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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Manhunt Intensifies for Suspect in Indiana Murders of Teen Girls; Investigation Questions; Dementia Defense. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired February 20, 2017 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[20:00:00] JEAN CASAREZ, HLN HOST (voice-over): Breaking news, a mystery man caught on camera walking on the abandoned railroad tracks -- now he is

a suspect in the killings of two teenage girls.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It would have to be someone local.

CASAREZ: The manhunt is on as thousands gather to remember the murdered girls.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody deserves this nobody.

CASAREZ: Their small town...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Delphi is a town where I could walk home from school, and it`d be OK.

CASAREZ: ... rattled by the tragic loss of Abby and Libby.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can feel the pain. Everybody is devastated.

CASAREZ: A toddler hurt while in a baby sitter`s care, but two years later, with still no charges in the case, the family wonders if the fact

that the sitter`s husband, who is law enforcement with that department, is playing a role in the decision.

A judge says a former dentist is incompetent to stand trial on charges of Medicaid fraud, but that ruling means families can`t seek justice on child

abuse accusations. They claim the dentist purposely hurt their kids, in some cases unnecessarily ripping teeth out of their mouths.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez, in for Ashleigh Banfield. Thank you so much for joining us. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.

We are following breaking news in the murders of two teenage girls in Indiana. Police now say the man captured on camera walking on a trail near

Delphi is a suspect in the deaths of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

Now, get a good look at him. Abigail and Liberty were last seen one week ago today. They were going for a hike near the Monon bridge. Liberty

posted this picture on Snapchat of Abigail on a railroad bridge not long after getting dropped off. Well, that post -- that is the last time that

either girl was seen alive.

Liberty`s grandfather says the community`s support has gotten them through the tough time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The outpouring of support from our family, friends, neighbors, local community across the state, the nation and even across

other continents is unlike anything we`ve ever observed. With all the kind words shared with my family, we have yet to find the one statement that

will take his horrible pain away. Thank you again for your thoughts and prayers. May Liberty and Abigail rest in peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And Lindsey Eaton is a reporter for CBS 4 and Fox 59. She joins me now from Delphi, Indiana. Lindsey, what`s the latest?

LINDSEY EATON, CBS4/FOX 59 (via telephone): The latest right now -- we`ve been showing that grainy picture of that man who was captured on camera

near the Delphi historic trails. And for the past week or say, we`ve been saying that police want to talk to this man. He was captured on camera

around the same time as the girls. And now we can say that this man is a suspect. We finally can say that after saying, Hey, police want to talk to

this man, see what he man have heard or seen at that time. And now we are finally able to call that man a suspect.

CASAREZ: You know, what are you hearing, Lindsey, about why, suddenly, this person that they just want to talk with is now a suspect?

EATON: Police aren`t really going into detail. We asked them that earlier today, was there one big break? Was it something they heard or some type

of evidence that now labeled this person, this guy as a suspect? And they are not going into detail on that, just saying at this point, they are now

able to label him as a suspect officially.

CASAREZ: You know, Lindsey, now on a personal note, it was one week today these two young girls, 13 and 14 -- they didn`t have school last Monday, so

they went just for a couple of hours on the walking trail. That was it. Relative dropped them off. They were going to be picked up. Yesterday was

their funerals, right, Lindsey?

EATON: Yes, yesterday was their funerals. Saturday was their visitation. After their visitation, the community set off lanterns in their memory. I

know they were supposed to let those lanterns off, I think, around 8:00 o`clock, and there were so many people that came out to that visitation, I

think they had to delay releasing those lanterns two or three hours later.

I can tell you we drive around town, and we see signs thanking the community for their support. There`s ribbons all over town in memory of

these girls. We were just at a restaurant earlier today that`s trying to raise money to help fund a reward to hopefully catch this killer. I think

the vibes you`re just getting in this small community is they`re ready for some closure. They`re ready to catch this guy.

[20:05:00]CASAREZ: You know, this community of 300, Lindsey, you know they`ve never had a double murder, and a murder was years ago. And I just

can`t imagine the way they are banding together.

