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White House Pushes Back On Health Care Assessment; DOJ Asks For More Time To Collect Wiretap Evidence; Spicer on Wiretapping; Cummings Responds to CBO Report; Fewer Insured under GOP Plan. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 14, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. in New York. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We start with the fate of the Republican effort to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act, as many in the Republican Party are now pushing back against new numbers that show the effects of their bill.

Among the highlights from the Congressional Budget Office, 24 million Americans would lose health care over the next 10 years; 14 million of them lose it by next year alone.

As you can also see, premiums will go down for some, up for others. Good news for younger Americans but a bigger burden for older Americans who could be forced to pay 25 percent more.

There will also be a positive effect on the national debt. The CBO says the bill saves $37 billion in government spending over the next 10 years.

The White House is pushing back on the numbers. We're going to hear more of that from the press secretary, Sean Spicer. He's going to have his daily briefing. That's coming up at the top of the next hour.

But, right now, the president is meeting with the deputy crown prince and defense minister of Saudi Arabia. This video feeding in, just moments ago, from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Very nice people.

DEPUTY CROWN PRINCE AND DEFENSE MINISTER, SAUDI ARABIA: We hope so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Very nice people, the president apparently looking at the news media. The reporters, the pool, were in there with the Mohammed bin Salman Abdulaziz Al Saud, also the defense minister of Saudi Arabia. They're now having lunch with other senior aides, including the vice president, Mike Pence, also in the room, Senior adviser, Jared Kushner; chief strategist, Steve Bannon; and the national security adviser, General H.R. McMaster. They're all having lunch. We're going to see video from that luncheon shortly. We'll bring it to you, of course.

In the meantime, let's bring in our White House Correspondent Jim Acosta. He's joining us from the White House. And our Congressional Correspondent Phil Mattingly joining us from Capitol Hill.

Jim, what you hearing, first of all, the reaction from the White House to these Congressional Budget Office numbers?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we should point out in the moment you just showed everybody a few moments ago, the president sitting down with the deputy crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, here at the White House. The president was asked a question about that CBO score that came out yesterday, that you just talked about to our viewers.

The president did not bite on that question. And the press was promptly escorted out of the room. The chief strategist, Steve Bannon, even added a let's roll, as the press was ushered out of the room there, Wolf.

But I can tell you, from talking to a senior Republican source that is very much involved in this process right now, that they do acknowledge that these headlines were, quote, "terrible" yesterday. That this is probably a, quote, "low point" in the process.

So, obviously, internally, privately, they're not feeling all that great about that CBO score that came out yesterday. But, at the same time, the same source is telling me that they are still confident they can get this done.

The president is meeting, later on this afternoon, with the CEO of Anthem Health Care, one of the health care giants in this country. And then, he's going to be on the phone with the speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, later on this afternoon.

But no question about it, Wolf. When you have a headline like this come out like we saw yesterday, that is pretty disruptive to this process.

And you also have the White House and the speaker's office not exactly on the same page.

You had the HHS secretary, Tom Price, the OMB director, Mick Mulvaney, slamming the CBO report yesterday and this morning.

And yet, you had the speaker of the House on another network, saying that he was encouraged by the report.

And so, they are trying to read into this report what they wish. But no question about it, Wolf, they still have an uphill battle to climb. BLITZER: They certainly do. And let's talk about the uphill battle

on Capitol Hill. Phil, you're there. The reaction over these past, what, nearly 24 hours since the report was released, clearly mixed.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question about it. But, look, I do think there's almost a palpable sense of uneasiness in talking to Republican senators throughout the course of this morning.

You have to recognize, Wolf, that many of them looked at their hometown papers as they were delivered to their offices this morning and saw the blaring headline, 24 million uninsured. And they recognize that is a bad headline going forward.

But I think it's worth noting, going forward, that a lot of the folks over in the Senate, the House isn't in session today, don't feel like they're as much a part of this process.

And they will get their opportunity, as the strategy has been designed by House Speaker Paul Ryan, by the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, to have an amendment process on the Senate floor. That's when you talk to Republican senators where they feel like they can make changes, so long as the bill gets over here.

