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QUEST MEANS BUSINESS
U.S. Investigates WikiLeaks Hacking Claims; U.K. Upgrades Growth Forecast on Budget Day; Lagarde to Feminists: Practice What You Preach;
Aired March 8, 2017 - 16:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00] RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR: . one of the managing directors doing the honors on a day when the market is down a third of one percent.
But that we'll take in our stride on an important day like this. All right, yes, go for it. Good grief, woman. I say, that put some pepper
into the program on Wednesday. It's March the 8th.
WikiLeaks and the CIA hacking tools. Now the investigation is turning on the agency itself.
There are new numbers from Britain's pre-Brexit budget. And the issue is can they be trusted?
And Christine Lagarde wants those who wear the feminist mantle to practice what they preach. You'll hear her on this program tonight.
I'm Richard Quest live in the world's financial capital, where of course, I mean business.
Good evening, it could be the biggest and arguably the most serious theft of CIA documents in code in history. Tonight, the Central Intelligence
Agency and the FBI have both launched investigations into how the files got out, and there are concerns mounting about who could've had access to them.
WikiLeaks has published nearly 9,000 pages and they detail how the CIA turned phones, TVs, and computers into electronic spies. Officials say the
documents published are so far largely genuine as best as anyone can tell. The investigators want to know how WikiLeaks obtain the documents and
whether a contractor or employee leaked them.
And then there's the other worry. That the WikiLeaks could publish computer code that could put the CIA's tools into the hands of cyber
criminals and other hackers. Incidentally, WikiLeaks on its front page specifically says that they have taken care to ensure that cyber code is
What do the documents allege? That the CIA exploited vulnerabilities rather than reported them. And now the manufacturers of the various
devices are scrambling to find the holes and to plug them.
CNN's Samuel Burke is in London with the latest. There are several tentacles of this and I want to take them one at a time. First of all, the
first question of the investigation is how these documents were ever leaked in the first place?
SAMUEL BURKE, CNNMONEY BUSINESS AND TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think they're launching investigations now because somebody leak them. So,
whether is somebody who is like an Edward Snowden, or some of the other people that we've seen over the years leak these documents, remains to be
seen. But at the end of the day it probably was a human being and that's when most people think will end up finding.
QUEST: Right, so, you've got that departmentalized. How the documents got out. But then you've also got the question of what the documents reveal
and the legality of that which was being undertaken.
BURKE: And at the heart of that is basically the revelation or the allegation that basically any device that we own that can be connected to
the Internet, Richard, can be used as an eavesdropping device. Whether it's your phone when you're walking around. Your tablet when you're
sitting in your living room. Or even your television as you sit maybe watching this show? Did you know that your television has a microphone?
And it alleges in these documents that the CIA was able to use the microphone in your television, if at the Samsung television, and even make
it appear as if your TV were off but be listening at the same time.
QUEST: Right, but related to this -- I mean, as I read the justification by WikiLeaks on the front page of this. What they are saying is, firstly,
there is the very serious possibility in the WikiLeaks language, the CIA's weapons -- the way they put it is the CIA could have lost control of these
BURKE: And that's what concerns me the most. Because I don't have anything to hide from the CIA, at least not for now. But the real question
is, if the CIA can do it, then somebody else can or will be able to eventually. We have seen that time and time with these types of tools.
And if it's not the U.S. government, maybe it's the U.K. government or some other government. Or maybe a rogue entity, and that's what worries me. I
don't care if the CIA sees what I do in front of my Samsung television. But I care what some other groups might want to do and maybe they want to
blackmail me with bitcoins. And that's what I think should concern anybody who's watching QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight.
[16:05:00] QUEST: And related to this. An interesting justification again, by WikiLeaks, they sort of say one of the reasons they're so
concerned about it is that the CIA may just be duplicating capabilities and software that's already owned and run by the NSA, and basically wasting
taxpayers money in doing so. They may have duplicated and built a double organization for no need whatsoever.
BURKE: You always say, I hope whatever they're up to, it's profitable. And that certainly would not be a profitable use of the U.S. taxpayers
money. I think at the end of the day though, Richard, again, if there duplicating it from one organization to another, if they can make their
tools it means that another organization can do it as well. So, we have many different parts of one government allegedly doing this. And it could
mean that many parts of another government are also doing it. And it really makes you think. I've talked so many times here on CNN about
Internet connected this, Internet connected toaster. The cart has really gone before the horse. And there's no way to take the microphone out of
your Samsung TV in any easy way. And I think we need to rethink all of that, and I have a feeling that's what will happen after these leaks with
these tech companies.
