Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Easing of Russian Sanctions; Raid in Yemen; Trump's Call with Australian PM. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 02, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:03] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We got some new information. You're getting more information on the actual U.S. operation. I take it was -- that military personnel from the United Arab Emirates were involved as well.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. And I -- what you heard from Sean Spicer there. He was very careful because he was asked the question why exactly, initially, the White House described that raid in Yemen as a success. It was in a statement on Sunday that they called it a successful operation.

We started to hear Sean Spicer, sort of, clarify that yesterday by saying, well, it's not a success if you have a loss of life when it comes to a U.S. service member. And he talked about that a bit more here in the briefing.

But I think what was also interesting, Wolf, was he, sort of, walked through the process that this White House went through in authorizing that raid. He talked about the fact that this was something that was being looked at during the last days of the Obama administration.

But the concern was, among the planners of the mission, that they wait for a moonless night. And that was going to come at the end of January when President Trump would be president.

And so, he, sort of, walked through the different meetings that were had. He talked about one dinner that happened the Saturday before the raid during which you had people like, you know, General Mattis and other key aides, key people inside the president's national security team involved in that.

But he also mentioned that Steve Bannon was involved in this conversation, who is the chief strategist to the president, has been a controversial figure so far for this administration, and also Jared Kushner, his son-in-law.

So, you're going to have some critics who are going to look at that, Wolf, and say that that's a little bit unusual to have the president's son-in-law involved in conversations about a mission as critical as this.

But what you heard, ultimately, from Sean Spicer during this briefing is saying that, in their view, this was a very, very well thought-out process. And he, sort of, meticulously walked us through the various meetings that took place before this raid was launched.

And then, he went on to say that the president was kept up to speed while he was in the residence on all of the developments of the raid, including the loss of life to vet Navy SEAL, Ryan Owen -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And very quickly, I know you've got to run. But the phone conversation that the president had over the weekend with the Australian prime minister. There is a lot, a lot of controversy now.

I want you to explain to our viewers here in the United States and around the world why President Trump has such severe concern about allowing about 1,500 refugees that the Obama administration agreed could come in from islands off the coast of Australia to the United States.

ACOSTA: Right. And we were reporting on some of this last night, Wolf, during this phone call between President Trump and Prime Minister Turnbull of Australia. The president relayed his concerns that he does not like this deal, this arrangement that was worked out by the Obama administration, to have those individuals come to the U.S.

You heard Sean Spicer say here at the podium. And it was a -- it was a pretty -- it was a pretty scathing critique of that agreement. He said the president was unbelievably upset about this deal and relayed those concerns to the prime minister.

And what Sean Spicer went on to say is that, you know, he is going to --the president is going to honor this agreement that was cut by the Obama administration. But he's going to insist that extreme vetting be applied to those individuals before they come into the U.S. And so, that -- I think that is a development there.

But, Wolf, it gets to this larger -- this conversation gets to a larger question as to why the president was having these testy exchanges with these foreign leaders on -- you know, this was just as he's coming into office and having these phone calls with these foreign leaders.

And, you know, whether it's with the Mexican, Enrique Pena Nieto, or the prime minister of Australia. It sounds like, from talking to sources who are familiar with these phone calls, that these were some pretty testy changes between the president and some of these foreign leaders.

I talked to one source last night who said there were staffers inside the White House whose faces were turning white because they were aghast at some of the details coming out of these phone conversations.

The president, for example, telling Enrique Pena Nieto that he was willing to send U.S. troops down to Mexico to get the, quote, unquote, "bad hombres" down there. That is -- that is the kind of language that, perhaps, happens privately in these discussions, Wolf.

Let's make no mistake. President Obama probably had very tourist discussions when Vladamir Putin when he was in office. And the details of which we never got, but I'm sure that those were some pretty uncomfortable discussions at times.

But these details did leak out and it -- and it does paint a picture of some pretty testy exchanges between the president and some of these foreign leaders -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It certainly does. All right, Jim Acosta at the White House. Thanks very much. We'll get back to you.

I want to get some perspective from our panel. We have our CNN Global Affairs Analyst Kimberly Dozier with us. She's a contributor writer -- contributing writer for "The Daily Beast." A.B. Stoddard is with us, Associate Editor, Columnist for "Real Clear Politics." Our CNN Global Affairs Correspondent Elise Labott and our Chief Analyst Gloria Borger is with us as well.

