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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Man With Machete Attacks Soldiers Near Famed Museum; Trump: "Radical Islamic Terrorist" Attacks Museum; Tough Talk From Trump On International Issues; Will Tillerson, Mattis Adopt More Nuanced Approach?; European Leaders Denounce Trump's Comments; Theresa May And Angela Merkel Cancel Sideline Meeting; Trump's Latest Foreign Policy Moves; U.S. Announces New Sanctions Against Iran; Japan Concerned About U.S. Military Support. Aired 3-3:30p ET
Aired February 3, 2017 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live at CNN London. Happy Friday, everyone, wherever you're
watching in the world. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
Well, it's arguably the world's most famous museum. It was closed today after a man with a machete charged police in a shopping mall beneath the
Louvre. French authorities have now opened a terror investigation. No one was killed in the attack, but it did prompt immediate political reaction.
From Paris, here's Melissa Bell.
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The French capital is once again on edge. Security forces rushed to the scene of an attack near one
of the city's most iconic cultural landmarks. At 10:00 a.m. local time, a man wielding a machete approached French soldiers on guard near the Louvre
Museum. Police say the man yelled "Allahu Akbar, God is great," while trying to stab the serviceman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): A soldier suffered injuries to his scalp. The soldier fired five shots, seriously injuring the attacker,
especially with a shot to the stomach.
BELL: This picture from social media shows a soldier standing over a man lying on the ground. The incident caused panic in the surrounding area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): It happened very quickly. Really, it all went quickly. Everyone was panicking. We thought of our
lives. We saw death coming for us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We heard gunshots, we didn't know what it was.
BELL: Despite his injuries, police say the attacker was still conscious when he was taken to hospital. Following the incident, the Louvre went
into lockdown. Tourists crouched, unable to leave. Group by group, visitors were evacuated, but only after being screened by authorities.
Nearby streets were sealed off. The French prime minister described the attack as terrorist in nature, and the Paris prosecutor has opened a terror
GORANI: Well, the Louvre was set to reopen to visitors tomorrow morning if you're in the French capital. Let's cross over there for the very latest.
CNN's Melissa Bell has more information on what the prosecutor has just said. Do we know more about the suspect, first of all?
BELL: We know a lot more than we did just before (inaudible), Paris' prosecutor began speaking about a quarter of an hour ago. Hala, all kinds
of rumors have been swirling around all afternoon, as you would expect after this kind of attack.
Of course, everyone wanting to know, exactly who was this man, what were his motivations? What we now know is that he was a 29-year-old Egyptian
who came to France on the 26th of January on his tourist visa he obtained in Dubai back in October.
We now know also that he was staying in an apartment hotel about a block away from here, a street that was on lockdown this afternoon, as police
raided it, looking for evidence.
Not a great deal was found there, Hala, but they did find a considerable amount of cash and a receipt showed that the man had bought the two
machetes that he'd attacked the military, the soldiers, in a Paris shop.
So those are the elements that we have so far. The man has not been named. Francois (inaudible) is very cautious about that, but clearly said that
this is the beginning of the investigation.
One of the big questions he said will be to work out whether or not this man was acting alone or on orders or, indeed, within a wider network.
GORANI: Yes, that's always the question, isn't it, in the beginning. I understand there was a second arrest. Can you tell us more about that?
BELL: There was a second arrest that we heard about just after the attack got underway. And of course, the police were very cautious to say that
they couldn't establish a link with the attackers, although this man was also arrested at the Louvre. No news on that so far tonight.
That is also part of an ongoing investigation, Hala. And as you heard in that report, all of those unfortunate tourists, and we spoke to a bunch of
them coming out of the Louvre, many of them quite shocked about what they live through, were made to hunker down in various parts of the museum for a
couple of hours before coming out.
All of them, though, were screened. Clearly, the police were concerned that accomplices could have been amongst them.
GORANI: Right. Difficult time, the last thing Paris needs especially in terms of attracting tourists right now. Thanks very much, Melissa Bell in
the French capital.
[15:05:04]Well, Donald Trump was very quick to react to the attack on the Louvre, taking to his favorite mode of communication and that is Twitter.
He wrote, "A new radical Islamic terrorist has just attacked in Louvre Museum in Paris. Tourists were locked down, France on edge again. Get
smart U.S." This is just the latest international issue the president has waded into in recent days.
Let's break it all down with Karen Tumulty, a national political correspondent for "The Washington Post" and joins us live. Karen, nice to
see you on this Friday.
Let's first talk about Donald Trump tweeting immediately about this Paris attack. Of course, his administration has come under fire for this
temporary travel ban. This, I'm sure, a way to justify at least some of that policy.
KAREN TUMULTY, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "WASHINGTON POST": Yes, it's sort of extraordinary. And we're just not even, you know, not even
weeks into this presidency, and, it's gotten him to the point where you wake up in the morning, if you're a reporter in Washington and the first
thing you do is check your Twitter feed to see what the president's up to.
Normally, presidents don't sort of weigh in and comment on international incidents like this before they know the facts, but that doesn't really
seem to stop President Trump.
GORANI: Well, and he didn't, for instance, interestingly, comment on the Quebec attack, for instance.