Joining us tonight is the sheriff from Carroll County, Sheriff Tobe Leazenby. Thank you so much for joining use. And I know that you are in

the midst of this criminal investigation, but I want everybody to look at this picture of who you are now saying is the main suspect. That`s the

word we`re getting, this person right here that you want anybody who knows who this is, has seen this person to come forward to your office.

And I really want to look at the pictures carefully. What identifying features can you tell our audience that you see on this man that can help

alert someone that they`re seeing him as they go about their daily life?

TOBE LEAZENBY, CARROLL COUNTY SHERIFF: I think, Jean, the main thing is the clothing, if they recognize the clothing of this individual,

particularly those possibly connected with this individual, if they recognize it, just anything outward appearance-wise that may give someone

an idea as to who it is and maybe it`s possibly being a relative.

CASAREZ: Do you see something on the right hand, his right-hand side, where his hand is? Is that his shirt coming down under the jacket, or is

that something like a fanny pack right there?

LEAZENBY: That is something that`s still being evaluated in the investigation, Jean.

CASAREZ: OK. One other question, because I`ve really been looking at these photos -- the photo where his left leg is out -- see that? Do you

see something that looks flat on his upper front thigh -- not that photo, the other photo -- but it looks like a board or something inside? Can you

discern anything at all? Right there, it just looks very strange, his left leg on the left-hand side of your screen right there. Chief? Sheriff?

LEAZENBY: Yes, again, that`s again still being evaluated and being looked at thoroughly. And it`s still part of the investigation.

CASAREZ: So Sheriff, do you know anything about him at all? Anything? Do you know his name?

LEAZENBY: I cannot comment on that because of the ongoing investigation.

CASAREZ: Do you believe he`s still around town? Do you believe he`s in Delphi? Do you believe he`s far away from Delphi at this point?

LEAZENBY: Based on the tips and leads that we`re following into, I really can`t comment either way. We are following up on multiple leads. Yes, it

is possible this individual may still be in our area. But again, we`re still checking into that.

CASAREZ: Do you have any identification of a vehicle at all that you think he was driving that people should be alerted on?

LEAZENBY: We are looking into various, again, tips and leads and reports of vehicles that may have been there. And in fact, we`re still inviting

anyone to come forward that may have seen any vehicles in that area during that time period to share that with us and contact our hotline.

CASAREZ: Now, this photo right here -- this is the bridge, right? Am I correct? This is the Monon High bridge? OK. The photograph of the man

who is the main suspect now -- he`s walking on what is the bridge?

LEAZENBY: Correct.

CASAREZ: And is that close to the entrance? Is that close to where Lindsey (sic) and Liberty and Abigail would have walked as they were

walking toward the trail?

LEAZENBY: They had -- they had been, obviously, on that bridge. So that would be the area, yes.

CASAREZ: What time do you think that picture was taken of him?

LEAZENBY: Honestly don`t know at this stage.

CASAREZ: Then how do you know that he was there around the time that they were there?

LEAZENBY: Again, based on information as part of the ongoing investigation at this stage.

CASAREZ: Now, a relative dropped them off, these two young girls, for a couple of hours to just walk on the trail. Have you spoken to that

relative?

LEAZENBY: Yes.

CASAREZ: So I would think that would be a pivotal witness right there as far as cars in the area, seeing anyone. Did anybody else see this person

on that bridge, or is it just that photograph?

[20:10:06]LEAZENBY: Again, we`re following into the many leads that we have, and you know, without going into any kind of great detail, that`s

something we`re looking into.

CASAREZ: All right. Joining me now, Jonna Spilbor and Danny Cevallos, both great defense attorneys. Danny, you know, they`re holding so much as

part of the investigation. I understand that. They have to. They`ve got a double murderer on the loose, right?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: They do.

CASAREZ: At least one, which is something else I do want to ask the sheriff in a second. But in regard to the relative that dropped them off,

this is an important witness because if that was where the entry was to the trail...

