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Reported Gas Attack In Syria; New Reports Detail Trump Associates' Russia Contacts; Accusations Against Susan Rice; New Reports Detail Trump Associates' Russia Contacts; 70 People Dead From Suspected Gas Attack In Syria; Activist Groups Blame Syrian Govt. For Gas Attack; Syrian Govt. Denies Carrying Out Gas Attack; McCain Blasts Trump Administration Over Syria Policy; Kinzinger: Removing Assad From Power Must Be Priority. Aired 1-1:30 p.m. ET

Aired April 04, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'll Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

President Trump says he's revving up the U.S. economy by slashing red tape here in Washington. The president spoke to a round table of business leaders just a little while ago. He wrapped up a speech to building trade union leaders just a few minutes ago as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't want to be the president of the world. I'm the president of the United States. And from now on, it's going to be America first.

I've spent my life working side by side with American builders and now you have a builder as your president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Our Senior White House Correspondent Jeff Zeleny, he's joining us from the White House. Jeff, in that roundtable with CEOs, the president also predicted a very interesting talk, his words, with China's president, at the end of this week down at Mar-a-Lago, his estate in Palm Beach. And he promised a major haircut, his words once again, on the Dodd-Frank financial regulations.

Is this the chance for him, perhaps, to try to move the focus of his efforts back to jobs, the economy, because he's been diverted in all sorts of other areas in recent weeks?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I think that's right. And that sound you hear, today here at the White House, is the sound of the White House trying to change the subject away from Russia. Away from a cloud of controversies that has hung over this administration, most of them self-inflicted.

But the White House is trying to do a specific strategy here of putting the president back before approving audiences, trying -- you know, having that applause ring out in the room here to talk about infrastructure and other things.

But we didn't hear any specifics from this president about an infrastructure bill, how they would get any of these things accomplished.

Basically, what the president was just talking about a few moments ago were, you know, very -- you know, the exact same words we heard on the campaign trail last year. But it still allows the White House to show action and motion and move beyond this.

But the president also was trying to remind voters why they elected him. And, as you said, it's cutting some of that government bureaucracy. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We want clean air and we want clean water. But we shouldn't have to get the approvals from 16 different agencies for almost the same thing.

So, we have a country with tremendous potential. We have the greatest people on earth, but we have to use that potential and we have to let those people do their thing.

So, good luck everybody. Enjoy yourselves. You're my friends. You're amazing people. And we're going to put you to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, there you hear the president talking to a group of labor union leaders and CEOs, as well, earlier in the day.

But, again, Wolf, a very, very friendly audience here. Not talking about health care at all which was the focus of the White House earlier this morning, trying to revive that health care bill. In neither of the public speeches or addresses the president has made so far yet today have they uttered a single word of that. You know, they -- you know, it's a recognition of how difficult that is.

But, Wolf, more than anything, they're trying to change the subject here even as Russia, of course, remains a huge focus of this administration.

BLITZER: And, also, what's going on in Syria. We heard from the president twice today so far. No mention from the president of Syria, the gas attack that was reported today. Hundreds of people killed and injured, including a lot of children.

The White House, though, is responding to this deadly chemical attack.

ZELENY: Wolf, the White House is responding through the press secretary, Sean Spicer, who held a briefing for us just a short time ago. And he called the act reprehensible and he said that, you know, this could not be an act of any civilized society. So, the -- you know -- but, then, he went on to blame the Obama administration's red line in Syria and said that this is, sort of, a function of what this administration is left to deal with here. But very strong words calling it reprehensible.

And throughout the administration, the secretary of states, the ambassador to the U.N., Nikki Haley, have said in recent days that President Assad really must go. But we have not yet heard from the president himself, President Trump, at all on that, Wolf.

And I think so struck by a line that the president, then candidate, Trump said so often last year. I want to be the president of the United States, not the president of the world.

Wolf, on a day where we are seeing those gruesome images, those grisly images from Syria, he, in fact, cannot just be the president of the United States. You know, the -- it's a striking, sort of, departure here. He has responsibilities for the world.

[13:05:02][ But he was meeting with his national security advisers this morning. The administration, of course, is, you know, pursuing their next steps here. But Sean Spicer told us, again a short time ago, this president would not telegraph his actions to the world what they plan to do here.

