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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Indiana Police Release Audio Snippet in Murder Investigation; Fatal Feud; Lewd Act?. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 22, 2017 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[20:00:00] JEAN CASAREZ, HLN HOST (voice-over): We are following breaking news. Police hope new audio can help them solve the murders of two Indiana
teens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
CASAREZ: Did you catch that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
CASAREZ: That snippet of audio, officers say, is from one of the girls` cell phones.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Down the hill." There`s enough there that somebody could recognize this person`s voice.
CASAREZ: Just three words they hope can lead them to the prime suspect, the killer of Abby and Libby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you hear this today...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and you think, My God, that sounds like -- fill in the blank -- call us.
CASAREZ: The moments after a deadly shooting caught on video.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The victim was lying on the ground while others tried to help her.
CASAREZ: A Texas man admitting he shot his neighbor, but claims it wasn`t in cold blood. Hector Campos says the woman was armed -- with a dog and a
roll of tape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This has been an ongoing disagreement.
CASAREZ: He`s kept silent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) I`d rather not say anything.
CASAREZ: Until now.
DR. PHIL, HOST: What would you do differently?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know if I`d do anything differently.
CASAREZ: Funny how people who don`t seem to want to talk open up to Dr. Phil.
A 26-year-old in big trouble for giving a lap dance at a nursing home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can show you new things.
CASAREZ: Thing is, the victim is 100 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on!
CASAREZ: Why police threw the book at the former worker who even flashed the resident.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I won`t tell, if you won`t.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez in for Ashleigh Banfield. Thank you so much for joining us. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
We do have breaking news tonight in the murders of two teenagers in Indiana. Liberty German and Abigail Williams went missing last week after
going hiking. Their bodies were found the next day. And for the past week, we have been looking at this image, an image of a man officers call
the prime suspect in the case.
And new tonight, we are hearing for the very first time three words muttered by an unknown man in the vicinity of those two girls on that day.
It`s video captured on Libby`s phone, and police say it was just moments before the girls were killed.
Now, we`re going to play this for you multiple times this hour so you can hear it. Take a listen now.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Police are hoping that those three words, "down the hill," will lead them to their killer. But they do say they need everyone`s help from
coast to coast to listen and decide if you recognize that person`s voice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUGLAS CARTER, INDIANA STATE POLICE SUPERINTENDENT: Why Libby? Why Abby? Why Delphi? Why Carroll County? Why the region? Why the state? Why even
in the nation? I say that because this is classic example and a clear example that evil lives amongst us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Lindsey Eaton is a reporter for CBS 4, Fox 59. She joins us now from Delphi, Indiana. Lindsey, we learned today many things we haven`t
learned before. But we also learned that this has gotten to the desk of the FBI director, Jim Comey. What else did we learn today at this press
conference?
LINDSEY EATON, CBS 4/FOX 59 (via telephone): We learned that the picture that we`ve been showing over and over of that main suspect, that man -- we
learned that that picture came from Libby`s cell phone, along with that recording that you guys have been playing and that we`ve been playing over
and over. We know it`s three words "down the hill." But we learned that that audio snippet, as well as that picture -- both big clues, both of them
came from Libby`s phone, which is huge in this investigation.
CASAREZ: It sure is. All the visuals that you see and now this audio came from Liberty`s phone.
And joining us is Sergeant Tony Slocum. He is with the Indiana State Police. First of all, I want to ask you, the thing that just was going
through my mind right now is at this press conference today, you called Liberty, one of these two victims -- you called her a hero.
[20:05:06]SGT. TONY SLOCUM, INDIANA STATE POLICE (via telephone): I believe Liberty is a hero. To have enough wherewithal at a time when she
was probably really afraid, to actually record or hit record on the video function of her phone and actually provide us evidence that we are using
now to try to solve her murder -- that young lady is a hero, to have the presence to be able to do that. Every investigator that I`ve talked to
that`s connected to this case believes that she is a hero, and she inspires us to continue forward as we do our investigation.
CASAREZ: Now, we want to listen again to this audio. We want everyone to listen to this because everyone from the FBI to local to state police, they
are appealing to your help tonight. Do you recognize this voice? Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Now, of course, that is a repetition of what we believe is the one time it was on her phone.
