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Trump's Budget Pick Questioned; Sessions' Nomination Delayed; HHS Pick Faces More Questions; Pompeo Sworn in as CIA Director; Nikki Haley Confirmation Vote. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 24, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: -- that President Trump's top adviser, one of them, has said is going to happen. And given that this is something that will affect millions of Americans, I certainly think it's relevant.

But the goal for a lot of these hearings is to avoid delving into any sort of specific, even one as cogent as this.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And the other argument that a lot of Democrats, especially Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, the ranking Democrat on this committee, were making that there are ethical issues that he has not adequately addressed.

TAPPER: Yes, and that's true. And having to do with whether or not he's take -- bought stock through a broker in companies that he regulates in one way or another or performs any sort of oversight over.

And, at one point, one of the senators, I believe it was Senator Heller from Nevada, said, you know, do you abide by the Stock Act? The Stock Act is -- was passed in the wake of that book by the author, Schweizer, who also went on to write "The Clinton Cash Book."

But this one was called "Extortion." It was about how members of Congress potentially abuse their position to find out what's going on and then invest in those companies, knowing what's coming down the pike that will affect those companies, in terms of regulations or tax credits or whatever.

And then, Congress passed a bill that was fairly toothless, in terms what it did. It was sold as a remedy. But members of Congress are -- the burden to prove, to violate the Stock Act, is so high. Members of Congress really still are able to get away with something that I think a lot of Americans would find unethical. I'm talking about Democrats, Republicans, anybody in Congress has the right to do this as of now. And the burden for proving it is very difficult.

So, Congressman Price said, yes, he abided by the Stock Act and that was end of that.

BLITZER: I want to bring in our panel to talk a little more about today's hearing. Our National Political Reporter Nia-Malika Henderson is with us. Our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger, our Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash and our Senior Political Analyst Mark Preston. Also joining us, our Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

And Dr. Gupta, so many people are watching this hearing right now. They want to know, will their health insurance, will Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act, will it still be in place? And if it isn't in place, it's replaced, if you will, what's going to happen?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting. I think that you can probably safely say that this is a -- there's going to be a significant change to the Affordable Care Act. Maybe it is completely repealed and ultimately replaced with something. It certainly sounds like that's what's likely to happen, as Jake was just pointing out.

There was kind of a little bit of a startling lack of specifics, even after three hours or so of these hearings. I mean, it's -- I was just -- I was listening to the whole thing. It's remarkable how little we still fully understand.

But I think we can -- we can probably safely say it's going to change dramatically.

I think the majority of the questions, interestingly enough, really focused on federal entitlements like Medicare and Medicaid.

There were fewer questions about the exchanges of the Affordable Care Act specifically, and even fewer questions about the stock concerns of Congressman Price.

But with regard to Medicare and Medicaid, you know, the idea that he's brought forth and he's been releasing his own plans over the last seven years now, Congressman Price has, basically saying that he wants to create a premium support sort of program. Meaning that, yes, you can still buy Medicare. We'll give you the amount of money that Medicare costs now to buy Medicare if you want it or you can use that money to buy private insurance.

The big concern, though, that was brought up by a few of the senators. That money won't -- may be enough now, but it won't be enough next year or the year after that. So, ultimately, that's what the privatizing of Medicare, that's the vehicle to privatization. And that was one of the big concerns that kept coming up over and over again.

BLITZER: Gloria, how do you think Dr. Price did?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think he did a very good job in not saying much of anything. And, therefore, sort of kept the place kind of calm. I mean, he -- it was as if -- Senator Ron Wyden, for example, was very aggressive. Claire McCaskill, very aggressive. And they kind of talked past each other.

At one point Ron Wyden asked for a guarantee that no one will be worse off. And Price would say, people who lost coverage under the Affordable Care Act won't lose their coverage under whatever comes next.

But it's very clear to me that Republicans, and Price in particular, are aware that, in repealing Obamacare, they may have created another third rail of American politics.

And they don't want to touch it right now. They just don't want to touch it, because they don't have a plan in place to ensure people that they're not going to lose the things that they like.

And so, Price was smart. He couldn't do anything else. There is no plan right now and he can't talk about something that doesn't exist. And he knows he's not going to write it on his own. (INAUDIBLE.)