QUEST: Samuel Burke who is in London for us tonight with that part of the story.
So, what are we actually talking about. Let's put this into real perspective. And we do so as always, live from the living room. In the
living room with the car in the garage outside. Comfortable and ready for an evening's entertainment or a bit of web surfing, or some phone calls.
Now, the reality is, the CIA's reach allegedly extends into all of these major devices. So, for instance, the Windows, Mac, Linux operating
systems, these attacks can be hidden and you never even know that is taking place until somebody is just watching.
And then the older phones that are most vulnerable. Now you could gain access to encrypted app messages. Apple says it's finding new updates to
fix some of the small holes that exist.
And then there's a program called Weeping Angel. As Samuel was saying, I'm watching and enjoying my television program, but while the television is
doing something else or could somebody be listening to microphones inside my television. Samsung is urgently looking into the matter. And perhaps
overall the biggest and worrying future threat of all, the connected car in my garage. Could it be hacked? Not just hacked but in a way that you can
listen and eventually be made to crash.
Now, this is what the CIA is alleged to have been up to. The FBI is waging its own battle with encryption. At the cyber security conference, today,
the FBI director, James Comey, said, there's no such thing as complete privacy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: Even our communications with our spouses, with our clergy members, with our attorneys, are not absolutely private in
America. In appropriate circumstances, a judge can compel anyone of us to testify in court about those very private communications. There is no such
thing as absolute privacy in America. There is no place in America outside of judicial reach.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Rod Beckstrom served as director of National Cybersecurity Center. He joins me now from California. Good to see you as always, and thank you
for taking time to join us. What bothers you most about this allegation with the CIA? Is it the question of have they lost control of their
weapons of hacking? Is it the mere fact they had this capability and therefore wears the legal scrutiny? Or is it just the whole question of
being spied on in my own living room?
[16:10:00] ROD BECKSTROM, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL CYBERSECURITY CENTER: Well, first let's take the last question there, of, you know, the surprise
that got these tech leaks and technologies. Absolutely not. Everyone who's been active in the security field for 10 years now, there's been
peeping Tom software out there that breaks into PC cameras, into TV cameras. You can go to either hacking conferences that have been hacking
cars for years. So, there's actually nothing, nothing new here about the extent of how hacking can be used to break into devices.
I think, you know, the bigger concern for me is that such -- if in fact helped site control and you have to be established, but if it is, that they
have so much information concentrated or handing to contractors that potentially link it. That's extremely concerning. And again, the job of
the CIA is intelligence gathering. Of course, they're going to try to get the best tools they can to do that.
QUEST: Right, but as WikiLeaks -- let me quote from what WikiLeaks says.
"The CIA had created in effect its own NSA with even less accountability and without publicly answering the questions as to whether this massive
budgetary spend could be justified."
BECKSTROM: Fake news. No, I mean, they're trying -- I don't believe for a moment, Richard, that the CIA capabilities exceed the NSA. The NSA is
arguably the premier shop in the world with mathematicians and hackers and experts at doing signals intelligence and developing digital cyber hacks.
Along perhaps with a couple of other major nation-states that we all know well. Yes, the CIA has built some significant capabilities and invested,
yes. And you can remember there is a different approach. The CIA does human intelligence. They tend to focus on humans, but actions by humans.
The NSA is watching the wires as it works, signal intelligence.
QUEST: Surely the most worrying part of this is if the CIA has lost control of his hacking tools, it's hacking weapons. And obviously, the
ability of WikiLeaks howsoever it managed to get this information. You know, people are talking now about WikiLeaks arguably leaking accidentally
cyber code that people could use. But surely it looks as if the CIA's already let the horse out of the stable, before anybody has even thought
about bolting the door.
