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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Murder Near TCU Campus; Arrest Made in Chicago Judge`s Murder; Stunning Details; San Bernardino School Shooting; Brutal Double Murder; Movie Plot Murder? Aired 8-9p ET

Aired April 12, 2017 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[20:00:00] JEAN CASAREZ, HLN HOST (voice-over): In the shadow of Texas Christian University, a murder mystery is unfolding.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was this someone random?

CASAREZ: A young woman found strangled in her upscale Fort Worth home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a young woman, who says that couldn`t happen to me?

CASAREZ: Now investigators are working to figure out who killed this church-going sorority girl and why.

A criminal court judge gunned down in cold blood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard two loud gunshots.

CASAREZ: Coming to the aid of a friend shot right outside of his home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They exchanged words with the offender before he was fatally shot multiple times.

CASAREZ: Now security cameras the judge urged his neighbors to install could play a role in catching his murderer.

Nearly three years after her disappearance...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A roller-coaster of emotions.

CASAREZ: ... a doctor is now charged with killing his girlfriend and the mother of his child, a nurse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I look forward for justice for my, you know, beautiful sister.

CASAREZ: What prosecutors say that physician bought after she disappeared that raised red flags.

A teenager with special needs dies in a home fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terrible tragedy.

CASAREZ: But investigators say this was no accident, charging the boy`s parents with murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They used the fire to try to cover that death up.

CASAREZ: Now prosecutors say they got the idea from an Oscar-winning movie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A log must have rolled out onto the floor.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez, in for Ashleigh Banfield. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. This is PRIMETIME JUSTICE.

We do have some breaking news tonight coming out of children. Police are saying they have made an arrest in the murder of criminal court judge

Raymond Myles. Behind bars tonight, 37-year-old Joshua Smith. He is the first to be charged in connection with the shooting. We will bring you

more on this story in just a few minutes.

But first, no matter how nice, no matter how safe you think your neighborhood is, no one is immune from crime or violence. In the shadow of

Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, 22-year-old Molly Matheson was found strangled to death in the garage apartment she rented. It is not a

neighborhood where neighbors say violent crimes like this happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELISE VIDAURRI, NEIGHBOR, TCU STUDENT: As a young woman -- she`s only two years older than I am, or was, and so it`s crazy to think that -- like, who

says that couldn`t happen to me? Like, where was I when that happened? Was this someone random? Was this a random attack?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And it is that question police are trying to answer. Was Molly Matheson targeted, or was this a random act? Now, here`s what we do know

at this point. Though she lived just two blocks off campus, Molly was not a student at TCU but did know the area very well, having graduated from

high school in Fort Worth.

PRIMETIME JUSTICE producer Stacey Newman has been working this story all day. Stacey, this is a very fresh case. The facts are still coming in

tonight. What do we know?

STACEY NEWMAN, PRIMETIME JUSTICE PRODUCER: Well, Jean, what we know right now is this 22-year-old, as you said, was found strangled in a bathroom.

She was renting this apartment above a garage behind this home. As you said, this a very upscale community. That community is on edge.

Now, an interesting fact we`ve learned is that police have said they`re looking for a suspect or suspects, and would not comment when asked about

possible forced entry that location, Jean, being in a bathroom and being strangled -- was she caught off guard while she was in the bathroom getting

ready, or was she dragged into the bathroom against her will and strangled there. We also have not learned yet if this strangulation was manual or

ligature.

CASAREZ: And Stacey, we`re looking at right now the home where she had the apartment, renting it above the garage, a very nice area near campus.

Elizabeth Campbell is joining us tonight. She is a reporter for TCU 360. She joins us from Fort Worth. Elizabeth, thank you. First of all, what is

the area like that we are watching right now on camera, University Place, where this young woman was strangled?

ELIZABETH CAMPBELL, TCU 360 (via telephone): Well, as you mentioned before, it`s right by campus. There are many TCU students who live on that

street. Even more walk past that street every day to get to campus. I walk past that street every day from my apartment. So it`s definitely not

an area where you`d expect something like this to happen.

CASAREZ: Wow. Wow. And this assailant, this perpetrator of this vicious crime is loose. Authorities are looking for him tonight. They are

searching. This is a very active investigation.

[20:05:00]Elizabeth, what do you know at this point? Because you`re right there near the crime scene. What are the facts that you have gathered from

police and law enforcement tonight?