Sergeant, you actually have the video that accompanies that, is that not correct, but you`re only releasing audio at this point?
SLOCUM: Right. We`re holding the rest of our evidence close to the vest. Again, we don`t want to put that out, the information, out into the public
spectrum where it would jeopardize our case at this time. But we do have further evidence.
Also, as you indicated, not only the voice that you hear, but also the photograph that we released last week -- both came from Liberty German`s
phone. And we`re imploring, as you indicated, anyone in the public who hears that voice or sees that photograph and thinks that might be so-and-
so, that sounds like so-and-so, and they don`t have an excuse or an alibi or something weird was happening on Monday of last week -- we want your
information. And we have multiple avenues for that with the tip line and the encounter (ph) e-mail. And we also have a reward that we`re offering
for any information that leads to an arrest in this case.
CASAREZ: That`s right. And earlier today, it was $41,000. Now, Sergeant, can you definitively say that the voice we`re hearing on the audio
recording is of the man in the photograph? Or could it be two people?
SLOCUM: Right. You`re exactly right. We`re trying to determine if we have one suspect or multiple suspects. At this time, we`re not linking
that photograph with that voice. So that voice could possibly be of another suspect, and at this time, we`re investigating that. So we are not
quite sure if we have one person and/or multiple people that we are looking for in the murder of Liberty German and Abigail Williams.
CASAREZ: Now, as we know, the audio that we have just played -- and we will play again -- it says "down the hill." We`ve had a producer at that
scene who has told us that it is very hilly and the hills are off the beaten track. By these three words, "down the hill," do you believe that
the alleged perpetrator knew the area and knew where he wanted these girls to go? Was he directing them?
SLOCUM: Well, it sounds like he was directing them. But to answer your first question, as far as him knowing the area, we`re not sure, but that
obviously is one possibility in this case that we`re looking at. Again, we spoke last night about how close to the Hoosier heartland our State Road 25
interstate type system that this trail is close to. We`re still expanding our search, and not just to encompass the Carroll County, Delphi area, but
also surrounding areas. So we do not know if he knew the area.
CASAREZ: All right. Now, Sergeant, your superior spoke today, Superintendent Douglas Carter of the Indiana State Police, the
superintendent Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUGLAS CARTER, INDIANA STATE POLICE SUPERINTENDENT: Words tend to escape during these periods of times, and I`ve only had a couple of other
situations in my lifetime when I`m able to stand before you and say that.
Why Libby? Why Abby? Why Delphi? Why Carroll County? Why the region? Why the state? Why even in the nation? I say that because this is a
classic example and a clear example that evil lives amongst us.
To the family and the community, the region, the state, as leader of the Indiana State Police, I say I am so very sorry.
[20:10:08]Resources -- it`s unlikely any of you will ever see nor will we ever see or experience again the level of resources that are attached to
this investigation.
To the media, my gosh, all I can say is to give you my sincere thanks. See, this isn`t like TV. There`s a perception that this can be solved very
quickly, anything that we do can be solved quickly, but this is a testament that it can`t and we need you. We needed you since last week, we need you
today, and we need you tomorrow. And likely, we`ll need the media all across this nation. So for a simple guy like me to you, I say thank you.
To the people dressed funny like me and those who represent the law enforcement profession, please understand we`re human beings just like you.
I stand anywhere in the nation with people standing behind me. And I would suggest to you that every time something like this happens, a little piece
of us dies, as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Sergeant, we see the emotion that was in all of you at that press conference today. But I think one of the most sobering things that was
said was, Who will be next? Sergeant, can you hear me?
SLOCUM: Yes, I can hear you. That was a sobering statement because, unfortunately, as Superintendent Carter indicated, evil does live amongst
us. But I have a firm belief, and as most people, especially the investigators in this case, that there is more good than evil. And the
great works that I`ve seen in the last week of investigators working tirelessly to bring the murders of Liberty Germany -- or excuse me, Liberty
German and Abigail Williams to justice is awe-inspiring. And they believe that there`s more good than evil in our society. And we`re all...
CASAREZ: And I do understand that -- I do understand that there are 20 FBI working around the clock right now. But the fact is, someone or people out
there murdered two young girls and they could do it again. They`ve got to be caught.