BECKSTROM: Yes, so, here's the key point here, Richard, as part of our new world. And that is, every cyber weapon that any country develops, that any
hacker or organization develops, can and will be discovered and it will be used against you and everyone else until the defensive remediation's are
developed out there. So, this is a new phase of weaponry and military affairs and intelligence gathering, we've never seen in the history of
mankind. If there is hundreds of millions of lines of code allegedly that WikiLeaks has here, they're going to leak that out in the world. The cost
of copying each of those exploits, where anyone is less than a penny, OK. So, the dynamics of weaponry in cyberspace are completely different than
anything that we've seen before in the history of man. Any weapon you can develop can and will be used --
QUEST: No, hang on a second, Rod. Rod, that is not an argument for trying to keep the stable door closed. I mean, your argument is, well, it's
obviously going to get out and it's cheap to get out. Therefore, you may as well get used to the fact that it's going to get out. That's a rather
weak argument, surely.
BECKSTROM: No, no, no. My point is different. Look, we all know there is technology diffusion in the world and so any intelligence you gather and
develop, any technologies for attack that you develop, it's diffusion time, how long is it protected? You want to protect it as long as you can. The
reality is, almost every exploit that was developed five years ago, is the step of the day. And most exploits get discovered within a month or so, of
them getting out in the world.
But some last longer. And Richard, I'm describing a phenomenon. So, it's not a weak argument. I think it's a strong argument.
QUEST: It's a good argument. And I'm glad you gave it to us tonight. Thank you very much. Rob Beckstrom.
BECKSTROM: Thank you.
QUEST: Getting as good as it gets, yes indeed, as one would expect from QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight.
Wall Street turns sour just before the close of business on Wednesday. The ADP jump numbers, it's a strange sort of survey. It smashed expectations
nearly 300,000 in February. Paul La Monica is here. I want to look at that graph, because, Paul, that selling was late in the session. The
market tootled along, grumbling like a bad dose of indigestion, but it got really bad toward the end.
[16:15:00] PAUL R. LA MONICA, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, moderately bad. I'm not so sure I'd go as far as to say really bad after the way some Fed
speak moderately and modestly. I think investors are getting ready for the jobs report Friday and there grappling with this notion that we could get a
really strong number, which is great. And President Trump will probably tweet about how wonderful it is and take credit for it, but it probably
guarantees that the Fed will raise rates next week, and even at the next meetings after that. And possibly more than currently expected.
QUEST: Ok, but the issue here, I'm seeing more and more comments from pundits, gurus, market whatever's, suggesting that there something going on
in this market. That its strength is not there. And you have seen people suggesting there is a crack of 30 percent of it, 50 percent, whatever, in
LA MONICA: Yes, I think there are some growing worries that because of how high the market has gotten, even though is cooled off a little bit, we had
such an impressive run since the election, we are vulnerable for bad news. And that bad news can be something as simple as the president isn't able to
get a stimulus plan with the magnitude he originally proposed, through Congress as quickly as he had liked. There is also concern is that the Fed
may now raise rates way too aggressively, could kill off the recovery before it's really even taken hold. So, there are a lot more concerns out
there right now then just a few weeks ago, when I think people were basking in the glow of the beginning of a Trump presidency.
QUEST: Snap. I was just looking to see what snap did.
LA MONICA: It snapped back today a little bit.
QUEST: It did. Just over 6 percent. Good to see you.
LA MONICA: Yes.
QUEST: I'm still down. Don't worry, I'm still down.
European markets close mostly higher. Take a look at the numbers. It was Adilas where the stock closed up 9 percent. That's a remarkable rise on a
mature stock. It raises guidance with a stellar outlook for this year. And the market rewarded it. Overall the Dax didn't really respond to the
general market. The U.K. is now forecast to go even faster this year as it heads toward Brexit. The finance minister, Philip Hammond, the Chancellor,
unveiled his budget in Westminster. The Chancellor effectively known as the spreadsheet Phil, Philip Hammond. And he played up to his reputation
during the budget announcement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILIP HAMMOND, BRITISH FINANCE MINISTER: I turn now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to the OBR forecast. This is the spreadsheet bit. But bear with me,
because I have a reputation to defend. The OBR forecast for level of GDP in 2021 to be broadly the same as an autumn statement. However, the path
by which we get there has changed. Reflecting the recent strength in the economy, the OBR has up graded its forecast for growth next year from 1.4
percent to 2 percent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: These growth forecasts are both -- at all levels, Sajid Javid is the British Secretary of State for Communities. I put it to him that while
growth is looking better than expected, the big issue remains risk and Brexit.
