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CONNECT THE WORLD
Special Edition: Erdogan Claims Victory in Narrow Constitutional Reform Referendum; Palestinian Detainees Performing Largest Hunger Strike in History; Youth Surprise Growing Constituency for Marine Le Pen. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired April 17, 2017 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[11:00:14] RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, PRESIDENT OF TURKEY (through translator): From tomorrow onward, instead of losing time in unnecessary disputes and
discussions, it will be beneficial to focus on the new era and changes. And I invite everyone to respect our nation's decisions.
KEMAL KILICDAROGLU, OPPOSITION PARTY LEADER: Where citizens did their duties
and cast their voices. Any objection to this? None at all. We respect our citizens casting their own votes; however no institution, no
organization should consider themselves above the parliament.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: We live in extraordinary times, and no where is that more true right now than right here in Turkey. That is why I'm here
in the molten political call of everything that is happensing. Just hours after yesterday's history-shaping referendum. I'm Becky Anderson. This is
Connect the World. Let's get started.
One night last summer he almost lost it all. This spring evening he surely stronger than ever.
Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan promising a new era to adoring crowds after winning Sunday's vote, giving him vast new powers to wield
But just as vast, like with Brexit and Trump, the divide its exposing. The areas in green here voting Ivet (ph), yes, to empower Mr. Erdogan in red
against. You can see the huge disconnect between the countryside and the major cities like here, Ankara, home to 5 million voting no. Izmir , 3
million, no. And Istanbul, the biggest by far, 15 million, also, no.
But a victory it certainly seems to be. And the president was flaunting (inaudible) just the last
hour doubling down on wanting capital punishment, something that would disqualify Turkey from joining the EU. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERDOGAN (through translator): We have said this over and over in my speeches, as I said, this will come before the parliament. And if it is
passed from the parliament, I will approve this. I would confirm. Why? Because we do not have the authority to forgive the murders of our martyrs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, we're covering this from every angle for you from Istanbul, just a few hundred kilometers from here that is home to one out
of five every Turks. And from Germany home to the largest amount of Turks outside of Turkey itself.
CNN's Ian Lee is in Istanbul for you and Chris Burns is in Berlin.
Ian, you are in a district in Istanbul which voted no with the highest margin. What's the mood like there?
IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, 83 percent, Becky, voted no in this neighborhood of (inaudible). And I just want to give you
an idea of how just big no is. We have here on the ground in big stickers higher. And hayir means no in Turkish. Also over here at this monument
you have spray painted on the ground hayir, as well.
That's right, people in this neighborhood did not want this referendum to pass. Speaking with them, they are - some are surprised. They actually
thought that the no vote could have held, but others we talked to said that they weren't surprised that the yes vote passed, but they said because
there was voter fraud, and that's something we've been hearing from the main opposition party saying that there was these discrepancies. They want
at least 37 percent of the vote recounted.
So, this is a neighborhood, though, with everyone - the one thing they had in common was they were defiant. They said we may have lost yesterday, but
we're not giving up. We're going to push forward to try to stop what they see as an undemocratic move, Becky.
ANDERSON: Chris. In Berlin, what is the perspective there?
CHRIS BURNS, JOURNALIST: Becky, the reaction from the Europeans is not at all
congratulatory toward Recep Tayyip Erdogan. In fact, they're just literally saying that they are taking note, that's coming from the European
Union and from Germany from German leaders, Angela Merkel and Signar Gabriel. He is her foreign minister and SPD, Social Democrat.
So, this is spanning both the left and right here in Germany saying we take note of this, but they are not congratulating him. They are saying they
expect dialogue between Mr. Erdogan and the other political groups in Turkey.
They would like to see, also, talks between Turkey and the Europeans. So, they're not shutting down Mr. Erdogan. They're not blocking him off, but
they are saying we have to look at this. And what is very important is this, too, is after that OSCE, initial that initial report today saying
that was not a level playing field. There was not transparency in what went on during the campaign and during the vote. They want to see some
kind of movement.