[13:05:00] TAPPER: Let's -- in fact, let's play that sound. It's slot (ph) two to the people in the control room. It's when the ranking Democrat on the committee, Ron Wyden of Oregon, asked Tom Price, can you guarantee what you're about to do nobody will be hurt? Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: Under the executive order, will you commit that no one will be worse off?

REP. TOM PRICE, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICE SECRETARY NOMINEE: What I commit to, Senator, is working with you and every single member of Congress to make certain we have the highest quality health care and that every single American has access to affordable coverage.

WYDEN: That is not what I asked. I asked, will you commit that no one will be worse off under the executive order? You ducked the question. Will you guarantee that no one will lose coverage under the executive order?

PRICE: I guarantee you that the individuals that lost coverage under the Affordable Care Act, we will commit to making certain that they don't lose coverage under whatever replacement plan comes forward. That's the commitment that I provide to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That's kind of double-speak, Dana Bash. I guarantee you, the individual --

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: In Washington?

TAPPER: -- that lost coverage --

BASH: Yes.

TAPPER: -- will not lose coverage under the replacement. OK, that's great. And there's a point made that people lost coverage because of premium spikes and the rest.

BASH: Right.

TAPPER: And that's a perfectly legitimate --

BASH: Right.

TAPPER: -- point to make. But that's not what the question was.

BASH: No, it wasn't.

TAPPER: And that's a confusing answer for the American people.

BASH: Absolutely, and that was not an accident. That was prepared and that was very carefully delivered to answer without answering and give double-speak.

And the reason is what Gloria said. They don't know how they're going to change this.

And the argument that Tom Price made is one, I think, at a certain point in these hearings, these three or four hours, is what we're going to hear from Republicans, as they try to fashion this. That people have insurance more than they did before, 20 million people. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they have access to coverage.

So, you could have health insurance, but then when you get sick or when you want to go to the doctor, you can't -- you can't make that happen. And so, that's the argument that they're going to make to people with the insurance that, you know, it's not as great as you think it is, but it's easier said than done.

But the one thing that I do want to say, and I think one of the reasons why this hearing is so important is you kind of take a step back.

Tom Price, assuming he will be confirmed, and as you said earlier, there's no reason to think, at this point, he won't be since Republicans have the majority, is going to be in charge of so much of the domestic agenda that President Trump, and the Republicans in the Congress behind us, are going to be focusing on.

Obamacare, number one. Entitlements, number two, Medicare and Social -- not Social Security but certainly Medicare. And those are going to be the big fights.

And, as HHS secretary, that role has a lot of discretion over how any and all of this is implemented once that fight is over which is why this role is so important for any administration.

TAPPER: Sanjay, obviously, there are individuals who, because of premium hikes, they've lost their coverage under Obamacare. But the question that Senator Wyden was asking was about the people who now have health insurance because of Obamacare. Whether it's because of they got free insurance, basically, free for them at least, because of the Medicaid expansion in several states or those individuals who got stipends and tax credits to help them afford it.

That was the question. There are millions of Americans who now have insurance because of Obamacare. Whatever the problems with Obamacare, let's set them aside for a second. He did not answer the question.

GUPTA: He did not answer the question. Clearly, did not answer the question. And, sort of, anticipated the question and knew he wasn't going to answer it, specifically.

The question being, can you guarantee that people won't lose their health care under whatever plan, the replacement plan, is that I don't think he can answer the question. I don't think he could probably answer that question in the affirmative, at least not on what we've seen so far.

But, again, there's sort of a -- you know, again, sitting here listening this for three hours, making really diligent notes about all this. There's still a really startling lack of specifics here. I don't think you could explain what the plan -- what the plan is, if there is a plan or even what some of these changes, that Dana was just talking about, to federal entitlements.

We know that they're -- they've come up in all these various cursory ways, but it's hard to describe to people.

BLITZER: And I was going to say, it's going to take a while, Mark Preston, for, I guess, the whole process to sort out, even though, as Dana points out, the Republicans have the votes, he'll almost certainly be confirmed.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No doubt about that. And, you know, we saw just a couple weeks ago, where Paul Ryan told Jake they had hoped to get this done or actually put down the marker and said they would get this done in the first 100 days.

