Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

U.S. Drops Bomb in Afghanistan; White House Press Briefing. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 13, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: All of this, Wolf, comes as the Trump administration, in fact, is considering the possibility of sending additional troops to Afghanistan, U.S. troops, to help train the Afghan forces even more, advise and assist them. They've been making progress against the Taliban, making progress against ISIS.

But still, it is a very -- after all these years, it is a very long road ahead for Afghan forces to take all of this on themselves. And we saw today that the U.S. was able to deliver what it believes was a very decisive blow to the ISIS forces there. But there will be reconnaissance missions over this site now so they can determine how much damage they really did. This is the first use in combat of this weapon -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We're just showing our viewers the video of the test of this Moab bomb back in 2003. And you see the plume of smoke that comes up after the bomb has been detonated. A huge, what, 21,000-pound bomb that has been used now for the first time in combat in Afghanistan.

And what you're saying, Barbara, is that they're now going through the damage assessment. Were they trying to destroy this tunnel? Were there people, the ISIS folks, inside? Do we have any idea what the actual target was?

STARR: Well, we are told the target is being described by the U.S. military and the coalition as a tunneled complex in this region. We believe there are also some caves there. I don't want to come to any, you know, snap conclusions. But this is an area of Afghanistan, dating all the way back to the Al Qaeda days of many years ago that has been laced with caves and tunnels where insurgents, whether they're Al Qaeda Taliban or now ISIS, have been able to retreat to over the years. And it's very close to the Pakistan border.

So, there's always the concern -- it's basically been the same concern over the years. You have these insurgent terror groups operating there and they can go back and forth across the border and you want to stop them before they can do that.

So, I suspect that's part of what was in play here. How many fighters were actually there at the moment? I mean, the U.S. would have conducted reconnaissance prior to dropping the bomb. They would have had a fair idea of what was there. They would have had some assurance to themselves that civilians were not in this very remote area.

But, you know, again, we're talking about something very extraordinary here. The first use ever in combat. We have the test for video we're showing you. But the first use infer combat.

So, they will have to conduct reconnaissance. Get some imagery of the site and calculate, actually, if this bomb did work as designed, as planned, as they expected.

First use ever, they've seen it on the test range, but now they have to see how it actually worked in battle -- Wolf.

BLITZER: As you reported, Barbara, just, what, last Saturday, a U.S. Army special forces' soldier was killed in that area. Although there's no indication as far as we can tell, at least not yet, that this strike today has any connection to that. What are you hearing?

STARR: Not hearing of any direct connection, Wolf. This special operations' soldier was operating with his unit and the Afghan forces in this region.

By all accounts, you know, forces still remain up in Nangarhar, the area, trying to push back these ISIS fighters. And it's not even clear that it's a massive group of ISIS, but they want to get them out of Nangarhar and push them back.

This area is an area where they have seen ISIS emerge as an affiliate organization. And many times, as we have seen over the years, these fighters essentially self-identify. They say, I'm ISIS. I'm Taliban. They affiliate themselves with these labels and these organizations, whether they, you know, at times go home to their villages during crop season or something, that is something that the U.S. has seen in the past.

But these people are identified as ISIS fighters, as an ISIS affiliates that emerged in Afghanistan. That's why U.S. troops were up there fighting. And they are trying to get the Afghan forces able to do it on their own, obviously.

But it's a very long road. And that's one of the reasons that the U.S., that the Trump administration, the pentagon are very quietly discussing sending additional U.S. military trainers and advisers to Afghanistan to try and beef up the capability of Afghan forces because the country is, basically, very fragile in many places, in terms of its ability to maintain its own security.

And they have to make sure that the Afghan forces can really be out there in front in these key areas or the ISIS comes back, the Taliban come back. They've been resurgent in the south in recent months. And even core Al Qaeda, you know.

[13:05:13] I think the lesson for the U.S. military has been over the years, it can all fall apart pretty quickly. So, they want to maintain a presence and they are considering asking the White House for additional troops to help do that. BLITZER: Very quickly, Barbara. This is the first time the U.S. has

ever used this Moab bomb, this 21,000-pound bomb, the largest nonnuclear bomb in the U.S. military arsenal. Hasn't used it years, in Iraq or Afghanistan or anyplace else.