Now, when it comes to the House, no question at all, the headline has created problems. They already had a jittery conference, House moderates wary of that topline number. House conservatives wanting it to be even firmer in what it does to Medicaid expansion going forward.

[13:05:07] Here's what I'm told. A Republican leadership aide tells me Speaker Ryan's strategy is unchanged. The process going forward, Wolf, is they don't plan major changes or any changes to the bill.

It's expected to get to the House floor as soon as next week. Their goal right now is to, with the president's help, try and muster the 216 votes they need to get this over to the Senate. Almost muscle it through, if you will.

That's the goal going forward. They don't want to make major changes right now. The big question, though, as the House starts to return tomorrow, is do they actually have the votes?

There's no question, when I talk to individuals that are involved in this process, that there is work to do, work the speaker will have to do, work the White House will have to do as well, Wolf.

And the question is can they get the work done in time for when this bill hits the floor to actually get the majority they need to even move it over to the Senate -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, normally, the majority is 218 but there are some vacant seats. That's why they only need 216 in order to get it passed. We'll see if they have that number.

Jim, on another important issue, the Department of Justice has now asked for more time on the investigation -- ACOSTA: Right.

BLITZER: -- into the president's unsubstantiated claim that Trump Tower in New York City was wiretapped, and order to be wiretapped by President Obama.

While White House -- the White House -- while the White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, now saying the press shouldn't necessarily take those claims made by President Trump too literally.

Anything further today from the White House?

ACOSTA: No, Wolf. But I think this question is going to come up during the briefing once again, and mainly because the Department of Justice, as you said, asked the House Intelligence Committee for more time.

They're going to be given more time, from what we understand, from talking to the House Intelligence Committee, until next Monday when a hearing is scheduled on this.

But the House Intelligence Committee, keep in mind, led by Republicans, warning the Trump administration, we need to have evidence by next Monday or we're going to ask about this at this hearing.

And if we don't have it, we may have to resort to what they're calling a, quote, "compulsory measures" or a compulsory process in order to extract that evidence from the Trump administration.

But, Wolf, as you know from the last nine or 10 days that we've been going over this, the White House has not provided one shred of evidence to back up the president's claim, at this point. And that's why you heard the White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, yesterday saying, well, when the president was talking about wiretapping in quotes, he was really talking about broader surveillance measures.

And you had Kellyanne Conway over the weekend speculating about the various things the intelligence community can do to spy on people through their cell phones devices or their appliances or whatever.

And so, the question, I think, is going to, again, be today, Wolf, where is the evidence? Do you have any evidence? By next Monday, do you plan to present any evidence to the House Intelligence Committee? And, at this point, there's just no indication whatsoever that they'll ever have any.

BLITZER: Yes. And the compulsory process would probably need subpoenas --

ACOSTA: That's right.

BLITZER: -- for that -- for that information if that information is even available.

All right, Jim Acosta, Phil Mattingly, guys, thanks very much. Republican leaders are downplaying the Congressional Budget Office

report on the Obamacare replacement plan.

Joining us now to discuss that and more, Republican Congressman Tom Garrett of Virginia. He's a member of both the House Foreign Affairs and Homeland Security Committees. Congressman, thanks for joining us.

REP. TOM GARRETT JR. (R), VIRGINIA: Wolf, it's my pleasure. How are you?

BLITZER: All right. So, let's react -- get your reaction. The Congressional Budget Office report, as you know, says 14 million people would be uninsured under this new Republican plan within the next year, by 2018; 24 million would be uninsured by 2026, within a decade.

You've been critical of the bill. If the speaker, Paul Ryan, doesn't allow for major changes, will you vote for it?

GARRETT: Right now, I'm a no. I'm a firm no. I candidly don't know how we get to 216.

But let's look at the paradigm. We talked about coverage. Let's look at access to care because that's what the argument should be about.

And, right now, what you've got is people who have coverage who can't afford to pay their deductibles, therefore they don't have care.