The problem is that there's no agreement between Republicans, right now, on Capitol Hill about how to get it done. And they haven't been able to reach an agreement since this was put into place, Obamacare.

What we're seeing now, today, from these Democrats is that they're trying to lay down markers, right? They only -- there's a very short window for them to actually put Donald Trump's nominee, you know, on the hot seat and try to extract some kind of markers from Tom Price about what he is going to do.

[13:10:11] Now, Tom Price is, as everyone has said, has astutely sidestepped all of that because he knows he has no answers, at this point.

But while this was such a good issue for Donald Trump to run on with his base in the election, this could become very difficult for Republicans, heading into the midterm election.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. And you could see Claire McCaskill essentially saying, listen, it's Obamacare now. And once you appeal it, it's going to be Trumpcare. You saw -- also saw Sherrod Brown essentially maybe even call President Trump not such a truthful person, when President Trump said that there was a plan. And Sherrod Brown was questioning Tom Price and asking about that. That whether or not there was an ACA which was nearly finished and will be revealed after Price's confirmation. And Price said, it's true that Donald Trump said that. Not true, obviously, that there's an actual plan.

So, yes, I mean, this is a very complicated issue for Republicans. And, remember, in some of these Republican states, there is a Medicaid expansion. You think about Ohio. You even think about Indiana. Pence, they expanded Medicaid in that state.

So, this is something that was easy, in terms of a bumper sticker and easy for Republicans to have that repeal and to send it up to a Democratic president and get it vetoed. But when it comes to actually putting the meat on this, it's going to be very tough for them to do.

TAPPER: There was a -- there was a different congressman, Republican congressman, who was on the hot seat today, Congressman Mick Mulvaney who was nominated to be director of the office of management and budget. As opposed to in previous years, when people have had to withdrawal their nominations because it turns out they didn't pay taxes on a nanny or a chauffeur or something or other, Mick Mulvaney is facing the music. Let's play a little bit slot (ph) 20, Congressman Mulvaney explaining his tax issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICK MULVANEY, DIRECTOR NOMINEE, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: She helps my wife with the kids. I did not consider her a household employee for purposes of withholding and did not withhold. And didn't think about it again until two days after the president had nominated me for this position.

And during the transition, I got a checklist. Have you ever had a babysitter, a nanny, an au pair, a governess, whatever? And I said, yes. And then, they sent me an IRS circular. The first time I had seen it. I read it.

And it was made immediately clear to me that I had made a mistake and that the IRS viewed our babysitter as a household employee for whom we should have withheld taxes. I will pay any penalties, any interest, any late fees and abide by the law to the best of my ability.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Why would you not consider a housekeeper somebody that you would have to pay taxes on?

BLITZER: Especially given all the history of other nominees, during the Clinton administration, later during the Obama administration, where people have had to have their names withdrawn because they failed to pay those kinds of taxes.

TAPPER: I mean, this guy is whip smart and everybody on Capitol Hill loves him. And he -- you know, I'm sure he's going to be confirmed and people think that he's a budget expert. But --

BORGER: How do you not consider him an employee?

BASH: Yes.

TAPPER: -- one other moment I want to play, Congressman Jeff Merkley, a Senator from Oregon, trying to ascertain just how much of a truth- teller Congressman Mulvaney will be. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D), OREGON: I have behind me two pictures that were taken at about the same time of day in 2009 and 2017. Which crowd is larger, the 2009 crowd or the 2017 crowd?

MULVANEY: Senator, if you allow me to give the disclaimer that I'm not really sure how this ties to OMB. I'll be happy to answer your question. Which is, from that picture, it does appear that the crowd on the left-hand side is bigger than the crowd on the right-hand side.

MERKLEY: Thank you. The president disagreed about this in his news report. He said, it's a lie. We caught them. We caught them in a beauty, referring to the press reporting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Interesting that, all of a sudden, in a hearing for the confirmation process for the director of the Office of Management and Budget, this comes up.

TAPPER: Well, what Congressman Mulvaney said, ultimately, was he is going to provide the facts, both how they're interpreted from one side and how they're interpreted from the other side, to the president. And he will be -- he said he will be deadly serious about providing facts.

