fields said a number of times that the pro-business policies that a Trump administration could usher in, could usher in, were a factor in the decision to cancel a plan to build a $1.6 billion plant in Mexico, a factor, OK?

But that plant in Mexico was going to build small cars. They were going to move the production of the Ford Focus from here in Michigan to Mexico. Now they are still going to make the Focus in Mexico, but at an existing plant in Hermosillo.

Mark Fields also said -- and this got much less of the high-profile headlines -- he also said the primary factor, the number one factor for that decision was falling car sales. So, we are in a situation in the U.S. auto industry right now where, yes, last year, automakers sold a record 7.5 million new cars and trucks in the U.S., more than ever in history, but car sales are declining, while SUV, crossover and pickup truck sales are increasing.

TAPPER: A complicated explanation. We appreciate it. Brent Snavely, thank you so much.

The airport massacre suspect making his first court appearance since five people were shot and killed and new information emerging that he even questioned his own mental health -- that story next.



TAPPER: We're back with the national lead now.

An intense manhunt is under way in and around Orlando, Florida, for the man police say shot and killed a law enforcement officer and a pregnant woman. Police have a number of schools and neighborhoods on lockdown right now as they search for Markeith Lloyd. He's accused of killing Master Sergeant Debra Clayton.

Early this morning, she told dispatchers she was trying to contact the murder suspect outside a Wal-Mart. Two minutes later, fellow officers radioed in, saying she had been shot. Clayton died less than an hour later. She was a 17-year police veteran and mother of two.

Police say an Orange County deputy was killed in a crash while responding to the Wal-Mart scene as well. Detectives put out a wanted poster advertising a $60,000 for information that leads to Lloyd's arrest. He was initially wanted for the murder of his pregnant girlfriend last month.

Also in Florida today, the first court appearance for the man accused of opening fire at Fort Lauderdale Hollywood International airport, killing five people. Federal court papers show Esteban Santiago confessed to planning Friday's attack.

He showed no emotion as authorities moved him from jail to court this morning, where he was formally charged in the deaths of five innocent people, 62-year-old Terry Andres, who was vacationing with his wife, 84-year-old Olga Woltering, who was about to head off on a cruise with her husband, 70-year-old Shirley Timmons, a grandmother married 51 years to her high school sweetheart, Michael Oehme, 57, who was also in town for the cruise. His wife was hurt in the shooting. She survived. The fifth victim has yet to be identified.

CNN's Boris Sanchez has covered the story since it broke Friday. He joins me now from the airport.

Boris, you were in court for today's hearing. Did the killer provide any clues at all as to his motive?

Boris Sanchez, CNN CORRESPONDENT: None at all, Jake. He really didn't speak much throughout the proceeding this morning.

It lasted all of about 15 minutes. He looked around when he first walked into court, surrounded by U.S. Marshals, and then he sat at the defense table and mostly kept his head bowed through the entire hearing, except to give very short answers to the judge's questions, asking him if he understood his rights and the seriousness of the charges against him.

All of this as we get a clearer picture of not only his life before the shooting, but also perhaps some of the demons that he was dealing with.


SANCHEZ (voice-over): The man seen in this terrifying video obtained by TMZ pulling a pistol from his waistband and firing toward the crowded baggage claim at Fort Lauderdale's airport is now charged with three crimes, two of which carry a possible death penalty.


Five people were killed in that violent attack on Friday. In court, 26-year-old Esteban Santiago told the judge he was currently unemployed and only has $5 to $10 to his name. He added that he had previously worked as a security officer and served about a decade in the Army.

His family telling CNN that his personality had changed dramatically after his last deployment to Iraq. All this as new questions emerge regarding Santiago's mental health and just how he was able to gain access to the weapon used in the deadly airport massacre.

ANNIKA DEAN, SURVIVOR: There was no escape. I just began to pray, prayed that my children wouldn't lose their mother.

SANCHEZ: Police say this .9-millimeter handgun had been confiscated from the shooter in November after he walked into an FBI office in Alaska to tell them he was hearings voices and was being influenced by ISIS.

But after a mental health evaluation, he was not deemed mentally defective. The gun was returned.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: How is that possible? Well, under existing law, mental illness can only be grounds to take away somebody's weapons if a court has ordered you involuntarily committed to a mental hospital. If you are merely surrendering voluntarily, that does not deprive you of the right to have weapons.

SANCHEZ: It's a loophole that baffles Santiago's own family.

BRYAN SANTIAGO, BROTHER OF SUSPECT (through translator): How are you going to let someone leave a psychological center after four days when he is saying he is hearing voices?

SANCHEZ: Court documents show Santiago has confessed to planning the attack. Friends and associates noticed more erratic behavior, investigators say, all leading up to Friday, when he fired approximately 10 to 15 rounds, aiming at his victims' heads.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the ladies that was killed was my seat mate on the plane. Her husband was shot in the face. The guy next to him was shot in the cheek.