But, again, we did not hear from president Trump himself on this -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, well, the day has still got a few hours left. Jeff Zeleny over at the White House, thanks very much.

Our other big story today, both the House and Senate Intelligence Committees investigating Russia and attacking, meddling in the U.S. presidential election. They're back at work. The Senate is conducting closed-door interviews beginning next hour, while the House is trying to get its Russia investigation also back on track.

Let's go to our Senior Congressional Reporter Manu Raju. He's up on Capitol Hill just outside today's House Intelligence Committee meeting. What are you hearing about the latest, Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, Wolf, we're learning now that the House and Senate Intelligence Committees will actually get access to that information that Adam Schiff, the ranking Democrat of the committee, and the chairman, Devin Nunes, saw separately at the White House.

That surveillance information that Chairman Nunes raised concerns about, some incidental collection of information of potentially Trump campaign. Trump transition officials talking with foreign entities during the time of the transition. That information has only been seen by Nunes and Schiff. Now, Adam Schiff saying, just moments ago in his statement, that the full committees will actually see the information.

Now, we're also told that before a meeting of the House Intelligence Committee that just broke up, a meeting with Egyptian President El SiSi. There was actually a meeting of House Democrats before this meeting.

They actually discussed surveillance information that Schiff had and Nunes saw privately. They talked about some of the contents of that information which is classified information. So, we're going to learn more about it, at least the members are going to learn more about this.

Now, this comes as, Wolf, there is the efforts on both the Senate and House Intelligence Committees to really pick up the investigations that have been going on.

On the Senate House side, there has been an agreement, we are told, from -- about which witnesses to interview as part of this investigation.

I had a chance to catch up with Chairman Devin Nunes. I tried to ask him specifically about the investigation as well as his controversy. He didn't want to respond to some questions. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Can you just stop for a second. I have just -- it'll take just one quick second.

REP. DEVIN NUNES (R), CALIFORNIA, CHAIRMAN, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: No. No, I've got to get into the --

RAJU: What do you think about this idea of giving Flynn immunity.

NUNES: I've got a hearing starting here, a conference.

RAJU: Do you still stand by the notion that he is a whistle blower? That your source was a whistle blower?

(ENDE VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, that last comment about Nunes actually calling Paul Ryan last week, the House speaker, that his source that gave him that information was a whistle blower. We've since learned that some White House officials were involved in helping him access that information.

I asked Paul Ryan earlier about that contention, does he still believe Devin Nunes? He does. He says he's expressing full confidence.

Now, Wolf, I talked to another member of the House Intelligence Committee, that's Peter King of New York, who talked about how this committee that has been gridlocked seems to be moving forward because of an agreement over which witnesses to interview. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: It's going forward, this basic agreement on the witness list. RAJU: So, there is an agreement, what, on Flynn, Carter Page, Manafort?

KING: Well, yes, you have to ask -- I don't want to be jumping the gun here. But I think if you ask the chairman and the ranking member, you'll see there is general agreement on the witness list. And from what I know, every individual who's been discussed will be called as a witness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, Wolf, I also had a chance to catch up with Chairman Richard Burr, the Republican chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. And I asked him about the interviews that are happening on the Senate side. These are interviews with Intelligence community officials, over the last couple of days, private interviews.

He said this. He said that we have -- he said we learned a lot so far. We've got a lot of people to interview. And we'll process those in the normal course of the committee investigation.

And, Wolf, that's going to happen all before those big interviews come forward, those Trump associates where they're expecting to talk to in the upcoming weeks -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, lots of major developments unfolding. Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill, thanks very much.

Congressman Adam Schiff, the Ranking Member of the House Intelligence Committee. He's standing by to join us live later this hour. We'll discuss the details of their meetings that have just been going on, the classified documents he viewed at the White House, and more. My conversation with Adam Schiff, that's coming up.

As the Russian meetings move forward in Congress, the Trump administration says the focus should be on the leaking of names now. President Obama's national security advisor, Susan Rice, is firing back at accusations she unmasked the identity of Trump associates. Here's what she said just a little while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN RICE, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: The allegation is that somehow Obama administration officials utilized intelligence for political purposes. That's absolutely false.

[13:10:00] There were occasions when I would receive a report in which a U.S. person was referred to. Name not provided. Just U.S. person. And sometimes in that context, in order to understand the importance of the report and assess its significance, it was necessary to find out or request the information as to who U.S. official was.

