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After military strikes in Syria and Afghanistan, the Trump administration now keeping a sharp eye on North Korea; Howard Stern wants Sean Spicer fired; President Trump's signing legislation for women; Nikki Haley has emerged as a leading voice in administration's foreign policy; President Trump is president his mind on a lot of key political promises Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired April 14, 2017 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:31] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: After military strikes in Syria and Afghanistan, the Trump administration now keeping a sharp eye on North Korea.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
It's already Saturday morning in North Korea which is celebrating the birthday of its founder a day when it usually flexes its military muscle. These are live pictures, by the way. And a warning of merciless response if provoked by the Trump administration.
CNN has rare live access inside what's possibly the world's most isolated country, sometimes referred to the hermit kingdom. Our correspondent Will Ripley is live in Pyongyang, the capital city and we will check in with him very shortly.
But I have to tell you, as tensions rise around the globe, President Trump is at his Mar-a-Lago, his Mar-a-Lago club tonight. I guess that is not a surprised. It is the holiday weekend. But what you might find surprising is that the president has spent one out of every three-and-a-half days of his presidency at that resort, the same president who once said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If I get elected president, I'm going to be in the White House a lot. I'm not leaving. We have deals to make.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: As you will hear later in the show, President Trump has done a 180 on a lot of things lately, including that statement. The president likes to call Mar-a-Lago the winter White House. In fact, he started calling his club that before he was sworn in. I suppose he can call it whatever he likes. It's his golf resort.
But the truth is, there is only one White House. And yes, there it is. The people's house, built by slaves, paid for by taxpayers. And today, the White House announced something I think you should know about. They will keep the logs of people who visit the president secret, breaking with the precedent set by the Obama administers.
You can still see the Obama visitor record online, but you won't see the Trump visitor records, not now and not possibly for years, if at all. Makes you kind of wonder why, if there's nothing to hide. Just another thing that makes you go, hmm.
The administration says they are not making the logs public because of grave national security risks and privacy concerns and they say taking the public visitor logs down will save taxpayers $70,000 by 2020. $70,000 over three years. It cost an estimated $1 to $3 million every time the president takes a trip to Mar-a-Lago. Seven trips and counting so far. How is that for fiscal conservatism?
So I want to bring in now Joe Madison. Joe is the host of Sirius XM. And John Fredericks, syndicated talk radio host.
Good evening to both of you. So thank you so much. Listen, the president made, you know, he made multiple campaign promises this week. He now supports the export/import bank. He says China is not a currency manipulator and NATO is no longer obsolete. So how do Trump voters -- how are they feeling? What are they talking about? How do they feel about these flip-flops? John Fredericks, you first.
JOHN FREDERICKS, SYNDICATED TALK RADIO HOST: Don, thanks for having me. And to your viewers and everybody, Happy Good Friday and Happy Easter. And Joe, looking dapper as always. You are an amazing dresser. I have to say that. I aspire to you, Joe. One day I can get there.
Don look, Trump had a great week this week. The promises made are the promises he is keeping. Whether he said he was going to be unpredictable with what he did in Syria. He canceled TPP. He is going on and on and doing exactly what he say he was going to do up until today.
Now, those of us that know Donald Trump know this. You don't look at what he says. You look at what he does. You had Jeff Sessions going to the border earlier in the week. He said exactly what Donald Trump said in the campaign.
LEMON: John, just for --
FREDERICKS: He did that --
LEMON: Just because of time, all right, in the interest of time, my question was, what are your listeners saying about the flip-flops?
FREDERICKS: They are good with the bombing in Syria because that was the only action. There is a lot of talk, Don. I'll tell you this, though. If Trump were to go in to one of these Middle Eastern wars like send troops to Syria, his base, which is all he has right now, that's all he's got remaining, he has got about 35 percent approval rating and it's his base. His base would unravel faster than a cat playing with a ball of yarn. [23:05:03] LEMON: OK. And they have made that known to you. I got
to get Joe in.
LEMON: Joe, your listeners what do they think of Donald Trump 2.0?