And the Venice commission here, I'm reading now from the statement, and you can put that up on the screen, the Venice commission of the council of
Europe that is - the council of Europe is sort of the watchdog in Europe on human rights, on civil rights, on governance saying that it is voiced
severe concern regarding the process as well as the content of the referendum. And it goes on to say that the
Turkish government now has to answer those concerns.
So, it's turning up the pressure on Mr. Erdogan - Becky.
[11:05:57] ANDRESON: Ian, when the OSCE referred to there not being a level playing field in the run up to this election. Surely they are
speaking to the fact that this was conducted during a state of emergency, many in the no campaign said they simply didn't get an opportunity to get
out and campaign in an atmosphere of a crackdown on the freedom of a crackdown, on the freedom of expression. There are thousands of people
incarcerated and those who have lost their jobs post the purge after the coup.
For those that you speak to who say that they want to see this overturned, that they want to see their no-vote reflected, what do they think they can
do at this point?
LEE: Well, tonight, Becky there's going to be, a rally here just to show support for the no vote and defiance against the president.
But, you know, the one thing that is really interesting, and it goes along with what you were saying, all these things were stacked against them, the
unfair playing field. You had the media coming out and giving far more attention to the yes campaign. You had government resources backing the
yes campaign. Even with all of that, people here are optimistic and then still defiant, because they said even with all that stacked against them,
it was a razor thin margin.
So, they say that even if it was a level playing field, they felt like they would have won this
So, they say going forward, they say momentum is on their side. Even though they lost, they say going into the future, they think things will
shift in their favor, and that's something they're optimistic about. And so, you're going to get rallies like you'll see here in about an hour's
time people still pushing their cause, still promoting it to the people in the surrounding, not just this neighborhood, but all around Turkey,
promoting that. And that's, I think, going to be important for this opposition, an opposition that you really see has come together and
probably ran one of the most effective campaigns that they possibly could in a long time, Becky.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. All right, that's the view out of Istanbul, and in Europe for you today, viewers.
The president only squared away a win by the narrowest of margins. You can see the exact
numbers here, 51 percent to 49 percent. Perhaps punishingly, he didn't claim a win here in Ankara, least of all in this city's central district,
Shankaya (ph), losing in a big way, I have to say.
The mayor of that, Alper Tasdeien here with me now.
And, Alper, do you think the high electoral commission will be fair to your party's request
for a partial recount?
ALPER TASDEIEN, MAYOR OF DISTRICT WHERE ERDOGAN LOST BY 78%: We hope so. Because that is about Turkey's future. And Turkey has a (inaudible)
history, like for 150 years. We want more freedom. We want democracy. And we believe in our republic.
So, if you want to change the regime of a country, that's not the way.
ANDERSON: You say you hope so, but do you think so? Are you optimistic?
TASDEIEN: I want to be optimistic. I want to be optimistic, because the (inaudible) Turkey major cities, 18 of them voted no. And it's a huge
number, including Istanbul and Ankara. Istanbul and Ankara they are governing party ruling party for like 25 years. And this is the first time
in 25 years that the people said no.
ANDERSON: The president will say a win is a win. Do you think he cares what you say on behalf of your constituents?
TASDEIEN: 50 percent said yes and 49 percent said no.
[11:10:05] ANDERSON: That was a win, though, this was a simple yes or no referendum.
TASDEIEN: 49 percent who votes who said no, they are citizens of this country and they're citizens of our president.
ANDERSON: How do you effectively and efficiently run a district like this when your constituents have said they simply do not agree? And we're
talking like an 80/20 split, they simply do not agree with the way this country is being led.
TASDEIEN: We believe in democracy. And we want, really, a democratic country. That's the issue. I mean, that's the point. We all should be
believe in democracy. We want a western country, Turkey. We are the only secular country that the most of the population is Muslim. So, this is the
issue. We want democracy. We want freedom.
And the high commission should - once again that because the ballots, the ballots, unsealed ballots they're accepted.
ANDERSON: Weren't stamped and therefore were not verified is your argument.
Just like in the UK and in the U.S., there was some really interesting parallels here. It was the rural heartland that provided Erdogan his base.