We`re going to have more on this in a minute, more news in the murder of two Indiana teenage girls, police releasing audio from Liberty German`s
phone they hope can lead them to a killer. The FBI, local and state police -- they all need your help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone knows who this individual is. Is it a family member? Is it a neighbor? Even with technology, we need human
intelligence. In other words, we need you. And if you`re watching, we`ll find you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:15:18]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As poor as this picture is, somebody knows. And if you`re watching, we`ll find you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Police in Indiana talking about this picture of their prime suspect in the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams. Now they
are hoping by releasing this short burst of audio from Libby`s phone that someone will recognize the voice and help them catch the killer.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CASAREZ: What that chilling audio could reveal about the girls` murders next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Evil lives amongst us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s an all-out manhunt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the person that at least participated in the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parents should never, ever have to bury their children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The picture that is pretty boring (ph) was taken in this area here. It was cropped from a larger picture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The audio is also from Liberty`s phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why Libby? Why Abby? If you`re watching, we`ll find you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And there is breaking news tonight in the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams. Today, police released for the very first
time audio that they say Libby recorded just moments before the girls were killed. It is just three words, but take a listen. We`re going to play it
for you multiple times.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down the hill.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CASAREZ: "Down the hill." And we did learn today that that audio right there was gotten from Libby German`s phone, that she had recorded this man,
whoever he is, audio and video. Police are only releasing the audio right now and that still picture that you see of who they call the prime suspect,
who may or may not be that voice. Maybe one or two people involved. That also we learned today definitively was from Libby`s phone, Libby who they
are calling a hero tonight.
[20:00:04]And with us, Sergeant Tony Slocum from the Indiana State Police is joining us once again. I know there is a tip line. We will show that
for everyone, Sergeant, and you are asking anyone who knows -- recognizes someone in that picture or recognizes that voice. Now, you did say at the
press conference today that you have more video and more audio than you`re releasing. How many minutes in total would you say that you have?
SLOCUM: Well, that`s information that`s germane to our investigation at this time, so we`re not going to be able to release that into the public
spectrum at this time.
CASAREZ: I understand. Is it -- is it continuous? Is it stop and start? Could you obviously tell there was an issue?
SLOCUM: Well, obviously, there`s the issue if Liberty turned on the video portion of her phone, and we can tell that maybe there was a problem in
that video. But as far as specific and more detail, that`s something we cannot get into at this moment in our investigation.
CASAREZ: Now, I know that you had also gone into today about whether this was someone that they were intending to meet or a stranger crime or someone
that knew the girls. But it appeared as though you were leaning upon a chance encounter was unlikely, but that they knew -- that maybe he knew
that those girls would be there.
SLOCUM: Well, we`re not quite sure if it was a chance encounter or -- evidence indicates at this time that we don`t have any leading us to they
were meeting. We believe it was two teenage girls going out on a nice day and enjoying a beautiful trail.
But we`re still trying to verify all our facts. We`re almost nine days into our investigation, which seems like a very long time, but in the
scheme of things, it`s pretty short, and we`re still trying to analyze the information and determine what actually occurred in their murders.
CASAREZ: Seems like a very difficult investigation.
Joining me now, Misty Marris and Danny Cevallos. Misty, where do they go from here? Because they don`t know the person. They can`t find this
person. The snip of audio is a little difficult to discern, really.
MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, but you know what? The power of technology has changed police investigations. There is going to be someone
out there who recognizes that voice, who thinks, Hey, that person in the photo could be someone I know. And it`s shows like these that are going to
help bring this murderer to justice.
CASAREZ: You know, and let`s listen right now to the FBI for the state of Indiana. He today spoke, And listen to what he wants people to be alerted
toward. It`s very important.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the members of the community, when I met with our behavior analysis unit -- and their expertise and their experience -- it is
oftentimes even unwitting that a member of the community may have information that is germane to this investigation.
And I`d like the community to go back nine days and go back to the afternoon of February 13th, Monday, February 13th, and just think if you
had an interaction with an individual who inexplicably canceled an appointment that you had had together or an individual called into work
sick and canceled out (ph) an important appointment or a social engagement, and at the time gave what would have been a plausible explanation -- My
cell phone broke or I had flat tire on my car -- but in retrospect, that excuse no longer holds water.