CAMPBELL: So what we can confirm today is she`s actually a Tarrant County College student. She started there last summer in 2016 and she was a full-

time student there now, so not a TCU student. But there are TCU students who knew her from home in Arkansas. As of now, TCU police aren`t working

with Fort Worth police in the investigation, but TCU announced today that they are stepping up the number of TCU police officers and they`re

expanding the areas they`re patrolling around campus.

CASAREZ: Now, Elizabeth...

CAMPBELL: They`ve also hired off-duty Fort Worth police officers to help, as well.

CASAREZ: Very, very important, extremely important. Now, Elizabeth, it`s actually her mother that found her. And just describe for us where

authorities are saying that she was strangled in her apartment.

CAMPBELL: So that area -- it`s the apartment above the garage is what her neighbors have told us, and like I said before, it`s an area with lots of

TCU students (INAUDIBLE) TCU community (ph). When we were out there covering the story, neighbors were coming up to talk to us. It`s a very

"you know your neighbors" kind of area.

CASAREZ: And what we`re hearing, Elizabeth, is that she was found -- her mother found her strangled to death in her bathroom in that apartment.

Joining us tonight is Bobby Chacon. He is a retired FBI special agent. He joins us from Palm Springs. Thank you very much.

You know, I want to ask you because I think, first of all, about a bathroom, and I think about that there is normally one way in and one way

out. Perpetrating a crime in a bathroom, that does have significance, doesn`t it, I mean, more times than not?

BOBBY CHACON, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: It very well could, Jean. And in addition to one way in and one way out, there`s usually only a small window

in a bathroom sometimes that you can`t even escape out of.

And yes, a bathroom is a place where we go to do most of our personal-type business. And so it`s a very personal area not an area that you have a

stranger normally be in, you know, if you had a stranger in your house doing some work or doing a delivery or something like that.

It could also mean she was surprised, if, in fact, she encountered -- - the encounter took place in the bathroom. So the physical evidence in the

crime scene about where the initial contact took place, whether she was dragged into the bathroom, or what happened will be very crucial to

determining, you know, why and how this attack took place.

CASAREZ: And joining us tonight is CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos and defense attorney Misty Marris. Danny, when you look at this, it`s

strangulation -- we don`t know if it was forced entry. They`re not saying if she left her door open. But what are your thoughts on this case?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Couple different things. You know, as you talked about, the bathroom is not the very first room you walk into.

That demonstrates that this person either knew the area or that she was surprised after the suspect had already gained entrance to do this.

The other thing, too, is people think the bathroom is where everything goes to get clean, but they`re really not right. I mean, it`s amazing how often

people think they`ve washed away the evidence of a crime, washed blood down the drain or washed their hands, and in fact, they end up leaving a lot of

DNA evidence that they thought they were getting rid of by going to the bathroom in the first place, if that was the reason for bringing her in

there or surprising her in that room of the house.

CASAREZ: And Misty, you know, Danny brings up what we know as forensics, right, forensics in the bathroom. And crime scene investigators have been

going in and out of that apartment since they found her. That`s extremely important for solving who may have done this.

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, because at this point, we don`t know if this is a forced entry, a stranger, somebody she knew,

somebody that got into the apartment. Maybe she ran into the bathroom because she was in fear.

Danny brought up a great point. Perhaps the assailant chose that place because he felt that he could more easily clean away the evidence. But you

know those police officers are working 24/7 on this because it`s a college town. You`ve got someone on the loose. And there`s lots of other

apartments and dorms and all that in the area.

CASAREZ: Bobby, I want to ask you, as they do these forensics right here, can they do a rush on DNA? Because if they find unknown male DNA on her,

in her, on something in the bathroom, can they expedite that through the CODIS (ph) system -- and you can explain to everybody what that is -- to

see if there is a hit because they could help them.

CHACON: Sure, well, the CODIS database matches sample DNA that you submit to known DNA that`s been categorized and put into the database of known

offenders. And I was a forensic investigator in the FBI myself for the last half of my career. While the samples can be expedited in that they

could go to the top of the laboratory`s work flow, some of the chemical processes, some of the scientific methods that the samples are subjected to

simply can`t be rushed because that`s the way the chemical reactions work.

