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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Chicago Judge Shot Down; Boy Commits Suicide After Social Media Prank; Family Outraged; Teen and Teacher Missing; Shocking Discovery. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired April 10, 2017 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[20:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another senseless act of violence.
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN HOST (voice-over): This time, the victim a Chicago judge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will hold his killer accountable.
CASAREZ: Gunned down right in front of his home after hearing a commotion outside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They exchanged words with the offender before he was fatally shot multiple times.
CASAREZ: Tonight, the latest on the manhunt for the judge`s killer.
The mother of an 11-year-old boy devastated, claiming her son was the victim of a deadly cyber prank.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She accessed the friend`s account to make it look like it was the friend talking.
CASAREZ: She says the boy`s girlfriend staged her death on social media to trick him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s been at school laughing away.
CASAREZ: But he was the one who wound up dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There has been shown zero remorse.
CASAREZ: Tonight, charges filed against one of the juveniles involved.
A young pregnant mother killed in a horrific crash.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those images will stay with us forever.
CASAREZ: Police say the driver was texting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never felt that much pain before in my life.
CASAREZ: But now her father is crying foul after learning the driver in the crash could get off with just a slap on the wrist.
You can buy and sell a lot of things on Craigslist, but a 5-month-old baby?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not a physical (ph) possession, it`s your child.
CASAREZ: And investigators say it was not her first time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said she had done this before.
CASAREZ: Tonight, the bombshell in court that dropped a few jaws to the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She told me initially during a conversation that she was pregnant.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez, in for Ashleigh Banfield. Thank you so much for joining us. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
We do begin tonight in Chicago, where a manhunt is going on right now for the person who gunned down a criminal court judge. Police say Cook County
judge Raymond Myles was shot multiple times outside of his home on Chicago`s south side. This all happened this morning, early hours.
Officers say Myles heard something outside and went to investigate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA STAPLES, CHIEF OF DETECTIVES, CHICAGO PD: The female victim in this incident walked out of her residence on the 9400 block of South Forest
Avenue, where she encountered an individual with a gun. Words were exchanged, and the offender shot the female victim, who was struck one time
in the lower extremities.
Upon hearing the commotion and the gunshot, Judge Myles exited his residence to investigate. And again, based off of this very preliminary
information, they exchanged words with the offender before he was fatally shot multiple times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And police do say they are working several leads but have not yet made an arrest. Myles presided over several high-profile cases in Chicago.
In fact, he was the judge who ordered William Balford (ph) to be held without bond in the murders of three members of singer Jennifer Hudson`s
family in 2008. Police do say they will use every resource to track down Myles`s killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN NAVARRO, FIRST DEPUTY SUPT. CHICAGO PD: Every day, civil servants like Judge Myles and those of us in law enforcement work tirelessly to hold
criminals accountable and make our streets safer. That`s why when incidents like this occur, it`s not only a reminder of the ever present
challenge we have with illegal guns and the offenders willing to use them, but it`s also a direct attack on the criminal justice system that keeps our
society safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Judy Pielach is a reporter for WGN radio. She joins us tonight from Chicago. Judy, a manhunt is under way. This happened in the early
morning hours of this morning, but they still have not apprehended anybody?
JUDY PIELACH, WGN RADIO (via telephone): That`s right, Jean. We`re not hearing that they are any closer to apprehending anyone. They are looking
for a lone suspect described as a black male who apparently after the shooting, fled on foot from that area. Police are saying that they will
keep at it until they do have someone in custody, the shooting and killing of a judge not going over very well here in the Chicago area.
CASAREZ: And we also have a female victim, two victims. One is living, which can be so critically important when you do get to trial. But Judy,
let`s start from the beginning. This happened between 5:00 and 6:00 o`clock this morning, closer to 5:00 o`clock. Is that right?
PIELACH: Closer to 5:00 o`clock, yes, as a matter of fact, right around 4:50 AM. Neighbors say that the judge and his female companion, who has
not been named, a 52-year-old woman, that they would go early in the morning to work out in a nearby health club. And she also said that the
woman had a bottle of water with her.
