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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Lawmakers Debate Process To Trigger Brexit; Scotland To Consider Independence Referendum; Dutch Foreign Minister Speaks To CNN Amid Turkey Row; CNN Speaks To Voters In The Netherlands; Dutch PM: We Must "Beat Wrong Sort Of Populism"; White House Spokesman Explains Trump's Controversial Claim; Republican Health Care Bill Analysis Released; . Aired 4-5p ET
Aired March 13, 2017 - 16:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN INTERNATIONAL GUEST ANCHOR: You have been watching "CNN NEWSROOM" with Brooke Baldwin. THE WORLD RIGHT NOW begins now.
WARD: Hello. I'm Clarissa Ward, standing in for Hala Gorani live from CNN London. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
We begin tonight here in the United Kingdom and a significant day in politics. Lawmakers in the houses of parliament have debated Article 50,
the landmark move, that would officially kick start Britain's tricky divorce from the European Union. They rejected two of the key amendments,
suggested by the upper house, but before all of that, a dramatic moment and a political bombshell from Scotland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLA STURGEON, SCOTTISH FIRST MINISTER: So I can confirm today that next week, I will seek the authority of the Scottish parliament to agree with
the U.K. government the details of a Section 30 order. The procedure that will enable the Scottish parliament to legislate for an independence
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: Two and a half years after Scotland said no to independence, Nicola Sturgeon set the ball rolling for a second vote. But Downing Street hit
back, calling the announcement divisive. Here is what Prime Minister Theresa May had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The tunnel vision that the SMP has shown today is deeply regrettable. It sets Scotland on a course for more
uncertainty and division, creating huge uncertainty and this is a time when the evidence is that the Scottish people, the majority of the Scottish
people, do not want a second independence referendum.
So, instead of playing politics with the future of our country, the Scottish government should focus on delivering good government and public
services for the people of Scotland. Politics is not a game.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: We are covering this story from all angles. We have Diana Magnay with us in Edinburgh and Phil Black is outside the House of Parliament in
London. Phil, I just want to go to you first. What's the very latest on the bill?
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Clarissa, the British prime minister is very closer to get thing the bill she wants, that would allow her to kick
start the process, triggering Article 50, beginning the two-year process of withdrawing from the European Union.
As you mentioned, the House of Commons voted to reject the two amendments that had been added by the House of Lords. Recently, those two amendments
seeking to guarantee the rights of E.U. citizens.
Also guaranteeing the parliament a vote on any final Brexit deal with the E.U. They're now gone, and so the bill must go back to the House of Lords,
which it will do very soon. And the House of Lords are expected to fall in line behind the directly elected House of Commons and simply approve that
bill in its unchanged form.
Once that happens, it means Theresa May has the ability to trigger Article 50 as early as tomorrow. But the government has been indicating today, it
is more likely to happen later towards the end of the month -- Clarissa.
WARD: OK, well, Scotland certainly did drop something of a bombshell, shall we say. Diana, just explain to our viewers what the significance is
of a potential forum for independence in Scotland.
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it throws a major spanner in the works for Theresa May's Brexit talks, especially on the eve of a possible
triggering of Article 50 and the start of the whole divorce procedures. What it does for Nicola Sturgeon, though, is it gives her some leverage
once again over the Brexit process.
Because the thing is, in Scotland, after that first independence vote, where the Scotts decided to stay within the union came Brexit and 62
percent of the Scottish people wanted to stay part of the E.U.
And that is why Nicola Sturgeon has decided to call for another independence referendum. And she is complaining about the fact that since
Brexit, when Theresa May promised Scotland a role in the Brexit talks, she's effectively and all the administrations have effectively been
[16:05:07]So she's throwing down the gauntlet to Theresa May and saying, you do know that if you push for a very hard Brexit, you face a possible
breakup of the union. That's where Scotland stands.
That's very, very serious for Theresa May, who has always said she's a committed unionist. That said, it does lie with Westminster to give the
approval to any Scottish independence referendum and that is the leverage that Theresa May holds -- Clarissa.
WARD: Phil, you actually managed to speak to the former first minister of Scotland, Alex Salmond (ph) today, what was his take on it?
BLACK: Sir Alex Salmond was the leader who made the last Scottish vote on independence a reality. A vote that he lost, but he was certainly looking
very happy today.
What I asked him was about how he believed Nicola Sturgeon could convince the British prime minister to allow this referendum to go ahead because of
course, she must convince the prime minister, the government and ultimately the parliament behind me. This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX SALMOND, FORMER SCOTTISH FIRST MINISTER: Well, a bit like I persuaded David Cameron some years back. That boat sailed. The idea nowadays that
Westminster, the imperial parliament, even if they are planning the Empire Mark II, can say to other nations, you shall, you shall not have a
referendum, a national self-determination. These days are over. These days are gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACK: So the Scottish view is that they very much have an electoral mandate for calling yet another referendum because of their long-stated
objection to Scotland being pulled out of the E.U. against its will. But even if the prime minister accepts that she could still frustrate Nicola
Sturgeon when it comes to the timing of the referendum and not agree to Nicola Sturgeon's preferred timetable.