And it was the urban elite that said no. There are those who will argue that the rural heartland has been disenfranchised for years. And it's only
since President Erdogan has come in and provided the sort of economic supercharge for these economies that they have seen the sort of
unprecedented growth that they - they feel supported by this president.
Who is to say - and this exactly what happened with Brexit and with the U.S. election - who is to say that just because the urban elite have been
enfranchised for so long that it now isn't the time, the opportunity for those who have just felt they weren't represented.
There's an argument there, isn't there?
TASDEIEN: Yes, but not just urban elite...
ANDERSON: This is populism at its best.
TASDEIEN: Yes, the rural (inaudible) also votd for no. For example, Hakari (ph), it is the eastern part of Turkey voted for no, (inaudible), it
is eastern part of Turkey voted forno.
ANDERSON: But with respect to - I went down to Konya, 250 kilometers from here, and that is the Anatolian firewall,as it's known.
I mean, you ought to be hard pressed to find anybody there who hadn't voted yes.
TASDEIEN: Among people, there are not any divisions. I mean, all Turkish people, they
are in the streets, you see, there is no problem. The problem is in politics. So, we say we want a fair election. But what is the result?
It's not important. Yes or no? This is not important.
It may be yes, it may be no, but it must be fair.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. With that, we're going to leave leave it there. We thank you very much, indeed, for joining us.
Well, at the start of the show, we told you about how Mr. Erdogan almost lost everything
last summer. A small army faction trying to snatch control of the country in the middle of July. It was a brutal and bloody night.
But the public fought back. Mr. Erdogan clung on just a couple of days after these scenes in what was a worldwide exclusive. He told me he was
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERDOGAN (through translator): Starting from the first declarations, the first announcements we said, well, the Turkish state is intact. The
government is functioning. The president remains in power. There is no reason to worry and these invaders will be gotten rid of as soon as
possible, as quickly as possible. And it took 12 hours.
In 12 hours was it all it took and we got the results we wanted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, how much has changed in less than a year.
Still to come tonight, much more of what is this special coverage for you from Ankara, including a closer look at why international monitors say the
Turkish referendum was neither free nor fair.
Plus, we'll bring you up to speed on the other stories making news around the world. You would expect that from us. Do, stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[11:17:05] MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our hope, and frankly our prayer, is that by marshalling the resources of nations across
the Asian Pacific, not just South Korea and Japan, other allies and China to bring renewed pressure to bear, will achieve our goal of a nuclear-free
Korean peninsula. But the people in North Korea should make no mistake that the United States of America and our allies will see to the security
of this region and see to the security of the people of our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: You're watching CNN. This is a special edition of Connect the World with me
Becky Anderson out of Ankara for you today.
There you just heard U.S. Vice President Mike Pence sending a stern warning to North Korea. He delivered that message while visiting the demilitarized
zone between the north and the south.
He warned North Korea not to test President Donald Trump's resolve and said America's era
of strategic patience is over.
Our Ivan Watson joins us now from Seoul - Ivan.
IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Becky.
He went one step further in other comments here in South Korea. He invoked the recent cruise missile attack against the government air base in Syria.
And the recent air strike against a suspected is complex in eastern Afghanistan, as examples of American strength and resolve and warned North
Korea not to test that resolve.
And that's the first time we have really heard public linkage between these recent uses of U.S. military force and North Korea.
And it is the unpredictability and the defiance of the North Korean regime.u.s. public force and North Korea regime as well as the
unpredictability or a new U.S. administration that have countries here in the regoin very much on edge. When you have a U.S. carrier strike group
moving towards the region.
But Vice President Pence had other messages, as well. He was trying to reaffirm the iron clad alliance, as he described it, between the U.S. and
South Korea. He described that demilitarized zone as a frontier of freedom and even mentioned that his own father had fought in the deadly Korean War
more than 60 years go, was a U.S. veteran from there.
And in a note that would probably be nice to hear from many South Koreans, he pointed out any steps forward by the U.S. would be done in concert with
South Korea, which of course is an integral partner for the U.S. here. It is the host country for some 30,000 U.S. troops, and arguably stands the
most to lose if tensions escalated worse with Seoul, the city I'm in, within artillery distance of the demilitarized zone and North Korean forces
[11:20:02] ANDERSON: Ivan Watson is in Seoul in South Korea for you today. Ivan, thank you.