TUMULTY: That's right. That's right. I mean, he is -- he is someone for whom fear is actually almost a governing tool and it's really a break with
our tradition, I think. I think we think of U.S. presidents as people who stand up at moments of crisis, at moments of fear, and actually calm the
Whether it was George W. Bush standing on the rubble of the World Trade Center or Bill Clinton in Oklahoma City, or you know, certainly the whole
presidency of Franklin D. Roosevelt, we actually think of our presidents as almost, you know, soothers, calming forces. And Donald Trump seems to
operate on the opposite principle, which is he really likes to stir fear and stir concern.
GORANI: Now, his adviser, his close adviser, Kellyanne Conway, came under fire in the last 24 hours, for comments she made during an interview with
MSNBC, the American network, essentially manufacturing a massacre, an attack in Kentucky that never happened. I want our viewers to listen to
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLYANNE CONWAY, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER: I bet there was very little coverage. I bet it's brand-new information to people that President Obama
had a six-month ban on the Iraqi refugee program after two Iraqis came here to this country, were radicalized, and they were the masterminds behind the
Bowling Green massacre. People don't know that because it didn't get covered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: It didn't get covered, obviously, Karen, because it never happened. But I wonder, would any other administration be able to weather
something like this. It seems like the Trump administration is immune to this type of -- I mean, call it what you want, but just misstatement of
facts over and over again.
TUMULTY: It certainly seems in the early weeks of it. The question is whether, as time goes on, as weeks and months and years go on, whether this
sort of loose relationship with the facts ultimately starts to become a corrosive force with them.
Because at some point, you know, sadly, there is likely to be a moment of national crisis. And if, essentially, they've been chicken littling it all
the way through, it's going to be hard, then, to be taken seriously when the moment itself is very serious or dire, God forbid.
GORANI: Yes. And one quick word on foreign policy here. We've -- there are three big elements, the Iran sanctions, new sanctions against Iran for
that ballistic missile test, Crimea, Russia, Nikki Haley, very interesting statement at the United Nations there, essentially saying, you know, give
Crimea back to Ukraine or those sanctions will probably stay in place.
And then another statement, much more in keeping, for instance, with the Obama administration, would do with Israel settlements saying they are not
helpful. It seems as though we're seeing sort of a reentering of the foreign policy of President Trump. And if so, why is that?
TUMULTY: I think it's in reaction to actual facts on the ground and the real forces that are out there in the world. Now, every president comes to
office and has to reorient what he promises in his campaign. That's just sort of the way it works, but it is striking how these positions are not
only at odds with what President Trump campaigned on, but also very much aligned with what, you know, President Obama did in the same situation.
GORANI: Could it be the Tillerson/Mattis effect? I mean, they're finally in place. Mattis, well respected, new defense secretary?
TUMULTY: It may be, but I think that at this point we're so early in the Trump administration, we don't know that tomorrow they might just go back
the other direction.
[15:10:10]There has not really been a great deal of consistency at this point and we still have, you know, the advisers in the White House who are
on a very different page than some of the people in the cabinet.
GORANI: Well, I guess we'll just have to check Twitter to find out. Thanks very much, Karen Tumulty --
TUMULTY: Get up early.
GORANI: That's right. Karen Tumulty at "The Washington Post," we appreciate your time this evening.
TUMULTY: Thank you.
GORANI: Karen was saying the path forward is uncertain, and it is uncertain all over the world. That was the focus of an informal summit of
European leaders in Malta today. They expressed concern over some of Donald Trump's policy choices.
Their message to the U.S. president, we want to work with you, but the future of the European Union is ours to determine. Malta's Prime Minister
Joseph Muscat, warned Donald Trump, we will not sit silent when European interests are at stake.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH MUSCAT, PRIME MINISTER OF MALTA: There was a sense that we need to engage with the United States just the same, but we need to show where we
need to do that, that we cannot stay silent where there are principles involved. And as in any good relationship, we have and we will speak very
clearly where we think those principles are being trampled on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, talk about the U.S. president cast a shadow on the meeting, where we mentioned leaders are supposed to be debating the future of the
European Union and the migrant crisis. Word from Francois Hollande, he's outgoing. He seems to be speaking more freely. We also heard from the
Australian chancellor, tough words against Donald Trump.
Nic Robertson join us now in Malta with more. So perhaps not the kind of diplomatic tone that you normally hear at summits like this about the U.S.
president from these European leaders, Nic?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, no, certainly not. I mean, President Francois Hollande, when he arrived here, as you
say, he's the outgoing president of France and he really doesn't have anything to lose in his personal relationship with President Trump.
But he was very clear. He said, you know, we don't believe, Europe doesn't want this pressure from the United States, telling us who we should be and
who we shouldn't be. There's real concern here that they don't know the sort of relationship that they can have with the United States right now.
There's concern about the sort of rise of populism and nationalism in Europe and they think Donald Trump unleashes some of that. But
interestingly, I was standing here a few minutes ago, talking with the prime minister of Malta, who's hosted the talks here, Joseph Muscat, we
just heard from him there.
And he was saying, this really, in a way, this summit here, there's a sense it's a coming of age of Europe, where reluctantly, they recognize that they
need to step up and be the world leader to talk about free trade, to talk about liberal values.