Nicola Sturgeon has said she wants the end of next year, perhaps early 2019 at the latest. But there is an argument going around this path that Nicola
Sturgeon should be made to wait until the Brexit deal is finalized and the Scottish people have a real choice.
They know what they're voting for between the Brexit option and the idea of actually breaking away from the United Kingdom itself -- Clarissa.
WARD: And just quickly to you, Diana, is there a sense right now that there is broad support for independence in Scotland for another referendum?
MAGNAY: Well, there's more support than there was last time. It's inching up. The polls are pretty much neck and neck, slightly lower for those who
want independence. But from everybody I've spoken to on the street today, they've said, we don't think it's a bad idea, but it is fraught with
It may change, though. Over the course of a campaign, the numbers of people who were galvanized to vote will obviously change. And this time
around, it will be much more difficult for Westminster to wage a committed campaign to keep Scotland within the union, because it will be struggling
with its negotiations with the E.U. and that could work in Nicola Sturgeon's favor -- Clarissa.
WARD: OK, thank so much, Phil Black at the Houses of Parliament. Diana Magnay in a very windy Edinburgh. Thank you both.
Will populism win in the Netherlands? We'll have an answer after Wednesday's election. The top two politicians there are facing off in
11th-hour debate. The far-right Geert Wilders came out swinging on the failure of immigration putting the leader of the more moderate right party
and current prime minister on the defense.
But Mark Rutte's debate prep was interrupted by the weekend's diplomatic dustup with Turkey. This looks like it could be a scene in Istanbul, but
actually, it's Waterdam. These people were protesting Mr. Rutte's decision not to let Turkish officials into the Netherlands.
Those officials wanted to campaign to a huge Turkish ex-pat community in favor of a referendum that would consolidate more power under Turkey's
president and there was some fallout.
Turkey's president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, says Nazi-ism is alive in the west. Well, Europe is calling that comment a step too far. Our own Hala
Gorani spoke exclusively to the Dutch foreign minister for his reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERT KOENDERS, DUTCH FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, frankly, with I think it is extremely insulting to the Dutch government and to the Dutch people. We
were the victims of Nazism during the Second World War. Many people have been killed, have been the bombardments on Rotterdam.
And then to compare decision with which we took and even we tried to accommodate the Turkish foreign minister to have a meeting in the consulate
in Amsterdam, but he started to say, well, if I don't get an agreement quickly, I'm going to get into sanctions to the Netherlands.
So we had no choice than to take this decision. To compare that with Nazi=ism I think is an insult to us and I hope he doesn't mean it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: Hala will join us in about 20 minutes with more of her exclusive interview.
[16:10:08]What are voters in the Netherlands thinking of all of this, just two days ahead of the election? Well, CNN's Atika Shubert is in Dutch city
of Rotterdam and she joins us now. Atika, it's looking pretty close.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's very close. And in the most recent polls, Wilders and Rutte are neck and neck and Rutte
today in his press conference made an appeal directly to voters saying they should stay the course and not gamble with the nationalist, anti-Islam
policies of Wilders.
But you know, for a significant portion of Dutch voters, Wilders really speaks to their concerns. We had the opportunity to spend the day with
what group of fisherman and they told us they are supporters of Geert Wilders.
SHUBERT (voice-over): Dutch fisherman, Jan De Boer easily cuts through the North Sea, but fishing is a tough job. Grueling conditions, long hours,
Jan De Boer's whole family is in the fishing industry and they have always voted for the same party, until now.
JAN DE BOER, FISHERMAN: We have always (inaudible) Party, but now we think Geert Wilders. It's the only party the fight to the European rules.
SHUBERT: For De Boer, the problem is E.U. regulations on fishing. He takes special issue with the law that says he must count every fish he
catches against a mandated (inaudible), even the smaller fish he believed should be allowed back into the water to keep fish stocks up.
DE BOER: Islam and all the other things (inaudible) we can handle it. For me the important thing is just the rules. We want to fish and our children
want to fish.
SHUBERT: Fishing researcher, William (inaudible) tells me it's less about fish and more about Wilders' call to ban the Muslim holy brook, the Koran.
(on camera): Do you know who you'll be voting for this election?
WILLIAM DEB HEYJER, RESEARCHER: Yes, for sure. No doubt about it, I'll vote on Wilders. He is the only one who is having the courage to tell the
people what's going on in our country. We are having the feeling that we are losing our rules, our identity.
SHUBERT (voice-over): Dutch identity is strong in the fishing village of Oork. Foreigners are a rarity. Wilders' campaign posters are visible in
some neighborhoods. And some here, like Tony Regnerus, believe migrants and refugees are getting unfair benefits. He gets up early every day to
pack and deliver the fresh catch. Mostly to Asian food restaurants. And when he drives into the cities, he resents what he sees.
TONY REGNERUS, FISH DISTRIBUTOR: Every day I come in big cities, in Rotterdam and they're all wearing Canada goose jackets. I don't have one.
