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House Vote on Obamacare Repeal; House Members Get Russian Intel Briefing; Cabinet Picks Stray from Trump Rhetoric. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 13, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Jim Sciutto, in today for Wolf Blitzer. We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world.

In just seven days, Donald Trump will be sworn in as the 45th president of the United States, right behind us here in front of the capitol.

And right now, House Republicans are putting a plan in motion to fulfill one of his key campaign promises, that is repeal and replace Obamacare.

In about two hours, the House is voting on a budget resolution that lays the groundwork for repealing the Affordable Care Act. President- elect took to Twitter, as he does, today, to applaud the move. He tweeted, quote, "The unAffordable Care Act will soon be history!"

Mr. Trump says the repeal and the replacement will happen almost simultaneously, and House speaker, Paul Ryan, echoed that in a CNN town hall with Jake Tapper just last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. PAUL RYAN, U.S. SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We want to do this at the same time and, in some cases, in the same bill. So, we want to advance repealing this law with its replacement at the same time.

Now, I don't have a date, but that's something we're working on right now. And it's going to take us a little bit of time. But we're working on this as fast as possible.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: In the first hundred days?

RYAN: Yes, oh, yes. It's something definitely is a plan within the first hundred days to get moving on this legislature.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN Senior Political Reporter Manu Raju joins us now live from Capitol Hill on today's vote just a couple hours from now. Manu, explain how this budget resolution, that they're voting on today, actually paves the way for taking the step of repealing Obamacare. MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Jim, this budget resolution is expected to pass the House this afternoon. And once it does pass, it will actually instruct the committees of Congress to develop legislation that would repeal much of the Affordable Care Act.

Now, what that repeal legislation actually has special authority where it cannot be blocked by filibuster in the Senate. That means it can -- much of the law could be repealed on a party line vote without Democratic support.

But there are a lot of hang-ups. Namely, you can't repeal all the law through this special process. And what do you replace it with? Republicans are not in agreement behind any single replacement plan, and that's why some Republican moderates are very nervous, asking their party leaders to hit the brakes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHARLIE DENT (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Yes, I think the repeal plan needs to be fully developed and better articulated prior to moving forward. I have some reservations about moving as quickly as we are. I'm very concerned specifically on the policy side that the replacement either for simultaneously or as close to simultaneously as possible.

If we don't provide a credible replacement plan, my main concern is that there would not be any gaps in coverages for people who are currently subsidized.

Also concerned on how the insurance market might react.

RAJU (on camera): Would you urge the leadership to slow down on the repeal?

DENT: Well, look, I have -- I have already had that conversation in with leadership, encouraging them to be a bit more deliverative (ph), in trying to chart out the full strategy, you know, from repeal and replace. And to make sure that we are in full sync with the Senate as well as the incoming White House. I don't think we're quite there yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU (live): Now, Jim, if they were to be more deliberate, they would actually get some pushback from conservatives who want a very quick timetable, so it just gives you a taste of the challenges ahead on the timetable alone.

And we're not even debating the policy measures themselves. And that's bound to create more debate within the Republican conference, and let alone Democrats are going to be opposed to a lot of what Republicans want to do here -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Exactly, what does that replacement plan look like? Manu, thanks very much. I want to bring in our panel now to talk about the effort to get rid of and replace Obamacare. We have CNN Political Analyst David Gregory. He's author of "How's Your Faith?" CNN Political Analyst and "USA Today" columnist Kirsten Powers. And our Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash. Thanks, to all of you, for today.

My question is really simple. Maybe I'll start with you but please feel free to pipe in. Do the Republicans actually have a plan to replace Obamacare?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the problem is they have lots of plans --

SCIUTTO: Right.

BASH: -- to replace Obamacare, and they have to streamline it. And, more importantly, they have to figure out -- you know, as Manu was saying, right now, there's a debate among Republicans about the process. About when it's going to happen. How quickly can it happen?

And that's a vigorous debate because it's about, you know, the promises that these members feel that they made to their constituents. At the same time, it's how quickly should it happen, given the fact that another promise that they have made to their constituents is that people are not going to be left in --

SCIUTTO: Right.

