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Trump Speaks with Chinese President; Nunes Surveillance Claims; FISA Warrant for Page; Tillerson in Moscow. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 12, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 8:00 p.m. in Moscow. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We start with breaking news out of Moscow. The secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, meeting with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. This meeting has been going on now for almost two hours.

We're expecting to hear from Tillerson and his Russian counterpart at the end of the extended day of talks on Russia's involvement in Syria, the military strikes ordered by President Donald Trump, among other issues.

Our Senior Diplomatic Correspondent Michelle Kosinski is joining us live from Moscow. Our Senior International Correspondent Ben Wedeman is at the border between Syria and Turkey.

Michelle, what does it say that President Putin has been meeting now apparently for so long with Secretary Tillerson?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: Well, even the fact that he has agreed to meet with him, that he scheduled this, is kind of part of the theater of this whole trip.

A State Department official says that they did expect this meeting to happen, at some point. But President Vladimir Putin broke with precedence. I mean, he would normally just expect and schedule to meet with any U.S. secretary of state.

But this time, he, kind of, strung the State Department along for days. They couldn't even put it on the schedule definitively. It came up without warning, even though Tillerson had some time blocked out. The traveling U.S. press was kept back at a separate location.

So, it's likely that the only pictures or information that comes out of this is going to come from the kremlin. And, of course, we'll hear from this press conference.

So, we know that the State Department thought that this would happen. That Putin would want to meet with Tillerson. But this is, as one official told me, classic kremlin playbook. That they wanted to, you know, show themselves in a position of power here. Add some drama and mystery to it. The fact that it's a very long meeting shows that there is discussion going on. I think the message would have been very clear if this meeting hadn't happened. It seems like the kremlin wanted to put that notion out there, that this wasn't just a done deal, that the meeting would occur.

Now that it has, we're just going to have to see if any opening to progress can come of this, which we'll hear from the foreign minister and from Secretary Tillerson.

But when you listen to what Putin, himself, was saying earlier in an interview, I mean, more of that strong rhetoric that we've heard over the past couple of days. And really coming from both sides. You have two deeply entrenched positions here.

It's difficult, at this point, to imagine where that opening lay. But, always, there's some opportunity for cooperation because the U.S. and Russia have been cooperating, even through this tension on a number of issues.

And I guess that is where they are going to have to try to find, you know, some shred of that foundation that was there before to attempt to move forward -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, today's meeting a lot different than the meeting they had, what, four years ago, when Tillerson was still the CEO of Exxon- Mobil, was invited to Moscow to receive a friendship prize from the Russian government, with Putin at that time. Today's meeting, obviously, a lot different.

Ben, you're there along the border with Syria. The Russian President Putin, he claims the chemical attack against the civilians last week was staged. That was the word he used, staged, to make it look like it was carried out by the Syrian air force.

Russia is also, once again, calling for a full international investigation. What are the chances of a conclusive investigation actually being carried out, given the fighting that's going on?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, there is a president, Wolf. And after the 21st of August 2013 chemical attack on Alotta (ph) which is just outside of Damascus, that attack left hundreds of people dead.

The United Nations did conduct an investigation. It was an area where there was active fighting, but they managed to have a daily five-hour cease-fire to allow the U.N. inspectors to do their job.

Now, they were able to interview victims, take blood and urine samples from the people affected and they did come out with a report that concluded that, indeed, sarin gas was used in that instance.

But what's significant is that the report did not lay any blame. It just laid out the scientific facts. And, in fact, the report concluded with the statement that the result leaves us with the deepest concern. In the end, blame was never laid. Many people did conclude from the evidence provided that, for instance, it was a surface-to-surface missile that delivered the sarin gas. That that particular missile was only in the possession of the Syrian military.

[13:05:06] But, as I said, the U.N. did not actually say who was behind the attack. And in other instances where they did investigate or try to investigate chemical attacks, they were provided with data information by a Russian investigative team.

So, it's unlikely that any U.N. team or investigation would provide this, sort of, smoking gun that I think everybody wants to see -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, let's not forget, yesterday, the defense secretary of the United States said that there was absolutely no doubt, no doubt at all, that the Syrian regime of Bashar Al Assad was responsible for that chemical weapons attack.

