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Massive U.S. Bomb Dropped in Afghanistan; President Trump On Bomb Drop; U.S. Bomb Kills ISIS Members; Global Tensions Flare. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 14, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: -- around the world, thank you so much for joining us.

Tensions are flaring in many places around the globe, following U.S. military actions under President Trump. Just take a look at this map. You see the red areas. They show where the U.S. military is ramping up its presence or taking action. All of this before President Trump marks his 100th day in office.

At this hour, we have brand new video of that massive bombing in Afghanistan. What you're watching is the exact moment that America's most powerful nonnuclear bomb, dubbed the mother of all bombs, struck an ISIS cave and tunnel complex. U.S. military officials, at this point, defending its use.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JOHN NICHOLSON, COMMANDER, RESOLUTE SUPPORT AND U.S. FORCES AFGHANISTAN: This was the right weapon against the right target. I want to assure the people of Afghanistan that our forces take every possible precaution to prevent civilian casualties.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Meanwhile, in Moscow, the foreign ministers of Russia, Iran and Syria are reacting to last week's U.S. strike on a Syrian air base, warning U.S. actions could, quote, "threaten the current world order."

This as the U.S. faces a new threat from North Korea. That country now vowing a merciless response that would leave no survivors to any U.S. provocation.

The threat is coming amid growing concerns that Kim Jong-Un could mark an important holiday with yet another nuclear test. And if he does, there's a chance that Vice President Mike Pence could be just across the border when it happens because he is scheduled to arrive in Seoul on Sunday.

We are covering this story only as CNN can. We have reporters spread across the globe from Moscow to Seoul and beyond.

I want to begin now with the latest on that bombing in Afghanistan. And Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr who is live for us from the Pentagon.

Barbara, this is the first time that this kind of bomb has ever been used in combat. Is the military considering this a success?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: For now, yes, Brianna. When you look at that combat video that the Pentagon released earlier today, you see the impact there in this deep mountain valley in Eastern Afghanistan. This is a weapon that can take out the equivalent of nine city blocks.

What we know is they were going after a complex of tunnels and caves in this area. A very remote region. They were going after a contingent of ISIS fighters. They feel they got that. They feel there were no civilian casualties, no reports of civilian casualties, at this point.

And it wasn't about sending a message as some people speculate to North Korea, we're told. It was about sending a message to ISIS. There are some up to 800 ISIS fighters in Afghanistan and this message is, take a look at this video, this is what we can do to you.

So, they feel, at this point, it was. And there seems to be, for now, no pushback from the Afghan government -- Brianna.

KEILAR: What about this news, Barbara, that the defense secretary is going to be visiting the Middle East here soon?

STARR: Defense Secretary Mattis, the Pentagon announced a short time ago, is on his way to the region. Let me just tick off some of the countries he's going to, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel, Cutter and Djibouti in the horn of Africa. Of course, Djibouti where there is a U.S. base where there is a good deal of counterterrorism effort being launched out of that base in North Africa.

Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Israel, they'll be talking about security in the region. There may be additional stops for Secretary Mattis in the region that they will not announce, at this point, but we're going to have to wait and see on that -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Barbara Starr.

I want to get, now, to Jessica Schneider. She is in West Palm Beach, Florida. This is, of course near the president's Mar-a-Lago resort where he's spending the weekend.

And, Jessica, so much going on right now. How is the president monitoring all of this?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, we know that several National Security Council staffers have traveled to Mar-a-Lago with the president this weekend. We know that they'll be keeping him briefed and informed as situations happen around the world, perhaps.

We do know that while it isn't the White House, itself, Mar-a-Lago, the resort, does have a secure room for the president to receive classified information. A secure area where he can get all this information from his National Security Council staffers.

We know that it does have video conferencing technology as well as other classified features. In fact, this was the same room where President Trump was located when those Syrian strikes were happening just last week when he was here.

So, obviously, President Trump keeping abreast of every situation through his National Security Council. But, Brianna, interesting to note that right now, President Trump is, once again, hitting the golf course.

Our photographers have captured him at the Trump International Golf Course right here in West Palm Beach. We know that this is actually his 17th trip to one of his golf courses since he took the presidency -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Jessica Schneider and Barbara Starr, thank you.

Now, President Trump was asked this morning if the bombing in Afghanistan was meant to send a response to North Korean dictator Kim Jong-Un and here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:05:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does this send a message to North Korea?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know if this sends a message. It doesn't make any difference if it does or not. North Korea is a problem. The problem will be taken care of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's Alexander Field is in Seoul, South Korea. She is following the latest developments on the escalating tensions.

ALEXANDER FIELD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, Washington is prepared for the possibility of another nuclear test, a sixth nuclear test from North Korea at any moment.