[20:05:00]So apparently, the woman went out first to the garage behind the house and confronted the suspect. There were words exchanged. A gunshot
went off. The judge then ran out to see what was happening. Police say he also had some words with the gunman and more shots were fired, Judge Myles
actually shot several times.
CASAREZ: Right. We`re hearing multiple shots to the judge, who died very shortly thereafter. Judy, I do understand that they are scanning
surveillance video, police video and even private video in this very nice area in Chicago.
PIELACH: That is correct. Those cameras kind of newly installed in that area. Neighbors were telling "The Chicago Tribune" today that they were
even joking with the judge a few weeks ago about those cameras, saying, you know, they didn`t want to be caught doing anything wrong. So they should
certainly have enough surveillance to go off of.
CASAREZ: Now, Judy, I know that there have been some random break-ins, there have been some robberies in the area. What is the working theory
right now, that A, it was someone that did not know either victim, or B, it was somebody that knew the judge or knew the female victim or sees someone
who actually was involved with his criminal court cases and maybe wanted to get revenge?
PIELACH: Right. So we are not hearing that. We`re not hearing that it was related to his court cases. However, that is still on the table. And
the FBI also involved in this investigation because it is a judge and there is a $25,000 reward. But what we are hearing most today is that possibly
it was an attempted robbery.
CASAREZ: An attempted robbery, although nothing was taken at all from either victim. Joining us right now is Clayshia Moore, and she was -- is a
neighbor of Judge Myles. She heard the gunshots. Ms. Moore, thank you so much for joining us.
Just describe for us what you heard this morning and maybe what you saw at your window.
CLAYSHIA MOORE, NEIGHBOR (via telephone): This morning, it took place about 4:40 something AM in the morning. That`s when I woke up. And a few
minutes after, I heard loud shots. And it kind of reminded me of metal trash cans being banged together. And it wasn`t until about 5:01 that I
heard the ambulances coming down the block, and that`s when I realized that it was indeed gunshots.
CASAREZ: And you know, Ms. Moore, we do understand that the female victim who has survived is actually the one that called 911, and then, of course,
neighbors did after hearing all of that.
This judge, Ms. Moore, is very renowned, a senior judge in regard to the amount of time that he`s been on the criminal bench in Cook County,
Chicago, very distinguished, respected by all. The neighbor -- do you know where she lived in conjunction with where he lived, and were they friends?
What are you hearing?
CLAYSHIA: I actually have no information on her at all. We have absolutely no idea who she was.
CASAREZ: And we understand that he really kept to himself. Other neighbors have said that he lived alone and actually kept to himself,
didn`t hear from him too much. But a manhunt on the way tonight to try to get the assailant of the two victims.
Joining us tonight, former prosecutor Robert Schalk and defense attorney Rachel Kugel. First of all, to you, Robert -- there is a victim that
survived, which was an eyewitness to all of this. How important will she be?
ROBERT SCHALK, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Very important because I think it`ll be important for her to outline how they came in contact with one another?
Did the assailant say anything? Was it an attempted robbery? Did he demand her pocketbook? Did he demand money? Was he trying to get into the
house? Was this potentially a sexual assault that we don`t know about? Obviously, you don`t know the parameters of where it was.
Secondarily to that, if there is an apprehension, the opportunity to place a defendant in a line-up or do a photo pack identification so you can have
that -- what I like to call that moment in court where someone points at the table and points the defendant out to the jury is the most positive
type of identification you can have in a criminal prosecution.
CASAREZ: Rachel, we`re only hearing black male on the loose with a gun, violent. Why aren`t they giving more of a description since there is this
living victim?
RACHEL KUGEL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think they`re probably still trying to piece together the details. It`s very early on. They don`t want
to rush to judgment. I think there`s -- they`re not going to take any case more seriously than they`re going to take this case because this case has
taken the senseless violence in Chicago and brought it right to the doorstep of the criminal justice system.
This judge was known for having defendants go finish their high school degrees and get their GEDs. He was a good judge and the type you want to
see in the criminal justice system, and I think they`re going to do everything they can to make sure they get the right guy.
CASAREZ: You know, Robert, Rachel makes such a point because the fact is, the violence out of control. We know about it. We hear about it, police
department trying to do something. Now it`s taken one of their own, in essence, a judge.