What we need to do is find a plan that actually gives Americans access to affordable care as opposed to a piece of paper with a deductible and premium they can't afford.

BLITZER: Do you believe the speaker will have the 216 votes necessary? Because a lot of your conservative colleagues are saying what you just said, they can't vote for this.

GARRETT: No, I don't -- I don't -- you know, I mean, I respect Speaker Ryan and what he's trying to do here. It's a tough task.

But there's a couple major sticking points, certainly we're rewarding bad behavior in the Medicaid expansion states. Also, it's sort of creating an entitlement by virtue of where we place the tax credit in the process.

The good news is that we'd reduce the deficit by a third of a trillion dollars so that's something.

And I do think there are a lot of stand-alone measures that are moving forward, McCarron-Ferguson repeal, allowing small businesses to pool, to create numbers for care that will go through.

But the bill, reat large (ph), I have a tough time fathoming how you get to 216 right now.

BLITZER: If the bill fails, do you think President Trump will be blamed for the failure or will the blame go to the speaker, Paul Ryan? [13:10:02] GARRETT: We don't -- I mean, look, if -- and President

Trump said this the other day and I think that Speaker Ryan would say the same thing. If we wanted to play politics with America's health care, we just wouldn't do anything, because it's absolutely undeniable that Obamacare is in a death spiral.

And if we just let the status quo go, we're going to see what real pain and suffering looks like when people who have coverage on paper but can't afford to pay their inflated deductibles, can't get the treatment that they -- that they deserve.

So, we're trying to do good here. If this bill fails, that doesn't mean that we don't circle back around and work on another bill. In fact, I'm sure we will.

And, again, the easy political thing to do would be to just let the wheels fall off the Obamacare disaster. That's not what we're here to do.

BLITZER: Do you think your concerns, the concerns of your conservative colleagues, are being heard by the White House?

And correct me if I'm wrong, you were supposed to go to the White House for a pizza and bowling event with the president tonight. I take it that's been canceled. Is that right?

GARRETT: The date is going to be moved because of some of the folks having trouble flying in. We're not going to the White House to get whipped, to get pushed into line.

We're going to the White House to discuss what our concerns are with the president and his administration. He has proven to be an adept listener. And I think he wants to get something good done.

So, where you start is not always where you finish. And this is working with the guy who wrote the book, "The art of the deal."

So, we think there's room for movement and we can get something that works for America.

BLITZER: When is that pizza and bowling event going to be rescheduled for?

GARRETT: This I do not yet know. I only learned that it was going to be moved about five minutes before going on the air with you.

BLITZER: And so, if you go to the White House and speak to the president of the United States, what will be your bottom line message to him on the future of health care?

GARRETT: Well, number one, you need to recognize that individuals will exercise free will. They certainly did under Obamacare with the individual mandate where so many people chose to pay the penalty. We need to recognize that that's not only inherent to human nature but inherent to a free state. We need to create access to care that's actually care as opposed to coverage because that's a false paradigm that we've seen throughout the Obamacare story. That look at how many more people have coverage. Well, coverage doesn't equal care, if you can't pay your deductible. And that's the glide path we've been on.

So, there are a lot of ideas. I think there are some good pieces to the Ryan plan. There are also a lot of stand-alone bills that aren't getting a whole lot of attention in the press that will help open up markets and create better access to affordable care.

So, we're moving forward. The easy thing to do, again, would just be to let this thing explode on its own. We're not going to do that. We're going to do what's right for America.

BLITZER: While I have you, Congressman, let me get your quick reaction. There's talk about the unsubstantiated wiretap claims made by President Trump, what, 10 days ago in those series of four tweets.

The White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, says the president wasn't really talking about actual wiretapping in those allegations against President Obama. He was talking about broader surveillance. Let me play the clip. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN SPICER, U.S. WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He doesn't really think that President Obama went up and tapped his phone personally. I think --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does he think?

SPICER: But I think there's a -- there is no question that the Obama administration, that there were actions about surveillance and other activities that occurred in the 2016 election. That is a widely- reported activity that occurred back then.