JOE MADISON, SIRIUS XM HOST: Well, I think that quite honestly John just told the truth. His base is very, very upset. They don't want him in Syria. You have to remember, when Steve Bannon joined that campaign, it was America first. It was a very nationalistic campaign. And I think what has happened to Donald Trump because that's the other question, is that the world looks a whole lot different from the oval office.
Now, I'm somewhat surprised because what Donald Trump's other half is saying is that he is flexible. What my audience is saying, quite honestly, is this old term we used it a lot, he is flip-flopping. Now, why is he flip-flopping? I don't know. I think it's in large part because he has got two competing forces within the west wing, Bannon and Kushner. And they are at each other's throats.
LEMON: Yes. I want to talk about another radio guy because I say flip-flops on campaign promises. Some say that he needs to flip key advisers. I mean, the truth. Howard Stern, that's the other radio guy said that Sean Spicer should be fired for comparing Hitler and Assad. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD STERN, RADIO HOST: Spicer managed to make Assad look good yesterday. Like he actually got him to look like not so bad for using chemical weapons on his own people because the discussion became, Sean Spicer how could you not know that Hitler marched his own people, Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, he gassed his own people. He marched them into concentration camps and turned on what is in fact chemical gas. It is somewhat remarkable that a guy this high up in the administration wouldn't know this. And if I was Trump, I would have fired the guy that day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Look. The two guys know each other. I mean, Donald Trump was a regular on Howard Stern's show. Should he be let go, John? Should Spicer go?
FREDERICKS: Absolutely not. Look, the president told him he had 100 percent backing. Look. Sean Spicer made a mistake in the way he handled this, no doubt. But look. This is a veteran of the Navy. He has got a family. He has got two children. I know Sean Spicer for 20 years. There's not an anti-Semitic bone in his body. And look he just made a mistake. He was trying to --.
LEMON: I don't think the question is whether or not he was anti- Semitic. It's that he made a huge blunder and should he stay in that position. FREDERICKS: He made a huge mistake. But Don, here is what he did. I
know this town is a very unforgiving town. Somebody does something, everybody wants blood in water, heads to roll. But, look, he made a mistake. What did he do? He got on your network with Wolf Blitzer, right? Who is the son of two survivors of the holocaust. He looked right in the camera and he apologized. He made a sincere apology. I think he understands that he screwed up. He didn't say the right thing but he made an apology to the American people. I think we have to forgive and forget how much --
LEMON: Joe, how much longer does Spicer last?
MADISON: I don't think Spicer is going to last very long. And it's not just this mistake he has made. But, you know, Howard and I are on the same company with Sirius XM. And I'm in totally 100 percent agreement with him.
And quite candidly, I expect Trump to say, look, you know, you made a mistake. Look, John, let's be honest. The reason he went on CNN and the other shows is simply because he was told to clean that stupid comment up. And it's just something that a press secretary doesn't do. But it's his total performances. And when you talk to people and I do, who are in that Washington correspondent press corps, I'm telling you what they're saying. They have never seen anything like it. And I think his days are numbered.
LEMON: I have to ask you guys if your listeners are saying anything about what's happening in North Korea. Because there's concern that North Korea, a sixth nuclear weapon, they are having this big parade now, what you are looking at the pictures from North Korea.
Joe, you said, yes. What are they saying?
MADISON: Yes. Look. I think, and I have been listening very carefully. Let me tell you we are a hair trigger maybe away from World War III. This, first of all, this guy is nuts who runs North Korea. We all know that. I think both left and right agrees with that.
The danger is not so much a preemptive strike against the United States. But it would be a preemptive strike against Seoul. The reality, and think about this, this is a dictator who not only will have these weapons, but he could literally sell them to other entities and enemies of the United States.
[23:10:08] LEMON: I have got to get John in. John, what are your listeners saying? Because our reporter is getting ready. I may have to cut you off and he has limited time and he can be live with us. But what your listeners saying?
FREDERICKS: Don, I will be very fast. And Joe, Trump got elected on three things. Close the border, stop the illegal immigration coming in and this ridiculous trade deals the cause our jobs going overseas and get out of these wars.
If Trump gets involved in any of these wars, his base will unravel and the presidency of Donald Trump is at major risk. He has got to figure out how to get the hell out of there.