[20:10:04]So yes, in a way, the work can be expedited. It can be moved to the front of the line. But then some of the analysis that takes place

simply can`t be rushed.

CASAREZ: Elizabeth, do we know if there are any surveillance cameras in the area? This is a residential area, but more and more people have

surveillance systems and those cameras go out on driveways, which is critical in this particular case.

CAMPBELL: There are some cameras around TCU`s campus, but we haven`t heard of anything around in the neighborhood itself.

CASAREZ: Now, Elizabeth, I`m seeing a gate on that driveway. Was that a gated driveway? And did it stay locked?

CAMPBELL: Yes, neighbors told us that it was a gated driveway in front of the apartment.

CASAREZ: Right. Question is if it was unlocked or unlocked because she was expecting someone or locked and someone climbed over, which isn`t

inconceivable.

Bobby Chacon, you are a retired FBI agent, and when I look at strangulation -- you know, they always say that the mode of operation of a crime can be

important to determine what type of person would do this. Is strangulation personal? It`s a quiet way to kill somebody. I`m sorry to be so obviously

gruesome, but that`s the fact, right, versus a knife or gun. What type of person strangles...

CHACON: Sure, sure. Well, you`re absolutely right, Jean. The fact that you have to put your hands physically in contact with the other person`s

neck, the skin -- the neck is our most vulnerable part of our body, right? It can be crushed and things like that. So the fact that you put your

hands around that person`s neck and squeeze the life out of them, it also means most of the time that you`re face-to-face with the victim as they`re

taking their last breaths. Their eyes are probably open. You`re probably looking that person straight in the eye.

It`s actually a more personal way than, say, bludgeoning someone to death, even though that might create more blood and more things like that.

Strangulation like this, if it`s a hand-to-hand strangulation around the neck, it`s a face-to-face crime where you`re looking the person right in

the eye as they`re taking their last breath. Very, very personal.

CASAREZ: And that is horrible to think this young 22-year-old girl went through that. Thank you so much.

We do have breaking news tonight. Chicago police have made an arrest in the shooting death of criminal court judge Raymond Myles.

And later, a murder mystery in Virginia. This woman disappeared without a trace almost three years ago. Now her boyfriend is about to go to trial

for first-degree murder.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:16:54]CASAREZ: We are following new developments tonight in the murder of a criminal court judge in Chicago. About 90 minutes ago, police say

they arrested 37-year-old Joshua Smith in connection with the shooting. Now, officers will not say what role Smith played, but he is charged with

first-degree murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELISSA STAPLES, CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Based upon what we`ve learned so far, we have charged 37-year-old Joshua Smith with first-degree murder,

attempted first-degree murder and obstruction. As we`ve seen many times before, Mr. Smith has previously been convicted of armed robbery with a

firearm in 2003, for which he served six years in Illinois Department of Corrections.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Judge Raymond Myles was shot early Monday morning outside of his home. Police say he was leaving to go to the gym with a female companion

when she bumped into a man with a gun. She was shot in the leg, and officers say when the judge verbally confronted the gunman, he was shot

four times and killed. Police say Joshua Smith did not act alone and their investigation is far from done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STAPLES: ... the motive of this crime, this robbery, which we do not believe is random, nor do we believe Smith acted alone. There are many

investigative steps to be completed overnight in this case, which remains very open, active and ongoing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: While they are staying pretty tight-lipped about most of the details, officers do say it was security cameras in the neighborhood that

helped track down this suspect.

Rob Martier, who is an anchor and reporter for WGN radio, joins us from Chicago. Rob, what`s the latest?

ROB MARTIER, WGN RADIO (via telephone): Yes, interesting to note what you just mentioned, the cameras certainly instrumental in capturing at least

one of the suspects. There could be possibly one more out there, as well.

Ballistics played a role in this case. When they grabbed the casings from Monday morning`s shooting that killed Judge Myles, they also were able to

link that to a previous robbery, as well. So there were a lot of moving parts to this case as we move forward and as police continue to unravel

this unfortunate event.

CASAREZ: Now, Rob, isn`t it true that the license plate that they were able to capture from that surveillance video wasn`t the actual license

plate of the car?

MARTIER: That is correct. Yes, it`s a 2005 red Pontiac that was seen through footage from neighborhood surveillance cameras. What they did

then, of course, was narrow that down and they noticed that the plates had been switched out. Obviously, the suspect and/or suspects thought they

would be able to elude police by doing that. They quickly ascertained that`s what happened -- the police, that is -- and they also basically

cleared the owner of that car of any wrongdoing, as well. But they were able to link it back to Joshua Smith.

