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President Trump's first few days in office didn't exactly go according to plan; Millions of women along with men and children taking to the streets of cities across the country and around the world ; Aired 11-12p ET
Aired January 23, 2017 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:31] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Is it a moment or a movement? This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Millions of women along with men and children taking to the streets of cities across the country and around the world. Will the people who marched on Saturday still be fighting for change tomorrow or the day after or the day after?
Plus, President Trump's first few days in office didn't exactly go according to plan, but is that par for the course for a new administration.
And the White House getting down to business today with executive actions including quitting TPP a major campaign promise. And attempting to reboot its relationship with the press by putting out a kinder, gentler Sean Spicer. But we may not have seen the last of the so-called alternative facts from the White House.
Let's get right to CNN's Jim Sciutto with some breaking news for us tonight.
Jim, good evening to you. Congressman mike Pompeo was confirmed tonight to lead the CIA. What can we expect from the director?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen. He is a nominee. He is a Republican, but he has the support of many Republicans and Democrats. You speak to them in public and in private as well. It's someone who gets very strong reviews from people on both sides of the aisle.
Listen, as a congressman, he was from, I think you can reasonably say from the right wing of the Republican Party. But in terms of respect, in terms of the way he does his business, plus his background, graduated first in his class from west point, et cetera. People speak highly of him.
Now, he has a challenge on his hands, right, because he has an incoming president who has really picked a fight with the intelligence community particularly over its finding that Russia hacked the election. And its assessment that it did so to aid, whether it was successful or not, but to aid Donald Trump in his victory. We have a President Trump who has disparaged the intelligence community.
Can Mike Pompeo repair that, trust particularly with the rank and file, that's going to be one of his main challenges.
LEMON: You mentioned Russia, Jim, another aspect of this is CNN is learning that U.S. investigators are looking into calls between national security advisor Michael Flynn and the Russian ambassador to the U.S. Explain what this investigation is all about?
SCIUTTO: That's right. Law enforcement intelligence officials tell me and my colleague Evan Perez that they are looking into phone calls, particularly in late December, between Mike Flynn, General Mike Flynn, the national security adviser and the Russian ambassador to the U.S. That this investigation is ongoing. I should say that they have not established so far any wrongdoing by Mike Flynn. But they were looking in this, not only -- they are looking in this, not only at the fact that the calls took place, but they are interested in the content of the calls, the content of the calls raised some potential concerns about those conversations.
I will reiterate, they have found no wrongdoing by Mike Flynn. And I should also make clear that Mike Flynn was not the target of this eavesdropping. These eavesdropping is routine. It is done by intelligence agencies targeting foreign officials, particularly those operating here in the U.S. It just happened on this - on the other end of these conversations was the national security adviser.
LEMON: Jim, Sean Spicer made some claims today about the president's visit to the CIA on Saturday, trying to clean up the mess left from this weekend. What he said, was it accurate?
SCIUTTO: Not entirely, frankly. I mean, he -- Donald Trump went to the CIA and said that the media created the feud - his feud with the intelligence agencies. That is just not true. You know, look them up on the internet, if you don't believe me. Many tweets from the president, many public comments on tape, disparaging, dismissing, undermining the intelligence community. So that's a fact, Donald Trump at the CIA said that the media created it and called us the most dishonest people in the world. The fact is that's not true.
Sean Spicer did not debunk that claim by President Trump today. In fact his answer was somewhat species. I mean, he said there is no dispute with the CIA, and you could tell because there was a five minute standing ovation by CIA staff. Fact is there was no five minute standing ovation. There were claps. You heard it on the tape. But we have people inside in that room and I have spoken to people in the CIA and they said that certainly no CIA senior staff was clapping. They said that a portion of those who were applauding with people who came the Trump team.
There were others in the CIA who did applaud the president who made some of these comments, but my understanding is, this was a kind of self-selecting group that you would volunteer to come in on a Saturday. So it is perhaps conceivable that people who supported the president came in. But it's incorrect to say - one, it is incorrect to say that there was a five minute standing ovation. That's less important. But what's more important is the fact that there were some cheers, does not eliminate the fact that the president has had a public -- I don't want to say feud, because that kind of demeans it, but has publicly and repeatedly disparaged the intelligence community.
[23:05:22] LEMON: Jim Sciutto, thank you so much.
SCIUTTO: Thank you.