BASH: -- the lurch without health care.

So, that is what Speaker Ryan and the president-elect are going to have to deal with.

[13:05:03] The other -- just quickly before I let my friends here weigh in. The thing that fascinates me, having spent so much time on the Hill and watching the Republican ranker, is the freedom caucus, once again, saying, oh, we want to do things quickly.

This is the caucus that gave John Boehner a headache. You know, it was the -- it was the reason he ended up leaving. Has been giving Paul Ryan a headache.

And the question has been whether or not the fact that there is Donald Trump in the White House would give the leadership a little bit more breathing room with this caucus and this will be the first test.

SCIUTTO: But the Conservative Freedom Caucus expressing its own hesitation here. Kirsten, just for folks at home who have Obamacare, they might rely on it, should they have confidence that a Republican replacement plan will allow them to keep some form of coverage?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I'm -- not at this point, I don't think so, because I don't think they've really come up with anything that is the same as Obamacare which is basically providing universal coverage for -- you know, for many more people than were originally on Obamacare. And I think one of the challenges for the Republicans is that, even though you have Republicans come in and now talking about repealing Obamacare and have all the power to do it, Obama successfully changed the conversation in this country to much closer to what most advanced nations believe which is that health care is a right, not a privilege.

SCIUTTO: Right.

KIRSTEN: And so, now, people really believe that.

And you see polls that have a very low number of people basically saying just repeal it without replacing it. Don't throw these people off of insurance.

And so, it's really incumbent. Republicans are, kind of, in a box because they do want to repeal it.

But he did successfully change this conversation and there is an expectation that these people should have coverage.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: There's so many level -- layers under this, because I think Republicans have a method, they don't have a real plan.

They know they've got to repeal because that's the -- that's the million-dollar political job to do which is to repeal it. They couldn't do it before.

What I think congressional Republicans are worried about is where is Trump on this exactly? What is he prepared to do? There's a lot of work he's going to have to do if he's going to go out there and campaign for these individual elements to rebuild Obamacare in his own image. And then, have it become Trumpcare.

Is he going to expend all that political capital or is he going to sit back? Let the Republicans who are in control of Congress do it and then maybe blame them if things go south because they didn't do it in a certain way?

You also have the poor who are benefitting from expanded Medicaid across the country, including in Republican-run states, who could be left out of this. And you have Democrats, very few of whom are really willing to negotiate in good faith.

What they're ready to do is stand pat and say, you're going to leave people without insurance and it will be on you. And how much longer until the midterms?

I mean, don't forget the damage done because of Obamacare in his first midterm. Democrats are keeping an eye on the clock (ph) now.

SCIUTTO: You know, it's interesting. A lot of the talk, including from the president-elect, is about who ends up owning this, right? Who gets blamed for it.

And talk to you from his tweets, Donald Trump reading into them about, you know, can we manage this in such a way that any problems are the Democrats' problems? And we'll get all the credit for, you know, the great stuff that follows.

I mean, how -- is it possible to work that?

GREGORY: It's very hard. Also, this is such a political calculation. What about the work that has already been done for implementation? It's been hard. It's been unsuccessful in some areas. Successful in other areas.

You know, with Social Security and Medicare, it was tweaked along the way but not totally reverse reversed. I think that's a big issue.

There are hospital systems. There are health care systems, insurance companies who have made the adjustment to implement this. To just start over again, that could be incredibly disruptive.

SCIUTTO: So, Kirsten and Dana, before we go, Paul Ryan, last night, talked again about this. It's going to be sanctioned (ph) simultaneous, right? You're going to repeal and you're going to replace.

How can it be simultaneous if you don't have that key second step in there?

POWERS: I don't think it can be simultaneous. I don't see how they do it.

And I also think another problem for them is that the -- Obamacare is based on exchanges and that, really, was a Republican idea originally. So, if -- to the extent that they ever had an idea that involved universal health care, it was the exchanges.

The other things they talk about, like selling across state lines or health savings accounts, that'll help around the margins. But they're not really going to do a lot about the number of uninsured that Obama has gotten on the roles.

SCIUTTO: And (INAUDIBLE.)