How high up the chain of command would the authorization, the decision, the order to go ahead and use this bomb have to go? I'm specifically wondering if it has to go to the commander in chief?

STARR: Well, you know, these are always very difficult questions to answer because there's probably the bureaucratic answer and the common-sense answer. And the answer is we do not know, at this hour, so early on, whether President Trump particularly signed off on it himself.

What we do know is the four-star general, General Joseph Votel, head of the U.S. central command, had authorized the potential use of this weapon. So, we know it was at a four-star level.

When they found they had a target they wanted to go against, I think it would be common sense to think that the National Security Council adviser, General H.R. McMaster, who has had many tours in Afghanistan himself, would have been informed about this.

And then, it would have, again, common sense, had been up to General McMaster to inform the president that something very interesting was about to happen.

Typically, what you see in these cases is, on this level, on the four- star level, secretary of defense, chairman of the joint chiefs, national security adviser, these are very experienced officers and cabinet level secretaries. General -- Secretary Mattis a former four- star himself. They know when it's important to notify a president of the United States about a significant military event. They don't want President Trump hearing about it on the news, so I think it's pretty safe that we can make an assumption that President Trump would have known this was coming -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And which raises the question, why was this bomb never used before by the U.S. military?

STARR: Well, you know, it had been developed, as you say, about a decade ago, I think mainly with an eye toward a set of targets in Iraq back in the days of Saddam Hussein. But they never found the target clearly that they felt they wanted to go against.

This becomes a weapon that I think what is emerging here very quickly, a weapon that is really optimum for using in remote areas where you don't have to worry about civilians. But yet, your target essentially is a large footprint. It's not like you would just drop one 500-pound precision bomb against a group of ISIS fighters, a small group of fighters.

We see that day by day in Syria and Iraq. These are very narrow, narrow targets in very specific areas. But when you're going after a complex of caves and tunnels that may extend for some distance, a large footprint, this makes this weapon more optimum. It explodes in the area. It has a large blast area. And you presumably can cause the damage you want with just using this one detonation.

But, again, they're going to have to see, in the coming hours, if it did cause the damage that they hope it did -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Well, we're standing by to hear from Sean Spicer, the White House Press Secretary. He's about to have his daily briefing. I'm sure he's going to be asked whether or not President Trump personally, as commander in chief, authorized this first ever use of this Moab, this -- they call this mother of all bombs, a 21,000-pound bomb.

I want to go to Nick Paton Walsh. Nick, you've been in that region. Tell us a little bit about this area.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Remote, very hard to operate. And let me explain the history of action and why it's important to the group that we call ISIS and Afghanistan, they call themselves Islamic space in Holliston (ph). That's, kind of, a historical name for Afghanistan and Pakistan and the kind of kingdom they want to create for themselves there.

Now, action has always been ISIS's stronghold. And, in fact, it was, sort of, not far from there where some of the first pictures emerged of ISIS fighters we fought back in 2015. That's been a stronghold. It's where they kicked some locals out. It's where they've been hit by drone strikes repeatedly. And it's where the Afghan army moved in in the past year or so to try and kick them out.

They did a pretty good job of that but ISIS did return. That's always been the problem the Afghan army has faced. They can, with coalition support, take area. But they can't always hold it because of corruption, because of low morale, because of simply not having the resources they need, despite the billions spent them a year.

[13:10:09] This is also coming at an absolutely critical time for Afghanistan. The Taliban now contesting or controlling over half, some might say, of the territory of that country. Afghan security forces, I say, experiencing record casualties, too. Staggering numbers, frankly.

But ISIS have taken hold because of perceived tiredness with the Taliban insurgency. If you're young, you've seen the Taliban being the main insurgent to Afghanistan for decades, potentially. Now, if you're looking for fresh ideas, then ISIS perhaps can provide you that kind of branding.

That's where they crept up, in terms of popularity. Many say, in fact, they first came across the border from Pakistan has been the allegation from many Afghans a couple of years ago. But they brought with them money and resources. And that team (ph) was where they began to take hold and spread against Nangarhar.