LEMON: I want to bring in CNN's Brian Stelter now and contributor Salena Zito.
Good evening to both of you.
Salena, you first. Let's talk about the president's first Monday in office. He is tackling some very big issues, including withdrawing from the TPP, imposing a federal hiring freeze, banning federal money on international abortions. But the White House is also downplaying other things like moving the U.S. embassy in Israel. What do you make of today, Salena?
SALENA ZITO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, all in all, I would say that he had a pretty good day. He had these meetings in the White House. His -- for the most part, his tone was, you know, measured and presidential. The optics were great. He is talking to people. He is signing things. So that part -- and also, he lived up to the things that he said he was going to do. On the first day -- on Saturday, he signed measures to start to repeal Obamacare. Today it was TPP, you know. So these are issues that were important to him.
As far as some of the things he has tried to walk back on -- that happened on Sunday, I mean, honestly, the fight that happened on Sunday should have never happened. Nobody cares about the size of anybody's crowds. And that kind of thing just sort of -- it's part of his personality. Its part of what voters understand he is like. Nonetheless it was an unnecessary foul.
LEMON: Yes. And unforced error.
So Brian, we can also report and I think during the president's first meeting with congressional leaders, he again reiterated the claims that he lost the popular vote because of false claimed. Popular because of widespread voter fraud. Again that's not true. Surely all those elected officials who were in the room, they know it is not true. So why say it? He is in the White House now. He won.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Why say it? This is actually related to crowd size. That's why he cares about the attendance of the inauguration. It's about popularity. Donald Trump's brand for decades here in New York and around the world is about winning. It's about success. And he can't stand the fact that he lost the popular vote by more than two million votes. In fact, his aides believe the media repeats that fact partly to
delegitimize his presidency. And that's not true. We do not repeat that to delegitimize Trump or repeat it because it happens and because it create some tension in our politics.
But more importantly, this is part of a pattern. Whether it is insecurity or something else, Donald Trump having to come up with, in this case, a conspiracy theory, saying millions of illegal votes were cast. You just showed those pictures from Washington. Can you imagine what congressional leaders would be doing if they actually thought millions of illegal votes would be cast? There would be daily investigations. There would be criminal prosecutions.
Donald Trump is making this up. And on day four of his presidency, it's a shame that he is resorting to conspiracy theories.
LEMON: Anyone around him have a power of the will or the will to, Salena, to say - to tell him, stop it, or, you know, this is making you look smaller instead of the big world leader that you are?
ZITO: I suspect that there are. And I suspect that sometime, they are - they get through to him. I think most of today showed that -- today was strikingly different than yesterday. For the most part, today was a very successful day for Mr. Trump.
LEMON: Until the end.
STELTER: Well, it is interesting. This, really, the photo ops for magnificent.
ZITO: They were.
STELTER: Gives him opportunity for photo ops. And if we know one thing about Donald Trump is that he is great at those kind of images, whether it's ribbon cuttings for hotels or now --
LEMON: That he delivered on promises during the campaign very quickly. Right.
STELTER: That's right. However, it is anonymous sources on Capitol Hill who were described what happened, witnessed congressional meetings. That's how this information about illegal voting came out, this conspiracy theory. And by the way, tonight, "the New York Times" framing this as a lie in its headline. "Politico" using the word, debunk. I mean, Donald Trump in a wake up. He would be sleeping now. He is going to wake in the morning. He is going to see these headlines. And I wonder how he react.
ZITO: But --.
LEMON: Go ahead, Salena.
ZITO: Well, do we know -- was there someone that reporting this, do we know if he was using it as a throwaway line or is this something that he was stating as a fact that it happened.
STELTER: I think you are right. The context matters and we don't know since these are mostly anonymous sources describing this encounter between congressional leaders and Trump.
LEMON: Let's talk about Sean Spicer's press briefing today, Brian. After missed informed in a press over the weekend on the inauguration's crowd size or as Kellyanne Conway put it, offered alternative facts. He says the White House sees this as part of the larger narrative. Listen to this.
SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It's a little demoralizing to turn on the TV day after day and hear can't do this. This guy is not going to get confirmed. No way, they are going to go through.
[23:10:02] JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Isn't that just part of the conversation that happens in Washington?
SPICER: No, it's not.