CEVALLOS: It`s definite. It`s one of the knowns in the case. You know the relative who dropped them off, and that person, hopefully, can provide

the where. And even if they don`t know the exact time, remember, our cell phones are constantly pinging towers and here and there, so that may supply

some information about her whereabouts, when they were dropped off.

And you know, there are other things that I know the chief here can`t tell us about, but you can sort of glean some other facts. And probably there

were no other individuals caught on camera in that particular area, and if they were, then they somehow much have been ruled out at this point. There

must be several reasons that we don`t know about why law enforcement is focusing on this individual at this time. I mean, and it is, as you know,

a strategy to not reveal too much information lest the suspect figure out what they`re up to.

CASAREZ: Of course. You know, Jonna, they executed a search warrant Thursday night right before the show started at a home in Delphi. They

were looking at the grass area around the home. They say nothing of evidentiary value came from that. But to search the grass surrounding the

home shows they believe there were things missing from the crime scene, right?

JONNA SPILBOR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Perhaps, or were they searching for a particular footprint that was going to match a footprint near the scene?

Because you touched on something I think is crucial, and that is, how did the picture of this, quote, "suspect" come about? Is there surveillance?

Did somebody take the picture and say, I think that is the guy who did it and send it to the police?

How was it that the police targeted this individual, when you have to expect that a trail like that was going to be very populated or you don`t -

- two teenagers don`t go to a remote, desolate trail, right? It had to be very popular in the area. So other people had to be around. Why was it

this guy, and where did that picture come from?

CASAREZ: You know, Jonna, it`s a great question. Sheriff, we had asked before, how was this picture even gotten? I mean, a surveillance camera, a

game camera, agriculture camera? How did you get that shot?

LEAZENBY: Again, without providing information as it relates to the ongoing investigation, I really can`t comment on that.

CASAREZ: Will you comment on this? It`s very pixilated. You can`t really have definition in that picture. Does that mean it was taken a long way in

the distance?

LEAZENBY: Again, I`m sorry. I can`t comment.

CASAREZ: All right. Over the weekend, when you declared that this man right here is a suspect, you also -- I found very interesting the wordage

that you used, that you believe he participated in the murders of Liberty and Abigail -- participated. That tells me you believe there may be more

than one person.

LEAZENBY: That is something -- an angle that is -- obviously, we`re covering all bases in a serious case like this. So that -- that is a

potential option, but again, it`s part of the ongoing investigation.

CASAREZ: All right. Danny, I`ve got to ask you, participated -- We believe he participated in the murder. You are participating in the panel

discussion tonight.

CEVALLOS: Right. Right. It`s an interesting use of language. It could just be they`re keeping their options open, and I know the sheriff isn`t

going to say one way or the other. They`re keeping their options open, or you`re absolutely right, it could be a deliberate choice of language

meaning that they suspect, based on the facts available to them, that there may be somebody else out there responsible. And they may know more than

they`re telling.

CASAREZ: And you`ve got two victims that were murdered.

All right, we are continuing to follow the latest in the murders of Liberty and Abigail. Just ahead, we`re going to talk to the man who owns the

property where the bodies of the teenagers were found.

Plus, the family of toddler allegedly hurt while in a baby-sitter`s care -- they want justice. They say the woman watching their child hasn`t been

fully investigated because her husband is a police officer with the local department.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:16:58]CASAREZ: Police now say the man in this picture is the prime suspect of the murders of two teenagers in Indiana. The girls` bodies were

found near a creak less than a mile from an abandoned railroad bridge where they`d dropped off to go hiking. The man who owns the property says he

never thought his 40-acre land would ever become a crime scene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD LOGAN, OWNS PROPERTY WHERE BODIES WERE FOUND: Your home being your sanctuary, it was -- I don`t feel that way about it anymore. It`s very

concerning. Something happened here like this in my back yard. It`s just -- I just can`t get my emotions around it. It`s crazy. It`s unreal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Ron Logan joins me live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:20:04]CASAREZ: A manhunt tonight for the man seen in this picture. Police say this is suspect number one in the murders of two teenagers near

Delphi, Indiana. Officers tell us they have received tips from across the country about the girls` murders, but so far, they have been extremely

tight-lipped about the investigation.