Well, a flurry of last minute campaigning in France as the first round of voting in the presidential election there is less than a week away.
Two candidates holding rallies this hour - centrist Emmanuel Macron is set to give a speech in Paris. You're looking at live pictures of his rally.
And Francois Fillon has an event in the city of Nice. their rallies comes the Macron camp claims Moscow is trying to influence the election.
CNN Paris correspondent Melissa Bell digging in to those claims. She joins us now. Claims, Melissa, that got a familiar ring to them these days.
What have you found?
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is something that the Macron camp has been saying for many months, Becky, that they're
being targeted by cyberhacking, fake news stories that they believe come from Moscow.
But, once again, today, Emmanuel Macron just before he headed to that rally in (inaudible) in front of several tens of thousands of people, and he's
speaking to them even now spoke on French media about these attacks, about the fact that he was worried that the coming week they were going to
Now, Moscow has denied any involvement. And we have spoken to journalists here in France whose job it is to debunk fake news stories, who tell us
that in fact the fake news stories, that is the ones that have been entirely made up, and they have tended to concern Emmanuel Macron rather
than any of the other candidates, tended to come from the far right inside France rather than Moscow.
But there has been this campaign of disinformation around Emmanuel Macron's campaign ever since he started moving ahead in the polls and looking like
the man who is possibly even still today the best poised to face off Marine Le Pen in the second round.
His fear that there are fake news stories and those cyber attacks will continue, will increase over the course of the next week. And what he
warned when he warned on French television was just be careful of what you hear.
The trouble, Becky, for Emmanuel Macron is that a huge proportion of his potential electorate, this is a man who has never stood before, so it is an
untested electorate ave yet to make up their minds.
Marine Le Pen, the far right candidate, has a very solid constituency of voters who say they're going to vote for her come rain or shine. Emmmanuel
Macron is still trying to convince a lot of people who are yet undecided, and those undecided voters represent a historically huge proportion of the
electorate so close to the first round of voting.
ANDERSON; And Melissa, what are polls suggesting as to how things are stacking up around this incredibly important presidential election?
BELL: It is looking to be probably the most divisive, decisive election, possibly divisive, as
well, over the course of the fifth republic, that is since 1958. For a start, neither of the mainstream parties who have essentially shared power
since 1958 look to be in that second round, that is if you believe the polls.
And what you've seen over the course of the last few days is this last- minute surge in the far last candidate's fortunes, Jean-Luc Melencon which looks to upset things
even further as we head into voting day.
So, yes, France is looking very closely at this election, which will decide not just its own future
possibly along radically different lines, but also the future of Europe, since what we're looking at
today is the result of that surge, two candidates, Marine Le Pen for the far right, Jean-Luc Melenchon for the second - for the far left, who could
make it to that second round. Both of them wanting a referendum on the future of Europe that could open the door for a Frexit.
So, yes, these are very uncertain times with a very unpredictable election that could seriously
transform the fate of the European Union, Becky.
ANDERSON: Extraordinary times in France, too. Melissa, appreciate it, thank you.
Well, hundreds of Palestinians in Israeli prisons are on a mass hunger strike. And they are
vowing to keep it up until their demands are met. Palestinian protesters took to the streets in the West Bank to show solidarity clashing at times.
Now, the prisoners are demanding better living conditions and an end to detentions without
politically trial. Israel denies Palestinian inmates are mistreated and calls the strike politically motivated.
CNN's Oren Liebermann following developments tonight from Jerusalem - Oren.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And this is shaping up to be one of the largest, if not the largest Palestinian mass hunger strike
in years, in decades perhaps even.
And that's because, although it is Palestinian Prisoner's Day and this is - this hunger strike is essentially an annual event, it is much bigger
because of its leader. This year it's being led by Palestinian leader Marwan Barghouti who is one of the few Palestinian leaders who shares
widespread support both in the West Bank and in Gaza. And it's his leadership of this that has galvanized not only his own Fatah Party and
prisoners from that faction, but a number of other factions, as well.