CASAREZ: Now, Rob, they do believe that this was a targeted robber, had nothing to do with the judge, his position as a criminal court judge in the

children area. Was anything taken?

MARTIER: Well, it`s interesting. They have been pretty tight-lipped about that aspect of the investigation. They did say, as you just suggested, the

motive was robbery and was not random. They made a point to make sure they highlighted that at the press conference earlier tonight.

[20:20:14]So moving forward and probably into tomorrow at the bond hearing, more details that they have probably will come out and will finally reveal

what, in fact, went down early Monday morning.

CASAREZ: And this is an active investigation even tonight. They are searching for the second person. They say that this person did not act

alone, the person that is in custody, but it is ballistics that played an extremely important role in the apprehension of Joshua Smith. Listen to

the press conference. It was just minutes ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STAPLES: Part of the physical evidence in this case includes ballistics or shell casings from the gun. We immediately ordered a trace on those

ballistics and learned that the gun used in this tragic incident was used in an armed robbery that occurred this past January in the seventh

district, where a victim was shot non-fatally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And Bobby Chacon, a former FBI agent, joins us again from Palm Springs. Bobby, this is fascinating to me that they were able to take the

casings they found lying around on the ground, most likely, and absolutely putting them through a technology that were able to match casings from a

robbery to a gun, a robbery in January.

CHACON: Sure.

CASAREZ: How was that done?

CHACON: Well, you know, the casings on the -- the shell casings, or actually, the markings on the casings are almost like a fingerprint for

each individual gun. And so probably back in January, the casings from that non-fatal robbery were analyzed and put into the database. And then

it`s just like a fingerprint database. When they got these casings -- a semiautomatic pistol ejects casings when fired -- they collected those and

they did the match and they -- they put those...

CASAREZ: So do you think -- do you think that they physically compared one to the other? There`s not a system, there`s not a technology like DNA, for

instance, you put through the system...

CHACON: No. There is a numerical scoring system, and so you narrow it down. And then ultimately, you know, you have to at some point -- just

like a fingerprint, you have to do an exact match. So the -- you know, this is a judge investigation, a murder investigation. They probably threw

a lot of resources at this and got it done as quickly as they possibly could.

CASAREZ: Yes. Danny Cevallos, here`s the thing that I was thinking about today. The female victim was initially the one that confronted the robber.

He shot her once in the lower torso, in the leg. Then the judge comes out and starts to verbally confront him. He shoots the judge multiple times

and shoots to kill.

CEVALLOS: It`s very, very confusing because you would think if you`re going to leave no witnesses, leave no witnesses at all.

CASAREZ: You kill her before you leave, right?

CEVALLOS: Absolutely. And even firing at the lower extremity, wow, it could hit the artery and certainly be fatal. It does evince some sort of

intent to just injure or cripple and not necessarily kill. Or it could have just been bad shooting by a bad criminal.

CASAREZ: Right. Right. Either say. Misty, this is another thing I`m struck with. This guy, former felon, Joshua Smith, has been charged with

murder, attempted murder and obstruction -- wasn`t honest with police. It doesn`t matter if he was the shooter or if he drove the getaway car. He

can be charged with the principal crime if he drove the car and they got away.

MARRIS: Yes, it`s classic accomplice liability. If you`re involved in the planning, commission or the getaway of the crime, you can be charged with

that murder. And if it`s confirmed that this man was a part of the conspiracy -- we don`t know what part he played. We don`t know how the

police actually identified him. But if that`s the case, then absolutely, Jean, he can be charged with the murder of this judge.

CASAREZ: Right, We don`t know how he was identified. But Bobby Chacon, there is a living victim who is a witness, an eyewitness. She`s been in

the hospital because she was shot, but do you believe that they presented her with a picture of this man for her to identify?

CEVALLOS: Well, if not a picture, they certainly did a six-pack or, you know, a photo lineup type of thing to her.

CASAREZ: Right.

CHACON: I would imagine they did that at the very least. I would imagine, you know, he`s -- you know, this is a felony murder-type deal with him, and

I would imagine that the detectives are working very hard on interrogating him. And I`d be surprised if within the next 24 hours and overnight, we

don`t have a lot more information coming out and maybe even the second suspect named.