Liberty German and Abigail Williams were found last Tuesday near a creek less than a mile away from where they`d been dropped off to go hiking. And

joining me right now is the gentleman that owns the property where Liberty German and Abigail Williams girls were found. Ronald Logan join us by

phone. Thank you so much, sir, and I`m so sorry that you`ve been thrust into this.

LOGAN (via telephone): I am, too. It`s been very traumatic.

CASAREZ: Well, I`m sure it has. I`m sure it has because I heard you say, you know, this was your land. You had nothing to do with this, of course,

but this was your land. This was -- you know, this was your property.

Can I ask you -- it was a week ago today that the family members called and said, They`re missing, we can`t find them, they`re not there to pick them

up. Did you hear about these two girls being missing? Because I believe a week ago tonight, the searches began, right?

LOGAN: Yes, that`s true. I did not find out about it until after about 6:30 PM in the afternoon. People stopped here and asked for permission to

go back on my property and said two girls were missing, and that`s the first I heard about it. It`s been a -- it`s been a -- OK.

CASAREZ: No, go ahead. What has the last week been like?

LOGAN: Well, it`s -- it`s been very -- really difficult to understand what all has been going on here. The pain and agony caused by the families and

the -- to the families and the community is just beyond belief. But to have all this pain and agony happen in my -- basically, my back yard, is

just -- I mean, it`s just -- it`s beginning to come home now because it`s really been difficult to understand that two little girls lost their life

in my back yard (INAUDIBLE) It`s just beyond belief.

CASAREZ: So how did you find out that their bodies were on your property?

LOGAN: It was shortly after they were found. I had been in town, in Delphi, and was coming home, and I saw the -- when I went to town, they

hadn`t been found yet. When I came home, they had been, and it was -- and then I found out that they were not -- that they were not alive. It was

just -- it was horrible. I mean, I don`t know how you -- because (INAUDIBLE) all end well. And obviously, that`s not true.

CASAREZ: So did you go -- did you go out -- since this was your property, you find out that they are there. Did you go out to the crime scene

yourself?

LOGAN: The crime scene has been closed off. It was not -- my property was not released back to me until late Wednesday. I went to the crime scene

Thursday morning to try to get a feeling of it. And it`s still difficult to just...

LOGAN: What did you see when you went out there?

CASAREZ: There was not much to see, other than the crime scene tape around the area. The area was still very pristine. You couldn`t actually tell

that there was any such a violent action.

CASAREZ: You didn`t see any blood? You didn`t see a gruesome scene?

LOGAN: No, nothing. The area was very, very pristine. There was nothing there to see. I mean, really...

CASAREZ: Was there one crime scene and one location from what you could tell, or two separate crime scenes because there were two victims?

LOGAN: Just one. One scene. And apparently, I assume that both were found in this area because that`s -- what I`m pointing at to now is all

that -- is all that was there.

CASAREZ: Do you recognize the person in the photograph that law enforcement is saying is the main suspect at this point? Do you recognize

this person?

LOGAN: No, I do not. If I had any idea who it was, I would have certainly said so before now. I have no idea.

CASAREZ: What are you hearing? Does anybody recognize this person?

LOGAN: I have not heard anyone say they recognize him. It`s a -- it`s a total blank right now.

[20:25:00]CASAREZ: Are people in the community scared that a double murderer is out there somewhere?

LOGAN: Yes. It is a big concern. I used to walk through my woods all the time, daytime, nighttime. Now I`m not sure if that`s a good idea now. My

son and grandson come up here and play in that woods. Does that mean we can`t do that now? Or what should we do? It`s just a...

CASAREZ: Well, Mr. Logan, we thank you for coming on the show tonight, and we are doing our part as journalists to help law enforcement so the public

can recognize who this person is, that at least they can talk to this person they are calling this suspect. Thank you very much.