As you pointed out, there are a list of demands here, many of them having to do with living conditions, medical conditions and visitation, some also
demanding the end to administrative detention, a policy where Israel holds prisoners without trial and demanding an end to solitary confinement.
The numbers range here on the low end from 1,100 hunger strikers to 1,600. The Palestinian Prisoner's Club says that number could grow as the hunger
strike spreads. Currently, it's in approximately eight different Israeli prisons.
Barghouti is, as I mentioned, one of the more popular Palestinian leaders that despite the fact that he's serving multiple life sentences for
orchestrating coordinating attacks on Israelis during the second intifada.
He's been in jail since 2002, convicted since 2004 and he's popular despite of even because of that prison sentence. In an op-ed he wrote for The New
York Times, he concluded that op-ed by saying this: "rights are not bestowed by an oppressor, freedom and dignity are universal rights that are
inheren in humanity to be enjoyed by every nation and all human beings. Palestinians will not be an exception. Only ending occupation will end
this injustice and mark the birth of peace."
The Israeli prison service says they have prepared for this hunger strike said they dealt with hunger strikers before. It is a fairly common, I
would say, tool of Palestinian prisoners to demand some sort of service or an end to administrative detention.
They say, they will, if needed, set up a field hospital to deal with hunger strikers. That would allow them to avoid civilian hospitals, which have so
far refused to force feed hunger strikers - Becky.
Oren on the story for you in Jerusalem today.
Well, the latest world news headlines just ahead. Plus, it was a win for Erdogan, but will Turkey's economy see a benefit from political change. A
check of the markets and what it all means for investors, up next.
[11:41:03] ANDERSON: Well, Istanbul's stock market opened higher today on the news
that President Erdogan had won Sunday's referendum. The lira (ph) also saw its biggest intraday gain since the end of January.
The currency has been hit badly by the political uncertainty in Turkey. And many investors see Erdogan's win as a sign of stability.
Well for perspective on what this means for Turkey's economy, we're joined by Mehel Shevastava with the Financial Times.
In Turkey, who recently wrote an article entitled "Erdogan's Second Revolution." Perhaps you'd briefly explain the conceit of that article and
whether you think it is now complete.
MEHUL SRIVASTAVA, FINANCIAL TIMES: Well, Mr. Erdogan certainly thinks it is close to complete. The argument is that he has struggled mightily
against an old secular establishment that held back the ideals of the people that he champions.
And by winning this referendum yesterday, even by a very narrow margin, he has begun the process of uprooting that old secular establishment.
Now, he would say this brings future stability. Investors don't agree entirely, because they see a long struggle ahead.
ANDERSON: Well, that's fascinating because no shock from financial markets, but also no overwhelming rally either. What do you think is
behind the response?
SRIVASTAVA: I mean, this country right now and its economy is battened down by different levels of pressure. One of them was the referendum, and
now that that is over, he relieves some of the pressure. But the state of emergency is likely to be renewed today and that means that this country
will remain under an abnormal phase of its development.
And the state of emergency has made investors jittery. Property rights are at risk. There's all sorts of other problems.
And then below that, again, you have the fundamental problems that Mr. Erdogan did a very good job of addressing in his early reign, but hasn't
done much with in the last five years. You have high current account deficit, you're dependent on foreign money, unemployment is high. Today
the figures were 13 percent. Youth unemployment at 25 percent.
So those structural problems aren't going away any time soon.
ANDERSON: His post-coup crackdown targeting more than 100,000 people has been a drag, as well, as I think we would agree on economic growth.
Let's have a look at 2016. Growth just 2.9 percent. That's way down from the year before, which settled at 6.9 percent. The political situation
clearly having an impact on Turkey's economy.
Is this not, though, an emboldened President Erdogan who will be able to jump start growth once again. He says that this new Turkish-style
presidential system will unlock, as it were, the deadlocks which until now have crippled the economy.