JAJID JAVID, BRITISH SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMUNITIES: Your right to point out there are challenges that lie ahead. There are also equally
there are opportunities. And we've seen from the Chancellor today is a very prudent robust approach. I mean, there's no big spending spree and
what he has spent extra on technology and skills and adult social care for example, He stunted elsewhere so the rises in spending are matched by you
funding initiatives. He won't risk the safeness of the economy today, and he will make sure that the economy remains strong. And one of the ways I
think to do that is to keep building confidence by bringing down borrowing. So, should there be a challenge around the corner, no one knows what lies
ahead. There are lots of risks in a global economy. I think Britain is in a very good place to withstand the global risks.
QUEST: Can we have confidence in these numbers? And by that I'm not in any way impugning the office of budget -- the OBR, you're indeed your own
economist. What I'm suggesting is the unknowns are so unknown, the waters are so uncharted -- as I look at that list today, minister, and I saw, you
know, growth in 2018, 2019, 2020. And then you sell borrowing numbers into the same period, but frankly, since we don't know what the final deal with
the EU will look like, and we don't know what the investment strategies of Brexit companies will be, I start to wonder whether the numbers can be
relied on with confidence.
JAVID: Well, I think let's look at the facts. Let's look at what we actually know already. Clearly, we know that Britain is exiting the
European Union. We've known that for a number of months. Yet investment continues, employment continues to rise, and were saying more and more
businesses being created in the U.K.
[16:20:03] So, I think that actually is a very strong sign of confidence about how people, the real investors, the real traders out there, how they
really feel about the British economy. But I'm the first to accept that you don't know what's going to be around the corner. You need to be
prepared. Of course, there are challenges ahead. But you balance it out with the opportunities that exist as well.
The forecast today, the 2 percent growth forecasts, and obviously, it's a forecast, and who knows with the ultimate out turn will be. But it is
independent forecast. That is the highest rate of growth in the G7 for this year. So, I think it shows that despite the challenges that Britain
faces, is still forecasts to do better, much better than many of its international partners. And that's really the underlying message in this
budget today. The economy remains strong as Britain prepares to exit the European Union.
QUEST: The British minister joining me earlier.
And today is an anniversary, and a very unhappy and sad one too, MH370, Malaysia Airlines a 777 200, it vanished 3 years ago, this evening. Now
the search has been suspended. The families remain without answers. We're going to hear from the victims support group, Voice370, who tell me they
feel disrespected, neglected, and sidelined.
QUEST: To some the anniversary in the world of aviation, it's three years since MH370 disappeared and triggered one of the most challenging search
operations that's ever been undertaken. One incidentally, that so far has failed to find the aircraft. Families of the victims gathered outside the
Chinese Foreign Ministry in Beijing with signs that said, "Never give up," and "We'll wait for you forever." The Chinese government along with
Malaysia and Australia suspended the search back in January.
Grace Subathirai Nathan is the spokesperson for Voice370. The support group of relatives of the victims. Her mother was on board MH370. She
joined me on the line from Kuala Lumpur, and I asked her, why she thinks the authorities have been unable to find the missing plane.
GRACE SUBATHIRAI NATHAN, SPOKESPERSON, VOICE370: Well, the lack of information leading to the investigation. They don't know exactly what
happened to the plane. They don't know exactly where the light ended. A lot of really speculation. And I don't know whether they can be blamed
entirely, given the circumstances. But I don't think that they should give up.
QUEST: I mean, there's always been this question, which I've seen quoted from you self, suggesting that the Malaysians just want the whole thing
over and done with and forgotten about.
NATHAN: It's unfortunate but that's what they believe and is inconsistent with -- they're belief is inconsistent with wanting all of this to go away.
They have not engaged with us in any meaningful way over the last three years. They have always treated us as incidentals to the investigation and
search for the plane, and not as part of the investigation, that's how we feel we should be. We've often felt disrespected, neglected and sidelined
which hasn't help them with their image in this.
[16:25:00] QUEST: I realize it's a moot point but it is still of interest at one level, as to what your preferred view of what happened to the plane
is? Nefarious or mechanical?
NATHAN: Of course, we would rather it be mechanical if I had to choose. I mean, just bearing the thought of someone trying to be malicious and trying
to be rid of the plane and all of its passengers is almost too hard to bear even this far out. Even three years on. It's not something I want to even
entertain. I've stayed away from all sorts of conspiracy theories and all sorts of theories really, except for the official version just for my own
peace of mind. I think beating around the bush or having the circular arguments inside my head really doesn't help.