BASH: And just -- I think what they are trying to do, process-wise, when they say that they want to do it simultaneously, is to pass the -- pass the law that says repeal but not to have that go into effect. The repeal doesn't go into effect until the replace takes place.

That's, I think, what they're trying to do. Whether they can do it,

POWERS: Yes.

BASH: -- who knows?

But the other thing is, just to, sort of, add to what these guys said, what Rahm Emanuel, who was then Barack Obama's chief of staff said as they were really shoving Obamacare through, trying to get all of the Democrats on board back at the beginning of the Obama -- in the beginning of the Obama years was when Americans have a benefit, it is going to be very hard to take it away from them.

And to your point, that is what we are facing now.

SCIUTTO: Yes, once people have a benefit, they don't want to give it up.

[13:10:01] Dana, Kirsten, David, thanks as always.

Coming up, a programming note. Be sure to join us tonight for history made the legacy of Michelle Obama. It's a CNN special report, chronicling the first lady's journey from Chicago to the world. That is tonight at 9:00 Eastern time and Pacific time here on CNN.

And up next, today handling Russia. I'm going to speak with two members of Congress, a Republican and a Democrat, who were briefed today by intelligence officials on Russian meddling in the election. And I'll ask what they were told about that hacking investigation and about the synopsis of Russian allegations against President-elect Trump, first reported by CNN.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. A sunny day here in Washington.

The showdown over Obamacare will play out on the House floor later this afternoon. As Republicans in the House look to follow their Senate colleagues by voting on the effort to repeal the health care law.

I want to bring in, now, two House members, a Republican and a Democrat. We have Massachusetts Democrat, Seth Moulton; and Illinois Republican, Adam Kinzinger. I should mention, both of them are military veterans.

Thanks very much for taking the time today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You bet.

SCIUTTO: So, I'm going to start with you, Representative Kinzinger.

[13:15:00] REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R), ILLINOIS: All right.

SCIUTTO: You're a Republican.

KINZINGER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Do Republicans have a plan to replace Obamacare?

KINZINGER: Yes, I think, you know, when people ask for plans, they want us to come out with this 2,000 page, kind of like what Obamacare was originally, a replacement plan.

SCIUTTO: I'd take bullet points. Give me bullet points of what you're (INAUDIBLE). KINZINGER: Yes. So the bullet points are this. What we're going to do today is pass the vehicle. We're basically like starting the car that's ultimately going to drive the repeal and replace, and that's through this mechanism called reconciliation. We will replace the bill, but then through, you know, Tom Price's HHS secretary, there's regulatory things he can do, we can begin to pass pieces of the replace without a big comprehensive 2,000 page bill, but doing it in front of the American people and selling this, what we need to do. And I think -

SCIUTTO: So what are you going to replace it with? So folks at home -

KINZINGER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Twenty million Americans who are taking advantage of this right now, for themselves and their families, give an example of what you're going to replace in the current law that will be in the new Republican law.

KINZINGER: Yes, well I think what's very clear is, you know, we're not going to be ripping health care away from people. We've made that very clear. That's not going to be what happens. We want something that works because this is failing on its own right now anyway. Opening up cross-state competition, you know, expanding health savings accounts to allow people to competitively shop not just for health insurance, but also for health care, so you drive quality up and cost down. And there's a lot of different regulatory things that can come into play and that's going to be the process here.

SCIUTTO: I'd like your reaction. Do you think that's a reasonable replacement? Will it work?

REP. SETH MOULTON (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I think with all due respect to my colleague and friend Adam, it's a very eloquent way to say, we don't have a plan. And the car that we're starting to drive here, the Republicans are starting to drive to borrow your analogy, is going to drive 20 million Americans off a cliff with no health care. And that's - and that's frightening. And, in fact, when you listen to Republicans say what they want to see in the new law, a lot of the things are things that Obamacare provided, like no discrimination based on preexisting conditions. I mean here you have -

SCIUTTO: President-elect Trump said the same.