LEMON: The thing is you can't run foreign policy on whether your base agrees with you.
MADISON: Come on, man.
FREDERICKS: We have had years and years of these wars, and this president has to figure out how to --
MADISON: No. The Congress has to figure that out. John, we ought to be calling congress.
MADISON: And we should call them back into session right now.
MADISON: Can we agree on that?
FREDERICKS: Yes. Joe, absolutely. We have no AUMF. We have no declaration of war. We need to go to Congress. You are absolutely correct. If any action happens, Donald Trump has to go to Congress, make his case and get an AUMF. He has not done that. And that's what we need to do. Joe, you are absolutely correct.
LEMON: Let me ask you this. We have a little bit of time as will Ripley get ready in North Korea. President Trump has been distancing himself from Steve Bannon recently. Do you think the president should let him go? First you, Joe.
MADISON: Yes. How quick is that? I had a feeling. First of all, he should have never been there. That's my honest opinion.
FREDERICKS: No. Steve Bannon's departure would be a slap in the face to many people that believe in this administration.
MADISON: A bunch of white nationalists.
FREDERICKS: She's going to get rid of these leaks, right? But we need Steve Bannon there and I think his departure would be a real problem going forward.
LEMON: Even if he's not expanding the base? Even if he's possibly shrinking it, you think he should stay?
FREDERICKS: Here's how you expand the base. You stay out of wars, you get jobs. Done. That's what he has to do.
LEMON: OK. I have got to run. Gentlemen, thank you very much. I have to get to North Korea. Sorry. I appreciate it. Have a great weekend.
Thank you. You as well. Listen, CNN has rare live access inside North Korea. Possibly the
world's most isolated country. He is our correspondent Will Ripley is live for us in Pyongyang.
Will, hello to you. Give us the latest on what's going on and what's happening behind you right now.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, what's happening behind me right now is you are seeing the North Korean military. That the military band is playing throughout the parade.
What we saw a few moments ago, and I don't know it we have the tape, if we can cue it back up. But North Korea put its missile arsenal on display for this military parade. If you look here, there's some jets flying over overhead right now. If we could pan up, you can see with the colors of the North Korean flag.
The missiles that we just saw, Don, I'm not a missile expert, but I know we saw submarine launch ballistic missiles. We saw missiles that are capable of being launched from a mobile launcher. And just seconds before we came on the air, we saw this very large, what are believed to be intercontinental ballistic missiles. So these are the kinds of missiles that North Korea is testing and trying to perfect because what their ultimate goal is just to have an ICBM with a nuclear warhead capable of reaching the mainland U.S.
Most analysts say that they are not there yet. But you see from this arsenal rolling by that they are getting closer and investing a tremendous amount of their country's very scarce resources in developing these weapons.
So now what you are going to see happen, you see behind me, there are tens of thousands of people holding up this pink and red pompoms. These are the citizens of Pyongyang who have already been out here for more than five hours. And every time this country hold a big celebration, citizens are expected, you know, to leave their jobs, they come out, they came also to the square, the huge space in the middle of the city and they stand and they perform and they spend sometimes months rehearsing for these types of events.
This is what happens. This is what comes with the territory when you are somebody who lives in Pyongyang, North Korea. You are expected to be out here in all weather conditions to show your revolutionary fervor and send a very grand message to not only to the people in our own country and to your supreme leader Kim Jong-Un. But this is tailor made for the rest of the world to see as well.
LEMON: So Will, there's been escalating war of words between Washington and Pyongyang. A top North Korean official just said that this is a military parade marking the day, the day of sun where you are. If the U.S. does have any reckless provocation, we will immediately apply a destructive strike with our revolutionary power. We are prepared to respond to an all-out war with an all-out war and we are ready to hit back with nuclear attacks of our own style against any nuclear attacks. How much of this is real? RIPLEY: I will tell you, we know that the North Koreans are
responding to provocation from the United States where they consider provocations including tweets from President Trump. I was speaking with a government official here just in the last hour who told me, Don, that the special military operation that North Korea released pictures of a couple days ago as commandos jumping out of airplanes, they say that was in direct response to tweets from President Trump. This is the first time that we have heard this from the North Korean officials that they conducted a special operation exercise as a result of President Trump's tweets.