[20:10:02]SCHALK: This will be the front page of every newspaper in Chicago and should get national attention, obviously, for purposes of --
you know, there`s fights for gun laws in Chicago. There`s fights for stricter and harsher sentences from your judges. You know, everyone likes
to us the defense of there`s overcrowding in our jails and there`s gang issues, but you need to send a message.
And this is the case that I hope sends the correct message to those individuals in Chicago who are walking around with illegal guns, who are
engaged in criminal activity that it`s not going to be tolerated anymore.
CASAREZ: Well, let`s talk about the harsher sentences because Illinois does not have the death penalty anymore. It was repealed in 2011. It was
an aggravated factor when they did have the death penalty to take the life of a government employee, including a judge. Now...
KUGEL: Yes, but I think you -- I think you probably had to know, and that`s the interesting thing about this motive, which is going to be so
important, is, you know, was this just a robbery gone wrong and whoever perpetrated it is sitting at home watching TV right now, freaking out that
the person that he killed happened to be a judge? Or is this a scenario in which someone purposely killed a judge? Those are two very different, you
know, potential crimes of very (INAUDIBLE) motives.
CASAREZ: Judy, what is it like out there in Chicago tonight? I mean, know violence is common but this has to be getting a lot of press, that one of
your criminal court judges on the bench for many years is now deceased, murdered.
PIELACH: Right. Well, you know, yes, it`s pretty shocking., And as your other guest there just described, we don`t know the motive. We don`t know
that the person knew that Myles was a judge. But in any event, what this tells us is that violence touches everyone. You can be a judge, and you
can still get killed in Chicago.
CASAREZ: But Judy, is it true that where this happened was not literally in front of the house on the street, which sort of would dictate
randomness, but it was in a cemented area behind the home in front of the garage so you really had to go up the driveway a bit?
PIELACH: Right. But I mean, that could still be an attempted robbery because it could have been someone maybe trying to break into a garage or
coming from the back of the house. That`s why we`re hearing mostly today that it may have been attempted robbery, even though, as you pointed out,
nothing was stolen, but that could just be a fact of the situation getting out of control.
You know, we heard that some of the neighbors described hearing the woman screaming, Please don`t shoot him, please don`t shoot him, when the judge
was, you know, being shot. And it just -- it may have been the situation that got out of control, but it may have started as an attempted robbery.
CASAREZ: And you know, Rachel, one last thing very quickly. Police did say they believe that there could have been a car that he got into either
down the street, and they didn`t eliminate the possibility of a second person being the driver.
KUGEL: Right, which might be one of the reasons they`re not giving us that many details yet, is that they want to make sure that if someone comes
forward with information, that they can check that information against facts that only they know that haven`t yet been publicly announced.
CASAREZ: That`s right. And once again, there is a $25,000 reward in the arrest of this perpetrator or perpetrators of two victims tonight in
Chicago.
From Chicago to California, in San Bernardino, two adults and one child are dead after a horrific murder-suicide that happened in an elementary school
classroom today. Special needs teacher Karen Smith and an 8-year-old student were both killed when Smith`s estranged husband, Cedric Anderson,
entered and started shooting. Police say another 9-year-old student was shot but is in stable condition. The shooter, Cedric Anderson, then
committed suicide. Investigators say there was a history of domestic violence between the couple.
A social media prank goes horribly wrong when an 11-year-old boy commits suicide. Now his 13-year-old girlfriend, the alleged prankster, is facing
charges. What happened? And what can be done to protect our children?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:18:22]CASAREZ: Imagine being just 11 years old and seeing a social media post saying that your friend, a girlfriend, had committed suicide.
It would probably be extremely upsetting.
Well, that was the situation investigators say a boy was faced in Marquette, Michigan. Authorities say the posts Tysen Benz saw were a
prank, but the 11-year-old believed it. Moments after seeing the messages, his mother says Tysen hung himself in his bedroom. Now prosecutors are
pursuing criminal charges against the juvenile they claim was involved in the prank.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She used her friend`s account or she accessed the friend`s account to make it look like it was the friends talking, but
really, it was just her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Katrina Goss is Tysen Benz`s mother. She joins us tonight from Marquette, Michigan. Thank you so much, Mrs. Goss, for joining us. I know
that your son`s funeral is tomorrow and the courage that it took to join us. But I know that you have a very strong message that you do want to get
out.