Now, Nangarhar and places to the north are impossible to control territory. I've been to far-flung (ph) American outpost there. It was sadly later overrun. It's such a hard job to resist the Taliban there. They're embedded with the locals. They have local support.

Someone like Kachin (ph) has been the subject of drone strikes. But, Wolf, you have to understand, if you're going to use a bomb like this, you're pretty much saying, we can't send special forces in on the ground there.

And, of course, that obviously is the preferred tactic if you can tolerate the loss of life, because you get to assess, then, who you killed, what you found and gain intelligence from something like that.

But action very remote, out of government control most of the time. And I think, also, too, the fact that such munitions are being used against ISIS in Afghanistan perhaps gives you a snapshot of how the U.S. perceives that threat.

This is a group who have extended their reach into Kabul, attacking a key military (INAUDIBLE) just opposite the U.S. embassy. In the last month or so, attacking near the defense ministry, showing their metal, you might say, to those willing recruits, moving into the capital.

They're certainly on that front, I think, in ways that many had hoped when they were under attack, about 18 (ph) months ago, would not occur again.

The Taliban, too, accused by the U.S. of being increasingly close to Al Qaeda. So, there is a messy mix of extremists jihadists in Afghanistan. A collapsing, I think it's fair to say, government security project now in many parts of the country. I mean, things escape unnoticed sometimes, Wolf.

In Helmand, the vital town of Sangin where many U.S. Marines lost their lives holding the Taliban off from, that's fallen to the insurgency recently. So, so much changing in that country and I think, really, a ,sort of, proteomic (ph) signal here from the Trump White House of how valid, perhaps, they see the need to fight on in Afghanistan, painstaking as it already is now in the 16th plus year of America's longest war do they see the need to use munition like this to up the fight against a newer enemy in that country -- Wolf.

BLITZER: A very powerful message sent to ISIS troops -- ISIS terrorists in Afghanistan. And yesterday, the president, at his news conference with the NATO secretary general said that the president's national security advisor, General McMaster, was heading over to Afghanistan in the coming days.

General Marks, let's talk about this massive bomb, 21,000 pounds. This bomb dropped in Afghanistan. It's described as the largest nonnuclear bomb ever used in battle. Tell us about the bomb. You're familiar with it and its significance and the signal it sends.

GEN. JAMES MARKS (retired), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it sends a very powerful signal. If I can address several things both Barbara and Nick are absolutely spot on. Their reporting is really in depth.

But what you saw, the use of this bomb belongs in a category of a whole bunch of options that that combatant commander, General Votel, has available to him. This has been delegated to him to make the decision on its use.

First of all, the president of the United States, of course, knew about it. He didn't have to authorize it because it had already been authorized. And the Sec Def, Secretary Mattis, knew it was going to be used.

But they didn't have to go ask for permission. General Nicholson, in country, went to his boss, General Votel, and said, hey, boss, I'm about to do this. Recommend you allow me to do it. General Votel said, roger, go.

So, it was a choice that they made. Their -- clearly, with the target was a concentration of ISIS fighters in a consolidated area, underground tunneled area. And it was used for the passage both in and out of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

So, this, I would call, link-up point became target rich. You probably had a very large concentration and it made perfect sense, based on the time of day that they were going to attack, that they could have a massive kill in this area, not putting any special operators or any conventional forces at risk.

So, you drop this Moab. It explodes above the ground at a distance, depending upon what type of a shape and a blast you want to have. And, as described, it's a concussive blast. So, everybody underneath that thing is either obliterated, ears are bleeding or they're completely destroyed.

The key thing, at this point, is to go do battle damage assessment. There are multiple ways you can do that, as Barbara reported. You can do it through offset. You can do it through technical means. You can do it by imagery, et cetera.

What you'd like to be able to do is get folks on the ground to walk through what used to be tunnels and to see what damage took place. That has to be done very, very carefully because you would, obviously, put folks at risk.

The bomb itself is delivered by opening the ramp on the back of a C- 130. There's a parachute. It's parachute delivered. You release a parachute. It drags the thing out and then it's GPS guided. So there's a real level of precision in its use, yet it is an area weapon and it's got that target-rich -- you know, a rich target below it which really justifies its use.