But, you know, the bigger provocative act in the eyes of the North Koreans is in waters of the peninsula. You have this terrorist strike group, the USSR (INAUDIBLE) with, you know, submarines equipped with nuclear missiles, 60 airplanes and 97,000 ton aircraft carrier. And analysts know that North Korea, they believe could be ready at any time to push the button on its six nuclear tests.
So the show of force that North Korea is showing today its citizens, these are now university students. You can tell they are university students by the uniforms they are wearing. Look at those giant statues up there of the two late leaders of North Korea. On the left (INAUDIBLE), on the right, Kim Jong-Il. That's the grandfather and the father of the current, Kim Jong-Un.
You see statues like this all over the city. There are portraits of the late leaders hanging up all over the city. This entire society is built to protect an image of power surrounding these leaders. And now the current leader, Kim Jong-Un. And the number one way that they like to show power to the rest of the world is by pushing the buttons on a nuclear test or launching a missile. And Kim Jong-Un has promised that a nuclear test will happen. Not a matter of if, but when. And he has also said that he will be launching more missiles because he wants a ballistic missile with the nuclear warhead that can hit anywhere in the mainland U.S.
And now, these are the citizens I was telling you about. Saturday is actually a workday here in North Korea. But these are people who are not at their jobs right now because they are out here. They are waving their balloons and their flags. They are screaming long live Kim Jong-Un. You will see tens of thousands of people doing this. Later on, they will do a big mass dance and then later on in the evening, all of the students will come out and do something similar.
This is what you are expected to do if you're a citizen in the North Korean capital. This comes with the territory. Because we know that the people who live in this city have a much higher living standard than people elsewhere in North Korea, Don.
LEMON: All right, Will. Thank you very much, will. And if you can, we will take your camera and just play a little bit of this hive. Will, thank you so much.
Just look at these live pictures coming from North Korea from Pyongyang behind our Will Ripley there. A huge parade right in the center of the square. Rare access, CNN, rare access inside one of the most secretive countries on earth.
[23:22:21] LEMON: In the aftermath of President Trump's signing legislation that would allow states to limit women's access to Planned Parenthood, Republicans senator Jeff Flake held a town hall in Mesa, Arizona last night and got an earful from a 16-year-old activist Deja Foxx. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEJA FOXX, SPOKE OUT AT SEN. FLAKE TOWN HALL ON PLANNED PARENTHOOD: I'm a 15-year-old from Tucson. I just want to say, so every young woman and every middle aged man -- in your life. I come from background of poverty. (INAUDIBLE). You come from privilege. So someone for -- who you are clearly not, why is it your right to take away my right? (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Joining me now is Deja Foxx.
Deja, thank you so much. You are 16 years old. First of all, thank you for coming on tonight. How did you get the nerve to get up there and say that to a senator, senator Flake?
FOXX: Well, we have a really strong base of support here, youth and Planned Parenthood pay patients in Arizona. There is plenty of support. And I had plenty of support that night from people who I care about. But more than that, it is just -- I can't sit idly by while women like me are countlessly and constantly being ignored on Capitol Hill.
LEMON: I want to play the Senator's response and then we will talk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: I have a lot of advantages that others haven't and I want is to make sure that everyone can realize the American dream that all of us have been successful at. So that's what I'm trying to do. That's why I support the policies that I support.
FOXX: And if no co-pay birth control is helping me to successful, to reach for high education, and Planned Parenthood is doing that as well. Why would you deny me the American dream?
FLAKE: Thank you. That's a great question. I wouldn't deny anybody the American dream.
FOXX: Then support Planned Parenthood.
FLAKE: Thank you.
FOXX: No, thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: What did you think? Do you think he addressed your concerns?
FOXX: Absolutely not. I think then and there he should have made a commitment to support women like me, to support women from low-income backgrounds and people of color and youth really. I don't think that he made any commitments. I don't think that he answered the question and I think the crowd felt the same way.