CASAREZ: Exactly. And Danny, do you think that this guy, Joshua Smith -- is he going to start talking?

CEVALLOS: He might. You know, any time you have a potential co- conspirator, they may approach him with some kind of offer, especially if he claims, I wasn`t the actual shooter, it was somebody else. It really

depends on the facts, but that is a very, very effective technique, is to lean on one person, let them know what they`re facing, and sooner or later

-- there is no loyalty among thieves. There really isn`t.

[20:25:12]CASAREZ: Yes. And there have been a lot of robberies in the area. All right, Chicago.

Nearly three years ago, a Virginia nurse just vanished and she has not been seen since. Now this man, her boyfriend, is facing first-degree murder

charges and could be sentenced to death.

And did a film winning two awards at this year`s Oscars have anything to do with this child`s death? New York police say yes, and now his parents are

charged with his murder.

[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: Co-workers reported a 26-year-old nurse in Virginia missing when she did not show up for work at the hospital for several days. That was in

June of 2014 and for nearly three years, police investigated Zulma Pabon`s disappearance as a suspicious missing person`s case.

That despite cries for her family and friends that she would never have left her 4-year-old son. That all changed a few weeks ago when police

arrested and charged her boyfriend, a doctor, John Gibbs, with her murder. And with the evidence prosecutors presented during his hearing, family

members are questioning why Gibbs wasn`t charged sooner.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just a roller coaster of emotions, you know, being really sad, and you know, depressed to angry. Just getting that phone call

known that he has been arrested just -- I mean, it brought tears into my eyes. You know, of course, very glad and happy that police and detectives,

you know, finally arrested him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Police say Pabon`s body has not yet been found and this is a no body homicide. Joining us now, freelance reporter, Tammy Rose. She joins us

from Neenah, Wisconsin. Thank you so much for being here. You know, there was a bail hearing yesterday, and some of the facts, according to the

prosecution that came out are shocking, startling, but they say they are fact. Let`s start with the drain cleaner. What did we learn about that?

TAMMY ROSE, FREELANCE REPORTER: Yeah, the evidence is really mounting up against 39-year-old John Gibbs who is accused of first-degree murder.

Police tell us that he was caught buying 23 bottles of drain cleaner and a huge 64 gallon trash bin. They also tell us there were a Google searches

from his computer that said how much ether to knock someone else. They also had forensic DNA inside John`s car matching her DNA. However, they still

have not found her body.

CASAREZ: Now, they have a son together, Tammy, and it all started in June of that year when they were living together and then suddenly in the

morning, surveillance cameras once again show -- you tell me, what did they show? They show her car leaving, right? The victim.

ROSE: Yeah, at about 6:30 in the morning, Saturday, June 7th, surveillance cameras show her car leaving a house that they share together. However, it

is too hard to make out who was driving. But 13 minutes later, you see 39- year-old John Gibbs coming back into the frame. We don`t know if he drove off or he walked. That`s too hard to make out. But he was also seen leaving

his house that they share together several times that day and where he changed his clothing at least twice.

CASAREZ: He changed his clothing at least two times. Important detail right there. So all of a sudden, she`s missing. She doesn`t report to the

hospital as the nurse, which she was, and so they start looking at the man on your screen right there, right? In fact, they put a tracker on his car,

right, Tammy? Where did he drive?

ROSE: Yeah, they already started tailing him shortly after she went missing. So they put a tracking on his car and he makes an unscheduled

visit to Flagstaff, Arizona.

CASAREZ: From Virginia?

ROSE: From Virginia, that`s correct. And they also observed him throwing away a trash bag and they found some bed sheets and a TV remote inside that

trash bag.

CASAREZ: Right, right. Comforter, bed sheets, and television remote. And I think that was a dumpster in Virginia. Now, we also know that the day after

she was last ever known to be alive, a tow truck came to the house and towed the car away?

ROSE: Yeah, her car was actually found, I believe, it was several weeks later at a mobile home park. However, they do have some pictures of two

vehicles, one that looks like hers that it was being towed away. But police actually found the vehicle at a mobile home park where he was observed

driving past the vehicle. He didn`t stop, but he was observed while they were tailing him.