White House officials have said that the president, who will send the weekend at Mar-a-Lago, is getting regular updates on the situation on the Korean Peninsula. That as Vice President Mike Pence makes his way to the region. He'll be stopping in Seoul, South Korea and also Tokyo, Japan, where he'll meet with leaders to discuss a variety of options that are on the table when it comes to confronting the growing North Korean nuclear threat.

Those options, of course, do include a military option as the White House has said. That's something that draws a lot of concern for people here in South Korea. They do depend on the U.S. for security and protection, but they also fear retaliation from North Korea.

U.S. war ships have been sent to the waters off the Korean Peninsula as a sign of deterrence for North Korea. North Korea reacting strongly to the presence of those ships, saying that strategic nuclear equipment threatens global peace, that it threatens global security, and that it could bring the region to the brink of thermos-nuclear war. Strong words from Pyongyang.

Part of the propaganda that they've put out this week that includes images of their leader, Kim Jong-Un, leading training exercises of their special forces. That on the day before the most important day on the North Korean calendar. That is the day of the sun which commemorates the founder's birthday.

It's important to the rest of the world because we know that Pyongyang has taken the opportunity of having this holiday to plan other provocative actions around it. They consider it to be a show of strength, a message to the world.

And we know that, right now, the world is certainly watching -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Alexander Field in South Korea, thank you.

Russia, Syria and Iran united today in their criticism of the U.S. missiles strikes on the Syrian air base last week. In a joint press conference, Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov says, we confirmed our position.

It's a united position and it consists of our condemnation of the attack on a sovereign state and we demand that the United States should respect the sovereignty of a state and avoid such actions that threaten the current world order.

Very big words there. CNN Senior International Correspondent Matthew Chance has been following that story. He joins me now from Moscow. This was a warning.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it was. It was a warning. It was a strong show of unity to -- from Syria's military allies that, despite the pressure that they've been put under by, for instance, the U.S. missile strikes on that Syrian air base last week, they're still standing shoulder to shoulder. No sign from either the kremlin or from Iran that they're prepared to back down on their Syrian ally.

Of course, Rex Tillerson, U.S. Secretary of State, had come to Moscow within the past few days and had been pressing the kremlin to try and turn their back on their Syrian ally. But there's absolutely no sign of that happening as well as that show of unity.

Very strong words coming from the foreign minister in a joint press conference. Afterwards, Sergey Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, said that the United States should respect the sovereignty of Syria, should respect international law.

He also said that attempt at regime change will fail. And he was talking, then, about that missile strikes -- those missile strikes last week, saying that that would not deter the Russians, essentially, from standing shoulder to shoulder, as they say, with their Syrian ally, Bashar Al Assad -- Brianna. KEILAR: Matthew, it's interesting because you think back to Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine and calling for a respect of the sovereignty of a state was something that Lavrov would have been on the receiving end of.

CHANCE: That's right. Well, they're saying he's a bit of hypocrisy. He's the compliment vice place (ph), the virtue. And you're absolutely right. I mean, the Russians are being accused of violating the territory -- well, the did violate the territory integrity and the sovereignty of Crimea -- of Ukraine rather, of annexing Crimea in 2014.

They've also been engaged, of course, in a brutal conflict, fueling rebels arming them and actually deploying troops to Eastern Ukraine as well.

And so, yes, the critics would say it's very rich that Moscow would take a different standard to Syria. But, nevertheless, that's its position. It's invested billions of dollars and millions of tons of weaponry and bolstering the Syrian ally, Bashar Al Assad.

And despite growing U.S. pressure now for them to distance themselves from Damascus, they're showing no sign any inclinations towards doing that.

KEILAR: Matthew Chance reporting for us from Russia. Thank you so much.

Now, about 40 more American troops are headed into Somalia. They're going to join approximately 50 U.S. special forces who are already there to help train and support local forces battling the Al Qaeda affiliate, Al Shabaab. They will not be deployed to areas considered to be actively hostile, we are told.

[13:10:11] The training comes as military leaders see new opportunities to work with Somalia's newly elected president, a U.S.- Somalia citizen, to help fight terrorism.

And coming up, what is behind President Trump's more aggressive foreign policy strategy and will Congress intervene? We'll discuss that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: CNN has new video of the very moment that the U.S. dropped that massive bomb on an ISIS target in Afghanistan. This is the moment of impact.

It's a weapon that is the most powerful nonnuclear bomb the U.S. has in its arsenal. And you're witnessing what is the first time that it has ever been used in combat. We had only seen it tested before.