And so I put it to him. I said, that sounds interesting, because every American diplomat for the past 60 to 70 years has always said, Europe has
to get its act together, Europe has to stand up and be strong. Europe has to act with one voice.
And here in the space of two weeks, President Trump, has effectively united Europe, united the European Union. And he said, yes, I agree with that,
but, may not be --
GORANI: There may be --
ROBERTSON: -- may not be intended.
GORANI: There may be one holdout, and that is Theresa May, the U.K. prime minister, who had the first visit to the U.S. of a foreign leader last
week. Also, I understand there was supposed to be a Theresa May/Angela Merkel lunch today. It didn't happen. Is there some sort of tension?
What's going on? Is it Brexit related?
ROBERTSON: Yes, and that depends whose spin you listen to, I think. I mean, the British spin doctors at number ten were predicting that meeting
sort of in the sidelines here. It didn't happen just before lunch. They said, it's not going to happen.
You know, there was a long walk to the boat where leaders had lunch on a boat, and coming back from that long walk, Merkel and May did stand side by
side and talk, walk along and chat, and according to British officials, they covered all the topics they wanted to cover.
I mean, Theresa May has been wanting to talk to Angela Merkel for some time. We don't know the content of what they said. But we do know that
when it was the -- the question was raised, you know, Theresa May can essentially be a go-between across the Transatlantic.
That, it is, you know, politicians here were saying the most important political thing they can do right now is make that Transatlantic, that
Theresa May can somehow be a go between. Donald Tusk said, yes, she could be. But the Lithuanian prime minister, however, said, no way, essentially,
in a tweet.
GORANI: OK, no way, could be, may be, they covered everything, they didn't cover everything. I get -- it seems like a lot was going on and certainly
maybe we didn't get the whole story. Thanks very much, Nic Robertson.
[15:15:06]ROBERTSON: A lot more than they expected.
GORANI: That's right. Still to come tonight, new sanctions against Iran, a warning on Israeli settlements, and condemnation of Russia at the U.N.
The U.S. foreign policy approach continues at breakneck speed. We'll analyze in a few minutes.
And from chief executives to executive orders, Donald Trump focuses on finance. We'll be right back.
GORANI: Well, in his first two weeks, President Trump has proven to be unpredictable in his approach to foreign policy among many other things.
The whirlwind diplomacy continues.
First, let's talk about Iran. The Trump administration enacted new sanctions today, targeting individuals and companies connected to Iran's
ballistic missile program. Tehran has come out today and called them illegal.
And a warning over Israeli settlements activity in the West Bank, which the administration says could hamper peace efforts. Now that is a new stance
for a White House that has remained staunchly supportive of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
And finally, a strong condemnation of Russia. The American ambassador to the U.N., Nikki Haley, calling on Moscow to de-escalate violence in Eastern
Ukraine and saying U.S. sanctions would remain in place until Russia withdraws from Crimea.
Let's untangle all of this with our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour. First of all, what should we make of all this saber
rattling on Iran from the Trump administration?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, it aligns with what Donald Trump said on the campaign, that he was going to
get tough with Iran, that the Obama administration was weak on Iran and the nuke deal was no good.
And you know that his National Security Adviser, General Michael Flynn, is very hard line on Iran, so are others in the administration, including
General Mattis. So this is a quite -- what they said they were going to do.
I think what's really important, though, is that while they've done this, and it makes them look tough, they have not talked about ripping up the
nuclear deal. And that's pretty important, because that is what he said along the campaign that he was going to do.
I mean, you can never say never, but most people believe that on that issue, nuclear, that is the best deal you're going to get at the moment.
GORANI: So what's the point, then?
AMANPOUR: The point is to look tough. They want to pressure Iran --
AMANPOUR: No, it's not just optics, they actually want to pressure Iran to deliver more than just a nuclear agreement. They want Iran to stop with
its missiles. They want Iran to stop with a state sponsoring terrorism or the things they accuse Iran of.
And so this is what they're going to try to do. They're going to try, maybe even to renegotiate or add coders to the nuclear deal, that includes
the things that were not discussed, and those were the missiles and the Hezbollah and this and that.
GORANI: What is Iran trying to achieve, though? Because this ballistic missile testing would have known, would have been an issue for --
AMANPOUR: Well, yes and no. This is where it's really tricky because the U.N. Security Council has a sort of loophole wiggle room in it. The
resolution, which condemns and prohibits Iranian ballistic missile activity specifically says, if it is linked to delivering a nuclear warhead, and the
Iranians say, it wasn't.
[15:20:14]And we don't have nuclear warheads and this is not what this was intended for, this is basic defensive, you know, military testing that we
have every right to do.
And now, of course, now they're threatening to retaliate in some way, not militarily, but especially against the immigration ban, which really hit
GORANI: And let's talk about these two other big foreign policy sort of positions of the Trump administration that kind of seem like a reversal or
at least a re-centering. Let's talk first about Nikki Haley at the U.N. that was a remarkable statement, saying to Russia, these sanctions are
staying in place as long as you don't withdraw from Crimea.
AMANPOUR: I think that probably surprised a lot of people. Probably made a lot of sense to Europeans, obviously, it came after his meeting with
Theresa May, who would have given him that message, that sure, we want a better relationship with Russia, but these sanctions remain until they go
back to respecting international law, and they don't get away, as a big nation, invading and annexing a smaller country.