ACOSTA: It comes with being president of the United States and --
SPICER: No. Look. I have been doing this a long time. You have been doing this too. I have never seen it like this. It's a little demoralizing. Because when you are sitting there and you are looking out and you are in awe of just how awesome that view is, and how many people are there and you go back and you turn on the television and you see shots of comparing this and that.
ACOSTA: Is it a fair criticism you have bigger fish to fry? Why worry about a couple tweets about crowd size --?
SPICER: Because it is not - because that's what I'm saying. You're minimizing the point here, Jim. It is not about one tweet. The narrative and the default narrative, it is always negative and it's demoralizing. And I think that when you sit here and you realize the sacrifice the guy made of leaving a very, very successful business, because he really cares about this country.
LEMON: Well, the thing is, is that the media didn't discuss crowd size until Donald Trump discussed crowd size. Nowhere in my coverage did I see it. And I didn't see it. I'm watching 24 hours a day.
STELTER: Yes. There was not a lot of attention on this.
LEMON: But when he says demoralizing, do you remember when in 2006, they said, this black man will never be president. No one knows him. He is not black enough. He doesn't have enough Washington experience. This woman is going to be president of the United States. She has been in the White House before. She is a senator for a long time. She has been the first lady. She is going to win. It sounds like the same thing, except the person then was Barack Obama
and now the person is Donald Trump. It's not as if the media is out to get him specifically. This is what happens in conversations leading up to an election.
STELTER: Even a local school board officials feel like the media is negative, Don. I mean, into some degree that is true. It is true, we don't cover the planes that land on time for the most part. I don't think our viewers want us too. This gets gain to this issue of success. Donald Trump is in many successful. He wants to feel --.
LEMON: But my bigger point is not about the media. My bigger point is, what I'm trying to say, most of those people just let it roll off their shoulders and realize this is what happens, and I am in a way, bigger than some of the reports that come out, bigger than that. Why is the leader of the free world so concerned about that, it is perplexing.
STELTER: It is.
ZITO: You know, Ronald Reagan said it and did it best. Just float above it. You can't read it every day. You can't pay attention to it every day. You can't let its own you. Can I make one point about that press conference?
LEMON: Of course, you can. Absolutely.
ZITO: There's something really -- two exciting things happened in that press conference today, for me as a reporter who is officially lives out in Pittsburgh. They --
LEMON: The Skype.
LEMON: Yes. That was great.
ZITO: I think that is so amazing. I mean, because there's so many sort of different voices in local news print reporting, that will --
LEMON: By the way, let's tell the viewers. They are setting up two Skype stations I believe for --
STELTER: Four, I believe.
SCIUTTO: Four Skype stations for reporters outside the beltway, so that they get a chance to weigh-in on the process that -- on the political process in this country. Go ahead, Salena.
ZITO: Yes. I thought that was really great. And I also noticed that his communications team was -- Trump's communications team was sitting off to the side of where Sean Spicer was, and they were all women. I also thought that was really great. I don't have a recent memory of that in the past few presidents. LEMON: I also thought it was great that they called on smaller news
organizations, very early on.
STELTER: And let's point out, "the New York Post" getting the first question. This person broadcasting network. There were some very pro Trump outlets as well. I think one America new network called on that wouldn't normally be called on. Some of this was to disrupt to the mainstream media. The CNN's of the world in the front row. I thought it was important, though. It was a wide variety of questions including from Jim Acosta. And that cost the exchange about this, this idea of demoralizing coverage. I thought it was very revealing about the president's mindset. I was (INAUDIBLE).
LEMON: For that, Salena I'm with you. I think it's great. I think it is OK to call on smaller news organizations first. We have a very big platform and very big voice, and we always will. But it's great to have as many people to the table as possible.
ZITO: I think it brings the chest level back with people and the news organization.
LEMON: I got to run. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
LEMON: A frightening moment caught on camera tonight. Minnesota governor Mark Dayton collapsed while delivering his state of the state address. His aides rushed in to catch him before he fell to the ground. You're watching it right now. The governor's chief of staff issuing a statement saying he quickly recovered, walked out of the capitol and went back home.
And of course, we are glad he is OK. And we wish him good health.
When we come right back, by any measure, President Trump has had a rocky start. But how do the early days of his administration compare to other presidents. Here is how he steps up on press briefings.
[23:18:46] LEMON: It's the end of day four for the Trump administration. So how is the new president doing compared to his predecessors?