And according to Afghan officials, this blast killed 36 ISIS fighters. No civilians, they say. It also wiped out three tunnels used by the terror group and it destroyed weapons and ammunition. Joining me now to discuss, we have David Gregory, CNN Political

Analyst, and Colonel Cedric Leighton. He's a CNN Military Analyst and former member of the Joints Chief of Staff.

OK. So, first off, the word from ISIS is they're saying that there were no casualties. Your reaction to that.

[13:15:03] COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think that's patently false. It's pretty clear somebody had to have died in this -- in this scenario.

The reports from the Afghan government and the coalition know that 36 died so far but -

KEILAR: So why are they saying that? Just to minimize it?

LEIGHTON: Because - I think it's to minimize it and I also think, Brianna, that it shows that they believe that it - if they say that it didn't hurt anybody, then they can have a greater effect in their - in their propaganda wars.

KEILAR: It's become clear, David, that while President Trump was told, I mean notified, that this was going to happen, that this is something that the military has had some - they've had more latitude in making decisions and in a way maybe informing the president they're going to do something. Perhaps they know it's in line with whatever his goal is. But this is a change.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think there's some debate about that. I mean just among our colleagues here who are former military at CNN, I think there's a feeling that if there had been a situation that arose and good enough intelligence for a restricted area to use the MOAB bomb for - during President Obama's time they might have done that as well. I mean I think there are unique challenges that are presented by the fact that you have not only the Taliban but also ISIS fighters in Afghanistan. My goodness, we've had troops there since 2001. So any opportunity to use this kind of ordinance and spare the lives of our soldiers going into a remote area on a kind of search and destroy of ISIS fighters I think would be welcome. And if it was effective, then that's great.

And I think there's no question there was an added benefit to making a political statement to those who might be watching this new administration to see that it certainly isn't afraid to use force against ISIS, which is promised to do. Syria, which was more unexpected. And now we have this problem with North Korea.

KEILAR: Observers want to know what the bigger picture is when it comes to Donald Trump and foreign policy and what his approach to ISIS is. So let's go back to his campaign promise on what he would do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me. I would bomb the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of them. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I mean, isn't that sort of what we've seen? So what do we take from what we have heard? And what do we take from what we are seeing now? And what can we piece together about where this is going, if anywhere?

LEIGHTON: From my standpoint as a former military person, I think Donald Trump is learning that the military can actually be trusted, that they are competent. In fact, he's even said as much. And that they are capable of carrying out missions if given the direction and, in essence, given unfettered abilities to carry out missions that they're been charged with.

KEILAR: Then what's the down side there, though?

LEIGHTON: The downside is that they can get carried away with it and I think in - frankly with the George W. Bush administration, I think he trusted the military too much and it sounds a bit strange for a military person to say that, but I think there were a lot of military people that let George W. Bush down. Gave him perhaps a bit of a - too rose a picture when it came to Iraq and Afghanistan and that might be one of the possible downsides here.

GREGORY: But there's a lot of continuity in his policy against ISIS. I think that's the other thing to remember. I mean, you know, taking a clip from Donald Trump on the campaign trail where he sounds both ill- informed and overly military. If you boil that down you realize, of course he doesn't know more than generals. And, in fact, as president now, he's seeded a lot of ground to his generals and put into place a really good national security team and we're seeing that in terms of his - the advice that he's getting and the actions that he's taking.

But President Obama, of course, initiated this policy against ISIS, primarily a bombing policy working with the Iraqis, putting special operators on the ground in Iraq, and ISIS continues to be degraded in terms of its strength over and hold of an actual caliphate. So this is a continuation -

KEILAR: But the situation in Afghanistan had deteriorated -

GREGORY: Right.

KEILAR: As we saw moving out of the Obama administration. That was sort of the ending legacy of the Obama administration. Is there a bigger strategy here? Is this a repudiation at all? Is it too soon to say of President Obama's approach to this?

GREGORY: I don't - can I just say, I don't see that in Afghanistan. Look, we have a now - we're approaching, you know, two decades in Afghanistan and it's really, really hard because the idea of counterinsurgency I think worked only to a point. I think you still have elements of corruption in a central government that doesn't control the countryside. You have a resurgent Taliban that's got to be part of the government in the future. So I think these are really hard problems. And I don't know that President Trump or his team have worked out, OK, how do we, you know, affect this policy going forward. I think the issues with Afghanistan and neighboring Pakistan and India are separate from some of these issues that he's going to deal with more acutely with ISIS in Syria and Iraq.

[13:20:01] KEILAR: What do you think?

LEIGHTON: I think all of that is actually quite true what David is mentioning. The key thing here is that, you know, when you have a situation like this, you've got an opportunity to develop a completely new strategy. I agree that we haven't developed that or the administration hasn't -

KEILAR: Are we going to see that though?