SRIVASTAVA: Well, that's certainly been his promise and the promise of most of his allies. But right now you're looking at an election season
that starts in 2019. And yesterday when he won the referendum, it seemed like he was still in campaign mode. This country can either have a focus
on growth and focus of reforms, which are expensive, takes some time to kick in, or it can focus on the 2019 elections, which fully activate the
benefits of this referendum has brought him.
ANDERSON: His base is the rural heartland. I was down in Konya, which is about 250 kilometers away from here looking at was is one of these
Anatolian tiger economies as they're known recently.
And that is an area which certainly in the past for unprecedented growth over the 15 years for Erdogan leadership, as it were, an AK Party
incentives and support.
But we have clearly seen the urban centers voting no in this referendum. Is President Erdogan in a position to continue to provide incentive and
support to his base to the detriment, if it were, to the open center which have to be part and parcel of any supercharged economy going forward
SRIVASTAVA: It's a huge challenge for him. By losing Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, the three largest urban centers he's presented himself with a
political issue he needs to resolve. The slowing economy, the growing unemployment, it drags down his political ambitions because a promise of
the AK Party has been, you know, supercharged growth, new jobs, better income.
The rural-urban divide, it's shared equally in terms of unemployment. Non- farm employment went up also. So, it's not a question of whether he can deliver for them or them, but can he deliver for the entire country?
[11:35:12] ANDERSON: And the next question is simply this, isn't it? What are we going to see so far as the rhetoric this newly emboldened president
when it comes to Europe, which is incredibly important when it comes to bilateral trade or multi-lateral trade with a big economic bloc, not
(inaudible), of course, we can talk about Russia and various other places.
What we've seen to date in what is it the past 12, 15 hours is a pretty bombastic president. We certainly haven't heard the sort of rhetoric which
one might consider to be described as conciliatory.
SRIVASTAVA: Well, if he's won the election by being very strongly anti- Europe, there's no reason to believe he'll take his foot off the gas.
Now, Turkey's economy is still deeply integrated with the European Union as being part of the custom's union, it's the fifth biggest trading partner
with the European Union, so it's a two-way street.
Now, will he now stop and say, OK, we need to repair these fences that I've pulled down during this referendum. And on the other hand, will the people
in Europe be willing to repair these fences?
People tell us that the accession process in the European Union is all but finished. And like he said, he wants to bring back the death penalty. If
he brings that down, the European Union partnership is over.
Now, Turkey will not be able to reorient itself to an economy that faces Russia, et cetera, as quickly as it - as they think they may be able to
pull it off. So, economically he needs to resolve it, politically he wins if he doesn't.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. It's been a pleasure having you on. Thank you for your excellent analysis.
Live from Turkey, this is Connect the World. Coming up, months of political unrest and a country divided. Up next, how young people feel
about Sunday's results and what it means for their lives.
[11:40:08] ANDERSON: Right, you're watching CNN. This is Connect the World with me, Becky Anderson. Welcome back to what is this special show
from Ankara at what are very special times.
Young people here in Turkey have seen their country go through political turmoil in recent
months and attempted coup last summer caused major chaos and now sweeping changes to the way their country will be run is going to change daily life
for many. Remember, the three largest cities in Turkey voted against the constitutional changes in the referendum vote on Sunday night. And these
cities where were many youngsters come to attend university and find jobs.
Well, I'm joined now by Naz Beren Alp, and Yigitcan Cankaya, both students here in Ankara.
Neither of you are prepared to tell me how you voted, which I'm interested by. And I wonder whether that's - and that's a personal choice, and you're
absolutely free to do that.
Is this, though, because you feel there is an atmosphere of fear?
YIGITCAN CANKAYA, STUDENT: Well, quite frankly, I think that there's an atmosphere of fear. In Turkey, it's been five years now. And the
political issues are quite delicate in Turkish public awareness. And i personally choose to express myself politically as much as I can in my
daily life, as well.
However, at this point, after the referendum, I feel that this situation regarding how to express yourself politically is much more difficult to do.
ANDERSON: Do you feel the same?
NAZ BEREN ALP, STUDENT: I agree with it. And I'm afraid of becoming a target in Turkey, whether the answer is yes or no. In this case, I
wouldn't just slide that question.