SANCHEZ: Families of the victims are now providing images of their loved ones killed in the attack, including mothers, fathers, and grandparents.

Those left behind no doubt wondering how things could have been different.


SANCHEZ: Esteban Santiago is due in court next Tuesday for a bail hearing. It is highly unlikely in this case that he is going to be released on bail, Jake.

One more thing. CNN did speak to his brother, again, in Puerto Rico. And he confirmed that Esteban Santiago has two half-brothers and a half-sister here in Florida, though it's unclear if that's the reason he picked the Fort Lauderdale Airport to launch the attack -- Jake.

TAPPER: Boris Sanchez, thank you so much.

Joining me now to talk about this, Republican Congressman Tim Murphy of Pennsylvania, who is also a licensed psychologist.

Congressman, thanks for being here, as always.

We have been talking about mental health issues since I started the show. I have to say, the system functioned exactly as it was supposed to and it clearly failed.

REP. TIM MURPHY (R), PENNSYLVANIA: It failed for multiple reasons.

I pushed for a need for treatment standard and not just imminent danger standard. When the FBI...

TAPPER: Standard for what?

MURPHY: For an inpatient involuntary commitment.

TAPPER: OK. MURPHY: But this also requires that a psychologist and psychiatrist on board have got to do a detailed risk assessment. And quite frankly many are not trained for that. Many FBI agents are not trained for that.

They may have done the handoff and said, tell us what to do, and not have gathered the information. Perhaps the doctors didn't gather the information. Someone who had trouble in the military, a year ago this month assaulted his wife, tried to strangle her, so they need to check criminal records.

You need to do a lot more detailed assessment when these things are going on. This isn't just someone who is imagining things in the neighborhood. This is someone who has violent behavior. And when you have violent behavior and untreated mental illness, your risk for violence goes up 15 times.

And this is where professionals need to do more. But we need changes in the law. What I pushed for before in my bill and I couldn't get -- and I intend it push this again, Jake -- is the idea of change in the HIPAA laws so they can talk about these details with the family.

TAPPER: That's the health privacy laws.

MURPHY: Health privacy.

TAPPER: Being able to tell his brother, his half-brother, his half- sister, we think he needs to stay here, perhaps even be committed. Will you help us?


Also call them up and say, what else can you tell us about his background and history? I don't know if they did that. The FBI talked with the family, we understand. I don't know what the other doctors did. And what kind of risk assessment did they do?

That's actually a very skilled set that law enforcement, FBI and psychologists and psychiatrists need to be working together on as a team, a multidisciplinary team to do this.

TAPPER: I have to say, this guy was a walking red flag.

MURPHY: Absolutely.

TAPPER: As you note, he had beaten his girlfriend or his wife. He had been trained to kill as a soldier. I am not blaming it on that. But like he had the skills and also a loaded weapon, and obviously he was saying he was hearing things.

He was saying that ISIS was involved, the CIA was making him watch ISIS videos. And the idea that the FBI would then hand him back his gun after he after -- after he logged out of the hospital, checked out of the hospital, shouldn't the FBI be able to like, well, I don't know if we should give this gun back to you? [16:45:04] MURPHY: Precisely, but this is where I don't think that FBI agents are getting trained in what a -- what a violence risk assessment really is. They're trained to look at other things like to find out if he had links with ISIS and look at his records, et cetera. I understand that his MySpace page and other things that may have been some other science there, but someone you wonder if they put all the pieces together. So, what I recognize, my bill, when we talk about my bill was passed law and signed with the president in December -- when I say we didn't get everything we needed, but we needed everything we got, well, we have to go back and revisit this and reintroduce parts of this bill. Say we've to change some HIPAA Laws, we have to make sure that people are getting some training in risk assessment, we've got to make sure that we have more providers at there. I mean, the State of Alaska has 89 psychiatrists in that entire state. I don't know, their hospital beds are apparently understaffed, too, but this happens all across the nation. And it's why we've done some important things in what we passed, but we have a long way to go because of these glaring examples.

TAPPER: I have to say, if I were a victim, or if I had a relative who is wounded in this, and I heard, everything I heard about this guy that we know, and that the FBI handed him back his loaded gun and then he went to the airport and he checked in, he had a permit for it and all of that, and he was allowed to fly across the country with it in stored luggage, in checked luggage, I would be stunned that society was not doing more to protect me. And I have to say, isn't the gun lobby trying to push back against any attempt by people like you who want to keep guns out of the hands of people who have serious, violent mental problems?