BLITZER: First time ever in U.S. or anyone's military history, this kind of 21,000 pound concussion bomb has been probably used to call it has been used, this MOAB, as they -- they call it the mother of all bombs.

We're going to get more on the breaking news. Let's take a quick break. We're standing by to hear from the White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer. He's going to be briefing reporters. We'll get the president's take through Sean Spicer on the decision to go ahead and drop this bomb on this ISIS target in Afghanistan. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:10] BLITZER: We're back with the breaking news and we're standing by to hear from the White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer. Any moment now he's going to walk over to the lectern, make a statement, no doubt, and then answer reporters' questions. I'm sure reporters will want answers on the U.S. decision to drop what's call the mother of all bombs, a 21,000 pound bomb, on an ISIS target in Afghanistan. Did the president of the United States, as commander in chief, personally authorize this first ever use of this massive, massive bomb? The largest bomb that is not nuclear. It's the largest non-nuclear bomb in the U.S. military arsenal. And you show -- we showed you video back from 2003, test video, of this bomb as it was dropped from a U.S. Air Force plane and landed on a target and a huge plume of smoke developed. They're working on a damage assessment according to our Barbara Starr.

Dana Bash, as we await -- and we're showing our viewers the video right now. This bottom will be dropped from this U.S. Air Force cargo plane and as you see the bomb go down, once it hits, this huge plume of smoke develops. It will be interesting to hear if the president of the United States personally authorized the use of this bomb, the first ever use of this massive bomb.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That is going to be the question to Sean Spicer in this -- in this press briefing. He might even just come out and say it initially what the contact with the president was. As we heard from the general, from Barbara Starr and her excellent reporting breaking this, and others, it's not necessary vis-a-vis the chain of command. But given how impactful this is, given the fact that -- and you were saying during the break, Wolf, that this technology existed during his predecessor's time, Barack Obama's time, and they didn't feel the need to use it for whatever reason. So I think that is really the fundamental first key question to Sean Spicer.

The other thing I think, just kind of taking a step back, is that now we have in -- within the span of a week, President Trump, the guy who didn't -- wanted to sort of pull back when it came to being engaged abroad, dealing with Syria, with strikes, and then also launching, for the first time in U.S. history, this mother of all bombs. It is different. He did promise on the campaign trail to go after ISIS, you know, to the end of the earth and that is ostensibly what we are hearing from Barbara's reporting the whole reason for launching this bomb was, was to get at ISIS targets that they couldn't get at without it.

BLITZER: And, Chris Cillizza, we're waiting for Sean Spicer to come to the lectern there.

This is an important decision, I assume the president of the United States at least knew about it, if not personally said yes, do it.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Well, and we were talking about this yesterday, Wolf. The -- President Trump's recounting of his decision over a piece of chocolate cake with President Xi to say go on the tomahawk missiles. My guess is, though I defer to the general, my guess is certainly that he did.

I think the point Dana makes can't be overstated, which is, there is a clear difference here in approach. And this is a philosophical difference because this is something Donald Trump talked about on the campaign trail. This is not the willy-nilliness that we necessarily see. This is him making good on what he said, which is, our first priority is going to be to find and defeat ISIS. This is -- this administration, speaking of the Obama administration, has not been tough enough on them. We will.

I would also say, you know, Dana's right that the first and maybe most of the questions for Sean Spicer today will be about this. Had it not happened, a lot of the questions would have been about Steve Bannon and about Sean Spicer himself. So it shows you how these news cycles, I feel like we have ten pounds of news stuffed in a five pound bag regularly now.

BLITZER: I want to get some reaction. The Democratic congressman, David Cicilline of Rhode Island is joining us. He's a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressman, let me get your reaction to the first ever use of this massive -- let's call it this mother of all bombs, this 21,000 pound concussion bomb in Afghanistan.

Well, you know what, you're going to have to wait because Sean Spicer has just stepped up to the podium.

[13:24:15] SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Good afternoon.

As many of you are aware, there's currently some news breaking out of Afghanistan, so I just want to give you a quick update.

At around 7 p.m. local time in Afghanistan last night, the United States military used a GBU-43 weapon in Afghanistan. The GBU-43 is a large, powerful and accurately delivered weapon. We targeted a system of tunnels and caves that ISIS fighters used to move around freely, making it easier for them to target U.S. military advisers and Afghan forces in the area.