GORANI: But they're not withdrawing from Crimea?
AMANPOUR: Well, no, but that means there's going to be a problem. You know, sanctions presumably are going to stay. Everybody thought that in
that first phone call, although it was, you know, sort of pushed to the side before the phone call, but everybody thought the first time that there
was some kind of, you know, connection between Putin and Trump, that sanctions would immediately be in play. And now they've said, no, that's
not going to happen.
GORANI: That's interesting, also, settlement activity, saying, quote, this is a line we hear a lot from many administrations, before the Trump
administration, this is not helpful to expand settlements in the West Bank and we're hearing it now from the Trump administration, which is
AMANPOUR: It is. It's still not quite as strong language as previous administrations and the U.N. settlements are illegal, under international
law, on occupied territory, and they stand in the way of a negotiated settlement.
So Donald Trump is saying two things, one, we still believe in potentially a negotiated settlement and we don't want to mess it up and we don't want
to, you know, make sure there's no negotiations possible.
And two, you know, the prime minister and especially the right flank near the prime minister of Israel have been, you know, getting permissions to
put houses in East Jerusalem and other sort of settlement activity outposts and things like that. And now they're saying, no, you can't put a whole
new settlement there. That's standard American policy.
GORANI: And it's still just a statement. It's not like there would be any kind of consequence for expansion --
AMANPOUR: Exactly right. Of course, Europe, though, is looking still quite askance, because they believe the Trump administration or the E.U. is
looking askance, supports the breakup of the E.U. So it's not all hunky- dory, but on some key issues, they've gone back to the status quo.
GORANI: All right, Christiane Amanpour, thanks so much for joining us on that. The U.S. defense secretary, newly in place, is in Japan, a critical
American ally, of course. Washington maintains military bases there and many are wondering what would happen if President Trump decides to cut
funding. Here's Will Ripley.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the new U.S. defense secretary meets with Asian allies for the first place, in Japan, the U.S.
military proudly displays its Pacific power. The newest arrival at Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni, the advance hawk eye, giant flying radar to
guard against missiles and stealth fighters from China.
DAN PROCHAZKA, COMMANDING OFFICER, VAW-125: The radar has a greatly improved ability to both detect and track objects out there in the air and
on the surface.
RIPLEY: At this key U.S. air base, more aerial firepower, F-35 lightning fighters, the most advanced and expensive weapons system in the world.
Each jet, more than $100 million. A supersonic show of force against China's advancing military and North Korean leader, Kim Jong-Un's, growing
(on camera): Here at Air Station Iwakuni, they're expanding, bringing in more planes and more people. But keeping U.S. forces here in Japan is
expensive. More than $10 billion a year. The U.S. and Japan split the cost about 50/50 right now, but President Trump says allies need to pay
(voice-over): Comments during the campaign stoked fears President Trump may walk away from U.S. defense commitments.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At some point, we have to say, you know what, we're better off if japan protects itself against this
maniac in North Korea.
RIPLEY: The president meets with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, next week. This week, Trump's defense secretary, James Mattis, is on his first
overseas trip, meeting with counterparts in South Korea and japan, a trip that could help ease anxiety about the new administration.
SHINICHIRU KAWAKAMI, WASEDA UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR: The most important thing is a favor, U.S./japan, and U.S./Japan alliance is going to confirm or not.
If not, we have to think about our own strategy.
[15:25:03]RIPLEY: The Obama administration deployed these planes to Japan. A push to add more American military muscle to Asia Pacific. Many wonder
what could happen if the Trump administration decides to pull out. Will Ripley, CNN, Iwakuni, Japan.
GORANI: Canada is mourning the victims of a horrific attack on a mosque in Quebec City on Sunday. Mourners paid tribute to this man and two other
victims at a service in the city's convention center on Friday.
Azzedine Soufiane was a grocer and a butcher and known for helping newcomers settle into life in Quebec City. Khaled Belkacemi was also
killed by the same gunman who stormed the mosque. He was a professor of chemistry at La Valle University.
His 60-year-old son says his father emigrated from Algeria to give his family a chance at a better life away, quote, "from the harm" he says.
On Thursday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau wiped tears from his eyes at the first memorial service in Montreal. U.S. President Donald Trump called Mr.
Trudeau to offer his condolences, but for a man who often tweets about terror and violence, Mr. Trump has stayed quiet about Quebec City.
We'll talk more about the president did tweet about and more with one of his supporters, coming up next.
But first, the main contenders are gearing up ahead of the French election, and one of them is fighting to save his political life. We'll tell you
GORANI: In the past few hours, Donald Trump has signed an executive order on financial regulation. It's part of a day focused on the economic world.
The U.S. president met business leaders earlier. One notable absentee was Uber's CEO, who quit Mr. Trump's Advisory Council after pressures from
Europe's leaders are meeting in Malta today, to debate the future of the European Union and the new U.S. administration is high on the agenda.
French President Francois Hollande called some of President Trump's statements about European, quote, "unacceptable."