I first want to ask you, how did your son meet this young girl? Because your son is 11. She was 13.
KATRINA GOSS, MOTHER (via telephone): Correct. Yes. And they attended school together. I think that`s how he originally met her.
CASAREZ: Had she ever been over to your house? Had you seen her?
GOSS: No. I had seen her a couple times out and about around town, but no, I was against that from the minute I learned of it, and no, she had
never been to our house.
[20:20:08]CASAREZ: And we know that what a girlfriend might mean when you`re 11 and you`re 13 is different from when you`re older. But did he
call her his girlfriend?
GOSS: He didn`t -- he didn`t call her his girlfriend to me because he knew I was disapproving. But it sounded like all their friends and him -- they
all called her his girlfriend.
CASAREZ: OK. All right. So I want to go through exactly, so people understand what happened here. Now, was the social media app Snapchat?
GOSS: I believe that it was either regular texting or it was Snapchat because those are the ones that he normally used.
CASAREZ: OK. So originally, there is a posting or a text from someone who says they are a good friend of his girlfriend, we`ll call her, right? But
it was actually the girlfriend herself that was posting or texting.
GOSS: Yes, that`s correct.
CASAREZ: And what did that posting say?
GOSS: I actually don`t know the detail of what the last conversation was between them. The authorities have taken his phone and her device, and
they have that as part of the investigation, so I don`t know the exact wording (INAUDIBLE)
CASAREZ: So you`re saying the last conversation -- were there previous conversations that night?
GOSS: I assume that they had been messaging throughout the night when he was in his room. I`m not positive, but I would assume so.
CASAREZ: But you believe the posting where the girlfriend purporting to be a friend is saying she just took her life -- do you believe that went just
to your son or to a group of people?
GOSS: No, I think it was just between her and my son conversing. And she actually had told authorities -- she admitted to authorities that she
pulled the prank that evening. She actually told them she did that.
CASAREZ: And then your son responded saying -- what do you know that your son responded saying?
GOSS: I believe he said he was going to kill himself.
GOSS: And he never got a text back, to your understanding, from this girl saying, I`m just kidding?
GOSS: I don`t think so. Again, I don`t have the phone. I don`t know the exact wording, but I don`t think that she attempted to let him know that
she was joking or to try to stop the incident from happening.
CASAREZ: Now, I heard you just call this a prank. But I understand you believe this is cyber bullying which is a little different because cyber
bullying is normally, you directly are saying something to someone to make them feel bad, you`re not saying that somebody else has just died. Why do
you believe this is cyber bullying?
GOSS: You know, I don`t even know what we could exactly word it as. It`s such a kind of a new, I hate to say it, form of bullying with all the
modern technology that -- I mean, how do we even really word it? Pranking, harassment, bullying? You know, it`s just a malicious thing to do in any
regard. I don`t know how you would even word it. I mean, it`s just horrific.
CASAREZ: Your little boy is precious. We are looking at pictures of him right now and he is absolutely precious. What would you tell other parents
around the country tonight because you`re there right now? What can you do to prevent this from happening again?
GOSS: They need to monitor the device usage, monitor who their children are conversing with, how long they`re on the devices. You know, enforce
the parental settings, and most of all, don`t be afraid to take them away. You know, you are the parent. You`re allowed to take their devices away.
CASAREZ: Now, that little girl has been charged with telecommunications services malicious use and using a computer to commit a crime. Ms. Goss,
this is a very light charge compared to what many believe it should be or could be. Do you believe the charges should be stronger than this?
GOSS: I absolutely do. I absolutely do. I feel that she`s old enough to completely know what she was doing. That`s where I`m very worried and
concerned and disheartened because I do feel she should have stronger charges.
[20:25:06]CASAREZ: All right. Thank you, Ms. Goss, and we will be thinking of you tomorrow, when your son`s funeral takes place.
