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Wolf

I.G. Launching Investigation of Justice Dept., FBI in Clinton Case; Gen. Mattis Questioned in Confirmation Hearing for Defense Secretary. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired January 12, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00] GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: And then the follow-up letter saying we're going to reopen the investigation and then closing it -- closing it down again. If you talk to the Clinton people, as we all do, they believe this was dispositive in their loss of the election.

I think that the inspector general is doing what an inspector general should do. They are the watchdog. They are trying to make sure that people respect the FBI and that the FBI plays by its own rules. And i think this is an agency that has been damaged by what occurred during the campaign. And there clearly have been requests for investigations. And i think that playing it out internally and having an independent watchdog investigate this is probably better, from their point of view, than having Jason Chaffetz do it on Capitol Hill publicly.

So, in the end, if i were in the FBI, i would probably welcome this because there was a lot of internal dissent at the time, as we all know, about just how this unfolded.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And let's be honest, although people who are running Oversight Committees in Congress take their jobs very seriously, they are partisan, and they are led by Republicans now, who don't have a political interest in finding out what really happened at the FBI. This is the inspector general's job, as you said. This is why that department exists within the FBI, and many other government agencies, to make sure that they are on the straight and narrow. But, boy, talk about picking at a scab, which is maybe not even remotely beginning to heal, politically, i'm talking about, about this whole election, that this is one of the main things that drives Democrats crazy.

(CROSSTALK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Dana, hold on for one moment.

The White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest is being asked about it. He's speaking Let's listen in.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: -- in view of the situation and based their own knowledge of the facts and, hopefully, they will follow whatever -- follow the evidence where it leads, if they find any evidence. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) not exactly territorial waters but

the (INAUDIBLE). I wonder if you had a reaction to that and if the U.S. government stepped in in any way to defuse that situation.

EARNEST: I don't have a formal U.S. government response to that matter to share with you. We can see if there was any reciprocal action or response from the U.S. with regard to that specific operation that was carried out by the Chinese navy.

What i can tell you is, you know, we have long encouraged both sides to look for ways to prevent tensions from escalating. And we believe that -- look, one of the goals of our One China policy is to prevent tensions from escalating, both because we don't want tensions about that matter to interfere with our ability to work with China on a range of areas where we can make progress together. But also, because, obviously, we value our interactions with the Taiwanese, including with regard to our training relationship with them. So --

BLITZER: We're going to break away from Josh Earnest. He gave a brief little reaction to the Department of Justice inspector general announcing there will be a full-scale investigation. Several matters, and largely involving the Hillary Clinton e-mail server that were investigated and statements made by the FBI director, among others, during the course of the presidential campaign.

I interrupted you, Dana. Finish your thought.

BASH: I was just talking about how this is necessary, particularly because the Republicans are in charge of Congress and about how this is, you know, very much wanted by Democrats. But depending on what the inspector general finds, it could throw our then-will be our president into a tailspin because there is nothing that makes him more crazy, more than suggesting that he didn't win the presidency fair and square and that there is any question about the legitimacy of his taking office. And so, that's why this inspector general's report, which, no question, it's hard to imagine it's going to come out in the next week if they do their due diligence, will come out when he's already in office, is going to be fascinating.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Just to echo Dana's point, we already have and we've been talking about it for days and weeks, this Russia question, the interference in the election. The question, did it influence the election. The intelligence community has not made a judgment on that, but there's a portion of the country that believes it did. And that clearly riles the president-elect and his supporters. Now you have this, which Democrats have been claiming for some time that Comey interfered improperly.

And both of those things are going to continue as issues. You're going to have hearings, talk of sanctions on Russia, cyber responses, et cetera that's going to continue for weeks and months. This investigation is going to continue for months on two fronts.

I should note that, to be fair, it's not just about that, right? Because it also talks about possible -- not bad behavior but improper behavior by the assistant A.G. sharing information with the Clinton campaign. But then -- and you made this note, Wolf -- with all investigations -- I mean, just think of Whitewater. It may have start on one front, it gives that open-ended end there, saying and we may look into other issues. Who knows where it goes.

[13:35:27] BORGER: How does this affect James Comey as he does his job? He's early on into a 10-year term.

BASH: That's true.

BORGER: He's got a long way to go.

BLITZER: He's got seven years to go.

BORGER: But he's one of the key people in the group advising the president-elect on all kinds of issues, particularly national security, as in the Russia hack. And the question is, how do the Democrats relate to James Comey while he's under investigation, and what does he have to recuse himself from, going forward, given the fact that the I.G. is investigating him?