A French soldier has shot and wounded a man wielding a machete near the Louvre museum in Paris. Police say the attacker rushed toward a group of
soldiers shouting "Allahu Akbar." The Louvre will be closed until Saturday. The Paris prosecutor's office has opened a terrorism
Now the specter of terrorism is just one of the issues looming large as France gears up for a presidential election in just a matter of weeks.
Far-right leader, Marine Le Pen believes she can channel the populist tides of Brexit and Trump all the way to the (inaudible) palace. One of her main
rivals is facing a fight to save his campaign. Melissa Bell has our story.
BELL (voice-over): Under fire, but fighting back ahead of France's presidential election. Francois Fillon, the Republican candidate, spoke to
his supporters last night about the accusations that have cost him the lead in the polls.
FRANCOIS FILLION, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF FRANCE (through translator): I am currently under fire from continuous attacks. These attacks against a
candidate who's nominated and legitimate, chosen not just by his party but by millions of French people, have been incredibly violent.
BELL: On Sunday, his wife, the women at the center of the so-called Penelopegate scandal, was with him for another rally. Newspaper reports
that she and her children were allegedly paid government money for no-show jobs has led to an investigation by the French prosecutor's office. The
Fillons have dismissed the claims, and Penelope Fillon's lawyer told CNN that every detail of her work had been provided to the Judiciary that, now,
needed to acknowledge that the case was baseless.
But the story has led to questions about Mr. Fillon's very future as the Republican Party's candidate. Good news for Marine Le Pen. She's now
leading the polls ahead of the spring vote. The far-right leader believes that Donald Trump's victory clears the way for her own, although she was
keen to point out last week that she did not agree with his skepticism on global warming.
MARINE LE PEN, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FOR FRANCE'S NATIONAL FRONT (through translator): I can't speak for him. It's his problem or America's
problem. I'm not Donald Trump's spokesperson.
BELL: Another beneficiary of Mr. Fillon's difficulties is this man. Emmanuel Macron is riding high in the polls, looking increasingly like the
most moderate alternative to the far right. He's a new breed of candidate in France, a former Socialist who's now started his own party, also one of
the few French politicians willing to speak English.
EMMANUEL MACRON, FORMER MINISTER OF THE ECONOMY, FINANCES AND INDUSTRY OF FRANCE: Things are changing in this country because our people are
extremely aware of globalization, of disruption, and of the fact that we have to change our model.
BELL: Mr. Macron's centrist platform should be helped by the ruling Socialist's surprise leftward turn last Sunday. After a divisive primary,
the party chose the left wing Benoit Hamon as its candidate over the former Prime Minister Manuel Valls. His plan now, to seek an alliance with the
BENOIT HAMON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FOR FRANCE'S SOCIALIST PARTY: If there are differences, the ideas that we share are numerous. Never have
the forces of progress lost out by talking, by trying to work together.
BELL: For now, the polls just put the Socialist well behind Marine Le Pen in the first round of the election in April, with Emmanuel Macron second
and Francois Fillon third. They say a runoff is definitely on the cards in an election that is too tough to call.
MATHIEU DOIRET, DIRECTOR OF CLIENTELE, IPSOS POLLING INSTITUTE: We have, actually, three kinds of populism that are contending and only one
candidate that can be classified as mainstream with a real likeness of being qualified for the runoff, which is Francois Fillon. Because even
Benoit Hamon, the new candidate of the Socialist Party is not entirely mainstream.
BELL: By the evening of the 7th of May, we'll know which of the candidates is to take up residence here at the Elysee Palace. In June, parliamentary
elections will determine what sort of a parliamentary majority he or she will then have to govern.
Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.
GORANI: Let's bring in Thierry Arnaud, a chief political correspondent at BFMTV, and he joins me live now from Paris.
So, Thierry, good to see you. First, I mean, obviously, the big question people have, who don't know the intricate detail of French politics, is
they look at Marine Le Pen, they see she's leading in the polls. They saw Brexit. They saw Trump. And everyone always asks me, can she get elected?
How is she doing in the polls?
THIERRY ARNAUD, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, BFMTV: -- guarantees a spot, Hala, in this second round, the runoff that takes place two weeks
after the first round. And the good thing for her, the huge advantage, is that her electorate is very, very solid, indeed.
You know, when pollsters ask people who they want to vote for, what they usually also ask is, are you entirely certain that you're going to vote for
this candidate? And 80 percent of those polled in favor of Marine Le Pen say yes. In the case of Emmanuel Macron we just heard of, for example,
it's only 40 percent.
GORANI: Only 40 percent when asked are you entirely sure you would go for Emmanuel Macron say yes, which means there is still a lot of potential a
few weeks before the election for them to change their minds.
ARNAUD: There is, of course, but what it means is he still has a lot to prove. Whereas, on the other hand, those standing behind Marine Le Pen are
fairly certain that they want to support her.
[15:34:58] And you know, what's interesting to me is that a lot is being made about the troubles that Francois Fillon is going through and this
preliminary investigation. But there are investigations, as well, about Front National and Marine Le Pen. And there's been allegations that she
was not using properly her parliamentary assistance in the European parliament, and indeed she has to pay a heavy fine, almost 300,000 euros,
which she's refusing to do.
But what I mean by that is that, for some reason, all these things are not sticking.
ARNAUD: And she's still doing very well in the polls.