Here to discuss, F. Michael Higginbotham, a professor of constitutional law at the University of Baltimore and the author of "the Ghosts of Jim Crow." Also, Douglas Brinkley, author of "Rightful Heritage, Franklin Roosevelt and the land of America."
Good evening to both of you.
Mr. Higginbotham, you first.
F. MICHAEL HIGGINBOTHAM, PROFESSOR AT CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, UNIVERSITY OFBALTIMORE: Hey, Don.
LEMON: We have a new president. He came into office exactly the way he campaigned. From his inaugural speech to his first weekend and first real day in office and he welcomed to the White House by enormous crowds of people protesting him worldwide the next day. What are your thoughts at the beginning of this Trump presidency?
HIGGINBOTHAM: Well, like many Americans I watched on TV, the inauguration events, and I saw the parties that were going on, and clearly it was impressive. I think that President Trump an international celebrity, a corporate leader. Like President Reagan and President Kennedy, he knows how to give a good party. So I'm sure that the people that were attending enjoyed themselves.
I even liked the first dance he did, Frank Sinatra "My Way." That said, there were some things that went on over the weekend that were problematic. The focus on the numbers, President Obama clearly had higher numbers in attendance for his inauguration. It's not a big deal. But the problem is, when you have a press secretary that has inaccurate numbers or that exaggerates the numbers, it becomes problematic. You have a spokesperson that says alternative facts, then it becomes problematic.
In addition, the inaugural speech, five days before he gives his inaugural speech, he talks to Martin Luther King III. He says he wants to bring people together. But if you look at the inaugural address, it was directed at his supporters. He didn't the acknowledge Secretary Clinton. He did not acknowledge the many individuals who had valid disagreements with him. Who didn't vote for him. So I think that was very problematic.
Now, if you ask me what he should do, I think he needs to take a page from the civil rights movement. Keep your eyes on the prize. Focus on how to make things better.
[23:21:06] LEMON: Listen. Your opinion, your point of view is clearly yours. If I, you know, were Hillary Clinton I don't know if I would want to be acknowledged. I think I would just want to get in and probably get out at the inaugural address. It was such a hard fought campaign. I didn't see anything wrong with him not mentioning her, but you know, I take your point.
Douglas, it's clearly been a rocky start for Trump. But he certainly seemed to get back on track, and meet with U.S. business leaders today. Are you reassured at all of the past 24 hours?
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, I think Sean Spicer started finding his footing. But it's going to take a lot of good press conferences for him to make up do the giant lie of the photograph about the Obama's inauguration having less people than Donald Trump's, you know.
But it's hard, Don, for presidents sometimes to get going out of the gate. I mean, when Gerald Ford came in, for example, people thought, thank God, Nixon is gone. Gerald Ford said, but then he had to do a policy thing, pardoning of Nixon. And people thought, God, there goes the Ford presidency.
And Bill Clinton had a very rocky start. Out of nowhere he started doing don't ask don't tell, meaning the whole gays in the military event. And he got off to a kind of rocky start. But I have never seen bad visuals like Donald Trump at the CIA. And then that first Spicer, you know, conversation to the press, it was loopy.
Today got a little better. But then late this evening, we heard the, you know, report about Donald Trump insisting there were three or four million fraudulent voters in the United States. And the sign of insanity is when you start believing your own BS. And that's not true, about three or four million illegal people voting. And so, it's going to be, I'm afraid, that another rough media day for Donald Trump tomorrow.
Michael, CNN is reporting that during his first meeting, as Douglas just said, with the leaders, he again reiterated those claims about the popular vote because of widespread voter fraud, he said. Why - it is false. That's what we said. It is not what it said. So, why even say it?
HIGGINBOTHAM: I don't understand the focus. It seems that President Trump is still in campaign mode. And he needs to be in governing mode now. He needs to stop really, you know, worrying about adversaries. He is the president now. And so, he can govern. He needs to focus on making things better. He needs to focus on improving education, job creation in urban areas. He needs to focus on rebuilding the infrastructure of the country. He needs to focus on making the affordable care act better.
These are things that, you know, people need assistance now. And these are things that he can focus in on. So I think he needs to stop worrying about the poll numbers, stop tweeting at 3:00 a.m. in the morning about personal petty things and keep his eyes on the prize.