[23:25:01] LEMON: Well, the story here is that Senator Flake voted for a law that President Trump signed yesterday allowing states to deny certain federal funding to Planned Parenthood. So explain to me how you first became involved with Planned Parenthood and how you ended upstanding up at that town hall?
FOXX: Well, first and foremost, I'm a Planned Parenthood patient. When I was 15, I didn't have parents in my life and navigating the health care system was so difficult. I came to Planned Parenthood for my reproductive health care. And going there I felt comfortable. I felt taking care for and I had a place to ask the questions. And that really turned into something so much more for me. They provided me with leadership trainings and amazing mentors like Melissa Garcia. She is my local organizer and whom I love as a parent, really. And I have the opportunity to organize my fellow peers towards comprehensive sex Ed reform from my school district. And that showed me that my story and my voice were so powerful and that everyone's is. And I took that into town halls like Martha McSally's and Jeff Flake's to tell them my story. And why these are not just issues. They belong to people. These faces that they saw these town halls, they are real people, not pons in their political gains.
LEMON: Yes. We have a little issue with the satellite there. But hopefully we can correct it. There it is.
So when he was campaigning, candidate Trump said that he would be so good for women. How do you feel his politics regarding women's health care so far?
FOXX: Out of touch with us. He cannot claim -- an old white man that he can relate to me. And he is refusing to make a commitment to get to know my story, to get to know the story of women like me. And without understanding our story and our struggles, there is no way he can make good choices for us and represent us well.
LEMON: Yes. If you could speak with the president about your concerns, what would you say to him?
FOXX: Listen to people's stories. Each of us has a voice and each of us has a story. And Planned Parenthood is a part of my story. And it's a part of what's making me a leader in my community and what is going to bring me to Capitol Hill one day. So if I could say anything to him, I would tell him listen to the people. Our stories matter.
LEMON: Thank you, Deja Foxx.
LEMON: Absolutely. Thank you. LEMON: When we come right back, United Nations' ambassador Nikki
Haley talking tough and making her foreign policy stances clear, even when they contradict the president's own views.
[23:31:30] LEMON: CNN is taking you inside, giving you a rare look of a secretive country, North Korea. These are live pictures there you are looking at from Pyongyang. You can see there is a military parade going on. The question is, will had this be the sixth nuclear missile test from this very secretive and erratic country and leader? And that's what we are watching for here.
Military parade in the heart of Pyongyang under way right now where the regime is showing off its latest military arsenal here. These are pictures from state television that you are getting here where you can see thousands of people, soldiers marching in formation alongside tanks, balloons and enormous crowds and you also see them carrying the flags there. They are in formation now in North Korea. And this parade has been going on for quite some time.
They are doing this because April 15th, it celebrate the birth of their nation's leader, which is Kim Jong-Il son. Live pictures coming from North Korea, a very rare look inside this very secretive country.
In the first three months of Donald Trump's presidency, his ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley has emerged as a leading voice in administration's foreign policy.
I want to bring in now CNN's special correspondent Jamie Gangel.
You sat down one on one with Nikki Haley, what did she tell you?
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we talked about her relationship with Donald Trump and also secretary of state Rex Tillerson to see if he minds that she is in the spotlight so much. But you know, she is the rising star of this administration. And no one is more surprised than she is that she is center stage.
GANGEL (voice-over): From condemning the chemical attacks in Syria --
NIKKI HALEY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: Look at those pictures.
GANGEL: To her aggressive stance on regime change.
HALEY: Strengthening Assad will lead to more murders.
GANGEL: U.N. ambassador Nikki Haley has taken center stage as the leading voice of foreign policy in the Trump administration. Not afraid to speak her mind --
HALEY: For those that don't have our back, we are taking names.
GANGEL: Or contradict her boss.
HALEY: Russia is trying to show their muscle. I don't think that we can trust them.
GANGEL: Has he ever said to you, you shouldn't have said something?
HALEY: No, he has not.
GANGEL: Are you surprised that he has never?
HALEY: I'm not surprised because he knew that when he hired me that I have made it clear, I didn't want to be a wall flower or talking head. I'm very passionate by nature and he is fine with it.