GORANI: Well, she has passionate support. I mean, I guess the same could be said for all of these sort of populist, far-right parties, is their
supporters are so passionate, so determined to vote for their candidate, that the scandals don't stick as much.
Fillon, it's sticking. With her, you know, there's this floating around this idea that she may have misused E.U. funds. Her supporters are not
going to blame her for it.
ARNAUD: No, exactly. And that's what is making her so stronger, currently. And you're entirely right. People are right to ask you that
question. It's a question we're asking ourselves. And we have to come to the conclusion, every week that goes by makes it more likely that she can
GORANI: That she can win the entire presidency, do you think, or make it to the second round?
ARNAUD: Well, she will make it to the second round, although this campaign, obviously, has been full of surprises. I have to tell you, I've
been covering elections both in France and abroad for 25 years, and I've never seen anything like this campaign. But she's looking really very good
for the second round. And I think she's looking increasingly good for the victory as well in the end.
GORANI: Well, we'll see what happens. It's certainly going to be interesting and we'll be covering it here on the program. And we'll be
speaking to you again, Thierry, very soon, hopefully. Thank you very much.
It's been a busy second week in office for the new U.S. President. In the past few days, Donald Trump has managed to upset the long-standing U.S.
alliance with Australia. He' he fired the acting Attorney General, Sally Yates, after she declined to defend his travel ban. And President Trump
also put Iran on notice.
So what does one of his supporters think about all of these? CNN Political Commentator Jeffrey Lord joins me now via Skype from Harrisburg,
Thanks for being with us, Jeffrey.
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hello there, Hala. How are you?
GORANI: Good. I just got to ask you first about Kellyanne Conway. I mean, she's talking about massacres that never happened, about bans that
never happened. I mean, if someone gets their facts so wrong, whose job it is to talk to the media about Donald Trump's administration, should she be
in her job?
LORD: Sure. I've known Kellyanne for years. She's the ultimate professional. She clearly misspoke on the Bowling Green situation, but as
it happens, I had written about Bowling Green just this week here for the Harrisburg "Patriot-News," my hometown paper.
And that situation involved a couple of Iraqi refugees who were placed in Bowling Green by the Obama administration in a refugee situation, and then
later discovered by the FBI, one of them, to have planted an IED in Iraq. And they matched the fingerprints to all of those refugees, came up with
this guy in Bowling Green. And there was another guy he was living with, also an Iraqi refugee, and they were, in fact, planning to attack a U.S.
Army captain that they'd met over there and had come back home.
So she just simply misspoke but definitely, there was -- it was an act that they're planning --
GORANI: So I didn't see the Army captain plot, but, I mean, I guess what's important is, to say something was a massacre, that is completely untrue.
And so because the press fact checked her and the media fact checked her, there was a bit of rolling back of that, though no apology.
But isn't that troubling, though, to get something so wrong, especially in such a tense situation as the U.S. is in right now? As polarized as the
LORD: I don't think so. I mean, it wasn't intentional. I mean, unlike, say, Hillary Clinton saying that she was under sniper fire when she landed
in Bosnia or wherever it was she landed, which was deliberately not so.
I mean, there was video aplenty of her getting off and being greeted by children. She wasn't running to duck and cover into a car because they
were under sniper fire. And she got --
GORANI: But we're talking about Kellyanne Conway now, not about something Hillary Clinton said several years ago.
LORD: Well, I know, but, I mean, you know, you got to have the same set of standards here. That's all.
GORANI: But you're not applying the same set of standards, though, because you're saying the intent didn't exist for one of them and not the other.
LORD: Well, I don't think she was deliberately making it up. I mean, I think Kellyanne made a mistake.
GORANI: All right. Let's talk about foreign policy. Because here, of course, on CNN International, we cover all these stories. And we've been
very interested in some of the Trump administration's policies that seem to be recentering, even in some cases, closer to the Obama administration.
Nikki Haley at the U.N., the American ambassador to the U.N., saying to Russia, these sanctions are going to stay in place so as long as you don't
withdraw from Crimea, which the country annexed. What's going on there? Because it's quite confusing, the messages coming out of the White House.
[15:40:04] LORD: I really do think that people have -- you know, I understand why they do it, but I think they'd completely misjudged Donald
Trump on Russia. I believe it's not only on Russia, but with every country he deals with, is he's approaching this as, you know, with a clean slate.
And until and unless somebody he's dealing with does something that he feels is unfair or dishonest or what have you, he's going to play it as it
So I really don't see anything unusual about this. He wants to get along with Vladimir Putin, but he said publicly, you know, he's had people in the
past he thought he'd really get along, and it didn't work out. So I don't really think there's anything --
GORANI: Yes. But in this particular case, this came as a surprise. To people who are observers of the pronouncements coming from the Trump
administration on Russia, this came as a surprise.
LORD: Remember, Hala, he's got seriously experienced people around him. I mean, you think of General Mattis, who is now the Secretary of Defense,
these are people with enormously good reputations in the military, the diplomatic community, et cetera. So he listens. He pays attention.
GORANI: And what about Iran? There's a lot of saber rattling, a lot of tough talk. Does the Trump administration want to tear up this Iran deal,
or is this just sort of tough negotiating going forward? What's happening there?