It's 600 euro. I can't pay it and I'm the working man. It's got to be the other way around.
SHUBERT: Last year, the Netherlands took in more than 9,000 refugees. Asylum seekers here do receive benefits. Basic housing, up to $60 a week,
and the possibility of a job but only for 24 weeks in a year and 75 percent of that salary is reclaimed by the government to pay for upkeep.
But Regnerus says the government should be taking care of its own before allowing others in. The average fisherman here makes a little more than
$2,000 a month according to government statistics, a salary that hasn't matched in the last decade.
REGNERUS: Immigrants all coming in and they get a better life and they get a better life than the working man. They're not push to do anything with
their lives. They're not pushed to get a job. It's just -- I'm not talking about freeloading or something like that. I just mean you're here,
you're welcome and -- but, when are you going back?
SHUBERT: These Dutch fisherman pride themselves on their family traditions and hard work, but they are also angry and frustrated. Every day, they
cast their nets. Election Day is their one chance to cast their votes.
SHUBERT: Now, after Wilders has been campaigning for so long on this anti- immigration platform, it's probably not a surprise that this recent spat with Turkey has played into the election. Here at Erasmus University in
Rotterdam, Wilders and Rutte had their first televised debate.
But many voters here we spoke to were still not sure which candidate it would benefit, Wilders or Rutte. We'll have to wait and see for the
election on Wednesday -- Clarissa.
WARD: Indeed. We'll be watching closely. Atika Shubert live for us in Rotterdam. Thank you.
Well, we could see a turning point in a populist movement sweeping the western world on Wednesday after the shock winds of Brexit and Donald
Trump. But before the major tests of far-right parties in France and Germany, the Dutch elections will be watched closely and Mark Rutte know
it's a moment of truth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[16:15:10]MARK RUTTE, DUTCH PRIME MINISTER: The Netherlands is a big country, but not as big as France and Germany. I see this is as the
quarter finals in trying to beat your own sort of populism and the half- final are in France in April and May, but you have your presidential elections. And then in September, we will have the Boonistack elections in
Germany being the finals, the biggest country in the European Union.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: Well, is he right? For that, I'm joined now by CNN international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson. Nic, are we looking at another European
election that is potentially going to be decided by immigration?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I think so. And if we listen to what Mark Rutte also said in that press conference, he really
echoed the words of what the fisherman told Atika. The fisherman said, it's about we feel like we're losing our roots and our identity.
What did Mark Rutte say? He said, you know, we want to stop this wave of populism, but what is the language he used. He said, we're OK with
immigrants providing they accept our values and beliefs and the way our society function. That's just another way of saying the same thing.
And if you listen to what -- how experts have evaluated the language of nationalists all across Europe, the common themes are, we feel that our
traditions and ways of life are under attack or under threat. So yes, absolutely, center stage on this issue and Mark Rutte talking about it as
WARD: And it's interesting that Rutte has almost been forced to move to the right because of the challenge that nationalists like Wilders pose.
The center is moving to the right, it seems.
ROBERTSON: And not only -- I mean, look at what's happening in France as well with the presidential elections there. I mean, part of the narrative
is moving to the right there. You have a more right of center, if you will, right candidate.
And then Le Pen further off to the right of that. So it's all out (inaudible). You have Macron as well, you know, towards the left of that.
But yes, I mean, absolutely, we can see here, by the language that's used, that Rutte has moved to the right.
Now, why is he doing that? Because he needs to and certainly Atika was talking about this earlier. There was a sense in Holland today that maybe
he's going to get a bump because he's done that. But this is what politicians have to do.
And this is what the Dutch electorate feel their politicians have failed to do, which is why the sort of traditional parties have hemorrhaged so much
support. Why there are 28 parties running in these parliamentary elections.
That they haven't answered the core questions and the core worries of the people. So Rutte is tapping into that. We've heard it here as well from
Theresa May in Britain. This move to the right, partly on immigration is certainly sweeping over in Europe.
WARD: So what happens to Europe if the victory goes to Wilders' party?
ROBERTSON: Nothing, but everything. It would be a triumphant victory for him, but no other party is going to form a government with him. He doesn't
become prime minister and he doesn't execute his policies, which would be to -- he has talked about pulling Holland out of the European Union, or at
least making some very significant suggestions.
So that's what would happen. However, if he does this empowers Marine Le Pen in her presidential campaign in nearby France and that's perhaps where
the danger is because then if Le Pen gets any kind of a bounce in this, in the tight-run election, first round April 2nd and May she is also taught
and she could then move towards a Frexit --
WARD: Looking at a domino effect --
ROBERTSON: -- for the European Union.
WARD: Nic Robertson, thank you for your analysis, as always.
Just ahead, does wiretapping still mean wiretapping? A White House spokesman is now explaining what President Donald Trump actually meant when
he made a bombshell allegation against former President Barack Obama.