LEIGHTON: I think we have to see that.

KEILAR: Is this part of that?

LEIGHTON: This is a great way to start it. If you take the different pieces and put them together, the more aggressive approach in Syria, the more aggressive approach with North Korea, all of these things become part of a larger, more aggressive stance, which President Trump kind of alluded to during his campaign.

GREGORY: And I think this - look, if you're going to drop a huge bomb, if there's an opportunity to do this and it sends a wider political message, you know, beyond just Afghanistan, but if you have ISIS fighters in Afghanistan who are starting to join forces with the Taliban, you've got to root that out. And I think - this - I don't think the military would have used this particular bomb, this ordinance, if they didn't have really good intelligence about what was there, who was there and how contained it was to use this kind of ordinance in terms of what it does.

KEILAR: Thank you so much. Colonel Leighton, David Gregory, really appreciate you being with us.

GREGORY: Sure.

KEILAR: Great conversation.

Now, the U.S. military hit ISIS, as we mentioned, with this big non- nuclear bomb, the biggest that it has in its arsenal. Did this, the mother of all bombs, really strike a major blow against ISIS? We're going to have a live report from the region after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:25:48] KEILAR: In just one week, President Trump has launched a missile strike in Syria, rerouted the Carl Vinson strike group to the Korean Peninsula and has overseen the deployment in Afghanistan of the largest non-nuclear bomb that the U.S. has ever used in combat.

I want to bring in Congressman Lee Zeldin. He is a Republican from New York. He's a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee. And he's also an Iraq War veteran. And I want to bring in Congressman John Garamendi. He's a California Democrat. He is a member of the Armed Services Committee.

So, Congressman Zeldin, when you look at this, are you seeing just one data point of a larger picture? Is this part of a reassessment of U.S. military strategy? What do you think?

REP. LEE ZELDIN (R), NEW YORK: I would say it's several data points. As you look at Syria, Afghanistan, North Korea, the meeting with China, Russia, all across the map those countries and others a few different principles are showing its way. One is a little bit more strength with regards to America's foreign policy. We use a principle called DIME in our government and in our military. It's Diplomacy Information, Military and Economics. We have these different countries who, over the course of the past few years, having been testing us and watching each other test us. So we're seeing a little bit of that. And as well as additional flexibility given to our military to be able to carry out the missions they believe they need to do with the resources and personnel they need in order to wind.

KEILAR: Congressman Garamendi, do you think this was the right move dropping this very large bomb? It did kill a couple dozen ISIS fighters we were told, destroyed three tunnels that were being used to move material. Was this the right thing to do?

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, there's no doubt that we have a very, very powerful military. We have. It's been built up over the last dozen years or more and it showed its strength in all of these places, certainly in Syria, Afghanistan and off the coast of Korea.

But we have to also be smart. Whether this bomb is a smart thing to do will be seen in the days ahead. We just don't know right now. But we do know that the smart power has been degraded.

And that is something that we've got to pay attention to and I'm sure Mr. Zeldin and I would agree that the 2001 authorization to use force in Afghanistan is now 16 years old. And a lot of things have transpired. And so together with another Republican, Walter Jones, he and I have introduced a resolution that would force the Congress of the United States to insert itself into the issue of war and peace in Afghanistan and also in Syria, where that same authorization use force, the 2001, is being used as the legal justification for the action against ISIS in Syria.

KEILAR: Congressman Zeldin -

GARAMENDI: So we need to look at all of these things.

KEILAR: What is Congress's role? It has been left out of the loop on so much of this for years and years, as Congressman Garamendi points out.

ZELDIN: Well, a few things. I mean Congress has an oversight function. I serve on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. We have the House Armed Services Committee, the Appropriations Committee where funding is provided for our military and for the resources they need. So from an oversight standpoint and an appropriations and legislative standpoint, Congress has been involved.

When President Obama sent the authorization for the use of military force towards the end of his second term, it did result in an interesting debate in the media and the American public and amongst members of Congress because it was attempting to actually limit and actually provide additional restrictions on some of his powers. So now you have a new president, new administration, and, as far as a vision going forward of the use of special operations of the -

KEILAR: Which he did at a time when there was certainly a war weariness among the American public and he was trying to do that as a reassurance for what the limited military operation would be.

Now, if Congress decided not to get involved in that. So how do you see their role now?

GARAMENDI: Well, that's the point. That's - that is, in fact, the problem. Under the Constitution -

[13:30:02] ZELDIN: Yes, it - go ahead, John.

GARAMENDI: Congress has the limited -- has the - has the authority and the only authority to wage war. The issue in Syria, back in 2013, and the President Obama at the time, I think correctly