LOGAN: Thank you.

CASAREZ: The parents of a toddler say she was severely hurt while allegedly in a baby sitter`s care. Despite bleeding on the brain and

finger-like bruises on his (sic) body, there have been no charges. Why the mother and father say the baby sitter could be getting preferential

treatment.

Plus, a judge rules a dentist is incompetent to stand trial on criminal fraud charges because of dementia. But some parents say that ruling could

help keep them from getting justice in an abuse case involving that very same doctor.

[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: Nearly two years after the parents of a toddler say he was hurt while allegedly in a babysitter`s care, they are demanding justice. Peyton

Valiente was just 17 months old when the babysitter called them and told them that he was having a hard time waking up and he thrown up earlier.

When the mother and father arrived, Peyton was unresponsive.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

REY VALIENTE, FATHER OF PEYTON VALIENTE: I was shaking. I couldn`t think. I couldn`t move. As soon as I got there, I was speechless. I keep telling

him, Peyton, wake up, wake up son. Don`t leave. He wouldn`t respond.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: They took him to the hospital and the doctors told the Valientes that Peyton had suffered a dangerous buildup of blood on the brain,

bleeding in his retinas, as well as bruises like hand prints on his back. A panel of child abuse analyst cleared the parents of any wrongdoing.

However, a police investigation didn`t pinpoint any one suspect of the abuse.

But the Valientes are demanding the investigation be reopen. They say the babysitter was cleared because her husband is a police officer with the

actual department that was investigating. Honolulu Police is conducting an internal investigation into how their department handled the case.

John Hill is the investigation editor for civilbeat.org. He joins me from Honolulu, Hawaii. Thank you so much. Now, this investigation was closed but

your site just kept having stories on this. Why did you believe that there was something wrong with what the facts appeared to be in this case?

JOHN HILL, INVESTIGATIONS EDITOR AT HONOLULU CIVIL BEAT: Well, I had seen the police report from the Honolulu Police Department and saw that the --

the detectives assigned to the case took three or four months to interview the three people who were at the day care at the time that Peyton was

injured. And experts I consulted say in cases like this, you ought to talk to the people who had access to the child right way, preferably within 24

hours.

CASAREZ: Who had access to the child at this at-home day care? Who had access to the little baby?

HILL: That`s correct.

CASAREZ: Who?

HILL: The babysitter and -- the babysitter and the -- and her two teenage children who at that time were 18 and 16.

CASAREZ: Okay. All right. Go ahead.

HILL: And so the experts that I consulted said that really all of these people should have been quizzed right away about what happened. And in

fact, it took several months for them to be interviewed by Honolulu`s child abuse detail. In addition, there were other children present who were old

enough to be verbal.

And experts say that even very young children can provide valuable information and there is no evidence in the police report that they were

ever interviewed nor was there evidence in the police report that the detectives investigated the scene where the injury occurred. So all of

these things are not in keeping with best practices in this kind of case.

CASAREZ: So John, what you`re telling me is that -- you`re telling me that based on the reports you have read that investigators did not go to the at-

home day care itself? They never went to the actual location?

HILL: There is no mention in the police report that they did. And we published the report, you know, our report has said that and nobody has

contradicted it.

CASAREZ: John, you`re also saying that based on all of the documents you read that they never spoke to the 9-year-old, maybe the 6-year-old too

[20:35:00] or even their parents of what they went home and told their mom or dad what they had just seen?

HILL: That is correct. There is nothing in the police report to indicate that ever happened.

CASAREZ: All right. Joining me now is Chelsea Valiente. She is Peyton`s mother. She joins me from Honolulu. Thank you very much. I don`t think we

can imagine what you and your husband -- we just saw your husband on camera. What you both have gone through. Had you ever taken your little boy

to this at-home day care before or was it the first time?

CHELSEA VALIENTE, MOTHER OF PEYTON VALIENTE: Actually, this was the third day of unchilding (ph) him at a babysitter. So, yeah, this incident

happened exactly on the third day.