That may be important. Likely so, are behavioral indicators that this individual may have exhibited since the afternoon of May (sic) 13th. Did
this individual travel unexpectedly? Did they change their appearance? Did they shave their beard, cut their hair, cut their hair, changed the
color of their hair? The superintendent mentioned the clothes that this individual was wearing in the photo. Did they change the way they dress?
Did their behavior change? Did their sleep pattern is different now? Did they start abusing drugs or alcohol, whereas they would not have? Have
they been anxious, nervous, irritable? Have they followed this case and what the media is putting out with a sense that is not normal? Have they
had ongoing discussions regarding their whereabouts on that afternoon or thereafter?
Please, if you have that information, call that in to the tip line.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: ... ask you, have you gotten tips today? Your press conference was this morning. Are you getting more people that say they may know
something?
[20:25:00]SLOCUM: Speaking with the supervisor of our call center, she said moments after the release of the audio that all 10 of the lines that
we have coming in our command center lit up, and they continue to light up throughout the day. So people are providing us with information, and that
is much appreciated.
CASAREZ: All right. Well, we thank you for coming on. We will stay on this case. And once again, we want everybody to know it is not just
confined to Indiana at this point. Delphi is close to a highway, and they believe this person or persons could be anywhere in this country.
A Texas man now charged with shooting his female neighbor says he felt threatened by the woman, her dog and a roll of tape. Today, Hector Campos
broke his silence. What he told Dr. Phil he would do differently if he were in the situation again. And this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Face that direction for me with your full body. We`re not doing yoga. I don`t know what you`re doing. Put your hands down. OK,
I did not ask you to do a somersault. And if you continue to do this, I`m going to...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: An accused drunk driver doesn`t seem to be able to walk a straight line, but she sure can do those cartwheels!
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: A man in Texas who admits shooting and killing his neighbor now says it was self-defense. He claimed she was armed with her dog and a roll
of tape. You probably remember this video, neighbors hovering over Ana Weed just moments after she was shot, one of them aiming their gun at Hector
Campos, the accused shooter.
Campos claims he felt threatened by her dog that had come into his yard and the roll of tape that she was holding. Weed`s family says the shooting was
an act of revenge because she helped Campos` wife leave him. Campos today told Dr. Phil he wouldn`t do anything differently.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
PHIL MCGRAW, AUTHOR, PSYCHOLOGIST, TELEVISION SHOW HOST: So this 53-year- old grandmother shows you some tape in her hand and you pull out a 9-mm (inaudible) as you say, and she`s dead. It seems to me a really poor
judgment.
HECTOR CAMPOS, CHARGED WITH MURDER OF ANA WEED: She took the risk of grabbing an item (inaudible) trying to go after my throat. I`ve gone out of
my way to be amicable with everybody. But at some point, I have to -- I have to fight for my family. My daughter is paying the ultimate price right
now.
MCGRAW: So this was retaliation?
CAMPOS: No.
MCGRAW: You just said you got to protect your family. Your family is thousand miles away in Mexico.
CAMPOS: Correct.
MCGRAW: You`re not standing in the gap with family (ph).
CAMPOS: No, I`m not explaining myself very well. I don`t do this all the time.
MCGRAW: What would you do differently?
CAMPOS: I don`t know if I`d do anything differently.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Jeffrey Boney is an associate editor for the "Houston Forward Times." He joins us from Houston tonight. Jeffrey, this man is claiming
self-defense. So, how does he feel in fear for his life with a dog and some tape?
JEFFREY BONEY, ASSOCIATE EDITOR FOR THE HOUSTON FORWARD TIMES: Well, you know, it`s quite interesting. This, according to neighbors, Jean, has been
escalating for some time. There`s been animosity in the community concerning both Mr. Campos and Ms. Ana Weed. And what we find out is that
this is what he says according to what he says in court that he was intimidated by her, by having some tape in her hand, a roll of tape, and
her pet schnauzer had ran into the yard a little bit earlier.
CASAREZ: Okay, Jeffrey, let me stop you there. That`s a small, little dog. Isn`t it true that the dog had cancer? Not only it is a small dog but has
cancer? And isn`t it true that Ana had just had neck surgery and she had a neck brace on?