BASH: Three, two, one, waiting for the e-mail that Donald Trump just withdrew his nomination. Just kidding, just kidding. But it was a stunt. It was a stunt.

HENDERSON: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Absolutely, it was a total stunt. You know, he's not the first person to do that kind of thing. Not the last person to do that kind of thing on both sides of the aisle. And he's trying to make the larger point that, you know, are you going to be the person who's going to tell -- speak truth to power to Donald Trump when he says things that are, clearly, just not factual?

[13:15:00] TAPPER: Was it effective, do you think?

PRESTON: No. I mean, was it effective, in the sense that we're sitting here talking about it, and Jeff Merkley feels that he got one up on Mulvaney? Sure. But my question is, are we going to see this at every hearing now? Are we going to see every time that Democrats and Republicans are at issue over something, are we going to see these pictures go up and say, do you agree or, you know, what's the larger (INAUDIBLE)?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, but that -- that doesn't help.

PRESTON: Well, but I don't -- I don't think that helped either, quite frankly.

BORGER: I don't think it helps. And I think it was a stunt. And, honestly, if you want to question Mulvaney, do it about his job --

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.

PRESTON: Sure.

BORGER: And -- and -- and do it -- you know, do it about what he intends to do in a sea of red ink and do -- you know, ask him -- ask him other questions about entitlements and all the rest.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE). But it is -- yes.

BORGER: But I think it's -- I think it's -- I think it's kind of just showmanship --

PRESTON: Sophomoric (ph).

BORGER: That we don't need.

HENDERSON: (INAUDIBLE).

BORGER: And it doesn't help the Democrats at all.

HENDERSON: But it is. I think the Democrats are trying to figure out where the daylight is between some of these nominees and Donald Trump.

BORGER: (INAUDIBLE).

HENDERSON: He did it in a very visual way. You've seen some of that with the Tillerson hearings, for instance. And, you know, let's face it, a lot of these folks aren't really known to the average American and they're looking for breakout moments that go viral and this might work for the senator there.

TAPPER: It is interesting, though, because Mulvaney is going to have a big job. They want to reduce the deficit. They want to eliminate the $20 trillion national debt. A tall order for anybody, but Mick Mulvaney very respected on Capitol Hill and he's going to be leading the charge for that.

BASH: Right.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And he apologized for what he said was an honest mistake, not paying the taxes for the nanny.

TAPPER: Still to come, Senator Jeff Sessions, Trump's pick for attorney general, will have to wait until next week for his confirmation vote. Senator Richard Blumenthal sits on the committee that will approve or deny his nomination. He will explain the delay.

Plus --

BLITZER: The White House expected to weigh in momentarily over at the daily briefing. There you see live pictures from the Briefing Room. Sean Spicer, his second Q&A with reporters, that's coming up as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:16] BLITZER: Welcome back to Washington. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting. We also want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world.

More of President Trump's cabinet picks are getting approved, while others face more scrutiny from lawmakers. Today, Democrats delayed a vote on the attorney general nominee, Senator Jeff Sessions, until next week. And Representative Tom Price, the nominee to become the next Health and Human Services secretary, is undergoing another round of hearings today.

Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut is joining us now live from Capitol Hill.

Senator, thanks very much for joining us.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, MEMBER, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Thank you, Wolf. Great to be with you.

BLITZER: You're a member of the Judiciary Committee. Why the delay in voting on Senator Sessions' nomination?

BLUMENTHAL: The delay is due very simply to the very serious questions that remain to be answered by our colleague, Senator Sessions. They relate to his antipathy to the civil rights and civil liberty that he is supposed to champion, his equivocation when asked about standing up and speaking truth to power, to his boss, Donald Trump, and his ability to speak for the nation as a legal conscience. And I'm asking 20 more questions. I asked a great many questions during our hearing, but I'm unsatisfied with the responses I've received. And it's in the tradition of our committee, the Judiciary Committee, that there be a full round of questions in the week that remains before he will be considered.

But remember, we refuse to be a rubber stamp. That's the reason why we are asking these questions of the nation's top law enforcement officer. And three of the president's cabinet have already been confirmed, five more have been approved by committee. There's no effort, simply, to delay.