[13:05:14] You know, Elise, you've been doing a lot of reporting on the Australia, the phone conversation. I'm going to play the clip. This is Sean Spicer explaining the nature of this huge uproar that has developed with one of America's closest allies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN SPICER, U.S. WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president is unbelievably disappointed in the previous administration's deal that was made. And how poorly it was crafted and the threat to national security it put the United States on.

He has tremendous respect for the prime minister and the Australian people and has agreed to continue to review that deal. And to ensure part of the deal, which was always part of it, that we would go through a very, very extreme vetting process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. So, you heard, Elise, and you've been doing some reporting on this. An extreme vetting process, no guarantee, no hundred percent guarantee those refugees, those 1,500 refugees that the Obama administration agreed could come to the United States following vetting would be allowed.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, and from the more that we've been reporting this out, it does seem that the president is intent on allowing this deal to go through, although he made clear he wasn't happy with it. Perhaps there might be more extreme vetting, in his words, of some of these people.

But the U.S. did make a deal and -- but I think the testiness of the phone call. There were some reports that the president hung up on the prime minister. I'm told that's not entirely true but I was told it was a very tense phone call.

And I just think it goes to the style of this president. You know, look, his in your face, kind of bull in a china shop style got him elected. Very popular among a large section of the American people.

But when -- there's just a language that you use in diplomacy and around the world and a formality, especially when you're getting to know these world leaders and forming a relationship with them, that I think is being lost. His, you know, certain charm that some Americans might see it as is getting lost on the world leaders.

And I think they're looking for the more, kind of, statesmen- like discussion. Listen, I have some problems with this deal. This was not negotiated by me and my staff. I want to take a look at it.

But to say -- you know, to say that this is a bad deal and it was stupid and I can't believe you did it. And then, to go on Twitter and call it dumb. I mean, these world leaders' heads are spinning right now. And they don't know how to respond because this is nothing like anything they've ever known.

BLITZER: Yes. The president is concerned there could be a Boston bomber among those refugees. That's what he's saying.

The phone call was supposed to last for an hour between the U.S. president, the Australian prime minister. It lasted only about 25 minutes and that's seen not necessarily wanting to hang up or end it abruptly. But certainly, it was a lot shorter than originally scheduled.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, I think the one thing that those of us who have covered the campaign and have gotten to know the way Donald Trump behaves is that nuance which is the language of diplomacy is not the language of Donald Trump. OK?

There is no nuance in Donald Trump. That is, partly, what got him elected. But he is in a different (INAUDIBLE.)

My question is that if you are inside the White House and you are a top aide to Donald Trump, whether it's Reince Priebus or even Steve Bannon, who is saying to the president, maybe this isn't the best way to behave on your first phone call with another leader of another country.

I mean, there are people inside the White House, I will tell you, who believe that, look, this is Donald Trump. This is what his voters want. Why should he mince words? He's not an ambassador. He's the president.

But there are others, and Jim Acosta was saying, who turned white. You know, there are others who believe that this is, in the long run, going to cost us when we when we need some favors done, when we share intelligence as we do with Australia.

So, I think that it opens a window onto the way this White House is run and to the question of who is managing Donald Trump?

BLITZER: We have a clip -- I think we have a clip of what the president said at a prayer breakfast, the national prayer breakfast this morning, on those phone calls. I think we have that clip. Let's play it right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The world is in trouble but we're going to straighten it out, OK? That's what I do. I fix things. We're going to straighten it out. Believe me, when you hear about the tough phone calls I'm having, don't worry about it. Just don't worry about it. They're tough. We have to be tough.

It's time we're going to be a little tough, folks. We're taken advantage of by every nation in the world virtually. It's not going to happen anymore. It's not going to happen anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:10:04] BLITZER: All right, tough words from the president of the United States.

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Tough words and yet I've heard from one senior European diplomat that they're now learning what to expect. They're getting, kind of, numb to the shock. They realize that when their leader calls Donald Trump, they're to get one of two. Either the one who flatters them or the one who's the tough talker, who is the tough negotiator.

What the Trump presidency risks, however, is undermining the seriousness of these discussions by making them clown-like. And we'll have to see what follows. Will action follow this?

Because if it's just bluster every time but then the nations learn that you go talk to the diplomats, you go talk to the staffers, and that's how you really get things done, these things will become -- these phone calls will become an entertaining formality but nothing more.