ANDREA MITCHELL, MSNBC HOST: Did you leak the name of Mike Flynn?

RICE: I leaked nothing to nobody. And never have and never would. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, let's discuss this and more with our panel. Our CNN Correspondent Jessica Schneider is with us; April Ryan, White House Correspondent for American Urban Radio Networks, making her debut, by the way, as a CNN Political Analyst. Welcome, April. And our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger. Not making her debut as our CNN Chief Political Analyst.

What do you make of, first of all, the accusations that are now being leveled against Susan Rice, President Obama's national security adviser and her response that we heard just now?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, the accusations are that she was leaking these names of people in the Trump transition for political purposes. That she accumulated them and leaked them because she was interested in doing political damage to Donald Trump.

I think today, you know, she completely denied it, as she did to a spokesman last night, to Jim Sciutto. And she tried to make the point that there is no equivalence between unmasking this information and leaking it.

And she explained that the reason you unmask information is you're trying to understand the context of what it is you are reading. What she did not say is whether anyone in the Trump administration or transition was unmasked.

When Andrea Mitchell asked her a question about Flynn, and the question was, did you seek the names of people in the -- involved in the Trump transition? She said, absolutely not. And she said I leaked nothing to nobody and never have. But I think if Susan Rice expected that this was going to end the controversy, I doubt that it will.

BLITZER: I'm sure it's not going to end the controversy. April, you covered eight years of the Obama presidency, including Susan Rice. What was your reaction to what you just heard?

APRIL RYAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, AMERICAN URBAN RADIO NETWORKS: Well, I think it was interesting to hear Susan Rice come from a point of, I am the national security adviser. Not only am I the national security adviser, but other people have done this in this role before. And the information that she said, I received the information to find out what was going on. But the fact that the information came directly to her, no one else.

Also, the fact that this situation is growing by the day. It's got leg -- it's got legs. But the problem is that this could wind up going for a hearing. And she says she doesn't want to step into that scenario, at this point.

But what we have to see is that, again, like Gloria said, this is not political. This is something that she did in efforts to protect this nation. It was something in her purview as national security adviser. And it leaves the question to me, it gives me the question to ask now, does this administration actually understand what was in the scope of the national security adviser's purview as they are making these accusations to her as this is something that she did to protect the nation. So, that's a question that's coming out of this to me.

BLITZER: Let's not lose sight, Jessica, of the bigger picture, the investigation into Russian meddling in the U.S. presidential election. There's a report -- BuzzFeed has a report today about a meeting between a former Trump campaign adviser, Carter Page, and a Russian spy. You've been doing some reporting on this. What are you learning?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, I've talked to Carter Page. He admits that, yes, in fact, he met with a Russian spy in 2013. But he says, at the time, he didn't know he was a Russian spy. He thought that he was simply working for the United Nations in New York City. Carter Page tells me that he gave him research materials involving energy policy. That's something that Carter Page works on.

But the federal complaint tells a very different story here. That Russian spy was actually working to recruit Carter Page as an intelligence source. There's documented details and conversations in this complaint that talks about Carter Page going to Russia on numerous occasions trying to learn the Russian language.

And what's interesting about this, Wolf, is that the Trump campaign, the Trump team, the Trump administration has repeatedly tried to distance itself from Carter Page. The hook on all of this is that same Russian spy that was talking with Carter Page, well, he is indicted in this complaint along with another Russian spy who worked for VEB bank. Of course, that bank was the same one whose chairman met with Jared Kushner at the height of the transition in December.

So, all of these details coming out. Not quite sure how they're connected. But they are coming out.

BORGER: And, you know, the Trump people are distancing themselves not only from Carter Page, whom I was told, if the president was in an elevator with him, he wouldn't know who he was. Carter Page.

[13:15:00] But Paul Manafort, you'll recall, who was the campaign chairman for five months. Suddenly he -- they made him out, like, a Washington intern or something. And so, you know, there is this -- they're going out of their way to say look, we -- these people were not major players for us. And that's one way to kind of distance all of these meetings that -

BLITZER: As you remember, April, in that interview, the president, then-candidate, had with The Washington Post, he cited Carter Page as one of his National Security Advisers.