Ben Wedeman on the Turkish-Syrian border. Thank you. Michelle Kosinski in Moscow. By the way, we're told, Michelle, that that meeting between Tillerson and Putin has just wrapped up. So, we anticipate we will be hearing from Tillerson and the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, very, very soon. We'll have live coverage of that.

Putin said, by the way, in an interview today that relations with the United States under President Trump had, quote, "degraded" especially, he said, at the military level.

Let's bring in our Chief International Correspondent Christiane Amanpour. She's joining us today from New York.

So, Christiane, what's your first impression of latest comments from President Putin and of the meetings today that are going on in Russia with the secretary of state of the United States, Rex Tillerson?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Wolf, it's been described as a case of geopolitical whiplash. People are looking on on what's going on and simply can't believe that in the space of a week, what was really a cozying-up atmosphere between the Trump administration and the kremlin has turned into this something completely and utterly different.

A lot of it from the kremlin's perspective is for public consumption. And they have kind of set themselves up because the media, in Russia right now, is reported as being very, very anti the Trump administration since the strikes in retaliation for the chemical attack.

But what really will matter, frankly, is two things. Whether they can get military deconfliction cooperation back from Russia. But also, most especially, the Russia -- the secretary of state has gone over there to try to get Vladimir Putin to distance himself, disassociate himself, stop playing Assad's lawyer and Assad's military enforcer. And that is what they're trying to do. So, all the other talk, all the other theatrics, all the rest of it will amount to a hill of beans if the United States cannot get Russia to disassociate itself from Assad and to stop Assad in the most egregious actions that it continues to take.

BLITZER: President Trump, Christiane, summed up his view of the continuing relationship with -- between the Russia and the Syrian president, Bashar Al Assad, this way. I want you to listen to what the U.S. president said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Frankly, Putin is backing a person that's truly an evil person. And I think it's very bad for Russia. I think it's very bad for mankind. It's very bad for this world. As you see the same kids with no arms, no legs, no face. This is an animal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, Christiane, does this kind of talk from President Trump influence President Putin at all, especially given that he denies that the Syrian regime was responsible for the chemical weapons' attack?

AMANPOUR: Look, I think we have to be very clear that this game of denying it is simply not a -- not relevant and it's not credible, because there's been precedent for the Syrian regime. They're the only ones who have that gas. And they're the only ones that have the delivery mechanism to do that kind of attack.

So, that is just a Russian-kremlin-Assad kind of thing that's meant to obfuscate and to distract from what's actually going on.

But I think what President Trump just said there is similar in more fluid (ph) language to what the Obama administration was saying. How can a leader, a security council, permanent member, a big power actually put its support toward somebody who is conducting the kind of war crimes that President Assad is?

They're trying to shame him into distancing himself. It did not work under the Trump -- the Obama administration. And it's not clear at all whether that rhetoric will work under the Trump administration.

So, you -- depending on who you're talking to, there are all sorts of advice to President Trump that, actually, you've got to go much harder after President Putin.

Not just on Syria and on Assad, but on what he's doing in Eastern Ukraine, what he's doing to destabilize NATO and the partners in the alliance. What he's doing, obviously, in the cyber war and hacking sphere, not just in, you know, hacking into the U.S. Democratic process.

But there has to be a real sense of really having a policy towards trying to stop President Putin and making it too expensive for him to keep that kind of policy going. [13:10:00] BLITZER: You know, I remember, Christiane, when you and I

were in Moscow at the end of 1991, when the papers were signed ending the Soviet Union, the collapse of the Soviet Union.

And there were such great hope at that time. The cold war was over. Things were about to move in a new direction. There would be good relations between the United States and Russia and the other former republics of the Soviet Union.

It hasn't exactly worked out all that great. Some of those republics, obviously, much better. But are the U.S. and Russia now in a new cold war?

AMANPOUR: Well, look, Wolf, you were there. We were all there. Actually, relations were much, much better for a long, long time. They started going south when President Putin succeeded President Boris Yeltsin.

And they did start going south, most notably, over the Iraq War. When Putin got very angry with President Bush about the Iraq War and things started to get very rocky then. And then, in the Obama administration, they went really south over the NATO strikes on Libya.

So, that's kind of the background. And then, Putin blames the United States, particularly Hillary Clinton, for the demonstrations and protests against his, you know, third election back in 2012. So, that is sort of the background. And, indeed, they blame the United States for what happened in Ukraine.