LORD: Well, I think he feels it's terrible, number one. And I would be willing to bet that people like General Mattis are believers in the old
doctrine that weakness is provocative, and that the Iranians have perceived the Obama administration as being weak and therefore, felt free to do these
this, with their ultimate goal of destroying Israel down the road. So I think a red line is being drawn this time and this time, this President
will mean it.
GORANI: All right. And what does that mean, that he'll mean it? And a red line in what sense?
LORD: Well, on a case-by-case basis, that they're not going to be able to do these missile tests, for example, which have only one purpose. I mean,
why do they need --
GORANI: By the way, these, technically, are allowed. These are not missiles that carry or potentially carry a nuclear warhead.
LORD: I understand. I understand. But I think there is a perception out there that they are of not good intent, and that they're going to be called
GORANI: All right. And just one last question, I have to ask you, I heard you on our air, on Anderson Cooper yesterday, responding to criticism of
Donald Trump's --
GORANI: Right, Donald Trump's phone call with one of America's staunchest allies that has fought with America in practically every battle for a
century. Donald Trump, by some accounts, basically hung up on Malcolm Turnbull. What's going on? How can that ever be justified? How do you
defend it as a supporter of Donald Trump?
LORD: My point was, what was left out of the story is that this has been brewing in government circles since November. And two very powerful
members of Congress wrote then Secretary Kerry and the Obama Secretary of Homeland Security, and having discovered this and demanded that the
information be declassified. They were very upset.
And suddenly, this is all about Donald Trump when, in fact, this has been kicking around for a while. They've got no answer. I noticed that just
yesterday, Senator Grassley, who was one of these members of Congress, has now redone this letter, this time for Secretary Tillerson, and says, we
want this information declassified so the American people know what's going on with Australia and its refugees. So --
GORANI: Right. He still, reportedly, basically, abruptly ended the call, possibly hung up on the Prime Minister of Australia.
LORD: You might want to shorthand this as the patent presidency.
GORANI: All right. Jeffrey Lord --
LORD: As in general sense.
GORANI: Yes. Jeffrey Lord, thanks very much, joining us from Pennsylvania. We appreciate it. We'll be right back on CNN.
LORD: Thanks, Hala.
[15:46:01] GORANI: Donald Trump won over many voters with his promises on the economy. Now, he's at odds with some of America's top business leader
like Uber's CEO who dropped out of today's business advisory council with the President. One CEO, who was president, was Tesla boss, Elon Musk, but
part of the reason for that was to express objections to Mr. Trump's travel ban.
Richard Quest is here with more on all of these. Let's talk about this. First of all, let's clarify the Uber CEO situation.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. So he basically said that he joined what he thought was an advisory council, but it was being
interpreted by many as an endorsement of President Trump and his policies. And therefore, because so many Uber drivers are immigrants and there was a
big backlash, he had a chat with the President and decided to leave.
GORANI: And it hurt their bottom line, because many people deleted their Uber app in protest.
QUEST: Yes, that was something slightly different, when they -- yes.
GORANI: Yes, yes. But there were some who also mention of that.
QUEST: Yes, yes. Look --
GORANI: OK. Let's talk about -- where are we here?
QUEST: This is fascinating.
GORANI: I thought that was the Elysee Palace for a moment.
QUEST: No, no. No, actually, that's the meeting that you have. And it's absolutely fascinating because you've obviously got the President, you've
got Steve Schwarzman of the Blackstone Group, you've got Mary Barra of G.M., but you've also got Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan Chase. And you've got
Jack Welch, formerly of G.E.
Now, look, the significance of these men and women is, yes, they disagree with the President, most of them would, on this immigration ban, but they
largely agree with him on the need to deregulate the U.S. economy, to get rid of Dodd-Frank, to lower corporate taxation, and the raft of corporate
policies that the President is intending to introduce.
GORANI: Well, when people from around the world look at the U.S. from the outside looking in, I don't think many would say, corporations have it
really rough in the U.S., and unemployment is high, and it's a disaster the way he's describing it. But yet, CEOs are, you think, on board with some
of those proposals?
QUEST: Oh, there is no question. Because what the U.S. does have is a wealth of regulation.
QUEST: Dodd-Frank, many environmental regulations. There has been an explosion of regulations. I know I'm starting to sound a little more like
the right and the left but --
GORANI: No, but those who support them will say, look, it's good that we have environmental regulations. Our planet is suffering from climate
change. It's good that we have Dodd-Frank.
QUEST: We're talking nuance here.
GORANI: Yes, yes.
QUEST: Fact and degree --
GORANI: No, no. I'm just saying that these regulations exist for a reason.
GORANI: Those who promoted them and support them would say that.
GORANI: There you go.
QUEST: But if you have a pendulum that was like this, they would arguably say it's now gone like that and there's too much regulation. Now, the
risk, of course, is that the pendulum comes too far back the other way.
GORANI: And does this hurt the consumer or does it help the consumer, that corporations have less regulation to worry about?
QUEST: It depends who you ask. Obviously, if you ask those at the Consumer Protection Agency, they say getting rid of the agency would harm
the consumer. If you ask those people sitting in that room, they will say, no, consumers will have more choice at lower prices.
The fascinating part about this is that Donald Trump has brought -- he's no longer Commander-in-Chief. He's Commander-in-Chief executive, bringing
these people into the White House day after day after day.