RYAN: Yes. And that's the issue. They say one thing today but when you look back at the record, it is there. You cannot change the shape of a circle if it's a circle. You can't make a square an oval, but the - and going to Paul Manafort, too. Paul Manafort was at the convention. He was a strategic piece for a time. No matter how long or what they did for a moment of time, they were there. And people have to understand -- and this is the piece that I think is missing, this is about the election process that's happened in this country and it could affect what's happening in 2018, 2020. So, that is the issue on the table, another country affecting the United States of America's democracy and election process.

BLITZER: All right. April, welcome to CNN. Good to have you with us.

RYAN: Thank you. Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: And Gloria and Jessica, of course, welcome to you guys as well.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: Congressman Adam Schiff, the ranking democrat of the House Intelligence Committee, he's standing by to join us live this hour. Lots of developments to discuss with him on this Russian meddling investigation. Also, breaking news out of Syria. We're covering a devastating suspected chemical attack in the town of Idlib. Nearly 100 reported dead. The White House putting part of the blame on the Obama administration. Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger, a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. You're seeing him live. He's standing by to discuss with me.

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[13:20:44] BLITZER: Breaking news out of Syria. We warn all of our viewers here in the United States and around the world, the story and the pictures we're about to tell you about are very graphic. One doctor in Syria says he has never seen anything like this. It's beyond description, this doctor says. He's talking about patients brought into a hospital in the Northern Province of Idlib, after a suspected chemical attack. Aleppo media center reports 70 people including at least 10 children have been killed, many, many more have been injured. That same Syrian doctor tells us whole families died of asphyxiation and 500 wounded covered the floors of an entire hospital from the patients' rooms to the operating rooms, to the hallways. Our senior international correspondent Arwa Damon is joining us now. Arwa, you've been to Idlib several times. Unfortunately, you've seen these kinds of atrocities in Syria. Do you think this reported chemical attack, first of all, is the work of the Syrian regime?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's what opposition activists are on the ground are saying and reporting. In fact, one local journalist who filmed some of the images that have been put out there told CNN that there were multiple strikes that morning, and that he was hiding under a building in a bomb shelter. He also said that when he finally came out, he had trouble breathing. He was speaking with the doctors there. He was coughing very heavily, trying to get out. And of course, filming all of the horrors that were unfolding around him. Now, the Syrian regime is categorically denying any sort of involvement, whatsoever. But at this stage, they're really the only entity that has the capacity to carry out these kinds of airstrikes. And if we look at historically what has taken place there, the other large chemical attack that happened in the Damascus suburb of Ghouta back in 2013, that also ultimately was carried out by the government itself.

BLITZER: You know, the Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Arwa, has said that the long-term status of the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad will be decided by the Syrian people. I want you to listen to what Senator John McCain said this morning in reacting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MCCAIN, UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM ARIZONA: Barack Obama said that they would have a red line. They crossed it, and he did nothing. And Bashar al-Assad and his friends, his friends, the Russians take note of what Americans say. I'm sure they took note of what our Secretary of State said just the other day that the Syrian people would be determining their own future themselves. That one of the more incredible statements I've ever heard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, do you think Bashar al-Assad, Arwa, could be emboldened by the Trump administration's statements, most recent statements this past week on Syria?

DAMON: I think that's a pretty safe assumption to make. As we heard there, the Syrian President was emboldened by the fact that former President Barack Obama's red line was crossed, and there was absolutely no accountability, Wolf. And that is pretty mindboggling, given that all of these atrocities, not just these various different alleged chemical attacks, but the indiscriminate bombing of residential areas of hospitals, of schools that we haven't seen carried out by both the Syrian regime and by the Russians in areas like Aleppo, for example, have been allowed to move forward with absolutely no accountability.

And now, we have this kind of an attack and adding to all of, of course, that the statements that the Syrian President may not necessarily have to stand down. But also, we'll put at the end of the day, the Trump administration does not necessarily hold Human Rights violations as being an essential factor when it comes to how they're dealing with various different governments. But this certainly sends a very stark and disheartening message. If the United States of all countries is going to allow these kinds of actions, these kinds of deaths, these kinds of acts of sheer and utter incomprehensible violence to go forward, then what has happened to the humanity that America is meant to be upholding. What happened to America's moral high grounds?