[20:35:00] CASAREZ: And joining us now is Yalitza Soba. She is the sister of the victim. Thank you so much for joining us from Mebane, North

Carolina. We are so sorry because in reality, your sister could be missing. Your sister could be deceased. You have no answers at this point although

this boyfriend has been charged with murder. Did you know him? What was he like?

YALITZA SABO, SISTER OF THE VICTIM: First of all, I just want to thank you for having me on the show and for airing all this out. Yeah, we -- you

know, I met him and I knew he was very different from my sister, very quiet, was pretty much all about work, but they were completely opposite.

He didn`t really have any plans. But, you know, we always supported my sister.

She seemed to be very happy for, you know, for a while until maybe the last couple years because he wouldn`t, you know, commit. Just certain things

were just not right. After a while, I just didn`t think it would end up to be anything like this, especially after couple weeks when she decided that

she was going to move out and have her own place with her and my nephew, Joseph.

CASAREZ: Did you never -- did your sister ever tell you anything about a violent behavior at all? Or just that she wanted more in the relationship

that wasn`t happening so she was going to move out?

SABO: My sister never did. She is very over protective over her family and doesn`t want to create any stress. That`s just how she was. She never told

us anything like that. I just knew, the last time I saw her was Memorial Day weekend. We went to go visit my grandmother, that Memorial Day weekend

of 2014.

And she was asking me if I could help her, you know, she wanted to start a new beginning because he wouldn`t commit and she just didn`t want to be

that, you know, girlfriend, just to be a girlfriend. She wanted a little bit more after dating him for, you know, six years or so.

So all I know that after that whole thing, I guess things changed. I just wasn`t aware of it. She told a lot of, you know, the friends and

everything, but it was something that I`m dealing with and it`s very difficult for my parents.

CASAREZ: I know.

SABO: And myself, my kids, my nephew, and everybody around us. And the point is, he never once picked up the phone to call the cops. He basically

just completely didn`t care. If it wasn`t for her co-workers and friends at work, we would have never found out about this. He just didn`t care.

CASAREZ: We are so sorry.

SABO: Thank you.

CASAREZ: We are so sorry because this is real life. This isn`t fiction. This isn`t a TV show. This is really happening to you and.

SABO: It is and it`s hard because you see it on TV and you feel bad for everybody (inaudible) when you live through it and it`s the unknown, you

know. He hasn`t talked, you know, what happened? What did he do? She`s somewhere. You know, I still have my parents, my mom, my dad, myself and a

lot of people, family and co-workers. We want her back home but he just -- there` no emotions coming from him.

CASAREZ: You know, Danny, we got to look at the reality. This was a doctor. A doctor knows.

CEVALLOS: I hear you but here is my thing.

CASAREZ: The anatomy of the body.

CEVALLOS: I know. I know.

CASAREZ: And he bought 36 bottles of drain cleaner.

CEVALLOS: I know but I have defended no body murder cases and you and I have covered that in the past as well. And I have to tell you. They are in

a way to me, they are more difficult to defend than when you have an actual body because a body will always give you a wealth of information. So to me,

I`ve always believed that it`s not prosecutor`s best advantage in these no body murder cases because they can have receipts of drain no bought and use

that as the corpus and use that to convict a defended, not a body.

CASAREZ: That`s right. Now, what Danny is saying, Misty, is right. There is no body. And that definitely is hard. You can`t find the cause of death.

Juries want cause of death. They want to know this. And it seems like they can`t find an instrumentality of death. We don`t know that at this point.

But the circumstantial evidence, disposing of the comforter and the sheets in the in the dumpster, driving to Flagstaff, Arizona and the Grand Canyon.

MARRIS: Well, you can convict somebody on circumstantial evidence but it`s notoriously difficult. No body, no weapon. And you`re going to hear the

defense say, we don`t even really know if a murder occurred. And that`s gonna be a reoccurring theme. Remember, the owning is on the prosecution.

They have to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

You have some internet searches relating to the use of this substance, but that didn`t work in Casey Anthony. You just don`t know which way a jury is

going to go when you`re facing a premeditated murder charge with a weighty sentence. I mean, this is going to be a tough one for the prosecutors

without a body.

CASAREZ: Danny?

CEVALLOS: In closing arguments, you say to the jury, can the prosecution tell you how this person died?