WARD: There are just hours left for the U.S. Justice Department to comply with a Congressional deadline and hand over proof of President Donald
Trump's explosive wiretapping claims. Mr. Trump accused former President Barack Obama of tapping his phones during last year's campaign, calling him
a bad or sick guy on Twitter.
But a short time ago, a White House spokesman appeared to walk back that allegation. Let's get more now from CNN's senior White House
correspondent, Jim Acosta. Jim, what did you hear?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Clarissa, the White House still has yet to provide any evidence to back up the
president's claims that he was wiretapped by former President Obama during the former 2016 campaign.
But there is a lot of proof around here at the White House here today that the administration officials here who have the job of explain what the
president was talking about are still struggling to so.
ACOSTA (voice-over): President Trump had plenty to say about former President Obama at this conversation on health care at the White House.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: When he left, people liked him. When he was here, people didn't like him so much.
That's the way life goes.
ACOSTA: But asked the president if he has any proof that his predecessor wiretapped the offices at Trump Tower, an allegation he made more than a
week ago --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you all --
ACOSTA: And the room goes quiet. The answers don't get much better from top White House advisers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know whether Trump Tower was wiretapped?
KELLYANNE CONWAY, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR COUNSEL: What I can say is there are many ways to surveil each other now. There was an article this week that
talked about how you can surveil someone through their phones, certainly, through their television sets. Any number of different ways. Microwaves
that turn into cameras, et cetera.
ACOSTA: On CNN's "NEW DAY," White House counselor, Kellyanne Conway, insisted she wasn't suggesting that she had evidence that the president was
being spied on through his appliances or otherwise.
CONWAY: I was answering a question about surveillance techniques generally --
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: He didn't ask you about it generally, though. That's true in the transcript. You may have answered it generally, but you
were asked specifically.
CONWAY: Chris, I'm not Inspector Gadget. I don't believe people are using their microwave to spy on the Trump campaign. However, I'm not in the job
of having evidence. That's what investigations are for.
ACOSTA: The president took to his favorite gadget to bristle at the continuing questions, tweeting, "It is amazing how rude much of the media
is to my very hardworking representatives. Be nice, you will do much better." But even fellow Republicans are demanding answers. On CNN's
"STATE OF THE UNION," Senator John McCain explained the president has two options.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Either retract or to provide the information that the American people deserve because if his predecessor
violated the law, President Obama violated the law, we've got a serious issue here.
ACOSTA: After meeting with FBI Director James Comey, House Speaker Paul Ryan is still waiting to see the proof.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you seen anything to suggest there were wiretaps?
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: No.
ACOSTA: White House officials sounded as if they're starting to walk back the president's accusation.
SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think there's two things that are important about what he said. I think recognizing that it's the -- he
doesn't really think that President Obama went up and tapped his phone personally.
ACOSTA: But Democrats contend the president's wiretapping claims are more about what's bugging him.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY (D), CONNECTICUT: I say that this is all an intentional strategy, right? When the news starts to get bad for the Trump
administration, they, you know, very intentionally and consistently try to say something outrageous.
ACOSTA: In the meantime, intelligence experts say Americans shouldn't worry about hidden cameras in their kitchens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the CIA listening to me through my microwave oven and through my TV and through my cell phone? Are they doing that, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
[16:25:06]ACOSTA: Now, the House Intelligence Committee here in Washington had asked the Trump administration to deliver some kind of evidence to that
panel, by the end of today, and as of this point, Clarissa, that committee has not heard back from the Trump administration. They simply have not
provided any evidence up to Capitol Hill as of yet -- Clarissa.
WARD: OK, and Jim, I want to get your thoughts because this hour, of course, we're hearing the Congressional Budget Office report is out on the
Republicans' health care plan. What's the headline?
ACOSTA: Well, the headline, and you know the Congressional Budget Office is sort of the "good housekeeping" seal of approval. It's a non-partisan
Congressional Budget Office. And when any legislation that has budget implications is talked about up on Capitol Hill, that CBO score, as they
call it, is very important.
And that CBO score has just come out on the House Republican plan to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. The
headline, the CBO says 14 million people would lose their health insurance who are currently covered now under Obamacare by next year, 24 million
people by the year 2026.
Now, the legislation would reduce the deficit so Republicans may be happy about that. But this is going to become exponentially more difficult to
sell in terms of getting this legislation passed here in Washington, Clarissa.
When you have talk about 14 million people losing their health insurance, that is a very big blow to these White House efforts to get this passed in
Washington -- Clarissa.
WARD: Yes. Those are some staggering numbers. Jim Acosta at the White House for us, thank you so much.
Still to come, a heartbreaking report on Syria's children. UNICEF says record numbers are being killed in the war while millions of others are
left scarred for life. We'll speak with UNICEF's deputy executive director, just ahead.
WARD: Welcome back to the show. Let's take a look at the top stories this hour. The Dutch prime minister says his country will never negotiate under
threats from Turkey. It's the latest in an increasingly heated exchange between the two after Turkish government ministers were barred from holding
a rally of ex-patriots in the Netherlands and Turkey's president condemned the Dutch government as the Nazi remnants.