CASAREZ: About on the third day. So you get a phone call from the babysitter herself. What did she tell you and what was her demeanor as she

called you?

VALIENTE: She was a little frantic at the time. She did mention that, you know, Peyton threw up twice after drinking some milk. And then he just

became unresponsive and she was having difficulty waking him up.

CASAREZ: So when you got to the home and you saw him, what was he like?

VALIENTE: Well, actually, what happened was at -- you know, after she had called me, I asked her about his breathing and she said he was breathing

slowly and shallow. So I immediately told her to hang up the phone right now and call 911. I rushed over there and I saw Peyton lying on the floor

unresponsive and my heart dropped at that second.

CASAREZ: Oh, I can imagine. Now, here is something that I think is a pivotal fact. You are being interviewed by a detective with the police

department, and he gets a phone call?

VALIENTE: Correct.

CASAREZ: He gets a phone call in the middle of interviewing you. Who was it and what did you hear?

VALIENTE: Well, our interview was being recorded. Midway through that interview, the babysitter had called the detective and the reason why I

know this is because he did mention that and he took this call in front of me, which I thought was very inappropriate and unprofessional.

And then her husband, who is also a Honolulu police officer, came on the phone and how I know that as well is because he reassured him, you know, to

tell his wife that she had nothing to worry about and that questioning was protocol. This was all done in front of me.

CASAREZ: We have got a short clip we want to show our viewers right now from the Honolulu police commissioner, Max Sword. Listen to this.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

MAX SWORD, HONOLULU, HAWAII POLICE COMMISSIONER: We have requested the chief to take another look at it and do an audit and he had said he will do

that. And I`ve asked him to report to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And we also have something from the Department of Human Services. We want to show this to everybody. It said, quote, the child was not

injured while in the care of the parents and the most likely perpetrator was the child`s babysitter. Okay. Danny, let`s look at this. This reminds

me of the Drew Peterson case. You know, Drew Peterson, police officer, Bolingbrook, Illinois. His wife found dead in the dry bathtub.

CEVALLOS: Yeah, this is problematic. Here`s why. It`s not always the impropriety itself. It`s the appearance of impropriety, right? I mean, the

fact that the detectives were taking a call in the presence of the child`s mother, I mean, imagine what other communications there may have been when

they weren`t in her presence, right?

And this is a real problem for police investigating because it`s not like they can say we always believe this was an accident, this was an accident

from day one. Because number one, DHS almost immediately takes the child away from the parents until they can investigate two weeks later.

So it`s not as if this case was treated like a complete accident from the beginning. At least some portion of the government believed something might

be up, whereas, meanwhile, the police do virtually nothing in their investigation.

CASAREZ: Good point. That`s a really good point. Jonna, here is some more Facts. You know, we want the facts, right? The facts are that the

babysitter and the two teenage children were not interviewed separately, 9- year-old and 6-year-old not even questioned or their parents. You know, maybe they would remember something.

SPILBOR: Right.

CASAREZ: . as time goes on. But now it`s two years.

SPILBOR: I know. And the problem in this case is going to be -- it`s a whole different ball of wax. If you conduct an investigation at the time of

the incident and the D.A. takes a look at the file and says, no, we think it was an accident and then they put it away.

It`s a whole other ball game when the investigation really doesn`t happen. There is so may people that they didn`t talk to. There is so much

investigation that they didn`t do that how do you now recreate it two years later?

[20:40:00] Memories don`t get better with time, they get worse. And the problem with this case, one of the biggest problems is, these children are

nonverbal, right? This child is never gonna be able to tell you what happened because he was 17 months old at the time that it did. And the

other children, two years later, what do they remember and more importantly, what have they forgotten.

CASAREZ: And Chelsea, the mother of this beautiful little boy who is joining us from Honululu, your little boy is now 3 years old, but he`s not

necessarily out of the woods yet, right, medically speaking?

VALIENTE: Correct.

CASAREZ: So he believes that they -- he could have seizures in the future, I think. All right, we will keep up on this.

VALIENTE: Yes.