QUEST: Obviously, the reality of the situation weighs heavily upon you. So, what do you do next? I mean, this is one of those occasions, the third
anniversary goes by, the fourth, the fifth and so on. But you had to just keep going on and doing the best you can.
NATHAN: The primary objective for all of us is that the plane is found. I mean, initially this was motivated by a relief for closure, but as the
weeks rolled into months and as the months have grown in two years it becomes less about us and more about the future of aviation safety in
general. I for one, truly believe that we have to find this plane to prevent something like this from happening again. MH370 should not have
happened for naught.
At least we should learn from it. At least we should prevent something like this from happening again. Eight million people flying every day is
no small statistic. This should be prevented. Air crashes and aviation accidents are very costly and the search in seas is very dangerous and it
is very technical. It's very complicated. Why shouldn't we just try really hard to find this plane is gone missing. Try to find out why it's
gone missing and then definitely prevent them from happening again.
QUEST: Les Abend, our good friend and knowledgeable aviation analyst. And now the author of "Paper Wings." We are going to talk about in just a
second. He joins me now. Really good to see you.
LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Good to see you, Richard.
QUEST: So, three years ago, hard to believe, isn't it? And actually, you know, we may know a little bit more about the rough vicinity off Australia
where the plane is. But we actually know absolutely nothing. Not a jot more about what happened to it since that first day.
ABEND: It's amazing to me. And with all the analysis and the technology that was available for vessels out there that I'm fairly certain. And even
as this investigation was concluding, they did adrift analysis of the pieces that they had verified as more than likely belonging to the 777.
And now they've established because of the drift analysis that there might be another search area that's just to the north.
QUEST: You know, I've written a book on the subject, so I can speak with a bit of authority. It was almost inconceivable to my view that they didn't
take that search. They've allowed the resources to disband, rather than just saying, well were in for a penny, another 10 million, going search up
there as well.
ABEND: It's got to be devastating the families. And I'm with you on that. I mean, why not crowd source additional financing to -- we need to know. I
need to know is a professional. From my standpoint of why that airplane went down. I'm a firm believer that it's something mechanical. My gut
reaction when you and I were involved with this reporting that the captain diverted the airplane because of an emergency situation.
QUEST: So, here's the real problem with both of our theories in this case. The inside word is that that the Boeing, the investigators, probably
believe it was nefarious, probably by the captain. And the evidence or part of the evidence, is that there'd been no warnings about the 777 200.
You've received notes on. Your airline hasn't received any, let's check this a little more often to make sure this doesn't -- there's been no
chatter that suggests. And they use that as evidence for saying it's not the plane, it was the captain.
ABEND: Well, but --
QUEST: Do you feel any -- do you have a moment of doubt about the aircraft in that sense?
ABEND: I have a moment of doubt from the standpoint of there were other situations, mechanical situations that didn't result in tragedies that
could have been related to this. We find things about airplanes every day called error word used directives, which you are well aware of, because of
the situation that could have been disastrous and it's corrected. So, I'm not convinced, I'm not convinced is that captain.
QUEST: Tell me about the book.
ABEND: The book, "Paper Wings," it's a mystery suspense whodunit thriller with insight into my profession.
It's going to a series. It's going to be very similar to the cold case of airplane accidents. And it's very entertaining. And it doesn't require a
lot of technical knowledge. And I think people will enjoy it.
QUEST: And it's suitable for me. No technical knowledge and entertainment, thank you.
Today marks International Women's Day. After the break one of the world's most foremost champions of gender equality and one of the most influential
women in the world. Christine Lagarde says, it's time for the world leaders who call themselves feminists to practice what they preach.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[16:30:00] CHRISTINE LAGARDE, MANAGING DIRECTOR, IMF: To all those who have declared themselves feminists, and I've applauded them, and I continue
to applaud them, let us make sure that we hold them to account.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:32:00] QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest, there is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. The actress Anne Hathaway asks the UN to take
action on paid parental leave. We are going to meet one of the working mothers who was alongside of her.
We're going to be speaking to Nigeria's trade minister as this country rolls out its economic reform plan. As we move forward, this is CNN. And
on this network the news always comes first.