BLITZER: All right, everybody stand by. There's more information coming in. We're only just getting started this hour. We're learning, also, some new details about that deadly U.S. counterterrorism raid in Yemen that killed a U.S. Navy SEAL, as well as Yemeni civilians and children. We'll also discuss that and much more.

Senator Ben Cardin, the ranking member of the Foreign Relations Committee, he's standing by. We'll get to him.

Lots more of the breaking news right after this.

[13:11:25]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:15:14] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: The breaking news we're following, the Kremlin now reacting to news that the U.S. Treasury Department is easing at least one sanction that was imposed at the very end of the Obama administration against Russia.

Let's go to Moscow. Our senior international correspondent Matthew Chance is getting the reaction.

What are they saying, Matthew?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, initially the reaction was quite - it was quite dramatic in the sense that many people in the Russian authorities, the - one parliamentarian in particular who used to be a director of the (INAUDIBLE), the federal security services, saying that this is the start of a new corporation in counterterrorism, this easing of this small part of this - this - the sanctions by the United States against Russia. These are part of the sanctions that were imposed by President Obama in the final weeks of his administration in December 2016, just last month, that connected with the alleged Russian hacking of the U.S. election. It's - these are the sanctions that many analysts believe will be the first to go if that starts to happen because Donald Trump, the U.S. president, of course, is fundamentally opposed to the bases of those sanctions.

Look, I mean now it's emerged that it's only a small change. The White House, the Treasury, is casting it as a technical change, an innocuous technical change. The Kremlin appears to have been taken unawares of this. They didn't discuss the possibility, they say, of sanctions being alleviated when they had a phone call - when the phone call between Putin and Trump took place on Saturday, a few days ago, and they were basically wrong-footed on this. The Kremlin's just got back to me actually with reaction to the news of this small change, saying that we care about it, they said, but we don't care very much. And so I think that just about sums it up, the position in Russia right now.

BLITZER: But it was - it potentially could be seen, Matthew, as sort of symbolic because this was a sanction that was imposed against what's called the Russia - Russian Federal Security Service, the FSB, an intelligence service, that, as you know, was accused by the U.S. intelligence community of being directly involved in the hacking of the Democratic Party, of the Hillary Clinton campaign. They specifically cited the FSB. So even if it's only a very, very modest easing of one sanction that's going forward, the symbolism potentially could be interpreted by some as significant. I just wanted to get your reaction.

CHANCE: No, yes, absolutely. I mean any - any alleviation of sanctions, any movement in that direction, goes against the cause of what we've been seeing over the course of the past several years. There was a reaction on the market. The ruble strengthened, the Russian currency strengthened as a result of this announcement, although it's picked back, you know, as it's become more explained.

And you're right, it was the FSB that was accused by the intelligence services in the United States of effectively being behind the election hack. And so for - for that organization, the success (ph) organization of the KGB to be identified in this way for some of the - for the first sign of easing that we've had in years, frankly, I think is important. It is symbolic, and it potentially points to the direction of travel in the years ahead in the Trump administration.

BLITZER: All right, Matthew, thank you very much. Matthew Chance in Moscow for us.

We're also getting some new details from the White House on how a raid in Yemen that left a U.S. Navy SEAL dead was planned and approved. The White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, telling reports just moments ago that President Donald Trump signed off on the plan after it had been approved by the secretary of defense, James Mattis.

Let's discuss this and a lot more. Senator Ben Cardin is joining us. He's a Democrat from Maryland, the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Senator, thanks very much for joining us.

SEN. BEN CARDIN (D), MARYLAND: Wolf, it's always a pleasure to be with you. Thank you.

BLITZER: All right, let's talk about this very limited easing of one sanction against the FSB, the Russian intelligence service. I'm going to play the clip. This is Sean Spicer speaking about that just a little while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Why is the administration easing sanctions against Russia at a time that -

SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We're not easing sanctions. The Treasury Department - it is, from what I understand, is a fairly common - it's a fairly common practice for the Treasury Department, after sanctions are put in place, to go back and to look at whether or not there needs to be specific carve outs for different, you know, either industries or products and services that need to be going back and forth. But I would refer you back to the Treasury Department on that one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, senator, your reaction?

CARDIN: It's absolutely the wrong thing to do. It's the wrong message. It sends the signal to Russia that their attack against the United States was OK, that they can continue to occupy Crimea and invade the eastern part of Ukraine. That what they're doing in Syria, there's going to be no consequences. It's absolutely the wrong message.

[13:20:10] The Russian security forces, which are the ones that are getting the benefit of this change, were directly involved in the cyberattack against the United States. So it's just the wrong thing.