[13:24:57] BLITZER: Arwa Damon joining us from New York. She spent a lot of time in Syria over these past several years. Arwa, thank you very much. I want to bring in Adam Kenzinger. He's a republican from Illinois, a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, also flew missions for the U.S Air Force in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Congressman, thanks for joining us. ADAM KINZINGER, UNITED STATES CONGRESSMAN FROM ILLINOIS: You bet, thanks.

BLITZER: So, first of all, what are you being told about who might be behind this suspected chemical attack that killed so many people including a lot of children in Syria?

KINZINGER: Well, I think as your private guest noted, it's obvious it's going to be the regime. They're the only ones with the capacity and they have a history of having done this. And interestingly, you can go on the internet and Google that attack, and you'll see these fake news stories generated by Russian FSB, by the regime that it was, in fact, the rebels that did it. Completely false. It was the regime. And as noted, President Obama's failure to enforce the red line emboldened them. And now, I fear that our administration basically accepting the future of Assad. Look, I agree that the Syrian people should determine - they're trying to determine it right now. That's why they're fighting against a regime that won't go away. And this is meant as a warning sign to the Syrian people that it's only going to get worse. And that's their view of the more inflicted - the more collective pain they can inflict on the Syrian people. They think -- Assad thinks that is his key to victory.

BLITZER: In February, as you know, both China and Russia, permanent members of the U.N. Security Council vetoed a United Nations resolution to punish Syria for chemical attacks, chemical weapons use against civilians. You say that played a role in this latest apparent gas attack, this chemical attack that killed and injured so many people. Why do you say that?

KINZINGER: Well, look, it's obvious that the world is sending a message that they're not united behind this. And here's the really scary thing, Wolf. We've not accepted the use of chemical weapons on the battlefield really since World War I. After World War I, they were banned. We said, never again for this use. And I mean, we upheld no fly zones over Iraq for a decade because of the use of chemical weapons. And now, this is like an everyday story, a new chemical weapons attack, whether it's chlorine or something else. I talked to a doctor that was in Syria that was a victim of one of these attacks. And now - and this is just kind of mainstay. This is - this is mainstream news that this just happens every day. This is wrong, and this is imperative on the administration not just because of what's going on in Syria and the human tragedy but the message of "We will not accept the use of chemical weapons on the battlefield" needs to be maintained. And I think there needs to be punishing strikes against the Syrian regime in response to this.

BLITZER: Secretary of State Tillerson, as you - as you know, he had this to say. I want to play the clip about the future of the Syrian leader, Bashar al-Assad. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REX TILLERSON, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: Long-term status of President Assad will be decided by the Syrian people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And we also just heard just a couple hours or so ago, in the past hour, from the White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer saying in his words, and let me be precise, he said, "There is not a fundamental option of regime change as there has been in the past." What can be done to take out realistically and you served in the military in both Iraq and Afghanistan, to take out the Bashar al-Assad regime? And should that even be a U.S. priority?

KINZINGER: I personally think it should be, and there are options, but every day that it goes by, it gets worse. I think in the very short term, we need to ground Assad's Air Force. That means destroying his helicopters that are dropping these barrel bombs. That means, cratering the runways they take off, so their aircraft cannot take off. It means creating that no-fly zone. I think there needs to be punishing strikes against the regime for this chemical weapons attack to make it clear that we will not accept this use of a weapon on the battlefield.

And then, longer term, we need humanitarian zones and we need the president to bring together our allies in the region that have said they're willing to put more skin in the game, they're willing to put troops on the ground, but they can't do that until we are willing to say that Assad has to go. Assad is creating the next generation of terrorists right now. The seven and the eight-year-olds that have witnessed chemical weapons attacks that think the western world isn't listening. These are the kids that ISIS or the next generation of ISIS is going to find easy recruits because all they have to say is the world doesn't care about you, and we do, and they'll join. So, this is not just about this current humanitarian tragedy, this is winning that next generational war on terror which I feel we're losing.

BLITZER: Yes, you see - you show some of the young people see the images that we've been showing. And this is recruitment material for ISIS and Al-Qaeda, Al-Shabaab and other terror groups.

Now, Congressman Adam Kinzinger, thanks very much for joining us.

KINZINGER: Anytime, Wolf. Thanks.

BLITZER: Up next, we have new details on the Russia investigation. I'll speak with Congressman Adam Schiff, the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee is here with me in the studio. Where do things stand right now? He just emerged from a closed-door briefing. We'll discuss with him when we come back.

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