So, is there an official cold war? No. But is there a very, very bad and dysfunctional relationship between two very, very important countries? Yes. And, at this point, it is incredibly hard to see how to get it back on track because what President Putin wants is to be treated as the head of an equal power, a super power, that Russia is no longer, but nonetheless.

And wants to get back to this old notion of spheres of influence. Wants the west to say, OK, you win. You get all of Eastern Europe. You get all this stuff that you want in your backyard. And we won't have anything to do with you.

So, go ahead and keep Crimea, keep Eastern Ukraine and continue to mess around in that -- in that area. And, by the way, you want a foothold for the first time for 40 years in the Middle East? OK, keep Syria.

That's the problem right now. That it is this, sort of, war for influence that Moscow, under President Putin, thinks that is rightly his.

BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour joining us. Christiane, thank you very, very much.

We're waiting for the secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, and the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, to speak any time now. The meeting between Tillerson and Putin, that meeting has just wrapped up. We're going to have live coverage of you -- live coverage of that joint news conference. That's coming up right here on CNN.

Also coming up, why a phone call between President Trump and China's president might signal a new direction in U.S.-China relations and how to deal with North Korea's provocations.

Plus, lawmakers from both parties who have reviewed classified intelligence documents say they contradict surveillance claims made by the House Intelligence Committee chairman, Congressman Devin Nunes, and President Trump. The CNN exclusive report, that's coming up.

[13:13:00]

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[13:16:54] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're looking at live pictures coming in from Moscow right now. The U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, they will be holding a joint news conference any moment now, we're told. We'll bring it to you live. Stand by for that.

In the meantime, the China's president, Xi Jinping, spoke with U.S. President Donald Trump by phone last night. While Xi's government is publically calling for a, quote, "peaceful solution to the tensions" - and there are enormous tensions right now with North Korea. The call comes as the United States aircraft carrier strike group makes its way towards the Korean Peninsula.

CNN's Will Ripley is joining us from Pyongyang with details.

Will.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, tensions here on the Korean Peninsula are at their highest level in years. But now there are indications the tide may be turning when it comes to China's willingness to cooperate with the United States on the North Korean nuclear threat. President Trump tweeting this morning, "had a very good call last night with the president of China concerning the menace of North Korea." And for the first time, the Chinese government is acknowledging direct discussions about North Korea between Chinese President Xi Jinping and President Trump. It's the first time that China has actually acknowledged those discussions since the meeting last week at Mar-a-Lago between the two presidents.

Also significant, an editorial in the state-run "Global Times" in China saying that many in the Chinese public are growing fed up with the nuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, they're fed up with the tension and encouraging their government to enforce stronger sanctions against Pyongyang and North Korean Leader Kim Jong-un if he goes forward with this nation's sixth nuclear tests, which analysts in South Korea and the United States believe could really happen at any moment.

All of this unfolding as the USS Carl Vinson carrier strike group moves closer to the waters off the Korean Peninsula, 60 airplanes, submarines, a 97,000-ton aircraft carrier and these military assets equipped with nuclear weapons, which Pyongyang would certainly view as a threat. In fact, state media here threatened to retaliate with a nuclear strike if they are provoked by the United States.

Also word that Japanese warships may join the strike group, which could be very aggravated for the North Koreans, given the fact that Japan occupied the Korean Peninsula for many years prior to World War II. But so far Kim Jong-un has not conducted a nuclear test. What he will do moving forward, given the possibility of increased pressure from China, that's a big unknown right now.

Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Will, thank you. Will Ripley in Pyongyang, North Korea.

Other news, an exclusive report that you will find only here on CNN. Republican and Democratic lawmakers have now reviewed classified intelligence reports first brought to light by a House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes. And so far they have found no evidence that Obama administration officials did anything unusual or illegal involving alleged surveillance claims. This according to sources in both parties.

Our senior congressional reporter, Manu Raju, helped break this story for CNN, and joins us live from Capitol Hill.

Manu, this assessment from lawmakers directly contradicts Congressman Nunes and President Trump.