Scotland's first minister is to seek approval for a new independence referendum. Nicola Sturgeon says Scottish voters deserve a choice of
remaining in the European Union as part of an independent nation. It comes a as the British government prepares to the starting gun to leave the E.U.
60 people were killed Sunday after a landslide at a garbage dump outside the capital, where many lived in makeshift homes. Some people are still
missing. It's not clear what caused the landslide.
[16:30:02] And the Ethiopian government says more than 60 people were killed, Sunday, after a landslide at a garbage dump outside the capital
where many lived in makeshift homes. Some people are still missing. It's not clear what caused the landslide.
UNICEF says Syria's children are under siege like never before, calling the depth of their suffering unprecedented. The children's charity issued a
new report saying violence against Syrian children last year was the worst on record since the war began. It says more than 650 children were killed
in 2016 and more than 800 children were forced to fight. Some were forced into terrifying roles as prison guards, executioners, even suicide bombers.
Well, let's get more now from UNICEF's Deputy Executive Director Justin Forsyth. Justin, 20 percent spike in the number of deaths of children.
Help me understand that. How is this possible? What happened that made this year so deadly?
JUSTIN FORSYTH, UNICEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE, DIRECTOR: Well, we had some very brutal besieged areas of like Aleppo, but also other cities and towns
across Syria where there were very intense bombardments of built-up areas, high explosive ordinance which led to many of these deaths.
In Aleppo alone, if we remember back to last September, I think 90 children were killed in a two-week period. But we also know that this 650 number
that we've reported on today, as UNICEF, is probably a huge underestimation. This is where we've cataloged and documented the number of
children that have died or injured or been abused. But probably the numbers are much, much higher and this is just a tip of an iceberg.
WARD: And what's staggering when you read the report is that you realized death is just one of the atrocities and horrors facing these children.
Give us a sense of some of the other key findings of the report.
FORSYTH: Well, I met a family recently who had escaped from Syria into Turkey and they talked about how one on group that come a note from that
door, they become so frighten that they felt they needed to flee, and they've crossed over the border from Syria into Turkey.
And the children had walked across the mine field and that the young girl told me how frightening it was with her and here father, and mother, her
two brothers and sisters lined up crossing this mine field. She hadn't -- she'd been so scared. She thought she was going to die.
When she finally got into Turkey, the children were scarred. Emotionally, they were not sleeping well. They were wetting their beds. They were very
scared of what they'd been through, all the violence and horror.
I also heard stories from two doctors who had operated on children in these underground hospitals in Aleppo during the bombardment. And they talked
about having to choose between which children lived or die, because they had run out of medicines. Now, even the children that survived they have
terrible traumas facing nightmares for the rest of their lives.
WARD: And no sense that it's going to get better anytime soon, is there?
FORSYTH: No. We know there are over 250,000 children living in these besieged areas under constant bombardment, cut off from aid. There are
further 2 million plus children living in very hard-to-reach areas. And that, again, is only part of the story. Many of the children, even who
have fled to safety in neighboring countries are having to work in factories or in the fields to earn enough money to support their children.
So, they might escape the violence, but they're missing out on education. They're having to work for their families to survive. And this war is so
brutal, so horrible, and the children are paying the highest price.
WARD: And some of the hardest parts to read, I think, were talking about children who have been forced to fight on both sides, right?
FORSYTH: Yeah. I mean, terribly. I mean, hard to imagine that children are forced to become suicide bombers, to kill themselves, to blow up other
people. Or in prisons we know, whether they're government or opposition ones, they're forced to torture people. They're recruited and
indoctrinated into these armed groups and they're forced to commit atrocities as a way of bonding them into those armed groups. And we know
increasingly, not just in Syria, but right tragically in Iraq, and actually in Northern Nigeria with Boko Haram, children are forced to commit these
WARD: OK. Justin Forsyth with UNICEF, thank you so much for speaking with us.
Well, to Iraq now and counter-terror forces, there say they have regained control of more strategic positions in Western Mosul as they continue their
push against ISIS. Forces are just hundreds of meters away from a bridge that splits Mosul's old city into two parts. It's near the site where ISIS
leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi first declared his caliphate.
Our very own Ben Wedeman has witnessed the destruction in Mosul, first hand. He said this report from the city's museum, now a scene of mounds of
[16:35:13] BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Ancient treasures that survived the ravages of time fill victim to the folly of man. The remains of statues they need back to the Assyrian
empire more than 2,500 years old lie in pieces on the floor of the Mosul museum.
Two years ago, ISIS militants took sledgehammers and jackhammers to the museum's collection, posting a video of their vandalism on social media.
Characterizing the pre-Islamic inhabitants of Mesopotamia as idol worshipers, and an unidentified man declares the ancient antiquities must
be destroyed, even if they're worth billions of dollars, he says. Iraqi forces battling ISIS in West Mosul recently regained the control of the
(on camera): This is all that remains one of the museums, a lamasu, a winged bull, a symbol of the might of the great Assyrian empire. Not only
did ISIS go to the trouble of breaking apart these statues, but they also chipped away the face. And as you can tell, the battle still rages all
(voice-over): It wasn't all about implementing ISIS's twisted interpretation of Islam. When their cameras weren't rolling, they were
looting the museum. Captain Farris of the Iraqi Federal Police explains why there's a gaping hole in the museum floor.