CASAREZ: Best of luck to you and that investigation. It may just be reopened. A judge`s ruling could help a dentist accused of abusing his

underage patients avoid future lawsuits. Why some of the parents of those children say that dementia diagnosis is preventing them from getting

justice?

[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: For many people, going to the dentist is something to dread, but not necessarily to fear. But for more than 100 families in Florida, they

say a dentist`s office was a place where their children suffered abuse at the hands of Dr. Howard Schneider. He shut down his practice in 2015 after

the accusation surfaced. Among the parents` claims, unnecessarily pulling teeth and injuring children by propping their mouths open too wide, causing

bleeding.

To top it off, prosecutors say Schneider billed the patients for procedures they didn`t need and billed Medicaid for services on low-income patients he

never performed. And it was during that criminal case where medical experts found that the dentist was suffering from dementia and a judge has ruled he

is incompetent to stand trial.

And now many of the patients who say their children were harmed by Dr. Schneider may not get the justice they demand. Stacey Newman is a Primetime

producer who has been working on this all day. You are an expert on this case. First of all, I just want you to tell people what some of the

accusations are of what this dentist did to their children, their little girls, their little boys.

STACEY NEWMAN, PRIMETIME JUTICE PRODUCER: Well, Jean, as you can see this heartbreaking and actually gut-wrenching videos of these kids strapped

down. They are screaming. They are in pain. They are bleeding. We have these horrible pictures of these kids` mouths swollen with blood.

And the parents are calling this a house of horrors and saying that their kids were tortured, that this dentist got off on torturing these little

kids, and the parents did not give consent, Jean, to many of these procedures that were done. And that is the point where this case just blew

wide open.

CASAREZ: Right. Joining us tonight is John Phillips. He is the attorney for alleged victims and victims because their cases have settled of Dr.

Schneider. Thank you for joining us. First of all, you represent well over 100 victims and alleged victims. And we`re talking -- this is the civil

case we`re talking about, am I correct? And I think all have settled but 27 of them. Are you concerned.

JOHN PHILLIPS, ATTORNEY FOR DR. SCHNEIDER`S VICTIMS: 100.

CASAREZ: Go ahead.

PHILLIPS: 104 have settled, 27 are still open. And to anticipate your case, we`re very concerned about a lot of this.

CASAREZ: Okay. Are you -- the 27, are you concerned that those families will not be able to settle?

PHILLIPS: We`re going to go after the practice as well so to the extent the practice basically employed someone with dementia. We don`t know when this

dementia allegedly started. Clearly there is examples of him doing x-rays three and four times and doing the wrong teeth and a child going in for one

tooth and coming out with eight teeth missing.

CASAREZ: I would think it would be your case to show an intent there, an intent to do that so he can bill Medicaid because the criminal case is

Medicaid fraud. Here is what I want to know. Is it true that he took out seven teeth from one young person when he was only supposed to take out one

tooth?

PHILLIPS: Not just one, Jean, several. That happened several times where there was one tooth,

[20:50:00] state that there was informed consent to remove or work on, and he take out six, seven, eight, and billed taxpayers through Medicaid for

all of them.

CASAREZ: Here is what I don`t get. This happened between 2013 and 2015. How did he still have his license to practice dentistry?

PHILLIPS: He was one of the few Medicaid dentists and in fact, he was the only one to perform these procedures on special needs children. And so the

state almost adopted him as they go to expert and complaints were generally ignored. Bear in mind, there are victims of 10, 20 years ago, even as much

as 30 years ago who say the same thing. He just always got the benefit of the doubt.

CASAREZ: So complaints were ignored by who?

PHILLIPS: By the dental board. To some extent the police were called. There is all sorts of police call outs, I think 30 within the last five years,

where things would get escalated. A lot of the time, he would prohibit families from going back and these children were, either special needs or

so young, they couldn`t communicate.

CASAREZ: So there is a criminal case that now has been stayed because he`s incompetent to stand trial, and that`s based on criminal fraud, Medicaid as

we talked about, putting things down he didn`t do or doing things he didn`t have to do to be able to bill Medicaid. What about a criminal abuse claim?