Police do say that distracted driving may have caused the death of a young pregnant mother. So why are prosecutors only charging a young man with a
misdemeanor? Just ahead, I will talk to the parents of Megan Golt (ph), and you`ll definitely want to hear what they say. The prosecutor`s
decision blindsided them.
Plus, it has been nearly a month since authorities say a Tennessee teacher abducted his 16-year-old student. What her father is doing to try and get
Elizabeth Thomas`s friends to tell police what they know.
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: In Minnesota, a man accused of texting while driving will only face a misdemeanor charge in a crash that killed a 22-year-old pregnant
mother. In February last year, Megan Goeltz was stopped at an intersection just outside of Minneapolis. That`s when police say a Saab veered off the
road and into a ditch. It went airborne and then it crashed into Goeltz`s car. The impact so devastating, it rolled her car, killing her.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s very beautiful. And they wheeled her into our room after the accident when she was already deceased and, you know, those
images will stay with us forever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I couldn`t breathe when my dad called. Had never felt that much pain before in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Makes it even harder, I think, knowing that, you know, she`s going to have another baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Now, according to court documents, police say when they found a Saab`s driver`s phone at the accident site, it was on and it was open to an
app indicating he was texting at the time of the accident. Prosecutors decided not to pursue vehicular homicide charges against the driver, Drew
Fleming, you`re looking at him right there. He`s facing reckless driving charges. A misdemeanor. With a maximum penalty, maximum of one year in jail
and $3,000 fine. And of course, he`s innocent until proven guilty.
As you can imagine, Megan Goeltz`s family is not happy with that decision. And joining us tonight now, Tom and Wendy Goeltz. They are Megan Goeltz`s
parents. Her mother and father. Thank you for joining us. You know, when you think about an innocent victim, that is the epitome of what your
daughter was. She was stopped like she was supposed to be stopped at an intersection. Mr. Goeltz, I know it`s hard, but can you just for our
viewers go through the facts as we know them of what happened to your daughter?
TOM GOELTZ, FATHER OF VICTIM: Well, we haven`t seen the reconstruction report yet, but we believe that she was sitting behind a stop sign in her
vehicle when the defendant`s vehicle veered across the road, went through a ditch for about 75 yards, and struck her car, and then traveled another 75
yards into the woods. You know.
CASAREZ: You.
T. GOELTZ: There were no skid marks. We just feel that there`s, you know, with the phone being open and him texting, it`s alleged that, you know,
with the speeds that were there, even if he was (inaudible) speeding without any skid marks, we just feel that a felony should be in place here.
CASAREZ: You know, it was determined that he was not going fast but just as a layperson, I think that many people would say that defies common sense
that your vehicle lands in a ditch, it goes through the ditch, it becomes airborne, it crashes into your daughter`s car. We see the car and then it
goes into the next ditch across the road and keeps traveling. I mean, and it was a clear day.
It was 21 degrees. There was no rain or slickness at all. It was determined, you know, the one thing that I think is so ironic here and Mrs.
Goeltz, I`ll get to you in just a minute, but Tom, you are a safety educator. That`s what you do for a living. You teach safety on the roadway
in regard to you don`t text and you don`t drive.
T. GOELTZ: Right. Right. I`ve been a safety consultant for 30 years, and I could do nothing to save my daughter. And for the last year, I become an
advocate with the National Safety Counsel against distracted driving. And I`m spending a lot of time going around to high schools and middle schools
and trying to teach our kids not to use the phones when they`re in the car. I think it`s imperative.
I mean, they are going -- there is a generation that`s more connected to these phones than our generation and it`s going -- how are they going to
stop using the phones when they get into the car unless we enact some legislation across the board in all the states that limits use of a phone.
CASAREZ: And I understand it was recently in some Minnesota legislation.
[20:35:00] It was taken out that would mandate hands free driving. That was taken out at this point. It a question of whether it will be put back in
again. But Mrs. Goeltz, have you seen this young man in court? Because he got out on $6,000 bond, so he`s free.
WENDY GOELTZ, MOTHER OF VICTIM: Yes, we did see him the other day.
CASAREZ: Did he look at you? Did he communicate? Did he tell you he was sorry?