BONEY: Yeah, the dog had been recovering from an ailment. But Ana Weed had recently undergone surgery and she was recovering from that surgery by
wearing a medical device around her neck. And according to her husband, his wife was just squatting down holding the dog, and that Campos just point
blank shot her in the chest with intent to kill with a 9 millimeter. The bullet went right through the medical device she was wearing, hitting her
in the heart, and she died on the scene.
CASAREZ: Danny Cevallos, okay, I mean, you have to look at all the facts and circumstances. We`re trying to figure out the state of mind of this man
and if it`s reasonable. But it`s a little dog with cancer and the woman has a neck brace because she`s just gotten out of surgery and you fear for your
life?
DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This jurisdiction has historically had some of the most liberal self-defense
laws and even allowed defense -- deadly force in use in defense of property alone. That being said, this.
CASAREZ: The great State of Texas.
CEVALLOS: That`s right. That being said, this defendant would have to show the reasonableness of using such deadly force. And if I was prosecuting
this case, I would go right to the Dr. Phil video
[20:35:00] every word he says in there, I would use, I would show it to a jury, and move towards -- especially that last line about I would do the
same thing again, which a clever prosecutor can use to demonstrate to a jury lack of remorse and intent to kill without any interest in self-
defense.
CASAREZ: And Misty, if you`re defending this man, you`re gonna have to maybe watch this in the courtroom. Take a listen. Dr. Phil. He was on. He
spoke.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
MCGRAW: Why didn`t you get in the truck?
CAMPOS: I didn`t have the option. The dog was on my feet, and she had just pushed me off balance.
MCGRAW: Okay. So you fall backwards, you get up, you get in the truck. Did you try to run away?
CAMPOS: I was -- no. I was.
MCGRAW: (inaudible).
CAMPOS: I wasn`t given that choice.
MCGRAW: Did you try to bear hug her?
CAMPOS: I couldn`t bear hug her because I was off balanced and the dog was coming at me, and I don`t know where her husband was. There are so many
variables for me to say, yes, maybe what it should have, but what happened was this. That`s all I can -- I`m within my right. I didn`t know she was a
threat and she came after me, after my threat. That`s all the information I have at that time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Seems very serious, Misty, when he says all this. There is a back story. He had a wife and that wife`s mother came from Mexico, came -- went
to the next-door neighbors, and just talked against him. We`re talking about the man now charged with murder. And so he believes that this family
hated him. Can that help him with the self-defense?
MARRIS: It`s all going to come down to whether or not he thought he was in imminent harm. Some of the facts that you pointed out before, she was
wearing a neck brace. Well, a defense attorney is going to say they had a history, this woman had it out for him. So, if they`re gonna try and sell
to a jury, that it`s reasonable for him to be in fear of this woman.
CASAREZ: But it has to be reasonable, Danny.
CEVALLOS: Right. So what are you going to do -- again, a prosecutor is going to show them a picture of the dog, lest the jury think that we`re
talking about a pit bull or a bull mastiff or some kind of scary-looking dog, not that those are necessarily scary dogs to the dog lovers, but
they`re going to demonstrate and make it real in the courtroom that this was not a reasonable fear of safety, nor was it a reasonable fear of
eminent serious physical harm.
CASAREZ: Jeffrey, what happened to his wife? Hector Campos, he had a wife. He actually got a restraining order against his wife. Listen to this. This
is Hector Campos, the man now charged with murder, communicating vulgarity to restraining order. She couldn`t do that, she couldn`t threaten him any
longer, she couldn`t cause bodily injury to him anymore, she couldn`t destroy their tangible property. What happened to his wife? Is there any
truth to this?
BONEY: Neighbors say that Campos resented Ana Weed because she helped his wife file for divorce and flee to Mexico last year. Apparently, Ms. Weed
helped buy Campos` wife a ticket after he allegedly kept canceling reservations that were set for her to leave, and because his wife had
accused him of being abusive.
CASAREZ: Misty, I got to ask you one other question. Let`s say mentally this is all in his mind, that still does not amount to a self-defense state
of mind.
MARRIS: And you`re completely right, Jean. So you have -- there are two prongs. He has to actually subjectively fear for his life but it also has
to be reasonable. And that`s going to be the sell to the jury, and that`s why they`re gonna look back to the history, and they`re going to try to
argue as defense attorneys that there is his history that`s leading him to believe and a reasonable person would have believed that she was out to get
him.