This vault, he says, contained artifacts that weren't on display. ISIS took them out and sold them outside of Iraq. All, however, is not lost.
Three quarters of the museum's collection was moved to Baghdad before ISIS seized Mosul, because this museum was set for renovation.
As fate would have it, the final joke was on ISIS. Many of the statues they toppled with such gusto were cheap replicas. They were fakes.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, West Mosul.
WARD: After the break, we will have Hala Gorani's exclusive interview with the Dutch Foreign Minister. Stay with us.
WARD: It's a protest in the Netherlands that looks like a scene out of Turkey that has launched an international diplomatic crisis. The Dutch
government refused entry to high-level Turkish officials who were there to rally expats. That move angered the Turkish voters in the Netherlands, who
you see here, took to the streets.
The incident led Turkey's president to compare the Dutch government with the Nazis. The Turkish foreign minister echoed that offensive language in
an interview with CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
[16:40:11] MEVLUT CAVUSOGLU, TURKISH FOREIGN MINISTER: Such attitudes, such policies, obstructions and the violation of the European standards and
the values and the Vienna conventions never happened, never happened since World War II. It didn't happen even during World War II. And it didn't
happen even maybe during the Nazi. So, the policies of the current government and the builders is no difference what happened during the World
War and during the pre-World War II era.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: Well, now we can bring you exclusive reaction from the Dutch foreign minister when he sat down with our own Hala Gorani.
BERT KOENDERS, DUTCH FOREIGN MINISTER: This is outrageous. I think the European Union has made very clear the solidarity to the Netherlands and
that they know that (inaudible) who is these expressions and actions. They are not standing alone here. I think we are trying to defend the rule of
law. Of course, we have certain conditions on the way this happens in our country. We try to respect the Turks. They don't -- that this was this
but it is no way that you should insult people. And, you know, a total nation for being Nazis. We've been the victims of that. It's simply not a
good thing. It's bad and I condemn that.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, how do you deescalate now, because it so tense. I mean, this has been a war of words calling
people Nazis and fascist oppression and you yourself have said this is insulting.
KOENDERS: Well, it is.
GORANI: You just repeated to me that is it's insulting. So, what do you do now, because there's a lot of treat between the two countries? Hundreds
of thousands of Dutch tourists go to Turkey every year. There's --
KOENDERS: Look, I think a lot can be explained also by the referendum in Turkey itself. It's a little bit a sharp referendum. There's a lot of
hard talk on this. There's a lot of emotion on it. I think they have now looked at the Dutch. We are little bit the target and in that context, we
cannot accept to any things that's why I've taken the decisions that we're necessary on the landing rights that even send another minister by car, you
know, while we said this was not a good idea. You view of the situation that we had involved to them, he simply came and that is, of course,
unacceptable. Also, we had to take these decisions.
GORANI: Was it your decision to deny the landing rights?
KOENDERS: Most of the decision of the Dutch government, yes, yes.
KOENDERS: We had no alternative. But, this whole insults in business, I'm not going to be lower myself to that level.
GORANI: Now, when you say deescalate, though, how are you going to deescalate the situation?
KOENDERS: Well, we will see in the next couple of days. I will see what happens. I understand that the Dutch ambassador was on leave in the
Netherlands, it's not welcome at the moment in Turkey. Fortunately, I've seen also that our embassies and consulates can function there.
I think we've had strong European support. This is a problem that you find all over the Europe at the moment. This harsh language, this campaigning,
this dividing of societies, I don't think that's a good thing. So, look, we have taken sharp decisions. I'm ready to do that again. But now I want
to also say let's deescalate. Let's talk.
GORANI: So, have you spoken directly to your counterpart in Turkey?
KOENDERS: Yes, of course, we have spoken. Also over the weekend --
GORANI: -- the comment that he made.
KOENDERS: Well, I think he made them, again, this afternoon.
GORANI: He did on the CNN.
KOENDERS: I'm not going to call every day. But, look, we are foreign ministers. Of course, we have to speak.
GORANI: What was the conversation like when you spoke to him on the phones?
KOENDERS: Well, that was a conversation basically on that situation, on, what was it, Saturday night. And there we tried to find a solution for the
minister to leave the Netherlands. So, it was very practical.
GORANI: For the minister who came in via road, right? But did you discuss the fact that he had accused your government of using fascist
KOENDERS: Well, I have said that it is not have what and really that it is insulting and that it is unacceptable to the Dutch population.
GORANI: And what did he say to that?
KOENDERS: I think he sees that differently. I think he has a view that is not correct. I see that as part of the big campaign now in the Turkey, but
GORANI: So, on the phone with you, you reiterated that he believe you're going to --
KOENDERS: Look, I'm not going to talk about all the content of our phone conversation. But, it's likely as --
GORANI: But you didn't come to an agreement? You didn't come to an agreement.