W. GOELTZ: No, he did not. No, he didn`t make any eye contact with us.
CASAREZ: Tell us about your daughter because she has a 2-year-old, but she was also pregnant with another child, right? So there are actually two
deaths here.
W. GOELTZ: Correct. She -- yeah, we just found out that she was pregnant.
CASAREZ: She`s beautiful. She`s absolutely gorgeous. As we look at the pictures of her.
W. GOELTZ: Yeah.
CASAREZ: What was she like as a person?
W. GOELTZ: Very bubbly and outgoing. She was a caregiver, a CNA at a nursing home, and she loves to take care of the elderly. And she adored her
daughter, Paisley. Family meant everything to her.
CASAREZ: She was a certified nursing assistant, that is right, and she had a special affinity for the elderly. Robert and Rachel, I want to ask you
this. We researched some Minnesota law here and criminal vehicular operation. It`s a crime. It`s a felony. It declares that if a person is
guilty of criminal vehicular operation, they are guilty if an unborn child is killed in the act. Robert, two people. According to the law here, unborn
child, they consider that a person in Minnesota.
SCHALK: Seems straightforward to me. I don`t understand how the prosecution is overlooking that charge and/or a criminal negligent homicide or reckless
homicide. Everyone -- you`re argument with regards to the common sense argument, you don`t need an accident reconstructionist to tell you that an
individual who can travel over 150 yards as the father just said through two ditches and through a car with expensive impact damage that we just saw
in those photos was not traveling at a slow rate of speed.
CASAREZ: Rachel, you thoughts.
KUGEL: Maybe this is the case that`s going to change the law. You talk about looking at the law and how it`s written and that`s honestly one of
the problems. You talk about texting and driving not being in the law and it`s not. Right now when you look at the statute, in order to get somebody
on the criminally negligent homicide involving the vehicle, it really either needs to be a DWI, so alcohol or drugs involved for the driver which
is not here, or gross negligence.
I have defended to be honest, I have defended some criminally negligent homicide cases, and they`re very difficult for the state to prove because
it`s more than just the kind of negligence that we generally understand in civil law or medical malpractice or personal injury. This is a whole
different level to make someone not just at fault but criminally responsible. It`s a very difficult thing.
And I think here without alleging serious speed, DWI or changing the law, and maybe these parents will make that happen, you know, with them being
incredibly active now going forward.
CASAREZ: You know, Rachel, let`s ask Tom about a toxicology. Was toxicology done?
T. GOELTZ: We believe that it was done.
CASAREZ: Did you hear the results at all?
T. GOELTZ: Well, allegedly the toxicology test was done at the hospital and wasn`t ordered by the state patrol. So we believe that -- I haven`t seen
the report but we believe that the defendant was on illegal drugs. That`s not what we`re being told by the prosecutor, what we`re being told by the
prosecutor is that it can`t be used in court.
CASAREZ: All right. And we have reached out to the prosecutor, also to the defense on this, Robert. So at the scene they don`t order, they do it at
the hospital. Does that preclude it from being admitted?
SCHALK: It depends obviously on each state and evidentiary law. I know here in New York, it would not include them. But again, Minnesota could be
different. But how the prosecution and how the state police do not require or mandate a test for toxicology on any case involving serious accidents or
homicides is mind boggling to me.
They need to enact changes across the board if texting while driving is not criminal activity or not gross negligence. And now you`re dealing with
toxicology reports that are mandated or requested of definitive involvement in these type of serious accidents. You`re going to see this happen
routinely until corrections are made.
CASAREZ: Wendy, what would you like people to know about this case? About what happened? About allegedly texting when you`re driving?
W. GOELTZ: You know, our family sat with Megan the night of her accident. The devastation it`s caused to our family.
[20:40:00] Everything in our life has changed. We miss her so much. And just think about your actions when you`re driving. Your vehicle is a
weapon. It`s not just all fun and games with all this new technology. It`s all about, you know, making sure you`re being, you know, safe behind the
wheel and really focusing on what you`re doing.
CASAREZ: Tom, very quickly, we do have to go.