MOULTON: That's right. Health care, you know, the 26-year - for 26- year-olds. So there are a lot of things about the ACA that I think everybody in Congress wants to preserve. The bottom line is, if Republicans would admit it, what we want to do is just preserve the ACA and be willing to tweak it and fix it. That's always been my position. It's not a perfect health care law, but it needs to be fixed. We don't need to repeal it and put an awful lot of Americans out on the street with no health care at all.

SCIUTTO: How do you respond?

KINZINGER: Well, I think you're going to be seeing a lot of and, you know, look, it happens on both sides, a lot of scare tactics about what this means. And let's just be very clear, Republicans are not going to rip people off of their health care. You're going to hear people say it. It's not going to happen.

And so what we want to do is, look, you know, I have farmers in my district that called me and said, you know, my premiums skyrocketed and my deductible is like $10,000 or $15,000. So, in essence, I don't even have health care because I'm paying that deductible every year.

SCIUTTO: Right.

KINZINGER: And so it's failing on its own. So let's fix it. Let's make this work.

SCIUTTO: OK. On to another topic because you, as members of the House, were given a classified, closed session briefing today on the latest intelligence regarding Russian meddling in the election. I know this goes to classified information, so I'm not going to ask you about details. I am going to ask you about your impression. As you left there, are you more convinced of the seriousness of Russian meddling in the election? I'll start with you, Congressman Moulton.

MOULTON: Well, of course, we can't discuss the details, but I think it's very apparent that this is a very serious situation, a national security threat facing the United States of America. It's clear that Vladimir Putin's intention is not just to specifically affect the result of this particular election, although that's apparent as well, but to fundamentally undermine the principles of our democracy. He is a national security threat to the United States. And I think that's why you see Democrats and many Republicans in the Senate confirmation process making such a big deal about whether these Trump nominees are willing to stand up to Russia.

Russia is not our friend. Russia is an enemy of the United States of America, has been for a long time and is even more so under Vladimir Putin.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Kinzinger, Donald Trump - President-elect Donald Trump has been almost dragged kicking and screaming, right -

KINZINGER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: To, one, to say definitively - he now says I think Russia was behind the hacking.

KINZINGER: Right.

SCIUTTO: But also just to describe it as a major problem. Are you comfortable with how the president-elect views this issue? Does he view it seriously enough? Is he taking it seriously enough?

KINZINGER: It's coming along. I've been very critical of how he's viewed it up to this point. And, you know, look, I think what actually happened - and, you know, the problem is a lot of people try to throw cold water on Trump's presidency because of this. They didn't hack the election totals. People voted for Donald Trump. They wanted Donald Trump. They wanted change.

But the bigger issue is, we are sworn, as members of Congress and members of the military, to protect and defend the Constitution. And protecting and defending the Constitution means you have to protect the underlying thing that makes it work. It's just a piece of paper unless people trust that their vote in their election system works. And that was a direct attack on the base of the Constitution, the election system, and it needs to be taken very seriously.

[13:20:04] I'm glad Democrats are joining us now. Seth's always been a good Russian hawk. There haven't been a lot of them. Now they're joining in this understanding of Russia's role in the world and what they're trying to do. And I look forward to working in a bipartisan way to maintain American strength (INAUDIBLE).

SCIUTTO: Final thought before we -

MOULTON: Look, I - I couldn't agree more with Adam and the ways that Russia is fundamentally trying to undermine our democracy. But it's important to say this too. Donald Trump did not win the popular vote. He lost the popular vote. He won by a few hundred thousand votes in key states. And the clear intent of this Russian effort was to influence the minds of Americans. It wasn't to attack our voting boxes or tallies or what not. It was to undermine the opinions of Americans. So I think it's naive to think that the Russians had no influence on Americans when they went to vote.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Moulton, Kinzinger, please stay there -

KINZINGER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Because we have the luxury of time. We're going to come back after a short break. Much more to discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:25:33] SCIUTTO: This week - and it's been a big news week - has also been dominated by the confirmation hearings of some of President- elect Donald Trump's top cabinet picks. Questions have run the gamut. But during the hearings, we have seen nominees break with the president-elect on some very serious policy positions. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JEFF SESSIONS, ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: But I have no belief and do not support the idea that Muslims, as a religious group, should be denied admission to the United States.