BLITZER: I want to get Symone and Kayleigh's quick reaction -- Symone?

SYMONE SANDERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I want to know, not a day ago, Director Comey said, and I quote, "i would never comment on investigations, whether we have one in open forum." I had the big-eye emoji, like, were you not here during the election?

(LAUGHTER)

So i definitely think this is needed. Director Comey broke precedent with the Justice Department. And Democrats, we want to get to the bottom of this. We were begging Director Comey to come out with proper information. He dragged his feet. He will tell you he doesn't have a political bone in his body, is politically aloof. And I think we all agree here. Now there are consequences for your actions. I hope the inspector general comes up with something.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the FBI director gets a very bad rap, particularly when it comes to the October letter. As Pamela mentioned, he was subject to two crosscutting obligations on his part. One is to not interfere with the election and one is to update his congressional testimony. And we know the IRS chief, John Koskinen, was in trouble for not updating Congress with regard to his testimony. He didn't want to fall victim to that. He was in an unenviable position and he received criticism from Republicans in July, criticism from Democrats in November, and I think he's a man of upstanding character and I think he will emerge from this after long scrutiny unscathed.

BLITZER: Everybody stand by.

There's more breaking news coming in. Donald Trump's pick for secretary of defense, General James Mattis, faced some very tough questions from the Senators in his confirmation hearing, but also, he got some kind words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Members of the committee, this man, Jim Mattis, brings to the job of the secretary of defense a great and brave heart. And i hope you will vote to confirm him quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The former defense secretary, William Cohen, is here with us. We'll talk about General Mattis' hearing right after a quick break.

(LAUGHTER)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:41:37] BLITZER: Welcome back. We've been watching the confirmation hearing of retired U.S. Marine Corps General James Mattis. He's President-elect Donald Trump's choice to become the next secretary of defense. General Mattis is the former head of the U.S. Military's Central Command. He's a former NATO supreme allied commander. He's also very well respected here in Washington.

Here's some of the highlights from the hearing starting with the issue of the United States dealing with Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JAMES MATTIS, FORMER HEAD, U.S. CENTRAL COMMANDER & FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLILED COMMANDER & SECRETARY OF DEFENSE NOMINEE: Russia, to quote the chairman's opening statement, "has chosen to be a strategic competitor." They are an adversary in key areas. And while we should always engage and look for areas of cooperation -- and even in the worst years of the Cold War, President Reagan, Secretary Schultz were able to work with Russia, the Soviet Union at that time, and reduce the nuclear weapons. So i'm all for engagement.

But we also have to recognize reality and what Russia is up to. And there's a decreasing number of areas where we can engage cooperatively, and an increasing number of areas where we're going to have to confront Russia.

We have to deliver a very hard blow against ISIS in the Middle East so that there's no sense of invulnerability or invincibility there. There's got to be a military defeat of them there. But it must, as you point out, be a much broader approach. This requires an integrated strategy, so you don't squeeze them in one place and then they develop in another, and we really are right back to square one. We've got to have an integrated strategy on this. And it's got to be one that goes after the recruiting and their fundraising, as well as delivering a military blow against them in the Middle East.

I would see us maintain the strongest possible relationship with NATO.

SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN, (D), NEW HAMPSHIRE: Thank you.

And are you concerned about some of the statements that President- elect Trump has made with respect to our historic European allies and to NATO and how -- have you had a chance to have discussions with him? And how confident are you that he recognizes what you have just said about the importance of those relationships?

MATTIS: Senator, i have had discussions with him on this issue. He has shown himself open, even to the point of asking more questions, going deeper into the issue about why i feel so strongly. He understands where i stand.

UNIDENTIFIED SENATOR: Do you plan to oppose women serving in these combat roles?

MATTIS: I have no plan to oppose women in any aspect of our military.

Because the U.S. military is devoted to be in the top in its game in a competition where second place is last place, we should not simply be turning to the military, because it's a very capable military, because it's well led. It's now a national treasure. I'm the first to admit that. But it doesn't mean we should be turning to the military to answer all of our concerns in our relations with the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's bring in our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr.

Barbara, what's the immediate reaction from top U.S. military commanders to this nomination of General Mattis to become the civilian leader at the Department of Defense, the secretary of defense?

[13:44:57] BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The secretary of defense after serving some 45 years or so, just a little under that, in the U.S. Marine Corps. One of the most plainspoken generals out there. And I think, up and down the halls of the Pentagon today, as people listened to this hearing, it was the Jim Mattis that they know, especially on the question of Russia. General Mattis being a little diplomatic there, but clearly, repeatedly, he differed from Donald Trump. This is a general who has no rose-colored glasses about Russia or about Vladimir Putin.