[20:40:00] Can they tell you that this person is even dead beyond a reasonable doubt? And strangely enough, these cases actually have a pretty

decent rate of conviction. So that argument, the open question seems to work.

CASAREZ: Yeah. Yalitza, I want to ask you before we go, if you could talk to your sister`s boyfriend right now, what would you want to say to him?

SOBA: I just want him to open up and just tell us where my sister is. That`s all I want. And if it`s not him, i`m asking the public like if you

saw something, if you know of John, any plans, just anything, please come forward to the Chesterfield Police Department. They have done an amazing

job.

Their team, the detectives, and everything have been here since day one and I`m truly blessed to have them in our life and everything they have done.

But if I will be faced with John, which I have before when she went missing because I went looking for him, I just want him to tell us where is my

sister.

CASAREZ: I understand. Yalitza, they always say that somebody knows something because people talk.

SOBA: Correct.

CASAREZ: They tell that one person what happened or somebody can see something. So we are with you and we will keep following this case. Thank

you for joining us.

SOBA: Thank you so much. Have a good evening.

CASAREZ: In San Bernardino, police have released more details about a cryptic note they say was written by school shooter, Cedric Anderson.

Investigators say it was found in his home but it wasn`t a suicide note. They say it spoke of Anderson feeling disrespected and needing to find

closure. Anderson and his estranged wife, Karen Smith, have separated in March after just three months of marriage.

Police say the note by itself would not have been alarming if not for Monday`s shooting at North Park Elementary School. Karen Smith and an 8-

year-old student were both killed when Anderson walked into her classroom and opened fire. Anderson then turned the gun on himself.

And in Houston, 17-year-old A.J. Armstrong, a double-murder suspect was bailed out of jail today. Last week, we told you about the Texas teen who

was facing capital murder charges in the shooting deaths of his father, former NFL player Antonio Armstrong Sr. and his mother, Dawn. Yesterday,

bail was set for A.J. in the amount of $200,000. If convicted, he could be sentenced to life in prison.

A special needs child is killed in a deadly house fire, and police think one of this year`s Oscar winning movies might have played a part in his

death. We will explain.

[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: A heartbreaking story out of upstate New York, a teenager with special needs killed in a home fire. But if Jeffrey Franklin`s death wasn`t

tragic, prosecutors alleged his adoptive parents murdered him and tried to cover it up with a fire. In a plan device just hours after watching a film

that won two Oscars at this year`s ceremony, "Manchester by the Sea."

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple if fire logs in a fire, just to warm up the house when I was gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Investigators say the Franklins adopted the boy in 2012 and say his care became a big strain on the family. Now, Ernest and Heather

Franklin who is pregnant are both charged with his murder.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

ERNEST CUTTING JR., CHENANGO COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: It`s a terrible tragedy. It`s difficult especially when you`re on the outside looking in,

you know, many, many people, you know, just ask themselves, how could this ever happen? Unfortunately, you know, this child, Jeffrey, was adopted six

or seven years ago. Unfortunately, circumstances came to the point where his death was caused and they used the fire to try to cover that death up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And joining us tonight is Denise Richardson. She is a staff writer for the dailystar.com. She joins us from Oneonta, if I am saying that

right, New York. Denise, thank you so much for joining us.

DENISE RICHARDSON, STAFF WRITER FOR THE DAILY STAR: Thank you very much for having me.

CASAREZ: The time line is critically important in this case, and let`s start, when did they watch the movie in their living room?

RICHARDSON: The district attorney reported that they watched the movie on the night of February 28th. And the fire was reported in the early morning

hours of March 1st.

CASAREZ: Okay. So let`s look at this, Denise. The Academy Awards were February 26th. February 28th. They are watching the movie in the evening in

their living room. Take the facts from there. After the movie ended, we`ll say, you know, before midnight a little bit, probably, what happened after

that?

RICHARDSON: The fire was reported in the early morning hours and.

CASAREZ: Okay. But even before that, Denise, isn`t it true that the mother in all of this, she left the house, right? She went grocery shopping.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, she went shopping. And she was not there during the fire.

[20:50:00] She returned sometime after the fire.

CASAREZ: Right. So why didn`t the father get injured in the fire?

RICHARDSON: The district attorney reported that he wasn`t in the house. He had said that he went out to chase some dogs who had run away.