LEMON: OK. Listen. I want to play this. This is Sean Spicer and Kellyanne Conway, pushing back on the facts the administration disagrees with. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLYANNE CONWAY, WHITE HOUSE COUNSELOR: You're saying it's a falsehood and they're giving Sean Spicer our press secretary gave alternative facts to that.
SPICER: I believe that we have to be honest with the American people. I think sometimes we can disagree with the facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I'm going to ask you, Michael. Is that what you should do, only present the facts that go along with your narrative?
HIGGINBOTHAM: Absolutely not. President John Adams said facts are very stubborn things. They don't change. You don't have a right to your own facts. You have a right to your own opinion but not to your own facts. Alternative facts are lies.
BRINKLEY: Yes, I agree. And I'm hoping that that can get cured. But I'm starting to get doubtful. I also think President Trump needs to stop watching so much TV and dealing with social media. I think he's getting distracted. He could have had a very strong day today, and in many ways did, when he was surrounded by the labor leaders in the oval office, you know, doing away with the Trans Pacific Pact. But it's all kind of getting mixed up again this evening because the reports from Democrats that he is retrying to shop that stale and false tale about all these millions of voters that are illegally voting in America. That's conspiracy theories.
We expect presidents to be not shopping. And you know, Neil Armstrong didn't go to the moon, and somebody else bombed, you know, 9/11, during 9/11, the trade towers.
[23:25:44] LEMON: Yes. Thank you, Douglas. Thank you, Michael. I appreciate it.
When we come right back, millions of people around the world marched against President Trump this weekend. Will they keep the movement going?
But first, here is another look at how President Trump steps up against his predecessors.
[23:30:00] LEMON: Millions of women along with men and children marched in cities across the country and around the world the day after Donald Trump's inauguration as president. Here to discuss, CNN political commentator Kayleigh McEnany, Lauren Duca, award-winning journalist and weekend editor for "Teen Vogue" Rachel Sklar, founder of theList, a platform for professional women from all industries and CNN political commentator Symone Sanders and Ana Navarro and also Alice Stewart.
Look at this. I'm giving the view a run for its money. Top that Whoopee and Joy.
All right. So, let's go. Let's talk about this. I have been wanting to have you guys on to discuss this. So thank you for coming on.
Kayleigh, I'm going to start with you. What you saw this weekend, was it a movement or you think it was a moment?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it was a moment, particularly because it was not a women's march. It was a liberal march. There are 42 percent of women who voted for Donald Trump. I'm one of them. The fact that this women's march excluded prolife groups who specifically us to be included meant that this was just a march on behalf of the liberal cause in the Democratic Party. So, while I support your right to free exercise your opinion, I don't see this being a cohesive movement, because they espoused the same values that got rejected in the election.
LEMON: OK. Vanessa, as I understand, the women who were able to march, they just like the signs of that maybe there was concern about the (INAUDIBLE).
MCENANY: I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the march actually put out a statement that they were not prolife and that's not what they were marching on behalf of. So whether they were eventually allowed to march, I'm not --.
RACHEL SKLAR, FOUNDER, THELIST: They were not partners but of course the march was open to all.
LEMON: I'm sorry, say again, Rachel?
SKLAR: I mean, the core principles of the march, the core mission was prochoice. So anybody who had an anti-choice mission, that wouldn't make any sense to partner. But it was open to anyone to march. I mean, it wasn't - they doesn't like they were bouncers.
LAUREN DUCA, FREELANCE WRITER/REPORTER: And I would love to make a point about -- I actually think that the fact that this wasn't just a march about women, the fact that this was a march about equality across the board, and I think that a clear reason why that comes down to a question of ideology makes sense on that issue, and there's a partisanship there. But I was marching in New York. And I saw signs for LGBTQ rights. I heard chants for black lives matter. And I heard so many supportive voices. And that to me means this is a movement. This is vocal outcry that is insisting upon a certain level of equality that many feel is being challenged.
LEMON: Yes. And I spoke with a Trump supporter who is prolife, and she said she marched as well. What stuck out to you most about this march, Ana?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The size of it. The timing of it. That it happened the day after the inaugural. You know, it was a remarkable sight to see all of these red hat wearing Trump supporters on the streets of Washington and all of this pink pussy hat wearing march goers in the streets of Washington and there were no clashes.