The president used the word wiretap in quotes to mean broadly surveillance and other activities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What's your reaction to that comment? Is the White House backing away from what the president initially claimed?

GARRETT: Well, I can't speak for the White House. But, I mean, we know to a meta physical certainty that there were coms (ph) intercepts. We know to a meta physical certainty "The New York Times" wrote about intercepts of conversations prior to June -- or January 20th when the administration changed.

I guess what we need to get to the bottom of is where they got the coms intercepts and --

BLITZER: But let me interrupt for a -- but, Congressman, if there are intercepts of communications involving Russian officials, for example, wiretapping Russian officials, monitoring phone calls from Russian officials serving here in the United States, that's one thing.

But for the president to say the president, the former President Obama, ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower in order to wiretap on the can -- the then candidate and then the president-elect, Donald Trump, that's very, very, very much something else. Correct?

GARRETT: Absolutely. But do we not know that there were two separate applications to a FISA court for surveillance that would fall within the scope of what we think is being (INAUDIBLE.)

BLITZER: But that's different -- but that's different than ordering the wiretapping of Donald Trump as a candidate. There is no evidence that President Obama said, let's listen in on the conversations of Donald Trump. You agree, right?

GARRETT: Not that I'm have -- not that I have access to, no. But we do know is there was surveillance that spanned into the Trump campaign team. And was it done intentionally or was it accidental and intentional? That's what we ought to get to the bottom of.

BLITZER: But if that surveillance involved Russian activities, that would be very different than spying on American citizens.

GARRETT: Right. Which goes back to the question I asked which is, was there surveillance that overlapped on the Trump campaign, if that's what happened, intentional or incidental?

[13:15:08] If it was intentional, there's malfeasance. If it was incidental, then that's just the way the game is played. We don't know that yet.

BLITZER: Congressman - all right, congressman - well, let's get some answers. If there is evidence, we'd love to see it.

Congressman Tom Garrett, thanks very much for joining us.

GARRETT: Absolutely. My pleasure. And God bless.

BLITZER: All right, thank you.

Coming up, we're going to talk to a Democratic congressman who said, and I'm quoting now, "this Republican bill is not health care legislation. It's an annihilation." Representative Elijah Cummings of Maryland, there you see him, he's coming up next. We've got lots of questions for him.

Also, what he thinks of the White House now walking back the president's wiretapping claims against the former president, Barack Obama. That's coming up next.

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BLITZER: The estimates are now in for the Republican replacement for Obamacare. And the numbers released by the Congressional Budget Office, there's good and there's bad, depending on which side of the aisle you're on. The House speaker, Paul Ryan, says it exceeded his expectations.

[13:20:00] Joining us now, Democratic congressman Elijah Cummings, he's from Maryland, the ranking member of the House Oversight Committee.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS, : Wolf, good to be with you.

BLITZER: All right, so let me get your reaction. What were your expectations? How did the Congressional Budget Office report do?

CUMMINGS: The CBO report was exactly what - pretty much what I expected it to be. Fourteen million people losing their insurance next year and then another 24 - the total of 24 million by 2026. That didn't surprise me.

The thing that does bother me, though, Wolf, is how the Republicans are playing with these numbers. And I want - you know, my message to them would be honest - would be to be honest with the American people. They claim that they were going to repeal and replace. President Trump talked about lowering the cost of insurance and having better insurance, and everybody would be insured and nobody would be harmed. And this proposal does just the opposite.

And, again, Wolf, when you're dealing with a person's health insurance, you can't get too much more personal than that. And I'm just hoping that they will be honest with the American people. Lay out exactly what this proposal does. And I think that it will be soundly rejected in the House. I believe that this proposal will also be soundly rejected in the Senate, because it does not bring coverage and care to the American people.