MURPHY: I think the gun lobby is cooperative in saying people with serious mental illness should not have a weapon. The issue here is the laws hold everybody back, and this is where, I hope the families speak up, I mean, I'm upset about this, and I'm sure they're furious about this, is, what's wrong with the law, that we protected his right to be sick, his right to therefore have a weapon. Shouldn't we have been looking at his right to get treatment and the family's right to know, to help here? Something is askew with our laws, and that's why we would be honest enough in readdresses and change them.

TAPPER: But if you know the guy -- if you were there, if you were at the FBI office and you saw this guy and you heard his story, and the FBI agent turned to you and say -- said, "Congressman, should I give him back his gun?" What would you say?

MURPHY: Well, you look at his history.

TAPPER: Doesn't the law require it, though?

MURPHY: Well, if you see that he has a violent history, he has been arrested before for attacking his wife, he is hearing voices, this command voices, you have to look at the kind of delusions, hallucinations he's have. That's saying, you're not going to get an answer in four days post hospitalization, the very things his brother said. You have to look at stabilization on medication. You have -- this is a very careful sophisticated review that's done. In most case, that's not done. Most psychologists aren't trained in this, too. So, it is a matter of being systematic and breaking away some of these legal barriers we have, so you really can do this assessment with family, and they can be treated.

TAPPER: All right. When you try to fix these holes that are in your bill, you'll come back, you let us know, we'll talk more. Thank you so much. Always good to see you, Congressman.

Anytime, anywhere, that's the message from Kim Jong-un about his missile system he claims could reach the United States. Plus, Kim supposed message for the Trump administration. Stay with us.


[16:50:00] TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD, our "WORLD LEAD" now. North Korean Leader, Kim Jong-un, celebrated his 33rd birthday the only way he could, threatening to launch an intercontinental ballistic missile that theoretically might be able to reach the continental U.S., "anytime, anyplace", he said. The Pentagon pledge, they would shoot down any such missile and activate the missile defense systems deployed in South Korea. Let's bring in CNN International Correspondent, Paula Hancocks. Paula, how credible is this new threat from North Korea. Is North Korea's ICBM program even complete?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, no one here in South Korea, or the U.S. really, believes that they have a complete ICBM program. But they do believe that they are close. They're still working on that re-entry technology. It's not simple and they haven't tested it. But the -- what the U.S. and South Korean officials are doing are taking North Korea at its word. They say simply it's too dangerous not to when you see what Kim Jong-un has done over the last 12 months. Never in the history of North Korea have we seen such intense testing of the nuclear missile program. And we also saw the U.S. Defense Secretary on Sunday reacting to this, showing the level of concern, saying that, if North Korea fires a missile towards U.S. territory, they will shoot it down. And even if it fires something towards one of the allies of the United States, they will shoot it down.

TAPPER: And Paula, any --


ASH CARTER, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Their nuclear weapons and ballistic missile defense programs are a serious threat to us. We try to stay ahead of that, if it were threatening to us, yes, that is a predicted impact, or one of our friends or allies, yes, we would shoot it down.


HANCOCKS: Now, there was also a message for President-elect Donald Trump in this statement from the North Korean foreign ministry official, saying that, if you want a better relationship, we are ready to talk, saying, quote, "Anyone who wants to deal with the DPRK would be well advised to secure a new way of thinking after having clear understanding of it." Now, remember, back in November as well, a North Korean foreign ministry official actually said, "We're not going to carry out any actions until we know exactly what Trump's North Korean policy is.", leaving the way open for potential negotiations. And that's the key factor here, South Korean officials say, "North Korea is nervous. They simply don't know how Trump is going to deal with North Korea. They don't know his policy and Kim Jong-un does not know how far he can push him. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Paula Hancocks in Seoul, South Korea. Thank you so much.

More, in our "WORLD LEAD", a U.S. Navy ship fired warning shots at Iranian boats on Sunday. Pentagon official say, five Iranian boats came so close so fast toward three U.S. Navy ships. At one point, some of the Iranian vessels were only 900 yards away from the USS Mahan. The confrontation lasted for nearly nine hours, the Pentagon said, until warning shots were fired and smoke grenades were dropped in the water.

[16:55:00] The incident is the latest encounter in recent months, between the two countries, specifically near or in the Strait of Hormuz. Back in August, a U.S. Navy ship fired three warning shots in an Iranian Revolutionary Guard boat, after U.S. official said, it had harassed that patrol craft. And about a year ago, you might remember, Iran detained 10 American sailors for about 15 hours after two U.S. Navy command boats entered Iranian territorial waters.

Trump's picks for the Pentagon and the CIA, are both heading to Capitol Hill this week. We'll talk to Senator Tom Cotton, who serves on the committees that will be conducting those confirmation hearings, next.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN THE SITUATION ROOM: "HAPPENING NOW", Russia's summit. As, Donald Trump downplays Russian cyber-attacks that cause for a good relationship with Moscow. The Kremlin makes plans for a meeting between Trump -