BLITZER: So I take it, senator, you're leaning against his confirmation? BLUMENTHAL: I will oppose Senator Sessions' confirmation as attorney

general. And the reason is that his record and the testimony at the hearing demonstrate to me that he will not be a champion for civil rights and civil liberties, religious freedoms, the right to privacy, women's health care. And those rights and liberties are under challenge as never before. He has to be a champion. That's the role of the attorney general, as well as enforcing vigorously and zealously the criminal laws against any threats to public safety. The champion of civil rights and civil liberties has to be (INAUDIBLE), and he has to be someone who will enforce those conflicts of interest laws against Donald Trump and his organization, which are unprecedented at this time. He has to be the one who says, I will find an independent counsel. And so far he's refused to make that commitment.

BLITZER: All right, let's talk about another nominee, Congressman Tom Price, facing more serious questions today in the second round of his confirmation hearings. He's been nominated to become the secretary of Health and Human Services. What about -- have you decided whether or not you will vote for his nomination and whether it will be ultimately confirmed on the Senate floor?

BLUMENTHAL: I've supported a number of President Trump's nominees, including Elaine Chao and Wilbur Ross, who were reported (ph) out of the Commerce Committee today. I voted in favor of General Mattis. I will vote against Tom Price, mainly because he has said very specifically that he will seek to destroy a woman's right to health care. He is against the Affordable Care Act, in favor of repealing it without effectively replacing it. He's in favor of block granting Medicaid. All of these kinds of stands, and others, lead me to vote against his nomination. He is, in effect, against many of the essential programs and policies that he's been nominated to carry out. And I think that is a disservice to those programs and the people they serve and to the nation.

[13:25:27] BLITZER: But, senator, I assume you acknowledge that the Republicans, they have the majority in the Senate -- they have 52 Republicans, 48 Democrats -- unless some Republicans bolt, all of these individuals who you oppose, they will be sworn in. You appreciate that?

BLUMENTHAL: I not only understand and appreciate it, but I have to deal with it. And so we're trying to persuade some of our Republican colleagues that their own constituents, the people they represent in their states, will be disserved by many of these policies. And, for example, putting Medicaid on block grants or destroying Medicare by privatizing it, both stands of Tom Price's, would be very bad for a lot of the people who voted for President Trump and who voted for our Republican colleagues and that's why I think we have a shot.

For example, on Scott Pruitt, who's been nominated to head the EPA. His record is of suing the EPA to block the air and water quality programs that he is supposed to implement. He has tried to stop the clean power plant. He said that climate change is under debate. Those kinds of doubts and dismissal of the policies that he's supposed to carry out I think deserve a "no" vote. And we're working on our Republican colleagues to persuade them. BLITZER: One quick question before I let you go, senator. Mike Pompeo, he has been confirmed. He has now been sworn in as new CIA director. You were not able to vote on the Senate floor because weather kept you from getting back to Washington on time. How would you have voted if you could have?

BLUMENTHAL: I would have voted against director -- now Director Pompeo because of the questions that I raised, and others did as well, about the massive surveillance program that he has indicated he wants to implement, a surveillance program that involves combining lifestyle and other personal information with a database of new surveillance. I want more answers to those questions. And I think that he has adopted certain policies based on political goals over national security interests.

BLITZER: How will you vote on the Nikki Haley confirmation as the next U.S. ambassador to the U.N.?

BLUMENTHAL: I will vote in favor of Nikki Haley to be U.N. ambassador. I think that she has a firm grasp on the threat posed by the Russians. She's indicated that the Russians will push us as far and as hard as they can if we do not push back. And she's also indicated a very realistic view of what our role should be at the U.N., particularly in protecting the Israeli position against the very biased and one-sided view that's been expressed often, as you know. So I will vote for Nikki Haley.

BLITZER: Senator Blumenthal, thanks very much for joining us.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.

BLITZER: Coming up, we're only moments away from the White House daily press briefing. The press secretary, Sean Spicer, expected to address a whole range of questions, including all the hearings underway up on Capitol Hill. You're looking at live pictures coming in from the Briefing Room over at the White House. He'll also update us on the president's meeting. The president earlier today said by next week he'll announce a Supreme Court nominee.

Lots to discuss. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)