ISIS says it was behind at Afghanistan's biggest hospital in Kabul, several gunmen disguised as medical staff stormed the facility which is located
near the US Embassy. They killed at least 30 people including doctors and patients. The gunmen were killed after a six-hour battle with security
19 children and teenagers are dead after a fire spread through a shelter for abused children in Guatemala. At least 30 people were injured and some
are still missing. The shelter is for minors who are homeless or victims of violence. It has been a target of multiple complaints in the past
Former President Barack Obama is said to be angry, exasperated and in disbelief at Donald Trump's wiretapping accusations. Mr. Trump issued a
barrage of unsubstantiated tweets last weekend accusing the former president of ordering that his phones be tapped, that would've been a
criminal act. Many in Congress including top Republicans say they haven't seen any evidence.
There it stands in all its majesty just at the top of Wall Street, more than 3 meters tall reeling back on its haunches, ready to pounce it is the
charging bull in Manhattan's financial district. And as you can tell it's the aggressive testosterone fueled culture that Wall Street is famous for.
Well, today on International Women's Day, the bull got some company.
There she is, hands on hips, chin high, ponytail out, it is called a fearless girl statue and it is glaring right back after bull. It was put
there by State Street Global Advisors an asset manager that wants to see more women on its client's portfolios and corporate boards. We went down
to Wall Street and discovered the crowds they are bullish on the fearless girl.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[16:35:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do need more women, we do need to acknowledge women's rights in the workplace, in government, and society.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think by bringing more diversity whether is racially or across gender, I think is going to be really good in leadership on
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is really important to have something like that in the middle of all of this just showing that women are here women are not
doing anything that a man can do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we have come a long way, America has come a long way, but we can do better, absolutely better. Having more women on
boards should not be a question we should ask in the 2017, right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it empowers a young women and girls to say that you can do anything you want.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No matter what, no matter how big that bull is, women can defy all odds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Christine Lagarde is one of the most influential women in the world. Former head of Baker McKenzie the law firm, former finance minister
of France, now the managing director at the IMF. And Madame Lagarde wants to hold feminists accountable on this international women's day. The MD
sees a gap between what is being said about women's equality and what is actually being done to achieve it. He told me that the proof is
undeniable, the more that women are involved in an organization, the better the organization performs.
CHRISTINE LAGARDE, MANAGING DIRECTOR, IMF: The rhetoric does not necessarily match the practice. And I don't really understand why, when
you look at numbers it is pretty obvious that when you have a good number of women in any executive group, and any group for that matter, the results
are better. When you bring more women to a group there is more diversity of view and you come to better conclusions. When you have, women join the
labor force it is better for growth, it reduces inequality, it improves the whole chemistry.
And yet it is not happening fast enough, and in some cases, it is not happening at all. So, what I would like to say, Richard, given that you
are offering me this opportunity is to all of those who have declared themselves feminists, and I applaud them and I continue to applaud them,
let us make sure that we hold them to account. And that they actually demonstrate what they preach.
QUEST: What does that mean though because all leaders, CEOs constantly if they don't call themselves feminists they certainly espouse the idea of
equality, equality in pay, equality in opportunity. And government leaders have been saying the same thing, how do you hold them to account?
LAGARDE: First of all, you have to measure, you have to measure on a disaggregated basis, in other words you have to identify who makes what,
who is entitled to what, what is the carrier plan, and in terms of fiscal affairs for instance, doing gender budgeting is quite helpful in that
respect. I will give you one example, there are still many countries around the world that have embedded in their legal system, and their
constitutions sometimes, discrimination against women. Government should start with that, eradicate those discriminations and then make sure that it
QUEST: But when you go and talk to one of those governments, when you talk to one of those leaders, I mean, you give them the rounds of the table?
LAGARDE: I try to explain to them very clearly where the discriminations are, what they can do to improve the situation. And just to give you a
couple of examples, there have been quite a few governments to which we have said, change your tax system. Don't have the family as a tax unit,
make sure that the tax unit is the individual because invariably when it is a family tax unit the second earner is more heavily taxed
and guess what, the second earner is invariably the wife.
In the same vein, we say to governments have more childcare centers, please. Because that will help enormously, many women who are thinking
about joining workforce but are reluctant to do so because there is no way that they can make sure their children are looked after properly.
QUEST: This idea of holding to account, holding leaders, holding feminists, those who espouse the feminist cause to account, are the worst
offenders men or women?
LAGARDE: We can all do better.
[16:40:00] And to women in positions of power and authority and likely to change the environment, I say be mindful of other women and make sure that
you are not only a role model but you actually make way to others after you.