CASAREZ: That`s right. So the only person inside the house was their son, their son that they had adopted in 2012. Now, what you have learned through

these legal proceedings is that the fact is it`s been determined that the young boy was already dead when the house was set on fire?

RICHARDSON: Yes. The autopsy determined that he had died before the fire started. There was no evidence of soot, for instance, or smoke in his body.

CASAREZ: Right.

RICHARDSON: According to the autopsy.

CASAREZ: All right. Very.

RICHARDSON: Couldn`t.

CASAREZ: Go ahead, Denise.

RICHARDSON: However, the autopsy also couldn`t determine the exact cause of death because the body was so badly burned.

CASAREZ: Right. Right. So tragic. So, Denise, we want everybody to watch just a clip from this award-winning movie that won best actor this year,

original screenplay this year, "Manchester by the Sea." Watch this.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Must have rolled out onto the floor and the fireman said they pulled her in. She passed out downstairs. And the furnace blew and

they couldn`t go back in again. And that`s all I remember.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: All right. Misty, they watched the movie, and the movie is -- they turned on the wood burning stove, I left it open, I left, and all of a

sudden, and the father in the movie, sorry to spoil this for you, the father was not charged because law enforcement determined it was an

accident. So, Misty, that`s very close in time. They finished the movie.

MARRIS: Right. It`s extremely close in time. I don`t think anybody expected this movie would be the type of movie that would spark a violent response

but at this point, we have to remember that these are allegations. This is the prosecution`s narrative. We don`t have any other evidence that we`re

aware of right now that this couple actually started this fire outside of the fact that they were absent from the home. So there really needs to be

more to it in order to.

CASAREZ: Yeah. Father was real calm, cool, and collected when he called 911. But I will tell you, you don`t know how somebody is gonna react. They

can be in shock. Danny, you heard this, right? There are no coincidences in criminal law.

CEVALLOS: No, I hear those no coincidences speeches from prosecutors.

(LAUGHTER)

CEVALLOS: . for the most part. It`s their favorite. When you take a step back, if I`m a prosecutor, imagine if I`m actually turning as one of my

arguments, hey, you remember that movie? Yeah. Well, what happened in the movie? I mean, it`s not unusual. We heard it before. Prosecutors wisely and

cleverly weave into their story line, something that sounds similar to a movie that they may have seen.

They may even refer to it in their opening statement. It`s a very effective tool because it allows the jury to visualize the corruption, visualize the

crime, makes it easier to convict. It`s a smart move.

CASAREZ: Here is what, Misty, makes it easier to convict. According to prosecutors, they looked at the little boy`s lungs. There was no smoke

inhalation at all in his lungs. And that showed them that he had actually died before the house was set on fire. How would you defend that? Battle of

the experts?

CEVALLOS: That`s a huge -- I don`t know. That would be tough to fight an expert because that`s one of the old rules, which is if the lungs are pink

inside, there wasn`t any breathing going on when the fire was going on around the person. But surely you can find an expert to opine that maybe

based on where the body was located, maybe the child got (inaudible) to the ground, that it was the heat and not the smoke inhalation. But that is

difficulty piece of evidence to combat.

CASAREZ: Yeah, what do you think?

MARRIS: You know, I have to disagree with my friend, Danny, because I think that what you do is they haven`t been able to confirm what the cause of

death was. So really, if you`re going to believe what the prosecution is saying, you have to believe that this couple set the fire in order to

destroy the evidence and you don`t have any evidence of that cause of death.

So you really do have a defense there from the murder aspect and you really, as a defense attorney, you would tap that narrative and you tap the

fact that it`s circumstantial evidence.

CASAREZ: Danny, here is one for the defense. They adopted a special needs child. Those are normally people with very big hearts.

CEVALLOS: That`s good for the defense but if I`m the prosecution, I`m going to say it doesn`t matter. I`m going -- they adopted this child, maybe they

had good intentions, but turned because they didn`t realize how hard it is.

[20:55:00] Hey, did you ever adopt any animal and -- people adapt animals, they think it`s too hard, they give the animal back.

CASAREZ: Uphill battle.

CEVALLOS: That`s what these people did. It`s the same thing. That`s what I would do if I was the prosecutor.

CASAREZ: We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: Thank you so much for joining us. I`m Jean Casarez. We will see you back here tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp for PRIMETIME JUSTICE. "FORENSIC

FILES" starts right now. Good night.

[21:00:00]

END