BLITZER: Let's talk about Yemen for a moment. I assume you've been briefed on the U.S. military operation in Yemen, working with Emirati (ph) military personnel. A U.S. Navy SEAL was killed in the process. What are you being told about this operation? Was it a botched raid? CARDIN: Well, we're still finding out the specifics. A lot of it is in

a format that I'm not allow - or we're not - we're not going to be able to talk about. So we have not yet been fully briefed. We know that it didn't go according to schedule. That there was information that looks like was not as accurate as it should have been. So we're still trying to figure out information. There is lives that were lost. Obviously there's some very dangerous people in Yemen that we have to get, but it's got to be done in a way that is safe for our personnel and the civilian population.

BLITZER: Let's talk about the U.S./Australian relationship for a moment while I have you, senator. CNN is reporting details of the phone call that President Trump had with the Australian prime minister supposedly ending abruptly. It apparently didn't end all that abruptly but it was reduced to only 25 minutes. It was supposed to go on for an hour. What are you hearing about that specific phone conversation? How much difficulty is there right now in this U.S./Australia relationship?

CARDIN: Wolf, this is very confusing. Australia is one of our closest allies. They have been a true partner of the United States in so many of our efforts globally. It's hard to imagine that in the first conversation between the prime minister and the president that it would end so badly.

And my understanding it had a lot to do with the president's executive order which is being challenged by world leaders throughout the world as to why the United States all of a sudden is changing its policy on refugees and is restricting entry into our country from Muslim countries. All of that is causing a lot of anxiety with our closest allies globally and there's got to be candid discussions between our friends, such as the Australian prime minister and the president. And if you can't have that candid discussion without the president making it difficult, it's going to be a tough relationship.

BLITZER: Do you think President Trump should live up to the commitment made by President Obama to accept those 1,500 refugees who are on these islands off the coast of Australia?

CARDIN: America's always been in the leadership on the refugee issues. We've not had problems with the refugees. We vet them very, very, very carefully before they come into this country. I met with King Abdullah yesterday of Jordan. They have 650,000 Syrian refugees. I met with the prime - the foreign minister of Germany. They're up to maybe as much as a million refugees coming into their country. The few numbers that we're talking about, properly vetted, America should welcome.

BLITZER: Ben Cardin, the senator from Maryland.

Senator Cardin, thanks very much for joining us.

CARDIN: Thank you. It's good being with you.

BLITZER: We're going to go back to the White House. The president's been meeting with officials, business executives, union leaders involved in Harley-Davidson. We're going to have more on that. The president now speaking. We'll go back to the White House right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:27:59] BLITZER: Right now over at the White House, President Trump is meeting with Harley-Davidson executives. They've come in from Wisconsin for a meeting. The meeting actually was supposed to take place in Wisconsin, in Milwaukee. The president was supposed to be out there today, but Harley-Davidson officials were concerned about protests, so instead they brought their motorcycles. They came to the White House. Here's the president speaking just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, it's great to have Harley-Davidson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's great to be here.

TRUMP: What a great group of people. And what a fantastic job you do. And thank you for all of the votes you gave me in Wisconsin. Some people thought that was an upset. I thought we were going to win it. From the beginning we thought we were going to win it.

Harley-Davidson is a true American icon. One of the greats. Your motorcycles have carried American service members in the war - in the wars. They take care of our police officers. And I see it so often, whenever I go, whenever there's a motorcycle group, oftentimes it's a Harley. And the sound of that Harley is a little different. I have to tell you, it's really good.

So, thank you, Harley-Davidson, for building things in America. I think you're going to even expand. I know your business is now doing very well and there's a - there's a lot of spirit right now in the country that you weren't having so much in the last number of months that you have right now. You see what's happening.

I'm especially honored to welcome the steelworkers and the machinists to the White House. Who's a steel worker? Well, you're all steelworkers essentially, right? But you folks have been terrific to me. Sometimes your top people didn't support me, but the steelworkers supported me, right? A lot of your top people, they'll be losing their jobs pretty soon, I guess, but they're all coming around (INAUDIBLE). We're getting them. But the workers supported us big league.

[13:29:53] We want to make it easier for businesses to create more jobs and more factories in the United States. And you're a great example of it. That means we have to make America the best country on earth to do business and that's what we're in the process of doing. We're redoing NAFTA, redoing a lot of our trade deals and we're negotiating properly with countries, even countries