GANGEL: How much of it is coordinated with the White House and the state department?
HALEY: Well, it's always coordinated with the White House.
GANGEL: You're not going broke? Rogue?
HALEY: No. I would never go rogue because I'm very aware of who I work for. And what I tell you is it's a sign of how this president works. It's not uncommon for him to pick up the phone and tell me what he feels on an issue. It's not uncommon for him to say, make sure you say this, don't be afraid to say this.
He has given me a lot of leeway to just say what I think and interpret what he thinks. I'm a strong voice by nature. I'm sometimes a bull in a China shop. And you know, he allows me to do that.
GANGEL: Friends say that same strength and independence served Haley well growing up in Bamberg, South Carolina. The daughter of Sikh immigrants from India, her father was a professor, her mother a lawyer. But the family suffered constant discrimination.
[23:35:01] HALEY: They had never seen anybody in a turban. They have never seen anybody in a sari (ph). So they didn't know who we were, what we were or what we were about. And so, growing up was -- you always knew you were different. You felt it.
GANGEL: One such memorable moment, when she and her sister were disqualified from the little Miss Bamberg beauty pageant which crowned one white winner and one black winner. The judges said they were neither.
HALEY: My mom said, well, Nikki has been practicing this song. Will you at least just let her do her song? And it was this land is your land, this land is mine.
GANGEL: There's the irony of the story.
HALEY: Buy my mom would never let us complain. And she would always say your job is not to show them how you are different. Your job is to show them how you are similar. GANGEL: Haley went on to get her accounting degree at Clemson,
married her husband, Michael, who is a captain in the South Carolina army National Guard and raised two children. Her daughter, Rena, now a freshman in college and her so, Nalen (ph), who is 15. Along the way she credits two women with her interest in politics.
GANGEL: Your role model, you frequently say is Margaret Thatcher.
HALEY: Yes. Do you want something said, is ask a man. If you want something done, ask a woman.
GANGEL: But the woman who inspired you to go into politics, to run was a Democrat named --
HALEY: Hillary Clinton.
GANGEL: One day she went to hear her speak.
HALEY: And she said for every reason people tell you not to do it, that's every reason you should and that was it. I was done. I didn't know you weren't supposed to run against, you know, a 30-year incumbent in a primary. But ignorance is bliss.
GANGEL: She won that race, served in the statehouse. Then went on to break two barriers becoming the first Indian American and first woman governor of South Carolina.
HALEY: So help me God.
GANGEL: Overnight, she was a rising star in the Republican Party. Thrust on the national stage after the horrific mass shooting at Charleston's mother Emanuel AME church.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone just wanted to hug her. There was an image of Nikki crying.
GANGEL: And then she won praise for her successful campaign to remove the confederate flag from the statehouse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nikki Haley did something that man people though was impossible. Female running for governor and she beat all the boys. And she always persevere.
GANGEL: Her star power and clout were never more apparent than during the presidential campaign when she endorsed Florida senator Marco Rubio. And many thought this could be the GOP ticket.
Donald Trump did not take it well and he went on twitter. The people of South Carolina are embarrassed by Nikki Haley, exclamation point, and not 20 minutes later, you responded quote "@realDonaldTrump, bless your heart." What is bless your heart mean when you are from South Carolina?
HALEY: It's a southern polite way of saying read between the lines.
GANGEL: Trump didn't hold it against her, naming Haley his U.N. ambassador and it appears he is pleased with her high public profile.
GANGEL: Is there any tension with secretary of state Tillerson. He has been so quiet. He has kept such a low profile. And you have been out there. Any awkwardness?
HALEY: I think it's just the personalities, you know. He is very much an executive. He is thoughtful in his approach and how he moves forward. I'm one that's not afraid to say anything. You know, I'm not easily intimidated. And so, I can go out and say things. I think we complement each other very well.
GANGEL: It has, however, led to speculation that someday Haley might like his job or higher office.
Everybody I talk to says, does she want to be secretary of state?
GANGEL: Do you want to be senator?
GANGEL: Are you going to run for the White House?
GANGEL: You're not going to run for the White House? Everyone thinks you are.