CASAREZ: Someone out for revenge might do that very same thing, the prosecutor will say. All right. Up next, shocking video. An elder care
worker performing lewd acts on one of her patients. It is all caught on tape. It is -- you got to watch this. And what they say is worse. This man,
100 years old, with dementia.
[20:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: A 26-year-old former health care worker busted. Police say she performed lewd acts including a lap dance on a 100-year-old patient with
dementia.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
(bleep)
CASAREZ: The woman in that video, Brittany Fultz, she joins us next.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: A disturbing new video has surfaced showing a former employee at an Ohio nursing home giving a 100-year-old patient a lap dance. Police say
Brittany Fultz gave that dance and they have charged her with gross sexual imposition. Now, not only does the video show Fultz performing lewd acts
and straddling his leg, she even moons the man.
Sandusky police gave us the video and we do want to warn you, we didn`t blur everything she did. So send your children out of the room right now
because it`s pretty graphic.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
BRITTANY FULTZ, CARE WORKER, FACES CHARGE OF GROSS SEXUAL IMPOSITION: I can show you new things. Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, jeez.
FULTZ: Look at your face, disgusted.
(bleep)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All I know (inaudible).
(bleep)
FULTZ: Do it.
(bleep)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Brittany Fultz and her attorney, Geoffrey Oglesby, join us from Cleveland. Thank you both for joining us. Brittany, I believe that you had
been employed at the Commons at Providence, the rest home in Sandusky, Ohio for about a year. Were you this gentleman`s personal caregiver?
FULTZ: I was one of the personal caregivers. I was always on his group, yes.
CASAREZ: Okay. So, you knew him, 100 years old. He has been diagnosed with dementia.
FULTZ: Uh-huh.
CASAREZ: Why did you do this?
FULTZ: I did this all out of joking around. It`s got blown way out of proportion. I was just joking around with him, and I meant nothing -- it
meant nothing. It should have never even gotten this far.
CASAREZ: And you have been charged with a felony. How many other times did you do this?
FULTZ: Just joking around. Not -- not many times. I mean, it`s not like.
CASAREZ: Not many times.
FULTZ: I mean, we joke around a lot.
CASAREZ: So you did do it some other times. You did. You did. All right.
GEOFFREY OGLESBY, ATTORNEY FOR BRITTANY FULTZ: One second here.
CASAREZ: Yes.
OGLESBY: Yeah. Hold on one second. You know, there is one video of her doing that and the claim that this man has dementia doesn`t mean that he
wasn`t cognizant of what was going on.
CASAREZ: And so you`re trying to say that he consented to it? I just know a person that was just told was incompetent to stand trial because he has
dementia.
OGLESBY: Okay. Well, there is things that he did to her. And it was all kind of in a joking manner. It wasn`t -- you know.
CASAREZ: He did to her. So, she`s the victim and he`s the one to blame here?
OGLESBY: In order to be a victim, somebody has to be victimized. He was not victimized nor was she. He`s a hundred years old.
CASAREZ: She is a caregiver. She had a duty.
OGLESBY: Whoa, no, there is no duty. It`s a job, okay?
CASAREZ: A caregiver has a duty.
OGLESBY: Whoa, slow down. Okay. You can talk over me. But the truth of the matter is this. Okay? She would wash him from head to toe, clean up his
feces, clean off all his.
CASAREZ: What does that have to do with this?
OGLESBY: It has to do with -- if it has to do with sex -- she would do everything to this man. They were just playing around. He would do the same
thing to her. Okay? So you have one video tape. Here is the problem. This man from what my client tells me, he can speak Italian, he remembers
things, he can play the harmonica. He talks to his son. And.
CASAREZ: He was in a rest home. He was in a rest home. He couldn`t care for himself.
[20:50:00] We got more of this video.
OGLESBY: Slow down a minute.
CASAREZ: I`ll come back to you just a minute. Let`s watch some more of this video.
OGLESBY: Okay.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
FULTZ: (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).
FULTZ: what did you say? As long as you want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old are you?
FULTZ: 67. Yeah, where did your teeth go?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know.
FULTZ: You have no teeth? I can`t be with you. Are you going to buy me some?
(bleep)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
FULTZ: Bye.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, Christ.
FULTZ: No, you didn`t.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Brittany, what did you mean when you asked him are you going to buy me some? Buy you what?