Half a million people marched in Washington. Over three million marched around the United States. There was not one arrest. I think they did it the right way. They did it peacefully. On one day we saw the celebration of Democratic succession, the 45th president gets sworn in. The next day there were people protesting at a president.
And I think that's an awesome sight. It's an awesome message of democracy in action, whether it's going to be a moment or a movement, none of us know. But we do know that they made history. And you know, I think people there were marching for all sorts of reasons. I think some -- I saw signs that were prolife. I saw signs that were prochoice. I saw signs that were pro-undocumented. I saw signs that were funny. That were absolutely hilarious. I saw men marching, children marching, I saw women of all ages. They
had a good positive feeling toward it. And again, I think it's remarkable that these two things happened within hours of each other in the same city and World War III didn't erupt.
LEMON: Yes. There were no arrest or anything and, you know, related to the march.
I want you guys to listen to -- I should say women. Guys, you know what I mean, just using the blank here. Here's White House press secretary Sean Spicer, what he said today about Saturday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPICER: I think he has a healthy respect for the first amendment. And he -- this is what makes our country so beautiful. Is that on one day you can inaugurate a president, on the next day, people can occupy the same space to protest something. But he is also cognizant to the fact that a lot of these people were there to protest an issue of concern to them and not against anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So Alice, to you. As a conservative woman, do you agree with Sean Spicer?
ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think one of the -- I agree with everyone here, that it was remarkable to see such a huge turnout. And it was peaceful. And it was a good day. It was a good two days of people coming out here on the streets of Washington. But like Kayleigh said, this was not a woman's march. This was a liberal women's march. So I will leave it liberal women's march.
And one of the problems moving forward is that they were defined by gender and not by purpose. And I think that's going to be a problem moving forward. Much like Hillary Clinton, without a common purpose, it will be difficult to move forward. And I think what we are seeing with Donald Trump here, he was able to galvanize millions of women, unlike Hillary Clinton was able to.
But if they could capitalize on their ability to organize like they have, and really get people together for a common purpose, I think they do have a movement and not just a moment.
[23:35:46] LEMON: OK. Rachel, before -- Symone, you have been sitting by patiently. But Rachel is on Skype. What were you saying when Alice is talking?
SKLAR: I just want to push back here on what Kayleigh said, and you know, the notion that women came out so strongly for Donald Trump. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by a stunning 2.9 million votes, you know. Donald Trump didn't win women. He won white women. And I think it's really important to note that this was a huge protest. It was possibly the largest protest in United States history.
STEWART: We're not denying that, but to your point -- Donald Trump won 53 percent of the white women vote. That's more than Hillary Clinton, to say he can't --
LEMON: You guys are both talking at the same time.
SKLAR: I strongly disagree with the delusion of what happened on Saturday, because it was remarkable. And it was a remarkable repudiation of the threat of rights being rolled back under this president.
LEMON: And Symone, to that point. Do you think the White House is kidding itself when it says that these women weren't protesting against Donald Trump?
SYMONE SANDERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I also think the White House is kidding itself, and they are again trying to give us the quote-unquote "alternative facts," these lies and saying that the president-elect -- pardon me, the president respects the first amendment, because we all know that he has bullied and belittled folks that have spoken out against him.
Look. I think this protest, this march was a lot. It was a protest. It was a coming out for women's rights. And I want to push back on the notion that because prolife organization wasn't included in the partnership, it wasn't a march for all women. I think the foundation of the women's rights movement is the expansion of women's rights and not the limitation. And to include a group that is about the limitation of the rights of women, it's kind of anti-foundation of the women's rights movements.
You know, I can advocate for voting rights, you don't have to vote. You know what I mean? But you should not be kept from voting. So you don't have to believe in abortion, or even want abortions to happen. But one should not be kept from having an abortion.
And the last point I want to make, the point on innersextionality (ph). I think this march encamps women of color, women of color, and that was really important. Women of color often times have not come out for the women's movement, because of the history of the women's rights movement. And this point about that there has no violence, I think we have to be careful with that because a lot of times, especially in marches around police brutality. I think that that major, you know, officers are much more willing to jump in in the protester crowd, than they are when a group of women, predominantly white women actually in some areas at the march are protesting. So we have to be careful with that.
LEMON: OK. All right. Kayleigh, I promise, first word on the other side of the break. I got to get to the break. We will be right back.