I mean, why hasn`t there been a criminal investigation that has resulted in criminal charges? Is there another side to the story I`m not seeing?

PHILLIPS: Abuse is an intent act. The Medicaid fraud, they basically were doing a round about. You know, they were using the abuse and using the

unnecessary procedures to go -- according to the Medicaid fraud, statutes to essentially charge him with something they didn`t have to prove the

standard of abuse. And so either way now with the finding of the incompetency, it kind of doesn`t matter.

The criminal cases are pending with him, with the dementia diagnosis based upon the findings of three experts, and so we are all kind of sitting here.

Dementia doesn`t cure itself, so we`re all kind of sitting here wondering if he`s ever gonna stand trial or face the criminal justice or even or

civil justice.

CASAREZ: All right. Joining us tonight is Dr. Sam Saleh. He is a cosmetic dentist. He joins me from Los Angeles. What`s your take on all of this?

SAM SALEH, COSMETIC DENTIST FROM LOS ANGELES: Well, it`s obviously very upsetting to hear what`s going on on this particular doctor`s care.

Clearly, a lot of things were done that shouldn`t have been done. I think both as a health care professional myself and also a father, there is a lot

of things that we can learn from what`s happened here.

As a health care professional, obviously the care of our patients comes first and it`s the most paramount importance for any physician. So clearly

the allegations are totally uncalled for and there is no justification for what happened. But I think also, as parents, we need to be more aware, more

educated, and ask more questions. I don`t think that one some just look at a doctor in a white coat and immediately assume that everything is gonna be

taken care of.

CASAREZ: Dr. Saleh, I think you`re right because they sure weren`t protected by the system. Jonna, what I got to ask you, this happened for

two years. And the system, I mean, is this politics in play that the dentistry board didn`t sort of see it, and the police sort of came in but

that was it?

SPILBOR: I`m glad you asked that because when the attorney was talking, I said to myself, I`m mad at the state. Why can`t we go after the state for

some liability? When you have a dentist that you basically adopt as the go- to for people on public assistance and nobody checks in and all of the complaints to the dental board go unanswered, that to me, makes no sense.

I know in this case, I also agree with the attorney that the criminal charges probably pale in comparison to the civil case because that`s where

the victims are going to get, monetary relief, not so much in the criminal court. And they`ll never see a criminal trial now because dementia doesn`t

get better.

CASAREZ: Danny, I hate to say this. I have to wonder if he has dementia.

CEVALLOS: Well, it`s good defensive lawyering to at least try to get that dementia. A court apparently believed it. And the problem for the

plaintiff`s attorney and I would be interested to know, the problem for the plaintiffs` attorney now might be the insurance adjusters. Whoever is

writing the checks for all those other settlements that have happened.

Will they view this declaration of incompetency as sort of an increase in their bargaining position and say, maybe we won`t settle as much with these

remaining cases, maybe we`ll hold out and wait and see what happens with the criminal case.

CASAREZ: John Phillips, are you concerned about that? And why didn`t you bring this as a class action?

PHILLIPS: We couldn`t bring it as a class action because the nature and number of the procedures were very different.

[20:55:00] And Florida law basically prohibited it. As for the other question, it is a concern, but the other side of the coin is the business

enterprise, the ink that`s at fault here, you know, certainly they kept Dr. Schneider employed. He was self-employed, but they kept him employed

despite notice that -- that he was doing these acts.

And you know, we`re framing this as account of negligence plus, gross negligence. They should have gotten rid of him sooner. It`s a real mess.

And, you know, our hearts go out to these parents. They don`t understand.

CASAREZ: You`ve got victims here. You`ve got victims, alleged victims, and good luck to you. Thank you so much for watching tonight. I`m Jean Casarez.

We`re going to see you back here tomorrow night at 8:00 for PRIMETIME JUSTICE. Up next, "HOW IT REALLY HAPPENED WITH HILL HARPER." The Anna

Nicole Smith story. Goodnight everybody.

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