OGLESBY: She was -- well, listen, she was joking around with him. He -- listen, this man is in a nursing home. He has absolutely no money to do
anything. So, she was joking around. You know, this is why -- listen, every time the police charges somebody with a crime, if they were guilty, we
wouldn`t need juries now would we? Okay? It was a joke.
CASAREZ: Of course, anyone is innocent until proven guilty.
OGLESBY: She`s innocent all the way.
CASAREZ: Brittany, did you ever touch his private parts?
OGLESBY: When she wash.
FULTZ: When I wash him, never when.
OGLESBY: That`s what we`re trying to say. It is what you don`t understand. She wash his private parts. That was part of her job.
CASAREZ: Brittany, did you ever think you could break his bones?
OGLESBY: She cleans his feces.
CASAREZ: He was 100 years old.
FULTZ: No, I don`t think that I could ever break his bones ever. Ever would I ever hurt anybody. My passion is to help people and care for people. And
I loved him. And everybody can say what they want to say and think bad of me. But I know that I`m a good person and I know that Ralph likes me. So,
that`s all I`m going to say.
CASAREZ: Misty, we`re talking about the dignity of a human being, we`re talking about a family. What if this was your grandfather?
MARRIS: The video is actually appalling, but the defense, they`re going to have an uphill battle with this one. This conduct is just simply
inappropriate and it is criminal. It is criminal conduct.
CASAREZ: Danny, a caregiver does have a duty, that may be in the civil sense, but it can be brought in a criminal sense too.
CEVALLOS: I`m going to surprise you. I think this is a defensible case. I tell you why. The statute in Ohio requires sexual contact and that is very
specifically defined by the code. So the question is, did she touch his erogenous zones? Did she make contact? And she did make contact but still
you`re gonna have the defense of the relationship if any between these two.
Is there any sort of implied consent based on the relationship? If he`s totally non-responsive, then that`s not going to be good for the defense.
But if in any level this is something that they joke around and there is anything consensual, that plus what she has been charged with, the letter
of the law, there maybe a defense here.
CASAREZ: Misty, we covered a case this week where someone with dementia was deemed to be incompetent. They did not understand the charges before them.
They could not assist their attorney. This person is in a rest home. It is not someone that can take care of themselves.
MARRIS: Diagnosed of dementia and the perpetrator knows about his diagnosis. She knows about his mental state. All of those facts that Danny
said, those will be mitigating factors. They are not going to alleviate criminal.
CEVALLOS: Dementia is a broad umbrella, you can (inaudible).
CASAREZ: Brittany, in your defense, what else do you want to tell us? What else do you want us to know?
OGLESBY: Let me just say this, you know, and first off, he would do the same thing to her. Okay? He would have conversations with her. That was all
part of their playing around and doing things of that nature. When you`re in dementia, you`re not necessarily in dementia 24/7. How does he play the
harmonica?
CASAREZ: So this is consensual behavior in other words.
OGLESBY: Oh, absolutely. It was consensual and it wasn`t -- yes, it was consensual, and it wasn`t done to rise the level of sexual activity. That`s
the statute in Ohio. It has something to do with arousal. He was a 100, she`s 26.
FULTZ: I would never try to arouse somebody that is a 100 years old.
CASAREZ: So in other words, sir, then can every caregiver in every rest home, if they develop that relationship with someone of the same or
opposite sex, start doing lap dances?
OGLESBY: It depends.
FULTZ: It wasn`t a lap dance.
OGLESBY: Listen. It`s not against
[20:55:00] the law in Ohio to lap dance, okay? Not at least as of yesterday. You may not like what happened.
CASAREZ: An employer of a rest home?
CEVALLOS: Here`s a deal. It`s a fireable offense, but it`s not a crime. Counsel, the easiest thing is that he waxed and waned. This is a consensual
moment. Even there are other time he couldn`t. And the contact did not come to sexual contact under Ohio revised code. Done.
CASAREZ: And with that.
OGLESBY: That`s it.
CASAREZ: Thank you so much for watching. I`m Jean Casarez, in for Ashleigh Banfield. We will see you back here tomorrow night at 8:00 for PRIMETIME
JUSTICE. Up next, "FORENSIC FILES." Good night, everybody.
[21:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