The United States takes the fight against ISIS very seriously and in order to defeat the group, we must deny them operational space, which we did. The United States took all precautions necessary to prevent civilian casualties and collateral damage as a result of the operation.

Any further details, I would refer you to the Department of Defense on that.

Moving on, as you may know from the schedule, the president has a 2 o'clock event, so I'm going to try to keep this rather tight so the pool has an opportunity to get in and set up appropriately.

SPICER: Earlier today, the president signed H.J.Res.43 bringing the total number of Congressional Review Act legislation pieces that he has signed now to 13. This resolution that he signed today overturns a regulation that was put in place by the previous administration on their way out the door that would have taken away the right of states to set their own polices and priorities for Title X Family Planning Programs.

Our federal system was set up to allow states to address the unique needs of their own populations when possible, especially comes (sic) to programs as important and sensitive as family planning. With the bill-signing, the president has restored respect to states' rights on this particular issue.

As I had mentioned at the top, there's an event at 2 o'clock, where the president will be meeting with the brave first responders who were involved in the I-85 bridge collapse, and thank them -- that occurred in Atlanta, to thank them for their work and dedication in addressing this horrible situation.

The bridge collapsed during rush hour on March 30, but due to the heroic efforts of Atlanta's first responders, some of whom will be here today, no lives were lost. The president's proud to host these brave individuals and honor their commitment to protecting their community.

Later this afternoon the president will head to Florida for the Easter holiday. He will be departing Joint Base Andrews via motorcade as the preparations for the Easter Egg Roll are well under way on the South Lawn, preventing a Marine One departure.

And while we're on the topic, I know it was brought up the other day, so just to give you a quick note from (sic) what to expect, this coming Monday we expect more than 21,000 people to attend the Easter Egg Roll. The allocations of tickets have been given to schools, children's hospitals, and military and law enforcement families.

Commemorative eggs will be handed out to the children who attend. Nearly 18,000 eggs were ordered, which is in line with past years.

The event will start at 7:30, with different groups of guests arriving every two hours to ensure that all the children have an opportunity to participate in more than a dozen activities that will be available.

Further logistics and guidance will be provided over the weekend. Also today, the Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Asset Control, OFAC, designed -- designated one entity and one individual connected to human rights abuses against Iranian political prisoners in Iran's prisons.

The individual who was designated for his role in abuses in Iran's prison is the brother of Qasem Soleimani, the commander of Iran's IRGC Quds Force, who was himself previously designated under terrorism, counter-proliferation and human rights authorities.

The sanctions against human rights abusers in Iran's prisons come at a time when Iran continues to unjustly detain in its prisons various foreigners, including U.S. citizens Siamak Namazi and Baquer Namazi.

We join recent calls by international organizations and U.N. human rights experts for the immediate release of all U.S. citizens unjustly detained or missing in Iran so that they can return to their families.

OFAC also designated two ISIS financial facilitators as ISIS supporter in northern (ph) Africa, continuing our ongoing effort to disrupt key leadership nodes for the group.

Moving on, over the past few days, the president and members of the Cabinet have held many meetings and discussions with their international counterparts about the significant foreign policy challenges facing our world.

Yesterday you heard from the president himself, alongside NATO secretary general (sic), about the need for a strong, funded alliance to combat terrorism, the humanitarian crisis ongoing in Syria, and many other serious threats to our collective safety and security.

Also yesterday, Ambassador Nikki Haley, along with her counterparts from nine other nations, voted in favor of a draft resolution to denounce the heinous chemical attack carried out by the Assad regime last week.

Unfortunately, but not surprising, Russia stood in the way of this resolution. However, I'd like to point out that -- the abstention of China on the heels of President Xi's recent successful visit, and Kazakhstan, a long-time Russian ally and former member of the Soviet Union.

Both of these abstentions are notable, and signify that the United States is persuading the world that the use of weapons of mass destruction cannot go unanswered.

Secretary Tillerson, as you know, was in Russia yesterday to meet with his counterpart and ensure that they are made fully aware of the United States positions in both areas of practical cooperation, such as defeating ISIS, and areas where Russia does not share our interest and values.