QUEST: Do you find it slightly depressing, all the years after you came into high level of Baker McKenzie, senior lawyer, Minister of finance,
after all of these years we are still going on about this issue? That this issue is still a real live issue that needs to be dealt with.
LAGARDE: It is a bit depressing, but I think it will be continuously so, because there is an element of culture, there is an element of history,
there is an element of biology and genetics about it, which we have to constantly fight against. And we should do so because I think it leads to
improvement of the entire community.
QUEST: Christine Lagarde talking to me from IMF. The United Nations marked International Women's Day by launching a campaign for paid parental
leave around the world. The actress Anne Hathaway delivered the keynote address.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNE HATHAWAY, ACTRESS: Paid parental leave is not about taking days off work, it is about creating the freedom to define roles, to choose how to
invest time and establish new positive cycles of behavior. Companies that have offered paid parental leave for employees have recorded improved
employee retention, reduced absenteeism and training costs, and boosted productivity and morale. Far from not being able to afford to have paid
parental leave, it seems that we cannot afford not to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: A most extraordinary state of affairs, Claire Sebastian spoke to Amber Scorah a mother who is working with Anne Hathaway at the UN leading
the fight for change.
CLAIRE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Amber Scorah is now the proud mother to eight-month old baby girl called Sevy. Every milestone she passes is a
reminder of what might have been.
AMBER SCORAH, CAMPAIGNER: This is a last picture I took of Carl, it was a morning before I took him to daycare.
SEBASTIAN: Her son Carl was born in 2015 and for three months Amber's employer paid her to stay at home with him. When that time was up she was
not ready to leave him but she could not afford to give up her job and lose her family's health care.
SCORAH: I managed to convince myself that it would be OK as many parents do, and found that the care provider that was highly recommended by friends
and people I knew, when I dropped them off that morning, and said goodbye, within two hours he had died. Medical examiner has never been able to
determine what the cause of death was. He was put down for a nap and nobody checked on him and when the caregiver went to wake him up, because I
was coming at lunch to breast-feed him, his lips were blue and he was already dead.
SEBASTIAN: Do you think if you hadn't had to leave him things would've been different?
SCORAH: Definitely, of course as a mother I feel that because there is nobody that will care for your child in the way that you will.
SEBASTIAN: She has turned her grief into activism launching a campaign in Carl's name to push for a federal paid family leave law. So, other
families don't have to go through what hers did. Last August she even delivered a petition to both the Trump and Clinton campaigns. Amber
Scorah's three months of paid maternity leave is actually well above average in a country where government data shows 87% of Americans still
have no access to paid family leave. Currently the US is the only developed country in the world that does not mandate paid family leave.
President Trump has promised to change that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: By recapturing fraud and improper payments in the unemployment insurance program, we can provide six weeks of paid
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: That was back in September, now President Trump has even hinted the benefit might extend beyond women.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: My administration wants to work with members of both parties to make childcare accessible and affordable to help ensure new parents that
they have paid family leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCORAH: You can see he is full of mischief.
SEBASTIAN: It is progress says Amber but it is not enough.
SCORAH: For very month that a woman has maternity leave the risk of infant mortality rates were down by 13%, so basically every month Trump will tack
on up to a certain point, he is going to be saving babies lives.
SEBASTIAN: Claire Sebastian, CNN Money, New York.
QUEST: Completely different direction now as we continue on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, the runway in Nigeria's capital is officially closed and kaput.
And the critics say that is hugely embarrassing. We are going to be discussing the nation's trade with the nation's trade minister next. And
other issues concerning Nigeria's new economic reform plan.
[16:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: The airport in Nigeria's capital closed today for six weeks, it's runway is deemed to be decrepit and in dangerous conditions. And now
flights are being redirected. Abuja International Airport handled almost 5000 domestic flights alone in December, so the smaller airport of Kaduna
is expected to fill the void. All this comes as Nigeria unveils its economic reform plan. Which is designed to help the country get new loans
from the World Bank.
The Nigerian trade minister joins me now from London. Minister, good to see you, sir, thank you for that. We don't need to concern ourselves too
much with Abuja airport other than it is a manifestation of a lack of investment. But at a time when the country is in recession, dealing with a
low oil price, and oil price under pressure, minister, what do you need to do to turn around the Nigerian economy?