[13:19:57] MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Yes, that's right, Wolf. Devin Nunes, of course, coming out surprisingly last month and saying that he had reviewed private information that suggests some Trump team communications were picked up incidentally and shown in these intelligence reports, and raising concerns that some of the identities of U.S. individuals were unmasked, unfairly and improperly, and Devin Nunes' words, alarming. But now members of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees and their staff have gotten a chance to review those classified documents. And a number of them tell both me and our colleague Jim Sciutto that they do not see what Devin Nunes saw and they disagree with his conclusion that there was some alarming or untoward there.

Now, Wolf, just last month, Devin Nunes was pretty vocal about this, as was President Trump. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEVIN NUNES (R), CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: What I have read bothers me. I think it should bother the president himself and his team because I think some of it seems to be inappropriate.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's such a big story. And I'm sure it will continue forward. What they did is horrible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, one of the things that President Trump has said is that he believes that Susan Rice, the former Obama national security adviser, broke the law by her request to understand which individuals were having these communications with foreign officials. But the sources that we talked to on both sides of the aisle have yet to see the information, Wolf, that President Trump is talking about. They see - they've seen the information that Devin Nunes saw and it does not back up what President Trump has seen so far. The question is, what is President Trump referring to? What evidence is he looking at? That's something that he has not disclosed yet and neither has the White House, Wolf.

BLITZER: You're also, Manu, following new reporting on the former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, Carter Page. What can you tell us about that?

RAJU: Yes, that's right, Wolf. Now we are learning that Carter Page had been the subject of a warrant from the FBI, a FISA warrant, to monitor his communications starting last summer. This confirmation coming after James Comey himself, the FBI director, announcing last month that this investigation into Russia connections with Trump officials had begun in July of 2016.

Now, "The Washington Post" is reporting that there's a belief that among the FBI, and trying to determine whether or not Page was acting as an agent of a foreign power, and something that had come of interest to investigators was a contact that Mr. Page had with a Russian intelligence operative in July of 2013. Now, I had a chance to connect with Carter Page last night, and he's pushing back rather aggressively, Wolf. He says that he wants a chance to clear his name before the House and Senate Intelligence Committees. He said that this shows, quote, "how low the Clinton/Obama regime went to destroy our democracy." And going on to say, "it will be interesting to see what comes out when the unjustified basis for those FISA requests are more fully disclosed over time."

And, Wolf, I can tell you, he is someone that the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, they do want to speak with as part of this investigation. It probably will not happen right away as they're looking into other aspects of the Russia hacking of the elections. But when they do try to look into the connections that apparently occurred between some Russian officials and Trump officials, Carter Page will be at the top of the list as part of these private interviews. And even Carter Page saying to me earlier, he's willing to go public. We'll see what he says later today, though, Wolf, when he talks to our colleague Jake Tapper.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, he will. All right, Manu, thanks very much.

And Carter Page will be speaking with Jake later today on "The Lead." His direct response to all these reports now that he was monitored as part of an investigation into possible links with Russia. That's coming up, 4:00 p.m. Eastern on "The Lead" right here on CNN.

Coming up next, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson will be speaking shortly in Moscow with the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov. You're looking at live pictures coming in from Moscow. The two, they just wrapped up a nearly two-hour-long meeting with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, in Moscow. We're going to have live coverage of all of this. That's coming up.

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[13:28:49] BLITZER: You're looking at live pictures right now from Moscow as we stand by for a news conference. The U.S. secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, is there. His Russian counterpart, thee foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, is there as well. We're going to have live coverage of that as soon as it begins. They just wrapped up a meeting with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, just a little while ago. A meeting that took place as tensions over the U.S. missile strikes in Syria have strained - seriously straining relations with Moscow.

Let's bring in our panel for some insight. Our chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour is joining us once again from New York. We have our CNN military analyst, retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona with us, our CNN global affairs correspondent Elise Labott, and our chief political correspondent Dana Bash.

Dana, how would you describe the U.S./Russia relationship right now, so early in this new Trump administration? It wasn't supposed to be like this.

[13:29:43] DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. I think maybe in two words, scrambled and very tense. Look, it wasn't supposed to be like this, but I think, as we wait for the secretary of state to come out, what I'm thinking about and remembering, it wasn't that long ago that the president - fellow Republicans were very reluctant to confirm Rex Tillerson as secretary of state because they were so concerned that he was too cozy with Vladimir Putin and other Russian leaders. And that's because he did deals with them when he was CEO of Exxon