W. GOELTZ: Our life has been turned upside down.
CASAREZ: I know they have been turned upside down, I know. We cannot imagine. Tom, I want to ask you, since you`re a professional in this area,
very quickly, we have to go. But do you make the conscience decision before you turn on the car that you will not pick up the phone, you will not text,
you will focus on your driving because that is a deadly weapon you have in your hands right there?
T. GOELTZ: That`s right. That`s right. You said it perfectly. I mean, it`s -- you have to turn off your phone, put it on airplane mode, throw it in
the glove box, throw it in the trunk, there is different devices. There is apps available now that will, you know, turn off the signal for, you know,
it will tell the people sending you an e-mail text, phone call that you`re driving, and you`ll get back to them as soon as you can. There are sleeves
available. There is a lot of information that is available. You know what, you can go drive, and it`s everywhere.
CASAREZ: Right.
T. GOELTZ: Everywhere.
CASAREZ: All right. Thank you so much, both of you for joining us tonight. Tonight, the search for Elizabeth Thomas enters a fifth week and there are
still no signs of the missing 15-year-old. Thomas was last seen on March 13thm, and she is believed to be with her 50-year-old teacher, Tad Cummins.
Now, her father is asking for the court`s help in making two of her friends tell investigators what they might know about her relationship with
Cummins. Her father has filed a motion to depose the potential witnesses.
ANTHONY THOMAS, FATHER OF MISSING TEENAGER: I`m hoping it will dawn on one of them how serious this is and this is not a game.
CASAREZ: Right.
THOMAS: And if they got information, we need to have that information, and that she is not safe, she is not in a good situation. And if this person
has information, we need it in order to try to bring her home.
CASAREZ: You know, you can find a lot of strange things on Craigslist, but babies? A couple in Tennessee accused of trying to sell a 5 month old and
police say mother may have done it before.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: Yo can find a lot of things on Craigslist, a new apartment, jewelry, antiques, a car, maybe even a date. But investigators in Tennessee
arrested a mother and her boyfriend on charges they tried to sell a 5- month-old baby in an online classified ad.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s the worst thing I`ve heard. I mean, it`s terrible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s beyond comprehensible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just don`t understand it. It makes me want to cry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously people do anything for money.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not a physical possession, it`s your child. I don`t know. I don`t know. It makes you mad to think about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How can you go that low?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Sheriff`s deputies say John Cain and Deanna Greer told TBI agents the baby was for sale for $3,000. When the undercover officer showed up to
meet the pair at the Dollar General in Greeneville, they say they handed over the cash, and the couple gave them the baby.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
RAY ALLEN, CHIEF AT GREENE COUNTY SHERIFF OFFICE: I was convinced we should show up there with the money and they were going to take the money and run,
that there would be no exchange of a baby. It`s something I just could not imagine, that someone would sell their child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: In court, the couple`s defense attorneys claim they just wanted to have their baby legally adopted and the $3,000 donation was for expenses.
But a judge didn`t buy it and set bond at $175,000 each. Cain and Greer are charged with several charges including attempted child abuse and aggravated
child neglect.
Michael Reneau is the editor of the "Greeneville Sun." He joins us tonight. Michael, thank you for being with us. What did the ad exactly say? How was
it worded?
MICHAEL RENEAU, EDITOR OF THE GREENEVILLE SUN: I`m sorry, can you say that again?
CASAREZ: How was the ad? How was it worded? What did they say?
RENEAU: From what I understand -- from what I understand from court testimony at preliminary hearing on Friday, the folks posted an ad, so that
are looking for a good couple to adopt a baby. The ad referenced the fact that the woman involved was five months pregnant with another baby. There
is nothing in the ad at least as we understand from court testimony, there is nothing in the ad that said that a baby was actually for sale. Just they
were looking for a good couple to adopt a baby.
[20:50:00] CASAREZ: So there wasn`t any type of money they just wanted -- so how do you spring it on somebody then, by the way, we need how much was
it? $3,000?
RENEAU: It was $3,000 from what we understand, from what we`ve been told by law enforcement. In Elizabeth in Tennessee, which is about 40 miles
northeast of Greeneville, a woman there spotted the ad on Craigslist and apparently the ad did mention the fact that the baby would be exchanged for
$3,000, which attorneys here in court last week said that would be for a donation for personal uses and personal expenses.