HALEY: You know what's amazing. And this has happened my entire work career is everyone thinks that I'm ambitious and everybody think I'm trying to run for something and everybody thinks I want more. And the truth of it is, I'm just passionate.
GANGEL: But you wouldn't rule out that someday you might run for the White House?
HALEY: I can't imagine running for the White House.
GANGEL: You really can't?
HALEY: I really can't.
LEMON: Not going to run, really?
GANGEL: She may say that, but nobody else in politics, Republican, democrat thinks that someday she is not going to run.
LEMON: Why does he give her so much leeway? Because she opposed him. And other people who would oppose him, he has not brought them, you know, into the fold. Why give her so much leeway?
GANGEL: So clearly, I mean, you heard her say in the piece that she is not going rogue. But she talks to him a lot. When we interviewed her, she had already spoken to him three times that week. She says he trusts her instincts. You know, there's been so much chaos elsewhere in the administration. Clearly she's been out there. But what she says he likes on Syria. One day she said at the U.N. and the next day they said it at the White House.
One thing she has to be careful of. I'm not sure Donald Trump loves it when people out-shine him. So, so far so good. But let's see how it goes down the road.
[23:40:23] LEMON: That's very smart insight that you have. Thank you, Jamie. I appreciate that.
I want you to stick around because when we come back, the president changing his mind on a lot of key political promises, we are going to get you up to speed on his latest views, next.
[23:44:33] LEMON: The end of a very big week for President Trump. Back with me now Jamie Gangel and we are joined by CNN's Fareed Zakaria, the host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS."
So Fareed, it's been a week full of palace intrigue. A lot of we have talked about, you know, during the week, you and I have talked about. Is this a government that President Trump's voters expected?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN GPS HOST: No. I think that in some reasons the big surprise which is the businessman's CEO was going to run things better than all the politicians is discovering that government is actually very complicated. And that there is no real parallel.
I mean, I have often argued that the CEOs have no idea how complex government is. A CEO has complete control of his organization or her organization. They have this incredible incentive structure where you can pay people bonuses. You can cut their pay and you can fire them. So you have those two things, your total control and you get people to do what you want. Washington couldn't be more different. Nobody is in-charge.
You know, you think your secretary of defense and you are running the defense department. Well, welcome to the generals who think they are running it. Welcome to the house appropriations committee, the armed services committee. They will think they are giving you the money and the oversight (ph). Welcome to the 25-year-old kid in the White House who thinks he is going to tell you what the president's policy is. And you have to navigate all of that. And I think what Trump is realizing is this is very hard and it's very hard to get all your ducks it a row to align them, to conceive of a policy that is then going to move through Congress, get executed.
I mean, what you have seen even in a good week like this, where Trump in many ways moved to a sensible policy on many things. You know, you still have the cacophony of three different people saying three different things. And you can imagine the world wondering, what do we rely on? [23:46:16] LEMON: When you said we have to think about it, I would
say mixed week. Because we have palace intrigue. When you say the 24-year-old in the White House, tell me what the policy should be. We have like a 30-something in the White House and I'm talking about Jared Kushner, right, now.
Steve Bannon on the out has gone from chief strategist on the outs now. Jared Kushner is getting a lot of play. This is the first 100 days -- within the first 100 days. Are we seeing a shift in who is going to be around the president in his inner circle?
GANGEL: I think there's no question that we are seeing a shift. And I think the other thing is, the 100-day mark is very important to Donald Trump because what does he like to do? He wants to win. He wants to have success.
LEMON: He like his ratings period, sweeps.
GANGEL: This is it. This is it. We have not heard about polls. Remember how in the campaign he would talk about his ratings.
LEMON: He was bringing the polls to interviews.
GANGEL: We have not heard anything about his poll numbers. Then he had health care. And I don't think it's much of a surprise that we are seeing a shift in the people around him because it's not working. So he is going to find things that work. And if that means that Steve Bannon goes, look, we have all discussed there's a danger. Is it more dangerous having him outside the White House than inside the White House? What about his base? Bottom line, I think Donald Trump cares about racking up those wins. If he thinks he is better off without Steve Bannon, then we may see a slow exit.