OKECHUKWU ENELAMAH, NIGERIAN TRADE MINISTER: Thank you for having me. First, let me say that with respect to the airport, you are right it is
part of a larger infrastructure need. But clearly it is better to get the airport right and get it right once and for all, then to manage it poorly.
I think while it is inconvenient I think it is the right decision to clearly get the airport back to where it needs to be and then build more
infrastructure from there.
Now in terms of what we need to do to get the economy back on track like you asked, you had made a point earlier that we recently only yesterday
launched the Nigerian economic recovery plan. And that plan captures in essence the key priorities of this government for the medium-term, 2017 to
2020, that we believe properly implemented will get the economy back on track.
QUEST: Related to this, the issue of Nigeria if you like fulfilling its economic ambitions, it is always been a country of great prospect, which
somehow manages to drop the ball at the last moment in many ways. For a variety of reasons that are well known and documented, do you think the new
government has finally got a grip on what needs to change systemically in Nigeria?
ENELAMAH: Absolutely, I think so and I think so partly because even the greatest critics of Nigeria agree that what we need to do is diversify our
economy away from a mono-economy that depends on oil for most of his foreign exchange and most of its government revenues.
[16:50:00] The key is how do you do that, in this economic recovery and growth plan captures in essence how you do that. Some of the highlights of
the plan include the full cost on agriculture, food processing and agribusiness which is a key contributor to our GDP but one that requires
more investment. Food costs and infrastructure particularly in Nigeria, and food cost and industrialization.
And we think by implementing the strategies in that plan we will definitely get our act together.
QUEST: Let me just finally ask you, there seems to be a disagreement between -- one of the spokesman for the president suggests that Nigerians
should be cautious when visiting the United States. The U.S. Embassy in Lagos says no, Nigerians have nothing to worry about, they are not on the
travel ban list, and they have nothing to worry about.
Minister, what is the position of the government in relation to Nigerians visiting the U.S.?
ENELAMAH: I think the points made are very valid, we heard from the U.S. ambassador, we have also heard from the foreign affairs minister, so I
think we have to accept what they have advised us. Because clearly, as I say that is hearing from the horse's mouth.
QUEST: We are grateful, sir, that you came in this evening to talk to us. Incidentally, I'm going to take the opportunity, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS will
be coming from Nigeria, we are doing some special editions later this year from Lagos, I hope that you will be able to join us when we are down there.
ENELAMAH: I will be happy to be invited, thank you.
QUEST: Take the opportunity to give the invitation while you have the guest here.
You may be familiar with this fear flown on the Boeing 747. It is the glamour of the spiral staircase, I've got one of my own spiral staircases
here. When we come back, why Airbus may be getting rid of its own spiral staircase.
QUEST: The world's airlines are on a quest to fill plans with passengers only want to do so more than ever before. What does it mean? It means
sacrificing style, comfort. Take for example, the grand staircase on the Airbus A380, the super jumbo, the whale of the air. The grand staircase
which comes down from the upper deck, and that is the one at the back of the aircraft, a staircase which goes around which is at the rear of the
[16:55:00] The reports are that this famous feature of the front and the back may be squeezed and shrunken to make up to 60 more seats. Airbus is
not commenting on the report that the staircase which is actually just there, it is like an ocean liner. Airbus isn't commenting on that
And then you have the whole question of the Boeing 777 and what is happening with these, how many seats can you get? According to "Airline
Weekly" major carriers want to put more seats in the 777. So here you got a number of seats, you actually want to put even more across over the
course of -- how many seats can you get in? So here you've got three, four, three, ten seats. Many airlines would just go for three, three,
three. Now they are going for three, four, three.
To make it 10 across, amongst the airlines that are doing it, it is known as aircraft densification. These are all airlines that are doing it,
particularly British Airways are all doing.
We will have a Profitable Moment after the break assuming we can squeeze in.
[17:00:00] QUEST: It is hard to imagine that three years ago, tonight MH370 went missing over the South China Sea between Malaysia and Vietnam.
And hundreds of millions of dollars later we still have no real idea of where the plane is except for the debris that has been found. The real
disgrace up to now is perhaps that the search stopped. There was strong evidence that they should have continued to search further north than the
existing zone, and they chose not to. And for that of course I think those making the decision should hang their heads in shame.
And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I am Richard Quest in New York, whatever you are up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable.
Off for a couple of days, I will see you on Monday.