And let's look at this, why it's so important. It's not just politics. It's not just Washington rhetoric. This is the man who will be advising President Trump about when and if to send U.S. troops overseas. And he is skeptical about Russia. There's no question about it. And the current Joint -- chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Dunford, also a Marine, a long-time friend of General Mattis, also skeptical about Russia. General Dunford has called Russia's behavior alarming, has called them an existential threat to the United States.

And it doesn't stop there, Wolf. Earlier today, we saw the nominee to be CIA director, Mike Pompeo, very clear eyed about Russia's cyber activities. And the man coming up to be the director of National Intelligence, former Senator Dan Coats, already banned by the Russians from coming back into that country because of his support for sanctions.

So, where we are today is the table has been set. Four of Donald Trump's most-key military and national security advisers having very sober-minded views, very cautionary views about Russia and Vladimir Putin.

BLITZER: Very traditional U.S. views, as well.

Barbara, thanks very much.

I want to bring in the former defense secretary, William Cohen, who is with us. He introduced General Mattis at his confirmation hearing this morning.

A vote of confidence for you. Even though he's only been out, Secretary Cohen, for three years -- supposed to be out for seven years -- he'll get a waiver in order to become the defense secretary. Are you comfortable with a military man taking over what is civilian leadership of the Department of Defense?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: I'm comfortable with "this" military man taking over the leadership as the civilian head. I've known him for years. I've watched him in the military and out of the military. He is a -- not only a warrior but a scholar. And the combination of his humanity -- and that's what i wanted the committee to really focus on is who he is as a human, as his character reveals. He's somebody that the military men and women love because he loves them and will take care of them. And i believe that he has the objectivity to give the president-elect objective advice.

I want to come back to the --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: On the objective advice, he clearly is not afraid to say to the president-elect, you're wrong, here's what's i believe. He is willing to stand up on issues like Russia or torture or cyberattack issues like that.

COHEN: Right. But he serves at the pleasure at the president. Whether it's Rex Tillerson at state or Mattis at DOD, whatever their views are, they either have to persuade the president he's wrong or they have to make the accommodation saying, i made my best case and i wasn't successful, but i support this president and I will do whatever i can to make it better. Those are the choices. It's not whether General Mattis has a negative opinion toward Russia, it's whether the president does.

BLITZER: When you were Bill Clinton's secretary of defense, did you -- I assume you had to face those choices. Sometimes he agreed with you. Sometimes he said, you're wrong.

COHEN: I think on two occasions we disagreed.

BLITZER: That's all?

COHEN: Only on two occasions.

BLITZER: Really?

COHEN: Really. Yeah.

BLITZER: Did he win out on both occasions?

COHEN: They were minor concessions i had to make.

(LAUGHTER)

No, he's the president. Whoever is the president gets to decide.

And one of the problems that i have with what's now happening and what's descending over Washington, once again, is a notion of, why does President-elect Trump have such a bromance with President Putin. And it comes back to the issue there has not been full disclosure. I think there have to be three questions asked. Number one, what do you own? Number two, how much do you owe? Number three, to whom do you owe it? Those three issues, if you answer those, and that means tax returns, that means tell the American people what you have or who you owe and how much. Unless you do that, they are going to continue to be clouds saying, how come we have such a relationship between the president-elect and President Putin? There's something going on. And that's something that's going on will start to filter out in rumor, speculation, totally unfounded allegations and so forth.

And what's most distressing to me, i don't want to see another cloud descend on the presidency. We're a week away, a few days away and, once again, we're back into what happened to President Bush when he got elected, 43. Suddenly, unless 9/11 came along, we were going to question whether or not the Bush presidency was authentic? Did he win legitimately, et cetera? I don't want doubt cast over the president of the United States. I want this country to be united and to go forward. I don't think it's going to happen until you have full disclosure.

[13:50:12] BLITZER: Do you think, based on everything we've seen -- Jim Sciutto is with us. He's done a lot of work on this as well.

Do you see any evidence that the president-elect is ready to disclose the information you want? Certainly, on his tax returns, he says not disclosing any of those tax returns because they're under audit.

COHEN: I think that's what he said but, frankly, if he wants to dispel the cloud of suspicion, which I think needs to be dispelled, because if we want him to succeed, we have to understand it, why is it that you have such an affection for president -- beyond the flattery that's going back and forth, what is it that drives you to have this relationship with Russia.