[23:42:23] LEMON: Back now, Kayleigh McEnany is here. Lauren Duca, Rachel Sklar, Symone Sanders, Ana Navarro and Alice Stewart.
And so, I'm just going to step back and let everybody talk. So Kayleigh you sort of took umbrage to something that Symone was
MCENANY: Yes. She referred to this prolife group wanting to be part of this movement as wanting to roll back the rights of women or limiting the rights of women when in fact -- I disagree with that characterization entirely. In fact, it is prochoice groups who limit the rights of women. And that the right's right.
SANDERS: How so, Kayleigh?
MCENANY: No, I listened to you the whole time. Let me finish, Symone. The prochoice are the ones limiting the right to life for millions of unborn women and babies who are slaughtered to the tune of half a million each year. Those are the groups who are rolling back the rights of women.
And you want to talk about this administration rolling back the rights of women, Rachel, no. Not so. This administration wants to put in place paid maternity leave. It's easy to go out there and scream about Trump, the anti-women or wanting to take away your right. But name for the right that Trump wants to take away from you.
SKLAR: Well, I mean, to your point. That is the very fundamental and constitutional enshrined and protected right to choice. The single most critical thing that a woman can do for her own economic autonomy is to have a child. And that should be the choice of a woman for a whole host of reasons. But to say that the prochoice is movement is limiting the rights of women is a like complete alternative fact.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An unborn baby has no rights.
SANDERS: I would also like to note that Donald Trump on the campaign trail definitely said that women should be punished for having an abortion. And then today, he signed legislation that totally codified the things that he said on the campaign trail, that demonstrated that he is not here quote-unquote "for the rights of women."
But just to expand on this conversation, I think when we talk about women's rights and the movements for women, it's diverse. You know, it is diverse in the way it looks. It diverse in perspectives and we can no --
LEMON: It's surprising to me as a man, that the conversation often revolves around reproductive rights when -- I mean, women are concerned about the economy, women are concerned about, you know, jobs, about healthcare.
DUCA: I think the reason that fundamental equality. That equality requires reproductive rights. There is something Symone touched on, which is we often forget, is that you can be prolife and prochoice, but the movement, the feminist movement, the march for equality requires reproductive rights in order to achieve social, economic equality.
[23:45:02] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It also includes the rights of LGBTQ people.
LEMON: OK. That is -
NAVARRO: Ladies, I think we are getting way too narrow with this discussion. This discussion has now become a debate about abortion or not abortion.
LEMON: Exactly. Thank you.
NAVARRO: This march was much about more than that. Let's remember how this march started. This march started by one citizen, one mom, one woman in Hawaii who posted she was upset about Donald Trump getting elected that she was going to go march. The next thing she knew, she woke up the next day and thousands of women have said - were saying, I'm going with you.
This then got co-opted by organizations. But this was at its root a citizen led, citizen activated, citizen started and initiated effort. And I think women were there were marching for a whole host of reasons. I think that a lot of women and men and their allies were there because they were very concerned at the tone during the campaign. They are concerned that their voices may not be heard, in this administration.
Frankly, the man's been president for 90 hours. We don't know what he is going to do or not going to do. I think people were there to send a message. The pussycats wanted to be heard roaring. And that's exactly what they did. So let's not get into this narrow silo about abortion. You guys are falling straight for that trap.
LEMON: Go ahead, Rachel.
SKLAR: The point that when you -- note the pussy hats, I mean the whole point, it was an unbelievably organic movement. There was a pattern posted in the Internet and women knit their own hats and it exploded in an organic way, atop the heads of all the marchers, in if an unmissable way. But the whole point of these adorable little pointy eared pink caps as you saw everyone wearing is because the president of the United States was caught on tape talking about how he felt entitled to grab women by the -- and it's all yours.
MCENANY: That's not what it was. Forty-two percent of women turned out and voted for Trump. So don't purport to support all women.
SANDERS: Black and Latino women were not voting for Donald Trump. Let's be very clear here. The march -- let's be clear here on that point. It was white women that elected Donald Trump. Black women and Latino women did not do this. The second thing is, this march sent a message not just to Donald Trump, I don't think. It was also a message to Democrats. It was letting them know, that look, all of those people out there in the streets, they are ready for change. So this should empower and embolden Democrats to go out there and speak truth to power on women's issues.
LEMON: All right. Alice in long on the other side. I got to take a break. I got to take a break.