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: If you were ordered by the president to restart the CIA's use of enhanced interrogation techniques, that fall outside of the army field manual, would you comply?

REP. MIKE POMPEO, CIA NOMINEE: Senator, absolutely not.

GEN. JAMES MATTIS (RET.), DEFENSE SECRETARY NOMINEE: Senator, I can tell you that in my many years of involvement in the military, I had a close relationship with the intelligence community. I could evaluate their effectiveness at times on a daily basis. And I have very, very high degree of confidence in our intelligence community.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Is it possible for something like this involving the United States elections to have happened without Vladimir Putin knowing about it and authorizing it?

REX TILLERSON, SECRETARY OF STATE NOMINEE: I think that's a fair assumption.

RUBIO: That he would have (INAUDIBLE)?

TILLERSON: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: I want to bring back Illinois Congressman Adam Kinzinger and Massachusetts Congressman Seth Moulton.

Listen, I was listening to those hearings and, you know, cabinet pick after cabinet pick, CIA director, State, Defense, differed with the president-elect on every key national security issue, on torture, on Russia, the seriousness of the problem, on the Iran nuclear deal, on the Muslim ban. I have to ask you a question. Perhaps I'll start with you, Congressman Moulton, who's going to win out on these key decisions? Is the president going to overrule them? What does this all mean?

MOULTON: Well, I hope that the truth wins out here. And, frankly, President-elect Trump is wrong on all of these issues. He was wrong during the campaign. He's wrong now. And now we see officials, professionals, on his own team saying that he's wrong. So what we hope is the truth will win out and - because if it doesn't, we're in a lot of trouble.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Kinzinger, at the end of the day, it is the president -

KINZINGER: Sure.

SCIUTTO: Who is the decider, in the words of George W. Bush.

KINZINGER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: And I know that these - a number of these positions are ones that you've disagreed with the president-elect on.

KINZINGER: Oh, yes.

SCIUTTO: Muslim ban, torture, particularly as a military veteran. Do you have confidence that his cabinet officers are going to be able to - I won't say overrule, but convince him to change his mind on these issues?

KINZINGER: Well, we don't know. And, again, ultimately he was elected president and he's going to be the one that makes these decisions.

This is heartening to me, though, to see people out there not scared to disagree with Donald Trump. I'm sure they've talked to people in the administration about the testimony and what to say. And so the information they were given is, hey, you don't have to fear disagreeing with the president-elect. And if you disagree on issues of Russia or whatever else, say it and we'll support you.

And, you know, we hear people that know Donald Trump that says he likes to put competitive positions around himself and learn from them. Now, we'll see when he's president how that plays out. But for me as a - you know, a Russia hawk, somebody that's concerned with what Russia's doing, I was very heartened by these hearings and I think it hopefully reflects well on the incoming president.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Moulton, you voted against a waiver for General James Mattis. This is a law that's been in place for decades. It requires a military officer to be out of uniform for seven years before becoming defense secretary. And historically only - they've only done it for one, George C. Marshall, before. It's kind of getting forgotten, I think, in all this debate. Tell me why you voted against the waiver.

MOULTON: Well, look, I fully support General Mattis being our next secretary of defense. I've been very public about that. I had an op-ed in "USA Today" saying how important it is to have someone who has the strength and courage to stand up to our president-elect on key issues like torture, like our relationship with Russia in the secretary of defense.

The reason I voted against this change the way the Republicans wrote it in committee is because it totally took the House of Representatives out of the process. And this is a serious matter. Civilian control of the military is enshrined in our Constitution. We need to make sure we have a serious debate and Republicans and Democrats on that committee wanted General Mattis to come and testify. And you know what, General Mattis wanted to come testify too. And you would like to think that General Mattis would be able to win out in that battle with the Trump transition team, but he didn't. He wanted to testify -

[13:30:00] SCIUTTO: You wanted - you wanted a chance to do your job?

MOULTON: We wanted a chance to do our job. I absolutely support General Mattis being our next secretary of defense. He was my division commander back in 2003. He is a warrior scholar. He's the kind of person we need in that position.

But the process here matters.