KOENDERS: Yes, we come to agreements in the fact that the foreign minister left -- I'm sorry, the health minister left the Netherlands.
GORANI: OK. So, anymore deescalation moves here for the upcoming week after that focal, which maybe we sounded tense? I mean, you can correct me
if I'm wrong, but it didn't sound like --
KOENDERS: It was a tense situation. You have a house minister that it comes, in fact, who is out to sovereign immunity on their own to Roto Dam
(ph) in a very tense situation on the ground. Yes, it's of course, not a very good situation. So, then you have to try to find a solution and we
did. But, I'm just telling you, we take sharp measures.
[16:45:03] As a Netherlands, this is our country. We decide on our public safety, but also on the rule of law and democracy. It's now up to all of
us, I think, to make this a reasonable relationship.
GORANI: OK. And if you could save, I mean, obviously we heard from the foreign minister of Turkey today on CNN, if you had something to say to him
now, what would it be --
KOENDERS: No, I don't like discus this --
GORANI: -- to deescalate.
KOENDERS: -- over television, no, no. And I don't think that makes any sense.
KOENDERS: He knows very well that it's not a good thing. That is unacceptable to the Dutch to compare what happened to the horrific Nazi
period in this country. This was -- are unacceptable and that's I can repeat that only.
GORANI: Under what conditions would you allow the foreign minister or any other minister of the government or president or the one to come to Holland
KOENDERS: Well, I think it's now becoming quite impossible, frankly, in this situation I --
GORANI: So, under no condition.
KOENDERS: Well, we have now a situation assessing that is unworkable.
WARD: Well, our own Hala Gorani is in the Hague tonight. Hala, fantastic interview. Why is he saying that they didn't allow the minister to land in
the first place?
GORANI: Well, obviously, he's denying that it has anything to do with the church or accusing the Dutch government of (inaudible) Islamophobia and
that this is a political move ahead of the election. He's saying it was for safety and security. He thinks the Dutch government is allowed to
decide who enters their country.
You heard the minister there refer several times to the Turkish health minister who entered the country via Germany using -- not flying in, but
using a car. She was escorted back, her name is Fatma Kaya, to the border. And this is something also that angered the Turks.
So, you have a situation here where you have two ministers, one attempting to enter the country, the foreign minister himself, another one, a lower
level minister trying to drive in. Both told, "You are not welcome to campaign here. It has to do with safety. It has to do with security. And
if you don't mind, you should allow us to decide who gets to come in our country."
And one of the interesting things that the Dutch foreign minister told me during the sit down interview here in the Hague is that essentially the
Dutch-Turkish citizens, these dual citizens who are entitled to vote in the upcoming referendum in Turkey, they were our citizens. They are Dutch
citizen as well. And, essentially, the access to them, campaign access to them is something that the Dutch government gets to decide, Clarissa.
WARD: All right, Hala Gorani, in the Hague for us. And, Hala, of course, will be anchoring CNN's coverage of the Dutch elections over the next
couple of days from Holland. Thank you, Hala.
You're watching "The World Right Now." You may have heard parents complain about teenagers spending too much time on social media. Well, one school
think that time online can change the world. We'll show you how its students are helping to fight slavery.
WARD: The big day is almost here in just a few hours. CNN helps kickoff "My Freedom Day" on March 14th. We're partnering with young people around
the world for student lead day of actions against modern days slavery. Driving "My Freedom Day" is a simple question, what does freedom mean to
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[16:50:08] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freedom is knowing that you're safe in the real world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For us, freedom is (inaudible) on your own will and choosing your own career.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Freedom to me means the opportunity to live without oppression. Freedom means the ability to live.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: One school in Geneva is joining the fight against human trafficking. Our Eleni Giokos went along to one of their sessions.
ELENI GIOKOS, CNNMONEY AFRICA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What does freedom mean to you? For these students in Switzerland, freedom is
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freedom means being able to pursue what you want without imposing yourselves on the freedom of the other.
REINE RADWAN, STUDENT, INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL OF GENEVA: To be able to feel safe wherever you are in the world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) does beyond the human rights.
GIOKOS (voice-over): But in the relative of safety of Geneva are being exposed to the dark realities of human trafficking. Rasha Hammad, founder
of Youth Underground has created educational programs and schools around the world.
RASHA HAMMAD, FOUNDER AND CEO, YOUTH UNDERGROUND: As an all international communities, the kids are still in a bubble. And even us as adult that we
are -- we tend to be in above all. So, it's very difficult to crack that.
GIOKOS (voice-over): An estimated 5.5 million children around the world are victims of human trafficking with shocking stories that resonates.
RADWAN: My family is from Syria and they go through a lot of bad things over there, especially women and men. It's so easy for them to be targets.
HARRY ZINZALLAN, STUDENT, INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL OF GENEVA: Well, from Bulgaria. It's insane because you have so many changes (inaudible) who are
being trap to the countries like Turkey as well as into Greece.