But a woman in Elizabeth saw the ad on Craigslist, contacted police in Elizabeth then, who then made contact with the folks who put the ad up for
sale or put the ad online. And then from there, agents with the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation were contacted, the FBI got involved. And
apparently, again according to law enforcement officials, this alleged sell was set up here in Greeneville at Dollar General store.
CASAREZ: Right. We`re looking at that on the screen. Michael, we want everybody to listen to a little bit more. This is from the Tennessee Bureau
Investigation agent, Chris Wilhoit. Listen to what he says about it.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WILHOIT, TENNESSEE BEREAU OF INVESTIGATION: She said she had done this before, that she had, I believe, an 11-year-old daughter that was
doing well. That she had given up in the past in this way. She had paperwork that she read to me. That she called the guardianship paperwork
saying that she would be giving that up.
Me and my alleged wife guardianship and that the -- of the child. She told me initially during the conversation that she was pregnant. That she got
pregnant real easy, even when she took birth control pills. She said she was ill that she has had a tumor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Rachel, where do I start? First of all, how can -- let`s say the ad was just -- I want you to adopt my baby.
KUGEL: Yeah.
CASAREZ: Isn`t there somebody affiliated with Craigslist to could step in and say, we don`t do this?
KUGEL: Yes, if they caught it, they certainly can take down postings. That would an issue. But I think what is really interesting here because the
money wasn`t initially referenced is that what the crime is actually about that they`re charging these two with. They`re actually not checking out the
person that they are giving the baby to. In other words, what is child abuse or potential child abuse or neglect is handing the baby over to
someone who you don`t know, who hasn`t been vetted.
And I think that`s why they charged it this way, that there might be some issues with the money part. But this way, they are saying hey, even if you
hypothetically did want a legal adoption and were just it doing it wrong, your problem is you didn`t check out who this baby belonged to. It could
have been, you know, trafficker. You have no idea.
CASAREZ: An excellent point. Robert, she admitted she has done it before. She`s pregnant now with another child. She had drawn up guardianship
papers, saying any money involved, the $3,000 is just for expenses. Her intent, she knew what she was doing.
SCHALK: Absolutely, she knew what she was doing. It will be very important for the prosecution. This will be meticulous. They have to lay this all
out. Number one, is she telling the truth about being pregnant? Number two, is she telling the truth about being sick and having a tumor? If she is
not, you have the consciousness of guilt. She is lying to us to try to get out from underneath this.
Can she prove that there was something else with the 11-year-old that is still doing well? The prosecution has to be meticulous in the paperwork,
meticulous in vetting her statements, and determining the text messages and communications to prove the case as Rachel pointed out. But I think you
have a strong case given her statements and obviously there was no vetting.
You want to stop sex trafficking, you know, randomized child, children being given to people that haven`t been vetted. It`s a serious issue in
this country. We need to make sure we`re not letting Craigslist used as a vehicle to allow that.
CASAREZ: That`s right and it is. How do you stop that? Is it legislation?
KUGEL: Well, I mean, I think there is legislation that regulates adoption. And we were talking a little bit on the break that it`s changed over the
years.
CASAREZ: But they need to regulate Craigslist.
KUGEL: They need to regulate. Craigslist obviously has some responsibility.
CASAREZ: And they had issues in the past.
KUGEL: Yeah, there has been some people trying to sell organs. They need to take down anything that doesn`t meet guidelines. But there is certainly a
lot of legislation regarding adoption law in this country and how it`s supposed to be done and when a biological parent can get money and for what
expenses. You can`t just hand somebody money and hand over a baby.
CASAREZ: Thank goodness that law enforcement was actually monitoring this. Of course, that will probably be attacked by the defense of the shake down
and sting and how it happened. But, at least, they have been charged at this point. All right. We will be right back.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: Thank you so much for joining us tonight. I`m Jean Casarez. We will see you back here tomorrow night 8:00 sharp for PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
"HOW IT REALLY HAPPENED" with Hill Harper is next. Good night, everybody.
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