BLITZER: In the House, as you know, a lot of the opposition - certainly the Democrats are all opposed, but you guys are in the minority - the opposition comes from conservative Republicans. We just heard from one of them, Congressman Garrett, who says he can't vote for this because it goes too far. Some have called it Obamacare-lite. The CBO says 24 million Americans, as you know, will lose their coverage over the next ten years. But the arguments from the Republicans is, many of those people, they won't - they'll no longer be forced to buy health insurance, and that's their right as Americans. They don't want to buy health insurance, they don't have to buy health insurance. What do you say to that argument?

CUMMINGS: Well, anybody who knows anything about this issue knows, that in the end, Wolf, we all are going to pay. And this is a moral issue. People have, I believe, a right to health insurance. They have a right to stay alive. They have a right to be able to live a healthy life. And it is getting down to a moral issue.

And when I look at the proposal that has been presented by the Republicans, what I see is - I hear all this hocus-pocus language that they talk about, well, you're not going to be able - we're worried about cost, but then they don't seem like they're that much worried about coverage. And so what I'm saying to them is that the American people need coverage. And they need access to health care. And so don't - but I'm begging them not to play games with this, because, again, it's very personal.

And so what we have to do, Wolf, is follow the money. We've got a situation here where they're giving a major tax cut to folks, to the tune of $600 billion, our more wealthier folks in our country. But at the same time, slashing something like Medicaid.

BLITZER: All right.

CUMMINGS: And Medicaid, of course, helps some of our most vulnerable citizens. And so, again, if we're honest about it, we're going to - at some point we're going to pay. Somebody's going to pay. So we might as well come up with a - they should come up with a proposal or basically fix - if they want to fix the Affordable Care Act, they need to do that. But I hope that President Trump will not run around talking about a proposal that really does - take away from people's opportunities to stay well and to be well.

BLITZER: The secretary of Health and Human Services, Tom Price, says, "I firmly believe that nobody will be worse off financially in the process that we are going through." Your reaction to that?

CUMMINGS: I have listened to just about every interview that Price has made, Secretary Price has made, and he has - I have - I have not heard him say that there will not be a lot of people losing their coverage. You know, they tried to attack the CBO, which I felt was very unfortunate. They are - the numbers are the numbers.

But, Wolf, there's another thing here. I think people forget that when they look at their numbers, these numbers, they forget there is somebody watching us right now, Wolf, right now who is sitting in some hospital, maybe in Toledo or somewhere in our country, with chemo dripping down - into their veins, trying to figure out whether or not they're going to have insurance next year, whether they're going to have insurance the year after that, and whether or not they're going to be able to survive. There's some mother worried about her child being able to be treated for opioid addiction and knowing that Medicaid is being sliced and mental health is being sliced with regard to these proposals.

[13:25:21] That's why I'm saying, Wolf, this is a moral issue. And Republicans have got to stop this era of not always telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. We need to take care of our own. President Trump constantly talks about getting America back to the way it used to be. I don't buy that. I think that we're all moving towards a more perfect union.

And that more perfect union is about taking care of each other and helping each other in times of need. All of us are the walking wounded. All of us are going to need insurance. So we might as well take this moment that we have and create the best opportunity that we can, using the American people's tax dollars in a wise, effective, and efficient way so that we can stay well. You cannot have a strong country when you've got so many people being sick and not being able to get health care. BLITZER: Congressman Elijah Cummings of Maryland, thanks for joining

us.

CUMMINGS: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Tomorrow night, the Health and Human Services secretary, Tom Price, will be taking your questions on health care in a live CNN town hall. Dana Bash and I will moderate. That's tomorrow night, 9:00 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN.

President Trump is having lunch with the deputy crown prince and defense minister of Saudi Arabia at the White House right now. Key members of his team are there as well. This video, by the way, just came in. Let's listen in.

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BLITZER: You see the deputy crown prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman Abdulaziz al Saud. He's also the defense minister. He's a young man. Clearly very, very important in the U.S./Saudi relationship. You saw the president's top aides there in the dining room as well. Much more on that story coming up.

Also coming up, the secretary of state accused of using a secret e- mail alias and not disclosing it to investigators while he was working at Exxon Mobil. A live report from the State Department, that's next.

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