Now, I agree with General Mattis. I want a better relationship with Russia. I have traveled to Russia on multiple occasions. i want to establish a mutually beneficial relationship. You can only do it, not only on Vladimir Putin's terms, on mutually beneficial terms. And to have that mutual beneficial relationship, you have to have disclosure. BLITZER: What the secretary is saying, Jim, is there could be a cloud

hanging over this new president of the United States unless he discloses fully any financial arrangements, for example, he might have with the Russians.

SCIUTTO: The questions is, does he want to dispel the questions, right? On the financial side, we saw this attempt yesterday with a somewhat unorthodox -- i'm not a lawyer -- arrangements regarding his holdings. We had experts on the air who said this does not resolve the conflicts of interest. So, because of that, it's going to continue to be a question, whether the president-elect likes it or not. On these other issues, with Russia, with the intelligence community, does he come out with definitive statements, right, 1 100 percent believe the Russian, we have to respond, I believe the intelligence community is not politicized on this issue. You know, that kind of thing. Because words matter. Words matter from the bully pulpit of the White House. Does the president-elect feel compelled to do that? It doesn't appear so yet, but we'll see.

BLITZER: Secretary Cohen, a lot of people will say, hearing what you're saying -- and I'll ask you the question bluntly -- what are you insinuating?

COHEN: I'm insinuating that there has not been full disclosure AS there have been over the years with presidential candidates, saying, here are my tax returns, here's to whom I am indebted, these are the potential conflicts that I have. That is unprecedented where we have a situation where the president has refused to disclose that. What I'm saying is that lend itself to skepticism and cynicism.

And i want to go back to what Dana said earlier when you were talking about the intelligence issues.

To me -- Dana, you made the point, you have to take it out of the hands of Congress because it's Republican dominated now.

BASH: It's not that you have to. It's that i don't think they're actually going do it.

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: No, no. But you're suggesting, because of it being a partisan type of investigation --

BASH: I just don't -- I think they're actually going to investigate. I think, if it's partisan, they should investigate. I'm just not --

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: What I'm saying is, the implication is, it's better for the I.G. to do it here because, up on the Hill, it's all -- that, to me, has been frustrating. I served 20 years for the Intelligence Committee while i was on the Hill. It was bipartisan.

BASH: Absolutely.

COHEN: There were no partisan issues. Our intelligence should not be politicized.

So now we have question, not only whether the elections were legitimate or unduly influenced, but can we trust the intelligence community? That puts us in a very difficult position globally --

BASH: Right.

COHEN: -- at a time when there's so many crises that are out there waiting to come on to the full agenda, and we're debating now, was he properly elected, was their undue influence, what is the Russian role, did the FBI really inject it, all of these issues. Now, we're eight days away from Mr. T4rump becoming president of the United States.

BASH: If only things worked the way they worked when you worked in Congress.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Nothing is perfect. But you're right. I mean, look, this president said he was going to come in and drain the swamp. We're not sure exactly what that means and we'll see how it goes forward. But we do have to keep in mind there's a connecter in what we are talking about, whether in foreign policy or his business interests. It's so obvious but bears saying out loud, he's never done this before, like anything like this. However, he's a man who comes from a place where he's had such huge success being who he is, and it's -- hopefully, it's going to be a learning curve for him to realize that being president of the United States is not being president of Trump Organization.

COHEN: But that speaks well to people like Tillerson, assuming he's going to get confirmed, and General Mattis, assuming he's gets confirmed, and others, who are going to be adults in the room, saying, Mr. President, this is how we see it, this is what we think you should do. And I assume the president's going to want to be successful. And if he's not going to listen to his top advisors, he won't be successful and we won't be successful.

BORGER: Mr. Secretary, you were, I believe on the last true bipartisan committee in the Congress, the Iran/Contra Committee, which had a Democratic chairman and a Republican chairman.

BLITZER: We only have a few seconds.

BORGER: Could that happen now?

COHEN: It should happen, but it probably won't.

BLITZER: Bipartisan cooperation in an investigation --

(CROSSWALK)

(LAUGHTER)

[13:55:13] BLITZER: -- on Capitol Hill.

I'm sure he's listening, so he's listening to his recommendations. We'll see if he follows through.

Secretary Cohen, thanks very much for joining us.

After a quick break, we'll continue our special coverage of the breaking news, the inspector general of the U.S. Justice Department launching a full-scale investigation of the Justice Department and the FBI. Much more right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:12] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go. Top of the hour. You're watching --