ANDERSON: Tell me. Who are the winners and who are the losers out of what has been the slimmest of margins for President Erdogan in this vote?
And I'm talking about the youngsters here.
Well, the losers would be the ones who support rule of law and the division of the powers in Turkey - the legislation, jurisdiction, and the execution.
Since this major change regarding the 18 articles in our constitution is a truly immensely deteriorating change that is being - that's going to be
made until 2019.
So, I think the loser would be democracy, actually.
ALP: I agree with him, the loser would be the separation of powers and the winners will be, of course, the ones who promote democracy, even in this
ANDERSON: Let's look at some of the numbers here. Joblessness in Turkey a growing problem for youngsters. New data from the Turkish statistics
institute puts youth unemployment at 24.5 percent, that's up more than 5 percentage points on last year.
Does that worry you?
CANKAYA: Quite frankly, personally, it does not worry me but it's just because I am a lucky person who gets to live a comfortable life in Turkey.
Though, I can...
ANDERSON: It's not to say it's not affecting others your age.
CANKAYA: Exactly. I can easily put myself in others' shoes, and state that finding a job in
Turkey as a qualified student or graduate is quite hard.
ANDERSON: Does it mean that you very much consider moving away now?
ALP: Before the results, I would definitely say, yes, I am going to move out from Turkey. But after the votes were publicly available to us and
after we see that that there was a very tiny difference between these numbers it gives me some sort of hope.
CANKAYA: I could share the same opinion. Because I can see that the young - yeah, because, the young population seems to be consolidated under no. I
completely see that. And the young population tried to raise an awareness. Why to say no. And giving scientific and legal background.
And as a law student, I am, and also Naz is a law student as well, I can say that this referendum lacked jurisprudence perspective in it.
ANDERSON: This is good. I'm fascinated to hear that despite it feels like, despite your concern about the way that the country may be run going
forward, that you do feel that the opposition has a voice, at least, or at least their vote is obvious at this point.
ANDERSON: Let's talk about one of the things that came out and we that we did a lot on, on this show, and across the international press, Turkey's
post-coup crackdown. More than 130,000 people, of course, were fired or suspended, higher education a major target. Teachers fired in huge
numbers, at least 40,000. I think I'm right in saying 40,000 of them caught up in the purge, 5,000 academics were also affected.
How - how does that make you guy's feel as students. What was the atmosphere in the sort of student body?
CANKAYA: To me, to see to me, to see not be able to enter their own offices in the universities was devastating at first. Second, illegal.
Third and fourth, I can go on to...
ANDERSON: We're not counting.
You're a law student and I'm not.
CANKAYA: And to me, to see how delicate each and everyone's positions that they strived for
for their whole lives and, boom. It's gone. It shows me that nothing is safe regarding a carrier that's built relying on the state. And I can see
that, and I assume that people - young people will try to choose private sector areas to find jobs rather than the state once.
ALP: Even thought we need (inaudible) and I plan to become one and he's becoming one, and in this atmosphere, still, we try so much to find hope.
ANDERSON: It's good to see that we found, and I know this to be true, that this is not an
apathetic apolitical young generation here. But I want to our viewers to get a proper sort of 360 on
this. How much did the referendum play a part in the kind of conversations that you have with your mates on a daily basis?
CANKAYA: Well, quite honestly, it's in Turkey young generations always have been keen on politics because they needed it.
We need to talk about politics because it's in each and every aspect of our lives, it's impossible not to state an opinion even in the smallest thing
in our lives like truly.
ALP: Yes, I agree with him. We always have this political conversations because we almost need to have these conversations.
ANDERSON: Listen, it's been a pleasure having you guys on. Thank you.
CANKAYA: Thank you to you as well.
ANDERSON: For taking time out. It's a little bit chilly out here, so we'll let you go.
CANKAYA: It's Ankara weather.
ANDERSON: It's Ankara weather, exactly. Thank you. Thank you very much indeed.
Live from Turkey, this is Connect the World.
Coming up, international monitors deliver what a scathing verdict, it has to be said, and how Turkey conducted its referendum. We'll have reaction
to the historic vote and what comes next after this.