LEMON: Maybe the evidence of that is that, can we call this a week of you turns, right, where he said one thing and he is on another. And let me just give you some of them and you can talk about it. Flip- flops, I think you call them that. He now sports the export/import bank. He says China is not a currency manipulator. He says he might keep Federal Reserve chair Janet Yellen and now he says NATO isn't obsolete. And on top of all that, he dropped two bombs this week. How would you describe the Trump doctrine right now?
ZAKARIA: (INAUDIBLE), the council on foreign relations have his foreign policy doctrine seems to be nonintervention unless when I'm watching CNN I get moved. In which case, I will change my mind.
But I think that really, in all those cases, that's what I meant by Trump's good week is that he has moved to a more sensible policy. There were a lot of crazy things he said during the campaign. And many of us watched with horror thinking he might actually implement them. And in almost all, the everything you read, I think basically that he has moved to the right place.
The problem is, I think allies particularly and frankly people in America also are looking to the president of the United States for a certain degree of clarity and consistency. Now, Trump embraces the fact that he is constantly changing his mind. He says, look, I'm a very flexible guy. I'm proud of my flexibility. But how to make sense of a flexibility that says I said NATO is obsolete, now it's not obsolete. And he embraces the new position with a kind of bizarre enthusiasm as if he had never taken the oath.
LEMON: He says he believes the world has changed. The world hasn't changed.
GANGEL: But he's --
ZAKARIA: How the world -- that's why I think Sean Spicer gets into trouble. There is one consistent thing. There is one consistency and David From actually makes this point on my Sunday show. He is still very much a unilateralist. Whatever he does, he does without alliances. He does without consulting people. So if you think about the strikes, you know, frankly Syria had violated a U.N. agreement. He could have taken it to the Security Council. The Russians might have vetoed that you have gotten, certainly the other allies onboard in Afghanistan, in North Korea, all these places you want to be, particularly North Korea, you want to be with the South Koreans. You don't want to be out ahead of the country that will face the brunt of any kind of response. That part Trump remains very much a kind of America loner.
[23:50:14] LEMON: Yes.
GANGEL: And the other thing I just want to say is every president has a learning curve.
LEMON: You took the words out of my mouth. But this is steeper because he is not steeped in world affairs.
GANGEL: He has never had the experience of government service. And let's face it, he is -- to say he is not steeped in foreign affairs is kind. He really doesn't know some of the basic facts of what has been going on. But at least his flexibility or his flip-flop or his U-turn means that he appears, at least for this week, to be learning, trying, adjusting.
LEMON: But if you want to read the people around him.
ZAKARIA: But one would hope, though, that this will help him and the American people understand that this kind of bravado of saying, I'm from the outside, I'm a businessman, all these problems are easy. If you just put me in, I alone can fix them. It's all nonsense. These problems actually are very hard. If there was a simple fix, somebody would have done it. And Donald Trump is now going through the most expensive education in American history.
LEMON: It is so interesting to me because you have been saying that and many people have been saying it. And you know, you are a Trump hater. You are overly critical with the president when you have just been telling the truth. And here it is. Now, he is learning, learning on the judge. Reality is right in his face.
Thank you. I appreciate it. Make sure -- I'm looking forward to "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" Sunday at
10:00 p.m. eastern. I hope you all too. Make sure you watch.
We will be right back.
[23:55:31] LEMON: It's been ten years since we started CNN heroes to recognize everyday people changing the world. And we are proud that many schools have incorporated the campaign into their curriculum. Brian O'Connor, fifth grade teacher in New York State has found a unique way to connect his students to these extraordinary individuals. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRAIN O'CONNOR, CNN HEROES: Throughout our school year, we will set up several Skype calls with various heroes. They are a celebrity to my kids and as they should be. The kids come up with amazing questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long did it take you --?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is it different --?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever feel --?
O'CONNOR: When I see how excited that fifth grader is, it makes me realize that, you know, we are doing something right in here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You see the full impact of "CNN Heroes," go to CNNheroes.com. And while you are there, nominate someone you think should be 2017 CNN's hero.
That's it for us tonight. Thanks for watching.