We will be right back.
[23:51:34] LEMON: Back now with my panel. And you know it's a good one when Alice Stewart and Ana Navarro has a tough time getting in. So Alice, you get the first word. Go ahead.
STEWART: I agree. I think to Ana's point, this has become so focused on birth control and reproductive rights, where I think, as a woman, and many women that I know and speak with, all issues are women's issues, not just reproductive rights. And I think it's important to keep in mind, this issue in this march started with frustration and disappointment at Hillary Clinton's loss, and now it's morphed into questioning what Donald Trump will do for women. And I think already he has shown he is going to stand up for women when it comes to what he has put in place for childcare and what he is doing for putting women in office and equal pay for women. And I think as Sean Spicer said today, watch his actions and his deeds, and we'll see soon enough that he is out there to promote women, and to make women's lives better in all areas when it comes to --
But I think one thing that's important moving forward with this movement. A shared sentence of victimhood is not a way to bring about change. And I think if they take this one step further and find that one mission, one cause and continue and stay engaged, I think there's a great movement ahead.
LEMON: Ok. Let Lauren in here.
NAVARRO: Alice, honestly, I was in the march and I didn't feel a sense of victimhood. I will tell you, I felt a sense of girl power, empowerment. Look, let me tell you something. Any man who is watching this right now, any man who has got a daughter, a wife, a girlfriend, a mother, knows that one pissed off woman is a lot on your hands. Three million pissed off women marching in the streets of the United States should make everybody's middle ears perk up.
LEMON: And six of them, I just let them say what they want because I don't want the wrath of any of you.
But Lauren, go ahead to that point. Because -- you can put up the tweet, Donald Trump tweeted about it. The president tweeted about it. He said, watched protest yesterday. It was under the impression that we just had an election. Why didn't these people vote? (INAUDIBLE).
I don't know if they voted or not. Then he said peaceful protest is a hallmark of our democracy, even if I don't always agree. I recognize the right to people to express their views. That was the next after, you know. So, I guess sort of correcting himself. Do you that think this got under his skin?
DUCA: I do. I do think this got under his skin, but I would encourage him to stop thinking in terms of winning and losing. I feel like he often thinks in terms of who is against him and who are the losers comes up a lot in the rhetoric of the tweets.
This is a huge bloc of people that turned up in hundreds of cities, over three million people, and we don't have a full count. This is a representative portion of the American public to show up and actually get outside and be marching. And you know, it's not about victimhood. I think the points we were making earlier about, you know, getting caught up in individual issues, this was about sending a message about fighting for equality and doing so with unity and solidarity and positivity. I mean, it was exuberant when I was there.
LEMON: OK. If I can do a lightning round with all of you, because we have a little bit of time here on the air here. So lightning round about what you each think about the people who marched on Saturday. What should they do next? What should they do next, Kayleigh?
MCENANY: Give Donald Trump a chance because he is actually proposing to increase women's rights not retract them.
DUCA: Something. Call your Congress people. Call your representatives. Donate if you can. Commit to doing something every single day in some small way. Don't chill out at all.
[23:55:00] LEMON: Symone?
SANDERS: Take the fight locally. Look, we need women's rights and this fight for equality, equity across the board locally. So we need women of color engaged and involved at every level. So, look, if you don't have a women of color on your board, put her on your board. If you're doing planning, involve women of color, we need to get engaged.
STEWART: Run for office. These people would be tremendous public servants, or get involved in voter registration or get out to vote. Definitely get involved.
LEMON: Ms. Sklar?
SKLAR: Hang on to those pussy hats, because from all indications, from Donald Trump's cabinet picks and his behavior over the campaign and as president-elect and as president, it seems pretty clear that we are all going to need them.
LEMON: Miss Navarro?
NAVARRO: Look, I think we all need to stay engaged. We need to stay informed. We need to stay active. We need to register to vote. We need to register our friends and our family to vote. If all that fails, drink, eat Hagen Dazs and open up a knit shop.
LEMON: Ana, thank you for the levity.
Thank you so much. I appreciate all of you joining us Symone Sanders, Kayleigh McEnany, Alice Stewart, Rachel Sklar, Lauren Duca and Ana Navarro. Hope that we can continue this conversation. I appreciate your candor.
Thanks so much for joining us. That's it for us tonight.
That's it for us tonight. Thanks for watching. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.