GORANI: All right. Richard, we'll see you top of the hour from London, with "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS."
QUEST: You will.
GORANI: Appreciate it! A Trump administration official says the President cancelled a visit to the Harley Davidson factory in Milwaukee after the
company decided it wasn't comfortable with planned protests. For a lot of the workers there, the decision was probably a disappointment, as CNN's
Jason Carroll found out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's trying to bring business back to the United States.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When you look at the reason why Donald Trump unexpectedly flipped the state of Wisconsin, look no
further than this bar, right outside off Milwaukee. It caters to a lot of Harley Davidson employees who come from the plant just a few miles away.
The patrons have plenty of praise for the President and find little tolerance for those protesting against him.
[15:49:58] JENNIFER MURRAY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Get over. He's in. He's in. And just stop it! Stop it.
CARROLL (voice-over): Kim Gamroth owns this bar and says her feelings mirror those of many in the community, a community that voted for Trump
over Hillary Clinton by nearly two to one.
Donnie Balusik is a Trump supporter. Balusik says he worked at Harley Davidson for more than 40 years before he retired and was also a small
DONNIE BALUSIK, TRUMP SUPPORTER: It cost me a good business I had, like a bar like this, you know, when certain people move in the area and the White
will move out.
CARROLL (on camera): Do you mean certain people, people who look like me, or --
BALUSIK: Well, the neighborhood changed too much, like 90 percent within two years, and White people won't come in. And I had to sell it.
CARROLL (on camera): I wonder, going forward, does it leave you with an unfavorable view of Black people or Mexican people?
BALUSIK: Yes, it does. I'll be honest with you.
CARROLL (on camera): Yes.
BALUSIK: I'm very prejudiced, and a lot of people know that.
CARROLL (voice-over): Balusik says his point of view is unedited, one that he says few people like him share publicly.
CARROLL (on camera): Do you believe that a lot of other people who feel the way you do --
BALUSIK: They do.
CARROLL (on camera): -- also voted for Trump because they feel the way you do?
BALUSIK: They do. Trust me.
CARROLL (voice-over): Jennifer Murray and Kim Gamroth voted for Trump and are happy with what they've seen so far.
KIM GAMROTH, TRUMP SUPPORTER: He is backing up what he had said. You know, he's finally standing up for America, for the citizens of America,
for small businesses.
MURRAY: For everybody that voted for him, that he said he was going to do. And he's doing it.
GAMROTH: And he's doing it.
CARROLL (voice-over): They also hope their President will keep pressuring U.S. companies to make more products in the United States. Harley
Davidson, for example, assembles bikes in the United States but makes many parts overseas, in countries like Mexico.
Ross Winklbauer, the head of the local steelworkers' union, is encouraged by Trump pulling out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which he says was
not good for U.S. workers. But he's personally troubled by the administration's immigration ban.
ROSS WINKLBAUER, LOCAL DIRECTOR, UNITED STEEL WORKERS: The green lady, the Statue of Liberty. You know, welcome. And I just believe that's the way
it should be.
CARROLL (voice-over): Patrons such as Donnie Balusik are on board with what Trump has done so far and hope he continues to fulfill his promises.
BALUSIK: I hope he gets another four years after this one. It's got to be better than the Democrats.
CARROLL: Jason Carroll, CNN, Milwaukee.
GORANI: You're watching THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. More news ahead.
GORANI: CNN anchors and correspondents have been reflecting on the people who touched their lives last year. Christiane Amanpour has this
installment of "My Hero."
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: David Attenborough is the voice of our planet to umpteenth generations of people
not just in England but around the world who've grown up watching those amazing natural and wildlife programs that he's been producing.
First of all, they're beautiful. They really resonate. They show us all the beauty, the hope, the life, the future of our world, and they are a
perfect antidote to the really dark politics that we're living through right now.
[15:55:03] David Attenborough turned 90 this year, and he shows no signs of slowing down.
You turned 90 this year, and you are still going gangbusters. What is the secret of your passion and your energy still today?
SIR DAVID ATTENBOROUGH, NATURALIST: Well, I think it helps to be interested in what you're doing. And of course, an awful lot of people,
including me, would actually pay for what I'm doing, to be truthful. And so why stop?
AMANPOUR: Why he's a hero to me is because he keeps going, and not just to go and take pretty pictures around the world, but to say something about
our endangered planet, our endangered species of animals and plants, and the human species. And he probably has done more than any single
individual to crystallize for the world why taking climate change seriously is a moral and an existential imperative.
And I interviewed him several times, including at the Paris climate change conference where they finally did come up with this historic legislation to
try to protect our world a little bit, as much as many, many people had a very positive effect on that whole debate. So that's why he's my hero,
because he's not a young man anymore, but he is still fighting the good fight.
GORANI: Don't forget, you can get our interviews and analysis on our Facebook page, facebook.com/halagoranicnn.
I'll see you next week. Have a good weekend if it's your weekend. Thanks for watching. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.
[15:59:56] RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR: Popular organization, look at that, ringing the closing bell. The American Red Cross on Wall Street. The Dow
Jones over 20,000. It's got a good triple-digit gain as the week comes to an end.
Stop ringing the bell and -- good grief.