SHRINILET BUCHE, STUDENT, INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL OF GENEVA: I knew that a lot of people were trafficked as young as one to two years old into the sex
trade, but I didn't know that it was such a global thing.
GIOKOS (voice-over): Now, students are hoping to catalyze their resources for change.
RADWAN: I think that we should use that privilege to be able to give a voice to those who don't have it.
ZINZALLAN: We're so far away from what happens around the world and whether it's in a continent like Africa, whether its part of Asia, it's
carried there for us where we live. As mentioned, we're in a bubble. We don't have -- we have the means to be able to protect their selves.
BUCHE: I believe that because of Youth Underground, it's -- it give me a way of being more aware of my surroundings. And it helps me help these
people who I know that some of them and, especially, that majority of them are stocked in a poverty trap.
GIOKOS (voice-over): One way to reconnect and connect with others is to initiate an echo on social media.
HAMMAD: Now, there's Snapshot, there's the Facebook, there's all sorts of ways that they do that. They create different groups. They travel
together. They decide to attend different events and talk about trafficking.
GIOKOS (on camera): What are you trying to do with the knowledge that you've gotten from the Youth Underground program?
RADWAN: It's always about the human contact and trying to help people, because -- I mean, even if it's a cheesy saying one person, you can just
help one person and it does make a difference.
BUCHE: My future is now elevated because of the school in giving a platform to trace my voice and to be more influential over people.
GIOKOS (voice-over): The Youth Underground program is galvanizing a new generation of activists by using multiple platforms to engage students
where emotions join to stay in the classroom.
Eleni Giokos, CNN, Geneva.
WARD: We want to hear what freedom means to you, too. Post the photo or video using the #MYFREEDOMDAY.
Now, you might recall a video we showed you on Friday that went viral over the weekend, showing two young children wandering into our room while their
father is in the middle of a live BBC interview. Well, now, the identity of the woman who rushes in to take the children away is a top trending
topic on line.
Joining me now here in London with more on this is our very own Samuel Burke. I mean, Samuel --
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I can't stop laughing even still.
WARD: -- is it the nanny? Is it the wife? Who is she?
BURKE: What were truly interesting here is that a lot of the media got it wrong and a lot people will think that it's either the wife or the nanny
based on what they read in the media. The answer is that it's his wife, Jung-a Kim.
But, the reason that this matter because a lot people had spoken out on social and said, "Listen, this is actually the picture of the family day
you're seeing from their Facebook page right there." They were take a very happy family whether on video or in a picture. But people are saying that
this is actually some unconscious bias that people have they see a woman who is not the same race as the husband and assumed that she's the help
BURKE: So it started this hash tag called "NOTTHENANNY" on social media. We actually have some tweets. We can show you people who are sharing
stories similar to this. Well, you see a woman there who's not the same color as her child, #NOTTHENANNY.
[16:55:02] And people sharing stories about how this happen in their everyday life. They take their kids out. They go places. They get on
planes and people assumed that they're the help and not the parent of these children. So I think it's interesting, because it's a great chance to see
this video, again. They talk about this problem now, a lot of people face, and some unconscious bias when you see couples that are not of the same
WARD: I'm really embarrassed to admit that I assumed it was the nanny, not because of the race issue, but because when you saw her hand grabbing to
close that door, you thought she seemed like she was in a panic.
BURKE: I thought the same exact thing, and I saw her face like that. She looked like a woman who was afraid for her job, but very impressive how
they kept their cool the whole time pushing the kid back there. But I do admit that I felt the same thing.
WARD: So, I guess the real question is, why hasn't this family emerged? We've heard nothing from them. Where are they? When are they going to
catch in on their 15 minutes?
BURKE: Nothing from Professor Robert Kelly. I checked his Twitter feed right before I came on set with you. They have not said a word since the
BBC asked them to use the video clip and we don't see that they have replied. Although, clearly, everyone from the BBC, the CNN is using it.
Listen, he's a very serious professor, very well respected. It doesn't look like he's the type of person who would cash in on this type of thing,
although you can imagine some great television ads. You know, the dad trying to work, the kids rushing in, and then they try (inaudible), but I
think he's just trying to keep it serious.
WARD: Well, I think that -- exactly. He works in international relations. He's a university professor.
BURKE: You know those folks.
WARD: But, still, I'm like, come on, we can all have a laugh about it.
BURKE: Yeah. It's a great attention that you can bring it back to his cause, which is studying, you know, the issues on the Korean peninsula so
WARD: Exactly. All right, Samuel Burke, thank you so much for joining us.
Well, as we told you at the top of our show, it has been a busy day here in the British Parliament. Earlier, the House of Commons rejected two key
amendments that were suggested by the Upper House, sending it back to the House of Lords in the last few minutes. The Lords have started debating
the bill again. And we will, of course, be bringing you any developments when we get them on CNN.
This has been "The World Right Now." Thank you so much for watching. "Quest Means Business" is up next.