ANDERSON: A very warm welcome back. And to those of you who are just joining us, this is Connect the World with me, Becky Anderson, out of
Ankara for you in Turkey.
The president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, claiming victory. An international monitoring group says the Sunday referendum that took place here was on a,
quote, unlevel playing field.
Initial report by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe says that the yes campaign dominated media coverage and was given
This is Mr. Erdogan spoke of restoring capital punishment to his supporters in Ankara a short time ago.
Well, to break this down for us, I'm joined by the Ankara director of the German Marshall Fund think tank who has described this vote as, quote, more
important than any election we have ever had.
Ozgur, why is that?
OZGUR UNLUHISAICIKLI, GERMAN MARSHALL FUND: Because elections tell us who will govern the country for a defined period of time. But this referendum
tells us how Turkey will be governed for an undefined period.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. All right. Well, look, the president says Turkish style presidential system is the only way forward to unlock what is this
deadlock which has recently crippled the economy. He says civil politics here don't work under the old style of parliamentary system and he says it
all has just allowed for what happened here back in July, which was an attempted military coup, which this country has a legacy of. Why is he not
UNLUHISAICIKLI: He's not right, because, first of all, Turkey has not - Turkey has never really tried a real parliamentary democracy, first of all.
Our parliamentary democracy was always flawed and actually the authority of the president in our parliamentary democracy was not too little, it was too
much, first of all.
Second, the decisions that have weaken Turkey in front of terrorist organizations and in front of coup attempters were not made by the
parliament, but made by the executers. So, a more centralized executer will not be the answer to our woes.
ANDERSON: Well, a win is a win. It may be by the slimmest of margins, but the unofficial tally at least of course is 51 percent vote in favor of
these constitutional changes as opposed to a 49 percent against.
An article from your think tank wrote even if Mr. Erdogan lost yesterday he could have called
snap elections looking to push down the number of seats the opposition held so he could, quote, "change the constitution in the parliament without the
need to go to a referendum."
Really? How likely was that? I mean, that suggests that you think this was almost inevitable.
UNLUHISAICIKLI: Well, I mean, for two reasons. First of all, if the referendum failed the opposition would have called for early elections and
the government would be compelled to refresh their voter support.
So, they would go to early elections. But early election could play some surprises for the AK Party because as you know there's a 10 percent
threshold in the Turkish political system, in the Turkish election law, and both the Turkish nationalist MHP and the Kurdish nationalist HDP are pretty
close to the threshold. And if either of those parties fall below the threshold, most of their seats will go to the AK Party. And in some cases,
actually, it could mean that the AK Party would gain qualified majority in the parliament.
ANDERSON: And this is president Erdogan's party, a party he founded back in 2002, and a party, of course, given the new rules he can once again
join, which will mean you would have a president and a parliamentary party run by the same person.
The American State Department has just given its reaction in the past couple of minutes. It is broadly welcoming the results of the referendum,
but cautious. It says, quote, "highlighting that international monitors have called out but, quote, observed irregularities on voting day and an
uneven playing field during the difficult campaign period."
Turkey's foreign minister has responded saying the team came to find something wrong. They were looking for it. Will this bother Mr. Erdogan?
UNLUHISAICIKLI: Well, it will not bother him, because I am sure that he was expecting some criticism from the west, but he will be watching out to
see if there will be eventual endorsements of the new system by western leaders and here I think the United States and Germany are very important.
Chancellor Merkel today indicated that she will actually validate the new system in Turkey. And as we are actually now living in a transactional
world with shared interests seem to be more important than shared values, I would not be surprised if the United States
also validates this result.
ANDERSON: Fascinating times. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you very much, indeed.
It was a referendum that showed deep divisions within Turkey. On tonight's Parting Shots then, we take a look at the two very different reactions to
the result. For President Erdogan and his supporters: jubilation. Thousands filled the streets of this city right here, Ankara, beating drums
and singing victory songs in Erdogan's name. But opposition groups have promised to challenge the votes, citing irregularities.
The three biggest cities in this country, Istanbul, Ankara, and Izmir, all rejected the proposal.
Well, that it is for tonight's show.